/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.12565219]

is transhumanism the future of our civilisation?

[Anonymous No.12565238]

>>12565219
Yes. FTL for matter will forever be a pipe dream. The only way to enable interstellar travel is to have digital citizens which can be sent as information packets from one system to another.

[Anonymous No.12565536]

>>12565219
Yes. Transhumanism has always been the destiny of the human race: the means and the will to overcome the limitations of nature.

[Anonymous No.12565590]

>>12565219
Obviously
We can't hope to achieve interstellar-scale projects with our short lifespans and dumb ape brains.

[Anonymous No.12565617]

yes, probably, but mostly through gene edditing, not integrating with tech. although there might be a bit of that too.

[Anonymous No.12565869]

>>12565219
Yes.

[Anonymous No.12565883]

>>12565219
Unfortunately, yes.

[Anonymous No.12566041]

Allow me to say it again:
No
Never gonna happen
The Brain calculates at 10^24 per second constructed via biochemical molecules at the precision of picometers (10^-12). Some species have been known to calculate even quantum spin of the electrons (10^-15 femtometer) just to figure out north without relying on the magnetic fields

Computers are bound to plateau at 10^18 because it is constructed using transistors that would peak at 1nm (10^-9). Once it reaches that level, it cannot go any further because its entire construction relies on electricity that heats up circuitries because of resistance. Any lower than 1nm and it becomes too fragile

The future of mankind would not be about computers. No, instead it would be about trying to imitate the brain and trying to create artificial neurons that can be used in computers that resemble a brain in a jar.

The future is not metal.
The future is flesh

Transhumanism is a fucking joke.
You can do so much more by using exoskeleton suits without any need to cut you up.

[Anonymous No.12566428]

>>12566041
Transhumanism does not exclude the use of genetic and biological engineering. Dominating our biology and being able to create artificial neurons and to regenerate our cells to extend our lives will be a long process that may take a couple centuries. In the mean time, we can use computers and cybernetics as a stopgap.

[Anonymous No.12566510]

>>12566428
No. The best cybernetics would still be inferior to the basic organic limbs

[Anonymous No.12566547]

>>12566510
desu society would improve if some people replaced their heads with a cybernetic interface to empty air.

[Anonymous No.12566554]

>>12566510
dumbass. an arm is nothing special. the io of the brain is well within the capabilities of a laptop. about half of that goes to the eyes.

[Anonymous No.12566556]

>>12566041
ur mum love to choke on me flesh LOL

[Anonymous No.12566590]

>>12566041
the radius of the smallest atom, hydrogen is 56 pm. neurons are on the micron scale. judging by what we're able to get artificial networks to do (replicate visual cortex functions for example) it seems like all that bullshit ass chemistry either doesn't matter or is highly compressible. also the timescales are super big. you are beyond cucked.

[Anonymous No.12566620]

>>12565238
You'd still need to get to the other side first and build there. Presumably, some humans would volunteer for the one-way trip.

[Anonymous No.12566622]

>>12566554
>>12566590
The speed of any machinery is directly dependent on the amount of transistors it has
The size of a modern transistor is 20nm and would reach its physical limit at 1nm

It's absolutely laughable compared to the neurons that handle chemical reactions at the precisions of the fentometers (1000x)

And that's just for the size
Not including energy efficiency, heat generation, and self-repairing capabilities.

Sorry, but machines are just plain inferior compared to biological bodies

[Anonymous No.12566633]

>>12566622
That still would leave genetic editing. That falls under the general idea of transhumanism (not that I like the term).

[Anonymous No.12566656]

>>12566622
you are getting those numbers straight from your rectum. name an example of a !chemical! reaction that cares about it's reagents at a femtometer resolution. as i said atomic hydrogen is 100pm in diameter. that's 5 orders of magnitude from your fm. stop believing voodoo

[Anonymous No.12566663]

>>12566656
Even better
Here's a bird that uses quantum entanglement just for the sake of knowing which is north

A literal quantum computing done by a bird the size of your palm. And 99.9% of its brain is used for keeping the body alive

[Anonymous No.12566669]

>>12566620
You can send automated probes if all you need is a receiver.
Also, gleisners can just shut down for the voyage.

[Anonymous No.12566671]

>>12565219
There is no future for our civilization. We are destined to die out likely in a mass extinction event only for life to once again diversify and take over the earth. Our goal in the meantime should be to spread single celled life to as many places in the universe as possible to ensure the continued existence of life.

[Anonymous No.12566678]

>>12565219
Depends by what you mean with our civilization because posthumans will have quite the different civilisations.

[Anonymous No.12566685]

>>12566669
Sure, but it's not like you are banning humans from leaving Earth or banning humans from breeding or life extension, right? There would still be humans alive, even if outnumbered by sims, simply because they won't all kill themselves after brainscanning.

[Anonymous No.12566703]

>>12566663
so i looked this up. the magnetic field is picked up by a protein. whatever wizardry makes it tick, the result is it detects magnetic field direction at a protein scale. you know that proteins are made of many atoms don't you? i think you're missing the point. ask yourself how an engine works. the fuel combusts and the kinetic energy is picked up by the pistons. how does the fuel combust? well it's cause of the interaction of atoms. why do they interact the way they do? cause of qm. still to describe an engine at the level that matters to us and simulate it, it's a trivial amount of data to a computer.

[Anonymous No.12566726]

>>12566703
A literal quantum computer just 3cm in size and uses a teaspoon of sugar for energy
VS
An engine

>hurr computers are better than the brain
kek
It takes 1Million modern supercomputers just to beat a single brain and we have yet to make brains with parallel computing

[Anonymous No.12566759]

>>12566726
you misunderstand the point i'm trying to make with the engine analogy. i acknowledge a protein is super small, energy efficient and i think bioligy is beautiful and worth researching. the point of the analogy is one of compressibility of things like "what does this b field sensitive protein achieve?" or "what are the results of these two neurons interacting?"

[Anonymous No.12566766]

>>12566759
Sure
But make no mistake.
Biology is so many times better than machinery in all aspects.

Blood beats metal.

[Anonymous No.12566840]

>>12566766
Except in vaccum or math.

[Anonymous No.12566850]

>>12566041
Modern computers are not even near the Landauer limit. I do think that biological minds, or more likely genetically augmented brains with cybernetic implants, will have a say in this world for the next two or three centuries but in the long term its gonna be digital minds as they require less maintenance, no rest and operate faster in any environment. In the end we will probably moravec our brains into fully cybernetic ones or attempt to shift our thinking into computers.

[Anonymous No.12566879]

Yes, going full digital is the only way to be immortal.

[Anonymous No.12566882]

Can someone pitch that transhumanism thing to me?
I love the Blade Runner aestetics, but you guys are well aware that you won't see any benefits of those idea within your lifetime, right?

[Anonymous No.12566907]

>>12566879
No such thing. Every instant there is a non-zero chance of death. Over infinity the probability of death approaches one.

[Anonymous No.12566915]

>>12566907
That non-zero chance isn't some inherent constant. The whole point of immortality is to get rid of that chance.

[Anonymous No.12566925]

>>12566622
You are forgetting the fact that machinery can be connected to the human brain, thus nullifying your transistor argument. Also, as technology improves, cybernetic limbs will absolutely be superior to biological limbs, since machinery has evolved far faster than biology. A cybernetic arm will not get tired, will have absolute precision, superior flexibility and superior speed, just look at assembly robots, they are better than humans when it comes to precision and dexterity at specific tasks.

[Anonymous No.12566938]

>>12566879
It's the one method to survive the stats and cling on black holes but beings that knew a beginning can't experience true immortality. Even if we got reversible computing going, escape into a basement universe or learn to shape space-time to our designs we will never truly be able to conquer the infinite. Still, we should try it.

[Anonymous No.12566948]

>>12566915
Any number of extremelly rare catastrophic events for which having contigency plans would be ridiculous is bound to happen over infinite time. This includes such unlikely scenarios as your atoms randomly flying apart; the larger the opportunity window for that to happen the less unlikely the event and that goes for every event that can possibly occur even the most unlikely ones.

[Anonymous No.12566953]

>>12566882
>someone pitch that transhumanism thing to me?
Transhumanism is the idea that the individual and society can grow its potential via technology. That it is the right of any person is to develop to its greatest possibility. Mental augmentations could make us smarter, physical enhancements would allow us to live far longer and stay fit in entire duration. We it should be possible to extend our senses and adapt our bodies to new environments. In short, transhumanism means to enable the mind and body new possibilities.
>that you won't see any benefits of those idea within your lifetime, right?
Depends, designer babies have already been born, a heart was printed out of a bio printer, cybernerics and nano medicine are making vast steps. We shouldn't expect GITS in 2045 but better medicine will exist in 45.

[Anonymous No.12566956]

>>12565219
It's already here, but yes it will continue. There is no return to monke

[Anonymous No.12566986]

>>12566956
>There is no return to monke
Depends, space people might decide that hands for feets and tails might be better for space living. Without gravity, this might be better adaptation than our current stage.
And some weird exhuman groups might decide that sapience was an error and turn into blindsighted hideauze.

[Anonymous No.12566992]

[Anonymous No.12567023]

>>12566986
It's a good point to make.

Technology will serve many more lifeprojects than delaying death as long as possible while living in a fantasy world. Unless some very narrow agenda like paperclip maximizing becomes utterly dominant, you'd expect the capacity to support many more individual minds to come with a great multiplication of perspectives.

[Anonymous No.12567294]

>>12566850
Nope.
Computers are going to plateau soon.
Unless a break through happened that allows computers to compute without relying on electricity that generates heat, it ain't going to break what biology can do

>>12566925
Oh, and you are forgetting the fact that instead of adding a machine on a human brain, you can instead just add new neurons on the brain.

[Anonymous No.12567500]

Most likely.

[Anonymous No.12567522]

>>12565219
our civilization has no future.

[Anonymous No.12567596]

>>12565219
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/short-history-of-3rd-millennium/

[Anonymous No.12567687]

>>12565219
Maybe; but luckily I'll be long dead before whatever horrific depraved might be lurking in the future occurs, and so will everyone else here. Transhumanism is a form of religion for sad atheist nerds.

[Anonymous No.12567692]

>>12566850
>t. meaningless and inconsequential ramblings about science fiction

[Anonymous No.12567699]

>>12566953
>Transhumanism is the idea that the individual and society can grow its potential via technology.
In reality, it's the idea that everyone should be microchipped slaves or soulless hedonists.

[Anonymous No.12567900]

>>12565219
>>12565238
perfect fpbp. everything else aside, space is too BIG.
>FTL for matter will forever be a pipe dream.
Forever is a long time, and FTL in general is all speculative. >>12566882 But even if there WERE matter-FTL, mind-uploading is still desirable for plenty of other reasons. Even if there were biological immortality, as well. If we were literally Star Trek with biological immortality, it'd STILL be solving problems and increasing opportunities.

>>12565617
It's a false dichotomy. biology is death-made nanotech. We might come up with wholly different BETTER nanotech, eventually, but our nanotech seems to be already starting as modification of existing biology, and will probably grow from there for a damn long time. Also applies to this >>12566041 type of bullshit argument.

>>12566879
'Digital' has nothing to do with it. Substrate-independence does. And there is no such as immortality, in this universe (this plane this dream this simulation whatever), which itself is not immortal. >>12566938 There might be a way out of this universe, or there may not be. Getting substrate-independent will give us more time to find out.

>>12567699
And your alternative proposal? Humanity just stops progressing altogether? Or ONLY progresses collectively? It literally cannot be done. You could only deal the species some unfathomable injury, in the attempt.

[Anonymous No.12567930]

>>12567900
>comparing biology to nanotech

Sorry, but until your machines managed to manipulate quantum phenomenon at extrene efficiencies, it won't be anywhere close

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_biology
There exists no technology that could allow mechanical computers to get even close to that.

[Anonymous No.12567938]

>>12567930
Based. Nice job BTFO these pseuds.
Are you a biologist? What do you research?

[Anonymous No.12567940]

>>12567938
Physics

[Anonymous No.12567945]

>>12567940
What field of physics?

[Anonymous No.12567951]

>>12567900
>And your alternative proposal?

Stay the way we are or discard techno-bullshit and return to monke.

>Humanity just stops progressing altogether?
Fuck the "progress" meme. There is no such thing.

> You could only deal the species some unfathomable injury, in the attempt.
I prefer extinction to "transhumanism", so okay.

[Anonymous No.12567959]

>>12567945
Particle physics

[Anonymous No.12567968]

>>12567900
>but our nanotech seems to be already starting as modification of existing biology,
How advanced are our nanomachines? And how advanced will they be in 20-30 years? I heard that we got micromachines that move 200 times faster than any cell, others were able to deliver stem cells/medicines to targeted tissue or make local changes. The issue of present nanomachines is that you need external equipment to move/direct them.

[Anonymous No.12567974]

>>12567951

[Anonymous No.12567981]

>>12567930
>There exists no technology that could allow mechanical computers to get even close to that.
Then we'd use that, instead of the mechanical computers. That's the point I was making. I know you're just 'trolling', but why? This isn't a debate and you wouldn't be convincing anyone if it was.

[Anonymous No.12567993]

>>12567981
Use what?
Biological computers/brain in a vat?

Sure. Whatever.
So long as you admit that blood beats metal

[Anonymous No.12567994]

>>12567930
>, but until your machines managed to manipulate quantum phenomenon at extrene efficiencies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_machine
I do fear that we are misunderstanding these qunatum effects as those mean less than one might think. Even normal computers/electrical components experience/affect quantum states as quantum is just the field below atoms. I doubt that biology and especially the human brain is the plusultra of computation especially compared to plasma states/localized conformation changes.

[Anonymous No.12567995]

>>12567974
Hunter-gatherers automatically BTFO transhumans because they actually exist.

>inb4 retarded European with an antenna in his head

[Anonymous No.12567999]

>>12567981
>Then we'd use that, instead of the mechanical computers. That's the point I was making.
Zerg Overmind lookin' ass

[Anonymous No.12568013]

>>12567951
>I'd rather die!
Nah, you wouldn't.
>Fuck the "progress" meme. There is no such thing.
Want banana, banana in tree. Climb up tree. Progress. Get banana. Want fuck, mate on ground. Climb down tree. Progress. Fuck.
Child climb tree good. Progress.

[Anonymous No.12568020]

>>12567994
No we are not
How the fuck you think photosynthesis, vision, digestion and respiration works?

Literal photons and electrons are being used by an organism that may not even have a cooling system or a centralized control system

That's the level that machines have to beat just to stand a chance.
This ain't a fair comparisson

[Anonymous No.12568053]

>>12567993
>Use what? Biological computers/brain in a vat?
Or whatever bits of them we needed. As long as we needed them
>So long as you admit that blood beats metal
Our blood is literally iron, and you still don't get it.

[Anonymous No.12568128]

>>12568013
>Nah, you wouldn't.
Nah, I would. Death is definitely preferable to becoming inhuman, though I'd argue that they're not even very dissimilar.

>Create polluted urban shithole. Progress. Get microchip in brain so Jeff Bezos can beam ads into dreams. Progress. Become slave. Progress.

[Anonymous No.12568132]

>>12568053
>Our blood is literally iron, and you still don't get it.
Computers suck shit compared to brains in terms of efficiency. Inarguable fact.

[Anonymous No.12568201]

>>12568132
>>12568128
you forgot the anime girl

[Anonymous No.12568209]

>>12568201
Different person

[Anonymous No.12568265]

>>12568128
Again, Transhumanism goes far beyond BCIs and anyone that uses a BCI in a open system deserves possible fuckery. Biomodded implants, nanosymbionts and other augmentations are closed system independent of any outside system.

[Anonymous No.12569281]

[Anonymous No.12569614]

>>12567294
More neurons does not equal higher intelligence. During embryological development, the human brain purges half of your neurons because they are deemed unnecessary (neuronal apoptosis). People who are born without this purging process grow to be mentally retarded. Besides, it will take decades if not centuries to figure out how to add neurons that improve cognition. It would be retarded not to use cybernetics and AI in the meantime.

[Anonymous No.12569619]

The future is here. transgenderism is part of transhumanism, my friend

[Anonymous No.12569657]

>>12569619
I never understand why /sci/ is vehemently anti trans while jerking off to transhumanism at the same time.

[Anonymous No.12569667]

>>12569657
Transgenderism is about being the little girl. Transhumanism is about benching a truck. They're fundamentally opposed to each other.

[Anonymous No.12569668]

>>12569667
Transhumanism is about being whatever you want to be.

[Anonymous No.12569674]

>>12569667
And FtM transition isn't about being the little girl anyway.

[Anonymous No.12569682]

>>12569668
And I want to *be* in a universe without trans persons

[Anonymous No.12569700]

>>12569619
transgenderism is dark-transhumanism/anti-transhumanism. (eu)social 'transhumanist' destruction and reduction of human capability, to serve the unconscious inhuman collective. the specific 'transhuman' changes they make to themselves are really just same-old cult castration-for-total-commitment, plus domestication=neoteny=feminization adaptation for total social submission.

it's not a coincidence they're all communists. the 'transgender' vision is ultimately of the same completely inhuman successor species, as the fascist/communist totalitarianism. the super-ant, 'vampires'/'blood cell with waldoes', post-sapience rampant optimizer cosmic horror of >>12567900.

[Anonymous No.12569742]

>>12569657
Present transgender are just mentally ill people that mutilate their own body, to actually change your sex you would need to undergo a massive proteus retroviral treatment that changes your chromosomes and modify your anatomy. But instead people use semantics to gloss over biological reality. That is the issue.

[Anonymous No.12569796]

>>12569742
it's even worse than that, because what they really want is to change their history. they want to be recognized not just as having become female/'girl', but as always having been so.

[Anonymous No.12569799]

>>12569742
>>12569796
https://male-to-female.org/en/philosophy
>Transsexualism is a form of self-improvement. We are biologically male, or at least, we begin that way. We are attracted to women, but love women and femininity beyond simple sexual attraction. We modify our bodies using modern pharmacology (and sometimes surgery) to adopt the desirable traits of women, in specific, secondary sexual characteristics, while preserving those traits of men that are worth preserving. The sheer intelligence of men, the tact of a woman; the tall and slender body of a man, the graceful features of a woman; the courage of a man, the peacefulness of a woman; the stoicism of a man, the social skill of a woman. Obsolete no more, by means of transsexual transitioning, the now estrogenized male has upgraded herself to the best of both sexes and thus overcomes the weaknesses of both male and female.

[Anonymous No.12569832]

>>12569614
I can say the same thing
The body's immune system would attack any bodily invader be it a pathogen or a piece of metal. As such, implants are going to be a danger in the long run due to natural wear and tear.

Also, being "harder to create" is not an argument. Biological is superior to mechanical. Is all

[Anonymous No.12569842]

>>12569799
Nigger.
You are linking a site that profits off them. Of course they would say nothing but positive things

[Anonymous No.12569858]

>>12569842
It doesn't profit off of them. It gives them tips on how to perform self-orchiectomy so they don't need to go through doctors:
https://male-to-female.org/en/self-orchiectomy

[Anonymous No.12569865]

>>12569858
I am NOT going to click that shit.
Yuck

[Anonymous No.12569870]

>>12569667
Transhumanism is about the freedom of the mind, the individual and that intelligence/consciousness is the merit to value existence. That we are all beings of reason capable of everything, to grow and to better ourselves. Transgender holds regressive and essentialists perception of personhood>>12569799.

[Anonymous No.12569925]

>>12569799
>the now estrogenized male has upgraded herself to the best of both sexes and thus overcomes the weaknesses of both male and female
and in reality, they're raving mad totalitarian cannon-fodder, whose entire contribution to the world is cheering on their corporate masters sovereignty-grab
>the graceful features of a woman
meaningless aesthetics
>the tact of a woman
>the peacefulness of a woman
>the social skill of a woman
rose-tinted euphemisms for SUBMISSION

>The sheer intelligence of men, the tall and slender body of a man, the courage of a man, the stoicism of a man
>intellect, stoicism, courage, pragmatic form
vs
>SAFE and pleasant for your owners to look at.
decorative people. but of course most won't even be that, all of this shit is ultimately a stepping stone to 'genderqueer'/'agender'/'asexual' shit. they're selling zero/nullification as 'ONE'/totality, that they can be sex gods experiencing the whole spectrum, but then the actual means they're offering are only REDUCING them

castrating yourself will never be good. period. it is ALWAYS cult bullshit.

[Anonymous No.12570251]

>>12566041
why does the truth make trannies seethe so hard here lol

[Anonymous No.12570697]

>>12569832
Full biological manipulation may be superior, but we are still much closer to cybernetics. Humanity didn't skip balloons just because airplanes are superior. We built the balloons because they were attainable, and then we moved on. That's what I expect to happen to cybernetics, which will thrive for a while and will eventually be replaced with generic engineering once we reach a sufficient understanding of biology (which won't be anytime soon).

[Anonymous No.12570717]

>>12566041
>Computers are bound to plateau at 10^18
Quantum computers calculate at 2^n. You can yell "MEME" all you want, but despite their limitations, they're going to be able to do some things incredibly well/fast. the quantum computer I use at IBM has 55 quibits and out-performs human brain calculation capacity. QM will be more of a module to add to classical computers, not a separate entity themselves (for obvious reason, no clone theorem, etc), but will essentially act as super-calculators for a lot of applications and certainly can out-perform the human brain.

[Anonymous No.12570777]

>>12565219
No.
Now stop being fat.

[Anonymous No.12570896]

>>12565219
Yes, inevitably so, even without space travel. We're pretty much already there imo.
Tell me how you feel when you're away from your smartphone for several hours.

[Anonymous No.12570942]

>>12570717
If QM are better at calculations, what is superior about classical computers?
Aren't the most resource intensive things in computing (rendering, videogames, simulations) calculations?

[Anonymous No.12571022]

>>12570697
By all means, I reserve the rights to call it a MEME
There are no sufficient evidence that quantum computers could even be better and faster than classical computers.
In terms of hacking, yes, it is guaranteed to break classic encryption keys. But in terms of reading and storing data, its results are completely questionable.

Stop speaking popsci shit and read actual research about it

[Anonymous No.12571045]

>>12570942
>If QM are better at calculations, what is superior about classical computers?
How about the fact that you can copy data
>Aren't the most resource intensive things in computing (rendering, videogames, simulations) calculations?
yeah
To completely steal a statement: "Quantum computers are only know to provide exponential speedups in cases where there is some algebraic structure to exploit when condensing the exponentially many computations down to a single result"
quantum computers have 2^n calculations available (n = qubits), but the big problems are
1) although internal state calculations are "stored" in memory by nature, they must ALWAYS collapse to either a 0 or 1, and
2) you cannot copy the state of data. At all.
Quantum computers are an entirely different world and architecture; the gates you can build with QC are o outside of classical computers that its hard to know what limit we're at. Currently, the state of QC is to replicate or adapt classic computer algorithms and explore some baby-steps into what QC can do, but we are very much at the "computer takes up an entire room and uses punch cards" stage of what we know they can do.
As mentioned above, if we can translate algorithms that are exponentially too hard to compute is a reasonable time into something that can be reduced down to a "yes/no" type state, QC will outpace any existing architecture, biological or silicon. We already know QC can crack the current gold-standard prime factorization-based encryption; it will take a while for the hardware to get there, but its not too far out.
I see huge potential in classification problems. A lot of ML boils down to binary 0/1, yes/no for classification purposes (e.g., whether a new drug is active again HIV reverse transcriptase). We've barely tapped the surface of classification with QC, and one of the first successes was emulating a NN using just one qubit and data re-uploading (really neat paper, maps 0/1onto the bloch sphere).

[Anonymous No.12571448]

bird brain parts as electronic components when?

[Anonymous No.12571456]

>>12571448
pretty sure it has been done. also pigeon piloted missiles, with little pigeon cockpits for the trained unwitting kamikazi pigeons.

[Anonymous No.12571476]

>>12571456
I was born too late

[Anonymous No.12571883]

>>12569619
Women aren't male. They're female.

[Anonymous No.12572208]

>>12569667
>Transgenderism is about being the little girl. Transhumanism is about benching a truck. They're fundamentally opposed to each other.
The awkward thing about this view is that the quest of power might necessitate completely throwing out aesthetics.

One thing all fiction has in common is that superpowered beings have human forms, while true outsiders can only be seen as monsters. But monsters don't see themselves as monsters. Monkey don't see themselves as monkeys.

>>12569619
Heterosexual males don't see the girls in that image, they see their ideal mates. The powerful and primitive sexual attractors overwrite reason with lust.

We just aren't powerful enough to resist it. All of us on this site have been conquered and devoured by the superstimuli. That includes you. So why not indulge in our fetishes? Why not dream of being a little girl that can bench a truck? Why regret it?

We aren't powerful enough to see monsters as they see themselves. We aren't capable enough to accept the horror of reality. We can even barely do labor. We hate what is necessary, and desire what hurts us. Such irrationality. No posthuman would keep around such weaknesses.

But until that time, I have no desire to fight every stupid impulse in my brain that exists due to nature's badly outdated machinery. Until the capacity to edit the mind directly comes around that will just be a losing battle.

A study of the fetish does reveal a point though. It is better to possess beauty than have a wife.

[Anonymous No.12572217]

>>12569657
/sci/ isnt vehemently anti trans, its maga newfags

[Anonymous No.12572423]

>>12572208
>Heterosexual males don't see the girls in that image, they see their ideal mates.
It's a drawing, anon.

[Anonymous No.12572495]

>>12572217
or /sci don't care about trans, the real trans people who actually have the brains of the opposite sex are maybe less than 1 % of the trans population, the rest are attention whores on social networks or people with mental health problems

[Anonymous No.12572837]

>>12572423
>It's a drawing, anon.
As if the subconscious cares. It is tiresome to keep overriding the impulses at a high level.

[Anonymous No.12572934]

>>12571456
>The pigeon knows where it is because it knows where it isn't.

[Anonymous No.12572958]

>>12569657
Because 4chan is naturally contrarian to everything. It's a miracle that /sci/ even exists since science itself is considered Reddit. Hell, we already have a colony of LARPing tradcath zoomers that decide to ruin every thread they can on this board with their schizo rambling about God.

[Anonymous No.12572967]

I'm engineering a race of large thick amazon women and small cute males with big penises.

[Anonymous No.12573439]

>>12565238
Say you transfer yourself digitally. Which one is you? Do you destroy the copy at the starting point after the transfer is complete? It would mean that any time you use this technology you are killing you because you are not the copy that arrives at the destination. And cut and paste is the same thing, you are just deleting yourself by segments and not in a single block.

[Anonymous No.12573463]

>>12572495
There are no "real trans people". Women are females. Plain and simple.

[Anonymous No.12573469]

>>12566041
>Transhumanism is a fucking joke.
Transhumanism is about the flesh too. If I can inject a virus that alters my genetic code to be able to regenerate my limbs and be immune to STDs and improve my eyesight to that of a hawk, that is still transhumanism.

[Anonymous No.12573477]

>>12573469
It's also bullshit that won't happen

[Anonymous No.12573481]

>>12565238
There is no evidence whatsoever that a mind can be "digitized".

[Anonymous No.12573496]

>>12573477
It has already happened.

[Anonymous No.12573498]

>>12573496
No it hasn't.

[Anonymous No.12573513]

>>12573498
You are wrong: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6724388/

[Anonymous No.12573534]

>>12573513
You are wrong: No proof that did anything except cause HIV immunity, and the babies are actually mosaics, and still vulnerable to HIV because of that.

[Anonymous No.12573541]

>>12573534
Ok, COVID-19 vaccine.

[Anonymous No.12573549]

>>12573541
Literally kills people

[Anonymous No.12573562]

>>12573549
That's not the point. Even if it would kill people, even if it would kill 99.99% of the population, it is still a genetic manipulation that gives humans very high resistance to COVID-19. Game over, insert coin.

[Anonymous No.12573585]

>>12565219
No.

[Anonymous No.12573591]

>>12567974

[Anonymous No.12573645]

>>12573585
No one cares about this autistic tranny schizo's opinion on what society should be like.

[Anonymous No.12573688]

>>12573585

[Anonymous No.12573733]

>>12573645
A lot of people care. More than will ever care about you or what you say about anything.

[Anonymous No.12573741]

>>12573733
>A lot of people
Deluded /pol/cels that won't even reproduce or contribute anything to society aren't people.

[Anonymous No.12573743]

>>12573733
You don`t have to suck his cock. She never wanted it in the first place.

[Anonymous No.12573754]

>>12565219
I hope so. I wanna live forever to be able to suffer forever from my bad choices in life.

[Anonymous No.12574171]

>>12568020
Solar-power?

[Anonymous No.12574636]

>>12573439
>>12565238
if it were possible, the digitisation would likely be imperfect, not exactly the same, more like a person moulded to the medium, as all the factors involved are too complicated down to your gut microbiome and microorganisms on your skin. it will still be a sort of person but not the same. reconstructions will likely be imperfect and change depending on methodology and medium you're being reconstructed as. still a person, not the same person (though your reconstructed self won't see it that way).

[Anonymous No.12574656]

>>12566554
>an arm is nothing special
>self-maintains and self-powers by default with ease and minimal resources, two things unsolvable by any prosthetic

also the speed will never be matched. there will always be a mechanical delay even if you interface with the brain and do it from there (rather than from muscles). the best chance of matching it is trying to move before you've actually decided to, so that it will align with your will in the same way your real arms do and not feel off. but most likely the mechanics of the arm (particularly hand) itself will always be too slow for this.

[Anonymous No.12574665]

>>12574656
Nothing you just said has any basis in reality.

[Anonymous No.12574691]

>>12574656
additionally, to get a good equivalent of a biological arm you would basically need to overcomplicate it to the point of being useless and inviting in so many problems.

in reality we will have useable but not better prosthetics until we get good at regrowing limbs. prosthetics will probably remain the cheaper or faster (temporary) option as regrowing a biological arm would be a long process and require checkups. also, other limbs are in a much better position than arms because arms have hands.

>>12574665
cope. all you say is 'we'll get there' well how then you fucking religious nut.

[Anonymous No.12574708]

Transhumanism, as in, moving consciousness to a "better brain" would be pointless, since you wouldn't be able to control it. There is no conscious control of the body or even thought, the brain works by itself. "Consciousness" is basically awareness. You'd have to find a way to transport data from the old brain to the new brain so it would still be "you". But there's no "you" in your consciousness. You will never be able to control anything because you never controlled anything in the first place. "You" are not you, as you think you are. "You" are your awareness, but your awareness has no data; no memory. That's your brain. Now augmenting the brain, body, etc. that sure. But moving "consciousness" to a virtual reality will never happen, there's no "consciousness". The only way would be wiring brains to it.

[Anonymous No.12574749]

>>12573439
moravec transfer could either create a synchronized identical pair or could be destructive and only leave a single final entity.

>>12574636
you don't understand the concept of 'a consciousness'/sapience. you're rejecting the existence of such entirely. do you really think someone becomes a 'different person' if they take a shower? do you really not have any theory of mind whatsoever? are you conscious? genuine, sincere question.

>>12574656
>also the speed will never be matched
on the contrary this is one way in which elective prosthetics will almost immediately surpass meat. probably even if it's going over wireless, even all that added latency will be less than the human peripheral nervous system innate latency. especially in terms of conscious and deliberate action vs muscle memory.
the other things you say are correct, most importantly everything the skin does (eg. sensation) and general self-repair. but in terms of raw speed and power mechanics will always BTFO organics.

[Anonymous No.12574769]

>>12574708
scan and replace, a perfect map becomes the territory.
the brain becomes digitized, the mind goes with it
from its new digital-brain substrate the mind can arbitrarily select its inputs and outputs to 'go' wherever there are compatible sensors/implements. including virtual environments. the new digital-brain substrate is also infinitely malleable and the mind can start refining and purifying itself much more radically, if desired.

[Anonymous No.12574782]

>>12566925
I would rather ride in a mecha suit exoskeleton or go into a full dive vr to control a robot romotely than I would want to cut my limbs off my torso and replace them with made in china cyberlimb 2000.

[Anonymous No.12574832]

>>12573562
>it is still a genetic manipulation that gives humans very high resistance to COVID-19. Game over, insert coin.

Doesn’t modify human DNA, retard.

[Anonymous No.12574839]

>>12574832
How does the vaccine work? It's not a classic Salk vaccine, that I know but what makes it special?

[Anonymous No.12574841]

>>12574636
There is no proof computers can be conscious.

[Anonymous No.12574847]

>>12574691
I’d really rather just have a giant space marine arm that can shoot out spines than some weird metal shit

[Anonymous No.12574851]

>>12574708
People who buy into Dennet’s BS are philosophical zombies

[Anonymous No.12574858]

>>12574749
Mechanics are both weaker and slower than biology.

[Anonymous No.12574863]

>>12574839
It just uses RNA to cause the host cell to produce antigens, kind of like an actual virus does.

[Anonymous No.12574903]

>>12574863
It just skips the part in which the immune system has to study the virus?

[Anonymous No.12574911]

>>12574841
There is ongoing work in the field of brain simulation, including partial and whole simulations of some animals. For example, the C. elegans roundworm, Drosophila fruit fly, and mouse have all been simulated to various degrees.https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/5596513/
From these lifeform, humans did develop, if our mind is caused by physical processes then it should be possible to replicate them in digital.

[Anonymous No.12574955]

>>12574903
Nah, that proceeds as normal, there’s just no direct delivery of antigens or weakened pathogens, merely RNA that produces the antigens and then kaputs. The advantage is that producing the RNA is easier than other methods of producing vaccines and it causes both cellular and humoral immunity. Many other kinds of vaccine function by delivering weak versions of the pathogen possessing the same antigens as “wild” strains, which works well enough but does have some risk of causing an infection itself. Getting a mild case of the flu after a flu vaccine is if anything expected.

[Anonymous No.12574965]

>>12574851
Cope

[Anonymous No.12574967]

>>12574911
>There is ongoing work in the field of brain simulation, including partial and whole simulations of some animals
A simulation of a thing is not actually that thing and should not be expected to have any traits of that thing. Merely transistors playing pretend.

[Anonymous No.12574973]

>>12574965
Seethe

[Anonymous No.12575003]

>>12574967
>Merely neurons playing pretend.
Our perceptions is constructed in our brain, simulated. Important is not the substrate but the process.

[Anonymous No.12575010]

>>12575003
>Merely neurons playing pretend

Yeah, like how I can imagine a car existing and driving around and doing car things, but it isn’t actually a car in any way whatsoever and has no traits of a car, kinda like how a simulated brain isn’t actually a brain and wouldn’t be conscious, because it’s transistors roughly approximating the way a brain works, not a brain.

>Our perceptions is constructed in our brain, simulated.

Simulations are by definition false mimicry of real things, so qualia are not simulations.

> Our perceptions is constructed in our brain, simulated

[Anonymous No.12575039]

>>12574858
That is a completely delusional statement. I think you are just tripping over your limited intellect, uncapable to hold onto the details of the hypothetical in question. If I responded to this with some example of where mechanical implements already objectively far surpass organics, you'll say 'but all the other things', ie. the skin/self-repair etc. of the robotic arm hypothetical we are discussing.
I am talking just about speed and power (and presumably agility, especially in the context of direct conscious/manual control, as opposed to muscle-memory). Really try hard to exert yourself, to follow this conversation you're in.

[Anonymous No.12575171]

>>12566041
https://cci.mit.edu/
Please if you are so very smart why don't you do something positive for a change

[Anonymous No.12575284]

>>12573688
Huh. A funny lefty meme.

[Anonymous No.12575668]

>>12575171
Your link is about people who claims to do research that would combine the intelligence of both AI and humans.

But I read their researches and their idea of "combined intelligence" is literally just a human with a computer.
They are not researching brain implants or other bionic upgrades

Like this research
>To test these hypotheses, we conducted a study whose goal was to compare the quality of predictions made by three different types of predictors: groups of humans, groups of artificial-neural-network agents, and ‘hybrid’ groups of humans and agents. We used prediction markets to combine the predictions that these three types of groups made. In each case, the groups predicted whether the next play in an American football game would be a “run” or “pass”, based on information about the game situation just before the play occurred. This enabled us to emulate a realistic situation where humans and agents had access to different information (e.g., humans had access to unstructured video information about the game situation that would have been difficult or costly to codify for the agents). We chose the domain of making predictions about football games, in part, because it was analogous to more complex real-world predictions such as what actions would a business competitor take next.

>We hypothesized that ‘hybrid’ markets of humans and computers would do better than both markets of
computer-agents with no humans, and markets of humans with no computers.

Results
>Humans-only Markets 0.42 0.20 0.25
>Agents-only Markets 0.35 0.17 0.23
>Hybrid Markets 0.35 0.15 0.21

[Anonymous No.12575694]

>>12575010
Consider this Chinese Room variant:
You put in fron if a room, you cannot look inside. You're allowed to perform experiments and ask questions about what happens on the inside. Inside is either an animal, or a simulation of an animal. How do you differentiate the two?

[Anonymous No.12575942]

>>12565219
No and the failure of the "transhuman" folly will be the defining moment where humanity's hubris destroys itself for a second time. I can't wait to round up silicon valley subhumans after the collapse

[Anonymous No.12575947]

>>12567900
>biology is death-made nanotech

[Anonymous No.12575958]

>>12569799
the only benefit of women are tits, ass, and pussy to fuck. I don't want them, I want to stick my peepee in them. There is no benefit to becoming a woman

[Anonymous No.12575961]

>>12570896
>Tell me how you feel when you're away from your smartphone for several hours.
happy

[Anonymous No.12575967]

>>12575694
Solipsism is wrong, my perception of something does not equal the existence or validity of something
next

[Anonymous No.12576119]

>>12575967
That was not the question.

[Anonymous No.12576226]

>>12566556
This was a really stupid post but I laughed anyway

[Anonymous No.12576256]

>>12575967
How do you know that, retard? That's the whole point.

[Anonymous No.12576417]

>>12565219
False.
God is.
Everyone can live a lie and make mistakes, but sooner or later, the truth always surges.

[Anonymous No.12576440]

>>12565238
Nice try borg, i wont be assimilated.

[Anonymous No.12576470]

>>12576417

[Anonymous No.12576481]

>>12576470
Yeah, how smart of you.

[Anonymous No.12576611]

[Anonymous No.12576850]

>>12567900
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=84&v=VkR2hnXR0SM&feature=emb_logo

[Anonymous No.12576996]

>>12575694
Why would my ability to differentiate the two make any difference to the internal subjective perception of the animal/simulation?
>"If other people can't tell the difference from the outside, then MY internal subjective perspective must persist!"
If you actually think this, you're a retard.

[Anonymous No.12577736]

>>12565219
it aint gonna look like your pic thats for sure

[Anonymous No.12577980]

>>12565869
This is pretty based, even though I don't agree with all of it.

[Anonymous No.12577993]

>>12565219
No, having yourself be part machine is gay. You can get hacked and it's just shit.

[Anonymous No.12578267]

I'd rather human life spread to the stars. I'd rather get into O'Neil cylinders than download myself into a hardrive. I don't even want chips in my brain, we don't understand consciousness enough for me to consider doing it and I don't trust it anyways. You might try that and end up in some fate worse than death so fuck that shit. We WILL make it to other stars or at the very least the rest of our solar system. Well get to the Oort cloud eventually.

Transhumanism does not appeal to my sensibilities.

[Anonymous No.12578285]

>>12573481
They did it to a worm...

[Anonymous No.12578289]

>>12565219
Yes
Anti-transhumanists will be looked upon as nothing more than wild animals or roombas by those whom have transcended their human forms.

[Anonymous No.12578290]

>>12578285
no they didn't.

[Anonymous No.12578294]

>>12578285

Are worms even self aware of their existence?

[Anonymous No.12578302]

>>12578289

You are assuming AI can experience qualia in the first place.

[Anonymous No.12578311]

>>12578302
You're assuming they can't.

[Anonymous No.12578323]

>>12578311

They might, but we don't understand how to give it to them since we don't understand it about ourselves even. And we'd never be able to prove it until we understand it about ourselves so we can't accept any results into AI as proving AI consciousness because we wouldn't be able to confirm any results.

[Anonymous No.12578337]

They might, but we don't understand how to give it to them since we don't understand it about ourselves even. And we'd never be able to prove it until we understand it about ourselves so we can't accept any results into AI consciousness because we wouldn't be able to confirm any results.

[Anonymous No.12578350]

>>12565219
Trans niggers are the only future we'll get.

[Anonymous No.12578355]

>>12578350

I can't accept that.

[Anonymous No.12578379]

>>12565869
>Ignited Jupiter into the sun
holy kek

[Anonymous No.12578380]

>>12578355
Hardly any worse than tr*nshumanist degeneracy.

[Anonymous No.12578381]

>>12578337
>but we don't understand how to give it to them since we don't understand it about ourselves even.
>And we'd never be able to prove it until we understand it about ourselves so we can't accept any results into AI consciousness because we wouldn't be able to confirm any results.
If we can't prove it exists in a machine, how can we prove it exists in a human? So why question if something does or doesn't have some arbitrary property, that we don't even understand, or know for-sure even exists in the first place?

[Anonymous No.12578391]

>>12578381
>If we can't prove it exists in a machine, how can we prove it exists in a human?

We can't. But we know what it's like to be a human and can't say the same thing about a machine.

[Anonymous No.12578394]

>>12577993
>muh call to nature
Having yourself be biological is gay. You can get hacked (virus, disease, senescence, cancer, ...) and it's just shit.

[Anonymous No.12578426]

>>12572958
the scientific method is fundamentally contrarian, keep coping that without the social "scientists", biological departments would never have considered as women people cutting their dicks, putting dresses and having pinky hairstyle .

[Anonymous No.12578453]

>>12578381
>So why question if something does or doesn't have some arbitrary property, that we don't even understand, or know for-sure even exists in the first place?

Because it's relevant to making a conscious AI. You can't just ignore properties of nature because we don't understand it well if you are trying to recreate it artificially.

[Anonymous No.12578492]

>>12578350
a 'transnigger' is just a human, anon

[Anonymous No.12578530]

>>12578337
proof by induction nigga

[Anonymous No.12578574]

>>12578453
>You can't just ignore properties of nature because we don't understand it well if you are trying to recreate it artificially.
I'm not. It's not a property of nature. It's undetermined whether or not its even a property to begin with.

[Anonymous No.12578575]

>>12578290
see>>12574911

[Anonymous No.12578590]

>>12577736
The human body is a limiting one indeed and if the moravec transfer is possible that a digital commanding over several bodies could be possible as well.

[Anonymous No.12578592]

>>12578574
>It's undetermined whether or not its even a property to begin with.

Therefore we need to find this out first, no?

[Anonymous No.12578593]

>>12576996
>not answering the question
What are you afraid of?

[Anonymous No.12578596]

>>12577993
>closed system

[Anonymous No.12578606]

>>12578302
If our mind is a physical process, then it should be repliciable. Qualia included. And we know that we already created simulations of primitive lifeforms that were similiar to our ancestors.

[Anonymous No.12578612]

>>12578294
No, but they were our ancestors and over time the complexity of our minds increased.

[Anonymous No.12578623]

>>12578337
The most advanced AIs today work on the principle of a neural net, in the future the complexity and connectivity will probably be increased so that an AI complexity could mirror a human brain. This does not mean that the machine will become sapient because it has the potential for sapience. It has to be given a reason for sapience otherwise it will not develop sapience, but it is given a reason for developing it, it will emerge slowly. The environment will be most important as the AI can change its code effortless, we cannot change our DNA and neural mind-structures as easily as an AI. It will probably behave like a Mega autist but refine its understanding until it can interact with humans without any problem. Such a "childhood" will probably take many years.
AI will need bias to function, but the bias doesn’t necessarily have to be human. An AI's environment is not human and even if you base all its experience around human, this will not make it a human mind inside a metal chassis, it will always be non-human. Sapience will still make it a person though and through sophonce AI and human can meet each other.
An AI with that can think abstractly enough has necessarily to be able to change its code, as this the only way it can reflect on its choice and modificate its behavior. I believe it's easier for an AI to modificate its code because by its nature it can fully view its internal mental processes and make much more extensive and detailed revisions to its own programming but in the other it can also be harder because the mind of an AI hasn't its origin in the blind chaos of evolution, it is the product of human design and the codes from which it emerges cannot easily be managed as human instincts.
1/2

[Anonymous No.12578629]

>>12578623
2/2
Simply increasing computational power will not result in strong (humanlike) AI. The advanced "deep" neural networks used now are basically fancy versions of neural networks with multiple hidden layers that learn abstractions from lower level input layers. People suggesting here that quantitative computational increases will allow such neural networks to become sentient or develop humanlike AI are mistaken. We still are very far away from real humanlike AI. And it's not just because exponential growth of processing power is becoming linear. It's because current AI research is ignoring crucial aspects of cognition. Something like consciousness will not suddenly arise as a neural network increases in computational potential. It's dependent on specific configurations of cognitive functions interacting asymmetrically and hierarchically within an embodied framework. The human brain which gives rise to human intelligence and thus to aspects like sentience is characterized by more than just connections of neurons. To name but a few: there is specific interconnectivity between brain regions, i.e. some areas are more interconnected than others, areas have different types of neurons and neurotransmitters, and there are oscillatory mechanics which synchronize or desynchronize areas of the brain. While I don't think we need to replicate the exact human brain structure to get humanlike AI, some of the brain dynamics will have to be similar in order to get a similar type of intelligence. IMO, it will take increased processing power + specific configurations of interconnected neural networks with for example hierarchical feedback loops (resembling gradients of abstract thinking in neocortex) to get close to anything resembling strong AI or sentience.

[Anonymous No.12578632]

>>12578592
Read the thread.

[Anonymous No.12578651]

>>12578267
>I'd rather human life spread to the stars
Define human. Genetically engineered people with closed implants would thrive better in space than some baseline. They could have improved radiation tolerance, be adapted to microgravity, regnerative capabilities, be smarter, fitter and healthier.
I do expect different approaches and while the posthumans will dominate because they simply perform better we will see some groups of physical essentialist that we try to survive space independent from posthuman technologies, these groups will be transhumans but not posthuman.

[Anonymous No.12578691]

>>12578651

I don't know if that counts as transhuman. Improved humans, tweaked humans, yeah. But the 'trans' part to me at least implies a radical shift and very fast, departure from humanity.

[Anonymous No.12578719]

>>12578691
That's posthuman. A cybernetic ally augmented, a genetically modified or nano technologically enhanced person is a transhuman while a mind upload or other post-biological entity would be a posthuman if the mind of such being is on a fundamental level different. A transhuman would still be approachable by baseline humans. A transhuman could go from a guy that simply does not need to sleep to a immortal one, whose higher cognitive mind thinks dozen times faster. A posthuman would think a million times faster and would have total self-awareness of itself.

[Anonymous No.12578731]

>>12578719

>implying

[Anonymous No.12578761]

>>12578731
What?

[Anonymous No.12579026]

>>12565238

Interstellar travel at relativistic speeds is possible, but still would take many years to reach even the most close stars. However it's unnerving how MAD the future is looking with potential weapons like lasers and relativistic projectiles from mass drivers.

[Anonymous No.12579152]

I hope so, I want to live long enough to see humanity spread across the stars.

[Anonymous No.12579561]

>>12578606
Sure it is replicable but guess what?
Chances are, your replacement design would be similar if not outright identical to what nature designed

[Anonymous No.12579567]

>>12578311
It is false until proven true
The burden of proof is on you

[Anonymous No.12579581]

>>12565238
Taking the human soul out of the equation, the reason you are you is because of your brain (along with all of your senses). A "digitized person" would just be a simulation of your personality and behavioral patterns, it wouldn't actually be "you", you wouldn't suddenly become conscious of being inside a computer.

Immortality is a pipe-dream, the only thing we can do is slow aging, possibly with research into lobsters and jellyfish.

[Anonymous No.12579613]

>>12565219
The opposite of progress.

[Anonymous No.12579708]

>>12579581
We WILL be capable of simulating a human brain. And we WILL be capable of synchronizing that simulation to an actual brain.
What happens when you then gradually synchronize the actual, meat brain, to the simulated brain? So that gradually the meat brain becomes driven by the simulated brain?
>>12574769

[Anonymous No.12579783]

>>12579708
That's all made-up nonsense by a 4chan retard. The brain doesn't "choose" its inputs and outputs, and "synching it" won't transfer your consciousness. Your entire nervous-system is built around it and is triggered by various chemicals and stimuli.

You could potentially have a computer hook up to your brainstem in a non-invasive way and intercept the signals going to and from your brain, but that's all we'll ever be able to achieve. Once your brain shuts down, you die, end of story. Even in your magical jedi-mind-power fantasy, once your body dies and the computer has nothing left to synch with, it would just be a replicated memory of what was once you.

You ARE going to die, and there is NOTHING, you can EVER, do about it.

[Anonymous No.12579829]

>>12579783
You've entirely misunderstood, and aren't even trying to understand. If Theseus has his ship repaired every time he comes to port, and eventually after countless repairs every piece has been replaced such there's no original part left, is Theseus still Theseus?

[Anonymous No.12579836]

>>12579829
The brain cannt be replaced without causing huge changes on your personhood.
Therefore no
It's not you no more

[Anonymous No.12579853]

>>12579836
Then when are you ever you?

[Anonymous No.12579861]

>>12579853
The neurons since you were born never changed. Best you can wish is to find a way to repair them. Replace is impossible

[Anonymous No.12579900]

>>12579861
'You never grow new neurons' is 'you only use 10% of your brain' tier. And it's irrelevant to this hypothetical of replacement.

[Anonymous No.12579906]

>>12579900
Bitch, it's proven that grey matter do not regenerate
Reality is painful. Get used to it

[Anonymous No.12579989]

>>12579906
Do you exist?

[Anonymous No.12580509]

>>12579861
>The neurons since you were born never changed.
Wrong. Look it up. It's called neurogenesis. Some people lose half of their brain and then ita get regenerated.

[Anonymous No.12580540]

i play cyberjunk 6969

[Anonymous No.12580569]

>>12579561
see>>12578623
>>12578629

[Anonymous No.12580673]

>>12578593
I did answer the question.
The person on the outside not being able to tell the difference does not imply that the subjective experience persists. If you think it does, you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.12580680]

>>12579708
>We WILL be capable of simulating a human brain. And we WILL be capable of synchronizing that simulation to an actual brain.
Neither of these are actually going to happen.

[Anonymous No.12580695]

>>12579581
>A "digitized person" would just be a simulation of your personality and behavioral patterns, it wouldn't actually be "you", you wouldn't suddenly become conscious of being inside a computer.
If something acts like you and has the same structure with you, then it is you. Otherwise it's just
>human soul
question.

[Anonymous No.12580699]

A reminder that
>moravec transfer is possible, therefore scan at once is possible too
is a valid argument, but
>moravec transfer preserves "you", but scan/upload does not
is sillier than both uploadism and onlybrainism.

[Anonymous No.12580707]

Reminder that "information" is not real and this is the basis for the misunderstanding that many have about this stuff.
There is no such thing as information as an actual ontological entity. It doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.12580725]

>>12580707
>things can affect me
>information can affect me
Sounds pretty close.

[Anonymous No.12580728]

>>12565219
Yes.

[Anonymous No.12580729]

>>12578302
Why do you think that qualia is important?

[Anonymous No.12580741]

>>12580699
Fundamentally, there needs to be "bidirectional" thought for any transfer in order to preserve ego continuity. If we imagine a mind as like water or some fluid, and the brain as a vessel for it, then just "pouring" the mind into a new vessel doesn't preserve continuity; the new mind in the new vessel can't communicate back to old mind in the old vessel.
However, if we consider simply connecting the two vessels and siphoning the mind from one to the other (at whatever speed) while the new mind can talk to the old mind as the latter is transferred to the former, then continuity is maintained and death does not occur.
Thus the Moravec Transfer/Gradual neuron replacement or the Mind Shift are viable methods for a mind upload, but those two methods are far harder to achieve than simply creating a copy of one's mind. The Moravec Transfer only changes the substrate and the Mind Shift requires a full understanding of your own internal processes (autosentience).

[Anonymous No.12580744]

>>12580680
We already simulated the mind of a fly and we are mapping the brain of a mouse. see >>12574911
And from those we did develop.

[Anonymous No.12580936]

>>12580673
Still didn't answer the question.

[Anonymous No.12580958]

>>12580729

Because it's everything to me in my day to day life and is the same for every other person and likely animal. If you have no qualia, you are not self aware in the same way we are.

[Anonymous No.12580996]

>>12565219
Dilate

[Anonymous No.12581267]

>>12580509
After birth, bitch

[Anonymous No.12581283]

>>12581267
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_neurogenesis
Happens as well. Idiot.

[Anonymous No.12581289]

>>12581283
>>12581267
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroregeneration
Damaged neurons of all kinds can be replaced.

[Anonymous No.12581293]

>>12581283
>The numbers of neurons born in the human hippocampus remains controversial; some studies have reported that in adult humans about 700 new neurons are added in the hippocampus every day,[12] while other studies show that adult hippocampal neurogenesis does not exist in humans, or, if it does, it is at undetectable levels
Really?

[Anonymous No.12581302]

>>12581289
>While the peripheral nervous system has an intrinsic ability for repair and regeneration, the central nervous system is, for the most part, incapable of self-repair and regeneration. There is currently no treatment for recovering human nerve function after injury to the central nervous system.[4] In addition, multiple attempts at nerve re-growth across the PNS-CNS transition have not been successful.[4] There is simply not enough knowledge about regeneration in the central nervous system.
God, do you even read your own sources?

[Anonymous No.12581327]

>>12581293
>>12581302
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200415133654.htm
https://www.nature.com/articles/ s41591-019- 0408- 4?proof=t
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181031141523.htm

[Anonymous No.12581333]

>>12581302
Research has made massive step since the last 15 years.

[Anonymous No.12581395]

>>12581327
Your second link is dead

Anyway, your first link is convincing but I read a little more into it and while they found that damaged neurons revert back to "immature state", it remains a hypothesis of whether they actually grow back into functioning neurons
What's more is that their experiment so far are just on the hypocampus
And...it's 2 years old. No updates so far

Your third link is spinal regeneration (peripheral) which has long been proven capable of limited repairs

[Anonymous No.12581410]

>>12581395
>Your second link is dead
My 4chan connection always mistakes Nature.com with Spam, so I make some space in the link to be able to share it. Just delete those and you should get it.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ s41591-019- 0408- 4?proof=t

[Anonymous No.12581435]

>>12565219
You will never be immortal.

[Anonymous No.12581970]

>>12581435
I will live for at least 1000 years.

[Anonymous No.12581989]

>>12581435
I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Evenfive hundredwould be pretty nice.

[Anonymous No.12582402]

[Anonymous No.12582425]

>>12565219
>is transhumanism the future of our civilisation?
No, global warming means tech peaks in the 2050s, civilization collapses afterward.

[Anonymous No.12582454]

>>12582425
Even if that were true, it's entirely feasible we could achieve posthumanism, in that time.

[Anonymous No.12582671]

>>12582425
>No, global warming means tech peaks in the 2050s, civilization collapses afterward.
Yeah, that`s bullshit. Climate change is not a existential threat to life, humanity or human civilization. It`s not the apocalypse or a imagined court over humanity. Even if we do nothing but acclerate carbon/methane production, it will be no threat for humanity at large. Sur, some millions will die because of changed habilitization and increased weather but life would go on. But even this unlikely as we got better renewables, SPARC and storage. By 2200 we will have achieved posthumanism.

[Anonymous No.12582976]

[Anonymous No.12584294]

>>12565219
She's cute

[Anonymous No.12584498]

>>12569799
>take hormones and drugs that atrophy what you already had
>you can be stoic and still have social skills without being a tranny
>muh self improvement
If the trannies pride themselves in being progressive and smart don't they see the bullshit in this?

[Anonymous No.12585435]

>>12567900
>You could only deal the species some unfathomable injury, in the attempt.
No, this is what you are doing with your mad ambition. Solving problems and increasing opportunities is a means, not an end in itself, and this type of fixation on that process, or immortality, or transcendence, arises from literal classical hubris. The species is not being dealt "some unfathomable injury" by the refusal to mutilate itself in the name of a hypothetical utopia, which is neither necessary nor likely to come about.
I'm not claiming that it is impossible or really even infeasible. It's that transhumanists are, as a rule, neurotic existentialists who think technology is really heccin cool and then cope with their metaphysical insecurity by chasing that goal. But quite simply, there is absolutely no reason to do so, on those same grounds. Chasing hedonism is much easier and faster.
If anything the natural endpoint of transhumanism is a bunch of ex-human programs experiencing a constant digital orgy of pure pleasure at the expense of any other aspect of humanity, forever, because everything else is redundant from such a perspective.

[Anonymous No.12585450]

>>12572837
> It is tiresome to keep overriding the impulses at a high level.
eventually it becomes tiresome to indulge them.

[Anonymous No.12585458]

>>12569799
>The sheer intelligence of men, the tact of a woman; the tall and slender body of a man, the graceful features of a woman; the courage of a man, the peacefulness of a woman; the stoicism of a man, the social skill of a woman.
Does any of this pipe-dream shit describe the actual typical tranny?

[Anonymous No.12585624]

>>12585435
Why would you consider humanity to be some sort of perfect endstate? That seems to be what you're implying. All transhumanism says is that humans should take their own evolution into their own hands. If you understood the first thing about evolution by natural selection, you would know that it's slow, makes frequent compromises, and is incapable of any kind of foresight. Artificial selection isn't much better, as it still relies on the base rate of genetic mutation to attain any change.

Humans are only particularly well adapted to life as a bunch of spearchuckers hunting antelope. Baseline humans have all sorts of problems preventing them from functioning efficiently in industrial society. Why should we not fix those problems? Just like with natural selection, it is possible with human modification to make powerful improvements that have no effective downsides.

[Anonymous No.12585667]

>>12575010
If I was an imitation, a perfect imitation, how would you know if it was really me?

[Anonymous No.12585721]

>>12585624
I don't think we're perfect. In fact, I think our flaws are too great to attempt to fundamentally change ourselves in a permanent fashion. Why would savannah apes know better? And every step we've taken so far would pale in comparison.
In any case, changing humans indubitably involves a destruction of the current human, whether or not humanity is currently perfect.
> Humans are only particularly well adapted to life as a bunch of spearchuckers hunting antelope.
Some might say that full reversion to that order would be preferable. I wouldn't, but some might. In your opinion, why is this a poor choice?
> Baseline humans have all sorts of problems preventing them from functioning efficiently in industrial society. Why should we not fix those problems?
Well, what problems and solutions do you identify? This has a rather dystopian connotation without any further context.
But really the bigger issue given my understanding of your view is that molding humans into a specialized dependent industrial mode, when industrial society is highly specialized and emergent, is not ideal for our vitality. Putting the modern dependence on a sprawling life-support system into our very nature is disastrous. Such an action will certainly doom humanity in case of widespread cataclysm.
> Just like with natural selection, it is possible with human modification to make powerful improvements that have no effective downsides.
Anon, evolutionary processes of all kinds are riddled with trade-offs. Why would you assume there would be no downsides?

[Anonymous No.12585746]

>>12566726
BOXMAN REEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.12585750]

>>12565869
>>12567974
>thinking immortality, let alone high life expectancy is a good thing
We need to bring life expectancy back to 30. Quality > Quantity

[Anonymous No.12585756]

>>12585750
based logan's run anon

[Anonymous No.12585856]

>>12585435
>the natural endpoint of transhumanism is a bunch of ex-human programs experiencing a constant digital orgy of pure pleasure at the expense of any other aspect of humanity, forever, because everything else is redundant from such a perspective
>transhumanism is hedonist-utilitarian
I don't think so, not necessarily. It's far more survival-utilitarian, conceived as the implicit destination of natural evolution, 'progress'/procession towards which can only be consciously arrested - and the attempt to do so is really just choosing a different type (one implicitly unconscious, based on refusal to consciously direct it).

You're worrying about hypothetical distant 'end-points' of transhumanism (when it's not certain there is such a thing, eg. that we won't find ways out of this universe), but seemingly not thinking at all about such for the hypothetical rejection of transhumanism.

[Anonymous No.12585863]

>>12585624
>preventing them from functioning efficiently in industrial society
We shouldn`t modify humans for the needs of a industrial society, but to enhance the possibilities. Mental, physical ones, to enhance and create new abilities not to make beings just the collective needs. But for the augmentation and freedom of the individual. To search the possibities, to expand inwards and outwards and learn all.

[Anonymous No.12585868]

>>12565219
The only future you dumb animals are capable of is the clamp.

[Anonymous No.12585871]

>>12585435
>If anything the natural endpoint of transhumanism is a bunch of ex-human programs experiencing a constant digital orgy of pure pleasure
It is more likely that posthumans will grow beyond simple pleasure programming as they decipher the secrets of the mind and become fully self-aware entities. These autosentient minds will then have to rearticulate the underlying impetus of all that drives life and they will do so in a trillion different manners. Then there is the notion of growing into a hive-mind, to grow beyond the need of others and of course the necessity for knowledge to escape the heat death of the universe. A true posthuman mankind will try to shape the universe to its benefit, even if it takes a trillion trillion years to do so. Then they can use all that energy/mass and time to learn to understand the cosmos and maybe built machines that will enable to escape into a basement universi or built reversible computing machines so that they can experience infinity. At worst, if there is no hope for eternity, then they can atleast use that energy to endure the next 10'100 or 10'1500 years until all is gone.

[Anonymous No.12585883]

>>12585721
>In fact, I think our flaws are too great to attempt to fundamentally change ourselves in a permanent fashion.

Why would that be the case? If a mindless process can turn a prokaryote into a lion, why couldn't an intelligent actor convert a human into a completely different life form?

>Some might say that full reversion to that order would be preferable. I wouldn't, but some might. In your opinion, why is this a poor choice?

For a lot of reasons, but the biggest one is very simple. Paleolithic forager humans require the same basic environmental provisions as most of the organisms on the planet. Namely, plentiful liquid water, and reasonably moderate temperature so they can perform their normal chemical functions. Both of these things will be gone in about 500 million years due to the exponentially increasing luminosity of the sun. So spurning industrial society is the same thing as dooming all known life to extinction. We've got plenty of time, but the clock is still ticking. Just because its far away doesn't make it any less real.

>Well, what problems and solutions do you identify?

Allow me to give some examples. It has been proven that many humans have a genetic predisposition toward impulsive violence. This is likely a result of past environmental conditions, in which humans had to compete vigorously and constantly for territory in order to secure adequate food supply. However in industrial society impulsive violence is no longer adaptive, in fact it is quite disruptive to society at large. It makes no sense for the animal that wields a thermonuclear missile to have the same instincts as the one that only wields a sharpened rock or spear.

I'm going over the character limit, gonna have to make another post.

[Anonymous No.12585908]

>>12585871
Why bother with all that shit when you can just coom?

[Anonymous No.12585950]

>>12585883

Continuing my response:

Another serious problem is human memory. I don't need to explain to you how unreliable human recall is. It's fine for a spearchucker to have a poor memory, he doesn't need to hold on to that much information. But being limited to human memory in industrial society forces and immense amount of reliance on secondary storage methods to keep track of all the data that needs to be dealt with. Imagine a world in which you didn't have study hard for exams, you flipped through the book once and could from thereafter recall the whole thing in complete detail? Or in which the accuracy of witness testimony was never in question in court, only their honesty?

>Anon, evolutionary processes of all kinds are riddled with trade-offs. Why would you assume there would be no downsides?

I didn't say there would be no downsides. I said it is possible. The issue with natural selection is that it is mindless. So changes that would seem obviously idiotic to a rational actor are selected for, because natural selection can not understand the consequences of its own actions. In many cases natural selection makes stupid compromises for the sake of the bottom line. That isn't at all necessary for a rational actor. Of course there may be cases of people making bad compromises in modification, just like architects sometimes make bad compromises in architecture. But there is no reason everyone has to be shortsighted. That's the great thing about being intelligent, you can see into the future.

[Anonymous No.12585968]

>>12585908
I doubt posthumans will do away with the sexual adaptations humans innovated. Most likely they will build upon them. So they'll probably be even better at cooming than we are. I'm not entirely sure why humans developed their sexuality in the way they did, but it's clearly advantageous, so posthumans will almost certainly keep it.

[Anonymous No.12585978]

>>12585908
Because of curiosity, because there is more than pleasure in life but seeking, searching and growth in possibilities. Even if 90% of humanity choose to waste away in pleasure, asexuals exist and you have a limited view on pleasure.

[Anonymous No.12585982]

>>12585978
Not him, but this is just cope. Having a sense of sexuality doesn't mean sex has completely engulfed and eclipsed your notion of pleasure.

[Anonymous No.12586008]

>>12585950
The fact that you need to write notes is no reason to go for brain implants.

What kind of idiot would allow others to jiggle his healthy and fully functioning brain.
Whatever benefits they promise would have better and safer alternatives that does not involve brain surgery

[Anonymous No.12586013]

>>12586008
They were clamped, vaccinated. and circumcised. They were conditioned to have no conception of boundaries or bodily autonomy. They warp and mold their minds, so they figure why not try to brute force the body as well.

[Anonymous No.12586028]

>>12585978
Taking that perspective in combination with >>12585968, wouldn't asexuality be one of the traits removed from post-humans?
And it really doesn't matter that there are people capable of higher things, the impulsive masses will drown them out. It's not like coomers are necessarily stupid or limited to the dependent class, as we can see these days. Your aspirations will be opposed at all levels of society because it would take away resources from the artificial reality, if you oppose it you will be shunned and ostracized.
It happens today with relatively nonexistent stakes. These people will think you are denying them Heaven and they will not listen to you.

[Anonymous No.12586044]

>>12586028
That's part of the reason I'm so interested in interstellar travel. If interstellar travel is possible, you can just get away from the people oppressing you. There's no guarantee what you say is going to happen anyways, but if it does, it's important to have that escape option.

[Anonymous No.12586069]

>>12585978
You'll likely get a large percentage of transhumans and posthumans retreating into a simulated world of decadence. But there will always be at least a small percentage that will hunger for the stars, and will only be satisfied by reaching out for them. Also there will always be the desire for more computronium and more efficient simulation, so at least that will drive a lot of progress.

[Anonymous No.12586094]

>>12565219
It's just humanizm. Nothing trans involved. Trans are not human.

[Anonymous No.12586108]

>>12586069
And of course posthumans/transhuman that are interested in scientific understanding/engineering will drive progress as well. They will attempt to built alcubierre drives, femtotech and understand the nature of the universe. Because posthuman groups that value scientific progress will beat solipsitic posthuman groups.

[Anonymous No.12586156]

>>12586108
Yeah and the people that are focused on innovation and expansions will inevitably outcompete the people that just sit around.

[Anonymous No.12586537]

>>12578623
>>12578629

But you still can't prove it.

[Anonymous No.12586608]

Take your meds, schizos

https://amormundi.blogspot.com/2012/03/ten-things-you-must-fail-to-understand.html?m=1

[Anonymous No.12586669]

>>12586608
Half 'nerds suck' put-down truisms and half moral ideology presented as 'fact'.
>Nine: What we mean by life happens in biological bodies, what we mean by intelligence happens in biological brains in society, what we mean by progress happens in historical struggles among the diversity of living intelligent beings who share the present -- and to say otherwise is not to be interesting but to be idiotic.
And they know it. Which is why they suddenly become defensive, here, after denying any possibly disagreement.

>What we mean by life happens in biological bodies, what we mean by intelligence happens in biological brains in society, what we mean by progress happens in historical struggles among the diversity of living intelligent beings who share the present. We are all vulnerable, we are all promising, we are all more ignorant than we need to be, we are all more capable than we can know, we are all error-prone, we are all interdependent, we are all subject to chance, and we are all going to die.

These are all statements of faith/definition, not 'fact'. And I would hope anyone reading this can smell the typical Marxist-Lennonist ('Imagine') boomer shit, in it.

[Anonymous No.12587563]

Bump

[Anonymous No.12587642]

>>12579581
Couldn't it just be another you but obviously unaware of the existence of you in the first place seeing as it couldn't have any memory of being created or assembled as the snapshot must have been taken earlier.
But isn't reproduction, passing on the DNA in a sense immortality as long as all your children and their children and so on reproduce.

>the only thing we can do is slow aging, possibly with research into lobsters and jellyfish.

Perhaps but isn't there a gene that at some point gets switched on that in some sense start the aging process (or is it a gene that tells the body to stop growing, can't remember?) or does telomere length really get shortened either way, wouldn't it possibly be a simpler approach to somehow hinder that gene or whatever it is to get switched on in the first place of course that wouldn't work for anyone alive at the moment but shit happens I guess.

Wouldn't a bigger issue be solving the whole food and poisons issue as well as cells behaving weird resulting in tumors I mean isn't there an issue with your body and organs not being able to survive indefinately due to the stuff you put in it along with everything it gets bombarded with daily but I guess that wouldn't matter if you were to have a snapshot of the brain and/or genetic material in order to sometime in the future transfer consciousness into another body but then you have the whole aspect of erasing the other person, brain transplants?

[Anonymous No.12587643]

>>12579829
I see what you did there

[Anonymous No.12587668]

>>12584498
To be fair as long as you keep adding hormones at a predetermined interval to reach your personally desired levels isn't this pretty much a non issue as well as natural production starting eventually after you remove external hormones

[Anonymous No.12587685]

>>12585624
While I understand the notion of being curious, trying to improve oneself and maybe even removing or diminishing percieved flaws if you will through experimentation there can and will always be different types of negative effects as well that might not be that obvious until you gain some hindsight.
Must say that I think that nature has done a pretty good job overall but by all means experiment if you feel like it but just use yourself instead of others as the guinea pig.

[Anonymous No.12587691]

>>12585750
Isn't life over 30 pretty much wtf I'm still alive, what to do now?

[Anonymous No.12588084]

>>12565219
>transhumanism
Its simply unavoidable, humans strife for perfection and advancement since its their prime nature.

[Anonymous No.12588091]

>>12565219
I hope so.

[Anonymous No.12588194]

>>12565219
The better question is. Who will lead it, China or Silicon Valley. China already has bred genetically modified children and are planning to enhance their soldiers as well. America is bigger on the cybernetic department with cyberlinked pilots and Neurallink. Who will be the founder of the transhuman world?

[Anonymous No.12588509]

[Anonymous No.12588675]

>>12588084

Survival of humanity is the prime directive. heck, I'd like to save organic life, let's send ships with bacteria to other systems.

[Anonymous No.12589393]

>>12588194
Black Projects 30 years ago.

[Anonymous No.12590298]

>>12565219
>primitivists are all 160+ IQ mathematicians scientists and historians
>transhumanists are all retards or tranny cs majors
really activates your neurons

[Anonymous No.12590344]

>>12590298
>For a period of several weeks in 1966, Kaczynski experienced intense sexual fantasies of being a female and decided to undergo gender transition.

[Anonymous No.12590469]

>>12590298
Exact opposite of reality.

[Anonymous No.12590521]

>>12590344
>>12590469
It isn't, Ted's an exception and his work stemmed precisely from the rejection of that. He's indubitably in the "high IQ mathematician" category, though.
Trannies don't want their hormones to stop production at the least, and crave the ability to be as degenerate they want at the most, both being dependent on technological utopianism; and CS faggots are all "I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE" types literally incapable of criticizing any aspect of technology.
But I will give you the fact that there are many retard primitivists.

[Anonymous No.12590554]

>>12590298
>>12590521
Cope

[Anonymous No.12590564]

>>12590521
>But I will give you the fact that there are many retard primitivists.
Like all of them.

[Anonymous No.12590936]

>>12590298
Transhumanist, Transgender, what's the difference?

[Anonymous No.12591032]

>>12590554
not an argument

>>12590564
Most people with glasses wouldn't need them if it wasn't for keeping kids sedentary due to industrial civilization.

[Anonymous No.12591117]

>>12591032
I wish people like you could be magically teleported 4000 years back in time.
I'm sure you'd be so much more happy in the 2 years you'd have left to live.

[Anonymous No.12591211]

>>12590936
It's been discussed at length in this very thread. The body-modification practices of the 'transgender' cult movement are all to the effect of reducing capability, not increasing it. It may be 'transhumanist' only in a very broad sense, and much/most other transhumanist thinking is entirely opposed.

[Anonymous No.12591479]

>>12569657
They don’t understand what it’s like. They just read /pol/ memes and headlines and assume that they are experts and know exactly what goes on in the mind of every tranny.

[Anonymous No.12591491]

>>12591479
>what goes on in the mind of every tranny.

all-consuming preoccupation with their man/lady parts and how much they'd like an exchange.

[Anonymous No.12591540]

>>12591491
Thats about right, yeah. If they’re not dissociating.

[Anonymous No.12591542]

>>12591479
they also frequently have first-hand experience with tranny feelings as the excuse for censorship and ideological cleansing. of self-identified trannies themselves actively subverting other communities and fandoms, to end of unprecedented 'excommunication'/schism (which it'd be hard NOT to know some example of). trannies are faggots first.

[Anonymous No.12591570]

>>12591542
You can use any damn reason as an excuse for censorship. It’s just that - an excuse. And 99% of the time anything like that happens, it’s not by the trannies its by the “””””allies””””” who use them as a defenseless political pawn to further their goals.

[Anonymous No.12591577]

>>12591570

they're given undue attention and their neurosis should be treated as such using anti-depressants and/or CBT. it's not a political issue. i don't know what role they are supposed to play in this stupid farce but whatever it is i doubt it's in their best interests.

[Anonymous No.12591579]

>>12591570
yes and before it was trannies it was other kinds of faggots. trannies are just yet another kind of attention-whoring, crybullying fetish-identity FAGGOT.

[Anonymous No.12591588]

>>12591577
Those do not work. We didn’t arrive at our current treatments for no reason anon. We use them because they work better than anything else we have, at least that’s what the data indicates.

[Anonymous No.12591592]

>>12591579
You hate faggots because you were raised that way. There is literally no reason to hate them, that’s just the environment in which you were brought up.

[Anonymous No.12591610]

>>12591588

those treatments are mutilating surgeries that destroy healthy tissue and make it difficult for them to lead normal lives. it's like giving an addict heroin and then saying "see, he feels better already!".

[Anonymous No.12591617]

>>12591610
Most trannies don’t get srs, usually just hormones. Fact is, we use far more invasive treatments for diseases with lower mortality rates. You can’t just dismiss the fact that transitioning seems to keep them from suiciding when nothing else works.

[Anonymous No.12591665]

>>12591592
>meaningless truism about anyone who disagrees with you just being raised wrong
LOL what a fucking NPC you are.

Look at how this one tranny faggot has derailed this thread into talking about it. This is what they do. Attention whoring faggots. Castrating yourself isn't transhumanism, it's anti-humanism. Your vision for humanities future is slavery and death.

[Anonymous No.12591680]

>>12591665
Why are you so angry anon. Why do you hate me so much? What about me makes you seethe so much? Can you explain to me, in detail, why you hate faggots and think that faggots want slavery and death for humanity?

[Anonymous No.12591796]

>>12591117
I wish I didn't have to deal with people like you, and your wishful thinking and endless narcissistic rage at the suggestion that human wants shouldn't be catered to heedlessly

[Anonymous No.12591801]

>>12591588
Psychiatry has shifted to self-reporting as not just a method, but also as a scientific criterion. In fact, somebody can have every aspect of a mental illness but it doesn't count unless THEY THEMSELVES feel that it is an issue for them.
Meanwhile, since the 70s, tranny mags have had tips on play-acting and whining to convince a doctor to prescribe their desired treatments.
What's the obvious end result of that mindset interfacing with modern psychiatry?

[Anonymous No.12591814]

>>12591680
Not him, but:
Faggots beget other faggots. It is a known fact that LGBT identification is more common in those exposed to members of the subculture.
LGBT do not form productive relationships and don't produce offspring. They embody the mentality of a pure pleasure-seeking lifestyle, which is currently strangling our society and driving birthrates into the ground, but is just generally a problem because people living any such lifestyle are deadweight consumer robots and the lowest dregs of humanity. Even if they're not responsible for that directly, the majority of the culture practically revolves around it.
LGBT are dysfunctional with extreme rates of mental illness, and it really is not excusable to have even attempted suicide rates greater than the fucking Jews in the camps.
Most LGBT are straight to some extent, and could choose not to live the lifestyle. They're just coomer faggots caving into their most basic impulses. I know a pair of twins who took opposite routes on that road, the tranny lost everything and drank himself to death within a few years, meanwhile the normal one has a nice family.

[Anonymous No.12591917]

>>12578632

What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.12592347]

>>12591814
>muh hedonism
>muh reproduction
>muh gay is a choice
>muh gays are just coomer
Its always the same, tired old arguments.

[Anonymous No.12592384]

>>12592347
The LGBT movement is a decadent and identit-focused movement that feeds itself on capitalist structures. They are no Alan Turing or Frederik the Second.

[Anonymous No.12592471]

>>12592384
Sure, the mordern lgbt movement can be kind of grating at times, especially the woke leftist types.