/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.12666802]

Why do idiots still think sex is binary when science proved it isn't?

[Anonymous No.12666804]

the second sperm is OP

[Anonymous No.12666810]

>>12666802

[Anonymous No.12666818]

OP will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.12666819]

>>12666802
Where's the evidence the spegg exists?

[Anonymous No.12666820]

[Anonymous No.12666822]

>>12666802
>Dominant modes don't exist in a spectrum
Literally you're so retarded you're denying existence of the color red and you don't even realize it.

[Anonymous No.12666823]

>>12666819
>>12666802

[Anonymous No.12666833]

>>12666822
Missing the point. OPs image is misinformation. There is no evidence of a spegg or a sperg (aspies don't count) existing. There are two gametes and only two gametes. No evidence exists which suggests this is a spectrum of gametes

[Anonymous No.12666837]

>>12666802
Absolutely time to kill yourself tranny

[Anonymous No.12666842]

>>12666802
Sex =! Gender

[Anonymous No.12666847]

>>12666810
>n=1

[Anonymous No.12666850]

>>12666847
> if only we could find a cure for gender dysphoria other than cutting your dick off
> good thing we're ignoring all those case reports

[Anonymous No.12666855]

>>12666850
>all those
>1

[Anonymous No.12666856]

>>12666802
Ok, so it is not 2. Is it 4? Is it 7? 85? Is it finite? Is it countable? Is it a continuum? Or even more?

[Anonymous No.12666863]

>>12666856
Bimodal.

[Anonymous No.12666873]

>>12666850
so where's the follow up study if this worked?

[Anonymous No.12666885]

>>12666802
sperm and eggs have a completely different set of instructions for differentiation after and during meiosis. sex is a binary. and ywnbarw.

[Anonymous No.12666917]

>>12666810
What is that text from?

[Anonymous No.12666949]

>>12666873
Anon didn't actually read the study. If he did, then he would know that the patient didn't have a proper diagnosis for gender dysphoria but a myriad of other mental disorders, was borderline retarded and didn't even know what transitioning actually entailed — something that trans are required to fully understand before they're allowed to go through with it. He would also know that pimozide was suggested as a treatment for gender dysphoria only in cases where it isn't clear if patient actually suffers from gender dysphoria or if the desire from transitioning stemmed from a different underlying issue.

[Anonymous No.12666954]

>>12666949
>He would also know that pimozide was suggested as a treatment for gender dysphoria only in cases where it isn't clear if patient actually suffers from gender dysphoria or if the desire from transitioning stemmed from a different underlying issue.
citation please
who else has used it

[Anonymous No.12666958]

>>12666949
>gender dysphoria
>not a kind of schizophrenia

[Anonymous No.12666959]

>>12666954
>citation
You dense fucking idiot. The citation for the information contained in the study we're talking about is contained in the study we're talking about.

[Anonymous No.12666962]

>>12666954
What's a bad faith argument. You and I both know that if another case study were presented, you'd just move the goalposts and conclude that two case studies aren't evidence of wide scale efficacy. So why should anyone even bother providing more?

[Anonymous No.12666966]

>>12666959
who else was treated with pimozide then?

[Anonymous No.12666974]

>>12666949
You're the one who didn't read the article. The patient was at a fucking gender identity clinic you mongrel. The psychiatrists were surprised to see the gender identity issues desist.

[Anonymous No.12666987]

>>12666962
why isn't there any large scale study into this? shouldn't there be multiple options for people with gd or is it just a scheme for plastic surgeons to profit from?

[Anonymous No.12666993]

>>12666987
>why isn't there any large scale study into this?
Have you seen the current state of academia? Do you want to be the one to propose a large scale study to medicate away gender dysphoria? Not even tenure can save you from being canceled anymore.

[Anonymous No.12667047]

>>12666802
I dont think that people are thinking sey is binary but just by looking you can spot that there are 2 genders. A hanging meat sausage with the eggs outside and a white liquid larping out and a hole with a wet tunnel. everything in between is jut not wanted by nature but that doesnt make it less worth living. SO biologically seen sex is binary but indentification is and I think thats great

[Anonymous No.12667056]

>>12667047

>sex*
>Indentification isn't*

sorry guys

[Anonymous No.12667062]

>>12666802
Lots of spergs on 4chan. Heh.

[Anonymous No.12667079]

>>12666818
You will never be with a woman.

[Anonymous No.12667147]

>>12666802
LOL SPERG

these trannies are so fucking retarded. LMAO

[Anonymous No.12667162]

>>12666966
You seem to have issues with reading comprehension so let me break it down for you. Your argument:
>There is a study that suggests pimozide as a treatment for gender dysphoria
My answer:
>The study only suggests the treatment for cases where gender dysphoria isn't clear and my me caused by a different underlying issue

>>12666974
Yes, he was in a gender clinic. I don't see how that changes anything. Specially when it was at said gender clinic that he was given a psychiatric evaluation (as all trans are) and they concluded that he may not have gender dysphoria in the usual sense (the kind that can only be alleviated by transitioning) but instead suffered from a different condition that could be causing it. Thus, the conclusion of the study is that pimozide may be used to treat cases where the gender dysphoria may be a result of some other condition. Not at all what anon is implying which is that pimozide cures gender dysphoria.

[Anonymous No.12667213]

>>12666820

[Anonymous No.12667217]

>>12666802
Sex isn't binary because intersex people (otherwise known as hermaphrodites) exist
That still doesn't justify the current treatments available for body dysphoria

[Anonymous No.12667223]

>>12667162
You're misunderstanding the conclusion. The conclusion submits that some fraction of gender dysphoria patients are misdiagnosed with gender dysphoria, and treatable with pimozide.

[Anonymous No.12667261]

spergs and speggs dont exist, there are no gamete intermediaries.

[Anonymous No.12667291]

>>12667223
I'm not misunderstanding anything. That's what I said. We already knew that. The study is useless. How do you think transitioning works? You just go to a clinic, ask them to chop your dick off and they do it? Well, I'm sorry to break it to you but no, they have psychiatrists evaluate you and determine if transitioning would be the best option. As evidenced by the study where a dude asked them to transition, they said no and gave him drugs instead.

[Anonymous No.12667292]

>>12667162
>>The study only suggests the treatment for cases where gender dysphoria isn't clear and my me caused by a different underlying issue
If it isn't "clear" how is it "being caused by a different issue"?
Why isn't pimozide being used right now?

[Anonymous No.12667297]

>>12667291
>Well, I'm sorry to break it to you but no, they have psychiatrists evaluate you and determine if transitioning would be the best option
How do they do that? Why do you think they have any ability to know?

> As evidenced by the study where a dude asked them to transition, they said no and gave him drugs instead.
That's a one off from a while ago. How do you know there's any routine gatekeeping?

[Anonymous No.12667299]

>>12667291
>claims to read the study
>doesn't remember what year it's from
>thinks today's policies are the same

[Anonymous No.12667321]

>>12667217
>Sex isn't binary because intersex people (otherwise known as hermaphrodites) exist

Humans don't have five digits on each hand because polydactylism exists.
Humans don't have two legs because one legged people exist.
Humans don't have two arms because some people are born without arms.
Humans don't have one head because two headed people exist.

All true - how far are you going to go with this crap before you realise abnormalities are not used to define a species variability.

[Anonymous No.12667329]

>>12667217
>>12667321
Intersex individuals still produce a unique gamete. No examples of intersex individuals producing both spermatozoa and ova gametes. As far as I'm aware, even sterile individuals produce gametes in such low densities they cannot procreate. But they still produce unique gametes.

[Anonymous No.12667338]

>>12666833
>misinformation
God you autists are insufferable. It's a joke aimed at gender tards. OP is being sarcastic

[Anonymous No.12667356]

Is the set of genders countable?

[Anonymous No.12667362]

>>12666818
Chromosomes do not determine ones sex

[Anonymous No.12667380]

>>12667292
They gave him a psychological evaluation and discovered behavioural patterns that were not indicative of gender dysphoria but of a different group of disorders that could be treated with pimozide. Why would it be used right now when there's no evidence to support that it helps treating gender dysphoria?

>>12667297
>How do they do that? Why do you think they have any ability to know?
Because there is a myriad of actual studies with n>1 to suggest so.

>>12667299
>The study I provided is no longer valid. This is because the study is old and has nothing to do with the fact that you used it to prove me wrong.
Moving goalposts, I see. So what's your argument now? That they transition anyone who asks for it? Well then, go to a clinic and ask them to be a woman. They will either:
a) Chop your dick off
b) Send you to a psychiatrist
Which one do you think will happen? I'm not so sure myself.

[Anonymous No.12667387]

>>12667380
>moves goalposts
>accuses other of moving goalposts
Jesus, you're insufferable.

[Anonymous No.12667397]

>>12667380
>Because there is a myriad of actual studies with n>1 to suggest so.
Uncontrolled studies don't tell you anything except placebo.

> They gave him a psychological evaluation and discovered behavioural patterns that were not indicative of gender dysphoria but of a different group of disorders that could be treated with pimozide. Why would it be used right now when there's no evidence to support that it helps treating gender dysphoria?
Why wouldn't you try it on anyone else?

[Anonymous No.12667399]

>>12667356

[Anonymous No.12667458]

>>12667362
Lol
And math is racist.

[Anonymous No.12667501]

>>12667397
>Uncontrolled studies don't tell you anything except placebo.
So you're just gonna dismiss all of the evidence that doesn't support your point? Present your controlled study of pizomide being effective at treating gender dysphoria then.

>Why wouldn't you try it on anyone else?
Because there's no evidence to suggest it helps treating gender dysphoria. In the specific case we're discussing, the diagnosis was that the patient didn't suffer from gender dysphoria because his behaviour was more indicative of a monosymptomatic delusion or schizophrenia, both of which pizomide has been effective at treating. Read the study. It answers all of your questions.

[Anonymous No.12667547]

>>12666804
/thread

[Anonymous No.12667600]

>>12667458
Yea man
2+2 = white colonialism

[Anonymous No.12667605]

>>12666802
If you love gender's so much
Name every one of them

[Anonymous No.12667611]

>>12666802
>Memepics are science

[Anonymous No.12667621]

>>12667501
>Present your controlled study of pizomide being effective at treating gender dysphoria then.
none needed because the claim is "transition is the most effective", so why wouldnt this have been done already?

> In the specific case we're discussing, the diagnosis was that the patient didn't suffer from gender dysphoria because his behaviour was more indicative of a monosymptomatic delusion or schizophrenia
did he fulfil the criteria or not?
what were the relevant differences?
and is this the only person in the history of the world who could've been treated with pimozide having been diagnosed with gd?
how do we know that other patients don't have a similar problem?
if the possibility exists why isn't it used more regularly?

[Anonymous No.12667637]

>>12666802
SEX AND GENDER ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS
Sex:
b : the sum of the structural, functional, and sometimes behavioral characteristics of organisms that distinguish males and females.
Gender:
b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex.
RETARDS, ALL OF YOU

[Anonymous No.12667645]

>>12667329
I've only ever heard of intersex individuals producing sperm, eggs, or being infertile. What are these unique gametes?

[Anonymous No.12667662]

>>12667645
Spermatozoa or Ova. Infertility doesn't mean you produce none of them. If a woman is infertile, it's due to her ova not being able to drop through the fallopian tubes. If a man is infertile, his seminal fluid doesn't have enough spermatozoa to have one reach an ovum. All those "miracles" you hear about infertile people procreating? That's due to poor instruments to measure infertility. And a misunderstood definition of what infertility means.

[Anonymous No.12667697]

>>12667645
See here on germ cells.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_cell
Infertile people still produce the germ cell (gamete) commensurate with their biological sex, but due to [process X], it either never reaches the correct area, or doesn't mature into the sperm or egg cells. Even in a situation like CAIS, the individual still has testes that have not developed, which produce germ cells which are programmed to mature into sperm cells, but due to insensitivity to testosterone, they don't mature to sperm. It'd be like saying a human who, for some reason, never undergoes puberty (either artificially or naturally) is not an adult once they hit [Y age].

[Anonymous No.12667843]

>>12667621
>none needed
Then stop suggesting the use of pizomide as treatment for gender dysphoria until you can provide evidence of its efficacy.
>the claim is "transition is the most effective", so why wouldnt this have been done already?
Because there are ethical concerns regarding treatment refusal and any study would be tainted since you can't lie to people about what they have between their legs. What we have is evidence showing improvements in quality of life after transitioning but you've decided a priori to ignore all of those because they don't conform to your bias. There's also several studies regarding the factors that predict an individual regretting the surgery because, contrary to what you believe, they do check before chopping someone's dick off.

>did he fulfil the criteria or not?
>what were the relevant differences?
>and is this the only person in the history of the world who could've been treated with pimozide having been diagnosed with gd?
>how do we know that other patients don't have a similar problem?
>if the possibility exists why isn't it used more regularly?
The study answers all of your questions.

[Anonymous No.12667895]

>>12666802
Sex is somewhat spectrum based. Let me explain.

You have an initial embryo which is female because all embryos start this way. Then the sex differentiation pathway kicks in and cells with y-chromosomes produce factors that are able to induce the embryo into being a male. Now this is where things start getting tricky. Sex differentiation is a complex array of responses mediated by creating specific concentrations of receptors and hormones.

So let's say we have a factor x which in males is at concentration A and induces a male function of muscle tissue with receptors b. Due to any number of factors that concentration could differ either in factor x, or the affinity of b through mutations, meaning the muscle cells don't act like a typical males and are instead female like. Now extrapolate this to every bodily system and you can see how complex this gets with different systems having complex factors governing how close a person is to a female or male sex. This isn't even getting into microchimerism which is actually present in way more of the population then we'd expect.

In a more macroscopic view this is why we have guys that are female framed and girls that get mustaches.

Now this doesn't mean there aren't some binary aspects such as sperm and eggs although intersex is a thing, but sex is about primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

So while the image op used is satirical the concept is actually sound on a larger biological basis.

[Anonymous No.12667913]

>>12666802
>biology
>BIOLOGY
>BI

[Anonymous No.12668212]

>>12666802
Sex is a binary. Either you have sex or you don't.
In your case, you don't.

[Anonymous No.12668223]

>>12666802
sex is NOT a spectrum
gender is a spectrum

OP is a strawman argument

[Anonymous No.12668318]

>>12667637
Gender is worthless.

[Anonymous No.12668462]

>>12666802
You will never be a woman.
Because Pic related.

[Anonymous No.12668551]

>>12666802
Imagine how much emphasis we put on sex and let it dictate our role in life in the 21st century. Sex is literally the difference between a motile and non-motile gamete to further push for genetical diversity in the genetic pool by sexual reproduction. Humans, this developed, shouldn't be told they can't change their sex because it's not a part of biology in our intricately built societies and cultures which are our new natural habitat and could be considered far from biology just a mere ~10kya.

Yes, I support trans rights.

[Anonymous No.12668556]

>>12668462
I'm so manly, I have 3 Y chromosomes...

Care to explain?

[Anonymous No.12668585]

>>12668551
>Humans, this developed, shouldn't be told they can't change their sex because it's not a part of biology in our intricately built societies and cultures which are our new natural habitat and could be considered far from biology just a mere ~10kya.
how do you consider any human has changed their sex?

[Anonymous No.12668619]

>>12668585
Much like other animals we have certain assigned roles depending on our sex. Transsexual people literally just want the social role of the opposite sex. What I'm saying is, we've come so far as to create our own natural, we might as well just consider this in good faith.

[Anonymous No.12668645]

>>12666802

[Anonymous No.12668714]

>>12668556
XYY, XXX, XYY are genetic diseases as Down syndrome, but way rarer.

Nevertheless A person with "XY" will never be a woman because women have "XX" by definition.

[Anonymous No.12668823]

It's funny how the "educated" use obscure examples of non-binary from the animal kingdom when those are of extreme outlying cases to only turn around and get upset that you suggest that rape & Infanticide should be legal even though they support abortion.

[Anonymous No.12668828]

>tfw no one cares about your effort post

[Anonymous No.12668871]

There's the exception to the rule like hermaphrodites and klinefelters, and the chimeras.
Otherwise, all the invented genders are still based off of the dichotomy.

[Anonymous No.12668907]

>>12668828
Same, bro. Same.

[Anonymous No.12668912]

>>12666810
antipsychotics just fuck your brain up to the point that you can't think for yourself. Of course deviant creative behavior disappears. neck yourself

[Anonymous No.12669124]

>>12666802
pizomide, lets test the efficacy mental case

[Anonymous No.12669147]

>>12668912
>>12667895
>>12667843
>>12667501
>>12667362

[Anonymous No.12669153]

>>12667362
What will tranny? Makeup or cutting your penis for a surgical wound

[Anonymous No.12669162]

>>12667079
>Better than being with a 'woman'(male)

[Anonymous No.12669164]

>>12666802
>Scientists say
A bit off topic, but many scientists today are basically cheap prostitutes that will sell their bodies (research) for any money at all. Besides, anyone could be a "scientist" as long you apply the scientific method correctly which necessarily requires unbiased replication of studies. Im quite suspect that most gender "science" today has been replicated at all by an impartial third party, which leaves most of it just as a collection of hypothesis passing as "science" by ignorant or ideologue journos.

[Anonymous No.12669172]

Psychology and gender soience are not science. They are worse than pseudo science,they are political propaganda.

[Anonymous No.12669211]

>>12666802
is this the ylyl thread

[Anonymous No.12669600]

>>12667217
>Sex isn't binary because intersex people (otherwise known as hermaphrodites) exist
>cars don't work because sometimes they break down
but yes, sex is not binary but ternary: there are XX females, XY males and a few hideous freaks of nature.

[Anonymous No.12670377]

>>12669600
See
>>12667895

[Anonymous No.12670417]

>>12666810
>sample size of 1
>pajeet researcher
Come back with some non-fiction.

[Anonymous No.12670448]

>>12667338
The point in this thread where the weak neurotypical realized breadth to the autism trans-everything endgame

[Anonymous No.12670515]

>>12667895
>You have an initial embryo which is female because all embryos start this way.
Wrong. Embryos don't have a sex, as they exist prior to the development of the sex determination system. In other words, if you don't even have the sex differentiation pathway, there's no way to conclude the embryo is a specific sex.
>Sex differentiation is a complex array of responses mediated by creating specific concentrations of receptors and hormones.
Malarkey. Sex differentiation is determined exclusively by the gametes your gonads produce. That's it. That's literally all there is to it. Simple.
>Now this doesn't mean there aren't some binary aspects such as sperm and eggs although intersex is a thing, but sex is about primary and secondary sexual characteristics.
No. Sex is all about which gametes you produce. That's literally it.
>So while the image op used is satirical the concept is actually sound on a larger biological basis.
No, and I recommend you take an actual biology course on sex, and not whatever you've heard peddled by psychologists and other social "scientists".

All the bullshit in your comment, none of it is scientific and reeks of gender theorist ideology wherein you don't even understand basic biology.

[Anonymous No.12670527]

>>12669600
>a few hideous freaks of nature.
Those freaks of nature are still either male or female. There is not a single human on record who failed to produce either sperm cells or egg cells. XXXX, XYY, XXY, XXYY, you name the abomination, and the abomination has unique gametes which lets us determine its sex. The reason we know individuals with CAIS are males is because they have testes which produce sperm. In principle, we could extract these sperm cells (similar to extracting egg cells from females) and inseminate a female.

All sex means, biologically, is a human's reproductive role. Whether your fallopian tubes block your ova, or if you have defective testes that prevent sperm from entering the seminal fluid, you're still a male or female due to your gametes.

Gender theorists need to fuck off.

[Anonymous No.12670543]

>>12667895
>>12668828
See here
>>12667662
>>12667697
I put effort into this thread before and you fucking genderfags always ignore it. Then whine about how you make high effort posts full of misinformation that was ignored. Why not try addressing the information provided?

>>12668619
Then you don't need hormones. Just do the roles of the opposite sex. Plus you get the problem of sports. Some of these roles are roles that the opposite sex simply shouldn't participate in.

[Anonymous No.12670582]

>>12670515
All embryos start as female and take while to start developing maleness. A female embryo does not have a shift from that pre-male selection state. Therefore the starting state is female as it merely requires blocking this shift to make an XY to develop as a female and not the addition of extra factors.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4470128/#:~:text=Geneticists%20have%20discovered%20that%20all,maternal%20estrogens%20and%20maleness%20develops.

Sex differentiation of gametes is one part of how sex presents in a body, it's the primary sexual characteristic. But if a person is infertile and produces no gametes they still have a sex yes? Well it's just the karyotype then right? But what about xx males? Those are just a difference in signalling though which you don't seem to think is important for sex determination.

There are physical differences throughout a body that align with being male or female though. Hair patterning, muscle types, organ dynamics, hormone production, antibody production, neural architecture, etc. These are dependent on hormone signalling, receptors, and tissue construction during fetal development. Someone can have a receptor mutation in their neural cells that mean they respond weakly to make hormones and therefore those cells are more likely to develop closer to what a female physiology would dictate.

I've literally never taken a psych or gender studies class in my life. I took grad courses on stem cell biology and cell signalling in my PhD coursework on biophysics and biochemistry as well as a mess of them in undergrad. So I can say with some confidence that I know what I'm talking about compared to literal parroted talking points about how "sex=gametes". You ignored the thesis that someone can have cells that act like how a "normal female" should despite being XY with testes. Which is funny because you accuse unscientific thought yet presented only a semantically motivated argument more suited for a political talk show.

[Anonymous No.12670602]

>>12670543
There are a lot of forms of infertility. There can be dysfunction in germ cell production on the first step. There can mutations that just completely stop the formation of genitals such as gonadal genesis. Is that child suddenly without a sex? No. They clearly are sexed male and will develop as such, especially if given hormones to compensate for the ones lost due to a lack of testes.

Regardless your point lacks weight. Germ cells are a part of physical sex, we have primary and secondary sexual characteristics with direct impact on what our cells do and how they respond to different stimulus. Sex differentiation doesn't just stop at the genitals, there is a lot going on there.

[Anonymous No.12670605]

>>12670602
Gonadal agenesis*

[Anonymous No.12670619]

>>12670582
>All embryos start as female and take while to start developing maleness.
Lies. Where are you even getting that bullshit? Embryos are neither females nor males.
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4470128
LOL. Do you even know what journal that is? You just cited a fucking psychiatrist on topic of embryology. LMAO.
>But if a person is infertile and produces no gametes they still have a sex yes?
There is no evidence of a single human existing who produces no gametes.
>I'm not a gender theorist
>cites gender theory
Dumbass.

[Anonymous No.12670649]

>>12670619
If you have high TDF then you become male. If you have low you become female. All embryos start with low TDF. If you block TDF pathways then what should have been a male embryo will develop as female. This is literally introductory biology.

Gonadal agenesis. There are people born without 80% of their brains as you should be well aware, a person entirely missing their genitals isn't that wild.

You are the one theorizing about gender here. I'm listing basic biological facts on how signalling and sex differentiation occurs in the body. Pretending males and females are only different at the genital level is naive, there are a large number of physical differences throughout pretty much every system.

[Anonymous No.12670652]

>>12666802
>Sperg
Yeah this is accurate

[Anonymous No.12670656]

>>12670527
>Gender theorists need to fuck off.
Gender *hypothesists

[Anonymous No.12670667]

>>12666804

[Anonymous No.12670688]

>>12670649
That image is only valid once sex determination occurs. Prior to that, during embryogenesis, the embryo has no gender.
>Gonadal agenesis.
Gonadal DYSGENESIS doesn't matter. Here's a suggestion. Try looking into the tests used to determine they have no gametes. They're the same limitations of all tests that determine infertility, and are baffled at how "infertile" people can mysteriously procreate. They're there.

But I'll humor you, since I prefer steelmanning over strawmanning. Even if there were individuals incapable of producing gametes, that's irrelevant as sex determination is one's capacity to produce such gametes. As such, a sex only exists after the sex determination occurs in fetal development. suggesting that embryos don't have a sex.
>I'm listing basic biological facts on how signalling and sex differentiation occurs in the body.
So now embryos have bodies? Again, you're an idiot.

Are you going to try citing another second wave feminist ala Mary Jane Sherfey on the topic of psychiatry? PROTIP: only cite articles you've read, and not the ones you've pulled up on a quick google search. Otherwise you're just going to make a fool of yourself.

[Anonymous No.12670695]

>>12670688
The embryo genome already has predetermined genders coded in its DNA.

[Anonymous No.12670722]

>>12670688
Funnily enough, the myth of embryos starting as females began with Mary Jane Sherfey popularizing the notion. Where's the original source for such a claim? NOBODY KNOWS.
>it was her ass

[Anonymous No.12670730]

>>12667217
There has never been a case of true fertile hermaphroditism, and even then it would only be choosing both lots. There's no third or fourth, it's either one or both.

[Anonymous No.12670743]

>>12668619
Changing the roles only changes the social role, not sex. I don't believe gender has any value either. Besides since sex is biological, shouldn't gender be the one that changes when social role is changed?

[Anonymous No.12670755]

>>1267068
Male development paths are a deviation from a female developmental path. You can make a male develop as a female by blocking a factor but you would need to induce a large number of different factors to make a female develop as a male. Just like how people are naturally language deficient but then through the addition of education and exposure develop language skills. The native state is without language, the intervention creates a new state.

Dys is a dysfunction in generation, the prefix of a- implies a complete lack. There is literally no gonadal structures. Here are a couple different things to browse through for you.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1013035/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/gonadal-agenesis

You are literally making a semantical argument based on the idea that "sex only exists as a function of capacity to make gametes". Which agenesis individuals are incapable of, they do not have the capacity to make gametes. We could extract cells from them and make gametes, but we can do that with anyone and you run into the karyotyping problem of sex determination. So either those people don't have a sex and embryos pre-determination do not have sex or your definition is inherently flawed.

Sexual development takes >10 years to complete for most people. There are a variety of processes going on this whole time and that's what I've been referencing this entire time, I'm sorry if you have trouble picking up on that. I just assumed mentioning hair growth patterns would have given that away as embryos don't grow full beards.

[Anonymous No.12670770]

>>12670755
Don't detract from the fact you cited a second wave feminist psychiatrist to support your claim that embryos begin as female. As noted here
>>12670722
you can see that this psychiatrist is the one who popularized this notion, and there are no original sources for this being the case aside from Ms. Sherfey.

[Anonymous No.12670787]

>>12670695
Conflating words makes things more difficult. My entire point is that sex determination doesn't just stop affecting the body differentially after TDF pathways are initiated. A body can have mutations in receptors and hormonal metabolic pathways that result in responses that would normally be male occuring in a female or vice versa. Such as a woman having her skin cells respond to her hormones as though she were a male giving her a beard. This would be a case where a woman has male secondary sexual character in a very obvious way. Hence she would have more male sex character than a woman who doesn't grow a full beard. And yes, it is probably heavily coded for in genetic information. Although I'd be remiss to aknowledge the possibility of different enviormental toxins changing stuff.
>>12670722
It comes from analysis of cell signalling pathways and the conventions used to describe genetic regulation of cell states.

[Anonymous No.12670803]

>>12670582
>I took grad courses on stem cell biology and cell signalling in my PhD coursework on biophysics and biochemistry
>>12670649
>>12670755
>>12670787

Friendly reminder to all lurkers here that the paradigm of gender bullshit has infiltrated academia and science so deeply that even this anon learns it in grad school.
> I took grad courses on stem cell biology and cell signalling in my PhD coursework on biophysics and biochemistry

[Anonymous No.12670816]

>>12670770
Quite literally a red herring as that isn't central to my point on sex being expressed as a spectrum of effects through the body. Although looking through recent literature they found in 2017 that embryos produce factors to ensure proper growth of female tracts implying it is a more active process than was thought for the half century beforehand from genetic factor analysis. Although I know you weren't referencing that but your own inconsistent definition of sex.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6352/717

[Anonymous No.12670828]

>>12670816
>2017 occurred before 1970s
>what is an original source

[Anonymous No.12670833]

>>12670803
Or maybe cell signalling pathways just work in ways that you don't understand and conflict with your worldview? The cell is a highly stochastic system that relies on noisy solutions to DE's in order to compute outcomes with signalling circuits. In the case of the biological differences between men and women, which are many fold, this fact remains true.

Perhaps you can try refuting the central thesis that there is differential expression of male and female phenotypes throughout a bodies tissues instead of taking potshots on nitpicks unrelated to that central point?

[Anonymous No.12670841]

>>12670828
Can you read? The thing I was referencing supported the idea that female isn't the default state. Female being default being an idea that was supported by our understanding of mamallian development, as other species use different sex determination mechanisms like temperature. Do you have some sort of brain worm?

[Anonymous No.12670855]

>>12670841
>Female being default being an idea that was supported by our understanding of mamallian development, as other species use different sex determination mechanisms like temperature
It was created and promulgated by a feminist psychiatrist who pulled it out of her ass, and your dumbass tried citing that as a reputable source.

[Anonymous No.12670859]

Why does a scientific community like this believe in the long outdated concept of biological differences between male and female? Seems strange to me.

[Anonymous No.12670868]

>>12670582
>Sex differentiation of gametes is one part of how sex presents in a body, it's the primary sexual characteristic. But if a person is infertile and produces no gametes they still have a sex yes?
You're an actual retard. An organ that doesn't work is still that organ. Form follows function. A male with a disorder is still male.

[Anonymous No.12670887]

>>12670855
She hypothesized something that matched current data and continued to do so until the identification of X factors linked to female differentiation were identified in 2017. The reason that took so long being that you need to rip apart the x chromosome to find the pieces that make things happen and doing that without killing a cell outright is hard.

Regardless you refuse to engage with the original point instead favoring the attack of something irrelevant focused on the source of a hypothesis instead of its justifiability. Otherwise you would have found the 2017 paper before me. The original point of course being that sex determination is a complex set of events that span an entire body and give different responses based on native genomic information that do not correspond to clear male/female dichotomies as a majority of genital based identification methods do.

With sex being the biological definition and not the layman's of course.

[Anonymous No.12670895]

>>12670868
That was literally the point of that statement. Reread the post and the one it was responding to. My point was gamete production isn't sufficient while there's was that gamete production was the end all be all.

[Anonymous No.12670907]

>>12670887
>She hypothesized something that matched current data
What current data? Find the original sources or "data" she was allegedly citing.

[Anonymous No.12670940]

>>12670907
You are a semantic and pedantic nightmare that searches for any specific nitpick to declare victory over while neglecting the original point of a discussion that you are ill-equipped to refute. I'm just gonna stop now.

[Anonymous No.12670946]

>>12667611
it is in this place

[Anonymous No.12670948]

>>12670940
Why should I take your point seriously if it's littered with misinformation and points you cannot justify? It's not even about semantics, it's about consistency.

[Anonymous No.12670955]

>>12670940
he's not here to argue, he's here to pwn some leftard scientists. congratz, you've had your time wasted by someone on the internet.

[Anonymous No.12670965]

>>12666802
Fun fact: Male bees all hatch from unfertilized eggs.

[Anonymous No.12670972]

>>12670948
No it's not. You latched onto a single citation on a single specific claim not nessicary for the rest of my argument that I already released by providing counter evidence to my own claim voluntarily as I actually researched the biological basis, cell signalling pathways, instead of applying an inconsistent definition of sex.

I justified many points, you just chose to sperg out over the one with a feminist in it instead of engaging the underlying biological mechanisms responsible for the sex of non-gonadal cells throughout a body.

[Anonymous No.12670977]

>>12670695
>The embryo genome already has predetermined genders coded in its DNA.
would that be funny, man, social constructs coded in DNA.

[Anonymous No.12670981]

>>12670955
pwnage seems to have been worked, seething leftie ran away. I did not even know this shit about all fetuses being initially female was the interpretation of a feminist shrink.

[Anonymous No.12670983]

>>12667356
If you define gender as a binary vector of attractions to other genders, you can use the diagonal argument to prove it is uncountable

[Anonymous No.12671021]

>>12670972
That's a really long winded and roundabout way to say "I was wrong Anon, thank you for correcting me."

[Anonymous No.12671060]

>>12670977
gender is useless.

[Anonymous No.12671392]

>>12668912
>pills: not taken
>voices: audible

[Anonymous No.12671395]

>>12670977
gender = sex, sex is binary.

"LGBTQ" are mental diseases (gender dysphoria).

End of story

[Anonymous No.12671408]

>>12668912
bad point, antipsychotics are overused. a reliance on drugs is not good but should be used if all else fails. some people are just mutants and need drugs to function half normally, but most are just not well adjusted to the modern world or some really weird stuff we dont understand is going on and in that case drugs is just a bandage on an otherwise fixable problem

[Anonymous No.12671442]

>>12667637
This concept was invented less than 100 years ago by a Jew, anon. It's just made up bullshit

[Anonymous No.12671595]

>>12667362
>Genes don't exist

[Anonymous No.12671644]

>>12671595
Sex exists in organisms that do not have sex chromosomes.

[Anonymous No.12671972]

>>12671644
we're talking about humans, show us that in humans. Dumbest no pizomide taking take.

[Anonymous No.12671977]

>>12671972
But a male human and a male of any other species are both male. So chromosomes cannot define what male is.

[Anonymous No.12671980]

>>12671977
what? The males are the ones with the sperm who inseminate. How is that anything but genetics?

[Anonymous No.12671983]

>>12671977
An adult insect and an adult human are both adults. What's your fucking point? And what does an adult insect have to do with an adult human? If you're trying to draw a comparison between male insects and male humans, then why not focus on rape and conclude men should serendipitously mass rape all human women? After all, a male is a male is a male.

[Anonymous No.12672005]

>>12666818
Damn the Y one’s kinda stumpy. I can see where the overcompensation comes from now.

[Anonymous No.12672026]

>>12671977
but chromosomes literally do you meaning splitting gigafaggot :)

"Inheriting too many or not enough copies of sex chromosomes can lead to serious problems. For example, females who have extra copies of the X chromosome are usually taller than average and some have mental retardation. Males with more than one X chromosome have Klinefelter syndrome, which is a condition characterized by tall stature and, often, impaired fertility. Another syndrome caused by imbalance in the number of sex chromosomes is Turner syndrome. Women with Turner have one X chromosome only. "

[Anonymous No.12672027]

>redefine terms
>claim it's a scientific development
It's all so tiresome

[Anonymous No.12672073]

>>12666949
>different underlying issue.

Trans people are well known for having a myriad of other issues. Hence the suicide problem.

[Anonymous No.12673090]

>>12672027
Literally this. It's really disappointing.

[Anonymous No.12673110]

>>12666842
>run americanEducation.exe
>Fatal error. Impossible to compute

[Anonymous No.12673188]

[Anonymous No.12673249]

>>12666802
By this logic binary signals aren't binary either

[Anonymous No.12673259]

>>12667362
chromosomes are sexist, fuck chromosomes