/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.14571580]

if you're terrible at math does that automatically make you retarded?

[Anonymous No.14571598]

Yes. Midwits love to deny it but math ability is a much better way to measure intelligence than IQ itself.

[Anonymous No.14571609]

Yes. Math is the ultimate IQ test. It can test from lowest IQ (elementary school math, linear equations etc) up to the highest IQ (algebraic geometry, analytic number theory etc).

[Anonymous No.14571614]

i agree that smart people are generally good at math, but why are extreme mathfags emotionally stunted autists who dont contribute much to anything else?

[Anonymous No.14571617]

>>14571580
Depends. Certain neurological conditions can create conditions where imbalances like that exist. ADHD is a good example, as you can have an extremely high IQ with it and nonetheless have dyscalculia. If that is the case and the condition is treatable (ADHD), practice could see considerable improvement. If the condition is non-treatable (some kinds of autism or something) one has to develop taxing skills to work around which part of the brain is not functioning properly.

That is one of the benefits of a genuine full IQ test, and keep in mind they are for diagnostics primarily not dick measuring. In a lucky case one might have a treatable condition, or in extremely rare cases have such a high IQ as to overcome a developmental issue. That is *extremely* rare, one can find a case study every few decades relevant to that.

[Anonymous No.14571618]

>>14571598
>>14571609
>>14571614
gpt-3 bot responses

[Anonymous No.14571619]

>>14571617
can back up, was a math retard for my elementary middle & early high school years and then pulled head out of my ass and was able to be more successful in STEM once my brain fixed itself

[Anonymous No.14571624]

>>14571619
You may be one of those lucky cases where ADHD improved rapidly with age. For some people this happens, usually medication earlier ensures it happens more (so you get less people stuck with it in adulthood).

If you did have ADHD though be sure in old age to get that looked at in case it is misdiagnosed for dementia. Recently there's been a big issue about that, because of the wrong assumption in elderly care that ADHD is a children's issue. In actual fact cognitive decline in advanced age can bring back the issue and need medication again. "Can" not "necessarily will". Same goes for head trauma.

[Anonymous No.14571625]

>>14571619
i was trying to make the point that math is more of a skill, anyone who can think logically & is reasonably detail oriented can probably get decent at it eventually

[Anonymous No.14571626]

>>14571624
they gave me meds for a year. It made me an insane retard while i was on them but afterwords i turned out very good

[Anonymous No.14571627]

>>14571625
...Yes but my point was regarding people with neurological conditions where that is extremely difficult to impossible depending. Even if you have a self narrative about "just developing the skill" it is also a possibility to have a condition and never know due to mistaken assumptions about what the condition looks like. >>14571626 Case in point you were diagnosed I guess.

Of course no matter what you won't really get better at it if you don't find a way to work to improve. That just goes without saying.

[Anonymous No.14571635]

>>14571618
>you WILL be bad at math
Ok Klaus

[Anonymous No.14571636]

>>14571619
>once my brain fixed itself
how?

[Anonymous No.14571643]

>>14571636
a lot of it i credit to maturing, but i sure as fuck had to do a lot of practice, and get help from my parents doctors and medication

[Anonymous No.14571652]

>>14571643
its honestly a bit hard to tell, there was a point in my life when everything kind of internally trainwrecked at me at once and my personality and mental capabilities and grip on reality went down the shitter, this occurred about halfway through my medication, eventually it got bad enough that they decided to take me off then and thats when i improved dramatically, upon improvement i surpassed my capabilities before i the mental trainwrecking.

[Anonymous No.14571666]

>>14571624
Would taking Ritalin for a long time like, say, 2 years still help with ADHD when you're an adult? I'm from the countryside where medication was looked down upon and I've been struggling to keep my attention my whole life, which was a rather big problem in academia where I was expected to actually read textbooks and retain the information from the presentations (whenever there were no external stimuli to distract myself with, I'd daydream or just think about rather irrelevant things). For some reason, I have this fear of getting into the flow state where I'm focused on something like a book, lecture, etc. I'd often stand up after reading maybe just a paragraph or two and walk around my house. Whenever I finish a chapter, even if the subject fascinates me, I can't even get myself to read further, again I think out of fear of committing time to actually reading it.

[Anonymous No.14571672]

>>14571580
It is very difficult to measure or define intelligence in a quantitively. It is far easier to quantify retained learning.

[Anonymous No.14571676]

>>14571636
Real Meditation, not the pajeet scam artist kind
Destroyed and reforged my ego 30 times

[Anonymous No.14571679]

>>14571666
Well, it may be possible as you would develop better coping skills and strategies with better ability to be aware of what you are doing. By habit these may persist anyway, but the effect certainly would not be as great or as big as early medication in childhood. Your case sounds quite extreme, too, so for you it may be a case where you feel it acts like a miracle drug.

I will not bullshit you though: If you were earlier diagnosed with ADHD, and your parents denied you medication, this was child abuse. You have been denied the potential to be far less reliant on stimulants as an adult out of parental neglect and ignorance. Yes, you can potentially get benefit, but the huge benefit of early medication to that degree is forever lost to you.

Of course, I can't know if that's your issue in fact. Professional would be required in person for evaluation. As far as stimulants go most people I talk to with ADHD greatly prefer extended release, and these are apparently available in generic in the USA for adderall or ritalin. You have options. Higher extended release from more recent products like vyvanse, looking it up, do not seem available in generic (and ouch what a price tag).

I do not have this issue, I just know the internet is full of people with it who overshare (also a symptom of the condition). So all I can give you are general summations of different things I've read over the years.

[Anonymous No.14571683]

>>14571666
>>14571679
Shit I forgot, one other thing I've been told a lot on the professional side: There is a sort of myth about synaptic adaptation because people misinterpret self-report studies of how well patients feel the drugs work for them. That is not in fact what these studies are showing, they are showing as one acclimates to better awareness they notice the effects of their symptoms far more.

I have to mention that because it is probably the #1 top myth of how these drugs work. That does not happen, you just gain new experiences to recontextualize your issues with. People with more memory-related problems quite literally would not have been able to remember how bad things were until on the drug in the first place. It varies quite a lot.

[Anonymous No.14571685]

>>14571580
I really liked learning math by myself but found it meaningless afterwards due to being all false puppycock

[Anonymous No.14571687]

>>14571676
is mindfulness real?

[Anonymous No.14571691]

I'm relatively good with grad level math, but don't ask me to calculate if the change I got at the supermarket was correct, at least not quickly

[Anonymous No.14571701]

>>14571691
I'm the opposite. I can do mental math quickly but I failed algebra twice.

[Anonymous No.14571720]

>>14571701
>I failed algebra twice.
why?

[Anonymous No.14571732]

>>14571625
i'll call this the midwit test. imagine this:

1+1

if you can perceive that the result will be something like 2: you don't suffer from any degree of dyscalculia PLUS congratulations you don't suffer from afantasia i think i just BTFOed the whole elementary educational system and teachers sending kids to phychologists cause they cant do their work lol somebody just gibe me a prize

[Anonymous No.14571735]

>>14571732
Congrats you are in fact a dipshit.

[Anonymous No.14571742]

You think that's bad shit, OP, here's my brief story.

> be me
> grow up in Muslim country but am not Muslim
> forced to learn EVERYTHING in local language, math and science included
> go to college
> college taught everything in english because twinning program with brit and aussie unis
> flunked my math and science classes and had to unlearn everything math and science related in the first 12 years of school life
> wikipedia didn't help much because local language fucked with the scientific names so didn't know what the english equivalents were
> dropped out and started working
> learned english properly on the job and realized how badly the local education system fucked me

That shit was 16 years ago, and today I'm fucking jealous of the new generations who could grasp concepts with the snap of their fingers because sometime in-between, brain drain in the country happened and they finally wised up to teach math and science in english.

Anons, is it too late for my 30+ year old dumbass to pick up math again?

[Anonymous No.14571745]

>>14571679
>>14571683
Thanks! Yeah, I'll go to a neurologist then and try to get a prescription for Vyvanse or some other extended release med. Note that it was not just due to my parents, though, but also my family doctor. As far as I can remember, I've pretty much only ever been prescribed homeopathic stuff that never worked or told to drink tea. When I was about to graduate high school, I had a ton of health issues and specifically sleep issues. I'd sleep less than 3 hours a day for weeks and they, of course, only ever gave me homeopathic non-sense, like "Neurexan", which contains 0.0006g Avena sativa, 0.0000000000006g Coffea arabica (not even kidding, 0.6g*10^(-12)), 0.006 g Passiflora incarnata, 0.00006 g Zincum isovalerianicum.
Only after months of visiting them every week would the doc prescribe me Ritalin, but only 20 5mg instant release tablets. The dosage was definitely too low, but it massively helped me to get shit done. I once did 15mg in a day and it certainly felt like a miracle drug: I suddenly didn't have 9 desktops open at the same time anymore with 10 chrome windows each of which had 40 tabs open. Too bad he wouldn't ever prescribe me that again. In fact, he scolded me for asking, portraying me as a drug addict, telling me how I am the third ever person he prescribed it to (he's 70+), that he only did that so I could finish high school and generally would only prescribe it to insane people that'd demolish everything around them if it weren't for the medication, and a long rant about how terrible it is that every 3rd child in America takes it.

I'm genuinely mad but simultaneously optimistic, since I'm pretty good and quick at math (always have been), all I lack is the attention to read through the textbooks. Even if I currently read through them at a rate of 2 pages a day, I do understand it all.

[Anonymous No.14571746]

>>14571742
What muslim country?

[Anonymous No.14571748]

>>14571746
Malaysia

[Anonymous No.14571751]

>>14571745
I mean I don't know shit about vyvanse second hand or otherwise. I just know it's expensive as fuck, as would a neurologist be. You could get generics way cheaper for adderall and get evaluated at a community or means-tested clinic in the US. I guess it depends on your country. I never read anything about vyvanse so I can't say, nor do I think I know anyone who was ever on it.

Anyway - Your doctor is criminally negligent, fucking retarded, and should be fucking shot. Do not use a doctor, except for a referral, go through a psychiatrist if you are in the USA or similar analogue and then transfer to a doctor willing to fulfill the script after the psychiatrist is fine with the monitoring period. That way a shithead doctor won't boot you to avoid legal liability.

That is if - and it is a big if - you do the proper thing and get an evaluation that uses proper cognitive testing. Through a neurologist that'd be insanely expensive, same through a private psychiatrist or psychometrician, so you probably want a public clinic referral with a psych unit or something. I do not endorse nor condone any shenanigans circumventing the system. Stimulants like these do not help people who do not have ADHD, studies on normal people like me basically show that it makes us focus LESS not better. So you want to avoid that. Just sayin, can't know over the internet.

[Anonymous No.14571752]

>>14571745
Oh but also with extended release you wouldn't have that cyclical rise-crash thing so you'd probably feel more stable on it. If you got extended release (sofar as I've been told that is the status quo now).

[Anonymous No.14571784]

>>14571735
aphantasia isn't real but what is real is your münchausen syndrome

[Anonymous No.14571790]

>>14571784
Sure bud. In imagination land making shit up counts for something.

[Anonymous No.14572155]

what if i suck at math, but can solve complex problems better than my living-calculator friends?

[Anonymous No.14572434]

>>14571624
Recently diagnosed with ADHD here. I'm 19 so I'm worried it might be too late. I've always been good at math and science though, have always been able to pick up the concepts no problem by just listening to the lectures (but 99% of the time I'm not able to focus on them) and in my first year of uni definitely spent more time reviewing/doing psets than I needed to because I couldn't focus (in high school I just didn't do shit and got straight As so I didn't realize it was a problem until now). I'm hesitant to take meds because I also have severe anxiety/ocd (which apparently are common comorbidities) but I'm going to talk to my psychiatrist and see what he thinks. Do you know anything of this?

[Anonymous No.14572532]

>>14571732
Low IQ people literally blank out when you put variables in front of them, they don't even need to have dyscalculia. Like
10 = 2a
Is a crisis for them, let alone systems of linear equations like idk
22 = 4b + 3c
81 = 9c

[Anonymous No.14572651]

>>14572434
I mean I can't tell you what is going to happen to your specific body, or have any special knowledge as to your conditions or anything or their cause. Seriously, in no way whatever could I advise you personally on that score.

All I can say is that, based on what I've heard others with the condition say, it is POSSIBLE for SOME that anxiety and other emotional dysregulation is cured with stimulants. This is probably due to resolving executive functioning problems. Especially as adults, who have lived with these issues, often have learned to cope at a far greater disadvantage. Once executive functioning returns to a normal level, it becomes effortless. Again, to some, I have no idea if that would apply to your case.

You will have to raise those concerns with your doctor. Sofar as I know, and keep in mind I claim no special knowledge, most people start at the lowest dose especially with any concerns of comorbidity like anxiety and go on from there. Comorbidity is also a concern as possibly having autism *and* ADHD is possible, though what happens often instead is one is misdiagnosed for the other. That is also due to emotional dysregulation and attentional issues also effecting the social domain of life, which renders one less capable and easily misdiagnosed.

So does any of that apply to you? I can't know that. Treat what I've mentioned as something to help find out. A good doctor should help set a path for those concerns, say starting at a low slow-release dose of adderall for example (IIRC 5 mg is lowest? I am not a perscriber). Cognitive testing would help narrow diagnosis down, and with improvement to cognition help determine if those issues you have are due to ADHD or separate. Non-stimulant options are also available if, for whatever reason, you are a rare case with no tolerance to any stimulants. Also things any good doctor would probably mention or hand you on 500 pages of "welcome to ADHD now read 500 pages haha no really".

[Professor Owl No.14572701]

>>14571580
Justin Trudeau can't do math, but he can still run a country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et_6kiSQ-ao

[Anonymous No.14572725]

>>14572434
>>14572651
In case it is also not apparent, there are far more things than I can raise in a reasonable text limit. Other comorbidities, non-psychiatric health conditions with psychiatric presentations, the list is fucking endless. Do these apply to most people? No. Does that tell us whether it applies to you? Nope. Literally not even a probability, due to the fact it results in an ecological fallacy.

That is why online "advice" that could claim to inform as to particulars, of an individual, can only be superficial at best as I've tried to make clear. Do you have dietary or nutrient deficiencies? Would these cause psychiatric symptoms for you in particular? No clue. Are ya bullshitting? No clue. Not saying that to be mean, just to highlight my point.

Beyond examples, and the ones given are like 1% or less of the total map of possibilities a doctor would exclude, I can offer you nothing else. Just a hint at further reading, what you may wish to further read or explore, to help you ask your physicians. As you have ADHD, I know a friend of mine with the condition takes notes to the doctor to help roadmap and jot down points. That may help, or maybe it is not an issue for you. You can get a broader spectrum of ADHD by just reading some ADHD communities too, they talk about it a lot. Just keep in mind my warning about internet "advice", someone's personal anecdote doesn't mean shit to your personal situation.

[Anonymous No.14572727]

Picrel sucked at math.

[Anonymous No.14572736]

Not if you are a genius in some other area. For the most part though, if you struggle with basic math, the likelihood is high that you aren't all that sharp.

[Anonymous No.14572751]

>>14571617
>That is *extremely* rare, one can find a case study every few decades relevant to that.
Doubt it's as rare as you suspect. More likely the case studies are rarer than they would be if we didn't fall through the cracks. I'm 37 and I never even had an IQ test until a few months ago.

[Anonymous No.14572753]

Picrel sucked at maths.

[Anonymous No.14572771]

>>14572751
Fair enough, I did not specify the context as thoroughly as needed. I meant to have stated a developmental issue in an extreme, such as very low mathematical ability due to very severe dyscalculia. Or autism evaluation indicating severe social problems that a person overcomes without special aid.

So I meant that in a sort of special snowflake case where you have someone in 3+ SD IQ with problems that would, ordinarily, render someone in the normal range nonfunctional or extremely bad off in some domain. Hence the hyperbole. I just phrased it running off too many assumptions about how it came off.

[Anonymous No.14572814]

>>14572771
>autism evaluation indicating severe social problems that a person overcomes without special aid
gronk
>3+ SD IQ
I figure 20 years of drinking and drugs probably cost me at least one, but without a baseline for comparison that's obviously just conjecture.

[Anonymous No.14572833]

>>14572701
Politics is brainlet tier. Just take a look at pol
t. has a masters in political science. Going back for an engineering degree. I can't stand politics

[Anonymous No.14572857]

Shakespeare and Tolstoy. That is all.

[Anonymous No.14572863]

>>14572833
Might I suggest something like actuarial science or applied trades? Perhaps you have a gripping desire for engineering, but career or money wise grabbing some in-demand "push button on machine watch machine do thing" high paying job would help pay for all that if you really wanted it.

Just saying, over the years I've read a looooot of engineers bemoan being tricked into majoring in engineering. For all kinds of reasons. I assume you know and about the job prospects and all that, but "less physical" trade labor is quite lucrative without the later life crippling too.

[Anonymous No.14572875]

>>14572863
Engineering fascinates the shit out of me

[Anonymous No.14572881]

>>14572875
Ah, well, live your dreams man. Can't say I've had the luck of being driven by something that way.

[Anonymous No.14572892]

>>14572881
Thanks man. You never know when you're going to find your thing, never settle

[Anonymous No.14572914]

>>14571619
>successful in STEM
What specifically?

[Anonymous No.14572923]

>>14572914
Gender studies

[Anonymous No.14572939]

>>14572725
Thanks anon good advice. I've been talking to my psychiatrist about the anxiety for a while (2 years now) so he should have a good understanding of the situation and for about 9 months have been using CBD oil to cope with that pretty well. I don't think it's autism though. As much as I do have autistic interests (math, physics, programming etc) I don't come across as autistic to people generally. Sometimes people might describe me as 'weird' but I think that's just a personality thing. Hopefully I can get this sorted out

[Anonymous No.14574127]

>>14571580
yes unironically

[Anonymous No.14574159]

>>14571580
So long as you're smart enough to find a way to make money that doesn't require mathematics it means you aren't retarded.
Being fixated on lacking a particular skill (e.g., you're bad at math and you make a thread about it) does sound a little retarded. Just try to get better or focus on something else.

[Anonymous No.14574162]

>>14574159
>So long as you're smart enough to find a way to make money that doesn't require mathematics it means you aren't retarded.
Onlyfans?

[Anonymous No.14574241]

IQ only matters to you because you’ve been psychologically conditioned to give it value
So just about every stem moron here has been fooled by psychology
There’s also something called EQ which is where really most of 4chan suffers, and it’s reflected in the poor social capabilities and constant bitching about this lack
Instead as coping mechanism there is a dick measuring contest over IQ however the lack of understanding of being manipulated doesn’t point to a very high IQ either
Math is a skill learned with practice
Just about anyone can go through the courses and complete a degree that has it
It will of course be more difficult for some and also the lower bell curve will top out more quickly at some level and not be able to move forward

But never forget this: you’re manipulated successfully by people who’s math strength is statistics
Bye!

[Anonymous No.14574254]

>>14571580
In a way. We're all retarded one way or another. I have a psychological trauma preventing me from studying computer languages (I only recently realized what could be the reason of that psychological block) and I never felt inclined towards musical instruments even though I like music very much. And as a sportsman I am hopeless, because I get tired easily and like to question everything, so that useless activity doesn't motivate me much, and that last example is here just to demonstrate to all those cryptocommies that these differences are pretty often genetic, they cannot all be explained by the nurture.

[Anonymous No.14574255]

>>14574241
What an infantile and moronic post. EQ is not a meaningful thing. It does not measure any kind of emotional maturity or social skill but merely the most primitive and undifferentiated level of unquestioning social conformity. In the EQ test you're supposed to dismiss the natural complexity and ambiguity of social situations and only to think of what would the dumb author expect you to answer. If you pride yourself with allegedly recognizing manipulation, then you cannot take EQ serious at all. But you're just a coping brainlet who wants to keep up the factually incorrect myth that intelligent people had to be socially deficient.

[Anonymous No.14574278]

>>14574162
Sure, why not?
But only if you have the foresight to understand that your popularity on OnlyFans can last a few years at best, and so you should invest the money you make in whatever seems more profitable at the moment (so maybe government bonds right now).
If you blow all your money on a decadent, luxurious lifestyle only to end up poor in two or three years then you are a retard.