[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 94 KB, 425x321, www.themoderndaypirates.com__0116.bioshock_city_rapture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1425728 No.1425728 [Reply] [Original]

Descibe the perfect society

>> No.1425734

solution Does not Exist

>> No.1425738

A place where no one suffers, technology and medicine can prosper and all people are under one flag living in peace and harmony......not what you were expecting?

>> No.1425753

Utopia? Sure, just destroy all energy matter and other things that have do and wille exist. Then there will be uniform nothing. Perfect in every way since the concept won't even exist.

>> No.1425751

lol should have thought about this question, I WANT DETAILS

>> No.1425765
File: 58 KB, 600x522, 400000slapshit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1425765

http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

>> No.1425793

>>1425765

>Get a job at McDonalds
>Computer tells you to do anything
>Become a zombie
>Get fired by same computer
>Realize you can't live your life without Manna assisting you and guiding your every step
>Die alone and unhappy with a diaper on your face while fapping to pictures of Ayn Rand

Nah just kidding <3

>> No.1425797

>>1425793
>Ayn Rand
She's a bitch.

>> No.1425798

Marxism done through proper democracy.

>> No.1425815

>>1425797

She's my girlfriend.

>> No.1425827
File: 19 KB, 288x358, Ayn_Rand1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1425827

>>1425815

Is her penis as big as they say it is?

>> No.1425838

>>1425827

Oh yes.

>> No.1425851

What's wrong with Rand?

Also, a perfect society would be one without individuality; where the minds of the individual are subsumed into the collective. There would be no discord, no disturbances, for all would be in concurrence in thought, action, belief.

Inb4Borg

>> No.1425870

>>1425851
>Whats wrong with Rand?
>Radical collectivist rhetoric

You should know better than anybody.

>> No.1425898

>>1425870

Meh, I like Rand. However, an organization where all citizens share the same beliefs, opinions, ideals, hopes, drives, desires, etc. would function without discord, as long as those goals were harmonious as a whole.

A Borg style collective would be even more so, as there would not even be individuals. A single entity with a million million fingers, eyes, and ears, with which to manipulate the world is vastly greater a being.

These things are impossible, though. Perfection is something that just doesn't exist in natural terms.

>> No.1425902

>>1425851
>What's wrong with Rand?
Ask /lit/, they love that subject.
Or just look at the rules of /lit/.
Seriously.

>> No.1425922

>>1425902

Been to /lit/. I've read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. Everyone seems to describe her like she was some malevolent she-demon, though.

>> No.1425930

>>1425922

If you're far enough left, she is the Antichrist.

>> No.1425960

>>1425930

I suppose so, but as someone who believes strongly in individual rights, I find a rapport with her writing.

>> No.1425981

Everything is run by AI and humans just have sex and play video games.

>> No.1425983

>>1425960

Individual rights and 'economic rights' do not go hand in hand.

The free market is free only in theory. In reality, it is dominated by corporate behemoths whose tentacles reach deep into society, and suppress individual rights of the common man (for example, perversion of copyright law by media giants and censorship by google) in the name of monetary gain.

>> No.1425989
File: 11 KB, 192x219, imokaywiththis.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1425989

>>1425981
As long as weed is legal. If you're gonna he hedonistic, might as well go all in.

>> No.1425995

>>1425989

Also, free ice cream!

>> No.1426002

>>1425995
Fuck yeah. And everybody is required to wipe their asses with Ayn Rand "novels".

>> No.1426013

>>1425983

No individual rights are suppressed by services having certain goals. If I run an advertisement business and refuse to run an ad I find promotes something I feel is immoral, no-one's rights are infringed upon. That is, as long as I'm a private business, not government-enhanced or owned.

Same goes for Google censorship. Copyright law, though, is another story and a more complex argument altogether, especially when one gets into details like copyrighting genes or drugs. We could have a very interesting discussion over that.

That said, a perfectly free market would have no copyright law.

>> No.1426032

Post-scarcity utopia.

Automation advances to the point where labor is no longer required. The upper classes wipe out most of Earth's population with combat drones in order to eliminate competition for land. Fusion reactors provide limitless free energy. Genetic engineering eliminates aging and disease.

The few million people left alive live forever in a perfect decadent paradise, doing whatever they wish.

>> No.1426042

>>1425728
>>1425981
oh my science i lol'd

>> No.1426068

>>1426032
people need aspirations...if they have everything they want from birth what is there to look forward to?

>> No.1426070

>>1426032
Suddenly, Robot sentience!

Robot Sentience everywhere!

>> No.1426071

>>1426032

I could see this happening.

>> No.1426076

>>1426068
look at Paris Hilton and other trust fund baby types.

>Born with everything, destroy self

>> No.1426085

Brave New World. Ignorance is bliss.

>> No.1426092

>>1426071
This would be a cool setting for a book/movie/game, set during the time in which the Elites begin their war on the commoners.

>cue that guy from firefly playing the rebel leader

>> No.1426094

>>1426070
Robot sentience isn't possible unless you design a robot capable of becoming sentient. Don't do that.

Besides, we don't know HOW to make a sentient robot, even if for some reason we wanted to.

>> No.1426102

>>1426013

The companies have so much control over every aspect of society, that this censorship does make a difference. If someone wants to get a message out that no advertising company will run, and the advertising companies are the only window to the public view, there is something very wrong going on.

>> No.1426107

>>1426094
Just build a robot that is capable of building smarter robots.

Pandora's Box
[] --- Closed
[X] --- Open

>> No.1426114

One run by Multivac.
Problem solved.

>> No.1426116

>>1426094
Quantum computations could one day resemble the abstract thought of the human brain.

And all it would take is one guy with a god complex.

>> No.1426131

>>1426116
>one guy with a god complex

Kim Jong Il. But he doesn't have access to the latest technology... Oh wait. Fuck.

>> No.1426142

>>1426131
North Korea is Best Korea.

>> No.1426153

>>1426142
Kim Jong-Il eagerly awaits the Justin Bieber concert.

>> No.1426155

In Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, the science guy (You know the only one who was bro-tier in that game), said something along the lines of:

"Start with an algorithm of arbitrary complexity. Get the results, and feed them back. These are the principles of sentience."

So I thought "A feedback loop. Cool. I just need a function that gets called often and a loop! Now what do I put in the for(;;) function..."

I've been asking myself that question for the last week. Maybe I'm not looking at it the right way, but AI is probably a dead-end EXCEPT brain simulations like the Blue Gene project, which requires the tech we'll have thanks to good old Moore's Law. But I could be wrong, I'm not an expert or anything.

But true AI is... Maybe too hard. The question will be resolved in our lifetimes anyways.

>> No.1426164

Communism...true Communism..

>> No.1426178

>>1426155
At least I'll be dead by the time the robot rebellion starts, eh?

>> No.1426182

>>1426164

See:

>>1425798

>> No.1426208

>>1426178
See >>1424956

You're going to be here a loooonnnng time unless you kill yourself.

>> No.1426212

>>1425798
square peg done through round hole.

>> No.1426216

poster of >>1426164 here

>>1426182

Yep,thats what I meant

>> No.1426247

>>1425728
Aldous huxley has already done it for me.

>> No.1426269
File: 102 KB, 474x616, marx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1426269

Communism but it will never happen ... never :(

>> No.1426292

>>1426212

Nope. Marxism must arise from the unity of the people. The Soviets ALMOST had it right, until they decided that they would deny logic and decide that the people's will is best expressed through a dictator, and not from the people themselves.

Stalin tried to force ideals upon the people instead of letting these ideals develop catalyzed by true socialism. Stalin's iron fisted atrocities were worse than the subtle evils he was trying to dispel, and the system fell in on itself.

Now we have the widespread misconception that communism is an inherent evil based upon authoritarian brutality, so people are quick to dispel anything but the capitalist methods, where any good is a mere byproduct of the scramble for monetary gain.

I weep for the world.

>> No.1426295

>>1426102
Is there not an implicit censorship in any capitalist society? Do people without money have outlet for their voice that will influence anyone?

>> No.1426300

What I liked about brave new world is that it values sterilisation and cleanliness and abhors the disgusting principle of viviparous reproduction. Honestly, we'll grow out of that. Recreational sex is awesome, though

>> No.1426313

>>1426300
brave new world is the most logical society, i'd just hope to be alpha plus.

>> No.1426319

>>1426292
I weep for idealistic faggots who latch on to Communism as some sort of rallying point for their disaffection. It's a flawed system in reality, it will only work in theory no matter who is running the system.

>> No.1426333

>>1426295

Yes, this is an inherent fault of capitalism. Democracy itself is dying because the only people who can reasonably run for office are the rich, who only represent the interests of the top 2%.

You're preaching to the choir; I'm a radical leftist.

>> No.1426335

>>1426313
Stupid of them to not get rid of the Savage Reservations though. Didn't make sense, if they wanted proper stability they would HAVE to extinct everyone not in compliance with the World State. Same shit in Orwell 1984, the proles just pose a fucking incertitude to the government. why keep them?

>> No.1426345

>>1426319

You refute none of my points, and instead call me a faggot. You say it's flawed, but you fail to say why it's flawed.

>> No.1426350

>>1426292
I think what you are trying to describe is Anarchist Socialism. Marxism is a political theory with the goal of establishing the social system of communism. Marx argued that communism would occur after socialists took over the state and slowly ate away at capitalism.

Mikhail Bakunin, and fellow Anarchist Socialists. argued that the process of establishing Communism through the state was doomed from its inception. Bakunin argued that a state that had enough power to establish socialism would inevitably become totalitarian. This view was prescient in light of what we know about the Soviet Union. The Anarchist Socialists believed that a mass popular uprising of the people, with the goal in mind of abolishing class and possession, was the only real way to establish Communism.

>> No.1426372

>>1426345
Consider this:
I am a brain surgeon who sacrificed years of his life to hone my craft. There are very few people who can do the job I do. You are a garbage man, your menial labor can be accomplished by anyone. We will both get paid the same amount because it is for the greater good of society. Neither of us will complain because we are dedicated 100% to the betterment of our country. I will work infinitely harder than you and have nothing to show for it, but I will never complain.

Gosh, sounds realistic to me.

>> No.1426407

>>1426372

Not same fag, but other commiefag. Consider this. In Communism there is no possession or money or class. Your reward for being smarter than me would be multitudinous. People would respect you for being so smart and doing so much good for society. Bitches would bang you for that reason instead of the size of your bank account. I honestly think that, in a Communist society, scientists, mathematicians, engineers etc. would get more pussy and accolades than athletes, as athletic skill is not necessary for human survival/dna replication any more.

>> No.1426415

>>1426372

The idea that one's labor is more valuable than another's is a fabrication. The transition from capitalism to communism is an overall change in mindset, where people don't work for the false betterment of themselves through acquirement of wealth, which is self destructive in and of itself, but for the betterment of society as a whole.

>> No.1426431

>>1426372
This is why people say communism would work in the perfect society, but since there is no such thing, you would have to be crazy to promote communism in the real world.

>> No.1426436 [DELETED] 
File: 147 KB, 1280x1024, BYD_S8_2010_BYD_Photo_2010.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1426436

CHINESE CARS > USA CARS TODAY,

China's Automobile competition is Japan today, USA is pretty much dead in technology while China lurks as the #1 HACKER & CRACKER nation.

Want more evidence? Send a message to AIM: WungDu

good game Discuss on.

>> No.1426446

>>1426436

OH SHIT, 4chan now has the fucking government of China spamming it.

>> No.1426453

What government?

>> No.1426468

>>1426431

Communism doesn't make sense with a capitalist world view, where profit is the end all.

Just as we are groomed to believe the ideals that make our society work today, we would be groomed with different ideals to make communist society; ideals of social development and brotherhood, not ideals of greed and predatory ambition.

>> No.1426487

>>1426468
Communism doesn't make sense with a world made up of individuals, each with their own thoughts and goals.
fixed it for you.

>> No.1426488

>>1426415
lol, it's not a fabrication. A brain surgeon works infinitely harder and deals with far more stress than a garbage man, that point cannot be refuted.
People work for a reason, to be rewarded. If the only reward for working your ass off is a miniscule betterment of society, the odds are you'll become disillusioned.

You've already proven why communism doesn't work in reality. Like you said, it requires everyone working towards and only towards the betterment of their society. Selflessness is not a trait commonly found in humanity and it's not something you can just beat in to people's skulls.

I'll read your next reply but I don't intend to take this argument any further because it ultimately boils down to Communist supporters stating "If only people were perfect, If only they weren't so obsessed with material wealth, if only...". I like communism in theory, but it is not practical. It goes against human nature and the vast majority of people who cling to Communism these days are like you; disaffected with the status quo and maybe harboring a bit of a superiority complex ("I weep for humanity"...If only we could see the genius light like you do! Show us, oh great one!)

>> No.1426536

>>1426487

Communist society promotes individuality more than capitalist society. Without profit being the primary driving force in life, people can focus on the arts and the less applicable sciences. Joy would not be derived from fetishist acquisition of luxury goods, but from interactions with peers.

>>1426488

We're approaching a point where we have to agree to disagree. I say that selfishness arises from our surroundings and how we're influenced, we're 'molded' to believe that the pursuit of wealth is the goal in life from an early age.

Really our dispute lies with human psychology.

>> No.1426575

>>1426536
I can agree to disagree, the argument has certainly been done to death by men much smarter than us.

For posterity's sake, though...If we were to hypothetically continue and carry this argument into the realm of psychology, I'd have to say that while I do believe modern society enhances and even encourages selfish behavior, it's my opinion that it is a mere facet of human nature that has emerged in all aspects of history and in all manners of society, be they materialistic or not.

>holy shit long sentence.

>> No.1426585

Communism will only work for robots or clones.
Capitilism sucks, but it works.
/thread

>> No.1426592

>>1426585

I like how you just jump in without reading other posts and declare /thread with a point already made.

>> No.1426608

>>1426592
just summing up all other posts, which i did read btw.

>> No.1426642

>>1426536
>Communist society promotes individuality more than capitalist society.
um no, it doesn't, the point in Communist societies, as you refer to lower, is that humans can be crushed into interchangeable units.

>I say that selfishness arises from our surroundings and how we're influenced, we're 'molded' to believe that the pursuit of wealth is the goal in life from an early age.
This defies pretty much all observable data in human, primate, and lower animal studies, what's funny is this idea is directly lifted from early renaissance Christfagotry. Then again the prekeynesian economics the vast majority socialists still cling to was largely developed by a monk in the 17th century.

>> No.1426716

>>1426642

Humans are only interchangeable in an economic sense. Individuality in capitalist society is everybody chasing the same goal aggressively; it's an expression of who's willing to do what and how far are they willing to go for profit? In communist society, the profit motive is dropped, and people can delve into the humanities and scholarly interests.

As for your next point, humans aren't animals. In communist society, you wouldn't need to seek material gain, because all needs are fulfilled, and material gain doesn't give inherent advantage.

At this point, I'm going to stop responding, because all of these arguments sound like a broken record to me, and I'm sure I sound like a broken record to you.

Let's agree to disagree; capitalist ideology has won the world over anyways.

>> No.1426761

>>1426716
I've been hearing the exactly the same rhetoric since middle school. Communism is merely neochristfagotry, dressed with more 'Science!' iconography, but the same "your life comes from and belongs to the central abstract core! Obedience is freedom, the chains are love!" bullshit.
And yeah humans are animals.

>> No.1426772

oxymoron?

>> No.1426798

>>1426772
Really, it's interesting how much people obsess over the notion there is some perfect way to organize humanity into a convenient deterministic machine, when a review of human development indicates there is no reason to believe its possible.

>> No.1426799

>>1426761

I promised myself I wouldn't respond anymore, but you pissed me off. If you're a troll, congratulations.

>neochristfagotry

No, you ass. Communism is about rejection of the supernatural, emphasis on humanity as a whole.

>Obedience is freedom, the chains are love!

I'm not talking about Nineteen-Eighty-Four brand Stalinism. I'm talking about democratic Marxism, something that arises in the name of the people, by the people. Being unable to better yourself by exploiting others isn't 'chaining you up,' it's about preventing you from chaining others up.

Humans are animals, but they are special. We rose the pillars of civilization through communal effort. We have rational minds from which we create lasting achievements.

Fuck you and you nihilism.

>> No.1426811

Any society that is forward-thinking.

>> No.1426874

>>1426799
Humans aren't special, but we do have rational minds and the ability of forsight. This alone should dictate that we don't need material wealth as encouragement for our achievements. I agree with you just not about us being special. We are no more special than bacteria.

>> No.1426956

>>1426799
>rejection of the supernatural
hmm...
>humans aren't animals
riiiiight.

Exploiting others under the guise of democracy is just as bad, 'nine out of ten people enjoy gang rape' doesn’t make it ok, and people work together because they each have their own reasons and have a right to opt out when they don't see a benefit to their goals.
And no, FUUUUUCK YOU and your nihilism, I see a world of wonderful emergent phenomenon and aggregate development driven by the passion and will of the individual.

>> No.1426975

>>1426956
How much individual will is the lower class in a capitalist society able to express?

>> No.1426977

One where everyone is equal but I'm in charge.

>> No.1426998

>>1426975
As much as they are willing to put into it. There are many many options, and many people better themselves.

>> No.1427043

DNE

>> No.1427141

a graveyard

>> No.1427147

Only white people

>> No.1427151

Utopia.

Next.

>> No.1427158

>>1427147
>>1427147
>>1427147
>>1427147
>>1427147
Fucking this