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/sci/ - Science & Math

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12693086 No.12693086 [Reply] [Original]

Muh Fermi Paradox

>> No.12693090

Why does "human" radio broadcast matter? There should be civilizations millions of years older than ours whom we should be able to detect.

>> No.12693091

>>12693086
Holy shit. You don't realize how insignificant our solar system is until you see shit like this.

>> No.12693096

>>12693090
Perhaps intelligent life is just way harder to evolve than we thought.
Why does it have to evolve if all that matters is survival and not space colonization?

>> No.12693101

>>12693090
Because it makes it painfully clear how primitive our current technology level is. There could be an identical civilization as ours on the closest exoplanet (Proxima B), and we have no way of detecting them. Our current technology is meme tier. There is no paradox.

>> No.12693114

>>12693090
Detect them how? With what tech? Are you talking about looking for Dyson Spheres/Swarms? Total meme.

>> No.12693122

>>12693101
This. Let alone the fact that we are seeing the past as well. There could be huge inter galactic civilization cloaked behind the 200 million year old light we are looking at.

>> No.12693136

>>12693090
The only current way we have to "detect" them is by looking for megastructures causing gravitational anomalies around stars, like Dyson Spheres.

Not only is our current technology a joke, but we also have the hubris to confidently state that super advanced civilizations will use a certain type of technology. It's madness. This is why our current scientific structure is failing us. Unbelievable arrogance.

>> No.12693145

>>12693136
All evidence in our current technological advancement points to evolving inward, and getting smaller. Why build an inefficient Dyson sphere, when a super advanced civilization could create their own stars.

>> No.12693175

>>12693101
Radio is too perfect to not be used by anyone in this universe. It's more likely that intelligent life is a freak anomaly and very rare. Anytime between tomorrow and the next 5 billion years we may wake up to a radio wave explosion

>> No.12693177

A reminder that there could be a large planet after the Neptune and we will not know.

>> No.12693184

>>12693145
I agree with this.
The human concept of colonizing everything is very primitive. If we ever get smart enough to replace ourselves with machines we may be happy to be baseball sized borg floating in space, knowing almost everything.
Faster than light travel is impossible so why go when you can look?

>> No.12693214

>>12693090
This. Science proves that God created us alone in a dead universe for some peverse reason. Copernican principle is falsified.

>> No.12693216

>>12693214
A prime example of absence of evidence being used as evidence of absence.

>> No.12693257

>>12693090
Maximally compressed data looks like random noise to someone who doesn't know what they're looking at. They'd have to be sending a signal they'd want someone stupider to find.

>> No.12693264

>>12693175
We wouldn't be able to hear them over the cosmic microwave background, unless it was ultra focused, and beamed directly to us.

The Fermi Paradox is equivalent to taking a cup of seawater, and declaring Dolphins don't exist. There would be life in the cup though, just like there could be life on the moons of our solar system. Our current technology is so primitive, that we can't confirm or eliminate the possibility of it.

>> No.12693284

>>12693090
Observation selection effect. Our civilization would have had to rise at a very specific time for us to be able to detect expansionist alien civilizations.
https://www.overcomingbias.com/2021/01/why-we-cant-see-grabby-aliens.html

>> No.12693287

>>12693101
There is every reason to be believe that very advanced species still emit EM waves we could detect.

>> No.12693561

it's not even paradox and also has tons of holes in it. Everytime someone brings Fermi Paradox unironically i know he's a retard.

>> No.12693800

>>12693287
What reasons are those? Also how would we be able to detect these? We would be mostly limited to those from millions of years ago. Seems ridiculous that a technologically primitive civilization like ours would be able to confidently assume anything of a super advanced civilization.

>> No.12693807

There's an upper bound to technology there is no such thing as a dyson sphere or a giant space empire or artificial super intelligence. They don't exist.

>> No.12693827

>>12693091
And it is JUST one Galaxy of a few gorillion

>> No.12693832

People dont understand how fucking insane our universe is.

For every grain of sand on every beach on Earth, there are 10,000 stars

And 500 quintillion, or 500 billion billion sun-like stars

A recent PNAS study suggests there’s a potentially-habitable Earth-like planet orbiting at least 1% of the total stars in the universe, over 100 billion billion Earth-like planets

Which means 100 Earth-like planets for every grain of sand in the world

...

>> No.12693855

>>12693086
Nobody's going to visit a poisoned planet.

>> No.12693860

>>12693832
>Which means 100 Earth-like planets for every grain of sand in the world

This broke my brain

>> No.12693863

>>12693807
Yet

>> No.12693884

One solution to the Fermi paradox that isn’t talked about it that interstellar travel is simply impossible for any civilisation to accomplish. Since the enlightenment we’ve assumed progress is inevitable, but the limits of the earths resources likely mean we’ll probably have a stagnation/regression

>> No.12693905

>>12693175
an intelligent life form that "saw" or sensed radio waves would probably never use electricity, nor radio waves.

>> No.12693919

>>12693090
Because radio waves lose their information content after a light year
Plus, we've only been broadcasting for 100 years so the first radio waves only reached out a 100 lightyears

Rare Earth might be the best explanation as it took 4 billion years to achieve enough complexity to produce a species capable of producing and understanding technology and civilization. We have 2 other earth like planets next to us that died 3.5 billion years ago, habitable planets may be relatively numerous but most of them don't stay habitable enough to develop complex life, combine this with shear informational distance and the difficulty of interstellar communications, and you have a good idea of why we have found no signs of civilization

>> No.12693925

>>12693832
Imagine how fascinating each must be. Another civilization wouldn't just invent a guitar, or a saxophone, or a piano. These are mostly likely proprietary to humans.

Music hits a place in your soul. Everything is linked to vibration. What does this mean on a universal level? What if our music is a true universal commodity?

>> No.12693961

>>12693832
And for Humans using high tech speed of light transport it would still be like an ant walking from Montreal, Canada, to Santiago, Chile, just to reach the nearest one.

But lets say they could. And then do what? Wipe out potentially sentient life forms on the new planet? You know they would. Create another 3rd world shitheap that this planet is on course to become? You know they would. Humans are locusts, and the vanishingly few that aren't are insignificant.

So fuck your space babe and Daniel Boone wild frontier fantasy.

>> No.12693978

>>12693832
>>12693919
>>12693925
>>12693961
rebbit

>> No.12693980

>>12693090
We haven't been listening for that long either. So what if 15 million years ago a planet 200 lightyears away sent out pop music for 5.000 years? That signal's now long past us.
The Fermiparadox is no paradox at all if one considers not only the physical but also temporal distances involved.

>> No.12693991

>>12693090
Because we know what to look for, how to look for it, when to look for it. You also assume there are no advanced races that filter out such things around the systems containing primitive life so they can evolve without influence.

>> No.12694010

>>12693991
Why would a space faring civilization go to that much trouble? They didn't grow up with Star Trek...

>> No.12694026

>>12693122
>Cloaked behind the 200 million year old light we are looking at
We look at light thats billions of years old what do you mean?

>> No.12694043
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12694043

>>12693978
>Ribbit

>> No.12694055

>>12694026
He means that the civilization might only be a hundred million years old. So we still have one hundred million years of light to go through.

>> No.12694068

Brainlet here. Can someone explain to me why size is never considered in speed? If there was a person large as a galaxy and they started at the sun, and took one step, their foot would be past Pluto and it would take them 1 second. Wouldn't this action be 100x faster than light?

Is the solution to FTL simply making ourselves as large as possible then shrinking again?

>> No.12694081

>>12694068
I think that's a literal impossible thing to occur due to energy constraints. How would such a mechanism grow to that size, let alone have enough energy to function? If anything, I suspect this would create an upper bound on the size of objects.

>> No.12694085

>>12694068
Inertia, the more mass something has, the harder it is to accelerate it.

Also, there is a speed difference in human bodies too. It takes longer for a nerve signal from the brain to reach the feet of a 2m man than of a 1,5m man. It doesn't manner in human sizes, but does happen.

>> No.12694090

>>12693090
>whom we should be able to detect.
source?

>> No.12694108

>>12694085
The nerve signal taking more time, actually makes sense. I guess that would be the universe's way of stopping this from working

>> No.12694164

>>12694085
Wouldn't everything in the enlarged human body be relative though? The signal shouldn't take any longer, also the energy needed is relative as well, if you enlarge food and water.

I must admit this question has just made me realize that our bodies might truly be vessels.

>> No.12694176

>>12694164
Also if that large it would create time dilation and time would basically stand still

>> No.12694194

>>12694068
An object that large and that massive would significantly dilate time around it. By the time all the signals (quickly) transmit within it to move, the amount of time that elapsed immediately surrounding him would be thousands of times longer, and the time that elapsed farther away, say at Pluto, would be millions of times longer. So no contradiction. By the time this organism has taken one step, due to time dilation from its large mass, millions of years will have elapsed and his effective speed has not violated the speed of light.

>> No.12694201

>>12694068
>>12694176
You just answered your own question.

The enlarged human would take a step and be past pluto in 1 second, but because of time dilation, the step would still not be FTL to the outside observer, because of time dilation

>> No.12694217

>>12694194
Great response. Pretty insane the levels the universe has gone to, to protect the cosmic speed limit. It's almost like it was programmed that way. What benefit is there for the universe in going to these lengths to protect it? Is it protecting itself from destruction from living things?

>> No.12694242

>>12694194
What if the person was in an antigravity suit?

What if he placed the earth in his hand, would Earth also experience time dilation?

>> No.12694269

>>12694242
Define antigravity. Yes earth would also dilate.

>> No.12694271

>>12694194
Mass creates time and gravity

Time creates motion, motion is limited by mass

What came first? Isn't this a chicken and the egg scenario?

How was mass created without time and motion existing?

>> No.12694278

>>12694271
You're thinking about it all wrong. It's not a chicken and the egg, it's an ouroboros. Mass tells spacetime how to curve whilst spacetime tells mass how to move. Nothing to do with creation.

>> No.12694288

>>12694271
There are so many paradoxes involving motion (zenos paradoxes). These are only mathematical paradoxes. Physics solves them. It only proves our current math is wrong.

>> No.12694301

>>12694278
But wouldn't spacetime cease to exist without mass? Isnt time dependent on mass?

>> No.12694304

>>12694278
This would imply that what has already happened or whatever will happen, has already happened

>> No.12694315

>>12694278
Ah I see, so the expansion of the universe is creating more time by stretching spacetime?

>> No.12694368

>>12694301
Spacetime exists independent of mass. It's purely flat in a Minkowski metric. Introducing mass distorts the metric, which is what causes mass to move.
>>12694315
I guess. Formally it's an expansion of space, which I would say creates the option for more time. For instance it expands the observable universe from [t] years into [t + dt] years that you can measure. It doesn't create time per se, rather expands the upper bound of time you can use (age of the universe).

>> No.12694538

>>12693122 Several posters - you're the first - refer to OP's image as showing 200 million year old extent of our radio broadcase. It's not 200 million, just 200 year circle in the image.

>> No.12694544

>>12694538 *broadcast

>> No.12694559

>>12694538
I wasn't even refering to his being 200 million years. It was just a random number I pulled out.
Our galaxy is only about 200,000lys tops.
This guy >>12694055 got it.

>> No.12694963

>>12694164
Just because the nerve cell is larger doesn't mean the electric signal travels faster. It still has to reach from one end of the cell to the other.

You have no business talking about time dilation, wtf?

>> No.12695236

>>12693090
>There should be civilizations millions of years older than ours whom we should be able to detect.
>implying those civilizations want you to detect them
Pro tip, burger boy. They know everything about us and they've been watch you for ages, and we won't even know they ever existed.

>> No.12695425

>>12693086
fermi paradox is a meme pushed by the same frauds who refuse to do UAP field research/read up on the literature because the results of doing so will BTFO their worldview and careers

>> No.12695432

>>12695236
this, if they're on the same level of intelligence of us if not higher, it would be extremely easy for ET to disguise itself and deceive us, plebs including academia are blind to this

>> No.12696594

>>12695236>>12695432

>aliens are smart1!


yet all they do is watching in the shadows all the atheists having orgies for hundreds of years

=>thinking aliens are smart is peak midwitism

>> No.12696631

>>12694085
Imagine being better at karate because you're short and can send "kick" signals to your feet faster.

>> No.12698242

>>12696631
How does Jon Jones beat up all the manlets in MMA