/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.14501429]

What should be done about retarded SETI incels who decide they have the right to represent all mankind on the interstellar stage without asking anyone's opinion?

[Anonymous No.14501449]

>>14501429
Just let them get on with it, we're probably the only intelligent species in the galaxy.
>Source: The Bible
>Source: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1921655117
>Source: https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.08448

[Anonymous No.14501471]

>>14501449
>third link
>literally Loeb
>the definition of SETI incel who popularized the idea of Oumuamua being starship for pure hype points

[Anonymous No.14501476]

>>14501471
Read the paper, they conclude that humans are likely currently completely alone in the universe and that intelligent life is most likely to evolve about 10 trillion years from now. Wouldn't really call that conclusion congruent with the "SETI incel"

[Anonymous No.14501485]

What is it with SETi and daddy issues? Remember the movie Contact which was all about fucking bitch astronomer who had some strange daddy issues and was projecting it on aliens to the point when aliens were manifestinf themselves to her in the form of her father?
And then there is novel Three body problem and it is also about the bitch astronomer with daddy issues who hated humanity because some shit happened to her dad in the Communist China?

[Anonymous No.14501493]

>>14501476
Avi Loeb doesn't have any concrete opinion or conviction he is just injecting himself into any SETi related topic, you can search all of his other articles and their conclusiona contradict this paper.

[Anonymous No.14501503]

Any other movie where aliens come to main hero in the form of the father? Other than Guardians of the galaxy 2

[Anonymous No.14501510]

>>14501485
>>14501503
I think it's supposed to be like paternal symbolism.

[Anonymous No.14501521]

>>14501510
Isn't it kinda fucked up to project the warm and caring archeotype of "The Father" Onto some stranger alien race you know nothing about and who don't know you and who may not share your emotions or if any human emotions that can only be originated in human brain?
Why can't these seti freaks see how they just project their fucked up emotional mess onto black and alien cosmos?

[Anonymous No.14501537]

>>14501521
>Isn't it kinda fucked up to project
Yeah. it's pretty fucked up. But I think it comes from a kinda utopian (maybe even a judeo-christian) view that there will be some great, all powerful entity, that will come from outside and save us all. Particularly in Contact, Sagan had referenced the idea that it doesn't look like there's anything coming to save us from ourselves (iirc it was in The Demon Haunted World).

But yes, it's still a little strange.

[Anonymous No.14501558]

>>14501521
Carl Sagan is to blame for most of it. Even how you said it - save us from our selves, how can I eve unwrap it. Aren't we creators of our destiny? Once aliens come and try to save us from ourselves it's basically enslavement, we lose freedom and agency to decide the direction of our development, some higher force would be deciding and we would be at the mercy of other. Is this preferable to being free, human but in the risk of self-destruction? Iile fucking slave traders could have said the same about black Africans - we save them from themselves they probably would kill each other, but now we decide where to place them as objects and we will decide where they will live and how they live

[Anonymous No.14501563]

>>14501558
>>
>>14501537

[Anonymous No.14501607]

>>14501558
>>14501563
>Aren't we creators of our destiny?
I'd agree with that. I'm not sure if I say that "Carl Sagan is to blame for most of it" though, a lot of the muh alien soi shit seems more recent in origin. I'd argue that The Demon Haunted World expressed that exact same sentiment that you did: we're the masters of our own fate. If we require saving, that our fault. But there is nothing out there that's going to come and save us. Maybe he's indirectly responsible for it though, Sagan was Black Science Man's mentor. And I think that it was him and the early 2010's pop-sci/atheist/skeptic movement that gave us the modern soience consumer.

[Anonymous No.14501652]

>>14501558
>Carl Sagan is to blame for most of it
Alienated (heh) nerdy people have always been like this. Their proportion in the population is just rising for some reason.
>Sagan was Black Science Man's mentor
Which makes me suspicious of everything Carl Sagan has ever done.

[Anonymous No.14501659]

>>14501652
>Which makes me suspicious of everything Carl Sagan has ever done.
lol, fair desu.

[Anonymous No.14501697]

I don't want aliens interfering with culture of human civilisation. If we happen to intercept alien TV transmission, this will totally influence our human culture but imagine if we intercept alien porn or something. Imagine if aliens just for fun will send us the picture of their asshole, and some humans receive that photo of alien asshole a s will try to find some deep meaning in it and start worshipping this asshole, place alien asshole on flags and merchandise and t-shirts, we will all be surrounded by images of alien asshole just because it happened to be the first transmission we recirve from aliens
Fucking end me if this happens

[Anonymous No.14501716]

>>14501697
Fuck human culture, it's always been a shitfest.
I wanna see those quadruple ayy tiddies and that spicy blue ayyussy!

[Anonymous No.14502345]

>>14501429
if you believe that aliens would be friendly to humans then you are denying evolution. it's really that simple

[Anonymous No.14502354]

>>14501652
Sagan = idiot. No reputable scientist ever quotes that loon.

[Anonymous No.14502479]

>>14501429
>imagine asking some /sci/ incel what they think about anything
that would be a beta move

[Anonymous No.14502623]

It's real

[Anonymous No.14502679]

>>14502345
burger education

[Anonymous No.14502681]

>>14501521
never thought about that, you're completely right

[Anonymous No.14502683]

>>14502679
Burger or not, he's objectively correct: evolution guarantees that pacifist organisms will always get culled by aggressive organism. Intelligence and rationality have absolutely no bearing on willingness to annihilate others for fun and profit; it would merely ensure that an intelligent aggressor won't engage in a violent conflict unless the chances of winning are high, the downsides of losing are tolerable, and the payoff is worth it.

[Anonymous No.14502685]

>>14502345
Yeah "dark forest" whatever. They'd also be intelligent, and aware of the discrepancy between the rate at which suitable conditions for life are created + life evolving vs the time it takes for sentient societies to develop. In all likelyhood the difference in technology means that the action of the weaker party is entirely irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.14502698]

>>14502683
>and the payoff is worth it.
what kind of payoff do you get rolling over an anthill?

[bodhi No.14502716]

>>14501521
all higher beings have emotions. Even some reptiles, who could be said to be some of the lowest lifeforms, appear to display emotions and in the ones that dont hormones replace them as "triggers" so to speak for maternal instincts etc to keep them from eating their own offspring.

There is no reason to think any high intellect race of aliens wouldnt possess emotions. What possible evolutionary advantage could it offer? Zero, any high intellect race is going to require high investment parenting with long adolescence/learning periods that will need to be subsidized by an invested populace/society, not just the parents

[Anonymous No.14502722]

>>14502683
>evolution guarantees that pacifist organism will always get culled by aggressive organism
Looks like you confused your high school time with evolution again. This is so obviously untrue I can't believe you let yourself write that shit.

[Anonymous No.14502734]

>>14502722
Looks like you're an NPC sharting out generic lines but can't actually refute anything. :^)

[Anonymous No.14502736]

>>14502698
None, which is why you don't often see intelligent creatures rolling over an anthill for no reason. Were you trying to argue something?

[Anonymous No.14502775]

>>14502716
>all higher beings have emotions.

What is your sample size? only 1 species from planet Earth? Use same logic and all higher beings in the Universe must look like humans with same eyes, legs, fingers, tits, penises and vaginas.
The Universe has human face, like the idea of the human must be encoded in the laws of physics to all intelliget life always develop to the human form and human brain with emotions
Emotions are the feature of our brain chemistry, you know. Different chemistry possibly means no emotions or emotions so different we wouldn't even call these phenomena emotions because they will have nothing in common with our emotions

[Anonymous No.14502779]

The whole Kardashev scale thing is the single most cringe inducing sci fi bullshit I've ever heard.
Every time one of the popsci niggers mentions it I want to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.14502801]

>>14502736
that there's no payoff

[Anonymous No.14502805]

>>14501429
SETI won't be able to send a signal to a meaningful number of systems in our lifetime. Maybe if they keep listening an alien virus will infect our computers and kill us all. Most likely nothing will happen, which is the way I like it. The less life in the universe, the greater anthropic chance humanity has to survive.

[Anonymous No.14502808]

>>14502801
For that specific thing? Yeah. What does it have to do with anything I said? You sound psychotic.

[Anonymous No.14502819]

>>14502808
There's no payoff for an incredibly advanced interstellar civilization to wipe out a primitive one like ours.

[Anonymous No.14502827]

>>14502819
I don't know that, and neither do you. Regardless, the point still stands that they are unlikely to be any more pacifistic or benevolent than humans. Pacifists get wiped out by warlike competitors. If advanced alien civilizations exist, you better hope there's nothing around here that they want for themselves, and that we wouldn't offend their aesthetic sense the way a cockroach infestation in the kitchen offends ours.

[Anonymous No.14502838]

The biggest problem with SETI is like with any field in knowledge - a lot of people have strong opinions and believe they are right and they don't want to listen to anyone's else opinion because how there can be any other opinions other than the one, the right one, the one that I hold?
So I must just scream my opinion the loudest and ignore whatever other people are saying. You all should sing praises to my only right opinion and your worthless false non-opinions do not deserve my attention.

[Anonymous No.14502841]

i don't want them lighting a beacon to potentially point out where we are to potential threats in the universe.

[Anonymous No.14502843]

>>14502827
>I don't know that, and neither do you
Everything we're doing here is pure speculation based on what little we know.
> the point still stands that they are unlikely to be any more pacifistic or benevolent than humans.
Who are quite happy to protect the existence of rare animal species to entertain their curiosity, and sentitent lifeforms are likely very rare based on what we can see so far.

[Anonymous No.14502867]

>>14502819
The pay-off ia not something objective. What is the pay off for sacrifice or the ritual or scientific paper about interstellar gas? A lot of pay offs in our society are social so society rewards you for art for example or for excelling in some field like sports or speed running. Does beating some record or climbing the highest mountain pay off objectively, do you find gold on mount Everest? No, it's social.
The alien society could have weird social reward loops for activity we find reprehensible.

[Anonymous No.14502868]

>>14502843
>based on what little we know.
You know nothing about how advanced an imaginary alien civilization is, or what its values might be, but we do know something about how likely a pacifist civilization is to evolve (protip: not very likely).

>quite happy to protect the existence of rare animal species to entertain their curiosity,
We are also quite happy to eradicate critters that slightly rub us the wrong way, not that it matters, because you're projecting your human sensibilities onto some hypothetical alien creature based on zero knowledge, and for no reason whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.14502894]

A lot of assumptions about Alien civilisations are based on some ideas that didn't even happen on our planet. Like they always assume that aliens will be like one United Civilisation because forever we predicted unification of Earth. But that didn't happen on Earth, there are different countries and how can we assume that aliens will all be United if we as humans don't even prove that planetary unification idea is possible? For all we know aliens could be like us - 1000 different countries and cultures on 1 planet all fighting for their own interest and they all could tell their own versions of their planet history with their own bad guys like nazis and jews and the good guys like serbs and koreans on our planet are.
Or another stupid idea is that Dyson sphere. No one knows why the fuck this shit is needed, but at the same time everyone pretends that this is something everyone needs.

[Anonymous No.14502902]

>>14502894
>how can we assume that aliens will all be United if we as humans don't even prove that planetary unification idea is possible?
Because if they don't embrace le heckin' one world government, they will end up destroying themselves using their advanced technology, and we know that can't happen because that implies there are no hyper-advanced civilizations out there and this contradicts my assumption that they exist, mmmmkayyyyy??

[Anonymous No.14502917]

>>14502867
>Does beating some record or climbing the highest mountain pay off objectively, do you find gold on mount Everest?
It's a relatively difficult task (or is perceived as such).
It's entirely possible they could behave this way but there's no clear reason why that would be the norm.
>>14502868
>We are also quite happy to eradicate critters that slightly rub us the wrong way
if they are commonplace and unremarkable, and when they occupy the same space we do. once we move in and decide they're a nuisance we wipe them out, but there's no victory lap.
>pacifist
not aggressively hostile when there's no obvious advantage
>because you're projecting your human sensibilities onto some hypothetical alien creature based on zero knowledge,
You're dismissing the only source of information we have on sentient, technologically developing animals in favor of some superficial bro-science tier argument about evolution.
If and when they find some SETI dweeb's message they'll be amused for a while and then stop caring. If our planet looks like a promising place to settle then our attempts at interacting with them or lack thereof are irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.14502924]

>>14502917
>if they are commonplace and unremarkable
What makes you think you are remarkable to your imaginary hyper-advanced aliens, and that their sense of scale is the same as yours? Again, not that any of this is relevant, since there is no rational justification for projecting human sensibilities in the first place.

>not aggressively hostile when there's no obvious advantage
You keep reiterating that strawman as if anyone argued advanced alien civiliatons are necessarily a bunch of niggers. I never argued that; I'm just telling you they will have no qualms about destroying other forms of life if it suits them. Better hope their alien thought process and alien values don't lead them to some rational (in their context) but unfortunate (for you) conclusions.

>You're dismissing the only source of information we have on sentient, technologically developing animals
N=1.

>in favor of some superficial bro-science tier argument about evolution.
It's objective, empirically testable, mathematically-backed reality that you reject for emotional reasons. Anyway, popsoi cult members are unwelcome here. Try >>>/r/science

[Anonymous No.14502928]

>>14502917
What is the "norm" for the behaviour of interstellar civilisation? Can we establish the "norm " based on the assumption of one civilisation that didn't even reach another planet and haven't been to the Moon in 50 years? Or can we establish the norm after meeting 1 interstellar civilisation? What if the first civilisation we meet will be unique but we decide that all other civilisation are same as this one unique civilisation establishing the norm based on the anecdote? How many civilisations we must encounter in a galaxy to establish a norm and how stupid must we be to talk about the norm of interstellar civilisation behaviour without encountering even a single one of such civilisations?
What if Qu is the norm?

[Anonymous No.14503430]

>>14502779
The Dyson sphere and Terraforming is just as cringe