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/sci/ - Science & Math

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14692009 No.14692009 [Reply] [Original]

Did you know that there is a strong case to be made that mental disorders like autism, schizophrenia, adhd etc are a disease of the gut rather than the brain?
Under the assumption that this is true, there is a cure:

https://youtu.be/5qcJkvh3Zw8

Do you think that conventional medicin will ever figure this out?

>> No.14692016

>>14692009
I don't see how it could possibly happen.

>> No.14692029

>>14692009
The only thing I know is that if "conventional medicine" doesn't find a cure to those diseases, no one else will. And the cure will obviously not be diet-based.

> Time to discard science and seek truth instead.
> You hit the nail on the head. Science can only get you so far.

Nice comments, is this your schizo channel ?

>> No.14692058
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14692058

>>14692029
Play with the assumption that the cure is diet based, and you need multiple interventions to reset your gut ecosystem. How would you get funding to make a clinical trial to test this?

>> No.14692154

>>14692009
you already got btfo
why do you insist on crawling back?

take the L and piss off, pseud wannabe smartass

>> No.14692169
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14692169

>>14692154
I must have missed that. Please BTFO me again.

>> No.14692173

>>14692169
it is obvious why you left academia
you are too much of a smoothbrain and everyone can see that

>> No.14692175

>>14692173
Are you still around? Hows the grant applications going?

>> No.14692196

>>14692058
You can't because if eating bread cured autism then there wouldn't be any autists you autist

>> No.14692200
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14692200

>>14692009
based rouge scientist enjoyer

>> No.14692205

>>14692169
Shouldn't flat earthers be at the flattest part?

>> No.14692209
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14692209

>>14692009
Olestra started all of this. It ruined the guts of everyone who ate it and their faulty gut biome has been passed on to their children.

>> No.14692210

>>14692175
Good, getting lots of money, what about you?

>> No.14692234

>>14692009
>Did you know that there is a strong case to be made that mental disorders like autism, schizophrenia, adhd etc are a disease of the gut rather than the brain?
What should be read:
Did you know that there is a weak case to be made mostly pushed by private companies that poorly defined entities like 'insert random DSM-V iagnoses' are a disease of the gut rather than the brain?
Under the assumption that this is true, there is a 'product that I sell to you for only 500 % charge on price'.

Your threads have been deleted before and I'm in no way disinclined to continue reporting them.

>> No.14692238

>>14692058
Cute of you to shit on Pax when his hypothesis for cognitive decline is much better substantiated than your retardation. Not only that, but, unlike you, he links every single study he quotes from and is in connection with genuine people in the field. He has a far better understanding of cognitive decline than you will ever have.

>> No.14692259

>>14692238
I have nothing against Pax, and i fully support his research. But the meme is hilarious. I think he is on to something, but the question is, why is your brain inflamed in the first place?

>> No.14692279
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14692279

>>14692196
No one advocates eating bread, but rather the removal of all grains

>> No.14692285

>>14692234
And conventional research is not funded by grifters as well?

>> No.14692287

>>14692209
I remember when Olestra first came out, and I was autistic before then.

>> No.14692296

>>14692234
So what is it that the APA is trying to sell me?
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/09/gut-feeling

>> No.14692299

>>14692287
There are tons of other additives that destroys your gut, giving you autism. For instance emulsifiers, flavor enhancers, food colorings etc

>> No.14692309

>>14692285
Whataboutism
>>14692296
>So what is it that the APA is trying to sell me?
More pills? Half the APA's budget comes from pharmaceutical companies.
>There are tons of other additives that destroys your gut,
Also
>That additive?
>No, not that one. Another one.
>That one?
>No, not that either. It's that one.

>> No.14692311

>>14692299
Okay, but my dad is a computer programmer who used to be a trainmaster, and his dad was had a collection of VHS tapes so extensive that he had a card catalog for his tapes that was over two thousand cards. Never met his father, but I helped clean out his barn when I was a kid, and the guy had enough radio equipment to open his own Radio Shack. And that wasn't even the equipment he was using before he died, just the shit he had stored away.
My point is that the autism that flows through my veins is older than most of those additives.

>> No.14692316

>>14692009
>Did you know that there is a strong case to be made that mental disorders like autism, schizophrenia, adhd etc are a disease of the gut rather than the brain?
Slightly poorly worded. Research indicates there's a gut brain axis , where one influences another. If your gut is bad it will influence your brain with various mental health problems, vice versa is true as well if your mental health is bad it will influence your gut health.

>> No.14692318

>>14692311
Don't bother with the discussion. He's either a pariah trying to push a badly-substantiated claim for no reason other than because he's off his meds or he's genuinely trying to sell you something. The fact that he can't pinpoint which additive is responsible for whatever DSM-V diagnosis makes it just sad. It's precisely that kind of rhetorics that makes parents of small children waste thousands on bogus treatments for ADHD or anxiety and what not.

>> No.14692320

>>14692009
>Under the assumption that this is true, there is a cure
We don't give a fuck about your assumptions, provide clear peer reviewed evidence

>> No.14692324

>>14692309
>more pills
Then where is the pill that's FDA approved to treat mental illness by fixing the guy biome? Don't tell me that they've already started advertising a drug that doesn't even exist yet.

>> No.14692330

>>14692318
This is where conventional "sceptical" thinking is wrong. What if it is the combination of all bad shit we eat that kills the gut ecosystem rather than: its the high fructose corn syrup that is the only boogeyman?

>> No.14692357

>>14692259
Pax's hypothesis is that it's inflamed due to sequestered iron (Il-1, IL-6, and TNF-a are the inflammatory signals causing the sequestration (to prevent pathogens from using the nutrients in blood and extracellular fluids for energy homeostasis) and may be released excessively and without presence of pathogenic attack in neurodysfunctional people) giving rise to reactive oxygen species, damaging nearby neurons. However, deferoxamine may not necessarily have such positive effects due to iron chelation. Pax's second hypothesis is that it may promote iron rechanneling by increasing trafficking of iron into mitochondrial biogenesis through the induction of neuronal ATP and EPO, by virtue of which other iron chelators may not work as well. Iron accumulation further, according to Pax, plays a big role in aging through decreasing insulin sensitivity and he uses Ames Dwarf mice as evidence for that.

>> No.14692366

>>14692259
I honestly doubt it since your "hypothesis" is the polar opposite of Pax's

>> No.14692384

>>14692009
It has nothing to do with the gut, and everything to do with parental abuse, social ostracism, and the stigma associated with mental illness.

>> No.14692388

>>14692384
Schizophrenogenic parenting has been debunked over and over again you fucking moron. It's like people on this board live in the 1930s

>> No.14692389

>>14692384
Guess how I know you have multiple """personality disorders""", sexually degenerate urges and tendency to vote for corporate progressivism. :^)

>> No.14692402

>>14692318
Classic symptom of autism is the insistence that everything fit into simple and clear categories with no exceptions or outliers.

>> No.14692408

>>14692388
Yeah, the Refrigerator Mother theory of autism was debunked too. And then for decades girls and women with autism went unnoticed, because you can't look at an autist's mother and notice that she seems... off. That would be going back to the Refrigerator Mother theory, which was debunked. So instead we'll pretend that obviously autistic women are totally normal for forty years, and when their kids turn out to be super mega turbospergs because nobody has the balls to tell Mom to tone down the spergery, well, it's an epidemic and nobody knows where all this autism is coming from.

>> No.14692425

>>14692384
>>14692408
I don't care about your meaningless analogies, this has NOTHING to do with schizophrenia nor would schizophrenia ever go unnoticed. Tribespeople would kill schizophrenics, if they had not been killed by them in mania beforehand.
You are so clueless, it's insane. I hope you never have the displeasure of having to treat schizophrenics yourself without D2-blockers and are just trolling. Nobody on this board is schizophrenic and you'd NEVER want to meet one that is not medicated.

>> No.14692437

>>14692425
I hope your children develop tardive dyskinesia before puberty.

>> No.14692443

>>14692437
I'd rather have my children have Parkinsons than be a threat to society and my family, fucking retard. Why can you only romanticize everything? Go to an asylum right now and have fun with your oh-so-misunderstood brain-damaged chimp that'd kill you for the lulz

>> No.14692442

>>14692384
Do you think abused children get a healthy diet?

>> No.14692448

>>14692442
you should really look into genes and stop wasting your time on meaningless garbage

>> No.14692453

>>14692448
What if the gut microbiome is passed on through the mother to the baby, and its not genetic?

>> No.14692456

>>14692443
Damn, I'd side with my children over the rest of society any day of the week.
>go visit an asylum
Already spent five years in foster care, watching monsters like you chemically scar children for life just to make things a little more manageable for group home staff. You can harp all you want about "muh real schizophrenia" but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of antipsychotic prescriptions aren't even for schizophrenia.

>> No.14692458

>>14692357
Thanks! Good summary, and it might very well be the mechanism.

>> No.14692459

>>14692009
Autism isn't a mental disorder though

>> No.14692467

>>14692453
Doubt it, but may be, who knows? Go on and test it. The neurotransmitter hypothesis (especially dopamine, but also serotonine and glutamate) is currently favored and drugs that act on the respective transmitters have been shown again and again to provide very meaningful results. We even have a large amount of genes that we don't know ANYTHING about besides the fact that they correlate with schizophrenia.
Again, if you want to be a skeptist, at least do some research on the "mainstream" hypotheses first.
>>14692456
This has nothing to do with "children" or "foster care" since schizophrenia usually develops in adolescence. In any case, go on and try to treat MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED schizophrenics without D2-blockers. I'd love to see that. Psychiatry has failed for decades before finding out about dopamine and its effects on schizophrenia. You have no clue what this disease even is.

>> No.14692484

>>14692467
>muh medical diagnosis
Theodore Kaczynski was medically diagnosed as schizophrenic, and he's obviously an autist, not a schizo. The Soviet Union labeled political prisoners as suffering from sluggish schizoy. Psychiatric diagnoses are pre-scientific Aristotelian categories and not a valid basis upon which to inflict permanent irreparable neurological damage via poisoning.

>> No.14692520

>>14692484
Except sluggish "schizophrenia" had nothing to do with actual schizophrenia. Schizoid personality disorder also has nothing to do with schizophrenia. Those are meaningless terms put on people "suspected" of developing schizophrenia during times where having it meant institutionalization (i.e. a heavy load onto nurses) due to the LACK of MEDICATION. Being able to quickly identify a population with a 30% LIKELIHOOD of developing schizophrenia meant a lot back then; now, nothing anymore. Hence why psychiatrists wanted to completely redo the entry in the DSM. Stop with the off-topic shitposting, Kaczynsky also is a terrorist who killed people, no clue what the point is of romanticizing murderers.

Schizophrenia is distinctly identified through various hard means and not mere consultation. I keep on telling you about dopamine yet your rat-sized brain still does not comprehend that obviously too high dopamine levels (also in a very SPECIFIC part of the brain) are in 100% of the cases indicative of SCHIZOPHRENIA or DRUG-INDUCED PSYCHOSIS, and this can be tested. Stop trolling and watch just a single lecture on schizophrenia. I will not reply until then.

>> No.14692528

Ok. Call me when a diet will cure autism. Until then keep fucking your sister and do the usual stupid shit you rednecks do.

>> No.14692531
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14692531

>>14692528
Check out the GAPS diet

>> No.14692558

>>14692520
Even if it were the case that every single new diagnosis of schizophrenia is made in the basis of objective lab results rather than mental status exam and a quick check of the DSM - and it isn't - it would still be morally obligatory to place every psychiatrist who has ever made such a diagnosis without reference to objective lab results into a woodchopper feet first.
>I will not reply
Good. Stop participating in society altogether.

>> No.14692560

>>14692531
Ok.
Now post proofs and testimonies that it works.

>> No.14692563

>>14692558
why do you ban-evade?

>> No.14692565

>>14692563
I've never been banned from this board. Caught a three day ban from /out/ once, and I respected it.

>> No.14692566

>>14692558
Go on and post proof of people "quickly" being diagnosed with schizophrenia. This doesn't happen at all.

>> No.14692575

>>14692566
Even if I had recordings of treatment team meetings, and I don't, it would be unethical to post them. If you think this doesn't happen, you don't work in a government funded community mental health clinic, end of story.

>> No.14692580

>>14692575
So you're just trolling, got it.

>> No.14692581

>>14692560
From this:
https://youtu.be/iy0SvOQB9Ek

To this:
https://youtu.be/3enkBwt_a7U

>> No.14692594

>>14692581
anecdotes prove nothing
and you cant rule out that its some other external factor that "fixed" these cases

>> No.14692611

>>14692009
>>14692169
>>14692581
>>14692531
>>14692058
I highly recommend you read this before http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=32E61EB550EA851382619FCD6A02186B

>> No.14692617

>>14692580
No, I'm a certified peer support specialist, thanks to my experience recovering from PTSD. Haven't worked as one in years, but I have absolutely seen new patients receive a schizophrenia diagnosis within a span of two days. As in, Monday morning meeting, this is a new patient, Wednesday morning meeting, that new patient has been diagnosed with schiophrenia.

>> No.14692618

>>14692594
What would that factor be?

>> No.14692629

>>14692565
>>14692558
>>14692484
>>14692617
and you need to read this http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=CA04D8E8299C33996EF85FBFBABDE2E3

>> No.14692694

>>14692629
When schizophrenia is diagnosed on the basis of chemistry and not the DSM, then maybe you'll have a point.

>> No.14693091

>>14692009
Conventional medicin will never figure it out since the psychyatrists would loose their licence if they prescribed food instead of drugs.

>> No.14693110

>>14693091
Doctors prescribe food all the time, that's what WIC is. A doctor's prescription for nutritious food to prevent birth defects.

>> No.14693213

>>14692618
irrelevant
what is relevant that you cant show a causal connection between diet and mental disease

>> No.14693237

>>14692279
you are arguing with a bunch of dumb fuck high schoolers. They have never watched the animal planet channel, or discovery, or history channel. They have never read plato, or dan brown, or tom clancy or michael crichton, or dostoyevksy, or aristotle, or the vedas, the tao dhammapada etc.

You are dealing with people here who have zero life experience or practical knowledge about anything. They are the equivalent of being dropped off in the forest with some one from NYC who has never even been camping.

These idiots dont know anything if it wasnt in a hs or undergrad textbook and have nothing to cross reference against. They have no idea there are mind control parasites, the "zombie" parasite that attacks nervous system of ants and other insects and drives them to suicide etc.

They are like your general physicians who doesnt jack shit about the drugs he prescribes except what the pharma salesman told him who created the opioid epidemic because purdue salesman told them to prescribe synthetic heroine for headaches.

They have zero understanding of anything and cannot practically apply any knowledge because they dont posses any. They are drones who can only recite propaganda. There couldnt be a more useless endeavor in the world than listening to what these mouth breathers think about anything.

Your video was very interesting. Try this video and see what you think and maybe you can use some of the info for your next vid
https://esotericawakening.com/grounded-to-gaia-electric-beings-of-frequency

also check out sun gazing as a compliment to this video

>> No.14693273
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14693273

>A large-scale genome-wide cross-trait analysis reveals shared genetic architecture between Alzheimer’s disease and gastrointestinal tract disorders

>Nature
>Article
>Open Access
>Published: 18 July 2022

>> No.14693762

>>14692594
>post testimonies
>no not those ones they don’t count because there are no p values and confidence intervals

>> No.14693886

Can you really give someone kale, quiona, and yogurt and say "yes, this rewires a neurodevelopmentally disordered brain"?

Because it looks like someone selling a diet plan to me, what makes this shit any different than weight watchers

>> No.14693968

>>14693886
I haven't watched the video, I generally don't watch videos, so I don't know what makes OP's idea different from weight watchers.

But what do you mean by rewiring, precisely? Because while I can't see a change in diet directly causing the growth or pruning of neural pathways, I could see a change in diet effecting a change in how much of such-and-such neurotransmitter your body produces. I can even see that except it's less direct because gut flora plays a role too.

>> No.14694022

>>14692009
>Did you know that there is a strong case to be made that mental disorders like autism, schizophrenia, adhd etc are a disease of the gut rather than the brain?
Yes.

>Under the assumption that this is true, there is a cure:
Can you summarize so I don't have to sit through a 15 minute video?

>> No.14694069

>>14693968
OP made an assumption that it can cure the ailment by switching diets
It can probably help with symptoms, as autistic people can have a repetitive diet and comorbidities with autism also has diabetes and depression/anxiety
But to say cure is a huge stretch

>> No.14694091

>>14694069
Eh, if the issue is with gut flora I could see a probiotic dietary cure being within the realm of possibility. That obviously wouldn't change the fact that a person spent however many years developing as an autist, but possibly it could "cure" the autism itself.

I don't think that autism has a single cause, or is even really a single condition, so I'm certainly not suggesting this could "cure" all autistic people. But I don't think it's impossible that it could "cure" some autistic people.

>> No.14694992
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14694992

>>14694022
The TLDW:
Data suggests a link between the stomac and the brain.

A dr managed to cure her autistic son with a modified special carbohydrate diet.

The theory of why it works is that an overgrowth of bad bacteria causes un digested food and food aditives to enter the blood by making the gut leeky. This causes mental disease.

The cure is to remove all irritating food, so that the gut can heal, and then introduce bacteria so that the gut ecosystem is restored.

>> No.14695027
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14695027

>>14693886
Not grains but meat and yoghurts.

Its a different mechanism. The food decreases the toxic load and inflamation in your brain, but also heals the gut, which helps in the balance of the production of neurotransmitters.

>> No.14695338

>>14694992
>>14695027
You get lost in the ever same thinking traps. It already starts with the liberal use of the word 'cure' in regards to things that, as of now, haven't even been shown to be real. You can't 'cure' autism or depression because a real biologically-based model of it simply doesn't exist. You simply advocate for people to be put on questionable diets, likely trying to push here a side-business of yours, to solve non-existing issues. It simply doesn't compute in your head or with most people actually, that from: My psych has diagnosed my son with ADHD, it does not follow: My son actually has ADHD nor that ADHD is in any way real. So, the whole thing just breaks apart. Not to speak of the fact that your diets and therapies to cure imaginary problems are a billion dollar industry and that I've personally seen families take up another mortgage or get broke because they just had to try out another therapy, another costly diet etc. because some guy somewhere told them they had a 'disorder' but couldn't tell them what it was nor answer the question if it was actually real.

>> No.14695547
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14695547

>>14695338
Lower degrees of Autism and ADHD is most likely personality traits with certain evolutiinary advantages. But they seem to react extra badly on a damaged gut ecosystem, making them dysfunctional. So instead of the autist inventing new machinery, he starts to sort rocks by different sizes. And the ADHD personality, instead of exploring new hunting grounds, he cant remember where he left his spear.

>> No.14695690

>>14695338
GO THE FUCK AWAY BRAINLET

>The Recent Progress in Animal Models of Depression
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5605906/

>> No.14695693

>>14695027
You uneducated dumb mother fuckers...

You have one chance to tell me why the fuck you are here besides to post Musk photos and push your anti-grain agenda

>> No.14695824

>>14695693
What did your education teach you?

>> No.14697007

>>14695693
>grain simping this hard
the grains arent gonna give you any pussy little simp. Be sure to donate to big drain on twitch you little faggot