/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.14582081]

Has anyone ever stopped and asked WHY being rational is better? Why is being rational better than believing in magick or astrology or heaven?

We all end up dead. What is the cope we tell ourselves to justify the need to be objective and true to reality at all times? What do we get out of it?

[Anonymous No.14582113]

>>14582081
it's not better, nor even achievable. It's a phrase used to shame and therefore control people who just do what they want.

[Anonymous No.14582114]

>>14582081
>Has anyone ever stopped and asked WHY being rational is better?

[Anonymous No.14582128]

>>14582081
I wondered about that until I realized that there is no divide between science and magic. The only argument is born from a power struggle over who gets to control the meaning of those words.

[Anonymous No.14582129]

>>14582081
One of my secret fears is that rationality is actually a coping mechanism that has to do with poor health, that if you are healthy, you are not capable of being rational.

There's no reason that physical health and rationality need to be 1:1

[Anonymous No.14582150]

>>14582081
Because in reality a brick is going to kill you regardless of the magical incantations you chant.

Sure people can make up all kinds of pleasant ad hoc narratives where maybe doing this ritual on Sunday somehow leads to some spurious correlation to a behavior where you avoid more bricks... OR sane people do the efficient thing and avoid or fix places where bricks kill you from the sky.

[Anonymous No.14582151]

>>14582081
the first question you ask is a very good one.. my own work in science began with irrational numbers.. that is, numbers that went on forever; like the square roots of Three and Five.. it was as if they were going backward in time.. only later did my own publications become rational.. perhaps you are a good candidate for the Eleatic Process.. begin with Plato's Timaeus, and also Theaetetus.. then come back here again.. we will remember you.

[Anonymous No.14582157]

>>14582129
>There's no reason that physical health and rationality need to be 1:1
Well... yes, actually, because the more physically fit you are the fewer mental illnesses and other problems you have. Fewer conspiracy theories, less belief in bullshit (Yes, Bullshit is is the technical term - no I am not kidding), and so on.
All the mental regulatory processes are physical ones, and in turn better physical regulation overall and/or circumstances optimal FOR physical health lend themselves to far better mental health on average.

I genuinely cannot fathom why rationality would somehow not be tied to physical health unless one supposed some magical non-physical substance or being evolved to deny reality. Contrary to popular belief denying reality is merely a spandrel of our amazing ability to try and correlate things to understand what's going on.

[Anonymous No.14582166]

>>14582081
So you’re asking for a rationalistic justification for why rationalism exists.

Well, that’s simple. Because they like to do that.

[Anonymous No.14582191]

>>14582081
forthrightness and mutual commitment towards the civil state for me. An eventuality of scarcity and its coordination amongst or hopefully out of. Many of these ideas described are not anti-correlated in their time and place, and each branch backwards into its own knowledge basis. Magi, the philosophers of old carried knowledge of mathematics and science, astrologers comprehended the seasons and moons simply without complex equations, heaven forged inter-tribal relationships to build more complex socieities.

We all end up dead, but we all know we can all make it way worse for ourselves, or way better for ourselves, so i think it wiser to aspire towards a rational thinking

[Anonymous No.14582253]

>>14582150
Are you suggesting that human awareness itself has zero impact on empirical reality? Are you basing your position on the belief that you personally possess the maximum cognitive capability that is possible for a human being to possess?

[Anonymous No.14582262]

>>14582253
Are you really that retarded?

[Anonymous No.14582274]

>>14582081
If you define 'rational' as in 'rational behaviour' as "operating in one's best self-interest", then your question answers itself: astrology and magick would be rational if they worked, if by using astrology you could get ahead in your life - then that would be rational behaviour. However it doesn't so it isn't. Making bets or making life choices based purely on astrology is not operating in your own self-interest.
Let me give you an example of non-scientific but rational behaviour: advertising. Advertisers don't persuade people with rational arguments why their product is the best, they use emotion, status, passion, fear and other "irrational" means. However would we say advertisers are themselves irrational? No. It's perfectly rational to use irrational means if your goal is to maximize customers.
So to answer your question: because they don't work and leave you worse off.

[Anonymous No.14582279]

>>14582262
I'm not retarded enough to assume that the universe is bound by the rules I apply to it based on my understanding of the observations I have made of it and the measurements I have taken of its perceptible components.

[Anonymous No.14582283]

>>14582279
>I'm not retarded enough to assume that the universe is bound by the rules I apply to it based on my understanding of the observations I have made of it and the measurements I have taken of its perceptible components.
What the fuck are you on about?

Is 4chan only bots today or something? Or is there a great NPC invasion?

[Anonymous No.14582287]

what's the rational explanation for placebo effect?

[Anonymous No.14582288]

>>14582287
Look up Operant Conditioning

[Anonymous No.14582289]

>>14582157
>I genuinely cannot fathom why rationality would somehow not be tied to physical health

People who are physically healthy tend to go along with the members of the tribe, that is one of the hallmarks, esp in terms of your "lack of conspiracy theory thinking."

For example, most healthy people in Christian societies were prob. Christian, even tho it is batshit insanity to think (1) sin exists (2) God's son died for your sins, etc. etc.

My general worry is that belief in invisible things (rights, uses, trusts, etc.) is something that humans engage in because of pervasive lack of health, these "abstrsact entities" are NOT a sign of mental well-being.

Or maybe they are, and belief (like, true belief, not 'these are neurological structures we use to coordinate our activity') in abstract entities is something "healthy" people do, that is, rational people who are cpable of saying "well, that is obviously just a neurological structure..." are treated as "not getting it."

[Anonymous No.14582290]

>>14582287
People are stupid

[Anonymous No.14582300]

>>14582289
>esp in terms of your "lack of conspiracy theory thinking."
No, that is not how that works. Psychologists have plenty of studies assessing independent markers of seeing things that aren't there, making spurious inferences, it has nothing at all to do with "going along with others" as you're going on about it.
>My general worry is that belief in invisible things (rights, uses, trusts, etc.) is something that humans engage in because of pervasive lack of health, these "abstrsact entities" are NOT a sign of mental well-being.
The fuck are you even going on about

[Anonymous No.14582304]

>>14582283
Are you having an emotional reaction to my insistence on engaging in dialog instead of flinging insults?

[Anonymous No.14582308]

>>14582289
Not meant for you.
>>14582283
Meant for you.

[Anonymous No.14582311]

>>14582304
>Are you having an emotional reaction to my insistence on engaging in dialog instead of flinging insults?
I would if you were real.
>I'm not retarded enough to assume that the universe is bound by the rules I apply to it based on my understanding of the observations I have made of it and the measurements I have taken of its perceptible components.
>Universe doesn't work based on what you imagine
You in the post prior to that,
>Are you suggesting that human awareness itself has zero impact on empirical reality?
You're disagreeing with yourself. I refuse to believe you're real.

[Anonymous No.14582322]

>>14582308
>>>14582289 (You)
>Not meant for you.

Well...you replied to me...

[Anonymous No.14582323]

>>14582081
Because you'll be ostracized by society and get no pussy unless you keep it to yourself

[Anonymous No.14582358]

>>14582323
>implying society is rational

Society is completely irrational. Strangely this is for rational reasons.
Like using any number of logical fallacies to win an argument against people who can't recognize a logical fallacy. Or being in a position of leadership or authority in society and using your position of power and influence to make everyone dumber, less educated, more prone to being susceptible to your logical fallacies.

>“In an insane world a sane man must appear insane.”
The world does not favor nor appreciate those who appear to be rational or act with rational.

[Anonymous No.14582364]

>>14582081
It has been found that when presented with a problem, trying to rationally solve it results in greater success than praying for a solution or trying to cast a spell or summoning an angel to handle it.

[Anonymous No.14582379]

>>14582364
I kek'd.

[Anonymous No.14582393]

>>14582081
This is why evolution doesn't select for rationality. It's like trying to interface with a computer's 1s and 0s rather than a GUI.

[Anonymous No.14582429]

>>14582322
My oversensitive touchpad replied to you.
I've always had a tendency to define true health as that which does not rely on pharmaceutical or surgical intervention. I cannot say that I have ever encountered a truly healthy person who was of an exclusively rational mindset.

What I have noticed is very hard to articulate, but it seems to be an awareness of an organized hyper-complex functional living universe of which the terrestrial human body is an integral component. All of the "irrational beliefs" are merely attempts to articulate that awareness using inadequate language.

Emulation of deity, chakra alignment, centeredness, etc., are all attempts to describe the awareness. It is why African witch doctors had a higher rate of cure than western medical doctors. A successful healer brings people back into that state of awareness. Beliefs are merely linguistic tools used to accomplish that task.

I'm not able to describe it very well either.

[Anonymous No.14582446]

>>14582364
That is a very good point, however strict rationality can lead easily to defeatism if it does not produce a solution.

[Anonymous No.14582451]

>>14582287
And this; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2760599/

[Anonymous No.14582458]

>>14582129
>rationality is actually a coping mechanism that has to do with poor health

This is an interesting point. Descartes was a sickly child who came up with many of his formative ideas whilst lying in a hospital bed listening to children playing outside. The health of the species is determined by fitness for survival and reproduction. This depends far more upon physical factors than mental. An unfit individual maybe prone to creating abstract worlds to escape from this one.

[Anonymous No.14583218]

>>14582081
Because being rational gives you better aligned your map of reality to the territory of reality. You can be more effective in accomplishing your goals, whatever they are. If your goal is to just be happy, you can optimize for that.
You already don't believe in magic. There's no going back so just work with what you have.

[Anonymous No.14583229]

>>14582081
Rational doesn't mean true
You can rationalize anything
This is the pitfall people often don't see
People who believe in magic or astrology or heaven are rationalizing just as much