/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.12403715]

is race real

[Anonymous No.12403729]

>>12403715
It's a concept that has a real presence in the minds of a lot of people, with very real consequences for society, but the biological basis for racialism is shaky at best and outright wrong grifting at worst.

[Anonymous No.12403753]

>>12403729
>No biological basis for racialism
Imagine being in such utter denial. The fact that Greeks are kinda similar to Turks are kinda similar to Arabs are kinda similar to Berbers are kinda similar to Nubians are kinda similar to West Africans does not mean Greeks are kinda similar to West Africans.

There are real and significant biological differences between Europeans and Africans. Yes, there are arbitrary groupings out there like using "White" instead of West/North European, but there are real racial differences between groups. We can all agree that Africans are humans. That doesn't mean that the genetic variation between Africans and Europeans is roughly the same as the genetic variation within Africans.

[Anonymous No.12403766]

>>12403715
Race is a social construct of course. Because of the continuum of traits humanity has you can always deny it has any basis outside of just being a social construct.
Things get murky when you start showing people who believe race has no biological basis who can donate organs to whom.

[Anonymous No.12403782]

>>12403753
Except that's factually wrong. Africa as a continent has higher genetic variation in the native population than the rest of the world combined: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947357/

[Anonymous No.12403785]

darwins finches

[Anonymous No.12403827]

>>12403753
Greeks are kinda similar to West Africans

[Anonymous No.12403837]

>>12403782
I don't mean quantitatively, I mean qualitatively.

[Anonymous No.12403850]

>>12403837
The qualities that can be proven to differ between races are all driven by a very small set of genes that exclusively affect those qualities. Melanin content, hair texture, facial structure, eye color, all a very small number of genes that don't correlate to any other abilities in people, and tell a very small part of the story of any individual's genetic composition.

[Anonymous No.12403864]

>>12403850
N

[Anonymous No.12403873]

>>12403850
shut yo bitch ass up poindexter. it'd take thousands of years for an estonian community that emigrated to gambia to develop the same features as a gambian community. what you can observe matters much more than some stupid ass gene shit retard

[Anonymous No.12403875]

>>12403850
>don't correlate with any other abilities in people
This simply isn't true. Africans are prone to completely different diseases than whites, that's not even touching on intellectual and planning capacity, all of which are provable variations between African populations and European populations.

[Anonymous No.12403882]

>>12403875
Ah, there we go, this is a race and IQ thread now, bye pseuds.

[Anonymous No.12403906]

>>12403882
>"There's no real variation between races, so races aren't real"
>Actually, there's a lot of evidence for important qualitative differences, including measured planning capacity and predisposition to heart diseases and sickle cell anemia.
>"R-racist!"
If you're unwilling to accept real evidence of variation in races, why the fuck did you even come here. If races are qualitatively different they're going to be qualitatively different in many ways. Some of those are going to behavioral or cognitive. What the fuck did you expect? Did you seriously think my only reasoning that West Africans and Europeans were different populations was "They haz da dark skeen!" and nothing else?

[Anonymous No.12403914]

>>12403715
is it a question?

[Anonymous No.12403923]

>>12403906
Doesn't matter, can tell already that the dumbest Africans are leagues smarter than you

[Anonymous No.12403938]

>>12403923
N

[Anonymous No.12404453]

>>12403715
this is a very low effort thread

[Anonymous No.12405396]

>>12403782
The fact that you'd say this implies that you don't even have the slightest clue about cluster analysis.

Different clusters having larger variation clearly doesn't negate the fact that clusters exist. Look up PCA genetic variation ethnicity or something and it will essentially give you 1 2d slice of a very high dimensional space.

Now, it happens that in the majority of "views" africans, Europeans etc. completely overlap, but in the views in which there *is* variation and differences there is no denying one can cluster these differences roughly along racial lines - or geographic ancestry.

What do these differences mean? I don't fucking know and it's very unlikely they have little real world impact.

Seeing you lefty smoothbrainers jump hoops is pathetic. Its why you're so bad at what you do, everyone sees right through your inhonest faggotry before you even begin to make normative claims. Be more honest.

[Anonymous No.12405409]

>>12403715
Even if science is wrong and it is, racists are still losers.

[Anonymous No.12405435]

>>12403715

of course it's real, all people with functioning brains understand this. Unfortunately there are retards on all sides of the political spectrum and when you add together all of the most important issues of our time, the number of people who have the right idea about all of them is vanishingly small.

[Anonymous No.12405640]

>>12403782
Isn't that evidence for better categorisation of African populations, rather than removal of categories altogether

[Anonymous No.12406677]

>>12403729
dogs and cats are the same thing too.

[Anonymous No.12406693]

Are Jews the problem?

[Anonymous No.12406699]

it is real cosmetically, but it doesn't make you superior/inferior morally/physiologically

[Anonymous No.12406717]

>>12405409

[Anonymous No.12406720]

>>12403923
The dumbest african would gladly rape you and your entire family if he could and not even look back.

[Anonymous No.12406724]

>>12403850
>>12406699
>race is skin-deep

[Anonymous No.12406820]

>>12403715
It's really cool

[Anonymous No.12407078]

>>12403882
Yes it is. Go cry about it.

[Anonymous No.12407080]

>>12403923
Average European 6 yo child is smarter than dumbest Africans.

[Anonymous No.12407082]

>>12406693
hmmm

[Anonymous No.12407136]

>>12405396
>PCA
PCA isolates the components with the highest variance regardless of how meaningful those components are. You'd get distinct clusters using PCA for any arbitrary grouping of genetic data you actual smoothbrain.

[Anonymous No.12407146]

>>12403715
the real problem is “define race”

[Anonymous No.12407220]

>>12403715
>Formula 1 is a race
>Nascar is a race
>NHRA drag is a race
>Indy car is a race
>Rally is a race
>Steeplechase is a race
>Le Mans is a race

Race is very real.

[Anonymous No.12407229]

>>12407220
Hilarious. Upvoted.

[Anonymous No.12407404]

>>12403923
Man, I'm glad I don't know any people like you. I wonder if that's how it's like to live in somewhere like Canada or Germany.

[Anonymous No.12407554]

>>12405396
This is the issue with you people: You cherry-pick some graphs that, to an average high-school dropout might have the appearance of supporting your agenda, and then you STRIP any context, methodology and interpretation from it, picking out the incredibly small minority of arguments that support your point of view from the VAST ocean of data that says your claims are entirely unsubstantiated
And then you have the gall
The arrogance
The absolute insipid headassery
To insist that those who point out the clear as day flaws in your methodology, the shit that would get high schoolers a failing grade if they tried anything like it
THOSE are the ones jumping trough hoops

You deserve nothing but contempt for your "work". You have the integrity of a pile of flour.

[Anonymous No.12407576]

I will add that they lower the value of "scientific consensus" when they use it to spread lies like in this page
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism#Scientific_consensus:_Races_aren.27t_useful

We now have genetic evidence that the black population is more at risk from covid 19. This single fact disprove what they claim to be "scientific consensus"
I've read other things about this "rationalwiki" which clearly indicates that it is not a valid source of information and propagates fake news. As usual when leftists give themselves an attribute, such as "rational" in this case, it means they do not have this attribute.

[Anonymous No.12407588]

Honestly I used to believe strongly in climate change given that the evidence presented was convincing. But after seeing so much lies propagate by leftist I am starting to heavily doubt. At this point I would need to comb through the data myself for a few months and study their climate model in detail to verify that they did not fudge with it. Because this field seems riddled with leftists and leftists cannot be trusted to not lie.

[Anonymous No.12407591]

>>12407576
You genuinely don't understand the concepts you are trying to apply here.

OF COURSE there are some correlations between genetics and the low-resolution categorization model of "race." That does not make it a model with good predictive power when you do biological work. It does not mean you have understood the methodology behind the statistics you are citing. It absolutely is not any reason to listen to whatever shithole website you are getting your "proof" from, as they are dishonest actors with a clear political agenda who deliberately misinform you about what demographic correlations imply.

[Anonymous No.12407596]

>>12407554
Can you be more specific? What is the context we stripped the data of? And where is that majority of arguments according to which our claims are unsubstantiated?

[Anonymous No.12407601]

>>12407591
Yes I agree that the website I got my proof from is a shithole filled with politically biased people who live in their own people. You can see for yourself https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7198426/

Why do leftists pollute every community they go to.

[Anonymous No.12407603]

>>12407576
Rational Wiki are well known liars. Here is a good response to their race denial hogwash
https://archive.is/A5CsE

[Anonymous No.12407608]

>>12407596
>What is the context we stripped the data of?
Definitions of heritability, meaning of principial components, sources, basic textbook material that all the researchers producing these papers take as a given when writing them, motivations behind producing the data, conclusions drawn from the data, applicability of the data, sample sizes unless they "look" big, basic statistical theory, the entire field of sociology, epigenetics, in-utero effects, epistemological criticism of IQ, the entire historical development of the biological understanding of race, the historical development of the social understanding of race that you seek to ground in biology, and often basic facts about the scientific method, such as how single papers are not in and of themselves evidence.

>Where is the majority of arguments according to which our claims are unsubstantiated
The massive literature of racialist scientists floundering about failing to find any methodically honest, biologically useful definition of race when taking the full breadth of human variation into account.

[Anonymous No.12407622]

>>12407608
>Definitions of heritability, meaning of principial components, sources, basic textbook material that all the researchers producing these papers take as a given when writing them, motivations behind producing the data, conclusions drawn from the data, applicability of the data, sample sizes unless they "look" big, basic statistical theory, the entire field of sociology, epigenetics, in-utero effects, epistemological criticism of IQ, the entire historical development of the biological understanding of race, the historical development of the social understanding of race that you seek to ground in biology, and often basic facts about the scientific method, such as how single papers are not in and of themselves evidence.
Can you give me some example of race realists stripping data of context like this?

>The massive literature of racialist scientists floundering about failing to find any methodically honest, biologically useful definition of race when taking the full breadth of human variation into account.
This doesn't answer my question. Where are those arguments that debunk racer realists?

[Anonymous No.12407640]

>>12407603
Thanks for the link. An actual rationalist and not a cargo cult rationalist is good for a change.

[Anonymous No.12407643]

>>12407622
Do your own homework, you are the ones making the claim that the political construct of race has any place in biology.

[Anonymous No.12407648]

>>12403729
>but the biological basis for racialism is shaky at best
I honestly don't understand how you retards say this with a straight face.

[Anonymous No.12407652]

>>12407643
>Do your own homework
"it's not my job to educate you chud" lol
Every time a shitlib has no answer for something they will say this.

> you are the ones making the claim that the political construct of race has any place in biology.
Yes and you are making claims that race realists strip data of context and that there are supposedly tons of arguments than debunk us.

[Anonymous No.12407654]

>>12407648
By noting that race is a historically propagandistic construct that was forced on biologists, not something discovered by biological methodology, and that the propaganda websites that still preach racialism have methodology worse than shit.

[Anonymous No.12407663]

>>12407654
>race is a historically propagandistic construct that was forced on biologists,
Who started propagating it and why?
Also citation would be useful. Not just proclaiming that "race was invented to justify colonialism" or something and leaving it at that.

[Anonymous No.12407665]

>>12407654
>By noting that race is a historically propagandistic construct that was forced on biologists
Other way around, dipshit. Political ideas of race are rooted in visible biological differences. Evil racist politicians didn't wiggle their fingers and make it so blacks can't get organ transplants from whites just to make you seethe. You're mentally ill and delusional.

[Anonymous No.12407667]

>>12403753
>Berbers are kinda similar to Nubians are kinda similar to West Africans does not mean Greeks are kinda similar to West Africans.
Nah. Literally every PC analysis shows there's a large rift genetically between North Africans and sub-saharans. Any resemblance we see now is due to backmixing. i.e. sub saharan africans share no genetic continuity with the rest of the world.

[Anonymous No.12407671]

>>12403715
Define it scientifically. Define say
>White
>Black
Biologically.

In general terms.. yes with a but
In specificity... no with some caveats.

[Anonymous No.12407672]

Viewing reality as the Foucault Chomsky debate has been a disaster for the human race.
Social structure or innate human nature? It's both.
>does race exist
Yes.
>is race a social construct
Yes. Partially.

[Anonymous No.12407676]

>>12407665
This reminds of this hilarious pic.
Remember, these are the "I fucking love science" crowd

[Anonymous No.12407692]

>>12403873
>some stupid ass gene shit retard

Definitely from burger land.
I await you turning down all scientific medical advancements that have arisen from the same evidence and processes that would rightly perhaps, label your assertion as
>retarded

Also, do you believe a transwoman is a female? I mean the fuck have genes got to with it
>got to do with it
>got to do with it
>Ohhhhh Noooo

[Anonymous No.12407699]

>>12405396
Explain India in terms of your critique.

[Anonymous No.12407704]

>>12407554
I personally love the IQ cherry picking graphs.
Reminder: Lynn literally used datatsets from special needs schools to extrapolate the general IQ of a country,

Almost as if one judged the entire IQ of America based on /pol/

[Anonymous No.12407709]

Anyone who thinks that a species can make any substantial enough changes to its behaviors that it's unrecognizable from another of its species within 50k years has a very poor understanding of evolution.

Humans everywhere are basically the same, anyone who says any different is trying to indoctrinate you into bullshit.

[Anonymous No.12407710]

>>12403729
>evolution is real
>but it didn't affect humans

[Anonymous No.12407713]

>>12407591
Based Saini

[Anonymous No.12407714]

>>12407704
Reminder: Lynn's national IQ data have 0.87 correlation with PISA scores

[Anonymous No.12407717]

>>12407663
>>12407665
http://pages.ucsd.edu/~jmoore/courses/anth42web/CartmillRaceConcept1998.pdf

You are free to refute this paper, and as I am not a dipshit relying on the "Throw five hundred bullshit arguments at the wall and hope it takes 5 minutes to refute each one so nobody will bother" tactic, I'll just provide this one.

[Anonymous No.12407719]

>>12407714
Are you literally defending his data accumulation?

[Anonymous No.12407720]

>>12407671
White and black are the most coarse racial classification which is done by humans using their main sensory organs, their eyes. By proxy this classification correlates to ancestral origin. Humans who want a more accurate idea of ancestry can use facial features to differentiates, for example, between people with Indian ancestry from those with African ancestry.

[Anonymous No.12407721]

>>12407713
Speaking of which
https://quillette.com/2019/06/05/superior-the-return-of-race-science-a-review/

[Anonymous No.12407723]

>>12407709
>Humans everywhere are basically the same
This is not true in terms of appearance, of biology, of culture, or of brain function.

[Anonymous No.12407728]

>>12407719
I am defending the data he got. Not the way he got each specific sample you want to focus on.

[Anonymous No.12407732]

>>12407710
>never implied it didn't and you're proving my point cause you DON'T UNDERSTAND IT

[Anonymous No.12407736]

>>12407710
>I do not understand the timescale of evolutionary processes

[Anonymous No.12407745]

>>12407676
oh god that's hysterical

[Anonymous No.12407746]

>>12403753
>>12406677
>>12407648
>>12407710
go be a racist somewhere else

[Anonymous No.12407748]

>>12403715
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijCSyuQm010

[Anonymous No.12407750]

>>12407746
Race isn't real dumbass.

[Anonymous No.12407752]

>>12407728
>I am defending the data he got. Not the way he got each specific sample you want to focus on.

Oh dear.

[Anonymous No.12407755]

>>12407723
biology includes appearance and brain function, thereby proving the lack of yours. But the biology says brain function is basically the same across all humans, the biggest factor is environmental i.e access to quality education early in life

memetic evolution would influence evolution as a kind of artificial conditioning, but even that wouldn't create enough of a difference in that short amount of time

[Anonymous No.12407764]

>>12407750
perfect.
you are now officially retarded af.

[Anonymous No.12407770]

>>12407720
> Indian ancestry

What do Indian's look alike according to your metric?
What do Pakistani's look like?

Pro-Tip: Travel more

[Anonymous No.12407774]

>>12407672
I am a race realist and i think race is 100% a social construct. Yhe thing is that absokutely everything human believe in is a social construct. In fact shitlibs use social construct as a stand in for "concept" because they have almost a biological need to make themselves appear smarter than they are. Now the decision is : should we use the "race" concept? This decision was already done by shitlibs who use race to discriminate against Asians and whites but not ahkenazi jews for some reason despite them beingbeing overrepresented. So the people who use race are leftists, and the people who use a shitty racial classification are also leftists. Leftists are using an unscientific racialism to kill people in the street, spread covid in mass protest and gain political power for themselves. Now that this is out of the way what we need is more clear : better racial categorization for health and understanding society, and stop the leftist racialism.

[Anonymous No.12407782]

>>12407136
Learn to fucking read

[Anonymous No.12407783]

>>12407721
A very interesting and welcome alternative critique of her book.

I await the reclassification of the Irish as being an inferior scientifically defined race than the English.

[Anonymous No.12407786]

>>12403715
Yes but its below subespecies

[Anonymous No.12407789]

>>>12407717
Molnar (1992:23) notes that all such definitions stress theconcept of races as geographical entities: "Primarily, thedivisions are based on the sharing of a common territory orspace and [assume] that geography played some role in es-tablishing boundaries until recent times."But this is not how the concept of race is in fact em-ployed in either common usage or the scientific literature.Geography has little to do with the race concept in its ac-tual application. Studies of "racial" differences often drawtheir data from so-called Black, White, and Asian indi-viduals bom in the same geographical region. For exam-ple, much of the published literature on supposed racial
differences in "intelligence" is based on data sampledfrom native-born North Americans identified as repre-sentatives of different races.If North American "Blacks," "Whites," 'Asian-Ameri-cans," "Amerindians," and so on are racially different,then (since all these people inhabit the same geographicalregion) races are not geographically distinct.

That races are geographically distinct means they evolved in different environments and usually on different continents. It doesn't mean they can't be in the same country when IQ tests are taken. This is pretty stupid misconception on his part.
Either way, did you even read it? What from that paper do you think debunks race?

[Anonymous No.12407790]

>>12407608
No one listen to this fucking moron. He's listing differences without distinction to try and sound smart

[Anonymous No.12407791]

>>12407770
I see you are a troll. Anyway I don't need to travel because I meet people from all over the world everyday in my country.

[Anonymous No.12407795]

>>12407782
The rest of the post is just anon there giving a grade schooler interpretation of how PCA represents data sets, without defending the assertion that PCA plots actually show anything useful to determine the degree of differentiation between clusters in terms of a sample that isn't specifically transformed to amplify that differentiation as much as possible.

Take a statistics class before defending pseuds being pseuds.

[Anonymous No.12407798]

>>12407791
>I see you are a troll

Couldn't answer. So
>muh trolll

Pro-Tip: Both the individuals in that picture are
>Indian
but obviously cognitive dissonance is embedded within you.

Do you believe Pakistani's are a race under your metric? The Irish?

[Anonymous No.12407799]

Race is a medically and scientifically useful classification. Even crude self described "races" like white or black have efficacy in predicting risk for a myriad of diseases, from brain cancer to gout. In fact, no scientist in their right mind would ever discard the definition of race, in fact, we have the problem that not making fine enough distinctions between people can interfere with studies. Race is pretty much an unspoken truth in science, nobody talks about it, or else their career will get absolutely raped by the politically correct crowd.

Race exists and it's not just skin color.

[Anonymous No.12407802]

>>12407791
> Anyway I don't need to travel
Definitely burger land anon

>>12407799
Then what is race?

[Anonymous No.12407805]

>>12407755
>But the biology says brain function is basically the same across all humans, the biggest factor is environmental i.e access to quality education early in life
Oh shit so Africans in western nations with public schooling are all intelligent and successful and not violent leeches on the system, right?

[Anonymous No.12407806]

>>12407790
>If I just make unsubstantiated claims maybe they won't listen to the guy BTFOing my entire cult

[Anonymous No.12407811]

>>12407608
> when taking the full breadth of human variation into account.

Pathetically stupid. I quite literally make fun of you in the start of my last reply about not understanding basic cluster analysis but you're so unbelievably retarded you didn't even realise.

Also, you fucking chimp, i never claimed that these clusters impacted phenotypic traits in any meaningful way, only that where differences do exist, one way they can be grouped is by race.

[Anonymous No.12407813]

>mating with literal monkeys has no impact on genetics

[Anonymous No.12407815]

>>12407608
/sci/ beats /pol/

[Anonymous No.12407818]

>>12407806
>he actually thinks that post btfoed anything

[Anonymous No.12407820]

If race isn't real, explain why I naturally hate niggers, spics, pakis, poles, frogs, krauts.

Luv me fellow countrymen, simple as

>you were brought up a racist
Nope

[Anonymous No.12407821]

>>12407805
>Public schooling in western nations
>Equal
Based retard, the US allocates public school funding in a ridiculously unequal way

[Anonymous No.12407825]

>>12407813

[Anonymous No.12407826]

>>12407815
this, civic nationalism /pol/tards btfo

[Anonymous No.12407827]

>>12403729
https://archive.is/Tcgsn
https://archive.is/MZlot
https://archive.is/NCnfj

[Anonymous No.12407828]

>>12407821
Yeah, it allocates more funding toward black majority areas.

[Anonymous No.12407832]

>>12407820
This is the right amount of wit
kek

>>12407828
Which is syphoned off by corruption
Look at the textbooks

[Anonymous No.12407836]

>>12407826
Purely socioeconomic factors

[Anonymous No.12407838]

>>12407826
Are you Ian Austin's son?

[Anonymous No.12407845]

>>12407832
>Which is syphoned off by corruption
>Look at the textbooks
No, it's squandered because niggers destroy everything they come into contact with. A school district buys laptops for all of them and they're in pieces within a month.
>t. went to school in the ghetto and got the fuck out thanks to a magnet program only for the nigger school to go down for repairs and for all of them to funnel into my fucking magnet school and destroy everything all over again

[Anonymous No.12407847]

>>12403729
It's the extrapolation of subtle scientific points to give a flawed basis of
>But muh darkies bad whities good

[Anonymous No.12407854]

>>12407845
Hence ignoring socio-economic factors.

Why do African migrant children outperform muh whites?

[Anonymous No.12407857]

>>12407802
In general there are something like 35 observable geographic population clusters on the planet, but it's only really useful scientifically to make distinctions between certain grouping of those clusters. So for instance, the genetic distance between the Swiss people and English people is almost nil, practically nothing. Race is essentially the "optimal" clumping, where each cluster within the race share genes not found in other populations. So many many ethnicity dependent SNPs are correlated together, and the combined effect results in what the lay might conceive of as "race".

[Anonymous No.12407858]

>>12407854
>Why do African migrant children outperform muh whites?

[Anonymous No.12407860]

>>12407845
>t. went to school in the ghetto and got the fuck out thanks to a magnet program only for the nigger school to go down for repairs and for all of them to funnel into my fucking magnet school and destroy everything all over again

Good for you. Did you even analyse the destruction of those neighborhoods on economic and political grounds?

[Anonymous No.12407861]

>>12407821
I guess that's why nigger schools get more funding per pupil than white schools

[Anonymous No.12407864]

>>12407820
this

[Anonymous No.12407866]

>>12407854
>Why do African migrant children outperform muh whites?
They don't? Joggers are even worse than muslims.

[Anonymous No.12407867]

Ethnicity is real but race isn't. Race is a broad classification manipulated by social context.

[Anonymous No.12407870]

>>12407860
I analyzed that everything was nice and peaceful and clean until niggers showed up and took a fat shit all over it, as they do everywhere. Consider how much destruction your ideology has caused.

[Anonymous No.12407872]

>>12407854
They muh don't

[Anonymous No.12407874]

>>12407857
A fair summation of a good point

To what end do these clusters and combined as best as can be defined, inform other expressions?
In what areas is this concept useful?

[Anonymous No.12407875]

>>12407867

[Anonymous No.12407880]

>>12407875
seethe and cope

[Anonymous No.12407882]

>>12407858
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.12407883]

Culture is more important, but it's also genetic.

[Anonymous No.12407884]

>>12407827
>https://archive.is/Tcgsn
>Near constant repetition of how difficult it is to find genetic markers for population ancestry
>https://archive.is/MZlot
>Acknowledge in the discussion that predictive power drops outside of european-descent populations
This is useless for comparing populations you actual retard.
>https://archive.is/NCnfj
>Oh boy we sure went and did exactly what the above paper said you can't do

This is literally right out of the playbook, just toss shit out there and hope that racists are too stupid and/or biased to notice that the data doesn't support your ideas.

[Anonymous No.12407885]

>>12407867
Peak midwit post. You don't even understand why what you said makes no sense, you just know you heard it somewhere and it sounds correct enough.

[Anonymous No.12407886]

>>12407867
Race only gets manipulated due to mutts like kamala harris calling themselves "black" or whatever, when they so obviously aren't.

[Anonymous No.12407888]

>>12407885
seethe and cope

[Anonymous No.12407889]

>>12407880
Cope about what? The genius thought that ethnicity is real while race isn't? Even though every argument there is against race could be applied to ethnicity too?
I will do my best.

[Anonymous No.12407900]

>>12407889
No argument.

[Anonymous No.12407901]

>>12407867
based

>>12407870
My ideology?

>I analyzed that everything was nice and peaceful and clean until niggers showed up and took a fat shit all over it,
I bet you love what Leopold did.

Also, go and ask any Libyans about what your beloved white masters did

[Anonymous No.12407906]

>>12407901
>Also, go and ask any Libyans about what your beloved white masters did
>(((white))) masters

[Anonymous No.12407909]

>>12407886
What is she?

[Anonymous No.12407911]

>>12407906
>Le all bad white are jews meme

[Anonymous No.12407916]

>>12403715
Obviously yes.
Cue left-wing morons yelling, "but teh nazis and white southerners were assholes about it"

[Anonymous No.12407918]

Why would a nobel prize winner do this if he had no good reason for it?

[Anonymous No.12407920]

>>12407901
>I bet you love what Leopold did.
What? Stopped property crimes?

[Anonymous No.12407924]

>>12407906
Are you saying you're genetically inferior to
(((them)))
Deal with it then ;)

Incidentally, the idea that (((they))) have shackled
>muh whiteman
is hilarious when muh white masters still control the foreign, military, economic and political policies of the world.
See:
>The Crown
>City of London
>US Intel services

It's a big prosperous white club and you're not invited as you will be deemed "lower class"

[Anonymous No.12407926]

>>12407918
Chuds who don't believe in settled science deserve to be excommunicated.

[Anonymous No.12407930]

>>12407911
kek
As if Ronald Regan and Dick Cheyney were innocent victims of muh joos

[Anonymous No.12407933]

>>12407874
Medicine mainly. Diseases like brain cancer have extremely high prevalence among whites, while it's almost nonexistent among any other group. Diabetes among asians, ect. Most "race realist" ideas you see in science are spillover from biomedical research, and not due to any concentrated effort to push them.

[Anonymous No.12407935]

>>12407926
he is american

[Anonymous No.12407938]

>>12407924
>Are you saying you're genetically inferior to
>(((them)))
I'm saying I'm genetically different from Jews. I don't think they're inferior, and I don't even think blacks are inferior. I think blacks are different and belong in a society suited to their genes and culture, just as whites deserve a society that isn't dragged down and plagued with violence for trying to coddle to people who have no desire or capacity to contribute.

[Anonymous No.12407946]

>>12407920
This is a fantastic new take on the Congo.
I await your reasoned support for the removal of Lumumba too
I bet you think Mau Mau concentration camps were well deserved.

Go one, we could be here all thread listing the spheres of power that govern economies.

[Anonymous No.12407952]

>>12407938
Define black genes
White genes
Jewish genes

Remember: The Irish have and are often accused of inhabiting the same traits you decry. Indeed they are a different race to many

[Anonymous No.12407955]

>>12407946
What new take? Tell me property crime didn't go down under Leopold.

[Anonymous No.12407960]

>>12407946
bantumonkeys deserve every bad thing possible happening to them

[Anonymous No.12407961]

>>12407933
>and not due to any concentrated effort to push them.

Surely the extrapolation and misuse of subtle scientific nuances to push some of the more hilarious generalized views in this thread, shows that there is much scope to push a simplified and scientifically detrimental view of race?

[Anonymous No.12407964]

>>12407952
>Define black genes
Genetic trends in black races
>White genes
Genetic trends in white races
>Jewish genes
Genetic trends in the Jewish people
>Remember: The Irish have and are often accused of inhabiting the same traits you decry. Indeed they are a different race to many
Correct, the Irish are a race, as are all the many other European ethnicities.

[Anonymous No.12407969]

>>12407955
Well, if you discount the entire theft of an entire country and region and the crimes of those committing mass murder and torture, then yes one could say that property crime went down.
kek

But seriously, Leopold was a monster.

[Anonymous No.12407972]

>>12407960
I await you consoling yourself with this insane logic when you are held in chinese concentration camps over the next century.

[Anonymous No.12407987]

>>12407909
You need to read better. She is a mutt. The midwit meme is real dear god

[Anonymous No.12407999]

>>12407987
Not him. Cope and seethe.

[Anonymous No.12408004]

>>12407964
Which genetic trends?

>the Irish are a race, as are all the many other European ethnicities.
The same was said of them and is still sniggered in elite master white race circles.
What is the difference between race and ethnicity? to you?

[Anonymous No.12408006]

>>12407987
>She is a mutt.
ergo
>I can't understand genetics so will use /pol/ tier logic

[Anonymous No.12408010]

>>12407961
No, not really. Medical research does pretty much the minimum amount of what it needs to. At minimum, a rudimentary and simplified understanding of human race is absolutely necessary to perform medical research. Theoretically science could divide humans into ALL of the something like 30 clusters, but that would produce rather niche medical treatments with a limited number of customers. They want to sell medicines to as many people as possible.

[Anonymous No.12408014]

>>12403715
it is adaptations to different enviroments

[Anonymous No.12408023]

>>12408006
not even trying

[Anonymous No.12408026]

>>12403715
I'm afraid so

[Anonymous No.12408068]

>>12407721
https://twitter.com/smaceachern2/status/1136255091416162304?s=20

[Anonymous No.12408077]

>>12408010
but which definition of race scientifically or rudimentary or simplified, is logically valid?

How then do divergent mixed "race," people earn a classification under these models?
Which models if not the nuanced clusters you cite?

[Anonymous No.12408101]

>>12408068
???
I assume you think this is some sort of deathblow to race realism again.
It doesn't validate traditional race concepts because American niggers are racial hybrids with 25% European admixture on average. While traditional race concepts classified only full blooded Africans. And the reason why they didn't mention it is because it wasn't relevant. They only cited that paper to show human races can be identified by their skulls. Not whether it fits traditional race concepts.

[Anonymous No.12408114]

>>12407608
>buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword
>do I sound smart yet?
Reddit Midwit: The Post

[Anonymous No.12408121]

>>12407736
You're right, you don't. If I kill everyone over 1.6m in a population, I will create exclusively genetic manlets in just one generation.

[Anonymous No.12408136]

>>12408077
>but which definition of race scientifically or rudimentary or simplified, is logically valid?
All of them, at least all of the ones used in modern science. There's more than one way to chop something into pieces, it just matters what you're using the pieces for and what you want to get out of them. These are categories created out of modern population genetics, it's not some nazi pseudoscience. Also self identified race almost perfectly correlates with actual race.

>How then do divergent mixed "race," people earn a classification under these models?
Mixed race? Depends on the study, some will make distinctions between admixture, most won't, it'll just say "admixed American" or something like that.

[Anonymous No.12408137]

>>12408101
>They only cited that paper to show human races can be identified by their skulls.

Are you being cheeky?
U WOT M8?

>In this study, multivariate analyses of craniometric data support Sauer's hypothesis that there are morphological differences between American whites and blacks. We also confirm significant geographic patterning in human variation but also find differences among groups within continents. As a result, if biological races are defined by uniqueness, then there are a very large number of biological races that can be defined, contradicting the classic biological race concept of physical anthropology. Further, our results show that humans can be accurately classified into geographic origin using craniometrics even though there is overlap among groups

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24024571_Understanding_Race_and_Human_Variation_Why_Forensic_Anthropologists_Are_Good_at_Identifying_Race

Stop cherry picking and enjoy the buffet of knowledge

[Anonymous No.12408143]

>>12408114
>I don't understand science: the post

[Anonymous No.12408150]

>>12408136
Which ones are used in modern science beyond your cited 30+ clusters that are scientifically relevant?

It isn't solely radical liberal left that denounce science they disagree with it is often those masquerading as logicians that wish to pick data and studies to advance their own notions of racial supposed superiority to justify their own prejudices as seen in this thread.

[Anonymous No.12408157]

>>12408137
>>They only cited that paper to show human races can be identified by their skulls.
>Are you being cheeky?
>U WOT M8?
What do you not understand about it?


>>In this study, multivariate analyses of craniometric data support Sauer's hypothesis that there are morphological differences between American whites and blacks. We also confirm significant geographic patterning in human variation but also find differences among groups within continents. As a result, if biological races are defined by uniqueness, then there are a very large number of biological races that can be defined, contradicting the classic biological race concept of physical anthropology. Further, our results show that humans can be accurately classified into geographic origin using craniometrics even though there is overlap among groups
>Stop cherry picking and enjoy the buffet of knowledge
Thanks. Reading something I already said is truly enriching experience.

[Anonymous No.12408159]

>>12408114
A very reasoned critique from superior race IQ anon

[Anonymous No.12408171]

>>12408143
Come on bro. You were obviously just repeating phrases that sounded science-y enough without understanding what they mean or providing examples.

[Anonymous No.12408183]

>>12408150
black, white, asian, hispanic and MENA. Generally there aren't enough MENA people in the US to bother though.

>those masquerading as logicians that wish to pick data and studies to advance their own notions of racial supposed superiority to justify their own prejudices as seen in this thread.
Well that's a normative statement. It doesn't discount the overwhelming amount of evidence in science that race exists. We can't scrub race from science, it trickles in, there is no "one study" that proves it that we can just retract and call it quits. Denouncing white supremacists does nothing.

[Anonymous No.12408184]

>>12408137
>this pic
holy cope

[Anonymous No.12408190]

>>12408157
What don't you understand?
Race realists use these same papers to justify unconnected viewpoints of behavior.

The paper lists one classification and that too limited to America.
Beyond that, the paper cites
>Race can defined via x
>x shows differences in America between 2 groups
>This classification of race is but one possible classification and has some merit in showing geographic origins
>Don't extrapolate this into anything else.

You could have a thesis that skin colour is the best arbiter of race, but the point of the critique and fallacy of the quillette article is that there is not one workable definition of race that has enough scientific merit to warrant the political, social and economic assertions made by others that cherry pick studies to justify their own prejudices.

[Anonymous No.12408191]

>>12408184
>>12408183
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408199]

>>12407838
How are these freaks so comfortable with posting that kind of trash with their identities attached?

[Anonymous No.12408204]

>>12408183
How are these defined?
Genetic markers? Which ones?


>We can't scrub race from science, it trickles in, there is no "one study" that proves it that we can just retract and call it quits.

No one has asked for retractions.
Just definitions.

I could classify people by height.
If you use race, and it is a valid definition, then you must show how that definition is quantified

We so far ITT, have:
>Muh colour niggers whities
then
scinetifically:
>Cranial geographic
>30+ Clusters
>black, white, asian, hispanic and MENA* - not yet cited

Have another:

[Anonymous No.12408211]

>>12408143
>>12408159
>t. morons that are fooled by verbal gish gallop
>>12408171
This. Half of the phrases/words he listed don't even have any bearing on the question at hand. The rest makes no sense as a critique without specific context and/or could just as well be applied to race denial arguments.
>muh historical developments
Laughable pseud arguments

[Anonymous No.12408213]

>>12408184

[Anonymous No.12408216]

>>12408211
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408217]

>>12408184
Shitskins of all kinds suffer from inferiority complexes because they never contributed meaningfully to advancement of human civilization. It all came from northwestern Europe.

Among Indians it manifests as"we invented number zero". Among arabs it is "first civilization was in middle east" or "we invented algebra". Italians are even more pathetic because Rome contributed virtually nothing to our understanding of science so instead they opt for "dude look at these pillars, cool right?" or "look how much of Europe we conquered, it's all red, see?". Greekoids are the only ones who made at least some contributions.

Also, his pic is retarded. South European looks lighter than Eastern European despite the fact that Russians have about the same % of blond hair as Sweden.

[Anonymous No.12408222]

>>12408199
This man is now a LORD in the House of Lords.
>>12408211
>verbal gish gallop

The terms that anon used were valid. Your inability to warrant them respect says much

[Anonymous No.12408223]

>>12408204
Self identified race correlates near 1 with actual race. Even now dna testing exists, so we can use ancestry correlates.

You're just being a fag because you're backed into a corner, keep posting, it's not going to change.

[Anonymous No.12408224]

>>12408217
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408226]

>>12408204
Modern racial classifications are based on clustering algorithms run on allele frequency datasets.

How do you think 23andme and all these websites work? Voodoo magic?

Iirc, the clustering results are as follows (based on K clusters):
K=2: niggers and everybody else
K=3: niggers, abos and everybody else
K=4: niggers, abos, gooks and caucasoids
K=5: niggers, abos, gooks, injuns and caucasoids
K=6: niggers, abos, gooks, injuns, pajeets and western caucasoids
K=7: niggers, abos, gooks, injuns, pajeets, sandniggers, europeans.

[Anonymous No.12408228]

>>12408223
>>12408222
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408232]

>>12408224
This flat assed mutt doesn't deserve to be on /sci/

[Anonymous No.12408235]

>>12408217
>It all came from northwestern Europe.

Take this to /his/
You have much to learn
>That pic
Why such an arbitrary figure of 1450-1950
kek

Who's actually feeling interior rather than feasting on the array of knowledge gleaned from the breadth of mankind?

[Anonymous No.12408241]

>>12408235
>>12408232
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

Stay mad faggot.

[Anonymous No.12408244]

>>12408222
Some terms would have been valid if he provided context. Others made no sense whatsoever and were only added to make him look oh-so-knowledgeable and nuanced. Ended up backfiring though because now he just looks like a typical self-fellating reddit pseud.

[Anonymous No.12408247]

>>12408235
>>Take this to /his/
They've been seething over it already. No one has manged to refute that.

>Why such an arbitrary figure of 1450-1950
It very clearly starts at 800BCE and ends at 1950.

[Anonymous No.12408251]

>>12408247
>>12408244
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408257]

>>12408235
>Why such an arbitrary figure of 1450-1950
It's 800BC to 1950AD

[Anonymous No.12408262]

>>12408257
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408264]

>>12408247
>>12408257
>can't read his own pic
>implying 800 BC is a good start date anyway
Only a angl*id could be so dumb.

[Anonymous No.12408266]

.>12408223
>Self identified race correlates near 1 with actual race
>actual race
What did he mean by this?

>You're just being a fag because you're backed into a corner, keep posting, it's not going to change.

Is this man Asian, Indian or White?
What do you think he identifies as?

[Anonymous No.12408270]

>>12408266
The genetic measure of race, i.e. what 23andme/Ancestry tells you, that's your actual race.

[Anonymous No.12408271]

>>12408266
>>12408264
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408282]

>>12408270
https://customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/212169298-23andMe-Reference-Populations-Regions

Anon, I...

[Anonymous No.12408289]

>>12408264
It says it's from 800BC to 1950 in the bottem left corner. It's also LITERALLY in the name of the study. Who of us can't read?
Also
>moving the goal posts
Great job, now we know no evidence will satisfy your arbitrary, ideologically determined standards.

[Anonymous No.12408292]

>>12408264
Of course, everyone knows pre-800BC MED master race was splitting atom and colonizing space with their flying coliseums and these cave-dwelling angl*id snowniggers now want to cover these achievements all up.
But this angl*id oppression stops today!! SHITSKINS RISE UP!!

[Anonymous No.12408310]

>>12408289
How about you read the second page?
>Great job, now we know no evidence will satisfy your arbitrary, ideologically determined standards.
I can go even futher.
>Implying all discoveries are worth the same
>>12408292
>snowniggers
Only amerimutts use this term.

[Anonymous No.12408321]

>the world enters a world war over racial Darwinism.
>blacks in the u.s. suffered from slavery and did not have equal rights until after world war ii
>we have a million immigrants invading europe and america.
>a racial tension has recently exploded in the United States and spread to the rest of the West.
>politicians are kneeling before blacks in search of votes

>expect serious and unbiased western research on race differences

This issue is so backward, even if there were evidence of the existence of the races it would never be shown because politics would not allow it, only observation remains.

There is a country where the black people don't behave in a wild and uncivilized way ? only in Wakanda, so yes, these guys have some genetic problem that makes them more prone to savagery.

[Anonymous No.12408330]

>>12408310
>How about you read the second page?
How about you read the title? I don't care if one of the analyses focused on the timeframe you mentioned, the rest is about the timeframe that is named in the title.
>Implying all discoveries are worth the same
Hey, something we can agree on! Indeed, the more recent inventions are certainly worth more and more indicative of intelligence than ancient ones.

[Anonymous No.12408337]

>>12408330
>>12408321
>>12408292
>>12408282
Like goth shit?
Like vampires?
Like hiphop/rap
Then listen to this amazing mixtape made by ELEVEN it is fire as fuck if you don't your mother will die in her sleep tonight thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi-nstDpMFxcNWB59MsvAQrNSZVTaiR9_

[Anonymous No.12408410]

>>12403766
Setting aside the ex post facto "race is biological!!!!" argument (the people who invented the concept were basing it largely on geography and skin tone, and had absolutely no clue that genetics even existed), I just want to point out that your idea that incompatibility for tissue transplants proving something about a genetic basis for race also necessarily asserts that children can be an entirely different race than their parents despite ONLY having their parents DNA and none others. Your argument literally says people with absolutely no different genetic material can be a different race of people, which necessarily means that genetics can't have anything to do with it.
You really should have thought that one through, bud.

[Anonymous No.12408428]

Race can't possibly exist because my race has a lower IQ than whites.

[Anonymous No.12408789]

>>12408244
Oh, you want context?
>Definitions of heritability,
Race ideologues love heritability because it seems to "prove" that when two groups have different averages, they will remain that way forever. What they conveniently ignore is that heritability does not account for any outside factor influencing the trait, nor does it provide any kind of explanation of the mean. It only measures what proportion of the variance in the trait can be attributed to genetics, and does not work for between-population comparison.
>Meaning of principial components,
PCA is very easy to misrepresent because of how it scales the principal components of a data set. Very useful for geneticists, very easy to mislead with when you're preaching to people who haven't taken statistics. Principal components if the nth order are by definition the nth linearly independent degree of freedom of a data set that accounts for the nth highest portion of the variance. The fact that a PCA scatter plot looks a lot like the "races" are very different is a feature of the method more so than the DNA.
>sources,
Tracing any of this shit back to its origin is usually a migraine-inducing waste of time.
>basic textbook material that all the researchers producing these papers take as a given when writing them,
Context like how "cline" is the preferred term in serious biological circles as it has a more precise, grounded definition without political influence goes here.
(Cont.)

[Anonymous No.12408837]

>>12408789
>motivations behind producing the data, conclusions drawn from the data, applicability of the data,
If you do manage to find a paper that these absolute cultists are citing, nine times out of ten you find that the researchers were not in fact measuring race, but rather some more well defined biological trait with actual meaning. Applicability is similar, a predictive model will be presented with HUGE caveats saying "Do not apply outside this narrow range" and you will find it being applied outside that narrow range.
>sample sizes unless they "look" big,
Unless the sample is in the quintile digits or higher, racialists never say what the sample size of the study they're quoting is. Could be 400. Could be 4. They won't tell you, so unless you can find their source for them, it's 1.
>basic statistical theory,
Correlations will always be assumed to mean a direct causal relationship, the only exception is if the correlation is evidence against a racist hypothesis. Basic principles of model selection such as comparing multiple variables for predictive power also go out the window, race is always the x axis, and there are no other components to the x-axis.
>the entire field of sociology,
This especially pops up in IQ threads. Family stability and socioeconomic status have a very strong correlation with IQ, even on an individual level where children's IQs change with major changes to family circumstances. This is all ignored in the aforementioned univariate analyses, even though the sociological noise is significant enough to warrant adjusting for in EVERY case.
>epigenetics, in-utero effects,
This is another hit on the "denial of environmental effects" angle these "people" like to take. Environmental factors affect prenatal development, and even which genes are active in your body, but darkies are just inherently genetically inferior apparently, don't try to affect any environmental factors.

[Anonymous No.12408859]

>>12408837
>epistemological criticism of IQ,
This is a very common one in these discussions. While some pseuds like to act like IQ is an ultimate predictor of inherent intelligence, the evidence against this is a single Google search away at all times.
>the entire historical development of the biological understanding of race,
Which essentially goes "We are rich people in the early 1900s, we can prove race is a well defined, accurate representation of human biology!" And then a sad farting noise drawn out over the next century.
>the historical development of the social understanding of race that you seek to ground in biology,
TLDR: The race grift has had to stick around to justify society being as it is, so powerful people with a vested interest in assigning it legitimacy have been trying to for centuries.
>and often basic facts about the scientific method, such as how single papers are not in and of themselves evidence.
The "If you refute my argument based on this paper, I'll move to an equally shaky argument based on this paper" defence. There's a reason why large-scale metastudies of race are entirely located in the social sciences.

[Anonymous No.12408908]

>>12403906
>. If races are qualitatively different they're going to be qualitatively different in many ways. Some of those are going to behavioral or cognitive.
That doesn't follow at all. Factors that cause differences in skin tone, for instance, are not necessarily going to affect cognitive development or behavior.

[Anonymous No.12409039]

>>12408226
>How do you think 23andme and all these websites work? Voodoo magic?

Steady lad, I never said that.
>>12408241
Fuck off

[Anonymous No.12409044]

>>12408330
>I don't care if one of the analyses focused on the timeframe you mentioned,
kek
>the rest is about the timeframe that is named in the title.

> Indeed, the more recent inventions are certainly worth more and more indicative of intelligence than ancient ones.
Decontextualized. Wew.
Couldn't even tell the time

[Anonymous No.12409058]

>>12408837
>>12408789
>but but but but I thought this was /pol/ and no-one would debate logically with me

>>12408859
Ah yes. the IQ test.
Because Cletus wants to feel superior to an Iranian scientist and African doctor

[Anonymous No.12409109]

>>12403766
>Race is a social construct of course.
This argument applies to everything, and can be used to argue against everything in a solipsistic manner and you can dismiss it on that basis

[Anonymous No.12409225]

>>12409058
>Iranian scientist and African doctor
Christ, you people walking memes.

[Anonymous No.12409311]

>>12403715
Racism is idiotic but so are you if you think that genes don't exist...

People keep lying about science

Science did confirm that there are differences among races, that is why there are different facial features in different races... a study conducted about nose types had to be deleted because the results of the study were "racist" when they were just reporting the facts that people of different races have different noses.

The scientists who discovered DNA lost all of their trophies because they found in a study that IQ could be linked to race.

Racism is stupid, of course, but genes exist idiots. That's why some people can roll their tongue and some can't, it is literally all just genetics that's all it is. Everything is genetics and idiots are lying about the data produced by science to make it seem different than that.

[Anonymous No.12409329]

>>12403850
The amount of people mad at this comment being correct

[Anonymous No.12409351]

>>12409225
>I've never travelled and everything is a leftist marxist wank fest.

t. Mossaad

[Anonymous No.12409362]

>>12408789
>heritability
I don't know any race realist that claims genetic differences are immutable or permanent. And all them know the basic definition (proportion of variance). Even though you can't apply heritability to group differences, if the heritability within groups e.g. for IQ is .80, then that should be your starting assumption for between group heritability.
>PCA
I agree with you here.
>sources
Meaningless statement without a specific example.
>textbook
Isn't it weird how this almost exclusively applies to western researchers and how the majority of textbooks and papers in China or Russia still agree with ye old racists?
>motivations
Again a meaningless statement without example.
>sample sizes
See above
>basic statistics
See above
>sociology
Where are these univariate analyses? Whenever I see someone argue for race and IQ, they almost always take other variables like SES into account.
>epigenetics
Let me turn this around and claim that these things are always mentioned by race deniers to hand wave away possible genetic effects, without showing any evidence that races are affected by detrimental pre-natal effects at different rates that would explain observed differences.
>IQ
Literally the single strongest predictor in the social sciences and the best (albeit not "ultimate") measure of intelligence we have. This has been confirmed by gigantic meta-meta studies.
>history
Utterly irrelevant to determine the validity of a concept today.
>more history
See above
>scientific method
Literally the same can be said about your side of the argument.

[Anonymous No.12409370]

>>12408004
not him but you just got btfo, race and ethnicity are basically the same thing and basically you are fucking retarded lol

[Anonymous No.12409380]

>>12403715
>is race real
no

[Anonymous No.12409400]

>>12407146
can't believe this post went unanswered the entire time. makes you think.

[Anonymous No.12409421]

>>12409362
>if the heritability within groups e.g. for IQ is .80, then that should be your starting assumption for between group heritability.
There is no such thing as between group heritability, and no starting point to begin to define it, by definition.
>Meaningless without examples
Fuck off, everyone's seen /pol/ try this shit, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
>Where are these univariate analyses? Whenever I see someone argue for race and IQ, they almost always take other variables like SES into account.
Except when they go back to talking points about race and IQ in politics of course, where the raw univariate analysis keeps being used.
>without showing any evidence that races are affected by detrimental pre-natal effects at different rates that would explain observed differences.
There are known cases of this shit all over the place, current adults have gestated in the leaded gasoline era.
>Literally the single strongest predictor in the social sciences and the best (albeit not "ultimate") measure of intelligence we have. This has been confirmed by gigantic meta-meta studies.
And still not a measurement of any inherent capability if you look into predictors of IQ. The validity of IQ for one purpose does not validate it for every purpose.
>History is irrelevant
Not when the history is "Some shits made it up and then failed to insert it into science for a century"
>Literally the same can be said about your side of the argument.
This is just "no u"

[Anonymous No.12409427]

>>12407795
Let me ask you to learn to fucking read again. I explicitly say that we don't know how these variations manifest irl

[Anonymous No.12409438]

>>12407806
The faggot you're trying to defend told someone "do your own homework" when pushed on how those terms are relevant. Pretty obvious you're both clueless.

[Anonymous No.12409457]

>>12409438
A bare minimum of preexisting knowledge on any subject you're trying to discuss is to be expected. Don't go in a math thread and start getting uppity when people won't tell you what the little cross means.

[Anonymous No.12409468]

>>12403715
Yes and biological sex is fake

[Anonymous No.12409551]

>>12409457
Except that's not the issue you brainlet. The issue is that you can't even answer in what way these terms are being abused, and you jump straight to the "do you homework" without any justification that people are misunderstanding concepts. Actual idiot lolol

[Anonymous No.12409644]

>>12405409
science says race is real, though

[Anonymous No.12409647]

>>12407146
a set of identifiable genotypal and phenotypal traits common to one particular population and absent from another

[Anonymous No.12409668]

>>12409421
>There is no such thing as between group heritability
There's no such thing as proportion of variance explained by genetics between groups? Why? Heritability makes no sense when applied to individuals, because it can't measure any variance, but why wouldn't it make sense for groups? Just because we cannot directly determine between group heritability via twin studies doesn't mean that the concept itself doesn't exist.
>Fuck off, everyone's seen /pol/ try this shit, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Oh I didn't realize you talked about random anons. I thought you were talking about actual scientists.
>Except when they go back to talking points about race and IQ in politics of course, where the raw univariate analysis keeps being used.
Sure, I bet there are some /pol/tards doing this.
>There are known cases of this shit all over the place, current adults have gestated in the leaded gasoline era.
Whenever someone uses the lead argument, they point to specific areas that are affected badly without putting into perspective how much influence lead has on the total population. Lead exposure does not account for (inter)national racial differences in IQ.
>And still not a measurement of any inherent capability if you look into predictors of IQ. The validity of IQ for one purpose does not validate it for every purpose.
Who says that IQ alone is a measure of inherent capability? Every race realist I know (i.e. actual researchers and not some guy on 4chan) acknowledges that whatever IQ measures is a composite of environmental and biological influences.
>Not when the history is "Some shits made it up and then failed to insert it into science for a century"
That's simply not what the history of race realism is and you are disingenuous for suggesting so. I'm perfectly fine with acknowledging that there was a lot of quackery and actual racism surrounding this topic (and still is), but to dismiss its entire history like you do is just intellectually lazy.

[Anonymous No.12410512]

>>12403837
So not science any more. Got it.

[Murphs No.12410538]

>>12409668
>>12409421
The lead thing is basically the X-factor meme, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.12410555]

>>12403850
I know this is g8 b8 m8, but for the people who don't you can just google "The silver fox domestication experiment". It scientifically proves outward appearance correlates with intrinsic behaviors.

[Anonymous No.12410570]

>>12403715
Race isn't real, subspecies are real though.

[Anonymous No.12410628]

>>12409457
Nice analogy nerd.
>>12409421
Clamped

[Anonymous No.12410804]

>>12410570

[Anonymous No.12410833]

>Race is not real
>Black Lives Matter
Which is it?

[Anonymous No.12410859]

>>12409109
I don't know about that anon, but what I mean when I say that race is a social construct is that, much like nationality, there might be differences that are real (Different countries exist on different geographical positions), but at the end of the day, there's no reason why I should feel any affiliation for the people that were also born inside the same imaginary borders that I was. In the case of race, there might be some aspects that are different between them, however the sense of belonging that being part of a race gives (for examples, being proud of accomplishments of "your race" even if the person who did it is not even remotely related to you) is a social construct. Most relevant aspects of race, or at least the way of which is treated right now, are a social construct.