Psychiatry

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Psychiatry Anonymous Mon Feb 1 13:16:46 2021 No.12653059 [Reply] [Original]

What does /sci/ think about psychiatry?

Is it ethical to lock people up and drug them against their will?

Anonymous Mon Feb 1 21:55:26 2021 No.12654875

>>12653059
it's for their own benefit even if it's detrimental because the system has been sold out

it's difficult getting traction on this topic without degenerating into schizos and "take your meds" being shilled back and forth

the movement needs someone high profile to complain but abuse dynamics dictates that wont happen

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 01:33:07 2021 No.12655342 Yes, it is ethical, because some people are either a danger to themselves or others if left unsupervised. What, you think any organ in the human body can malfunction, but not the brain?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:00:14 2021 No.12655415 File: 44 KB, 720x405, 1611700381937.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >ethical >against their will

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:04:35 2021 No.12655426 >>12655342 >Yes, it is ethical, because some people are either a danger to themselves or others if left unsupervised. What of forcing medications on someone that has demonstrated no threat to himself or others?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:11:32 2021 No.12655449 >>12655415 Simply doing something against somebody else's will isn't unethical. Otherwise it would be unethical to stop a bank heist.

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:14:24 2021 No.12655459

>>12655426
I'd be okay with hand and dick amputations if only that stopped you from posting.

Uh...I mean, society also has the duty to solve possible issues that might arise in the future. There is also to consider that medication can genuinely improve the quality of life of some people that would otherwise suffer problems, independently of whether or not they're a danger.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:17:21 2021 No.12655463 >>12655449 Wrong. A bank heist is against someone else's will. Essentially you must reduce the chain of consequence to the original transgressor and put the onus on them. It's called Thelema.

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:25:10 2021 No.12655488

>>12655459

So you believe you have the right to determine someone else's quality of life and force medications on them against their will? Even if they expressly do not want it and are not a threat to anyone?

You see nothing wrong with that?

I want to force you to smoke a joint.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:26:45 2021 No.12655494 >>12655488 It's ok that he sees nothing wrong with that, it simply means he is willing to have others make this assumption about him.

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 02:51:14 2021 No.12655543

>>12655463
No u, shitting up the common goods is also against somebodies will if you argue like this. If the person isn't a danger to himself, to others or makes his surroundings worse by, for example, ranting to himself or being a dirty hobo, he is going to be left alone.
Prove: Ain't nobody bothers to give people a second look on the street unless something sticks out.

>>12655488
Nobody that doesn't stick out negatively is getting medicated. For the simple reason that medical professionals and capacity of mental health care facilitirs are a limited commodity.

And yes, society as a whole has the right to determine what somebodies quality of life should be like. We set minimal standards for child welfare, for example and do remove children forcefully from their parents, against both parties will.

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 10:51:41 2021 No.12656567

>>12653059
When they are a danger for themselves or others, yes.

>What of forcing medications on someone that has demonstrated no threat to himself or others?

That doesn't happen. Letting yourself waste away alone in a mountain of garbage and not wanting to do anything to get better like taking a medication is a definition of being a danger for oneself.
People in those kind of situations are generally overwhelmed by their delusions and/or hallucinations. They wouldn't be like that otherwise. They are suffering but their symptoms prevent them to seek help.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 12:25:24 2021 No.12656923 “Take your meds” is a literal psyop

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 12:27:11 2021 No.12656931 >>12653059 I prefer neuroscience to imagination. I'm not terribly interested in ethics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 12:28:16 2021 No.12656936 >>12656923 You should probably keep taking your meds tho hon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 12:29:30 2021 No.12656940 >>12656936 “Take your meds” is a literal psyop

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 12:39:44 2021 No.12656967 >>12653059 >Is it ethical to lock people up and drug them against their will? if they are a danger to society, yes!

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 12:54:04 2021 No.12657031 >>12656967 Literal continuation of the psyop. This is what they did to Jews You mark my words, the moment you realise big pharma and the media Jews have done this to you is the moment this damn phrase dies

>>	Sage Tue Feb 2 13:13:40 2021 No.12657126 >>12657031 What about real schizos though?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 13:30:20 2021 No.12657225 >>12655342 That statement sounds self righteous. Why don't we just exile them to an island or something of that nature to see how they do? How is it responsible to lock someone up against their will and drug them for the rest of their life?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 13:33:42 2021 No.12657244 >>12657126 They need to take their meds desu.

Sage Tue Feb 2 13:35:41 2021 No.12657265

>>12657225
They'll only starve on that island. I don't even want to imagine the shit "Lord of the Schizo" would bring about. It's better to take care of these people and try to help them back to self responsibility by therapy.

Are you the guy that had the police called on him for "no reason"?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 13:41:26 2021 No.12657295 >>12654875 >it's for their own benefit Most people report involuntary lockup being the most traumatic experience of their life. More traumatic than what made them come there in the first place. It's a vicious cycle.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 13:50:57 2021 No.12657341 File: 99 KB, 569x509, speciation of pepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12657295 Just let them rot in the streets, lol. Trying to help only violates the NAP!

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 13:59:13 2021 No.12657394 Ethics aren't a /sci/-related topic

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 14:08:48 2021 No.12657456 >>12653059 Psychiatry is a lie and those who practice it should be executed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 14:16:06 2021 No.12657486 >>12653059 Yes T. Psychiatrist

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 14:48:03 2021 No.12657684

>>12657456
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuoJy1xvzbY

Tens of thousands of videos out there. Specialists, afflicted, family members of these people. Yet two guys on /sci/ are under the delusion that they know better. I wonder what would give you such a good, personal insight into schizophrenia?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:00:02 2021 No.12657814 >>12657684 Stop derailing the thread into schizo, video guy. We talk about other fake mental illnesses here so BTFO

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:05:45 2021 No.12657847 >>12657814 Did the police taze your balls when they took you to the hospital?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:07:45 2021 No.12657859 >>12657814 Btw, she's talking about exactly the stuff you two or three guys keep bringing up in regards to medication. Common schizo delusions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:10:14 2021 No.12657883 >>12657265 >They'll only starve on that island Doubtful though their might be deaths at first. How is forcing people into a mold with drugs taking care of them? What is the success rate of this method?

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:17:31 2021 No.12657951

>>12657883
Schizos have a very high chance of committing suicide or ending up on the streets. What are the chances that they'll manage to build a nation state for the hundreds of thousands of schizos that there are? Zero.

The success rate of medication and therapy isn't bad at all. But you guys neither believe medical experts, nor the afflicteds personal records nor your own eyes and senses. Have fun in your own reality, I guess.

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:34:40 2021 No.12658331 [DELETED]

>>12655342
The funny thing is society doesnt help a lot of people that ask for help, including mental health. I dont know where exactly do doctors chase down patients to treat them. When i needed mental health once i had to deal with shit like 3 month waiting time to see a psychiatrist that would hear you 10 minutes and write down a random anti depressant or benzo.

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:44:46 2021 No.12658550

bipolarfag here

they should euthanize us all en masse. us and the schizos. instead of doing what they do now which is load us up with mind numbing medication that have so many side effects people stop them knowing full well they’ll eventually turn into rambling lunatics again. and no matter what bullshit they feed you about becoming “functional” again - top kek. you’re never gonna get a real job. nothing beyond part time minimum wage gigs. and even that is too much for most of us. and the social problems. don’t even get me started on them. the moment normies catch so much of a whiff you having mental problems they nope the fuck away from you fast and make it clear in no uncertain terms just how much of a subhuman they consider you

where am I going with this. idk. but it’s the truth. having a brain defect of this caliber is no fucking joke. psychiatrists only exist to numb us with enough meds to prevent us from stabbing random people in the street during a psychotic break. but it’s not good enough. we should all just be euthanized and psychiatry should be abandoned in its entirety.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 15:54:05 2021 No.12658677 >>12657684 She looks strange because of her shallow set eyes, that doesn't make her mentally ill.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:00:48 2021 No.12658767 >>12658677 She's describing how she ran through the streets in her latest psycotic episode, which lead to her hospitalization. Nothing about her looks is out of the ordinary. Get a better script.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:08:10 2021 No.12658855 >>12657859 >you two or three guys Actually we are one

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:08:53 2021 No.12658860 >>12658767 Brain damage from the pills.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:10:08 2021 No.12658870 >>12658860 Probably withdrawal too

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:34:45 2021 No.12659052 >>12658860 Ironically, she adressed this exact concern in her video too. Common schizo delusion. Why did she have to take pills originally?

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:41:30 2021 No.12659097 [DELETED]

>>12659052
I forgot the term for this but it is common for patients to end up with 20 medications to manage the symptoms from the first one. Prescriptions snowball for what was a mild initial problem.
Im sure people do have mental problems but psychiatry doesnt offer good medicine. The drugs dont work.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:52:01 2021 No.12659160 >>12659052 Or maybe the pills are actual poisons, you know.

>>	Sage Tue Feb 2 16:52:40 2021 No.12659165 >>12659097 The drugs work. The woman we're talking about went off her medication and promptly had an episode. Once she got back on it, her smyptoms vanished. Could you guys at least not argue endlessly against what is plain to see, read and hear?

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 16:56:45 2021 No.12659196 >>12659165 That happens with withdrawals too. I cant tell from the video if the medicine helps her or if it just prevents withdrawals

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 17:04:43 2021 No.12659259

>>12659196
Luckily for you, this woman has produced hours of contend detailing nearly every step of her illness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mND56jYPCRU

Her symptoms showed before she got on pills. You need to come with a different crackpot theory.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 17:12:26 2021 No.12659309 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1L9Rb0LADg We should use these threads to gather fascinating interviews like these.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 18:16:16 2021 No.12659672 >>12659309 This is how I imagine /pol/

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 18:57:01 2021 No.12659870

>>12655449
>>>12655415
>Simply doing something against somebody else's will isn't unethical. Otherwise it would be unethical to stop a bank heist.

I concur. That is why we need to add an 'R' to LGBT. Rapist are born that way. What happens between two non-consenting adults in an alleyway is their business. Stop discrimination against Rapists today. #RLGBT.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 18:58:24 2021 No.12659879 >>12653059 >Is it ethical to lock people up and drug them against their will? people in favor of locking up anyone some ((psychiatrist)) arbitrarily says to. Those same people are not in favor of locking up all orcs though.

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 21:30:58 2021 No.12660463

>>12657684
>Yet two guys on /sci/ are under the delusion that they know better.

Well, I will now prove you a liar since there is testimony from various different individuals across the last several threads. Including an officer discuss how patients are used as cattle.

Previous threads:

>>12610257
>>12625362
>>12623523

The people defending psychiatry rely entirely on dishonesty and misrepresentation. That's if they are even capable of getting past mere insults. Here we see testimony from numerous perspectives of the harm caused by psychiatrists, some testimony even coming from people currently being helped by one of the few competent psychiatrists in the world.

This is not surprising to me. The psychiatrist I had lied pretty constantly about the smallest of things. For example she even lied about what she had put on her petition, of course she declined to have me go and retrieve it for proof. These people are not interested in truth or helping people, merely maintaining their power.

You also have to contend with the national classic, "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."

Anonymous Tue Feb 2 21:34:32 2021 No.12660472

>>12655543
>Comparing adults to children.

You are also essentially arguing psychiatry is about enforcing strict norms, cutting down the tallest stalks. There is no room for an eccentric genius in your imagination. That's probably because you are a midwit envious of people born with a better intellect than yourself, so you would rather have them medicated down to your dull level.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 23:33:55 2021 No.12660812 >>12653059 Pseudoscience, it's a paralegal system. It's basically the Sharia Law of positivists and commies.

>>	Anonymous Tue Feb 2 23:45:33 2021 No.12660840 >>12658550 agreed, the psyop has been fully implemented and people are lobotomized. would rather be dead than on this medication

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 00:02:20 2021 No.12660896 Email Joe Brogran to get some traction on psychiatric assault and big pharma. He listened to Alex Jones, he'll probably listen to this

Sage Wed Feb 3 00:34:08 2021 No.12660962

>>12660472
We also set a minimum quality of life for adults and try to maintain that. That's why we have stuff like a social net, job regulations, etc.
Again, nobody is just forced into medication. There needs to be something that sticks out very negatively about them.

>>12660463
Oh wow, psychiatrists are not all perfect. What a shock that they're human. You wouldn't argue against the police as a whole just because some are power tripping.

>>12660840
This is a very common delusion many schizos share and part of why some cases are so difficult that they require forced hospitalization.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7fP1yeE0p28

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 06:38:53 2021 No.12661741 >>12653059 no /thread

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 09:11:42 2021 No.12662059

>>12660962
You took my words literally, that example is so far gone.

I think you're being naive believing that such overarching organisations should be able to get away with mistakes. Yes, you would argue against the police as a whole because some are power tripping.
I've been following the GME thing too much and the 2008 crash, it is exactly because of a few power trippers that cause so much chaos. Again, naive.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 09:25:21 2021 No.12662095 >>12657031 >Literal continuation of the psyop >This is what they did to Jews rightfully so, and there was nothing wrong with this

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 10:33:50 2021 No.12662270 >>12659870 Frankly i believe that anything that happens in a soundproof underground room is legal because the encapsulation means it doesnt affect society.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 11:03:45 2021 No.12662358

>>12662059
No, the comparison with the police is pretty on point. Both have to deal with crazy people and both require a certain amount of privileges and powers vested into them.
You don't get it. You don't want to get it. Thankfully, tards like you will never reach their paranoid goals. Have fun getting the cops called on you again during your next episode.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 12:25:01 2021 No.12662614 >>12662270 Is it unethical to force a citizen to sell some of his land -with fair compensation-, so that the state can build necessary infrastructure?

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 12:47:35 2021 No.12662707
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Psychiatry should be abolished and replaced with good doctors, better societies and wise philosophers. We live in a very dysfunctional low-trust world and we shouldn't be shocked that it produces damaged & confused people. Putting every malcontent on soma so they can tolerate it, is a sign how evil the world has become and enables further abuses without serious change. Many people would rather feel dishonestly about the world than to have normal reactions to bad things.

Psychiatry votes on what is considered an illness and there's little international agreement, all these 'illnesses' are based on personality tests, race, gender and their class according to their assumed social role.
The vast majority of the meds do not work without the psychosomatic factor. It's mercury tonics and lead elixirs all over again.
They want treatment instead of cures, they do not want to heal anyone but keep them forever within the system. Often destroying people so they're thrown away, treated as little more than a demographic liability.

The only reason psychiatry exists is because the government pays them to exist as a paralegal system to skirt around human rights and to silence malcontents to maintain the illusion of stability in an nuclear world.
Having government shamans would probably be equally as effective, even more so since they aim to cure and are more honest with their methods rather than some cult of positivist partisans.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 13:19:52 2021 No.12662844 >>12662707 Look at this malcontent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyEjbjgafrg

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 13:33:35 2021 No.12662882 >>12662844 If you're implying that's proof of the validity of psychiatry you might as well post videos of 'demonic possession' as proof of the validity of exorcisms.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:14:22 2021 No.12663412

>>12660962
>Again, nobody is just forced into medication.

False, I was forcibly medicated just based on a number of eccentric habits. The psychiatrist did not like the fact I slept 6 hrs a night (bipolar 1 was her diagnosis) and even used the fact I was doing meditation in lotus on the floor in my room in court. This was all because I pushed an assailant away from me when I was cornered and a career nurse signed a petition against me claiming I was the aggressor. As I said, you lie. These threads are full of, "take your meds' as an argument. You yourself were just arguing for forcibly medicating anyone you deemed not living up to your standards. You are full of cognitive dissonance.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:16:49 2021 No.12663421

>>12657265
>Are you the guy that had the police called on him for "no reason"?

You have no idea how many different times in my life I've seen people use the police to harass someone. 4chan is notorious for using such tactics. You are delusional if you think these things don't happen.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:17:50 2021 No.12663423 >>12657341 You've never heard the wisdom that you can only help someone who asks for it? Otherwise you're just high on your own self-righteousness.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:32:21 2021 No.12663459

>>12663412
Read the sentence after that, cherry-picker.

>I pushed an assailant away from me when I was cornered
The neighbours that you got annoyed with and to confront whom you left your flat? Yeah, sure you were attacked.

>You yourself were just arguing for forcibly medicating anyone you deemed not living up to your standards.
Quote me, schizobrain.

>>12663421
You do know that swatting is illegal, right? If you aren't crazy, you just talk to the police and be done with it.

>>12663423
Unless their illness makes them not seek or actively avoid treatment. Some people need help or they're a danger to themselves and others. No, we can't just ignore these people as they're at best a risk and at worst a concrete danger or health hazzard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:35:15 2021 No.12663463 >>12663459 >we can't just ignore these people as they're at best a risk and at worst a concrete danger or health hazzard. How don't they end up in jail?

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:36:11 2021 No.12663465 [DELETED]

>>12663459
A more common experience is that of looking for medical help and getting nothing. I think these cases of forced psychiatric care are few and are either political or legal persecution or some rich family forcing their schizo daughter to take her 20 pills. When a normal person asks for psychiatric care hes told to get lost.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:45:34 2021 No.12663490 [DELETED]

>>12663465
I mean psychiatrists do nothing but mentally ill people still look for them hopeful of help, but it never happens. Big example Peter Jordanstein. He was feeling down and looked for help and the doctors fucked him.
Schizos are fucked either way, the drugs destroy their brains over the years. If i was a schizo i would use a drug-induced lucidity window to plan my future suicide.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 16:46:54 2021 No.12663494

>>12663463
Many do. What are you talking about?

>>12663465
Yes, exactly. Health care capacity is limited. The ones arguing against psychiatry in these threads are just bitter that they couldn't contain their crazy. Plenty of eccentrics running around that don't get the cops called on them. I should know.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 18:04:52 2021 No.12663787

>>12663459
I think you have serious mental issues and are a threat to others. You imagine you know what happened to other people in situations you were not present in and make up vivid details of events you know nothing about.

>Quote me, schizobrain.

Literally a few sentences later:

>Some people need help or they're a danger to themselves and others. No, we can't just ignore these people as they're at best a risk and at worst a concrete danger or health hazzard.

Ignoring the fact you cannot even use spellcheck, this entire conversation has been about people who may be abnormal but exhibit no signs of threat to themselves or others.

You are incredibly hostile and delusional.

Btw, I didn't say swatting. I've seen acquaintances call the cops on people just to harass people and face no consequences.

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 18:06:39 2021 No.12663791

>>12663494
>Plenty of eccentrics running around that don't get the cops called on them. I should know.

You still have a lot of chances ahead of you! I hope you get to experience the fun of having the entire system abuse you because nobody holds people with authority accountable.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 18:17:49 2021 No.12663824 >>12662707 Genius, what's the solution?

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 18:25:16 2021 No.12663844

>>12662707
>Having government shamans would probably be equally as effective, even more so since they aim to cure and are more honest with their methods rather than some cult of positivist partisans.

Can confirm, a shaman has been far more helpful with Gong music therapy than the psychiatrist was. The psychiatrist would not even answer, "what behavior are you trying to change?" as a question.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 18:40:35 2021 No.12663913 >>12662358 Can anyone see this retard is just into power dynamics? You talk about powers vested when I talk about abuse of power. Can’t even hold two separate ideas, utter fucking retard, keep sucking (((their))) dick.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 18:46:07 2021 No.12663933 >>12653059 >What does /sci/ think about criminal justice? >Is it ethical to lock people up for committing violent crimes against their will?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 18:47:37 2021 No.12663939 >>12663933 I phrased that wrong. Let me try again: >What does /sci/ think about criminal justice? >Is it ethical to lock people up against their will for committing violent crimes?

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 19:13:09 2021 No.12664016

>>12663787
>this entire conversation has been about people who may be abnormal but exhibit no signs of threat to themselves or others
No, it hasn't. There have been multiple Anons telling you why that happens only very rarely. It still leaves the people that do genuinely need help, yet don't seek it due to their mental illness. They exist.

And you couldn't even give me a quote. So let me cut it short and answer whatever half sentence you will find. Society as a whole decides who gets forced into psych treatment. That's a far cry removed from medicating people I deem not living up to MY standards.

I read hostile to you because you keep making these emotionally driven threads. There isn't even any discussion to be had, you just claim psychiatrists to be demons or something. This is definitely personal for you. So take your meds.

>>12663913
Abuse of power happens every time power is vested in an institution. Why does psychiatry need to be abolished and not the police?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3d_kybSfOc

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 19:37:53 2021 No.12664110 >>12664016 I never said to abolish, I said it was a psyop, like institutional ghettos

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 19:44:32 2021 No.12664135 >>12664110 Are you...making a case for the existence of ghettos?

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 19:54:38 2021 No.12664174 >>12664135 The opposite, I believe in police reform etc. I’m not normally sympathetic to black issues but it sucks for them

Anonymous Wed Feb 3 21:34:54 2021 No.12664523

>>12664016
>There have been multiple Anons telling you why that happens only very rarely.

There are more anons sharing various stories of psychiatrists hurting them, friends, or people they know.

>This is definitely personal for you.

What insight. You must be a genius that after all these threads you realized someone personally hurt by a psychiatrist has this as a personal issue. You should feel proud of such intellect that you figured that out after all these discussions.

>Society as a whole decides who gets forced into psych treatment

No, power tripping nurses do. Single individuals who are incredibly flawed and climbed their way up a corrupt ladder do. A few powerful individuals with interests in maintaining their power do.

>Why does psychiatry need to be abolished and not the police?

Because the police don't have the ability to fuck around with a person's brain structure or hold someone captive without them having committed a crime.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 21:37:55 2021 No.12664532 >>12655488 >So you believe you have the right to determine someone else's quality of life and force medications on them against their will?yep

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 21:45:11 2021 No.12664546 >>12657295 This is true for some institutions. They make patients undress, there's no privacy, nurses are rude, or some other issue.

>>	Anonymous Wed Feb 3 21:45:53 2021 No.12664547 >>12664532 I determine you are living a bad life and need some heavy drugs. What goes around comes around.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 00:32:00 2021 No.12664938

>>12664547
>I determine
A single person determines shit. It's an individual making the judgement call, but they do so after having received training and a privileged position. They can decide to forcefully hospitalize someone under power of certain laws and the case needs to fulfill the criteria decided by other people.
The patient also needs to do quite some crazy stuff to land in front of that person. As somebody will have to had a reason to send the patient there in the first place.

So you can rant and wish drugs upon me. It won't happes as I, like many other people, am not crazy.

You should ask yourself, why people keep telling you to take your meds no matter where you go or where you post.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 01:54:09 2021 No.12665199

>>12662707
>Psychiatry should be abolished and replaced with good doctors, better societies and wise philosophers. We live in a very dysfunctional low-trust world and we shouldn't be shocked that it produces damaged & confused people. Putting every malcontent on soma so they can tolerate it, is a sign how evil the world has become and enables further abuses without serious change. Many people would rather feel dishonestly about the world than to have normal reactions to bad things.
>Psychiatry votes on what is considered an illness and there's little international agreement, all these 'illnesses' are based on personality tests, race, gender and their class according to their assumed social role.
>The vast majority of the meds do not work without the psychosomatic factor. It's mercury tonics and lead elixirs all over again.
>They want treatment instead of cures, they do not want to heal anyone but keep them forever within the system. Often destroying people so they're thrown away, treated as little more than a demographic liability.
>The only reason psychiatry exists is because the government pays them to exist as a paralegal system to skirt around human rights and to silence malcontents to maintain the illusion of stability in an nuclear world.
>Having government shamans would probably be equally as effective, even more so since they aim to cure and are more honest with their methods rather than some cult of positivist partisans.

read the psyop

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 06:44:12 2021 No.12665840

Here is one study I read, one of a few...makes me wonder what the misdiagnosis of schizophrenia is to a bum who just miss a day or two worth of sleep+alcohol

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6048360/

i do not deny schizophrenia is not in the homeless population but i do question since sleeping conditions are not ideal and it could be these symptoms of sleep deprivation are just mimicking schizophrenia. psych quacks pick up on it and start using the homeless to test their lobotomy pills on them

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 06:56:11 2021 No.12665865

>>12653059
Psychiatrists should be (re)circumcised, then clamped until their brain function has diminished to where they can't scheme and project sufficient to take out their terror of their own inner demons on other people. The purpose of the (re)circumcision and (re)clamping is thus to amplify that desire to harm others, but render them too impotent to carry it out.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 07:22:30 2021 No.12665927 >>12662707 Huxley, the first guy to describe a clamping society, is totally unclamped as usual. He definitely saw the clamp.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 07:41:50 2021 No.12665966

Had a PNP administer a Genesight DNA test to help determine if I was on the best schizo meds for my DNA. She forgets to register her account on the website despite mailing it in and happens to leave the practice shortly after. Then COVID, and now I've teledoc'd with a psychiatrist who I haven't met in person before for about a year. Medication management, the absolute state of outpatient psychiatry in 2021. I think our "sessions" now average around 6-7 minutes.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 07:45:57 2021 No.12665970

>>12665927
>"Drapetomania" was a supposed mental illness described by American physician Samuel A. Cartwright in 1851 that caused black slaves to flee captivity.[52]:41
>In addition to inventing drapetomania, Cartwright prescribed a remedy. His feeling was that with "proper medical advice, strictly followed, this troublesome practice that many Negroes have of running away can be almost entirely prevented."[53]
In the case of slaves "sulky and dissatisfied without cause"—a warning sign of imminent flight—Cartwright prescribed "whipping the devil out of them" as a "preventative measure".[54][55][56] As a remedy for this disease, doctors also made running a physical impossibility by prescribing the removal of both big toes.[52]:42 Cartwright also proposed "dysaesthesia aethiopica" as a mental illness that caused laziness among slaves.

>In 1972, psychologist David Rosenhan published the Rosenhan experiment, a study questioning the validity of psychiatric diagnoses.[65]
>The study arranged for eight individuals with no history of psychopathology to attempt admission into psychiatric hospitals. The individuals included a graduate student, psychologists, an artist, a housewife, and two physicians, including one psychiatrist.
All eight individuals were admitted with a diagnosis of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Psychiatrists then attempted to treat the individuals using psychiatric medication.
>All eight were discharged within 7 to 52 days. In a later part of the study, psychiatric staff were warned that pseudo-patients might be sent to their institutions, but none were actually sent. Nevertheless, a total of 83 patients out of 193 were believed by at least one staff member to be actors.
The study concluded that individuals without mental disorders were indistinguishable from those suffering from mental disorders.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 08:16:35 2021 No.12666027

>>12653059
>What does /sci/ think about psychiatry?
It depends. I'll give an example. If I asked everyone "what do you think about medicine?". Modern medicine, as I learned at university, is called "evidence-based medicine". Consequently, some things that most americans would say is not medicine is actually medicine, and something things that a minority of people would say is medicine is actually not medicine (such as homeopathy).
When you ask about psychiatry it is my view that you are asking about psychiatry in general, as opposed to evidence based psychiatry which uses the scientific method to establish the effectiveness of different talking therapies versus chemical therapies versus transcranial magnetic stimulation vs etc etc etc.
The part of psychiatry that falls outside of evidence based medicine I consider trash, such as hypnotherapy (which in the studies I have seen performs no better than placebo). The psychiatry (which falls within evidence based medicine) I consider legit; for example [anti-depressants] vs [antidepressants+cognitive behavioural therapy], where antidepressants+CBT is more effective than antidepressants alone.
>Is it ethical to lock people up and drug them against their will?
It depends on the circumstances. People are generally only "locked up" or sectioned when they are a danger to themselves or to others.
I think people have a right to die by physician-assisted suicide. If someone wants to kill themselves, and they are not suffering from an evidence-based condition, then I think they should be allowed to have physician assisted suicide.
Say they are bipolar, and when they are not manic or depressed they state that they want to be sectioned (kept in a hospital) when they are suicidal. Is it ethical to allow them to suicide when they are suicidal? Arguably not. So it's not a clear cut case, and I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it. I'm mostly just typing up what I recall from my studies, and my own opinions.
Continued >>>

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 08:17:37 2021 No.12666032

>>12666027
The other situation is when they are a danger to others.
If we assume that a person is not a danger to themselves, but is a danger to others, then arguably it is ethical to isolate them. Though I would argue that the conditions they are isolated in should be much better. One piece of fiction I read had a piece of land (probably the size of a US state) where people could be sent if they were deemed a hazard to society. They could set up their own society there if they so wanted. And if the person didn't want to be there, then they would have to consent to therapy; which in this book was a future advancement that was 100% successful in altering a persons brain/mind.
In this case, it answers your ethical question about treating them against their will. My opinion is that we force treatment on people because it is more economical to do so. Or rather, it is the equilibrium point between ethics and economics. Should we do everything we can to treat an individual called "John" who wants treatment? Arguably yes. Should we do it if it costs half the global GDP every year just to offer the best treatment to John? Arguably no.
Also don't reply to me if your post is going to be less than one paragraph, or it is going to be low quality.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 08:34:44 2021 No.12666078

>>12664546
Plenty of stories of teenage girls being belt restrained for 40+ hours in nothing but paper gowns alone in a room where the light is never turned off with a camera on them, force fed on schedule, peeing/defecating into trays which male nurses/techs would hold between their legs.
All this could have started because the girl felt a little traumatised from being bullied at school and had cut herself a little. I'm sure the psychiatric stay must have healed her.
Also, if you decline your daily chemical lobotomy you end up punished/restrained as above or getting an injection by force with extra sedation.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 08:41:49 2021 No.12666094 Other then schizophrenia, I wouldn't consider mental illness to be real.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 08:41:49 2021 No.12666095 >>12653059 >Is it ethical to lock people up and drug them against their will? Psychiatrists are a danger to other people so yes

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 08:51:40 2021 No.12666126

>>12666078
>All this could have started because the girl felt a little traumatised from being bullied at school and had cut herself a little
One of the classes I had was on the topic of borderline personality disorder. Patients with the condition often cut. The hypothesis is that it causes endorphine release that comforts them. There is no real treatment for borderline personality disorder, the current best practice is lamatrogine, which does no better than placebo, but the placebo effect is better than no treatment.
The discussion was on the relative merits of letting a patient cut when it is effective, versus sectioning for self harm. I dont recall anyone who thought it clearly merited sectioning, or anyone who thought it clearly merited letting them cut. My impression (from what I can recall) is that we all thought the situation was fucked, but that either option was roughly equivalent in benefit/cost and so letting them cut is their decision and so is the correct option.

>>12666094
What makes you think this? I haven't had a good chance to talk to someone who has the point of view, so I don't really understand the view point.
I remember being a child and watching TV shows where characters had psych illnesses, and not understanding the psych illness (because I didn't have the illness). But I don't recall whether I thought mental illness doesn't exist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 09:00:53 2021 No.12666150 >>12655415 Aleister Crowley said you can kill anyone who doesn't let you do what thou wilt, so locking some schizo up is totally ethical

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 09:04:29 2021 No.12666162

>>12666078
While that doesn't sound ok, cutting yourself is a detrimental and generally retarded reaction. I mean, how the hell is that supposed to help you if you're bullied? Just cut the fucks who are bullying you or something, if you're young enough, you aren't going to prison for that.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 09:36:41 2021 No.12666227

>>12666027
>evidence-based medicine
Replication crisis. Model hacking.

>>12666126
>Patients with the condition often cut
Doesn't mean people who cut have BPD, but of course there are "professionals" who would think that and that gives them justification to drug and "treat" them. If a girl has daddy issues she is certain to have BPD.

>>12666162
>While that doesn't sound ok
That's an understatement.
It basically starts the lifelong cycle of psychiatric "care" with multiple forced stays, side effects of 20+ drugs and electroshock therapy (which is often described as the most traumatic forced therapy).
>you're young enough, you aren't going to prison for that.
You will almost certainly go to psych for that instead which is worse than prison. If not you go juvenile which is just a thing in between.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 09:41:01 2021 No.12666235 >>12653059 In Germany and I think also other EU countries you can protect yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYt76SSaMfU Does something like this exist in the USA?

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 09:54:57 2021 No.12666254

>>12666235
here is an english version, but it is referencing german laws, so maybe you can make it effective in your country by changing a couple of things
https://www.patverfue.de/media/patverfue-en_neu.pdf

there is also a customizable rtf file on the website:
https://www.patverfue.de/formular

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:00:32 2021 No.12666263

>>12666235
Only if you're an adult.
If you're a child your parents can decline but child "protective" services will step in then.
Still, as an adult a doctor can write red papers on you if he/she "thinks" you're a risk to yourself or others. And still then European psychiatry deals in a lot of coercion and lying to make you "willingly" sign away your rights.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:11:03 2021 No.12666291 I think the "Patverfü" protects you even if you are a risk to yourself or others it even hinders them to give you a diagnosis, so without a diagnosis what meds can they possibly give you, and what reason do they have to hold you there

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:18:43 2021 No.12666305

>>12666227
>Replication crisis. Model hacking.
Somewhat true. I haven't looked deeply into it, but essentially you do what the evidence suggests until you know better. Still better than the alternatives.

>>12666227
>Doesn't mean people who cut have BPD
I didn't say that it did mean that. And I don't condone the shit conditions people are put in when they are sectioned. That was another thing addressed in classes, case studies on the abusive conditions of a lot of mental health care facilities with regards to sectioned patients.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:23:23 2021 No.12666314 >>12666291 Is this common knowledge in Germany? I haven't heard anything similar in Australia. Lawyers don't even do anything.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:41:57 2021 No.12666366

>>12666305
>I haven't looked deeply into it
I can tell you, of any field psychology was the greatest offender of p-hacking.
Psychology is the greatest offender in the ongoing replication crisis, closely followed by medicine (so basically psychiatry).
The model hacking crisis has barely begun but medicine sticks out like a sore thumb.
Psychology shouldn't even be called a science and parts of medicine shouldn't either (including psychiatry). Both rely so heavily on epidemiology which has been proven to be weak.

> case studies on the abusive conditions of a lot of mental health care facilities
And people think those abusive conditions are of the past because we closed the asylums. Truth is it just got a new veneer.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:47:58 2021 No.12666386

>>12666366
>I can tell you
>Both rely so heavily on epidemiology which has been proven to be weak.
This is why the best standard of work is to do meta-analyses and look at tree plots for publication bias. And why there is a push for registering all your experimental plans before performing the experiment, and then publishing all the data and every result, even if it is negative.
Again, it is better to perform medical work with research that is largely "true" (ie has passed replication and meta analysis) than to perform medicine based on pseudoscience.
Unless you have some alternative that works better than current medicine and psychiatry?

>>12666366
>And people think those abusive conditions are of the past because we closed the asylums. Truth is it just got a new veneer.
Yeah, most people are retarded bruh

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:48:54 2021 No.12666389 >>12666126 Why the fuck is it called sectioning?

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 10:57:20 2021 No.12666418

>>12666389
>Why the fuck is it called sectioning?
Section is the informal term. Its used because it has 2 syllables instead of involuntary commitment (8 syllables), civil commitment (5 syllables), or involuntary hospitalization (11 syllables). I'm not going to read thoroughly about it. I would guess it's called sectioning because it is a provision of a SECTION of a particular piece of legislation. So when you section someone you are using that section of the mental health act

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 11:04:20 2021 No.12666439

>>12666386
>This is why the best standard of work is to do meta-analyses and look at tree plots for publication bias. And why there is a push for registering all your experimental plans before performing the experiment, and then publishing all the data and every result, even if it is negative.
Yep people say that's how it should be but when rubber meets the road they don't do it.
You're competing against thousands of other researchers in a rat race and thousands of established old researchers who don't want to be discredited (who also holds the power to elevate those they like). And then you have the money of big pharma working against you.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 11:14:22 2021 No.12666473

>>12664523
>Because the police don't have the ability to fuck around with a person's brain structure or hold someone captive without them having committed a crime.
The police can force you in a cell until you come off whatever drugs you have. They can also take you in if there is reason to suspect you're going to be a danger. They can do their stuff without you having broken laws.

Psychiatrists also are regulated by laws. They can get you locked up because of laws, in fact. Or why did your psychiatrist have to take you before a judge?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 11:18:01 2021 No.12666487 >>12665970 >185 fucking 1. 170 years of advancement ignored, just because this guy can't contain his crazy around normies. Who, let's face it, are super self centered.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 12:10:02 2021 No.12666642

>>12666439
I agree with your post.
Fortunately there are some well respected researchers who are pushing for this kind of change. iirc there was some nobel winner who now only publishes in open access journals, a kind of rebellion against paywalls and all that bullshit.
It seems also that more scientists are pushing for preregistering studies
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/09/more-and-more-scientists-are-preregistering-their-studies-should-you
The other things that need to be done are to reduce incentives to publish garbage low-quality studies or p-hack. The first by reducing publish-or-perish culture, the second by pre-registration, and in total a more strict peer review process.
At least at the universities i went to, this was a subject matter that was discussed and lectures and talks were given on it. Really it needs more time for the changes to occur, greater activism and spreading of information. Change doesn't happen over night, and there is a lot of cause for optimism that scientific research will improve; especially given how much money was lost due to the covid pandemic, and how much better things could have been with better a better science sector and more science funding.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 13:17:11 2021 No.12666826

>>12666642
Yeah it's great that there are such researchers. I know I'm a bit doom and gloom but often I see the output rate of bad research being far higher than that of good research. Good research is getting buried and at times it's difficult to cut away all the bullshit.

Yeah there is usually a small mandatory course for students which takes a meta perspective on their major, usually done by someone from the philosophy department, and there there will typically be a part about the falsities of their major. But then the rest of the degree program, 99%, will be about memorizing and reciting the same old stuff without question.
They still teach the chemical imbalance hypothesis as if it is fact.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 13:47:21 2021 No.12666920 >>12655342 No, it's unethical, because they drug them up by medication that causes brain malfunction, and most of patients didn't had brain malfunction, and haven't need "help" just psychiater need cash money he makes on them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 13:48:51 2021 No.12666928 >>12655543 But having own opinion, that's not even dangerous, is sticking out negatively to psychiater.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 13:49:53 2021 No.12666931 >>12655543 How it comes, where I live psychiatric hospital is always full, and they always finds new patients, can you explain that one?

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 13:50:54 2021 No.12666935 >>12657265 They sometimes live more responsibly than people that are "taking care of them". e.g. I was kinda preparing for viral apocalypse since 2010 and nobody listened and people are on psychiatry for reasons just like that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 13:52:24 2021 No.12666943 To be honest, psychiatric medication causes brain damage and psychosis, and there's a lot of patients that ware damaged by psychiatry they haven't need.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 13:53:42 2021 No.12666950 >>12666473 So psychiatry is being arrested for future crime you haven't yet commited because psychiater got paranoia you're dangerous? It's them who should take pills, not their patients.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 14:18:32 2021 No.12667052

>>12666826
>Yeah there is usually a small mandatory course for students which takes a meta perspective on their major, usually done by someone from the philosophy department, and there there will typically be a part about the falsities of their major
I'm not an amerimeme. All of our lectures were given by researchers or clinicians, depending on what the lecture was on.
Maybe that's how it is in american universities, I wouldn't know.
I don't recall any imbalance dogmas when I was studying. It was mostly stuff like alleles for different receptors correlate with higher risk of ADHD, binding of radioligands for PET indicate reduced receptor binding by neurotransmitters, and so on. If i remember correctly, you can do a radio-raclopride binding PET with and without a drug which stimulates dopamine release, and/or maybe a drug which inhibits release. Then you measure radioligand binding in normal/inhibited/stimulated dopamine states, then do a ratio to determine the difference. So when raclopride binds a dopamine receptor when dopamine release is inhibited, we get a map of all the dopamine receptors. Then after raclopride has washed out we stimulate dopamine release, administer raclopride, and compare the PET scans. In some mental illnesses we find radioligand binding doesn't decrease much compared to controls, supporting the hypothesis that dopamine levels are low.
It may be that you're looking too much at the trash side of psych research, which I personally avoid. I stick largely to neuropsych, when I bother with psych at all. It's pretty boring in a lot of cases desu

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 14:26:03 2021 No.12667082 >>12653059 >>12653059 >>12653059 test

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 14:31:50 2021 No.12667117

>>12666227
Generally, society always fucks you up if you show you're deviant. More "advanced" societies won't probably lock you up outright but you'll still be marking yourself a prey for people who learned to fake smiles instead of cutting themselves. All societies are still built upon the foundation of violence and dehumanization and you're better off realizing the system won't react to calls to attention made in a retarded manner favorably as soon as you can. You either find a way to conceal your mental illness, or work to overcome it, everything else is detrimental in the long run.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 14:37:36 2021 No.12667138 >>12666950 Are you actually incapable of understanding anything but your own ravings? Fuck me, you're obsessed.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 14:53:08 2021 No.12667192

>>12667052
>I'm not an amerimeme
Neither am I

All the pathway stuff is cool but what immediately jumps out to me and that I cannot stop myself from diving into is how you came up with the mental illness group and now you're into psych. And then it's just all correlation and difficult to draw a causal relationship.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 14:54:10 2021 No.12667194 >>12667117 >All societies are still built upon the foundation of violence and dehumanization That's deep

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 15:20:43 2021 No.12667259

>>12667192
>is how you came up with the mental illness group and now you're into psych
What do you mean?
If you mean how in general mental illness was defined and then we get neuropsych?
Generally we only call things which cause a person suffering or discomfort a disease or a disorder. This is part of why some autism-spectrum individuals are arguing that it's not necessarily a disorder, but rather an atypicality.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who fits the diagnostic criteria for OCD, schizophrenia, depression, tourettes, bipolar, etc and doesn't find themselves suffering. Whereas things like synesthesia, aphantasia, hyperthymesia, etc aren't considered disorders since people don't really suffer due to them. That's part of why, to involuntarily hospitalise someone, you need to be able to prove they lack capacity to make decisions. That's why the borderline personality cutters aren't sectioned, because they dont lack capacity, whereas most severe schizophrenics do.

I don't know if i answered your question.

Also with regards to correlation and causation, as our tech improves we can get very precise causal relationships. Like stopping a certain brain area from functioning using transcranial magnetic stimulation can stop the symptoms

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 16:58:37 2021 No.12667638

>>12667138
Maybe I understand and you don't. You again don't have any more value than: "You don't understand". Which is ultimately bullshit. It just means you runned out of arguments and we are not telepaths, so I could read your mind.

You're psychotic, paranoid, and pathetic.

And yes: Psychiatrist are most "hallucinating and paranoid" kind of human, and they pull out their "diagnosis" out of thin air.

>>	Anonymous Thu Feb 4 17:00:13 2021 No.12667649 >>12667052 Your "manual" for knowing dopamine levels is flawed, because neither way, you can find out important stuff by this research.

Anonymous Thu Feb 4 17:08:31 2021 No.12667699

>>12667638
Can you provide us an actual source for your opinion on psychiatrist that isn't your lunacy?
No, you can't. You scream they're demons and that's all.

Let me reiterate then. Psychiatrists are specialists who have privileges under the law to treat those afflicted with mental health issues. Since severe cases exist that need help to not be a danger to themselves or others, emergency powers need to be granted someone by society to deal with these people. Since a lot of the severe cases are also unwilling to seek treatment -often caused by their illness-, treatment has to happen without consent in these cases.
This is functionally no different to the police having certain powers vested into them to fulfill their function.

Calling a whole profession a "hallucinating and paranoid" kind of human doesn't make you sound credible. It seems that the diagnosis that was given to you wasn't pulled out of thin air the way you behave here.
Notice that I'm solely talking about the contents of your posts.

Now renew your prescription, man. Or get it over with and buy a gun to end yourself with. Your parents would be relieved either way.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 03:37:56 2021 No.12669634 >>12667649 >Your "manual" for knowing dopamine levels is flawed, because neither way, you can find out important stuff by this research. Can you write this again? It reads like a drunk person wrote it

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 04:13:08 2021 No.12669666 >>12667699 >Calling a whole profession a "hallucinating and paranoid" kind of human doesn't make you sound credible. How so? What if You say so about, IDK, astrologists?

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 04:53:26 2021 No.12669732

>>12663412
>doing eccentric shits while you're scrutinized for agressive behavior
This lack of self-awarness alone makes you potentialy dangerous
Put yourself into this psychatrist's shoes, and keep in mind if they decide to let you go scot free and you do some crazy shit afterward, it's going to be their problem too
You brought this upon yourself

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 06:06:55 2021 No.12669870

>>12669732
It wasn't only the pychiatrist in this story There's also a nurse, his assailant(s) and a judge who all agreed with the psychiatrists asessment. Ok, his assailant might not care, but you get my point.

>>12669666
How are they paranoid or hallucinating? Wrong, naive, suffering from confirmation bias, sure, but paranoid? They don't hallucinate the stars.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 08:41:17 2021 No.12670129

>>12653059
it's not ethical (or moral maybe) for people to not be given a universal basic income
>>12654875
i agree. things will get better for mentally ill people when they get better for all people which may happen as time goes by
i think there will be a ubi sometime. since there is no ubi, that means that society doesn't care if people starve to death on the street or not, and society doesn't care if people go crazy
>>12663791
i partially agree with the second sentence. to quote "the entire system" does "abuse" people "because nobody holds people with authority accountable"
>>12666943
i kinda agree with this too
>>12667117
i kinda agree with this too. this post is pretty insightful.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 08:50:33 2021 No.12670153 >>12666943 i kinda agree with this post but the spelling and grammatical errors make you look stupid which does not make what you're saying look credible

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 12:19:34 2021 No.12670604 >>12653059 Where you the schitzo that got into a fight with your mom and we’re “forced” to go the mental hospital?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 12:27:07 2021 No.12670629 >>12658550 You have no self control. I have a chemical imbalance also and yeah it fucking sucks but I’m doing really well. Take the meds on time everyday so you don’t turn into your piece of shit mother/father

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 12:32:47 2021 No.12670654 >>12663412 Why were you cornered?

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 15:00:44 2021 No.12671226

>>12670654
Because an aggressor advanced upon me while I was in a corner.

The police were called and lied to that I was the aggressor. The physical evidence of the room was ignored. The entire experience my side of the story was ignored. It is simply all about who calls the cops first. One thing I learned from this experience is that most people do not care about facts or evidence. This includes my psychiatrist who did not care about evidence or reason.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 15:03:53 2021 No.12671236

>>12669870
The first psychiatrist I interviewed with disagreed with all of that. She however was removed from the situation. Judges in my state are known to be corrupt and that trial was a sham. That's not just my opinion but the opinion of my public defender and a paralegal that was witness.

Most of the hospital staff was on my side. The psychiatrist denied having their notes entered into the hearing.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 15:04:56 2021 No.12671239 >>12669732 Meditation is one of the healthiest activities a person can do, especially with regards to aggression. What does it say about you and the psychiatrist that you think the opposite?

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 15:12:56 2021 No.12671271

>>12666473
>Psychiatrists also are regulated by laws.

Funny thing that. The law says they are required to show me the petition within a certain time frame. Despite the fact I requested to see it many times, they failed to do so. As I have said, they don't care about the law because they are never held accountable.

Hopefully my human rights complaint gets traction.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 15:37:57 2021 No.12671340 >>12671239 Yeah Im sure you're telling us everything and the only reason they put you on meds was because you meditated

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 15:48:16 2021 No.12671390

>>12671226
The room? last thread you claimed your Indian neighbours called the cops after you confronted them when they annoyed you.

>>12671236
The psychiatrist that never saw you in person? Yeah...

>>12671340
This guy has been making these threads non-stop on /sci/ whenever one has ended.

Reminder, this guy thought people got him locked up because he wanted to play the piano.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IehtMYlOuIk

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 15:59:22 2021 No.12671424

>>12671390
>Reminder, this guy thought people got him locked up because he wanted to play the piano.
It's sad that these people have no grasp on reality at all. Wish we knew more about how to manipulate our neural pathways and neurochemistry to allow people to recognize and understand reality better.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 16:49:04 2021 No.12671613 >>12669634 Radio labeling doesn't let you know the important data, such as if dopamine is active on receptor, it can be in presynaptic cleft, etc... Also it doesn't measure how pills cause dopamine problems in head.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 16:50:06 2021 No.12671619 >>12671271 Where to submit such things?

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 17:33:28 2021 No.12671791 >>12671619 You would have to find it for your state. Look up 'Human Rights Counsel' for your state. I only found it because the public defender for my appeal referred me to it and she seems very sharp.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 17:37:12 2021 No.12671813

>>12671390
>last thread you claimed your Indian neighbours called the cops after you confronted them when they annoyed you.

My my. I think you have a severe case of hallucinations. You really ought to be on medications. You make up wild fantasies and then believe in them.

You could prove this wrong by linking me to where I said that, but I've explained the situation multiple times. None of them were anywhere close to that. You seem to spend all of your time patrolling /sci/ for anything criticizing the status quo.

>The psychiatrist that never saw you in person?

What's wrong with a video conference in the days of Covid19? Additionally you are the one complaining about how limited resources are. You should be championing such force multipliers. More proof you are a delusional hypocrite.

>>12671340
As all the psychiatric apologists are in this thread are prone to, you put words in other peoples' mouths. I simply said she used that as evidence against me in court. You two are seriously out of touch if you think any of this is persuasive to neutral third party observers.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 17:39:33 2021 No.12671821

>>12671390
>Reminder, this guy thought people got him locked up because he wanted to play the piano.

He says people locked him up because he sits and stands differently. You then criticize him for what amounts to as an accent (odd cadence). He's more rational than you are. I really pray you piss the wrong person off and have a petition signed against you. It would end up horribly for you.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 18:10:40 2021 No.12671912

>>12671813
>>12641302
The thread of you sperging is still online, you know.

Strange how your behaviour sticks out even in anonymity.

A video conference doesn't have the same feedback as an in person meeting.

>>12671821
1:19 to ~ 2:20

The guy was ill and in need of help. Plain to see. Your claim that he's just a bit different is not believable at all.

Before a person has a petition to get locked up in a loony bin signed against them, a lot more must happen than you claim. Nothing will happen to me as I can keep my calm around normies, like a non crazy person.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 18:47:51 2021 No.12672029 >>12671912 >Strange how your behaviour sticks out even in anonymity. Wasn't me. You have delusions that you are psychic. Take your meds, schizo.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 18:50:22 2021 No.12672034

>>12671912
>1:19 to ~ 2:20
>The guy was ill and in need of help. Plain to see. Your claim that he's just a bit different is not believable at all.

We have more anons saying that than we do on your side. The timestamp you referred to has him saying, "I'm not completely like other people." You seemingly hate him for that fact.

I think you are a cruel and twisted person. You really need to be removed from society.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 19:24:32 2021 No.12672144

>>12672034
His interview partner asks him what makes him different. Can you guess what he specifies in the one minute I timestamped?

You ignore everything that doesn't fit your preconceived worldview.

I am so happy that the large, specialized institutions of your nation managed to get you into treatment programs. They did a good job for you. Hope you find the help you need that you stop wishing harm upon others. If you work on it, you could even manage your persecution complex, that single individuals decide these things on their own, free from checks and balances.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 19:33:46 2021 No.12672169 >>12662614 >Is it unethical to force a citizen to sell some of his land -with laughable """compensation"""-, so that politicians can let their cronies build townhouses for fat kickbacks? neoliberals get the bullet first.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 19:34:33 2021 No.12672173

>>12672144
>Can you guess what he specifies in the one minute I timestamped?

No need to guess, I watched it. He says he's pursuing a different kind of life, which influences his thoughts and actions. Just because the psychiatrist continues to ask questions until he reaches something you find absurd doesn't negate the entire minute of very coherent, very spot on answers.

>You ignore everything that doesn't fit your preconceived worldview.

Projection from someone that is incapable of self-reflection or empathy.

> They did a good job for you.

You base this opinion on what? Your psychic powers? Let's see how my appeal and human rights complaint go. If they find in my favor would you reverse your opinion?

Also I am only wishing you to be treated the way you are appraising others. You are unable to see your own malice and project it onto me. You wish these things on strangers and are offended when strangers want you to experience what you have been defending.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 19:54:43 2021 No.12672231 >>12653059 >Is it ethical to lock people up and drug them against their will? Yes. If you don't do it, you'll end up with a bunch of pschotic drug addicts assaulting people in the streets just like California.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 20:05:09 2021 No.12672268 >>12672231 Both drug use and assault are illegal. Nobody is arguing against imprisoning criminals. The question is whether people like the man in this video >>12671390 Should be forced into extended detainment simply for being abnormal.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 20:09:18 2021 No.12672278 >>12672268 >Nobody is arguing against imprisoning criminals. Lol. Were you under a rock all of last year or something? That's all they do here and that was before the BLM race riots.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 20:12:03 2021 No.12672285 >>12653059 As long as you're not corrupt and don't fuck patients, carry on but be careful

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 20:12:06 2021 No.12672286 >>12672278 Most people aren't anarchists

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 20:12:54 2021 No.12672290

>>12672278

I meant on /sci/ and in these threads. Of course there are parts of our society so far gone that they will detain you for not kneeling for a protester while letting violent criminals go free and making a martyrs out of homicidal drug dealers.

Psychiatry is one method this madness is enforced.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 20:16:14 2021 No.12672299 >>12672286 Agreed. But that doesn't stop politicians from arguing that the streets are the best place for criminals and the mentally ill and then enacting policies based upon that mentality.

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 21:07:38 2021 No.12672447

>>12672299
I think that's a disingenuous thing to say. If by "streets" you mean "not a mental hospital or prison" you may have somewhat of a point. but nobody likes living on the actual streets. usually people like to live in buildings. also nobody is going to keep criminals and the mentally ill in mental hospitals or prisons forever unless they've committed serious crimes, and then well, you can argue about that, but not all criminals or mentally ill people commit serious crimes that would require locking them up for life, so they wouldn't spend the rest of their lives in a mental hospital or jail, so yes, they would go to "the streets" as you have said in a manner that's so easy to understand

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 21:11:53 2021 No.12672456
File: 138 KB, 1024x852, 1521318950121.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Guys I have bipolar 1 but my manic episodes feels so amazing, I get into a zen like state where I appreciate everything about life. Then I can't sleep and have to get put in a psych ward. I rather be manic than the normal drugged depressed version but unfortunately that's not practical.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 21:13:50 2021 No.12672458 Bill Gates's house is on the "street" when normal people say "street", they usually mean an actual street when police say "street", they mean "not in jail"

Anonymous Fri Feb 5 21:15:45 2021 No.12672464

>>12672456
Learn to meditate. That should help you learn to control yourself during a peak.

My mania's are induced by marijuana. I love them. I'm more productive, have wondrous trains of thoughts.

Psychiatry seems to think people need to be machines that operate like clockwork.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 21:19:31 2021 No.12672476 >>12672464 I see brother I have taken up meditation, I have adhd I think also, so I try mantra meditation.

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 21:19:55 2021 No.12672479 >>12672476 There's more below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwfxkkxFsnQ

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 23:39:51 2021 No.12672808 I really want to kill the pajeet psychiatrist treating me. fucking shitskin

>>	Anonymous Fri Feb 5 23:43:20 2021 No.12672816 lol psychiatrists and psychologists are trash, often mentally ill themselves. Meditation is the only thing that works

>>	El Arcón Sat Feb 6 01:21:19 2021 No.12672983 >>12653059 >Is it ethical to lock people up and drug them against their will? Most of the time when this happens, it is unethical.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 03:36:30 2021 No.12673208

>>12672173
>projection
Experience with you. No matter how troubled a patient, how sincere an afflicted talking about their own issues, you claim reasons why that doesn't count.

Your case won't go in your favour. Believe me.

https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/schizophrenia-paranoia

You exhibit the signs of somebody with paranoid schizophrenia.

Case in point, your interpretation of my position on forced hospitalisation. You believe it's because I personally want to people locked up that I find strange. No, I want trained people to make these decisions on a case by case basis. Big difference.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 07:32:25 2021 No.12673591 >>12672983 check the /med/ thread, i just baited a retard into suggesting an antipsychotic because he's irritated fuck doctors, beta ass faggots. >>12673527

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 08:11:32 2021 No.12673681 File: 113 KB, 1500x1500, 1611611162974.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12673591 >taking posts on 4chins serious You really are a danger to yourself unsupervised.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 08:14:05 2021 No.12673690 >>12673681 What is it you’re afraid I’ll do exactly?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 08:18:10 2021 No.12673699 File: 1.19 MB, 3000x1996, 1596092797448.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12673690 Try to make crystals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 08:49:00 2021 No.12673747 >>12671912 >The guy was ill and in need of help. Plain to see. >I cannot relate with this guy so he needs to be removed. Plain to see.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 08:56:38 2021 No.12673757 >>12673208 >You believe it's because I personally want to people locked up that I find strange. In English?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 08:58:59 2021 No.12673760 >>12673208 >No, I want trained people to make these decisions on a case by case basis. Big difference. See this other user: >>12673747

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 09:04:15 2021 No.12673777 >>12673208 >No, I want trained people to make these decisions on a case by case basis. Big difference. You say that as you try to diagnose someone with paranoid schizophrenia over 4chan... You are clearly in deep psychosis.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 09:14:10 2021 No.12673797

>>12673777
>>12673760
>>12673757
>>12673747
The samefagging.

1.
>taking posts on 4chins serious
Actual brain damage.
2. he needs help =/= he needs to be removed becaue he offends me.
3. There are thousands of schizophrenia patients out there that have detailed their experiences with both their illness and treatment. If you don't believe in the existence of schizophrenia, it's you, not us.
4. Thank god you have been committed at least once already, so now your medical history is known.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNDBInn5neE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV0zrV36-sY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdNJ3RZg6Dw

If you truly believe that the psychiatrists got you on medicine, which then gave you brain damage, explain to us how you got into a position for a psychiatrist to force you on these pills. What happened between you being normal and you being as you are now?

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 09:25:36 2021 No.12673817

>>12673797
>The samefagging.
I'm literally only No. 12673747 you schizo.

>he needs help =/= he needs to be removed becaue he offends me.

That's exactly what you're saying. You don't like how he is so you want to change him. And you're doing this under the guise of "helping". You're under the delusion that you're doing it for his sake.
Just like so many other evil people in history you're paving your way to hell with good intentions.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 09:34:04 2021 No.12673831

>>12673817
I'm actually doing nothing, but I do support the structures in society that take care of these people, give those in need a minimum of care and attention. Like I do support the police, fire departments and zoning regulations in my nations cities.
It's you who is ascribing personal malice beyond that.

Do you think that makes me evil? Sure you do, but unlike many others I have seen, spoken and interacted with actual schizophrenics in real life. People that heard fake voices, suffered from the delusion that another person spoke to them ,was in the room, had conversations with that person. Schizophrenia is real and not just being "a bit different".

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 09:54:59 2021 No.12673875

>>12673831
>I'm actually doing nothing
And now you say you're doing nothing. First you want something done and now it's the opposite.

>It's you who is ascribing personal malice
It's you who take it that way.

Look we are anti-psychiatry but you're obsessed with schizophrenics and has a total tunnel vision for that so you derail the thread. If someone wants help then helped they shall be but you go far beyond that. If someone doesn't want your "help" then it's not help.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 10:01:45 2021 No.12673887

>>12673875
The post you're quoting is already adressing most of your concerns.

>If someone doesn't want "help" then it's not help.
Mental illness can make people very adverse to seeking treatment and a danger to themselves and others. In these cases they absolutely need help. It's necessary. So tell me, how would you deal with these cases?

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 10:43:47 2021 No.12673977

>>12673887
>The post you're quoting is already adressing most of your concerns.
No it's not, you're sidestepping as usual.

>Mental illness can make people very adverse to seeking treatment
What you don't seem to realise is that that can be applied to anybody for anything. I'm telling you right now that you need to be belt restrained for 48 hours and have electroshock therapy. You don't want that? (I'll guess that on your part) Then that must be because you are treatment adverse from a mental illness and because you have a mental illness then you need my treatment.
You see how someone declining your "help" reinforces your false belief that they have a mental illness?
>I think he has a mental illness and he doesn't want my help. His mental illness is worse than I thought!

>danger to themselves and others
You don't know that.

>In these cases they absolutely need help. It's necessary.
It's not help and you need to recognise that.

This an important question to you: What do you do when you have "helped" somebody against their will, they have come out on the other side, and now they tell you that you didn't help them but that you hurt them?

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 11:14:04 2021 No.12674065
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>>12673977
>you're sidestepping
That post explained my position on how and who should do something like forced hospitalisation. It's not me deciding who gets treatment or not, but schooled people following a legal procedure.

>I'm telling you right now that you need to be belt restrained for 48 hours and have electroshock therapy.
Well, here's the thing, you aren't a trained professional, nor do you have legal authority to do so or was I taken by the cops to see you.

You can't seem to grasp the difference between the wants and actions of the individual and the mechanisms of society as a whole.

>they tell you that you didn't help them but that you hurt them?
Check if that's really the case. Improve the methods. Possibly compensate them for the hurt. How is this different than any other medical error?

Now what will you do with people that are a danger to themselves or others? Or have to be reasonably assumed to be so, since you accuse my side of trying to read the future.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 11:53:50 2021 No.12674184

>>12674065
>schooled people following a legal procedure.
We are questioning the schooling and what should be legal. We are not the sheep Auschwitz guard "just following orders".
A degree doesn't make you smart and law doesn't make it right.

>Well, here's the thing, you aren't a trained professional, nor do you have legal authority
Well you don't know that and here is the thing: You can't refute my counterpoint.

>You can't seem to grasp the difference between the wants and actions of the individual and the mechanisms of society as a whole.
I can but you're also writing nonsense.

>Check if that's really the case.
See now you're into circular method again. You're confirming your bias, you'll double down with "He needs another round of my help!". I can tell you that's exactly what victims of psychiatry report. There is victim blaming and "of course the psychiatrist has done nothing wrong, because how could he? He is a pRoFeSsIoNaL!"
And honestly you don't know what's real.

>Improve the methods.
Rarely happens. Like you're not improving right now.

>How is this different than any other medical error?
Psychiatry isn't anything near being objective. You cannot establish error in psychiatry. Psychiatry is set up so that it can do almost nothing wrong and that's the criticism of it.

You don't even know what the criticisms of psychiatry is. Why are you even here?

>Now what will you do with people that are a danger to themselves or others?
I'm questioning what you mean is a case of someone being a danger to themselves or others. That's important for your interpretation of my answer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 12:11:11 2021 No.12674230 >>12674065 In summary you're the literal embodiment of appeal to authority fallacy. We in the thread are discussing the methodology of psychiatry (the lack thereof) and you're unable to go to such abstract.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 12:11:15 2021 No.12674231

>>12673797
>If you don't believe in the existence of schizophrenia, it's you, not us.
>explain to us

This schizo thinks he's multiple people now.

I've explained my situation numerous times in the last several threads you've been bombarding. Because you seem to be mentally deficient there is no point in repeating myself.

I have repeatedly said I do believe in mental illness exists. This does not change the fact the psychiatrist I saw had issues in abusing her authority or the fact that the psychiatric apparatus is merely a scheme to force medications on people for profit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 12:52:56 2021 No.12674340 >>12673797 Most people between being normal and being locked up, got an monetizable idea, which somebody else later monetized when they ware locked up.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 12:55:00 2021 No.12674349

>>12674184
>A degree doesn't make you smart and law doesn't make it right.
Never claimed that. But we wouldn't put crime fighting or the legal system in the hands of amateurs either. So it is better for trained people to take care of these cases than for untrained and some cases simply need care.

>You can't refute my counterpoint.
Your "counterpoint" has been refuted over and over again. It's just a personal attack. You equate personal animosity to a whole sector of health care.

>See now you're into circular method again.
Again, how is any of what I wrote different to any other case of medical malpractice? You think dentists take the people that sue them at their word?

>I'm questioning what you mean is a case of someone being a danger to themselves or others. That's important for your interpretation of my answer.
No, just answer my question. I'm not getting into word games of what constitutes danger.

>>12674230
>appeal to authority fallacy.
Then supporting the police is also an appeal to authority fallacy.

>>12674231
>being so self centered that you can't imagine more than one person being of a different opinion

You still haven't answered the most fundamental question. How did it happen that you had to see a psychiatrist?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 12:55:18 2021 No.12674351 Schizophrenic most of the time just mean, he is different or not respecting opinion of his family, which people have right to.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 12:56:56 2021 No.12674354

>>12674340
Considering that I have spoken to people that literally envisioned another person in the room, that's hard to believe. And yes, that hallucination did tell the woman horrible stuff and sometimes tried to compulse her to do harm to herself.

But if you have a source, that would be great.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 13:14:14 2021 No.12674408

>>12674349
>Never claimed that
You couldn't refute my argument so you made an appeal to authority instead. Like why do you argue for psychiatry (or schizo as you've derailed it into) and when refuted say "that's not up to me, that's up to professionals!". Fucking retarded.

>Your "counterpoint" has been refuted over and over again.
How has: "I'm telling you right now that you need to be belt restrained for 48 hours and have electroshock therapy. You don't want that? (I'll guess that on your part) Then that must be because you are treatment adverse from a mental illness and because you have a mental illness then you need my treatment."
How has that been refuted over and over again?

>Again, how is any of what I wrote different to any other case of medical malpractice?
I literally just fucking told you. Fucking read.

>No, just answer my question. I'm not getting into word games of what constitutes danger.
No answer my fucking question so that you can make your question precise.

>Then supporting the police is also an appeal to authority fallacy.
Only if you're supporting police for the sole reason that they are police then yes. But that's stupid.

Like you're literally dumb and unable to see the nuances here. You're committing numerous fallacies and your inability to make a coherent relevant argument hinders any discussion from progressing.
Stop posting. You're derailing the thread.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 13:18:09 2021 No.12674422

>>12674349
>waving aside the fact you were referring to yourself in the plural

Do you imagine yourself to be more than one person or do you claim to be speaking for a group as a way of trying to garner unwarranted authority?

>You still haven't answered the most fundamental question.

I told you I've answered it numerous times. Since you're so keen on picking up who I am from past threads, test your abilities. But then, you seem to lack basic reading comprehension. Not surprising from a psychiatric apologist.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 13:21:36 2021 No.12674439

>>12674408
>Like why do you argue for psychiatry (or schizo as you've derailed it into) and when refuted say "that's not up to me, that's up to professionals!". Fucking retarded.

My guess from having engaged in these threads is that he is a psychiatrist being dishonest about his vocation. My reasoning here is the fact he is so invested in the topic, far more than any bystander would be. It's clear why some of us who have suffered abuse take the issue so personally, I cannot think of any reason why an apologist would be so emotionally invested aside from defending the reputation of his profession.

Secondly, you will note that in the earlier threads we had people announcing themselves as psychiatrists. Whether they were trolls or not, you will note that behavior has stopped. Proof these threads are having an impact. People are no longer willing to don the label here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 13:38:48 2021 No.12674510 >>12674417

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 13:40:40 2021 No.12674521

>>12674354
Maybe the coin have two sides, there are really people poisioned so much they hallucinate people who are not there.

Another types of this happening maybe reference to a smartphone in room, that always listens...

And the fact, there was somebody really ill, doesn't mean most people being "cured" are actually ill.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 13:43:11 2021 No.12674530 If appeal to police is authority fallacy, than even appeal to medical "professional" is. You literally have shat in your mouth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 13:47:01 2021 No.12674544 >>12674530 Unretard yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 14:03:47 2021 No.12674585 Most psychiatrists and psychologists suffer from Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 14:20:09 2021 No.12674649

>>12674439
I'm invested because I've met and talked to those suffering from mental health issues. I have also been on the receiving end of one such persons stalking who didn't believe that she needed help. And I'm not just saying that to win internet points, she heard (and interacted with) voices that weren't there.

I'm not a psychiatrist as should be evident from my amateurical usage of terminology.

Why am I making so many posts? Because you spread lies, conspiracies and quite possibly your own paranoia. If some other schizo reads this stuff, they might be driven away from seeking treatment. That can cause real harm.

>>12674408
I thought schizos were supposed to be smart. Again, difference between you, the retardes individual making a gratuitious claim and threat and a medical professional with support staff, within the limits of the law and his profession deciding on a legal procedure.

Ok, I'll answer your stupid question. A person that's a danger to others is one that has been aggressive in the past or forms a health hazard due to neglect of personal hygiene and cleanliness of their surroundings. So this could be the schizo stalker that is making violent threatsand the bum covered in shit rotting in the subway. The last case would also be an example of somebody a danger to themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 14:23:18 2021 No.12674661 would tooker on meds be the most successful mathematician of all time?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 14:40:35 2021 No.12674713 >>12674649 Have you ever considered fact, that if somebody kicks you out on the street, it's somehow harder than expected to take a shower? >>12674661 There would be no Tooker, if the meds was pushed like today before.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 14:46:07 2021 No.12674736

>>12674649
>Because you spread lies

I have not spread any lies. The hospitals I went to really did deny me my legal rights ( to see the petition within a timely manner, when I asked) and my public defender made it clear that they did this regularly.

It seems like you've had a bad experience with a schizophrenic who did need help. Stalking is a crime that she could be removed from society for that nobody in these threads has argued against.

Many of us have faced abuse at the hands of people who are comfortable abusing their authority and operate in a culture that sees patients as cattle to be milked for profit. Aside from the the psychiatrist(s) most of the hospital staff was nice. Despite the fact that I still don't believe my hospitalization was necessary, the art therapy was still quite helpful. I hadn't done artwork since adolescence and doing it as an adult was...incredibly rewarding.

That said, "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" is more relevant than ever. Several nurses did what they could to play power games. The fact the psychiatrist wrote a prescription for every single patient she saw and would use legal force to medicate someone, even going so far as to block the other staff's notes from being entered into the hearing (because it did not agree with her evaluation) shows what happens on a daily basis. Many people just need someone to give them solid life advice. A script actually interferes with that.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 14:52:56 2021 No.12674766

>>12674649
Make your own schizo thread, seriously. This is for psychiatry

>I thought schizos were supposed to be smart
Maybe they are smarter than you. I'm not a schizo but I have worked with some.

>Again, difference between you, the retardes individual making a gratuitious claim and threat and a medical professional with support staff, within the limits of the law and his profession deciding on a legal procedure.
You make no sense here.

>A person that's a danger to others is one that has been aggressive in the past
You just substituted danger with aggressive here. That doesn't qualify as an answer.

>health hazard due to neglect of personal hygiene and cleanliness of their surroundings
Sure for those people you figure out why and offer to help them with it in exchange for getting clean.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 14:58:51 2021 No.12674793

>>12674713
>Have you ever considered fact, that if somebody kicks you out on the street, it's somehow harder than expected to take a shower?
The rate of mental health issues amongst the homeless is pretty high. On one hand, living on the streets is not a healthy environment. On the other hand, if you suffer from mental issues that impede your daily life, you are quite likely to end up on the streets.
So...these people still need help and somebody has to provide it. Even against their will in severe cases. Just leaving them on the streets in their misery is no solution.

>>12674736
Ok, not you personally then, but definitely the guy that calls psychiatry an evil cult of abusers.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 15:02:46 2021 No.12674806 >>12653059 Yes, it's ethical. Now take your meds.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 15:04:14 2021 No.12674811 psychiatry is unethical

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 15:06:10 2021 No.12674814

>>12674766
>You just substituted danger with aggressive here. That doesn't qualify as an answer.
You know full well that a person making threaths is a danger and needs to either be made to stop or taken into custody. But whatever jackass, then assume the persin actually did somethkng luke assault or property damage in one of their episodes. What should be done with such a person?

>Sure for those people you figure out why and offer to help them with it in exchange for getting clean.
You'll be very hard pressed to bribe a schizo that deep into his issues to just be normal. Like any sane person wants to be dirt covered, but would shower for a tenner. Pills and treatment are necessary in such cases.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 15:15:18 2021 No.12674841

>>12674814
>You know full well that a person making threaths is a danger and needs to either be made to stop or taken into custody.
You tell them to stop and remind them of the consequences if they follow through.

>assume the persin actually did somethkng luke assault or property damage in one of their episodes. What should be done with such a person?
You persecute them for assault or property damage.

>You'll be very hard pressed to bribe a schizo that deep into his issues to just be normal.
It's not a bribe, it comes much later. Just ask and fix.

>Like any sane person wants to be dirt covered
I don't know, would hunter-gatherers be? If yes, it's sane.

>Pills and treatment are necessary in such cases.
You don't know that

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 15:27:53 2021 No.12674875

>>12674841
>You tell them to stop and remind them of the consequences if they follow through.
Threats are frequently neutralized before they become an actual issue. That's true i law enforcement, fire fighting and health care. Btw, if they were rational they'd already know the consequences of their actions.

>You persecute them for assault or property damage.
Great, now a crazy person with a lot of mental issues is in prison. An environemnt that's full of threats, potential abusers and sorely lacking in treatment.

>Just ask and fix.
Naive. Are you disputing that some mental health issues make a person unwilling to seek treatment or accept help solving their issues? In severe cases, their issues might be auditory or visual halluzinations. Hard to just deal with that without help.

>hunter gatherers
Were not dirty or without self care as otherwise they'd get infections and die.

So in summary, your solution is fuck all and prison time. Yeah, that would have made the issues the people I've made suffered from far worse.
Your suggestions only make sense if mental health issues don't exist and these people could just be normal if they wanted to.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 15:49:34 2021 No.12674931

>>12674875
>Btw, if they were rational they'd already know the consequences of their actions.
You can't just go about ascribing irrationality to people.

>Great, now a crazy person with a lot of mental issues is in prison.
You know usually you ask people why they do what they did and if it's a mental reason you be aware of that and see what you can do.

>Are you disputing that some mental health issues make a person unwilling to seek treatment or accept help solving their issues?
Yes I am because the risk of you "treating" someone for the wrong issue or no issue at all is far greater.
Look you can't help someone or know what they need help with if they don't want your help.

>In severe cases, their issues might be auditory or visual halluzinations.
Yeah, but you don't know if a bum covered in shit is schizo. You find out, could be a million other reasons why.

>Hard to just deal with that without help.
Schizos can seek help and would if they weren't mistreated so often by those deemed to have the monopoly to do so (p$ychiatry).

>Were not dirty or without self care as otherwise they'd get infections and die.
What is dirty then?

>So in summary, your solution is fuck all and prison time. Yeah, that would have made the issues the people I've made suffered from far worse.
>Your suggestions only make sense if mental health issues don't exist and these people could just be normal if they wanted to.
Fucking stop yourself from making such conclusions.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 15:55:29 2021 No.12674962

>>12674931
You're stupid mate, no other way to say it. We are specifically talking about those with mental health issues and all you csn come up with is that maybe they aren't irrational.
Look, we can help some people that don't want help, even if most of that help is convincing them to seek help. You thinking otherwise shows that you know very little about these issues.

>Yeah, but you don't know if a bum covered in shit is schizo. You find out, could be a million other reasons why.
Like some kind of meeting with some type of person that specializes in assessing and treating these issues? Yeah...

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 16:06:58 2021 No.12675000

>>12674962
No you're retarded and still haven't acknowledged or refuted the slippery slope of "help" by force "I think he has a mental illness and he doesn't want my help. His mental illness is worse than I thought!

Every refutation you either ignore or appeal to some fallacy.

Is it really worth helping some people who don't want help when you're damaging so many more by trying?

Look you've multiple times been found out as retarded.

>Like some kind of meeting with some type of person that specializes in assessing and treating these issues? Yeah...
You don't need to be a special person to talk to people.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 16:15:55 2021 No.12675036

>>12675000
Yeah, you refuse to believe in mental health issues, that's abundantly clear. If all it took was a normal talk, these people wouldn't be in so much shit.

Again, I have seen and talked to people suffering from auditory and visual hallucinations. Those hallucinations felt real to them. That's not solveable by having a simple chat.
I'm not even taking the psychiatrists at their word here. It's my ownxexperience, that you can corroborate via videl accounts of psychiatrists and people afflicted by these issues.
So my refusal to engage your points is you not believing a part of reality exists.

>damaging so much more by helping
Provide an actual source or you're just a paranoid asshole that needs to take his pills.

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 16:30:17 2021 No.12675079

>>12675036
>you refuse to believe in mental health issues
No I don't, I question your ability to diagnose and treat it. It's noble to help people but you're often doing more harm than good.

>If all it took was a normal talk, these people wouldn't be in so much shit.
You talk with them and then you go from there.

>Again, I have seen and talked to people suffering from auditory and visual hallucinations. Those hallucinations felt real to them.
Same, I know.

>That's not solveable by having a simple chat.
From that you figure out what causes, what makes it worse, what can make it better for them. You suggest options and you inform of the potential gains and the potential costs. You don't force pills down someone's throat and forget to mention the side effects.

>Provide an actual source or you're just a paranoid asshole that needs to take his pills.
You know you could just read some anti-psychiatry and get a science degree. Go read the faggot Foucault or since you're probably a reddit fag here is what comes up when you search for anti-psychiatry: https://www.reddit.com/r/Antipsychiatry/

Anonymous Sat Feb 6 17:42:30 2021 No.12675347

>>12675079
If a simple talk would be enough, these people wouldn't be suffering so much from their issues. Cry as much as you want, specialists are needed to treat these complicated issues. How do you figure a talk would help them when they hallucinate?

>You talk with them and then you go from there.
>From that you figure out what causes, what makes it worse, what can make it better for them. You suggest options and you inform of the potential gains and the potential costs.
Very naive, these people, especially during an episode are impaired in their ability to make rational decisions. Talking to them and informing them is well and good, but their decision making should not be relied upon.
If they don't want to be in a situation of forced hospitalisation, the only way for them is to be proactive about their issues, practice mental hygiene and keep their prescriptions fresh and seek professional help.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 6 17:43:31 2021 No.12675355 >>12675079 Also, do provide an actual source instead of linking to fucking reddit of all places.

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/sci/ - Science & Math