/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.12723945]

>DUDE LIKE, DARK MATTER MAKES UP MOST OF THE MASS IN THE UNIVERSE BRO!!!
>NOOOOOOO, OUR UNDERSTANDING OF GRAVITY ISN'T FLAWED, IT'S MYSTERIOUS PARTICLES OF MY BALL SWEAT THAT'S PREVENTING THE UNIVERSE FROM COLLAPSING IN ON ITSELF
>IT'S A LAW OF NATURE, YOU CAN'T DISPROVE IT, REEEEEE
Is "dark matter" possibly the biggest cope in astronomy? How much longer until astronomers admit that our current understanding of gravity is deeply flawed when scaled to intergalactic distances?

[Anonymous No.12724114]

>>12723945
I remember having the head physicist from Amherst, at the time, give a talk here on physics, cosmosology and other stuff. He wasn't impressed with the arguments at the time and saw it as the aether rehash from the 19thC, this was in the mid naughties so I was wonder if he changed his mind based on the last 15 years of study.

[Anonymous No.12724148]

>>12723945
Different scale different rules, Simple as.

[Anonymous No.12725601]

>>12723945
Dark matter is phlogiston.

[Anonymous No.12725610]

>>12724148
why?

[Anonymous No.12725616]

>>12725610
why is a question for philosophy, not physics

[Anonymous No.12725627]

>>12725610
If nuclear force can push as well as pull, according to distance, why not gravity also?

[Anonymous No.12725804]

>>12725616
Truly some retardation on this board

[Anonymous No.12725815]

>>12723945
Yes

[Anonymous No.12725847]

>>12723945
it's only a model, don't worry about it

[Anonymous No.12725884]

>>12725847
Let us not go to astrophysics Twitter.
'Tis a silly place.

[Anonymous No.12725900]

Yo real talk
What's between the Earth and the Moon?
Don't say "nothing" or "a vacuum", that doesn't make sense, if there's nothing between them then they must be touching. Clearly the Moon is not touching the earth so what lies between them? There must be /something/ since waves like light and other radiation is able to wriggle from their source to the Earth and wherever else, so what the fuck is space made of?

[Anonymous No.12725909]

>>12725900
It is made of a weave of space time giving us distance and shit

[Anonymous No.12725925]

>>12725909
>the universe is weave
nigresses everywhere getting they galactic hair did

[Anonymous No.12725951]

>>12723945

It's a massive cope. And yes, our understanding of gravity is deeply flawed.

[Anonymous No.12726386]

>>12724114
I think it’s at least way too soon to act like it’s a fact.

[Anonymous No.12726402]

>>12723945
NOOOOOOOOOO NTO THE HECKIN DARKMATTERINOS!

[Anonymous No.12726458]

>>12725616
>how?
>>12725847
My brother collects models of Gundams. Where can I find a real one?
>>12725900
>since waves like light
"light" is the visible phenomeena of an electromagnetic waveform yes. Now "Waves" of what? It must be "waves of space" right? Wonder what "Space" is made of? It seems like a misnomer to name something that's actually "filled" as something that implies it's "Spacious".

[Anonymous No.12726473]

String theory predicts a lot of symmetric "partner" matter that only interacts through gravity. That leads me to believe dark matter is probably right.

[Anonymous No.12726525]

>>12726458
That's what I'm asking, my guy. There has to be some sort of medium for the wave to wave around.

[Anonymous No.12726528]

>>12725900
>if there's nothing between them then they must be touching
That's kind of true. All matter is composed of the interactions of massless particles, and massless particles don't experience time or distance. They're an instantaneous expression of a transfer of energy from one part of a causal web to another. This causal web (the universe) doesn't actually posses any dimensionality, just the necessary information needed to extrapolate that dimensionality and generate a 4D image of a universe. The universe is a volumeless, timeless point that has an "internal" causal structure which describes the sum of all interactions within it.

[Anonymous No.12726548]

>>12723945
Reminder that this could very easily just be an observational error since we haven’t confirmed it except in an utterly insignificant tiny fraction of only this galaxy.

[Anonymous No.12726555]

>>12726548
In other words, a whole lot of astronomy is subject to revision until we do a lot more exploration and Breakthrough Starshot is based.

[Anonymous No.12726558]

>>12726528
Fuck off
>>>/lit/

[Anonymous No.12726592]

>>12726528
ridiculous response which I will immediately forget you wrote, but you haven't answered my question

[Anonymous No.12726602]

>>12726558
Tell me how it's wrong
>>12726592
I did, if you could read. Objects are separated only by causal "distance," the space between them is entirely virtual.

[Anonymous No.12726611]

>>12723945
But you see ....
Dark matter existence is caused of the unexplained of the mind

[Anonymous No.12726809]

the fact that anti-science shills pick on dark matter just shows how scientifically illiterate and innumerate you all are. it’s one of the most clearly demonstrated things in astrophysics. there’s the rotation gun and the observations of galaxies with much less or much more dark matter than typical and there’s a fucking “smoking gun” called the bullet cluster. there are also clear indications in the CMB.

there are plenty of other things you could pick on physics for. like take for example the fact that the measurements of the hubble constant disagree between different experiments, or the fact that all the textbooks on heavy element generation had to be rewritten when the first neutron star merger was studied carefully. but no, the uneducated idiots don’t understand that and whine about something that isn’t even controversial.

[Anonymous No.12726813]

>>12726809
>rotation gun
*rotation curve

[Anonymous No.12726815]

>>12726809
>the fact that anti-science shills pick on dark matter just shows how scientifically illiterate and innumerate you all are
There is no empirical evidence of "dark matter".
>it’s one of the most clearly demonstrated things in astrophysics
No. It's one of the most unobservable one.
>bullet cluster
How does the buller cluster prove the existence of "dark matter"?

[Anonymous No.12726823]

>>12723945
there has to be a hole, though. a sucking hole and you can't escape it. we need one of those.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/naL7urXXZLfl/

[Anonymous No.12726856]

>>12726815
wow dude, do i really need to explain it to you? the bullet cluster is an image of two clusters that recently collided and are undergoing a merger. what they did was they looked at the stars of the cluster to see where they were, and then they analyzed the gravitational lensing of the stuff in the background to see where the majority of the gravitational “stuff” (whatever that may be hint hint) was located

what they found was that the stars of the clusters that collided basically stuck together a bit at the impact point, but the gravitational lensing observations showed that there were two big blobs that looked as if they also passed through the collision point but didn’t get “stuck” like the stars.

this is exactly what you would expect in a dark matter model. ordinary matter that stars are made of can hit each other and interact electromagnetically which would dissipate energy and slow them down so they stick together more and merge more quickly. dark matter on the other hand only interacts very weakly (perhaps only gravitationally) so they don’t feel much of an impact and fly on right through the impact point without getting stuck. this is exactly what you see looking at the bullet cluster picture. it’s smoking smoking to high heavens

[Anonymous No.12726913]

>>12726809
Cool. So explain dark energy.

[Anonymous No.12726936]

>>12726913
dark energy is absolutely way more mysterious than dark matter, admittedly. however, the current understanding of it relates it to the energy of the vacuum in quantum field theory. in laymen’s terms, basically you could think about some process where a rock or some nuts or whatever are just rolling downhill to the lowest point, but whether they get stuck in a crevace at 10 feet above sea level or whether they make it right to sea level or whether they take a deep dive below sea level. this is sort of how the universe “settles down” and decides what it’s vacuum energy is. where it settles down is called the “vacuum state”. if it settles above “sea level” then we have positive dark energy and it causes the universe to expand faster and faster over time. if it stops right at sea level then there is no dark energy and it goes into free fall, and if it is below sea level then things want to curl up more and more over time. so what we see after all is that things appear to be expanding faster and faster so we do have positive dark energy

if you want a better more technical explanation i recommend this:
http://shortbus.org/x/p3305_1.pdf

[Anonymous No.12726938]

>>12726856
>wow dude, do i really need to explain it to you?
explain what? Where is this "stuff" you're explaining?

>the bullet cluster is an image of two clusters that recently collided and are undergoing a merger. what they did was they looked at the stars of the cluster to see where they were, and then they analyzed the gravitational lensing of the stuff in the background to see where the majority of the gravitational “stuff” was located
"Gravity" is a description of mass accelerating, so I'm assuming that "gravitational stuff" is "mass" right?

(whatever that may be hint hint)
Mass? Okay so what makes it so special that it needs a classification such as "dark"? Why is it "dark"?

>what they found was that the stars of the clusters that collided basically stuck together a bit at the impact point, but the gravitational lensing observations showed that there were two big blobs that looked as if they also passed through the collision point but didn’t get “stuck” like the stars.
...And that means what?

>ordinary matter that stars are made of can hit each other and interact electromagnetically which would dissipate energy and slow them down so they stick together more and merge more quickly.
But magnets repel too.

>dark matter on the other hand only interacts very weakly (perhaps only gravitationally) so they don’t feel much of an impact and fly on right through the impact point without getting stuck
Okay so can I please have some "dark matter" to observe instead of a digital render? Can we "test" some of it to make sure it exists instead of chasing what could just be a shadow?

[Anonymous No.12726946]

>>12723945
Dark matter literally doesn't matter cause it cant interact with actually matter.
Is science racist?

[Anonymous No.12726980]

>>12726938
what makes it “dark” is that whatever it is, it is not interacting electromagnetically so it doesn’t interact with light so we don’t see it. maybe a better term is “clear matter” or “transparent matter” in terms of how one sees it, but it would also be somewhat ghostly in that your hand would pass right through it since the feeling of a rock being hard or a liquid being viscous or wind giving resistance is all from electromagnetic interactions, so dark matter would be imperceptible to touch.

it getting “stuck” is basically this. normal solid or liquid or gas matter you can stop with your hand and trap it. you can’t do that with dark matter.

>magnets
maybe consult ICP on that one. irrelevant.

with regards to you ordering a box of dark matter, again we hit the problem where it is quite ghostly and it flies through any box undetectably. i am getting the real strong impression that you have absolutely no clue about what you are trying to talk about

[Anonymous No.12727005]

>>12726980
>what makes it “dark” is that whatever it is, it is not interacting electromagnetically so it doesn’t interact with light so we don’t see it.
So you don't actually know what it is.

>it is not interacting electromagnetically so it doesn’t interact with light so we don’t see it.
So it's literally a fucking shadow then. You're chasing a goddamn shadow.

>it getting “stuck” is basically this. normal solid or liquid or gas matter you can stop with your hand and trap it. you can’t do that with dark matter.
You can't do that with a fucking shadow either. But you see it so it must exist right?

>again we hit the problem where it is quite ghostly and it flies through any box undetectably. i am getting the real strong impression that you have absolutely no clue about what you are trying to talk about.
I am not getting an impression you don't know what you're talking about. You're just flat out telling me you don't.