What if our consciousness isn't our brain?

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What if our consciousness isn't our brain? Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:30:21 2022 No.14543614 [Reply] [Original]

It's arrogantly foolish to assume that all of our awareness, mind, spirit and consciousness come from solely the fleshy brain

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:34:44 2022 No.14543630 >>14543614 it's also arrogant to assume our consciousness comes from some special unobserved place, maybe even moreso.

Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:34:55 2022 No.14543631
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>>14543614
What if NPCs stopped trying to use the question of consciousness to promote their retarded worldview, and simply accepted that we don't have any idea how or why it happens?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:35:11 2022 No.14543632 You are talking to people who have literally in another thread defined "physical" as meaning "obeys the laws of physics". Please stop, it's a timesink.

Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:37:19 2022 No.14543638

>>14543630
It's not. You have to relinquish yourself completely into existence itself, notions of your character being special or permanent will be obliterated. Heaven IMO, literally disproven. Beyond what even Atheists say about the existence of heaven, like, proof almost that it is impossible.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:38:48 2022 No.14543642 >>14543638 you're just saying pseud words. rephrase or take meds.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:42:32 2022 No.14543647 >>14543642 Dude those aren't even complicated words... You have to surrender everything about you, all sense of control, and understand and accept that every single thing that is you is finite and will cease to exist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:43:40 2022 No.14543648 >>14543647 ok, done! now how does that have anything to do with OP statement? this is what i mean when i say pseud words.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:44:16 2022 No.14543651 File: 136 KB, 640x798, Di8C_J3XgAE-9Zp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543631 because of that feeling of profoundity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9MvdMqKvpU hoop that never ends type stuff

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:46:00 2022 No.14543656 >>14543614 What if your mother's vagina is where your consciousness lies, outside of your brain and connected to her vagina.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:46:16 2022 No.14543658 >>14543632 that's true. Maybe you have confused physical with material.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:47:39 2022 No.14543660 >>14543648 Responding to someone claiming ideas like what the OP is skirting around requires arrogance.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:49:02 2022 No.14543663 >>14543660 or just boredom

Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:50:15 2022 No.14543666
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>>14543630
>it's also arrogant to assume our consciousness comes from some special unobserved place, maybe even moreso.
umm anon, about that... stop being such an npc and wake up

Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:50:52 2022 No.14543669

>>14543651
>because of that feeling of profoundity
I don't imagine the standard reductionist shart about how it's just a bunch of neurons rubbing together until consciousness "emerges" feels profound, and yet people will die on that hill. Either way, don't care; didn't ask. I'm just saying you need to stop.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:52:45 2022 No.14543672 File: 271 KB, 932x742, 3523432343.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543666 based. NPCs will never understand

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:53:24 2022 No.14543673 File: 110 KB, 900x675, 1_d0PmgmyRz4L-LFbJPcCCbw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543669 nice digits

Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:57:36 2022 No.14543680
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>>14543614
Holy fuck the amount of angry materialists in here, this shock me to see such an adamant view of everything mental being the brain, I tell you, it's not a science thing, it's a fetish

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 19:59:37 2022 No.14543687 >>14543680 Based retard. It's 100% a fetish. Somekinda variation on the humiliation fetish, a form of cope in a deeply demoralized society.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 20:00:24 2022 No.14543690 File: 3.98 MB, 1190x1782, transfig.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543672 blind among the blind here

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 20:01:35 2022 No.14543694 File: 25 KB, 833x349, PART 2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543630

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 20:05:00 2022 No.14543704 File: 66 KB, 1655x263, DNA-Transduction-Montagnier.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543680 what sort of electromagnetic signals is the DNA molecule attuned with?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 20:06:02 2022 No.14543706 File: 129 KB, 786x691, what-is-dna.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543704

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 20:43:38 2022 No.14543780 >>14543630 Retard

>>	bodhi Sat Jun 4 21:05:41 2022 No.14543837 File: 2.28 MB, 1278x720, Awakened.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543706 >>14543704 based DNA fractal antennae poster

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 14:35:53 2022 No.14545726 File: 502 KB, 1265x411, Tonoscope-sand-letters.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543837 Good day Bodhi, May Dharma shine brightly upon you

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 14:55:11 2022 No.14545767 >>14543630 to allow the possibility, which goes against everything that left-brain-centered /sci/-NPC believe, is the perfect opposite of assumption. assumption is NOT allowing fundamentally different ideas.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 15:48:27 2022 No.14545908 >>14543614 It doesn't matter what your own consciousness is. Just start being. Identify with your consciousness, rather than your thoughts and senses.

Anonymous Sun Jun 5 16:03:26 2022 No.14545946

>arrogantly foolish
Why? Our nervous system keeps working even without our consciousness. It's not very smart, but it can think and learn and control the body. Thinking doesn't inherently require an external processor with a magical observer sitting in it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 17:31:14 2022 No.14546189 >>14543630 your average "philosophy is meaningless garbage" poster, everybody

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 17:43:42 2022 No.14546229 >>14546189 philosophy is meaningless garbage

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 18:21:39 2022 No.14546335 >>14543638 Just because you're neither special nor permanent, doesn't mean you aren't just a neurological/nervous system insulated by a body

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 18:23:54 2022 No.14546345 >>14546335 >t. clump of cells

Anonymous Sun Jun 5 18:28:24 2022 No.14546361

>>14546335
Of course, because that is how living people are represented in visual, tactile (etc) terms.

Everything will eventually break into something non-substantial if you keep attempting to dig down into matter... Sheer math in particular tends to be a common end-point for substances. Math as a physical substance? I don't think that's a good classification...

>>	bodhi Sun Jun 5 20:36:06 2022 No.14546687 File: 122 KB, 800x1040, Aum-Mani-Padme-Hum-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14545726 blessings fren, namaste

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 20:42:18 2022 No.14546700 File: 32 KB, 582x431, every time.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543651 Of course it's going to be a woman who plays with the children of a random grizzly bear

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 20:50:34 2022 No.14546712 >>14543614 It's arrogantly foolish to assume the existence pf a supernatural "divine spark" you have no evidence for and no way to demonstrate. _You're_ the one who can't cope with being made of a bunch of atoms and nothing more.

Anonymous Sun Jun 5 23:21:13 2022 No.14547091

It's obvious what this is. We are all so caught up in our little character that we can't see it, and our monkey tier instincts don't help.

Your character is going to die. Every part of it. Do you understand what that entails? Imagine for a second you were actually another person before being born. Remember being that person? Remember anything about their life, loves, experiences? They are strangers to you. And that is how gone this character will be.

And THIS. All of this. Just spend the 5 minutes it takes to realize logically that nothing could ever possibly be actual material.

Anonymous Sun Jun 5 23:37:12 2022 No.14547119
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>>14543614
let's be open minded... where does it come from then? realm of consciousness? world of forms? is it a unique substance? how would you prove any of these? the phenomena of conciseness isn't a proof of anything. just because you can see men twerking in your head doesn't mean there is a dimension of consciousness. you need concrete proof for the core claims of these theories

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 00:01:57 2022 No.14547148

>>14543614
The brain doesn't behave like a receiver. It clearly has electrochemical networks that produce content rather than being a passive consumer of external signals.
Also, if you screw with a receiver type device like a television set you can get it to warp the signal, but you won't get it to completely rewrite the signal to where the plot of the show is altered and continues down some totally different narrative path from that point on persisting into subsequent episodes.
Psychoactive compounds aren't limited to just warping a signal a bit like on a television set. Instead, they do things more like the latter description with radically novel experiences produced that are strongly divergent from normal experiences or mental narratives.
And that aside, people with brain trauma or disease don't merely behave like a damaged receiver with the signal coming through with static. Instead, they become crippled by the loss of cognitive functions. If they were signals transmitting to receivers they wouldn't experience anxiety or distress from brain damage since they would exist as untouched signals still with the brains merely having been a place to transmit to. But instead it's the opposite and they progressively lose their mental faculties and experience breaking down rather than being pure and untouched signals watching their old target husk disintegrate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 00:04:47 2022 No.14547152 File: 346 KB, 637x684, ayyy-lmao.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14546700 She is family. Work for forest, Forest works for you. Not all forget the olde ways

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 01:03:56 2022 No.14547241 >>14543614 Interesting image

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 02:37:39 2022 No.14547414 >>14547241 What do you find interesting personally?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 02:48:13 2022 No.14547434 >>14547119 Science needs to make peace with the fact that there will never be concrete proof for certain phenomena

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 02:50:47 2022 No.14547437 >>14543614 Got a more plausible explanation?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 03:09:29 2022 No.14547455 File: 109 KB, 486x492, sab.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What if our brain has its own consciousness?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 04:01:35 2022 No.14547536 >>14546189 philosophy is meaningless garbage

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 04:08:32 2022 No.14547546 >>14547455 You're its favorite eye. Its source of light. Its only way to see the colors of the world. It loves you. It will never let you go. Don't even try to escape.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 08:26:28 2022 No.14548021 >>14543614 No, its ability to do basic observations. And I bet you would refuse to be hit with the head with a heavy object. instinctively you don't believe your own faggotry.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 09:28:05 2022 No.14548100

thou art that
/thread
Seriously you need to smoke drugs once in a while these things will reveal themselves to you. Stop being a nigger. The limits of your human body and the rest of the universe are an illusion. Your a fool if you think the limits of your consciousness and everyone elses isn't exactly the same.

"We don't know what consciousness is" has stunted the evolution of language to describe higher states. Why? Because every time we get near the subject we get sucked into the fucking black hole of "what am I?"

If you're smart enough to be asking these questions then seriously I suggest you spend the time. Take a year or two to delve into questions at the bottom of things, explore yourself and take drugs. Because otherwise these questions get buried in "I won't think about it" and you live your life thinking nobody knows the answer to any of it. We need people awake, not compliant.

bodhi Mon Jun 6 09:29:38 2022 No.14548104

>>14548021
I never understood why retards say this. WTF is this even supposed to mean? I know my shit isnt made in my asshole but that doesnt mean I am fine with someone sewing it closed. I know light isnt produced in my eye but it doesnt mean I am fine with having it poked out.

This is the stupidest shit imaginable someone can say. You should be ashamed of how stupid you are

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 09:32:01 2022 No.14548107 >>14547148 >b-b-but it's not literally like a TV receiver And the kicker is that OP never mentioned receivers. The final and ultimate state of the automated Pavlovian dronebrain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 09:33:28 2022 No.14548112 >>14547119 Where is the proof of your "scientific" dogma? He doesn't sound like he's insisting on any particular take. You, on the other hand...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 09:42:16 2022 No.14548128 >>14548021 Fool you are, the heavy object is as fake as me as fake as my head and as fake as the agony or end of my character that would accompany it.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 11:34:58 2022 No.14548376

>>14547434
science doesn't claim to be absolute truth, it's best available explanation to natural phenomena. even if scientists discover something that's an absolute truth like for example conservation of energy, it's impossible to prove it because of induction. things like problem of induction and incompleteness are at the core of science, that's why everything in science is a theory.
things aren't either absolutely true or absolutely false, scientific truths are true given limited data. as more data is acquired theories are updated and they become more true
>>14548112
>shifting the goalpost
science is the best method of acquiring knowledge about the world because science provides better predictions than anything else
>He doesn't sound like he's insisting on any particular take.
those are examples of "consciousness is outside of the brain" theories. i am just saying that if you claim that there is a realm of consciousness you have to prove or show evidence that said realm exists, saying consciousness exists therefore said realm exists isn't valid

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 11:39:58 2022 No.14548397

>>14548376
Consciousness isn't another realm, it's the ONLY realm. Don't you get it? You, your entire character, your brain, your birth, your death, the Alzheimers that slowly chips away at your being late in life.

These are all things within it.

There is nothing else but this. What makes you not believe this to be the case?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 11:42:37 2022 No.14548404

>>14548376
>science is the best method of hurrrrr durrrrrr
That's just more recycled pop-soi dogma, but I'm still not seeing any evidence of your retarded physicalist reductionism explaining consciousness. Sorry.

>if you claim that there is a realm of consciousness you have to prove or show evidence that said realm exists
No, I don't, but the only thing relevant right now is your hilarious and pathetic hypocrisy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 11:43:59 2022 No.14548412 >>14543614 >solely the fleshy brain Sure. All those glands outside of brain matter.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 11:45:53 2022 No.14548419 >>14548397 >There is nothing else but this. What makes you not believe this to be the case? Shared observation of the physical world, my pseudo-deep friend.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 11:50:38 2022 No.14548439 >>14548419 What does this prove to you? Your character, the object you observe, and the other character who agrees with you that the object is there, are all appearances in it....... Do you get it?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:21:58 2022 No.14548522
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>>14548439
i et that "deepities" sound good to you because it lets you land college freshman pussy.
Meanwhile, the real world and its content seem to keep existing even when unobserved.
So, Twilight Zonce scenarios aside, "Consciousness isn't another realm, it's the ONLY realm." is utter nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:22:59 2022 No.14548525 >>14548522 80 IQ take. Doesn't look like you're capable of grasping what he's even saying.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:24:06 2022 No.14548527 >>14543666 >>14543672 >>14543690 Totally not arrogant

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:24:27 2022 No.14548528 >>14548525 Oh I grasp it. It's just bullshit. Did the sun work before there was any consciousness to observe it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:25:47 2022 No.14548533 >>14548528 >I grasp it. Then why are your responses incongruent? >Did the sun work before there was any consciousness to observe it? See?

>>	bodhi Mon Jun 6 12:25:49 2022 No.14548535 >>14548522 >the real world and its content seem to keep existing even when unobserved. How the fuck would you possibly be able to know this? You are a stone cold retard >>14546838

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:25:49 2022 No.14548536 File: 100 KB, 785x731, k0IGUXx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543632 >NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DEFINE WORDS TO BE WHAT THEY MEAN

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:27:04 2022 No.14548538 >>14543638 To claim that your delusions of profundity are real is arrogant.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:28:28 2022 No.14548542 >>14548536 NTA but you're apparently too fucking retarded to see the circularity of such a definition.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:30:21 2022 No.14548547

>>14548522
Yes if your character walks out of the room and leaves the kettle on, the water will boil. It is all appearances within consciousness.

The only problem is the bastardization of the word consciousness, since a person will only "get" what it actually is when their mind stops processing the instinctual self-other view of the world. Then you will know that it isn't a substance or entity that sits inside your brain, but a sheer blank canvas in which all things appear.

What does a thought become when it stops happening?... And then what is the substance of the thing that observed the thought when ALL objects of awareness are removed? Senses, thoughts, emotions, every 'thing' removed.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:34:52 2022 No.14548555

>>14548528
Concepts of before and after revolve around the passage of time, which is not only objective numerically, but experienced in the qualitative sense. Outside of the qualitative passage of time, all events are instant. I can tell you that I have had two surgeries in my life where I was put under, and all events when my character ceased to """be conscious""" (as it would be considered medically) were immediate...

For the surgeons who were aware, the passage of time was experienced and events happened in a linear fashion... If there is NOBODY to experience time qualitatively, then the passage of time as we imagine it does not make sense anymore.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:35:42 2022 No.14548556 >>14546189 Philosopher here. Philosophy is meaningless garbage.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:38:43 2022 No.14548561 >>14546361 Math doesn't exist except as physical substance in the brains of mathematicians, ink on paper, and electrons in computers. You're treating an abstraction as something real.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:41:32 2022 No.14548568

>>14548561
Math "is". An idea "is". Ink "is. An electron "is". A brain "is". A mathematician "is".

There is only one is-ness. There is not a separate pocket of "is-ness" for abstract ideas and another for material. It is all the same. Material and thoughts are made of the same. Ideas and atoms are made of the same.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:48:42 2022 No.14548580 >>14548533 >why are your responses incongruent? They aren't. Show me where I'm wrong. >>14548533 >See? I see the sun is obviously exists in some real besides "the realm of consciousness".

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:50:31 2022 No.14548584 >>14548580 >They aren't. They are. You demonstrate your low IQ and lack of understanding every time you post.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:50:48 2022 No.14548586 >>14548547 >It is all appearances within consciousness. It's just fucking not. The kettle would still exist if I dropped dead in the next room. Please tell me this is a containment thread for philosophy-tards..

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:52:08 2022 No.14548587 >>14548586 >It's just fucking not. The kettle would still exist if I dropped dead in the next room. Literally 80 IQ. LOL. This is some funny stuff.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:53:57 2022 No.14548590 >>14543614 How many times are we going to have this thread? If I snip your memory, you're no longer conscious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:55:04 2022 No.14548591 >>14548590 >If I snip your memory, you're no longer conscious 75 IQ.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:56:28 2022 No.14548593

>>14548586
You and the kettle are both appearances inside it.

Consciousness is not a thing and this will help you understand: Keep removing things you are aware of. Any thing at all, any sense, any thought, any thing you could possibly be aware of, go ahead and remove it... As you do so, you will notice that sound goes, you remain, touch could go, you remain... But keep going until every single thing is removed, and what is left?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 12:57:55 2022 No.14548597 >>14548591 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFoUvF9PiWo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Wearing

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:00:00 2022 No.14548602 >>14548597 What are you trying to argue? He's clearly still conscious even from the smoothbrain normie perspective.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:05:28 2022 No.14548612 >>14548590 Prove it. If I break a TV Mork goes away. Where Mork?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:05:52 2022 No.14548613 >>14548602 What do you define as being conscious?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:06:45 2022 No.14548615 File: 32 KB, 600x668, 5324244.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548613 >What do you define as being conscious? Oh, here we go with THAT shit again. lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:07:06 2022 No.14548616 >>14548593 The person, the pattern of their responses to stimuli given a previous state. The brain is a neural network that encodes that pattern and stores that state.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:07:28 2022 No.14548617 >>14548612 On data stored elsewhere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:13:40 2022 No.14548626 >>14548617 I break brain and I go away. Where I? Prove why different.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:13:47 2022 No.14548627 >>14548616 First person view, find what is left at the end of the line from your perspective.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:16:44 2022 No.14548634

>>14548627
I exist in an aesthetic state when I'm not conscious. If you're not in one location and point in time, your pattern cannot be said to be anywhere or anywhen any more than the number seven can. When I'm not conscious I am everywhere and doing everything. You're an idea that a monkey is acting out.
>no no you're supposed to say that if you're not conscious then you don't exist

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:16:50 2022 No.14548636 >>14548626 If brain denature, recipe you is wherever mixture is made.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:20:13 2022 No.14548639

>>14543614
It's arrogantly foolish to assume that you can assume or be arrogant.
Cogito ergo sum, I'm thinking therefore I am.
That's the closest you'll ever get to any true knowledge. Everything else is just assumptions of assumptions of assumptions...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:21:24 2022 No.14548642 >>14548634 It's a lot simpler than this, it's like you're trying to logic in something over what is self evident. What is left when all objects are removed?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:25:16 2022 No.14548648
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>>14543614
Tripolartiy. Human artificial intelligence. We are being programmed, brainwashed by tv, with memes. Inversion principle. Carbon is 6, 6 components of storytelling, science, philosophy, art, music, religion, imagination. Earth is a brain. The Schumann resonance the membrane, the firmament. What happens inside the human mind? Imagination. Storytelling. 6 human senses. And then there was the word. Bill hicks it's all vibration experiencing itself subjectively through storytelling. Tripolar man. Maybe even quad polar. Binary is 1 and 0. Break the logic when two become one. 2 and 4. You have to see? It's the meme. Inverted. Wewe. Hidden in plain sight the light so bright once its seen in man will ignite a flare of solar might.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:27:27 2022 No.14548653 File: 139 KB, 700x700, 1611360396955.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548648 It's all here on 4 chan. Meme magic. Pepe made trump. 4 chan made trump. Incantation. One of you sees. I am you. You are me. Us are we.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:28:55 2022 No.14548655 File: 365 KB, 720x1089, 20220605_205808.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548653

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:29:54 2022 No.14548658 >>14547091 >Just spend the 5 minutes it takes to realize logically that nothing could ever possibly be actual material. Schizo.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:33:37 2022 No.14548664
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>>14548655
Dubs dont lie. You know this. It's not the spoon you have to bend because the spoon is real. You are not. Bend your mind. Dont try to bend your mind because that's impossible. Instead understand you are not real and it is you that bends. The matrix is all around. You see it everywhere. Lead to gold. Make the mundane profound. The stone. At the center. Neos journey is backward. Inversion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:34:47 2022 No.14548666 >>14547091 Your story character.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:34:59 2022 No.14548669 >>14548397 >Consciousness isn't another realm, it's the ONLY realm. Proof? Why are the only successful theories based on physical things existing? What predictions does your hypothesis even make?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:37:24 2022 No.14548674 >>14548666 Trips of truth. THE TRUTH. the word. Everything. All. 2001 a space odyssey hal. No. Human artificial intelligence. Hai. See? The matrix. Science, philosophy, art, music, religion, imagination. 6 core components of the human experience.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:40:03 2022 No.14548677 >>14548674 The bald guy "how do you read the matrix?, you just get it after awhile." Get it you get it. The training sim neo does. That's coming out not going in. The self dies first and is reborn. Revelation backward. Inverted.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:43:02 2022 No.14548688 >>14548542 It's not circular at all. Where do you think the laws of physics come from?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:43:07 2022 No.14548689

>>14548677
Look upon the numbers and at least consider what I say. You know the way you look at it everyday day. Free your mind and open your heart like a star child and you will see. The matrix. The bible in modern context. The new book. Mans book. Today is the day of man. 662022. 2 and 4. 110020011. Human binary. Or quadrary. I'm just a dumbass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:45:38 2022 No.14548694 >>14548555 If everyone falls asleep at the same time, they will still wake up to the sun rising and everything else continuing regardless of their lack of observation. You're braindead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:46:28 2022 No.14548699 >>14543614 Consciousness causes collapse of the wavefunction Consciousness is fundamental, is not something that is merely in our brains

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:46:48 2022 No.14548701

>>14548689
Duality of man is heart and mind. Triality of man is when they are one. Left and right hemispheres combined. It can be explain in any modern context. Science, religion, philosophy, art, music, imagination. Do pemdas backward. Parentheses are first. The inside. The self. You see?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:47:40 2022 No.14548705

>>14548669
The actual substance of those physical things is not touched by any possible theory or prediction that has ever been made. Ontology has no predictive power or scientific use at all. Ideas like OPs just pique curiosity, we all want to know what we are, even if it isn't of use.

The good news is we all have direct access to observe consciousness at all times, which for a scientist is like having the top end lab equipment and lab and every chemical you could ever possibly need, 24/7, whenever you want to conduct research.

And if you do keep trying to isolate it in your research from all the noise that appears within it, you'll know what it is. And you should understand from there very quickly what reality is... It won't allow you to come up with any equations or discover a new type of particle, so there's no accolades waiting for you at the end.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:48:13 2022 No.14548706 >>14548568 >There is not a separate pocket of "is-ness" for abstract ideas and another for material. Exactly, because abstractions don't exist. >Ideas and atoms are made of the same. Ideas, insofar as they exist, are made of atoms.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:48:46 2022 No.14548707 >>14548699 You see. Look deeper. Your personal human life connected to and displayed against the backdrop of your total human experience. Look for coincidence. It's not. Its irony. Get it? The meme. Like pottery, it rhymes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:49:27 2022 No.14548709 >>14548593 Now kill yourself. What remains?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:50:33 2022 No.14548712 >>14548694 The qualitative element of time passing would not happen if every living being died right now. There is a qualitative part of time, not only the object measure. Like how there is a qualitative aspect of color, and an objective element.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:50:56 2022 No.14548713 File: 10 KB, 352x154, 352px-LG_logo_(2015).svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Human logic chain broken and inverted. Lifes bad. There are 4 but should be one. Honda symbol. Toyota. Its everywhere.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:52:11 2022 No.14548715 >>14548706 >the "insofar" guy Okay lol. >>14548709 You know the answer to what would be left from my PoV if I kill myself, so say it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:53:34 2022 No.14548718 >>14548699 >Consciousness causes collapse of the wavefunction Wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 13:53:40 2022 No.14548719 Batman is tripolar. Lives above and below. Does good and bad in both. But hes also Bruce Wayne. I'm talking in riddles. I'm a big guy. 4 u. 4 states united. The bane plane. The bane of man. Some one has to see.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:09:10 2022 No.14548742

>>14548705
>The actual substance of those physical things is not touched by any possible theory or prediction that has ever been made.
Then nothing you say about it has any weight. The only thing we can do to determine how reality works is to play with it and see if it reacts in a way we think it will. That's all we have. Anything else is just wishful thinking.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:09:30 2022 No.14548743

>>14548718
Consciousness is the mave function. It exists in two states at once in the minds eye. What makes a story? Context. We have all this extra context now. Context of THE STORY expressing itself subjectively in all its forms. Lord of the rings. Star wars. MARVEL movies. Context guys.. cmon man I did that. Context is a meme.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:10:11 2022 No.14548744 >>14548715 >Okay lol. Not an argument

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:10:18 2022 No.14548746

>>14548688
>It's not circular at all.
It is absolutely circular.

> Where do you think the laws of physics come from?
You mean "the laws of physics" as in the shopping list of currently known "laws" that could prove to be wrong or inaccuate tomorrow, or "the laws of physics" as in some hypothetical ultimate rules that govern reality, and may contradict everything you believe in and vindicate everytyhing that makes you seethe?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:15:02 2022 No.14548758 >>14548743 >Consciousness is the mave function No. Why do you think repeating bullshit over and over makes it any less wrong?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:17:24 2022 No.14548767 >>14548715 I don't care about your POV. Reality doesn't care about your death. Try it and find out if you don't believe me.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:19:09 2022 No.14548769

We are all one consciousness expressing itself subjectively through storytelling. The resonance. 50 lightning strikes every second. It affects all conscious life. The earth is brain. The electric pulses between synapses. We are the word. Sound is vibration. Vocal cords(music) vibrate to speak. We are god talking to himself. We are all. All truth. flattards are in the middle. The firmament. The earth is self centered so its round. What does a plane fold up into? A boat. Zetas. The greys. The moon monolith. The tv community the neutral human mascot. It's all there. Just look. Blue beam. Undeniable proof of god they most will dismiss as aliens. Alien. Lie. See? Tesla was in the middle. Aether is within not with out. Inner space. Infinity to and from beyond. 3 united is 8. Middle of the road is the safest place to stand if you stand sideways. Then you can see both left and right. Carl's jr. Carl's son. Rainbow of imagination. Star of a happy child. Feed your happy. Reading rainbow. Imagination. We subconsciously spongebob all this info and never see the connection to our self. Self actualization. The stone. Its possible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:24:49 2022 No.14548774 >>14548742 How it works =/= what it is made of. >>14548767 Don't be afraid to say it... If you drop dead right now, what is after that from your PoV. You know the answer.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:25:36 2022 No.14548776

>>14548746
>It is absolutely circular.
How?

>You mean "the laws of physics" as in the shopping list of currently known "laws" that could prove to be wrong or inaccuate tomorrow, or "the laws of physics"
Yes. Let me know when you prove your bullshit. Until then, keep your mouth shut.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:26:21 2022 No.14548778 >>14548776 >Yes Then it's circular and you lost the argument. :^)

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:26:23 2022 No.14548779
File: 495 KB, 720x767, 20220606_102213.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

My shoe. Tripolar. Forward and backward me in the middle going forward in the path of life. It's right there in front of you. Use the context and structure of storytelling and the human body. Read through my posts and you will see. See the light if you read yourself right. The kingdom is within. No gets to it but through him. Revelation in reverse. It's not a physical happening. Its ethereal. Inside. It's literally fucking happening this time. No more bullshit. Meme magic is goddamned real mother fuckers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:26:37 2022 No.14548780 >>14548769 >We are all one consciousness No.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:28:33 2022 No.14548781 >>14548780 Yes. If you have a nick nack display or whatever look at their symbols and what they mean to you and the world around. The answer is always in the middle. 1+1. Not 2. +. Untied. Us and the world through our stories. See?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:31:02 2022 No.14548783 It's fun how nobody in this thread has been able to properly respond to OP's subject

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:31:07 2022 No.14548784 >>14548781 Find the self through yourself and the world. The self is just it's own story. You go down the rabbit hole to free your mind. Alice in wonderland is backward. The matrix is backward.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:31:57 2022 No.14548787 >>14548715 >>14548627 >>14548593 >>14548774 JFC. The answer is fucking nothing, guys. Come on...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:32:55 2022 No.14548789 >>14548774 >How it works =/= what it is made of. It includes what it's made of. You're saying scientific theories don't say matter is made of atoms?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:33:09 2022 No.14548790 >>14548783 Materialist drones can only generate rhetoric according to a handful of templates.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:35:12 2022 No.14548792 >>14548783 Consciousness is not produced by the brain. Consciousness to a monk does not mean the same thing it does to us Western SCRUBS, and this is how ideas are bastardized...

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:35:33 2022 No.14548793 >>14548790 That's what I thought, the amount of incoherent materialist shillbots in this thread indicate that this is a question that makes even smartasses go rambling in circles

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:38:31 2022 No.14548796 File: 100 KB, 680x989, Greater Bait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543614 >/x/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:39:27 2022 No.14548797 >>14548796 >>>/pol/ >>>/lgbt/ >>>/trash/ Materialism is a political ideology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:42:07 2022 No.14548806 >>14548789 Of course, it can go down and down and down from atoms to whatever is at the bottom of the well, if there is a bottom.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:42:08 2022 No.14548807 File: 60 KB, 635x541, Pepe Coffee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548797 You don't seem to understand what materialism is, buddy

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:42:58 2022 No.14548810 >>14543614 It's arrogantly foolish to assume that your existence is more substantial than the clearly physical materials that it clearly operates based on.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:43:21 2022 No.14548811
File: 352 KB, 720x1280, Screenshot_20220606-104103_Gallery.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

With all I've said what is the 6th missing piece of science? I'm not smart enough. Average intelligence. Solve your puzzle and solve the worlds. The missing piece of the self puzzle is, Why. It's not coincidence. Its irony. It rhymes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:43:49 2022 No.14548813 >>14548810 The existence of a physical body does not equate the existence of consciousness

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:44:43 2022 No.14548818 >>14548807 See >>14548797

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:46:01 2022 No.14548823 >>14548813 I didn't say that you moron, everything is physical and no one is saying everything is conscious but other metaphysitards

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:47:21 2022 No.14548827
File: 85 KB, 783x815, 2352434.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>everything is physical
>no, i can't define "physical" as a category
Stop treating them as human and arguing with them. Simply talk about them without acknowledging them are allowing them to participate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:48:50 2022 No.14548829 >>14548827 The guy who always uses the word "insofar" for some reason, defines physical as "something that exists", so you can just ignore that for sure.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:49:26 2022 No.14548834 >>14548829 What did I just say about acknowledging the grey goo as individuals?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:50:07 2022 No.14548837 File: 170 KB, 900x1125, Big Floppa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543614 Ok OP, show us what proof do you have there is something "non-physical"/supernatural about the human brain. We'll be waiting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:51:45 2022 No.14548844 File: 23 KB, 600x625, 46345.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >are you questioning my metaphysical dogma? >i bet you can't even prove the opinions of the strawman in my head!!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:53:05 2022 No.14548850 >>14548807 What is "materialism"?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:55:32 2022 No.14548859 >>14543614 It's arrogantly foolish to assume that all of our awareness, mind, spirit and consciousness don't come from solely the fleshy brain

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:55:43 2022 No.14548860

>>14543614
Is this a glowie thread now? Look at all those propagandists pushing harassements toward OP's assessement of consciousness not being from the brain

I swear, those guys have a fetish to see themselves as nothing more than a literal meatbag, it's creepy how brainwashed normies are

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:55:50 2022 No.14548863 >>14548837 Read my posts. It's all right here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:56:42 2022 No.14548867 File: 147 KB, 800x789, 23523433.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >did you just call me out on assuming things? >well what about the assumptions that i assume you make?!?!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:56:51 2022 No.14548868 >>14543614 are you the same guy who was arguing on another thread about neuroscientists being liars and not actually knowing anything about cognitive functions?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:58:04 2022 No.14548870 >>14548868 You sound like you have PTSD from getting owned in another thread. Not sure what you're talking about wrt. neuroscientists being liars; they openly admit they barely know anything about cognitive functions.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:58:06 2022 No.14548871

>>14548837
Hmmm...

Neither God nor matter can ever explain its own existence? I think that is a problem.

I also don't think it makes much sense to have anything in existence which isolated by itself, the very thing itself, could not be reduced to whatever is proposed as its ultimate substsnce. Like a thought experiment where there are no atoms etc, just a void with thoughts floating around. The isolated thought even standing alone by itself should be reducible to the same thing as everything else.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:59:02 2022 No.14548874 File: 33 KB, 196x197, Sits on the chair wahoo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548863 Do you really consider THAT as solid proof for a supernatural origin of conciousness? Wow.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:59:03 2022 No.14548875 >>14548797 Trannies are actually the epitome of the same anti-scientific anti-materialism your thread is spouting, retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:00:06 2022 No.14548882 >>14548870 I did not get owned, if anyone got owned was the OP of that thread. Either way, you are wrong, and this thread is a collection of /x/-tier schizo garbage.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:00:07 2022 No.14548883 >>14548875 Every tranny is a materialist "soience" worshipper. Troonery is a direct consequence of your sick ideology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:01:09 2022 No.14548887 >>14548882 You sound psychologically ill. Maybe you should take a break from the chan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:01:13 2022 No.14548888 File: 252 KB, 583x293, WOOAAHOOHOOHOHOHOHAHAHA.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548871 >buzzwords buzzwords pseudoscience buzzwords You're surely think you're a big thinker, buddy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:02:43 2022 No.14548892 >>14548888 R u srs? That was very concise and easy to understand.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:04:55 2022 No.14548901 File: 90 KB, 308x302, Disappointed.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548892 I'm pretty sure not even a schizo from /x/ would understand you.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:09:46 2022 No.14548923
File: 51 KB, 722x650, consciousness.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>14543614
Humberto Maturana says each one of our cells makes us what we are. That and our experiences.

Also, pic related is an auto-generated response by GPT trained with data from /pol/

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:13:07 2022 No.14548938
File: 3.42 MB, 1563x1376, quasi-five-fold-brain.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>14548837
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory

>This model allows for important aspects of human consciousness, including the fast associative memory that allows for connections between different pieces of stored information and the [math]\text{non-locality of memory storage}[/math] (a specific memory is not stored in a specific location, i.e. a certain cluster of neurons).[1][10][11]

Does it not seems apparent, dear anon, that the brain is a multi-dimensional memristive holographic quasicrystal?

The imagination pulls from the nations of the imagi , your dream worlds exist in a different timespace and are accessed by HAM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_associative_memory

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:20:17 2022 No.14548963 File: 43 KB, 1080x622, consciousness2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548923 cont. see >>>/g/87231655

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:36:35 2022 No.14549005

>>14548883
There is zero scientific basis for transgenderism. It all relies on some nebulous concept of gendered "souls" that people are born with, but is entirely separate from their bodies. It is the exact same type of pseudoreligious shit you're spewing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:37:44 2022 No.14549009 >>14548887 Projection is not as clever as you think it is.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:42:51 2022 No.14549023

>>14549005
>There is zero scientific basis for transgenderism
There is also zero scientific basis for materialism.

>It all relies on some nebulous concept of gendered "souls"
No, it relies on the idea that humans are just clumps of cells animated by hormones, and that you can turn a man into a woman by reshaping their cells a bit and changing their hormones. lol. Fuck off, troon.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:46:07 2022 No.14549026

>>14549023
>There is also zero scientific basis for materialism
Non sequitur. Are you going to argue that transgenderism has any basis in science?
>humans are just clumps of cells animated by hormones
Wrong, otherwise they would never claim a man, pumped with his natural male hormones since birth, would be somehow a "woman" because he *feels* like one. Transgenderism is based on the idea of a metaphysical gendered soul, which is completely separate from the brain and the body may not even correspond to it.
>troon
I'm a dirty, dirty, materialist, so I *know* a man can never be a woman. It is magical-thinkers like you who enable this type of psychosis.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:46:26 2022 No.14549029 >>14549026 You lost the argument, troon.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:51:00 2022 No.14549041

>>14548404
>things don't exist outside of experience
that's just very shitty solipsism. also a positive claim, you should be able to prove it
>>14548404
>That's just more recycled pop-soi dogma,
let's compare the philosophical view of color and physics view of color, let's compare the philosophical view of illness vs the scientific view of illness, let's compare philosophy's thousands years debate over atomism and forms and science's particle physics. science has always reigned supreme over everything else when it comes to explanation of natural phenomena. even subjective experience like emotions, hallucinations, etc science has provided far better explanations. that's why qualia is the only thing left that philososhits can talk about
>retarded physicalist reductionism explaining consciousness
lmao, the funny thing is that i didn't even make any claim about what consciousness is. what i said is PROVE or show how any dualistic theory can be proven. the fact that just asking for evidence made you seethe this much says a lot.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:54:08 2022 No.14549050

>>14549041
>that's just very shitty solipsism
You're having a psychotic episode. You're responding to claims no one made.

>let's compare the philosophical view of color and physics view of color
We can't, because physics has no view of color. It deals with EM radiation and wavelengths, not with color. You are seriously mentally ill.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:54:35 2022 No.14549051 File: 3.90 MB, 1600x1272, dreamworld.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543614 The world is a simulation The veil of the game is lifted upon death

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:01:52 2022 No.14549071

>14549050 (no (You) 4u)
>You're having a psychotic episode. You're responding to claims no one made.
that was meant for >>14548397

>We can't, because physics has no view of color. It deals with EM radiation and wavelengths, not with color.
imagine being this ignorant in philosophy. there is a fuck ton of attempts by philosophers and metaphysicsfags to explain colors and various other things. all was rendered obsolete by science.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:02:52 2022 No.14549075 >>14549071 See how mentally ill you are? Once again: physics has no view of color. It deals with EM radiation and wavelengths, not with color.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:07:48 2022 No.14549091

>>14549041
Come to terms with Solipsism. It is all there is. There is no real person, not me nor you, there is just it and the illusions within it. I've meditated into deep states over years, I cba to write walls of text. But you can find emptiness for yourself in the same manner and then you will know what you are.

I stopped bothering practicing meditation. It all amounts to nothing because this is it already.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:08:12 2022 No.14549093 >>14548774 >If you drop dead right now, what is after that from your PoV. See >>14548767

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:09:59 2022 No.14549099 >>14549093 The answer was nothing. Obviously. You unnecessarily combative mofo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:15:47 2022 No.14549108 >>14548778 >Then it's circular How? Do you even know what circular means?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:17:24 2022 No.14549111 >>14549029 Saying it won't make it true, anon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:18:32 2022 No.14549113 >>14548779 Real schizo hours

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:19:33 2022 No.14549116 >>14548781 No, time to take your meds. >>14548780

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:20:35 2022 No.14549119 >>14548806 And? That's saying what it's made of.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:22:44 2022 No.14549123 >>14549119 It isn't. But I know why you think it means that, and your logic behind it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:23:09 2022 No.14549124 So many ""consciousness"" schizo retards on /sci/. What's the scientific reason for this behavior of theirs?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:26:27 2022 No.14549128

>>14543614
>It's arrogantly foolish to assume that all of our awareness, mind, spirit and consciousness come from solely the fleshy brain
Why? What evidence do you that consciousness doesn't solely come from the fleshy brain. It is obvious that consciousness at least in part comes the brain as we can effect it by changing material properties in the brain. Such as a lobotomy or when people get brain damage it changes their thought processes. You need to show that it must also come from outside. Remember we are in sci not x op. You can't say something is something without evidence. You also to have to remember whatever this thing that is beyond out fleshy brain will be measurable as it interacts with with fleshy material of the brain. Such as when I think I want to raise my arm and my my arm receives signals to do so.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:28:02 2022 No.14549133 >>14549124 Because everything else is boring and irrelevant to being alive. Threads on neurology, psychiatry, consciousness, emotions of both humans and animals will always be the only interesting topic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:28:46 2022 No.14549135 >>14549128 You don't understand it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:48:00 2022 No.14549182 In Buddhist terms, consciousness is what happens when you add up the first three skandhas. The form, feeling, and perception of something gets formed into a conscious impression of the thing.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:58:51 2022 No.14549210

>>14548827
>>no, i can't define "physical" as a category
What the fuck? It just means pertaining to physics.

>>14548829
>The guy who always uses the word "insofar" for some reason, defines physical as "something that exists"
Where? If you have to lie to support your argument then you're probably wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:02:57 2022 No.14549214 File: 27 KB, 500x281, 3USgt2gh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14548844 >uses strawman to whine about strawmen

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:09:10 2022 No.14549226

>>14548860
>Is this a glowie thread now?
Schizo buzzword

>Look at all those propagandists pushing harassements toward OP's assessement of consciousness not being from the brain
LOL, being called out for posting bullshit is not harassment.

>I swear, those guys have a fetish to see themselves as nothing more than a literal meatbag
You are a meatbag whether you accept it or not. Wishful thinking is not an argument.

>it's creepy how brainwashed normies are
LOL, you're the one who's brainwashed. You believe in literal magic.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:21:09 2022 No.14549243

>>14549226
>Schizo buzzword
That's what a glowie would say
>LOL, being called out for posting bullshit is not harassment.
OP only assessed something to prompt people to talk about it indepth
>You are a meatbag whether you accept it or not.
Speak for yourself, atleast I'm a divine being that temporarily reside in a human biosuit while you're a pathetic puddle of cells, lmao
>LOL, you're the one who's brainwashed. You believe in literal magic.
Same as above, speak for yourself in your fanatic materialism

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:26:53 2022 No.14549261 >>14549023 >There is also zero scientific basis for materialism. How can you be so delusional? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:28:32 2022 No.14549264 >>14549099 The answer is that no one cares about your POV, schizo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:29:41 2022 No.14549267 >>14549123 >It isn't You just said it is. Atoms, etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:36:48 2022 No.14549285 >>14549243 >That's what a glowie would say That's what a schizo says. >OP only assessed something He made a bullshit claim. >I'm a divine being LOL, proving my point. You're incredibly arrogant and delusional.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:37:41 2022 No.14549287 >>14549261 100% mentally ill. Nothing in there supports or even concerns materialism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:38:33 2022 No.14549290 >>14549285 >WAAAAAA NO IM A MEATBAG I MUST ACCEPT IT YOU SHOULD ACCEPT IT TOO WHY CAN'T YOU BE BRAINWASHED THAT YOU'RE NOTHING MORE THAN FLESH WITHOUT ANY SPIRITUAL QUALITIES WHATSOEVER You have an inferiority complex or what?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:38:48 2022 No.14549292 >>14549210 >It just means pertaining to physics. How do I know if something "pertains to physics"? This ends the NPC's dialogue tree.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:41:00 2022 No.14549294 >>14549108 >>what's "physical"? >the stuff that physics deals with >>what stuff does physics deal with >physics deals with the stuff that physics deals with Time for you to neck yourself because you lost the argument again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:48:16 2022 No.14549311 Rofl this thread is one of the funniest shit I've ever seen in a while on /sci/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:00:43 2022 No.14549348 File: 53 KB, 403x448, cvbbmwwe4rzz.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14549287 >literally every successful theory in physics being materialist doesn't support materialism Cope

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:10:04 2022 No.14549369 >>14549348 No physical theory concerns materialism. Physics doesn't care about your metaphysical dogma at all. You need to take your meds and stop acting psychotically.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:11:22 2022 No.14549373 >>14549287 >>14549051 >>14548938 >>14548883 >>14548797 >>14548792 >>14548790 >>14543614 Say we run with consciousness not being entirely material? What can we do with that conclusion?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:11:56 2022 No.14549376 >>14549290 >WAAAAAA NO IM A MEATBAG Yes, you are. Unless you have any evidence of anything else, that's the truth, brainwashed schizo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:12:56 2022 No.14549381 >>14549292 >How do I know if something "pertains to physics"? By comparing it to physics. Same way you know anything pertains to anything else.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:13:50 2022 No.14549383 >>14549381 >By comparing it to physics This isn't even a coherent response. What do you mean "comparing it to physics"? You people are seriously off the rails.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:14:42 2022 No.14549385 >>14549294 >>physics deals with the stuff that physics deals with Who are you quoting, retard? Here's what physics deals with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:15:02 2022 No.14549386

>>14549373
>Say we run with consciousness not being entirely material? What can we do with that conclusion?
4 of the posts you reference are mine and I don't even recognize "material" as a valid concept, so your question is based on a meaningless premise as far as I'm concerned.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:15:54 2022 No.14549388 >>14549369 >No physical theory concerns materialism Every single one is materialist. Show me a single non-material theory in physics. You have no argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:16:02 2022 No.14549389 >>14549385 >Here's what physics deals with >literally doesn't explain LOL. You lose this argument every time. Drones only know how to lose.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:17:13 2022 No.14549392 >>14549386 Ok. So consciousness is just consciousness then. What use is there for that disposition?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:17:25 2022 No.14549393 >>14549383 >This isn't even a coherent response. How so? >What do you mean "comparing it to physics"? I can't help you if you don't speak English. What part of that sentence don't you understand?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:17:35 2022 No.14549395 >>14549388 >. Show me a single non-material theory in physics. We don't even have to go far. Show me how newtonian physics depends on your materialist dogma being real.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:19:16 2022 No.14549399 >>14549393 Take your antipsychotics. You are spewing literal schizo word salad. How do I take a phenomenon and "compare it to physics"?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:21:22 2022 No.14549405 >>14549392 >What use is there for that disposition? For what? Simply acknowledging things as they are without trying to frame them in terms of abstract, dehumanizing 19th century fantasies? What use is there for your inherently unfalsifiable dogma?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:24:28 2022 No.14549414 >>14549405 The materialist dogma seeks utility in the understanding of its faculties. What does your dogma offer besides disparagement of those efforts?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:25:26 2022 No.14549417

>>14549414
>The materialist dogma seeks utility in the understanding of its faculties
How can you gain any understanding from unfalsiable fantasies that have no bearing on reality by their very construction?

>What does your dogma
What dogma? Take your antipsychotics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:27:06 2022 No.14549421 >>14549373 >What can we do with that conclusion? Realize that "death" doesn't exist and that your entire earthly life in here doesn't matter in the end, since you're gonna move on to other worlds Tells you anything?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:30:10 2022 No.14549432 >>14549421 Best I can get from that is don't worry about death. >>14549417 At the very least those unfalsifiable fantasies offer a model that can be linked to something tangible in order to come up with a falsifiable experiment.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:31:34 2022 No.14549436

>>14549432
>those unfalsifiable fantasies offer a model that can be linked to something tangible in order to come up with a falsifiable experiment.
They don't, by definition. You will never be able to come up with an expertiment to test your dehumanization fetish fantasies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:35:03 2022 No.14549443 >>14549436 >dehumanization fetish fantasies Why does likening humans to robots and animals detract from their humanity?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:35:52 2022 No.14549448 >>14549443 Nice deflection. Still waiting for you to explain how you're gonna test your dehumanization fetish fantasies.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:41:03 2022 No.14549460

>>14549448
Start with defining the minimum criteria for what's considered consciousness. Offhand, you'd need some form of memory for adaptability, a channel or circuit for facilitating the coordination of information, and lastly information filters for transduction external information.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:42:26 2022 No.14549463 >>14549460 >Start with defining the minimum criteria for what's considered consciousness. Having a subjective experience of being. How are you gonna test that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:45:11 2022 No.14549470 >>14549463 There's surveying everyone considered conscious to whittle down what everyone seems to consider universal to the experience. Like feelings or beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 18:46:07 2022 No.14549473 >>14549470 Completely incongruent bot reply.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:31:59 2022 No.14549593 >>14549389 It literally explains physics in detail. You lost.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:41:35 2022 No.14549628

>>14549395
>Show me how newtonian physics depends on your materialist dogma being real.
Newtonian physics is just matter interacting with matter. Are you completely braindead? Thanks for confirming you can't even show a single non-material theory in physics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:42:43 2022 No.14549633 >>14549593 >It literally explains physics I didn't ask you to explain physics. You lost the argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:43:59 2022 No.14549638 >>14549628 Newtonian mechanics doesn't care what "matter" is. Take your meds now.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:48:33 2022 No.14549651

>>14549399
>plain English
>REEEEE THIS IS SCHIZO WORD SALAD
OK, you're clearly unhinged and have no response. Just compare what you're talking about to physics. Does it follow physical laws? Is it made of the same fundamental stuff as physics? How else do you determine that anything pertains to anything else? You would seem to have the same "objection" to anything pertaining to anything, because you have no actual argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:49:55 2022 No.14549657 >>14549633 You literally did >>what stuff does physics deal with LOL

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:51:38 2022 No.14549662 >>14549657 I didn't ask you to explain physics. I asked you to define what physics deals with.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:52:11 2022 No.14549666 >>14543614 It's what all our evidence suggests. Alter the brain and you alter consciousness, destroy the brain and you destroy consciousness. There is not a single piece of evidence for disembodied consciousness.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:53:24 2022 No.14549671

>>14549651
>Just compare what you're talking about to physics
Meaningless schizobabble.

>Does it follow physical laws?
Suppose it violates them. Now what?

>How else do you determine that anything pertains to anything else?
By checking whether or not it falls under the definition of the category of things a subject deals with, which you are unable to provide.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:53:58 2022 No.14549675

>>14549373
If you know that consciousness is fundamentally nothing which is fundamentally everything... There is nothing useful or practical about that.

However you might feel more at ease with your character dying because you view things from the perspective of the whole. So the Atheist "oblivion!!!!" is for the character, and when you identify as the character, it is scary to imagine. When you recognize you yourself are also a limitated illusion within it, perhaps you are more comfortable with it entering oblivion. As you may be about a thought that you stop having.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:54:56 2022 No.14549677 >>14549662 That's what the article I gave you does. You only have substanceless semantic arguments left. Thanks for confirming you lost.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:57:38 2022 No.14549685 >>14549638 >Newtonian mechanics doesn't care what "matter" is. This doesn't even respond to what I said Newtonian physics is about matter interacting with matter. That's completely materialistic. You're grasping at straws.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:58:32 2022 No.14549689 >>14549677 If it does, why don't you include it in your next post? You lost the argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 19:59:35 2022 No.14549691 >>14549685 >Newtonian physics is about matter interacting with matter Newtonian physics doesn't give a fuck about "matter". For all Newtonian physics cares, "matter" isn't real and all the objects it deals with are of the mind.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:01:10 2022 No.14549696

>>14549267
It isn't, I literally understand completely what you are thinking and I can't find the words to show you what I mean... Say you fall asleep, you dream you are working at a science lab with a super expensive microscope. You zoom into an object and find smaller and smaller things it is "made of". But you wake up and see immediately, all of that was imaginary, so I guess for you made of "brain matter"... Unpacking stuff into more stuff does not actually get at what it fundamentally is.

You could dig down as far as you want.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:04:19 2022 No.14549708 >>14549685 You're literally stupid and making your friends look bad. Or trolling.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:05:51 2022 No.14549714

>>14549671
>compare two things
>Meaningless schizobabble
You lost.

>Suppose it violates them. Now what?
Then its not physical. I'm still waiting for you to show me one thing that isn't physical. Should be easy for a divine being like yourself.

>By checking whether or not it falls under the definition of the category of things a subject deals with, which you are unable to provide.
That sounds like a comparison, aka "meaningless schizobabble."

Also, I gave you an entire article detailing what the subject deals with. What is your problem, moron?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:07:37 2022 No.14549724 >>14549689 >If it does, why don't you include it in your next post? I already included it in my prior posts. Just search for "Wikipedia" until you find it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:10:20 2022 No.14549730 Reminder that intelligence and consciousness are not the same thing and do not equate each other

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:10:23 2022 No.14549731

>>14549714
>compare two things
Two things that aren't even of the same kind. You're a literal mental cripple.

>Then its not physical.
LOL. So what happens next time physicists discover a phenomenon that breaks their "laws"? Is materialist drone nu-physics simply going to deny reality? I actually wouldn't be surprised. Anyway, you lost the argument. Just take the L and walk away.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:11:25 2022 No.14549738 >>14549724 You are subhuman and you lost. You will demonstrate this by failing to include a definition in your next post.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:12:03 2022 No.14549741
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>>14549691
>Newtonian physics doesn't give a fuck about "matter".
Describing how matter interacts with matter sounds a lot like giving a fuck about matter, moronic schizo.

>For all Newtonian physics cares, "matter" isn't real
LOL. You're an idiot. If Newtonian physics was not about real matter, then it would just be math.

>and all the objects it deals with are of the mind.
It sure is weird that Newtonian physics is about the mind when it doesn't mention the mind at all and only mentions matter. What a revolutionary concept you've discovered. Physics can describe anything I want as long as it doesn't mention them at all. Physics is not about matter, it's about leprechauns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:14:56 2022 No.14549748 >>14549741 The sheer degree of your delusional mental illness. Why do schizoprenic highschool dropouts with no scientific education come here and post their shart? You lost the argument.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:16:14 2022 No.14549753

>>14549696
>I can't find the words to show you what I mean
Because you have no meaning.

>But you wake up and see immediately, all of that was imaginary, so I guess for you made of "brain matter"
The dream is made of brain matter, what you think the dream contained is not made of anything, it was never there in the first place, it's just an abstraction.

>Unpacking stuff into more stuff does not actually get at what it fundamentally is.
Either it does or you can't get to what it fundamentally is. Point?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:17:15 2022 No.14549760 >>14549708 Not an argument. You're literally arguing matter is not materialist. You're a laughingstock.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:19:32 2022 No.14549768

>>14549731
>Two things that aren't even of the same kind.
>aren't even of the same kind.
That's a comparison, you moronic schizo.

>So what happens next time physicists discover a phenomenon that breaks their "laws"?
Physics gets revised or it can't be revised and you finally win. Until then, shut the fuck up. No one cares about your fairy tales.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:20:29 2022 No.14549773

>>14549753
Yes it wasn't made of anything, that is correct and important.

You can't get to what things fundamentally are by pursuing "stuff". Pursuing stuff you find more and more stuff. That is the point. I can't really help beyond that... Though I think I saw some popsci article years ago about some sort of quantum particles coming into existence from nothing. Materialistically searching for answers, I'd look into that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:20:49 2022 No.14549776 >>14549738 I already gave you an entire article defining it. You have no argument. Thanks for confirming you lost.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:21:57 2022 No.14549781 >>14549748 Not an argument. Thanks for admitting I'm right.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:24:16 2022 No.14549783

>>14549768
>That's a comparison,
A comparison between two things that cannot be compared. Anyway, I'm glad you've devolved into full-blown 85 IQ retardation. It illustrates the level of /sci/ "materialists".

>Physics gets revised
Why would it get revised to account for things that are non-physical according to you?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:24:53 2022 No.14549786

>>14549773
>You can't get to what things fundamentally are by pursuing "stuff".
Either we can or we can't. You certainly can't get to what things fundamentally are by ignoring evidence and just claiming whatever you feel like.

>Pursuing stuff you find more and more stuff.
This is only a problem if you beg the question by assuming stuff is not fundamental.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:25:20 2022 No.14549788 >>14549776 >>14549781 You will never be human. Your life will never have moral value. You will never have a scientific education. You will always undermine your own cause with every post. You lost the argument and are effectively admitting it. :^)

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:27:53 2022 No.14549796

>>14549783
>A comparison between two things that cannot be compared.
Then how did you determine they aren't of the same kind? Your schizo nonsense refutes itself.

>Why would it get revised to account for things that are non-physical according to you?
Because unlike you, physics is actually concerned with figuring out what's real. Which means it follows observations of reality and fixes its own mistakes. As opposed to your schizo dogma which will never change regardless of what evidence is given. Wow, what a concept.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:28:54 2022 No.14549798 >>14549788 See >>14549781

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:29:21 2022 No.14549801 >>14549796 >Then how did you determine they aren't of the same kind? LOL. Outright mentally ill. Keep it up. >physics is actually concerned with figuring out what's real Why would it deal with non-physical things?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:30:24 2022 No.14549805 >>14549798 You've directy conceded that physics is indifferent about "matter" to such a degree that matter might as well not be real at all. You lost the argument.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 20:30:47 2022 No.14549806

>>14549786
The problem is that stuff never explains its own being, and everything in a vacuum isolated, certain things like abstractions are not reducible to "stuff". They are not made of anything. But there they are.

Nothingness is the soundest starting point. Not stuff. If you really enjoy the material worldview I'd try to Google for the particles from nothing that I mentioned.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 21:01:25 2022 No.14549911 File: 1.32 MB, 220x220, 1645881574604.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] physicalists BTFO

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 21:05:09 2022 No.14549921 >>14549051 Lifted upon self death. It's a spider web. A story web. Look at the images. Its unfuckingdeniable.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 21:27:18 2022 No.14549983

>>14549801
>LOL. Outright mentally ill. Keep it up.
Not an argument. Thanks for admitting they're comparable.

>Why would it deal with non-physical things?
What real thing is no-physical? You've been asked several times to show this but you've failed every time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 21:28:19 2022 No.14549986 >>14549805 >You've directy conceded that physics is indifferent about "matter" to such a degree that matter might as well not be real at all. Where?

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 21:29:31 2022 No.14549988
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>>14549983
Your thoughts are non-physical, yet you're sure they exist
Or will you be a neckbeard and reduce yourself into thinking they are mere electric neurons being transmitted randomly?
You are such a pathetic retard that I'm legit convinced your soul has been annihilated out of your sheer will to delude yourself into believing that you're a meatbag

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 21:32:07 2022 No.14549993 >>14549983 >What real thing is no-physical? Any real thing that doesn't conform to currently known physical models, which has been a fuckton of things historically. You literally have a subhuman level of intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 21:38:59 2022 No.14550007 >>14549988 Way to go being a smelly retard and validating the nonsensical and invalid "physical" vs. "nonphysical" dichotomy.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 22:45:39 2022 No.14550177

>>14549806
>The problem is that stuff never explains its own being
You're assuming there is some intelligent reason behind things being the way they are. Try again without making assumptions.

>certain things like abstractions are not reducible to "stuff".
No need to reduce then to anything, abstractions aren't real.

>Nothingness is the soundest starting point.
The starting point is empirical data. Not some bullshit you've made up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 22:50:49 2022 No.14550193 >>14549988 >Your thoughts are non-physical No, they're brain states. Completely physical. Try again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 22:52:33 2022 No.14550200 >>14549993 >Any real thing that doesn't conform to currently known physical models Such as? >which has been a fuckton of things historically. No, those are just mistakes. Science progresses as we learn more. Unlike your braindead woo.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 23:00:09 2022 No.14550229

>>14550177
I don't think you're ever going to understand. I don't mean just disagreeing, I mean you're never going to actually understand what is being discussed here no matter how many hours someone may spend with you.

You don't understand that abstractions take place inside of existence. There isn't a place called existence and a separate place called non-existence where the little abstractions live. There is one "realm" every single thing occupies. Everything is in it. Everything IS it. It's that simple. And you will go to your grave never understanding this truth, never understanding the logical reason that anything exists rather than nothing, never understanding what you are... You aren't missing much. But anyone keen on pursuing knowledge would surely be pissed off at never getting something.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 23:14:50 2022 No.14550259

>>14550229
>You don't understand that abstractions take place inside of existence.
No. Abstractions don't actually exist. Only the physical exists. The number 4 for example doesn't exist as an abstraction. It only exists as an idea in your brain, a drawing on paper, etc. Where is this mythical 4?

>There isn't a place called existence and a separate place called non-existence where the little abstractions live.
Right, you're the only one who believes abstractions are in a place. I said they don't exist. They aren't anywhere.

>There is one "realm" every single thing occupies. Everything is in it. Everything IS it.
Right, and abstractions are not anything.

>never understanding the logical reason that anything exists
Neither will you. You don't even know that there is such a reason. The only real difference between you and me is that I follow the evidence and you make shit up and pretend like it should be taken seriously.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 23:16:14 2022 No.14550263 File: 36 KB, 738x714, 1650354554420.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] oh, it's this thread again

>>	bodhi Mon Jun 6 23:38:02 2022 No.14550318 >>14550229 you are talking to someone who is legitimately mentally ill, he does not have the capacity to understand you anymore than fruit bat does. He does not posses intuition, he is an organic computer programmed to respond to stimulus with retardation

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 23:47:51 2022 No.14550343

>>14550259
I understand the reason and I've made nothing up at all... Ideas and drawings take place inside of reality... Maybe you do understand it but are too scared of the implications and that is the real reason you act this way.

Existential crisis helplines etc are sometimes included in sidebars of messageboards focused on nondual reality. It is quite a scary thing for most people, and maybe some would rather try to convince themselves abstractions etc are not taking place in reality. This is not a position any serious neuroscientist etc takes, and I have watched many of them discuss the "hard problem".

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:01:14 2022 No.14550454 File: 183 KB, 326x244, I came here to laugh at you knuckles.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] It's quite funny to see OP having a schizo breakdown trying to cope with the fact that conciousness is all in the physical brain.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:06:16 2022 No.14550467 >>14548107 >OP never mentioned receivers I know, I mentioned them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:08:27 2022 No.14550476 >>14543630 lol no it isn't.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:09:28 2022 No.14550481 It is in the water.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:11:34 2022 No.14550485

>>14548419
That does not imply what you think it does. In fact you even admit that it is a shared observation aka a shared conscious experience and NOT this mysterious separate realm of the "physical" that can't actually be seen except through consciousness.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:15:26 2022 No.14550493

>>14548586
So? Death is actually a purely "other" phenomena. Our only understanding of death is in how it effects our relationships with others. That is because when someone dies they leave this world. So the only possible way to understand death within this life is how the absence of others effects us. But we do not know what has happened to the people we lost.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:17:01 2022 No.14550496 >>14550476 Nah, first anon's right. You're effectively insisting on your consciousness mattering enough to require its own system of exotic physics to account for it.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:19:07 2022 No.14550498

>>14550496
Ahh but I am a truth seeker anon. Truth is not the same thing as science. Science will lose its credibility as an institution of truth if it refuses to accept its limitations.

What you call physics is only a construct a convenient model on phenomena. That us exactly what it is and is not a misrepresentation.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:24:22 2022 No.14550509
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>>14550485
>mysterious separate realm of the "physical"
One person sees something.
Two people hear corroborating sounds.
A diagnostic machine records information on it.
An abstract mathematial model makes predictions that agree with its existence.
Unlike with a dream where consciousness genuinely is the only thing happening, physical objects have consistency and persistence to them. In a dream nothing has any necessary adherence to logical consistency, but in reality your actions have lasting consequences regardless of how much you're personally paying attention to them. If you drop out and try to replace reality with substance abuse the physical world will keep track of everything for you whether you want it to or not.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:27:09 2022 No.14550512

>>14550509
You still fail to understand what is meant anon. I am not saying the entire world belongs to me. I am not saying the world is my self. I am saying the world is nothing but consciousness the same exact "stuff" that I am but not "me" A persistent world does not contradict that at all.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:32:24 2022 No.14550520

>>14550512
I understand and disagree with it. We have dreams which are subjective consciousness mostly or entirely divorced from objective physical reality. Calling the difference between those two things consciousness and consciousness needlessly conflates what isn't the same.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:35:50 2022 No.14550530

>>14550520
Wrong. Dreams are just as vivid and real as this world. And they do not all come from within my self either. The main difference between dreams and waking life is order, hence there are things called the "laws" of physics. And while the horrifying nightmares I have seen at night could be even worse than this world it doesn't make this world good either. There is a NEED for a change.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:41:56 2022 No.14550548

>>14550496
Physics is inside it. Spacetime is inside it. You won't get this because you're thinking of times before living beings walked the planet as proof to the contrary.

It isn't the proof you think.

If you want to understand reality this bad, then awaken. That's the only way.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:46:35 2022 No.14550565

>>14550530
Seems to me like a much better explanation is that dreams aren't logically consistent because that's a huge clue they're instances of self-contained consciousness boucning off itself without anything external to keep track of it. And that in turn is a huge clue about an objective physical reality existing independent of our mental constructs.
There's definitely asymmetry to the two since dreams are notorious for NOT changing the real world (common phrase of relevance here being "it was just a dream" said upon waking and realizing whatever you thought happened just died on the boundary between your internal thoughts and the rest of the world). Meanwhile if someone wants to they can fuck with your dreams from the objective physical world e.g. by prematurely ending them with a loud noise. And plants or chemicals consumed from the external world yield results upon your conscious experience, but no thought form can be consumed to produce objects in the external world the other way around unless you seriously abuse metaphorical language to make a poetic and wrong argument.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:53:37 2022 No.14550580

>>14550565
Actually many of my dreams can be quite structured and even feel like watching a movie or participating in one. I would describe most of them as chatoic but that doesn't mean they are limited by my self. It became VERY clear to me that I was not alone in my mind when I started lucid dreaming. The monster is not merely randomness and limitations it is deliberate and malicious. I have also met someone else in my dreams before. I am not certain that they never effect the outside world like you think. I believe I may have had an effect on our world from within my dreams on numerous occasions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:55:58 2022 No.14550590 >>14550580 This is not awakening. Magic isn't real. You didn't manifest anything. This is playground games. Awaken.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 01:57:10 2022 No.14550595 >>14550590 Why? Because "cringey" people think like that? So you listen to what is "trendy"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 02:01:10 2022 No.14550609 >>14550595 Demons, dreams, waking life, other people, your self. All maya. Claiming to perform manifestation will put people off from pursuing truth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 02:02:01 2022 No.14550612 >>14550609 Fuck those people honestly.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 02:03:34 2022 No.14550618

>>14550609
Eh. I am perfectly able to see through the "maya" of eastern religions. The idea that we have no self is a lie along with the idea that selves are poisonous. You do realize that is what "sin" means right? Christianity has already lost the fight for my soul no need to even try to bring it back.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 02:15:00 2022 No.14550657 >>14550618 So you did find an unchanging self? What did you find it to be?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 02:17:16 2022 No.14550668 >>14550657 I found love.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 02:23:33 2022 No.14550690 >>14550668 Did you find it in a hopeless place by any chance?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 02:24:20 2022 No.14550694 >>14550690 Yes.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 03:25:09 2022 No.14550866

>>14550343
>I understand the reason and I've made nothing up at all
Then why can't you give a single piece of evidence?

>Ideas and drawings take place inside of reality
Where did I say anything different? I'm talking about abstractions.

>It is quite a scary thing for most people, and maybe some would rather try to convince themselves abstractions etc are not taking place in reality.
I don't need to convince myself of anything, the burden of proof is on you.

>This is not a position any serious neuroscientist etc takes
False and not even a valid argument.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 03:28:00 2022 No.14550873

>>14550485
>That does not imply what you think it does
It does. It doesn't imply what you think it does.

>In fact you even admit that it is a shared observation aka a shared conscious experience and NOT this mysterious separate realm of the "physical" that can't actually be seen except through consciousness.
You're so braindead you can't even grasp the argument. There is no separate realm. Consciousness is as physical as everything else that exists.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 03:30:07 2022 No.14550883 >>14550498 >Ahh but I am a truth seeker Your aren't seeking truth, you're just making shit up. In order to seek truth you actually have to go and chase it. It's hard work. It's what scientists do while you sit around and play make believe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 03:31:28 2022 No.14550886 >>14550512 >I am saying the world is nothing but consciousness the same exact "stuff" that I am but not "me" Too bad that hypothesis has no evidence and makes no predictions, or it might have to be taken seriously.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 03:55:31 2022 No.14550937 >>14550668 Now that we've found love, what are we gonna do with it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 05:46:38 2022 No.14551127 >>14543614 why is matter not conscious?

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 07:33:17 2022 No.14551306

>>14550866
Qualitative experiences take place inside reality. Isolated in a vacuum without matter (thought experiment, follow along), not a substance.

You say they don't exist. They are in reality.

There is a reason neuroscientists discuss these problems and don't try to claim qualia isn't in reality. When you get older you might get it.

Anonymous Tue Jun 7 12:00:48 2022 No.14551660

>>14551306
>Isolated in a vacuum without matter (thought experiment, follow along), not a substance.
Isolated in a vacuum without matter, there's nothing left at all. You're confusing an abstraction with something real again.

>You say they don't exist. They are in reality.
No, I said they do exist. You're begging the question by assuming they are something more than matter, which will be left when taking matter away. If I take the matter of your sandwich away, there is no "sandwich essence" or "sandwich concept" left over.

>There is a reason neuroscientists discuss these problems and don't try to claim qualia isn't in reality.
Right, they say qualia are individual brain states.

You've repeatedly failed to grasp the argument, you're the one who didn't get it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 16:15:36 2022 No.14552207 File: 25 KB, 1873x115, post.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14543614

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 16:54:13 2022 No.14552289 >>14543614 >What if our consciousness isn't our brain? This is what's called a "category mistake". Coincidentally, the term was introduced to describe a different error in the philosophy of mind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 17:00:33 2022 No.14552313 >>14552207 More bullshit fairy tales. Yawn

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/sci/ - Science & Math