ReOpen

[Anonymous No.12620450]

I've seen COVID19 infection and death statistics, and also informed myself on how it works on a basic level since I dont know biology, i see that it has a super low death rate which is probably even lower since alot of infections arent reported, and the quasi totality of deaths are old people in the 60 to 90 age range, so why should people stay closed in their houses, close shops and dont do shit for all that time?
One reason given to me is to not overload hospitals, but it seems stupid to block everything just to avoid that.
The other is just stupid emotionality: "people are dying for that dont you care?".
The only reasonable one I have thinked of is that the virus mutates thanks to all the reproduction mass contagion affords it and becomes a nasty one.

But besides that I dont see why not roll the dice and just say fuck it let's open up and restart living, who dies dies.

[Anonymous No.12620456]

>>12620450
The point is to bankrupt and ruin you. Why would they ever allow you to work again?

[Anonymous No.12620459]

>>12620450
I would also add that people dont compare it to nothing so they just see "big number of people compared to what I'm used to" have died today on the news and freak out, but if they saw his many people died of other stuff like illness or incidents I dont think they would freak out over that, I hate how the news channels keep spamming fear

[Anonymous No.12620475]

>>12620450
the hospital thing doesnt seem like a big deal until you get rekt by a drunk driver and need surgery or something. but hey, who dies dies! plus medfags have to follow hippocratic oath or get canned.

[Anonymous No.12620496]

>>12620475
Yes but you cant eliminate the unpleasant, the alternatives all contain pain, but I think one is better than the other.

[Anonymous No.12620584]

>>12620459
This desu, the normal mode of earth is people dying from diseases. People die of preventable and treatable diseases every fucking day lmao

Somehow people dying of this one disease is a moral failure globally of every human being on the planet. This injustice is so great we all need to separate from one another and hide until it goes away.

Pretty sure God is trying to gaslight me at this point

[Anonymous No.12620638]

Hospitals are full and running out of supplies from COVID-19. If hospitals were full and running out of supplies from car wrecks it would be national news and everybody would be talking about stopping car driving until something could be done. If hospitals were full and running out of supplies from gang shootings the president would form a paramilitary task force to execute gang members without trial.
The lockdown makes sense.

[Anonymous No.12620645]

>feel like shit
>tell doc
>get tested for covid and flu
>both negative
I still feel like shit today and it's been going on since last Sunday. This is what my lungs sound like rn. Pretty sure my test was a false negative. My work doesn't give sick leave so if you're sick, you either blow all your PTO or don't get paid for two weeks. Shit sucks. https://voca.ro/1oomdq5NBU6Q

[Anonymous No.12620668]

>>12620638
Ok but what are the consequences of hospitals being full compared to the consequences of being closed in for more than a year?

[Anonymous No.12620669]

>>12620638
Made sense for the first month or two, after that when it became very apparent that you were more likely to go to the garage and hang yourself.

Lockdowns are a joke and literally do nothing because (at least here in Canada) nothing is enforceable everything is done off of the honor system. At a party last night in a covid ward? who cares just say you didn't and you didn't.

[Anonymous No.12620675]

>>12620450
>One reason given to me is to not overload hospitals, but it seems stupid to block everything just to avoid that.
Alright, tell that to the governments who force us to treat corona boomers
I'd gladly let them all die outside and continue business as usual

[Anonymous No.12620683]

>>12620645
Hate to say it but you do sound like shit.

[Anonymous No.12620709]

>>12620638
>The lockdown makes sense
Really now? See pic related. It's the total deaths per year. Pretty stable for past five years. Then in 2020 there's a spike in total deaths (see: excess deaths).
>28k excess deaths for this age range
Hmm that's quite significant. Now go to the CDC. How many deaths in that age range attributed to COVID-19?
>7k deaths from COVID-19
Whaaaaat? Only 25% of the excess deaths in 2020 were COVID-19? I have 2 questions for you mate.
>1. What are the other 75% of deaths in this age range
>2. How does lockdown help mitigate them?

[Anonymous No.12620712]

>>12620638
>>12620709
Forgot pic related.

[Anonymous No.12620714]

>>12620638
This

[Anonymous No.12620715]

>>12620645
pneumonia?

[Anonymous No.12620772]

Why you should give a fuck when a healthy young person gets the desease then there is still a change that it will leave brain damage of long damage. The answer that most governments give is that they want to keep hospitals working. Let's say that 50% of all people in a country will get the desease. So in the case of the Netherlands roughly 10 million. From those people 10% will require medical help. We know roughly 1% will just straight up die because they are old or whatever. So all all governments are just trying to keep that dying persentage as low as possible. They can do that by slowing down the virus so doctors can try to help more patients or they can give a vaccine to people but mrna based once are really new so people have questions about those once. And traditional vaccins are slow to develop and produce at mass. So they simply make the choice to sacrifice a part of the economy so that less people will die that's all.

[Anonymous No.12620805]

>>12620638
>Hospitals are full and running out of supplies from COVID-19
Source?

[Anonymous No.12620813]

>>12620715
Probably

[Anonymous No.12620820]

>>12620709
>>1. What are the other 75% of deaths in this age range
Not him but what are you implying here?

[Anonymous No.12620833]

>>12620820
Just asking a question, no implications. I don't know. People say a lot of shit about COVID-19, and can't answer this question. I just want to know what's killing people.

[Anonymous No.12620848]

>>12620450

It is an utter disaster that hospitals have reached full capacity, they literally need to choose between who lives and who dies.

Governors are forced to lockdown, otherwise when tons of people die of COVID-19 and there are no lockdowns, people will blame the governor for not doing shit. But when tons of people die/hospitals get loaded AND there are lockdowns, at least governors can say that they tried to help.

[Anonymous No.12620869]

>>12620848
>It is an utter disaster that hospitals have reached full capacity,
Source

[Anonymous No.12621118]

>>12620848
Can confirm. At this moment gun battles are breaking out between security forces and mobs of CV19 victims wanting urgent attention.

[Anonymous No.12621227]

>>12621118
Is this sarcasm?

[Anonymous No.12621264]

>>12621227
Yes

[Anonymous No.12621274]

>>12621227
Possibly

[Anonymous No.12621312]

>>12620833
Cdc releases deaths by “natural cause” and “all causes”. Natural cause being anything but murder, suicide, accidents. You should be able to see if those excess deaths are because of suicide or something.

Can you do that please cause I’m too dumb and lazy but also really want to know. Thanks love you

[Anonymous No.12621393]

>>12621312
>>12620709
Fine I'll do it myself. Fuck I wanted to find that suicides and murder were at an all time high - but there's nothing to see :( 250667 people died from unnatural causes in 2019, and about 254299 died from unnatural causes in 2020 (provisional data). Unnatural causes being suicide, murder, car crashes... that sort of thing.

2020 data - https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Counts-of-Deaths-by-State-and-Select-Causes/muzy-jte6/data
2019 data - https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Counts-of-Deaths-by-State-and-Select-Causes/3yf8-kanr/data

tldr; The excess deaths are not from suicides, murder, accidents (car crashes etc)

[Anonymous No.12621404]

>>12621393
That's all ages btw, not 25-44 cause I couldn't figure out how to do that.

[Anonymous No.12621407]

>>12620459
Nothing to see here folks, justdaflu

[Anonymous No.12621438]

>>12620709
>Now go to the CDC. How many deaths in that age range attributed to COVID-19?
>7k deaths from COVID-19
Source?

[Anonymous No.12621479]

>>12620638
>>12620848
>Hospitals are full

I keep hearing this, but sources are never posted.

Also, it's possible that many people are being sent or taking themselves to hospital unnecessarily when all they need to do is quarantine themselves, as their symptoms might not warrant hospital care. In addition, a lot of people are in much poorer health due to being stuck in lockdown and not being able to see their regular doctor. Not a huge factor, but one nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.12621560]

>>12620450
https://youtu.be/heTsU6_DC28

Roll the dice, I won't

[Anonymous No.12621631]

>>12621560
>eceleb has a retarded take
Wow, who could have thought?

[Anonymous No.12622252]

>>12620772
>Why you should give a fuck when a healthy young person gets the desease then there is still a change that it will leave brain damage of long damage.
This is exaggeration, the data is very scarce, doubt you can dig up a case of a healthy young person experiencing serious neurological symptoms due to covid

[Anonymous No.12622284]

If everyone in the world catches it (unlikely) about 2% of the world population or about 140 million people would die. That is a large number of people. If it mutates into a more severe strain or a strain different enough from the first one that it can reinfect previously infected people or infect vaccinated people then the number of dead will increase beyond 2%. The virus will likely mutate in such a manner and become endemic, becoming an infection on a yearly cycle. The virus is spreading exponentially despite all the lockdown measures. It's already out of control and the system is just trying to delay hospitals from turning into charnel houses and mass graves overflowing. You're sticking your head in the sand. This pandemic isn't on the level of the Spanish Flu or the Black Death but it's the worst we've seen in a century and we're in damage control mode. There is no way to beat this thing.

[Anonymous No.12622289]

>>12621479
Hospitals normally operate at near 100% capacity for the sake of efficientcy.

[Anonymous No.12622299]

>>12622289

[Anonymous No.12622305]

>>12621438
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

[Anonymous No.12622316]

>>12621393
I think the excess deaths are due to lockdowns. People aren't able to get preventative care, are dying at home from heart attacks that would otherwise have been treated, or other things like appendicitis.

[Anonymous No.12622415]

>>12622316
>People aren't able to get preventative care, are dying at home from heart attacks that would otherwise have been treated, or other things like appendicitis.
What does this have to do with lockdowns? Lockdowns don't prevent you from going to a hospital. Fear of COVID and hospital shortages do.

[Anonymous No.12622431]

At this point hospitals should be able to turnaround everyone in 48 hours with ivermectin, ambroxol+HCQ, and fluvoxamine. Cyproheptadine if shit gets really bad.

Do doctors just not know pharmaceuticals or are nurses lazy or what?

[Anonymous No.12622433]

>>12622415
>Implying fear of COVID-19 kills three times as many people as the virus itself?
>Implying lockdowns don't contribute to this fear?

[Anonymous No.12622453]

>>12620450
>One reason given to me is to not overload hospitals, but it seems stupid to block everything just to avoid that.

they could just build more hospitals. China built a new hospital in Wuhan in 2 weeks.

[Anonymous No.12622456]

>>12620450
>But besides that I dont see why not roll the dice and just say fuck it let's open up and restart living, who dies dies.

Or we could just lock down the boomers and the libtards. That would work too. They want a lock down, lets give them a lock down. Those that don't want a lock down will be given freedom. Its win win

[Anonymous No.12622462]

>>12620456
>>>12620450 (OP)
>The point is to bankrupt and ruin you. Why would they ever allow you to work again?

This guy gets it. The ruling class has always hated the masses. Now with automation, they think they don't need use. The lock down is an orderly way to cut down the population while they replace use with robotic factories and military drones.

[Anonymous No.12622466]

>>12620475
>medfags have to follow hippocratic oath or get canned.

They are all partying and making tik tok videos

[Anonymous No.12622471]

>>12620638

[Anonymous No.12622474]

>>12622284
No solid data about increased virulence of any new covid strain, "likely" isn't a measurement, considering the mrna vaccine works, updated vaccines are easy to manufacture, also an increase in virulence does not increase CFRs by itself, and the vulnerable population groups that tend to die from a pandemic won't just magically be replaced in the next year to die off again, endemic cycles also don't necessarily appear lightly. Painting doomsday scenarios without data is as negligent as continuing to pursue the lockdown strategy without data

[Anonymous No.12622503]

>>12620638
>Hospitals are full and running out of supplies from COVID-19.
Except they are not.

[Anonymous No.12622508]

>>12621407
Looks like nothing lockdown-worthy.

[Anonymous No.12622521]

A reminder that in Sweden 2020 mortality rate was better than several years from 2010's. If your country is doing the same or better, then covid is a confirmed seasonal cold. If you are doing much worse, say thanks to the lockdowns.

[Anonymous No.12622590]

>>12622433
>>Implying fear of COVID-19 kills three times as many people as the virus itself?
No, that's your hypothesis. It seems to me that recent COVID deaths are not yet reflected in the data, since 40% of excess deaths in that age group were from COVID during the first half of the pandemic

>>Implying lockdowns don't contribute to this fear?
Or they reduce fear by having less infected people walking around.

[Anonymous No.12622599]

>>12622590
>It seems to me that recent COVID deaths are not yet reflected in the data
They are. Check the CDC source.
>https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

[Anonymous No.12622601]

>>12620675

[Anonymous No.12622603]

>>12622508
>lockdowns are unnecessary because of the number of deaths after lockdown
Oh no... it's retarded.

[Anonymous No.12622604]

>>12622521
A reminder that you're an idiot. They reported 11k kung flu deaths and ended the year with about 8k excess deaths.

[Anonymous No.12622608]

>>12622599
How does showing the data refute deaths being unreported in the data???

[Anonymous No.12622627]

>>12622604
Swedish population in 2010 was 9.3 millions. Now it is 10.3 millions. So 2010 was several percents worse than scary plagueish 2020 (and so were several other years). Remind me, why didn't we have lockdowns in 2010?

[Anonymous No.12622639]

>>12622603
If I'll burn down your house, but will not kill you, then clearly burning down your house saved you from death. So every house should be burned down. Truly a /sci/entific way!

[Anonymous No.12622650]

>>12622608
>Total COVID-19 deaths2, as of 1/16/2021
>2Deaths with confirmed or presumed COVID-19, coded to ICD–10 code U07.1.

[Anonymous No.12622651]

>>12622627
Funny how you cherry pick the population of 2010 and not, say, 2019. Surely you're in no way being disingenuous.

Oh and 2010's deaths were in a let-it-rip, zero precaution year. That 2020, with everyone taking precautions and freaking out, still beat it in terms of deaths shows the exact problem.

Or do you think nobody in Sweden wore masks, socially distanced, or changed their behavior in any way?

[Anonymous No.12622659]

>>12622639
>If I'll burn down your house, but will not kill you, then clearly burning down your house saved you from death.
You're the only one using such backwards logic. You're saying the number of deaths is 0, therefore saving your life was unnecessary because the fire is harmless.

[Anonymous No.12622660]

>>12620709

[Anonymous No.12622668]

>>12620712

[Anonymous No.12622675]

>>12622650
>Number of conditions reported in this table are tabulated from deaths received and coded as of the date of analysis and do not represent all deaths that occurred in that period.
You're incorrectly assuming all reports = all deaths, which doesn't respond to deaths being underreported.

[Anonymous No.12622677]

>>12622668
Look, buddy, as much as you may want to kill 1 in 20 seniors, and as much as that would help our budget, we just don't have enough cemetary space.

[Anonymous No.12622679]

>>12620638
Public hospitals have been driven to shit by all governments. The pandemic would already be over if governments worldwide had injected massive ammount of money into public healthcare. Your excuse is invalid.

[Anonymous No.12622684]

>>12622651
Even if mortality would have exceeded worst year by a significant amount, it still would not be a reason to turn the world into North Korea. But as we see, it is better than several years from the previous decade. So it will be "cherry-picking" only if you call everything above the average "cherry-picking".
>Or do you think nobody in Sweden wore masks, socially distanced, or changed their behavior in any way?
Yes, they wore close to no masks (after all, masks are symbol of faith and symbol of obedience, they do nothing against covid, as heavily masked countries show). It's also their own choice if they want to stay home or go out. If countries with forced curfews and house exit bans did worse, then it shows the price of such measures.

But let's return to the initial question. Did USA/France/UK/Belgium do worse than the worst year from 2010

[Anonymous No.12622687]

>>12622660
>under 50
>justdaflu
See >>12621407

[Anonymous No.12622690]

>>12622684
... or did they do somewhere around average?

[Anonymous No.12622694]

>>12622677
It's you who are killing and abusing seniors (either together with other people, or even with special methods).

[Anonymous No.12622695]

>>12620805
In Brazil, hospitals are without oxygen.

[Anonymous No.12622701]

>>12622659
>You're the only one using such backwards logic.
No, it's you who does that in >>12622603 "We did something insanely oppressive, therefore you are not dead because we just did it".

[Anonymous No.12622707]

>>12622695
Is Brazil killing 80% of its ventilator patients too?

[Anonymous No.12622712]

>>12622679
Those governments would've had to infuse that money before the pandemic for at least 6 months but more likely 3 years or so so it could be spent properly on future pandemic preparation.
Also the US government especially under Trump would never do that. Spending money on healthcare instead of the military is nigh impossible without a strong tangible incentive.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33144734/

[Anonymous No.12622715]

>>12622684
>Even if mortality would have exceeded worst year by a significant amount, it still would not be a reason to turn the world into North Korea.

That's entirely debatable. But to get to that debate you need to weigh the actual lockdown limits imposed (hint: nowhere is actually "North Korea" other than maybe North Korea, though there is real economic and mental health damage inflicted) vs the actual lives saved (probably ~25k Swedes when all is said and done by this summer, mostly old people).

If you just emotionally spazz out one way or the other, your monkey brain will hide, twist, and elude facts. Perfectly natural but that doesn't get you the right answers.

[Anonymous No.12622716]

>>12622684
>Sweden reverses face mask guidelines for public transport
Oops

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-55371102

[Anonymous No.12622718]

>>12622707
>Old people above 65 should just die of covid. They are worthless to the economy
>I can't believe all those poor elderly people are dying on ventilators!
>Also I don't understand basic stats

[Anonymous No.12622719]

>>12622694
I'm pretty sure we're better off with Grandma learning to use Zoom for a year than her suffocating in the ICU for 10 days. But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Anonymous No.12622720]

>>12622701
>"We did something insanely oppressive, therefore you are not dead because we just did it".
You're the only one who made a claim, retard. Your own retarded analogy only applies to yourself.

[Anonymous No.12622721]

>>12622716
The fact that it resisted the maskers for almost a year is already insanely brave. It also managed to show that masks and lockdowns are useless, so even if they will be forced to go full North Korea, that knowledge will remain.

[Anonymous No.12622729]

>>12622721
Sweden doesn't recommend masks
>see this proves masks don't work
Sweden does recommend masks
>see this proves masks don't work

[Anonymous No.12622738]

>>12622715
>That's entirely debatable.
So it's debatable whether we should turn the world into the North Korea? Thanks for the honesty.
>probably ~25k Swedes when all is said and done by this summer, mostly old people
As USA/France/UK and others show, you can as well make it 250k - it will be a pure fantasy too.
>spazz
>monkey brain
>A reminder that you're an idiot.
Anon, it is you and your friends who are throwing "emotional" tantrum in almost every post.

[Anonymous No.12622745]

>>12622729
>Sweden doesn't recommend masks
>doesn't do any worse than mask fanatics
This proves that mask don't work. But if Sweden would have recommended masks since beginning, it would have said nothing about mask efficiency without the counterexamples. Are you unable to grasp even the basic logic?

[Anonymous No.12622746]

>>12622729
Also it's funny seeing these guys saying Sweden is the best country ever when pre pandemic they called it a leftist shithole

[Anonymous No.12622749]

>>12622720
You did that in >>12622603, my emotionally spazzing friend.

[Anonymous No.12622759]

>>12622746
Anon, are you talking with voices in your head? But even if, as you claim, Sweden would have been a leftist shithole, the fact that it proved that masks and lockdowns are useless would have redeemed it by a lot.

[Anonymous No.12622766]

>>12622738
>So it's debatable whether we should turn the world into the North Korea? Thanks for the honesty.
Yes, now you just need to realize "North Korea" here means 14 day quarantines for all people entering a country and welding everyone into their apartments until cases drop to 0. Only then could people leave for, say, food.

Seems like the only place on earth that actually did that is, hmm, Wuhan. Maybe also Pyongyang, who knows.

The current policy of "normies have a tough time going to bars" is not "North Korea".

>As USA/France/UK and others show, you can as well make it 250k - it will be a pure fantasy too.
Total herd immunity with zero masks or inhibition is around 80%. Sweden's 500k reported/tested cases, which we can generously extrapolate to about 2 million infections, resulted in ~11k deaths. 6 million more would then be an additional ~33k deaths. So 44k is probably the generous lower bound for the total deaths your plan would result in.

>Anon, it is you and your friends who are throwing "emotional" tantrum in almost every post.
I'm not being emotional, just pointing out where you're wrong. You need a complete accounting of reality before being able to make a good decision.

[Anonymous No.12622768]

>>12622719
Grandma learning Zoom is a person minding her own business. You forcing Grandma under the house arrest is you trying to oppress and/or kill her.

[Anonymous No.12622770]

>>12622738
>Normalfags can't party and get drunk
THIS IS NORTH KOREA

[Anonymous No.12622777]

Why people saying every west country is going "North Korea"? People are doing exactly the fuck they want even in lockdown, and that's why we're never gonna get out of this. Or do you think wearing a mask and not going out of your house after 10 pm is a "lockdown"?

[Anonymous No.12622785]

>>12620456
>>The point is to bankrupt and ruin you. Why would they ever allow you to work again?
Doesn't your government send out financial aid to stop this from happening?

[Anonymous No.12622788]

>>12622766
>The current policy of "normies have a tough time going to bars" is not "North Korea".
Anon, if you will try to rename the total destruction of human rights into something funny, it will not become any less appaling. And of course it didn't even work against covid.
>So 44k is probably the generous lower bound for the total deaths your plan would result in.
So... once again. Was 2020 the worst year in decade for USA/Britain/France/Belgium? If yes, then by how much? If no, then was it second worst, third worst or average?
>I'm not being emotional, just pointing out where you're wrong.
And you completely fail to do that, that's why you try to compensate with "spazzing" in every post.

[Anonymous No.12622790]

>>12622777
But anon I hate it when people outside look at me funny for not wearing a mask :(

[Anonymous No.12622793]

>>12622777
>and that's why we're never gonna get out of this.
We just need to use Vietnam/Taiwan/Burundi way - almost completely ignore testing. Then covid will just magically go away.

[Anonymous No.12622795]

>>12622768
Yes, it is oppression. The tradeoff here is that since Grandma needs to go to the pharmacy or do grocery shopping (or have someone Instacart shit to her) or have contact with home health aides, then the more prevalent the virus is in the general population, the less her actions matter and the more society around her is trying to kill her.

We either prevent Juan the home health aide from attending his sick niece's quinceanera and Jayce the Instacarter from going to Buffalo Wild Wings or roll the dice on Grandma getting a $100k medical bill.

[Anonymous No.12622797]

>>12622770
...yes? If I don't go for a walk and prefer to stay home, then it's my decision. If the government forces me to do that, that's house arrest. If you apply the same thing to the whole population, it's North Korea.

[Anonymous No.12622806]

>>12622718
Elderly aged 65 or over receives pension, then contributes to the economy. I speak of Philadelphia, I don't know about Brazil.

[Anonymous No.12622807]

>>12622795
If Grandma will completely limit her contacts and will get covid anyway, then covid is literally unstoppable and all the lockdowns are completely useless against it. By the way, are we talking about completely senile person? Why are you pretending that old people don't have any agency?

[Anonymous No.12622822]

>>12622788
>Anon, if you will try to rename the total destruction of human rights into something funny, it will not become any less appaling.
It's not the total destruction of human rights, you hysterical spazz. Using dramatic language weakens your case; it doesn't strengthen it.

>And of course it didn't even work against covid.
And there's another tell. You're losing the argument so you keep having to shift your points. If you can't even show you understand the scale of oppression from "zero measures" to "North Korea/total destruction of human rights", your conclusion on the tradeoff lacks any credibility.

It'd be like if I told you "the vaccines are all 110% effective and literally everyone reporting side effects is faking it". That'd be so ludicrous even the pro-vaccine side would discard my opinion.

[Anonymous No.12622823]

>>12622718
It's you who forces insane oppression on elderly people (either as a part of the whole, or sometimes with special elder-oriented measures). And yes, if your ventilators are killing so much, then it's pretty doubtful if they are useful (or even non-malicious).

[Anonymous No.12622843]

>>12622822
>It's not the total destruction of human rights, you hysterical spazz. Using dramatic language weakens your case
Just calling a spade a spade. You don't like it, so you pump every post with hysterics and ad hominems.
>And there's another tell. You're losing the argument so you keep having to shift your points.
No, my point is very simple. Literally every measure introduced against covid would have been a completely inadequate reaction to the seasonal cold EVEN if literally every country would have Belgium level of deaths. But I like to show that my opponent viewpoints are internally inconsistent. That's why I agree to move some goalposts and then show that you lose even with such a move.

[Anonymous No.12622844]

>>12622807
>will completely limit her contacts
The point is that oftentimes she cannot completely limit her contacts.

>then covid is literally unstoppable and all the lockdowns are completely useless against it.
Do you not understand partial effectiveness? Like, is that idea totally foreign? Do things in your mind either "work" or "don't work"?

[Anonymous No.12622862]

>>12622844
>The point is that oftentimes she cannot completely limit her contacts.
Then covid-defeating lockdowns are the complete pipe dream.
>Do you not understand partial effectiveness? Like, is that idea totally foreign? Do things in your mind either "work" or "don't work"?
No, "spread the few months of covid into many years, destroy economy and freedoms and actually get more deaths in total" is not "partial effectiveness". It's healing cavities by amputating your leg.

[Anonymous No.12622868]

>>12622695
Brazil is a corrupt shithole though, trust them to just sell of the oxygen and then beg for donations because they're running low

[Anonymous No.12622869]

>>12622862
OK, so then you don't understand partial effectiveness. Things like reducing R(t) or different levels of lockdown are going to go in one ear and out the other.

Not much else I can do here, I guess. Have a good one.

[Anonymous No.12622872]

>>12622823
You're super paranoid. I haven't enacted any legislation.
Are you a doomsday prepper?

[Anonymous No.12622884]

>>12622869
If your "partial effectiveness" doesn't even reduce death rate in practice, then it's complete ineffectiveness, whatever your theory is.

[Anonymous No.12622893]

>>12622872
Ah, sorry-sorry, didn't notice that you are not a government minister. Guess that you are just working for free then.

[Anonymous No.12622898]

>>12622893
Are you being paid to post?

[Anonymous No.12622920]

Bayes Lines Tool (BLT) - A SQL-script for analyzing diagnostic test results with an application to SARS-CoV-2-testing
https://zenodo.org/record/4459271#.YA2Gk-TGIlR
The data is in there is no “pandemic”.

[Anonymous No.12622926]

>>12622777
Depends on your country, a hard lockdown and shutting down everything that isn't a supermarket or a gas station is pretty draconian. A big issue for me is how nonchalant western govs implement these measures without having any reliable data about their effectiveness. Contact tracing has completely failed in most places, so has tracing chains of infection, it's insane that it's been close to a year since these measures have started and we still don't have reliable data, it's just headless policy making and partially overreacting because governments don't want to appear weak/negligent, when this is exactly what they've been. Imagine shutting down everything for months on end when you can't even trace the scenarios that result in the spread of the virus

[Anonymous No.12622940]

>>12622926
Don't know about your country, but here (Italy) it seems they basically tried to copy China measures without even knowing why and how to proceed from there. Stuff closes and reopen at random now. They literally don't have a fucking clue of what to do.

[Anonymous No.12622941]

>>12622920
I skimmed through the article. Nowhere does it say that. In fact it claims there may be a large amount of false negatives due to improper nasal swabbing.

[Anonymous No.12622945]

>>12622941
>Skims article
>Claims to know contents of whole article
Brainlet.

[Anonymous No.12622952]

>>12622945
Show me where it claims there is no pandemic.
I skimmed through it because most of it has to do with coding the calculator which I have no training on.

[Anonymous No.12622967]

>>12622745
>>doesn't do any worse than mask fanatics
LOL

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8

https://www.ft.com/content/81299a7a-ec53-41fa-bf33-7ea40f4bca07

[Anonymous No.12622973]

>>12622749
>You did that in >>12622603 (You) #,
No I didn't, I simply pointed out you using backwards logic. You must be retarded if you think refuting an argument is the same as arguing the opposite.

[Anonymous No.12622978]

>>12622940
similar here just north of you, everything has been closed since early December, there's a curfew in place and the government has spend 70 million on a contact tracing app that barely functions

[Anonymous No.12622979]

>>12622898
Lol he didn't reply to your q
He's def a chink

[Anonymous No.12622983]

>>12622745
Sweden did a lot worse than the rest of the nordic countries

[Anonymous No.12622990]

The death rate was always irrelevant when it came to Covid. I dunno why brainlets keep bringing up this point a year in.

[Anonymous No.12623008]

>>12622990

[Anonymous No.12623017]

>>12622898
No, I don't praise the chinese/north korean system which is natural for every free person.

[Anonymous No.12623019]

>>12623017
Chink

[Anonymous No.12623020]

>>12622973
>No I didn't, I simply pointed out you using backwards logic.
And I showed that it's your logic which is nonsensical example of post hoc.

[Anonymous No.12623024]

How did people get this stupid???

[Anonymous No.12623028]

>>12622990
Of course, people well-being was never relevant when it came to covid. I'm happy that at least some covidists are honest about that.

[Anonymous No.12623033]

>>12622983
Which wore masks far less often than most intense covidists and hardly mandated them too. Looks like masks are the culprit.

[Anonymous No.12623039]

>>12623020
>And I showed that it's your logic which is nonsensical example of post hoc.
Which logic? You can't even point out what you're talking about, retard. You're the only one who made an argument.

[Anonymous No.12623046]

>>12623039
This one, you dummy: >>12622603 The post with your photo, I guess.

[Anonymous No.12623050]

>>12623008
>>12623028
Death rate =/= Total deaths
The infection rate was always the real number that retards ignored.

[Anonymous No.12623057]

>>12623033
>Which wore masks far less often than most intense covidists
Source?

>Looks like masks are the culprit.
Culprit of what? Less infections, deaths, and hospitalizations?

[Anonymous No.12623066]

>>12623057
Masks cause covid

[Anonymous No.12623067]

>>12623046
Where is the post hoc logic in that post?

[Anonymous No.12623076]

>>12622990
Thanks for admitting this never was about health or making people survive.
>>12622941
I don’t think you can just look at some pages and understand something like this paper.
What they found out about false positives means the test is essentially useless. What “pandemic” is there where, when we don’t have massive excess mortality and a useful test to measure the alleged cause.

[Anonymous No.12623081]

>>12623050
>Death rate =/= Total deaths
And?

[Anonymous No.12623084]

>>12623066
Can't tell if trolling or continuation of retarded posts above.

[Anonymous No.12623085]

>>12622766
>welding everyone into their apartments until cases drop to 0. Only then could people leave for, say, food.
I don't think this happened in Wuhan.

[Anonymous No.12623087]

>>12623081
Look sweden went down bc of herd immunity
Not masks

[Anonymous No.12623092]

>>12623067
"Lockdowns happened and no huge mortality jump happened, therefore without lockdowns you will have huge increase in mortality" is a great example of post hoc.

[Anonymous No.12623103]

>>12623087
>Look sweden went down bc of herd immunity
You mean because there's no one else left to infect.

[Anonymous No.12623109]

>>12623092
And where do you see that in my post? Have you taken any hallucinogens recently?

[Anonymous No.12623117]

>>12623081
Sweden has smaller amount of deaths than Czechia or Belgium (countries of approximately the same size). Both are incidentally big on masks.

[Anonymous No.12623124]

>>12623109
Ah, so
>lockdowns are unnecessary because of the number of deaths after lockdown
was your unironical line of thought? Well, that's not exactly true too, so guess that your photo still fits.

[Anonymous No.12623160]

>>12623084
Why, he is partially correct. Imagine: you get covid and breathe most viruses out. Now imagine: you put on a mask and many viruses get stuck on mask (do they?) where you breathe them back. Your viral load will quickly exceed all the thresholds and you will get a huge sickness instead of a brief cold.

[Anonymous No.12623186]

I'd like to see the Swedish-measures-defending poster who said Sweden is doing so well try to refute this: >>12623008
Come on, go ahead. Or are you just gonna ignore it because you got btfo?

[Anonymous No.12623189]

>>12623117
>countries of approximately the same size
>Sweden Czechia or Belgium
holy shit

[Anonymous No.12623201]

>>12623189
>sweden 10.3 millions
>czechia 10.7 millions
>belgium 11.6 millions
I'm happy that I managed to surprise you.

[Anonymous No.12623213]

>>12623186
To refute what? Lines on a graph? Put on some complete thought.

[Anonymous No.12623220]

>>12623213
Refute this exactly:
>>12622967
>>12623057

I thought Sweden eas doing better than "mask-wearing fanatics", wasn't it?

[Anonymous No.12623231]

>>12623220
>I thought Sweden eas doing better than "mask-wearing fanatics", wasn't it?
Yes, and it is indeed doing better than UK/France/Belgium/Czechia/US(specifically mask-loving states like New York). Countries which don't wear masks that often and don't even have the mask mandate are certainly not fanatics, so they go against your viewpoint.

[Anonymous No.12623238]

>>12623081
Your point?

[Anonymous No.12623239]

>>12623231
>ignores Sweden's Nordic neighbours

[Anonymous No.12623242]

>>12623189
>Geographic area gets disease not population

[Anonymous No.12623247]

>>12623239
>ignores Sweden's Nordic neighbours
No, here:
>Countries which don't wear masks that often and don't even have the mask mandate are certainly not fanatics, so they go against your viewpoint.

[Anonymous No.12623252]

Go ahead and try to tackle this post, covid denialist scum: >>12621407

[Anonymous No.12623258]

>>12623247
Yet you provide no proof that people in those countries have worn masks less than people in Sweden have...

[Anonymous No.12623259]

>>12623252
Looks like somewhat bad seasonal cold with zero reasons to impose any anticovidist measures, my covid-truther friend.

[Anonymous No.12623262]

>>12623252
Masks cause covid and stop the flu.
Nobody can refute this.

[Anonymous No.12623275]

>>12623258
Here:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-country-masks-nordics-mouth.html
It's from July, so it covers all the graphs above you provided.

[Anonymous No.12623294]

>>12623275
>July
It's been several months since then.....

[Anonymous No.12623295]

We live in a gerontocratic plutocracy. The wealthiest and powerful people tend to be elderly boomers, who are most at risk of the virus. It's not about saving your grandma as much as it's about saving Bill Gates, Mitch McConnell, George Soros, the president of your university, the board of directors for your megacorporation, etc.

[Anonymous No.12623298]

>>12623259
Right, covid having in one year the death toll that the flu had in 10 years (even with the lockdowns) shows they are pretty much the same... retard

[Anonymous No.12623301]

>>12623294
Correct...

[Anonymous No.12623308]

>>12623298
So flu is even less than a nothinburger then.

[Anonymous No.12623315]

>>12623295
I want to save bill gates though
He's a cutie pie

[Anonymous No.12623316]

>>12623117
>Sweden has smaller amount of deaths than Czechia or Belgium
OK, and how else are they comparable?

[Anonymous No.12623323]

>>12623124
>>lockdowns are unnecessary because of the number of deaths after lockdown
>was your unironical line of thought?
Huh? Why do you keep trying to invent things I never said. Your logic was backwards, get over it.

[Anonymous No.12623359]

>>12623160
>Imagine: you get covid and breathe most viruses out.
No.

[Anonymous No.12623362]

>>12623323
Let me cite your full post:
>>lockdowns are unnecessary because of the number of deaths after lockdown
>Oh no... it's retarded.
Guess "retarded" was your self-definition then.

[Anonymous No.12623366]

>>12623316
They are actually different: Sweden is way softer on masks or other restrictions than Czechia or Belgium.

[Anonymous No.12623369]

>>12623301
Idk. Can't remember whether I was defending wearing masks or against it now.
Whatever you win.

[Anonymous No.12623379]

>>12623369
Peace!

[Anonymous No.12623397]

>>12620450

To bring in communism by the back door.

[Anonymous No.12623710]

>>12623238
That's what I asked you.

[Anonymous No.12623727]

>>12623362
I didn't say that, that's what you argued. Are you illiterate?

[Anonymous No.12624363]

>>12621560
does this guy know that in the USA certain groups have lower and higher fatality rates and framing it as a 97% for everyone is dishonest at best

[Anonymous No.12624555]

>>12620805
camon anón it's 2021 fuck you, sauce you ask? fuck you

[Anonymous No.12624573]

>>12623727
No, that's what you said. Otherwise you can probably cite a post which says that?

[Anonymous No.12624652]

>>12623366
Citation needed

[Anonymous No.12625013]

>>12623710
My point is pretty clear and provable if you've worked in a hospital during December, and not just looked at bunch of statistics like braindead /pol/tard.

[Anonymous No.12625030]

>>12624652
Not needed.

[Anonymous No.12625157]

>>12620475
This is all because we insist on 80yo's receiving heroic healthcare so they can eke out another year or two, of which half will be spent recovering from the invasive treatment they received. You get to pay for all of that while the job market becomes increasingly oppressive by the way.

[Anonymous No.12625785]

>>12622604
>That tiny bump in the graph

Oh no, cancel life as we know it!

[Anonymous No.12625877]

>>12625013
Sounds like appeal to special knowledge. Proof or you're just another plebbitor babbling on about things they wish were true.

[Anonymous No.12625902]

>>12620450
My fathers 64 and he can’t get the vaccine until he’s 65. Only the super old rich people get access to the drugs.

[Anonymous No.12625903]

The orange virus is gone. We can open everything back up now.

[Anonymous No.12626111]

>>12625877
mhmm, whatever you say

[Anonymous No.12626145]

>>12624573
Right here >>12622508

Retard, are you incapable of keeping track of a simple conversation?

[Anonymous No.12626150]

>>12625013
You must be confused, look at my posts again.

[Anonymous No.12626175]

Okay sciencebros, realistically when are we getting out of this? I keep seeing articles saying vaccines won't necessarily end the pandemic. Is this going to be what the rest of our lives looks like?

[Anonymous No.12626183]

>>12623076
>false positives
You mean asymptomatic people who were well on their way to recovering by the time the test came back.

[Anonymous No.12626374]

>>12626145
Yes, it indeed
>Looks like nothing lockdown-worthy.
But if I said what you claim, then you also said what is told in >>12623092 So it's you who loses the track of the discussion.

[Anonymous No.12626380]

>>12625903
Like clockwork (despite covid deaths in California being at their peak).

[Anonymous No.12626633]

>>12626175
Depends where you live. In the US there is going to be a huge move to declare victory over the virus and move on. Anyone who gets it after the big vaccine push will be ignored by the media and government programs like they were for other outbreaks. It will fall into the background.
Outside the US though there will still be lots of pressure to keep the game going. Each country has its own set of political considerations that will determine how much longer the "response" is kept going. Had the US re-elected Donald Trump, the lockdowns and restrictions would have been increased but he's gone now so it's time for it to all be attached to him and pushed away.

[Anonymous No.12627123]

>>12620450
GO BACK TO POL INCEL

[Anonymous No.12627761]

>>12622926
Draconian measures seem to be the most effective strategy right now. China and Australia both implemented tight restrictions and an isolation policy. I know Australia has the benefit of having no borders for people to walk into, but they got over their second wave months ago while North America is still getting fucked in the ass. China going hardcore meant it didn't even really see a second wave to begin with. Quebec implemented a curfew recently and have begun flattening their curve. The government is weak because those in charge are scared of not being reelected if they go full police state, and as a consequence the numbers remain high enough from people not giving a shit that they won't be able to reopen without the majority of people bitching about it being too soon.

[Anonymous No.12628000]

>>12627761
All the contact tracing and harsh lockdowns can work when you have a few cases you want to catch in the beginning. When you have a huge fraction of population with corona, trying to trace it is like trying to drink the ocean.

[Anonymous No.12628212]

>>12626175
Definitely not, I expect the pandemic in the states to end this year with the vaccines available and all.
>IB4U what about the variations
The vaccine was made in mind with combating other variations and mutations as well, it's not like influenza where it mutates all the time the point it's different enough, coivd is mostly the same virus, and let's just say even hypothetically if there is somehow a variation that's less effective to it, they can easily adjust the vaccine to combat it as well, influenza vaccine is upgraded each year but I don't think that'll be the case since it's not influenza. Overall we'll get out of this soon

[Anonymous No.12629234]

>>12622967

[Anonymous No.12629789]

>>12625157
80 year olds have money to pay for treatment with.

[Anonymous No.12629796]

>>12628000
Reliable contact tracing would allow to determine the scenarios that actually allow for transmission to occur. As you said, a harsh lockdown is a legit strategy if you have few cases and try to stifle further spread, once a significant part of the population is infected, a harsh lockdown would drag on forever, and the compliance of the population for any private measures plummets. Implementing specific measures and a partial lockdown while vaccinating seem to be the only reasonable long term strategy by now, but, at least in europe, the people in charge don't seem to be willing to jump the full lockdown ship any time soon.

>>12626175
>>12628212
The lockdown strategy is about numbers first and foremost, incidence and death-toll were usually stated as the golden calf, vaccinating the old first should bring down the death-toll and, and following up with the working population should bring down incidence overall, allowing for step by step reopening while declaring victory. A new and possibly more infectious mutant would at minimum drive up the incidence rates and prolong that process, if it circumvents the vaccine deaths will go up as well, even if we take into account that an mrna vaccine can be quickly adapted to a new strain, it still takes time to produce it and inoculate enough people. If the UK strain actually lives up to the currently unsubstantiated hype, this shitshow will continue into next year, save for the government straight up messing with numbers and just reopening. So if anything goes smoothly the states might be good close to Q4, if a vaccine for a new strain comes into play, you better add a few more months of production and inoculation into the equation, depending on how quickly they react to it.

[Anonymous No.12630831]

>>12620450
>why should people stay closed in their houses, close shops and dont do shit for all that time
Because there are chimps who can't stay closed in for a month so they cause the lockdowns to increase.

[Anonymous No.12631256]

>>12622719
>muh grandma!
>social isolation for children, rising child abuse, 250 million+ globally unemployed, rising mental health crises in all demographic groups, lack of screening and treatment for other preventable deaths such as cancer and chronic illnesses?
>you are le schizo!!! buddy, time for le meds meds meds! muh grandma = every objection you raised is a baddy baddy badbadnotgood wrongthink! trumpist schizo grandma hating bigot meds schizo cracka! meds meds meds!

sure, buddy, it's just your opinion, pal. meds. straitjacket. institution. lobotomy. now.

[Anonymous No.12631513]

>>12626380
cases going down, deaths lag cases

[Anonymous No.12631536]

>>12631513
and restrictions are working, so let's loosen restrictions