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/sci/ - Science & Math

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12447241 No.12447241 [Reply] [Original]

At first I thought my dream was to work somewhere like SpaceX. Working on groundbreaking shit. But then I realized I don't want to be some engineer cog in a multibillion dollar corporation that no one will remember, I want to be someone like Elon Musk. The man does more in a single week than most do in a lifetime.
So how does one become the next Elon /sci/? How do you find the next big idea and convince investors to give you money?

>> No.12447244

Start the next PayPal. Sell it for billions. Then you can do whatever you want.

>> No.12447249

>>12447244
>Start the next PayPal
That's the question though, how? How do you know that your idea is good?

>> No.12447253

>>12447249
You ultimately don't. You just have to do something you believe in and hope it works.

>> No.12447254

>>12447241
You cannot become great by trying to be great. You become great by wanting to do something with such a conviction that you become great in the process.

>> No.12447268

Admiring this autistic child is peak reddit.

>> No.12447274

>>12447241
If you can produce returns significantly higher than interest rates you can just grow ultrafast by borrowing money. Without loans you can still grow your seed capital but you wont make billions fast.
Banks love to loan money to good companies so it isn't difficult if you have a good return on your operations.
The whole thing is basically funded by cuck savers that are willing to give their capital for 0.2% interest rates.

>> No.12447480

>>12447241
Start by being born into wealth

>> No.12447488

>>12447241
you have chosen the wrong reason not to work in aerospace. It’s literally the worst shit. More people get burned out doing aerospace shit then any other field.

>> No.12447496

>>12447249
You don't. That's why economists and businessfags talk about risk all the time.

>> No.12447601

>>12447249
Pick something and do it. If it succeeds then you are the next Elon Musk. If it fails you wagecuck for him.

>> No.12447640

>>12447241
A big portion of it is he lies things into reality. That said, you will not get a miraculous idea by sitting on your ass and thinking very hard. Aĺl easy problems have already been solved. You have to learn much about a field and maybe then you will eventually notice a market gap. So what I'm saying is go and wagecuck for a few years for Elon or whoever until you acquire some skills. Also you won't be the next Elon Musk just some random enterpreneur. That role is already taken. He's strategy is basically to lie big enough so everyone believes it.

>> No.12447653

>>12447640
>He's strategy is basically to lie big enough so everyone believes it
So what you're saying is that he DIDN'T actually manage to build rockets that can land themselves? The videos we've all seen are fabrications?

>> No.12447704

>>12447653
of course he didnt. he payed people to do that. he comes ups with some random shit, or steals an idea from somewhere khm* vaccum tube transport khm* than pores his money into it. than if its even remotely possible, then people he works to death and doesent let unionize do it for him. rockets worked (kind of, they cant be relaunched withut changing some parts that melt), compressed gass flying cars, "hiperloop" and a thousand other shit ideas didnt. hes not a genious. hes a face. like stev jobs but dumber.

>> No.12447707

>>12447653
He lies things into reality. What I'm saying is that he himself has not much to do with the actual design, all he does is he convinces engineers to wagecuck for him 12 hours a day and convinces investors. Everyone believes the lie cause it's big enough, whereas if he would havw just started a shoe company he wouldn't have as cheap workforce and wouldn't get all that investor money.

>> No.12447716
File: 1.55 MB, 3348x1929, index.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12447716

whats the big secret new thing they're working on?

>> No.12447721

>>12447704
>>12447707
Retards, you don't pour in billions of your own money into something you have no idea about. He knew enough about engineering to figure out that reusable rockets were possible. And yeah he got other engineers to design it for him, so what?

>> No.12447736
File: 7 KB, 194x259, F354E626-7D20-451B-BC35-C0DF4F5C5149.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12447736

>>12447721
What is this? People throw billions of dollars at shit they know nothing about all the time. Las Vegas is one example. The stock market is another.

Pic rel is you.

>> No.12447841

>>12447704
>>12447707

this is nigger-iq thinking. You have no idea how a company works. Do you honestly expect one man in a shed to build rockets by himself? It takes massive teams of people to do anything significant. Leading people towards an extremely difficult vision and succeeding warrants alot of praise. Titans of business like Musk and Bezos deserve their success because you could never do 0.0001% of what they have managed to pull off. Faggot.

>> No.12447853

Start telling everyone that you work a hundred hours a week, after a while people will start believing you.

>> No.12447983

>>12447721
no, he lucked into it. he also thought you could make compressed air flying cars. which is absolutely retarded, and anyone with the slightest bit of engineering experience would have known that. hyperloop is also retarded. most of what he says is retarded. he is a bored rich person with slightly better tast in what to invest in, than others.

>> No.12447993
File: 63 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12447993

>> No.12447996

>>12447841
sure faggot. lick more boot. its not researchers, scientist who deserve the credit for there inventions, its the retard who inherited a shitton of money, and sayed i want a rocket that can be reused. fuck you musk fanboy.

>> No.12447999

>>12447721
We would not know his name if daddy didn't own an apartheid emerald mine

>> No.12448010

>>12447996
Those scientists and researchers are not leaders nor do they ever want to be. You really don't understand the concept of a leader. Your fag argument could be said for anyone in history.
> it wasn't alexander the great that conquered the world, it was his under payed soldiers!
Stupid fucking retard

>> No.12448113

>>12447241
Find a way to make cryptocurrency viable for the average normalfag and get a big corporation to agree to use it
Good luck

>> No.12448124

>>12447241
Listen to Bruce Lee: "Do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it." Look at all of the most respected people in history. You know what made them so successful? They had their own vision and followed it instead of following someone else's vision in order to grapple onto their success.

Don't try to be Elon Musk. You will never be Elon Musk. Nobody will ever be Elon Musk but Elon Musk. Nobody will ever be anything but themselves. You will never be anything but you. So be you

>> No.12448218

>>12447241
>So how does one become the next Elon /sci/?
Get the learning you need to be valuable. Invent something with a startup and make your first million. Use that million to invest into bigger things.

>How do you find the next big idea and convince investors to give you money?
If you do it for investors YOU DON'T END UP OWNING THE END PRODUCT. You need family or friends to plunk down some cash for you. If you don't have those sort of social connections, sucks to be you.

The next big idea is going to be smartphones you can doc into a real monitor, keyboard, mouse, VR set, external video-card, hard drive.

It's going to be discreet always on cameras with face tracking and identification.

It's automating white-collar jobs with AI.

>> No.12448407

>>12448113
>Find a way to make cryptocurrency viable for the average normalfag
Cryptocurrency will be banned the moment it gets too popular. The main reason crime has been going down in most of the world is money laundering laws. Criminals don't do crime if they can't spend their illegal money. Crypto would shit all over that. Bitcoin and every other kind of non-government sponsored coin is a meme.

>> No.12449562

>>12448218
>smartphones you can doc into a real monitor
What would be the point?

>> No.12449800

>>12447241
Honestly, will to power. If you look at these billionaires, one thing you realize very quickly is that they are all very unconventional characters. For every thing they do exceptionally well they have 1 or 2 things they are absolutely abhorrent at.
Take Carmack for example. He is probably the most legendary video game programmer, but he is an absolute cuck when it comes to his wife bossing him around.
Warren Buffett is the best investor alive, but he was incapable of cooking for himself when his wife left him.
Elon Musk knows how to manage his customer base better than anyone else, but he is marries to a monster ans gave his child an absolute meme name.
If you want a shot at being an elon musk type, just start doing lots of projects and iterating your vision until you hit on something. Even if it wont work, you will be hired by someone on the spot because entrepreneurship is the rarest skill you can get

>> No.12449835

>>12447241
First, you need to prove that you're actually capable of doing large projects. Elon did that in the beginning with Zip2 and some other stuff. This is no easy feat.
Second, you need to have a huge fundament of science knowledge. He studied physics, I think that's a good way to start. You'll be able to read engineering books then. It might be worthwhile to get a master in some engineering discipline, preferably mechanical or aerospace, they are the most general.
Third, you need to be able to see through idiots and get good people hyped for your ideas. This is tough as you need charisma and a leadership aura, or people won't be loyal.
Forth, luck.

>> No.12449858

>>12447241
Billionaires are created with new technology. In the 70s and 80s it was the personal computer with people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Then it was the World Wide Web with people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos

The next big thing to create billionaires may be 3d printing. If you don't catch the next wave in time you'll get nowhere and nothing.

>> No.12449961

>>12449858
Nah, it'll likely be machine learning, quantum computing and neural chips. 3D-printing isn't ripe yet, it'll come after that.

>> No.12450209

>>12447241
dude if I had a blank check to build shit I bet I could build some pretty cool shit, ngl

>> No.12451896

>>12450209
You could have all the money in the world and you wouldn't come up with shit.

>> No.12451909

>>12447249
high iq

>> No.12452643

Cringe

>> No.12452878

>>12447241
you need

high IQ
high g intelligence
mid-low conscientiousness
mid-low agreableness
INTJ or INTP profile or similar
willingness to work 90+ hours / week
lots of books / pdf's and possibly at least a master's in some STEM field

>> No.12452882

>>12449800
based and Nietzsche pilled

>> No.12452959

>>12447241
Be born to rich technocrat parents who made their money in the South African mineral businesses. Use their money to bootstrap your activities until something sticks, like paypal. Then use your money and connections to court private and state investors.

>> No.12453130
File: 13 KB, 225x225, hurr durr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12453130

Every damned time some fucking retard wanders in
>hurrfff /sci/ I wanna be Elon Moosk me smart, I fucking love science

You won't come anywhere close to Musk in your life, you will probably never even be a mid-tier engineer because everything you do is just to build up your ego and you happened to have latched onto STEM because it is now seen as elitist in society.

In 50 years you will remember this post and you will realize I was right and you were too stupid to even be a middling corporate drone.

>> No.12453139

>>12447707
He was the chief engineer of space x initially because he couldn't find anyone to work for him, much of the design was done by him. People only wanted to work for space x after it was successful, everyone thought it was a joke before.

>> No.12453174

>>12447704
>He doesn't let people unionize
As an engineer working in factories, unions are shit. You are basically instilling a culture of the least effort and valuing "seniority" over competence. They kill innovation and should banned and then be radically redesigned.

>> No.12453269

>>12452959
>2020
>still trying to perpetuate this lie

>> No.12453293

>>12452878
>high conscientiousness
>low agreableness
Given his personality.

And the ability to learn new things, almost photographic memory (aka ability to draw blueprinting of car/rocket engine/etc from your mind with minute details), ability to seek out new source of knowledge when lacking, and ability to question old assumptions.

>> No.12453327

>>12447241
>I want to be someone like Elon Musk.
you want to be a salesman?
work in tech. every developer between the ages of 22 and 30 have this dream of building either a great system or creating some worthless app to make it big. you can get it out of your system and you have a better chance than most to have your idea take off.

>> No.12453357

>>12447241
you can try to make ideas happen as a poorfag and get absolutely no where and end up doing a bunch of boring work yourself or you can become an engineer or computer scientist with top tier skills and make 120k starting working for people like musk.

>> No.12453371
File: 439 KB, 1554x1412, Amazon_heat_map.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12453371

>>12453174
>They kill innovation and should banned and then be radically redesigned
Ok, Mr Rosengoldbergstein

>> No.12453387

>>12453130
But anon Musk isn't an engineer or scientist. Being an engineer makes you more accomplished than some snake oil salesman welfare queen.

>> No.12453514

>>12453371
>Warehouse and packaging drones DESERVE to be paid 25$/h.
If you want a good salary maybe try choosing a job that requires you to actually use your brain.

>> No.12453577

>>12447241
You sound like you was about to be one of those followers in Jonestown.

>> No.12453654

>>12447999
Trips of truth.
If you were not born into money, chances of you becoming a hot shot tech magnate are close to zero.

>> No.12453661

>>12453174
>They kill innovation
Any employer that says this about unions should unironically be hung.

>> No.12453686

>>12453661
For them innovation means hiring a new guy each time they have to avoid responsibility.

>> No.12453855
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12453855

>>12447241
He's just a figurehead. You would unironically achieve more for humanity as a cog in the machine than as a leech like Musk. Sure, you will be forgotten and your contribution will be attributed to Musk, but that's an inherent flaw in our current system.

>> No.12453873

>>12447249
>>12447244
Forget it man. You will never become rich. People like you are as delusional as trannies. Elon was born into wealth and took the path of least resistance all his life. He was extraordinarily lucky and was at the right time and right place. You could have the best idea in the world and you wouldn't become rich.

>> No.12453888

>>12447241
Fuck off brainlet.
Either get good or get dead

>> No.12453933

>>12453661
Employees being legally forbidden of doing anything else than the limited list of tasks included in their contract is bad for innovation.
Being unable to fire a terrible and lazy employee because of seniority is bad for innovation.
Rigid operation processes caused by workers not wanting to learn new procedures is bad for innovation.
Unions opposing automation that would lead to job cuts is bad for innovation.

I'm all for high safety standards and good working conditions, but unions are cancer.

>> No.12453970

>>12453387
Yet he has produced more tangible things for humanity's advancement than drumpf

>> No.12454293

>>12451896
i would still fuck your mom though

>> No.12454313

>>12447254
what if I try to be great by doing that?

>> No.12455159

>>12448010
>Your fag argument could be said for anyone in history.

That's his point. You want to be Alexander, Caesar or Elon. Not the retard lying dead in a field for his leader.

>> No.12455369

>>12447241
>The man does more in a single week than most do in a lifetime.
Where does this retarded talking point come from? I never hear this said of anyone else and I hear this repeated often.

>> No.12455565

>>12447241
First, have sex

>> No.12457532

>>12455369
Because he's revolutionizing multiple industries.

>> No.12457674

>>12453873
>$20k is wealth.

>> No.12457737

>>12455369
What have you done your entire life that's worth mentioning

>> No.12457793

>>12447241
>So how does one become the next Elon

Step 1: Be born into a family that made aa fortune in emerald mining in apartheid South Africa
Step 2: Start a shitty tech company
Step 3: Use family connections to merge your company with Peter Theil's company
Step 4: IPO, make millions
Step 5: Use money to start a bunch of basically fraudulent pump and dumps that mostly function to privatize taxpayer money

>> No.12458224

>>12447241
Elon stole my drone booster Idea.

pretty sure he's a spy for china.

>> No.12459372

>>12457793
>Step 1: Be born into a family that made aa fortune in emerald mining in apartheid South Africa
Imagine still perpetuating that lie.
>Step 3: Use family connections to merge your company with Peter Theil's company
That's not even remotely true.
Is that your way to cope with the fact you'll never do anything worthwhile?

>> No.12459442

>>12447249
>That's the question though, how? How do you know that your idea is good?

What do you KNOW people want?

Create a good sex robot !

>> No.12459507

>>12448010
>>12447721
>>12447841
There needs to be a maximum income level so these fucks can’t fuck over mankind for their giant ponzi dick coping schemes to stay rich

>> No.12459550

Elon made a digital version of the phone book while most of Americas workforce were still more comfortable with typewriters than computers. It was a tiny freak window for actually inspired useful people to rise to the top and its gone now. I’m just glad Elons making the most of it.

>> No.12459594

>>12459372
>Imagine still perpetuating that lie.
Musk hasn’t denied it for someone who is very active on Twitter.

>> No.12459753

Having a general understanding of physics is useful of course. But, more importantly, you need to learn how to create and maintain a business. From concept to marketing.

>> No.12459824

>>12459753
>you need to learn how to create and maintain a business
How do you learn this? An MBA?

>> No.12459879

>>12453514
You are literal human filth. Noone WANTS to be a worker drone. Whether they came to that position through bad luck or bad decisions doesnt matter. You are making the world a much better place by giving enough money for people to live a life with dignity and hopefully some comfort.

>> No.12460055

>>12459879
>You are making the world a much better place by giving enough money for people to live a life with dignity and hopefully some comfort
No one is advocating for letting minimum wage people starve, but their income should only be enough to support a single person living frugally.

>> No.12460105

>>12460055
But all the CEO’s should still be making millions of dollars amirite?

>> No.12460112

>>12459594
>someone not actively denying a baseless accusation means he's guilty
Sure thing, bud.
His father owned a small share of that mining company. It was worth a few tnen thousands. All of this is public domain.

>> No.12460123

>>12447241
>So how does one become the next Elon /sci/?
By posting on /sci/

>> No.12460163

>>12460105
Difference is that the CEOs don't go crying to the government to force employers to pay them a certain amount.

>> No.12460256

>>12460112
>His father owned a small share of that mining company.
That may be the truth.But it’s strange that a celebrity billionaire wouldn’t deny accusations that his family became wealthy because he’s dad owned an emerald mine in Apartheid South Africa and used child labor.

>> No.12460262

>>12460163
No, they only go crying for tax breaks. Although it’s usually less crying and more sending lobbyists to buy the politicians out.

>> No.12460291

>>12460262
taxation is theft and should be kept to the minimum necessary to run the country

>> No.12460326

>>12447249
Remember, for every successful project there were dozens or hundreds or maybe even thousands of similar ones that never took off. What is so special about Facebook or Youtube? Also remember, the idea by itself is nothing. It is not worth shit. It is a long path before it becomes a thing. So you already need to be rich, or know someone rich, to get it going and spread the word so the masses would learn about it. So you need connections and most of all luck. And also forget about making a revolutionary discovery that would change the world and you would get the Nobel prize. The truth about it is nobody wins it on their own. It is always about a large group of people working together and their boss getting the credit, and also about politics, connections, and clout, and luck of course.

>> No.12460491

>>12447241
I'm curious to what he will do at neuralink. It has the potential to be something amazing but also terrifying.

>> No.12460562

>>12460291
Damn those government interventionists!

Why can’t I have a slave labor force of 5 year olds to clean chimneys for pennies on the dollar these days!?
All they want to do is keep us from earning the money we deserve!

>> No.12460614

>>12447841
>Do you honestly expect one man in a shed to build rockets by himself
to be completely fair that is practically what tom mueller did during the opening years of spacex

>> No.12460677

>>12447249
Good question but i can at least give you some elements :

1) the idea has high added value. If you're just implementing an already existing system with minuscule incremental improvement, people will stick with the older, more robust options. Bring something meaningful to the table. Social networks did exist before Facebook, but facebook rebuilt the whole interface from A to Z and and rethought the concept of online contacts (friends). This kind of stuff also reassures the investors that you're not a lazy fuck that is just running after the latest viral trend with poor framework and botched products.

2) the idea is compatible with the zeitgeist. Most start ups fail because of timing. Bill gates failed completely with PDAs, just to see Jobs succeed a few years later with the same product, minus the pen.

3) something that actually WORKS. So many enteprises fail because it just cant deliver the specs they promised everyone they would bring.

If anything, those three points can actually help you figure out if your idea is bad right off the bat.

>> No.12460720

>>12460326
Spoken like someone who never had any entrepreneurial experience ever.

It doesnt matter if you know or dont know people if your idea isn't good to boot. Sure, knowing who handles the investment money is a plus, but it's only a plus for getting into a pitch meeting. Good luck making a solid pitch in front of venture capital experts who probably know the target market better than you ever will when your idea sucks cock.

And if you can pull it off ? Congrats, you're the next Juicero.

>> No.12460875

>>12460720

>It doesnt matter if you know or dont know people if your idea isn't good to boot
Duh obviously. Thats not what I meant. I am talking about the opposite. Of course your idea has to be good to begin with. I mean thats not enough

>> No.12461546

>>12460256
No, it's really not. You quickly learn not to bother with bullshit when you've got better things to do. It's a waste of time.

>> No.12461559

>>12447241
while muh hard work is good, men like him are 99.9% circumstance

>> No.12461572

>>12447241
>So how does one become the next Elon /sci/? How do you find the next big idea and convince investors to give you money?
You got it wrong, pal. You NEED to be the investor first, and once you have enough money to make engine monkeys do your shit, you market whatever garbage you ordered to scam OTHER investors.

>> No.12463145

>>12461572
You can't start your own finally from garage? College? Etc?

Musk got his riches from college work that he did. By first building and selling computers and converting his rented house to house parties for weekend where he charged entrance fees. His college friends and him made x.com which later became PayPal.

>> No.12463486
File: 431 KB, 640x850, 28CF7D87-7693-4BD9-98EF-2D371B07DDC4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12463486

>>12461546
>No, it's really not. You quickly learn not to bother with bullshit when you've got better things to do. It's a waste of time.
Lmao doesn’t deny dad owned a child labor emerald mine in Apartheid South Africa but has time to post this.

>> No.12463491

>>12463486
Triggers you that much?

>> No.12463495
File: 18 KB, 477x268, 1607398640293.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12463495

>>12447241
Is your name Bruce Wane?

>> No.12463513

>>12463491
>Triggers you that much?
Thought he had ‘better things to do with his time’?

>> No.12463518

>>12463486
>nooooo it's not enough that ownership of the mine is public and we can look up if his dad owned it
>nooooo reading a fucking Wikipedia article means nothing
>you HAVE to specifically deny the exact allegations I made or you're GUILTY

>> No.12463524

>>12463486
Having some fun isn't the same as denying baseless accusations. You're aware the burden of proof is on the accuser, right?
Other Anons aren't me.

>> No.12463538

>>12449800
This.

>> No.12463572

>>12463513
Posting jokes is better than listening to socialist nonsense

>> No.12464545

>>12463572
>anything that makes me think is socialism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kltRoCPFPKM

>> No.12466068

>>12463486
Wait Elon is redpilled? Then how come reddit loves him?

>> No.12466156
File: 2.46 MB, 664x377, 1586726138395.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12466156

>>12453174
as a previous member of a union in a factory, i second this. every place has old timers that know their shit and get the job done but in my experience, something like 75% of the employees are lazy fucks that do exactly enough to avoid getting fired and use any excuse to have to call someone in to check on shit so they can afk in real life instead of working. on the flip side, the union rep is usually a fucking plant that basically works for the factory instead of the union so really - it's a wash.

>> No.12466890

>>12466068
Reddit has hated him for the last 3-4 years. Only place that likes Elon is SpaceX/Tesla subreddit. Outside of that, he's literally hitler, worse than Trump, slave owner, etc.

>> No.12466945

>>12453873
t. doomer

>> No.12467762

>>12453387
>anon Musk isn't an engineer or scientist
He's actually both, the dude is crazy educated.

>> No.12467784

>>12447241
Work on your speaking and presentation skills. If you are on /sci/ or working on your mathematics skills you are already a step in the wrong direction, reddit would be a better choice.

>> No.12469603

>>12447249
Make a name for yourself as a respectable professional, then come up with an idea and make it as palatable and simple as possible. Use your reputation and experience to seek out and recruit others who share your vision, and go from there

>> No.12470857

>>12466945
Nobody on this animefag website would become even close to Elon Musk, you're a bunch of delusionals.

>> No.12470965

>>12448407
>Cryptocurrency will be banned
But it can't be banned. Governments cant do shit to regulate it, you know that. The best they can do is tell central banks to stop trading it, and make it "illegal" to advertise a bitcoin wallet or something. Of course it's extremely easy for people to get around regulation, bitcoin was, in fact, designed exactly for that purpose.

>> No.12471815
File: 1.41 MB, 2563x3348, N.Tesla[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12471815

wrong tesla bro
also
intelligence =/= profit
pic related

>> No.12472075

>>12470965
>The best they can do is tell central banks to stop trading it, and make it "illegal" to advertise a bitcoin wallet or something
This will prevent legitimate businesses from using it, which will limit its use to drug transactions. Of course retards who don't even understand what crypto is will still invest in the hope that it'll go higher.

>> No.12474023

>>12471815
Tesla was a genius in certain subjects and a complete retard in others. Dude should have taken a class in basic economics.

>> No.12474341
File: 35 KB, 480x610, Nikola Tesla.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12474341

>>12471815

>> No.12474383

>>12447241
Do you know how to code? Do you have a big-picture view on money? Do you have an eye for finding and fixing problems? If all those are yes, then you have all you need to become a billionaire. Find and industry that lags behind on technology, develop a solution that revolutionized the industry, and start selling it. You might fail the first couple of times you do it, but eventually you'll make something that catches on, and you're in business, literally.

>> No.12475507

>>12474383
>Do you know how to code
lol no one with higher level intelligence wastes their time on coding
they just hire some pajeet code monkey for 2 bucks an hour to code it for them