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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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12624694 No.12624694 [Reply] [Original]

>Want to learn math
>Everytime I try to learn math they try to load their made up words and notation and vocabulary instead of using common sense explanations
>Every math explanation is written in the most schizo garbage way to explain something
>brain tells me this shit is made up nonsense
>close the youtube tab/pdf software
>but muh formality

>> No.12624697

derive it all yourself and make up your own notation

>> No.12624699

>>12624697
can u explain a concept without using made up nonsense?

>> No.12624700

>>12624694
still butthurt about your last thread?

>> No.12624703

>>12624699
is language made up nonsense

>> No.12624706

>>12624694
thank the jews that made your textbooks
they designed the books to make it harder than necessary so the goys can't learn math

>> No.12624708

>>12624694
you understand new notation/vocabulary is used to clarify definition.
If I use the word animal instead of cat, monkey, etc... clearly it's not specific enough in certain cases and exchanging that information with someone else becomes really hard

>> No.12624711

>>12624703
to people that don't speak the language yes.

Imagine explaining spanish to people and just talking in made up spanish instead of explaining in english.

>> No.12624712

>>12624708
Nigger, do u go to a five year old and try to explain something using PHD language?

>> No.12624715

>>12624694
yes it's fake and gay. you passed the real test.

>> No.12624719

>>12624694
if you get the essential concept behind it you learn it, the name or the term could be anything but it dont matter

>> No.12624721

>>12624712
there's no such thing as PHD language, if you cant understand the definition of a new notation then clearly you simply lack the underlying understanding that's all

>> No.12624722

>>12624712
So you are a five year old?
Besides, coddling children is a bad idea. That is why college is retarded. k-12 fake life is the exact opposite of what people should learn in their formative years.
Some people are meant to be filtered. It is okay. To the bin with you.

>> No.12624726
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12624726

>>12624719
>>12624722
just explain the concept using normal language, not shit like instead of saying a cat, you say is an homolophortaunism of tautology of discrete riehman series of hypercontextuality of made up superhyperealschizophrenia.

And no, writing in the most cryptic obtuse way doesn't make you smarter, only make you a garbage writer.

>> No.12624729

>>12624722
at least im not black

>> No.12624735

>>12624726
well if you go ahead and use cat for every species of cat how do I know we're talking about the same specie. It might not be useful in daily life, but in biology it is

>> No.12624739

>>12624735
When you teach, you're trying to explain a concept to layman people, not experts.

If you can't explain it in a way that a child can understand, you don't really understand the concept.

Which is 100% the fault of math teachers, they can't teach.

>> No.12624744

>>12624694
once you get used to it and have some base knowledge to hold on to, it becomes a very efficient way to convey information very precisely. If you actually want to use this information though, trying to derive a Lie-Algebra from a given Lie-Group for example, you are fucked.

>> No.12624752

>>12624739
you can use your own notation as long as you understand concept, now nobody else but you would understand which is the whole point of having unified notation. But I think your problem is not about the notation but understanding the concept. Afaik the best you can do is try visualizing/understanding the concept from different angles I guess?

>> No.12624754

>>12624752
I'm complaining about math teachers, which are always fucking failures.

>> No.12624758

>>12624754
well math is one of the hardest topic to teach since most of the learning is taught by oneself and not the teacher. So instead of blaming teachers, blame yourself for not doing the exercises

>> No.12624759

>>12624711
I don't know if you know this but that's how you learn spanish, or any language for the first time.

>> No.12624760

>>12624694
You're the worst

>> No.12624762

>>12624721
Oh boy, the definitions are based on definitions which in turn are based on definitions. 8 hours later sitting in front of 5 billion wikipedia tabs, you just give up and accept the set given as divine intervention so you can actually try to understand what a fucking vector space is so you can start your next fucking exercise for the shit that’s due tomorrow. Trying to get started with math has to be one of the most obnoxious processes in higher education.

>> No.12624763

>>12624758
>>12624759
>>12624760
How are u gonna study something that is taught in the most boring and dry imaginable way possible?

It's like teachers compete to see which can filter the most students by making the topic so boring until most of their students fail.

>> No.12624767

>>12624762
>>12624763
wow u got filtered hard. stick to physics

>> No.12624768

>>12624767
>I'm ok with shit
>wow you're being filtered by shit

>> No.12624769

>>12624763
If you're teaching mathematics all you can do is outline the theorems and definitions a student has to learn on their own. Prove the theorems, go through some examples you like, answer questions. That's fine, because every student is different. That's what office hours and recitations are for, where you can help a student with more specific problems.

>> No.12624777

>>12624767
I’m not the same anon and I didn’t get filtered, I just pushed through the hours every day. You have to agree that a simple header like “a set is basically a collection of elements like the numbers on the real line” so you can go on with your life and actually focus on the stuff that’s relevant would be immensely helpful and does zero harm.

>> No.12624779
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12624779

>>12624769
No, try to make the topic interesting, dumb retard.

talk about the history of the topic, why it matters, examples of applications, funny jokes.
Explain the topic in a more global way, give examples of stuff they can later make it with it (explain how the basic shit of calculus like linear regressions are used in stats for machine learning).

Keep the students engaged.

Nigger.

>> No.12624780

>>12624694
You just need to start from the beginning

>> No.12624782

>>12624703
Language is lax, and it's intention is to communicate in the most efficient way possible, not the most precise way possible. If we attended to be the most precise everything would be autistic verbose shit and nobody would end up saying anything because there isn't time for it. There really is no reason to have all the autistic schizobabble in math.

>> No.12624783

Then would it not make more sense to simply tie the mathematical explanations to Google search term utilization? That way it remains inline with common language usage.

Just so we can form a rigorous idea of what common language actually is.

Thinking a bit further it makes a lot of sense because the internet is the only thing that acts as a normalization vector for the English language.

>Source: PhD from the academy of no pants

>> No.12624786

>>12624694
All words, notation, and vocabulary are made up, retard. You're just complaining that when you were a child you were smart enough to learn words that were new to you, but now your retardation has gotten worse and you can no longer learn new words.
Go see a doctor is this is the case bud

>> No.12624787

>>12624721
How the fuck can you avoid understanding what the guy said? It was clear as day and you follow up with bullshit. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>> No.12624791

>>12624780
there is no beginning. Every curriculum starts with rigorously formalizing high school math, which is like 30 layers away from the basic axioms.

>> No.12624792

have you heard of geometry

>> No.12624794

>>12624786
I'm a doctor and you're full of shit.

>> No.12624800

>>12624779
We're dealing with adults here, they want the material delivered in an efficient method. If you fill your lectures with history and fluff you'll not get to the important stuff by the end of the course. Just doing what I describe even, which I listed giving interesting examples by the way, leaves little time for the good topics at the end most people want to get to.

>> No.12624803
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12624803

>>12624800
>efficient method
>80% of the class fail

>> No.12624805

>>12624779
To the math schizo, some bullshit "ELEGANT" proof is more important than showing how it was discovered. You just have to accept that most shit was given by divine intervention. This field is fucking schizophrenia.

>> No.12624806

>>12624777
pretty sure this is why we have lectures and lecturers. So they can explain this shit.
The first time i learned set theory on my own, i didnt understand why they assumed the axiom of extension for ZFC. Then I kept learning and it eventually made sense.
I agree that it would be better if the textbooks were written in a way for beginners to understand. But generally they are written by mathematicians who have intelligent and hardworking students, so their expectations of a readers ability is somewhat skewed. Or they just expect the readers to put in some effort.
Anyway, I think this is how we got that schizo who claims sets aren't well-defined. Because he never actually understood sets that well.

>> No.12624811

>>12624803
Depends on where you are, are we talking top 10 university? Or Flint Community College?

>> No.12624814

>>12624779
>reddit spacing

>> No.12624816

>>12624794
>im a doctor
Nice LARP. Also, you didn't see that I was being hyperbolic so I doubt you're smart enough to be a doctor, kiddo.

>> No.12624817

>>12624800
>We're dealing with adults here, they want the material delivered in an efficient method.
The most efficient method is that which takes less time to understand, not less time to babble in front of an audience. When you come with your fucking shit ton of abstractions pulled out of your ass people can't understand shit even though you summarized whatever you tried to explain perfectly. People don't understand and thus you fail at both efficiency and efficacy. Worst part of it is people who force the arbitrary information into their heads will forget it within a month because they didn't understand shit, they just repeated what you told them so they could get over it.

>> No.12624818

>>12624811
>We should use outliers for the average student
>College is about filtering students instead of helping and teaching the most
This is why colleges are a scam, they only want your money, not teach you.

>> No.12624832

>>12624694
>Want to learn math
Let's begin with the number 1. Tell me what it is.

>> No.12624833

>>12624818
It's not the job of a professor to force feed or spoon feed their students.
What's the point of pumping out students who can only regurgitate what they were forcefed, but have no ability to self-study or work hard?
It's the job of the professors and the university to determine what knowledge is required for an undergraduate to know, or a master student to know, then to provide a path for that student to attain that knowledge.
This is why having a degree from a good university is so valuable. Because if you go to the private sector it indicates to employers that you aren't a retard who needs to be babysat.
I literally had contractors working on my house, and we had to sit there and babysit them to make sure they did their job properly. Fucking retarded trade niggers who want to do the bare minimum and get paid. We don't want to turn universities into trade nigger producing factories

>> No.12624836

>>12624694
Math was never meant to be user friendly. Adapt or get out, the notation's not changing.

>> No.12624837

>T. Im a brainlet and it's the teachers fault
After denial and grief comes acceptance. I like my McDouble with extra pickles OP.

>> No.12624838

>>12624832
>nobody knows what 1 is anymore thanks to all the made up schizo ramblings.

>> No.12624840

>>12624817
It's an abstract subject, there's a timeline, the definitions and proofs have to be presented. Like I said individual help can be given during office hours and the like.
>>12624818
Yeah it probably is a scam.
Teaching is hard, sorry, it's not my fault they have postdocs teaching when I just learned the subject myself a few years ago and have only taught a few classes. All the important old professors that have the genuine insight and a real feel for the material have better things to do.

>> No.12624841

>>12624833
>>12624837
Again, you're simply used to garbage teachers.

>I struggled, this means I want also others to struggle

Colleges should be a vocational thing, not a job.
Only people who love to teach should teach.

>> No.12624846

>>12624833
Lmao, the employers couldn't care less, all they want is someone to do what they don't have time for. You talk a lot about niggers but it seems you're the fucking nigger making excuses for a retarded system that fails to do what it pretends to say it does. You're paying for their fucking service, it's not employers who are paying them to kick you out. Gotta say it's pretty smart that they have managed to turn their incompetence into an industry.

>> No.12624849

>>12624840
Why don't they hire teachers then? Or rather, why do students tolerate that bullshit?

>> No.12624851

>>12624841
If you're telling me the two top-10 (globally) universities I attended had garbage teachers, then maybe I'm used to garbage teachers.
More likely you are just coping with your inability to keep up.
Also, I don't think you understand what the word "vocational" means.

>> No.12624855

>>12624841
no matter how hard you try to deny it, it doesn't make your point more valid.
You deal with the cards you get, you don't blame the croupier for getting bad card.
If you want to blame anyone, blame your parents for spoon feeding you into thinking you're a gifted and unique child that's righteous.

>> No.12624857

>>12624851
>>12624855
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/

I'm sure teaching company has better teachers than whatever comunity college you had.

God bless this company hiring the best teachers with multiple awards of teaching excelence nation wide to teach their courses.

Stay pleb and learning from subpar teachers.

>> No.12624858

>>12624846
absolutely incorrect. You must work a braindead job where it doesnt matter if you have a degree or not. Like I've written before on this board, there are retarded boomers working in cushy office jobs who have no drive to learn anything new, they have no work ethic, and their employers are seething because they need "cause" to fire these useless employees. For big companies they try to manufacture reasons to layoff the employees who are too slow to learn or adapt.
That you have never experienced this phenomenon tells me your work could be done by a trained monkey, or no intelligent person wants to do your job and so the employer is stuck with you

>> No.12624864

>>12624762
This just sounds like you tried to jump into something too advanced. Swallow your pride and figure out what the next step is based on what you do know.

>> No.12624865

>>12624849
Don't ask me, I don't make the system. When I was a student I had great professors, but classes were largely just to outline what you need to know still. Most the learning is done outside of class, working on problems late into the night with other students, etc. When you're really stuck and have spent a lot of time on a problem, going to the office hours is great because you can get a lot of insight into a specific issue.

>> No.12624869 [DELETED] 

>>12624855
I'm not blaming anyone, project harder copefag ;)

>> No.12624880

>>12624857
Like I said, two top-10 universities bud. But if you can get a better education from "thegreatcourses" then go for it. Why on earth would I be against improved education? I just don't think spoonfeeding brainlets is a good education

>> No.12624884
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12624884

>>12624880
I love how the free market wins again baby.

;)

One conservative analyst has described the courses offered by The Teaching Company as more mainstream than what is offered at traditional American liberal arts colleges, describing the course selection as being driven by market forces, with the firm's founder, Tom Rollins, asking customers which subjects they wanted to learn, and using market research techniques to figure out what courses to offer, and even what lectures to include, to satisfy an intensely loyal customer base. The indicated result was that the catalog has had less emphasis on issues such as sexism and racism and more of a focus on "everything the civilization has figured out so far and to discover new things". The analyst further noted that the survey format predominates, with few in-depth courses on specific thinkers or philosophical schools, and more emphasis on covering the fundamentals of a subject, as if it were an introductory college course.

>> No.12624888

>>12624884
I'm not an american.
Also this looks like advertising for your own website, so enjoy your ban :)

>> No.12624890

>>12624888
cope retard.

The free market > your comunity college.

>> No.12624893

>>12624890
>comunity college.
Imagine having reading comprehension this bad and calling other people retarded. You're not worth my time. Enjoy trying to troll other people after your ban expires :)

>> No.12624894

>>12624782
>there is no reason to be precise in math

>> No.12624896

>>12624893
cope triggered liberal college fellow.

;)

>> No.12624897
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12624897

>>12624706
>this level of brainlet cope

>> No.12624902

>>12624762
Math in higher education is highly dependant on stuff you understood earlier. Math is unforgiving when it comes to these things.

Also, what the fuck is hard about vector spaces? Learn some logic first, go into Set theory, get a solid basis there, then proceed to Number theory and then concern yourself with groups and the like.

Or take a course in Discrete Maths, highly recommended.

>> No.12624908

>>12624779
Stop being a fucking inbred zoomer and learn how to learn. Subhuman.

>> No.12624932

>>12624902
>learn some logic
>more arbitrary nigger notation using symbols that are already used for other things

>> No.12624941

>>12624694
kek

>> No.12624993

>>12624894
There's no reason to be pedantic with vocabulary when the point can get across with simple language while exercises teach the precision details.

>> No.12625023

>>12624694
I hope your memeing, otherwise this is both mildly sad and insanely hilarious.

>> No.12625043

https://www.khanacademy.org/
https://betterexplained.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTnEG_WGd2Q

>> No.12625308

>>12624833
>I literally had contractors working on my house, and we had to sit there and babysit them to make sure they did their job properly.
guaranteed you have no fucking clue what the contractors are doing or you’d have done it yourself and saved half the cost.

>> No.12625625

>>12624706
>i can't learn math because of the jews

>> No.12625635
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12625635

>>12624694
stop being a nigger and just ask one of the autistic math retardson this board that know the math in your textbook inside and out and have too much free time on their hands to explain it to you.

t. one of those autistic retards

>> No.12625653

any technical field in the planet has jargon and necessarily specific terminology
quit whining and learn it like everyone else

>> No.12625721

>>12624706
Impressive mental backflips

>> No.12625736

>>12624694
>>12624706
>>12624726
>>12624763
just don't study math if you're unwilling to put effort into it.
you don't even explain your issue in a clear way so we can help you, you think you write better? you're worse.
If you don't know words in a book, look it up.
read the preface of a math book and it will say what it's expecting you to know.
shitty thread, shitty bait. 0/10
here's a (You) fairy ass faggot.

>> No.12625767

>>12624864
that was my first semester experience and part of the curriculum. It is impossible to learn every item of notation that is used to define the matter you are studying while keeping up with the course items that are actually relevant and at the same time develop an intuition for it. That would simply require a day’s worth of time every hour, especially when you consider that those items are themselves defined via multiple obscure items. What you have to know to find out what one random ass definition is grows exponentially with every level you go deeper. And instead of giving a rough picture or example, almost all professors and textbooks either just assume you possess divine knowledge of what they are supposed to teach you, or expect you to take the definitions that define your current subject at face value without knowing what they imply. To make it even worse, the definitions for your definitions are not enough most of the time. No way you can intuitively conclude how a vector space operates just by knowing its definition. Knowing how a scalar product is defined doesn’t do shit for you to see its relevance for a vector space. Knowing the definition of a scalar doesn’t do shit for you in understanding what a scalar product entails. Oh, hey, I kinda know what “invariance” might mean.. oh wait, wtf is a transformation?

>> No.12625783

>>12625767
>baby's first algebra course
imagine exposing yourself as a brainlet.

>> No.12625852

>>12624694
Don’t worry brother, Elon’s brain implants will save you...

>> No.12625964

>>12625783
>acting smug while being unable to grasp the concept of a hypothetical example

>> No.12626153
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12626153

>>12625852