[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 1.25 MB, 2560x1920, Mandel_zoom_00_mandelbrot_set.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12364339 No.12364339 [Reply] [Original]

Am I small brain for failing to see the beauty in mathematics? What am I missing? What supposedly makes it beautiful?

>> No.12364351

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2XgQOyCCk

>> No.12364374

You probably just take it for granted. It's the distillation of all deducible truths (the only real truth). It wasn't always known the way it is now, we had to discover it and there's still limitless work to be done.

The symmetry, cohesiveness and simplicity are neat.

>> No.12364383

>>12364339
If you're searching for beauty like a mathematician would find in some kind of movie or tv series, then stop looking because that is not real. I personally like math because the use of deductive reasoning when solving a problem or deriving a proof is very stimulating and absorbing. I haven't found anything else like that to be honest.

>> No.12364412

>>12364383
> I personally like math because the use of deductive reasoning when solving a problem or deriving a proof is very stimulating and absorbing
So do I, but this is not an aesthetic quality.

> If you're searching for beauty like a mathematician would find in some kind of movie or tv series, then stop looking because that is not real.
Do you mean that it is not beautiful in the same was as Art, as in it does not have an aesthetic quality to it (instead being enjoyable from being stimulating)?

>>12364374
This is probably at least part of the issue. It's hard not to take these things for granted and be amazed by them when you grow up with them, but I will try to reconceptualise it as best as I can.

>> No.12364632

>>12364339
Paul erdos had something where he said beautiful math proofs were from "the book"."He had his own idiosyncratic vocabulary: although an agnostic atheist,[26][27] he spoke of "The Book", a visualization of a book in which God had written down the best and most elegant proofs for mathematical theorems.[28]" I feel like that pretty well summarizes the beauty of maths. Some arguments in math are so logically and argumentatively clever and sound that it really feels almost like youre working with something bestowed upon you by a higher power. Thats the beauty of maths compared to other fields for me. theres no biology concepts or chemistry concepts or physics concepts which are like that. so to me, its not an aesthetic beauty that makes math beautiful, its a logical soundness and relation between concepts that, at times, just fits together so well

>> No.12364657

>>12364339
unironically yes. I still remember the feeling when I realized that continuously larger square roots oscillate. ex √4 = 2 √40 = 6.324 √400 = 20 √4000 = 63.245 etc.

>> No.12364688

My Calculus III professor used to get near tears about the beauty he saw in math. It was kind of creepy. He also tried to find out which bars we hung out at after class so he could join us. He was weird.

>> No.12365222

>>12364339
What makes anything beautiful... there is something just amazing about certain things, and they are thusly beautiful. Math is beautiful, music is beautiful, etc... People are what fails to see/make beauty in things, not the beautifuk things themselves.
One thing i thought was veautiful about mathematics was how dividing a vector by its magnitude makes it a unit vector. Something is so beautiful about the power and elegance of mathematics when done correctly... If you dont understand math, it can be ugly and frightening and rigid, but when you understand it it is everything but. Thats my opinion as an undergrad though lol check back with me in four years and see if I dropped out and Im exalting the beauty of psychology.

>> No.12365330

>>12364339
mathematics itself isn't aesthetically beautiful, but certain depictions of it might be

>> No.12365333

>>12364339
Whenever i hear the word beauty i reach for my revolver

>> No.12365356

>>12364339
need more autism

>> No.12365357

>>12364339
beauty in mathematics is a meme made up by the entertainment industry and smoothbrain to appeal to coomers and women

>> No.12365365

>>12364632
This. Neesing visual appeal to finde something interesting is for pseudos.

>> No.12365367

>>12364632
lol mathematicians know nothing about logic

and maths as the language of the universe is literal popsci

>> No.12365438

>>12365367
I feel as all math concepts are just data structures and basically cousins of the trusty array. The average programmer likely doesnt make use of all the ways math allows to carry and process data, except for some famous examples like quaternions doing rotations.

>> No.12365452

>>12364632
Which god?

>> No.12366200

>>12365367
>Math as the language of the universe is literal popsci
>Guessing shit correctly with math even after experiencing it
Ok, smoothbrain, pick one

>> No.12366219

>>12364339
You need some level of understanding of the fundamentals first to know what is happening. It's like when someone says a particular game of chess is beautiful or a game of football. If you don't know the game you lack the appreciation.

So you need to understand maths well enough to know why experts in the subject say statements like [math]e^{i\pi}=-1[/math] or [math]\sum_{i=i}^{\infty}\frac{1}{n^2}=\frac{\pi^2}{6}[/math] are so mind blowing or aesthetically perfect.

>> No.12366234

>>12364339
Why ask this of you don't see it? Who cares?

>> No.12366248

>>12364339
i'm not mathematician but i find it really interesting how we can find patterns and relationships from something abstract

>> No.12366267

>>12364339
>>12364339
it's like music, basically just patterns which fit together nicely. humans like patterns which fit together nicely. the difference is that you don't need any music theory to appreciate music, you can just listen to it. there's no such play button for math. but consider this: if a musically educated person goes deaf, he can still appreciate music e.g. by reading and studying sheet music. he will recognize the patterns and if he's good enough he might even hear it in his head. when it comes to mathematics, we're all deaf. but with hard work one can "hear" it in his head similarly to the deaf person listening to music through reading sheet music.

>> No.12366366

>>12364339
Math doesn't exist. Math is just a word we use. The thing does and is we just figured out how to use it and an unguessable percentage of what the true extent actually is. I tried to use the most basic words possible but still I ended up leaning on the mathmatical concept of percentage.

For meat to be able to approximate it with 2D shapes and numeral systems like decimal is pretty impressive.

Speaking as a laymen though 0.999....=1 seems to be misunderstood to me. I think it actually shows the limitation of the decimal system without fractorials insofar as the mathmatical structure itself is biased towards singular quantities and if you perform enough transformations .999 becomes the new base 1 quantity and the actual math proofs break down.

>> No.12366408

>>12366366
>Speaking as a laymen though 0.999....=1 seems to be misunderstood to me. I think it actually shows the limitation of the decimal system without fractorials insofar as the mathmatical structure itself is biased towards singular quantities and if you perform enough transformations .999 becomes the new base 1 quantity and the actual math proofs break down.
speaking as a mathematician to a layman, what you've written doesn't make sense. on the other hand, 0.999... = 1 makes perfect sense.

>> No.12366415

>>12364632
I like the ancient proof that there are an infinite number of primes. It seems all at once too simple and yet irrefutable. I don’t know about beauty, but I do find it quite satisfying.

>> No.12366497

>>12366408
Of course, you can't help but think as a mathematician. Regardless 0.999... is nothing but theoretical and no real world equivalent exists. Pi and Tau are singular quantities but can't be translated to numerals. 3.14 etc abbreviated to any level is wrong but good enough for an approximation. The system is built to work within our limited capabilities and that means numeral based singular quantities. The idiots trying to calculate 50 billion digits of pi are wasting their time.

>> No.12366847

>>12366497
.999 is well defined, there is no ambiguity. Why does a real world equivalent matter? If we try and define real world ideas we will find nothing is truly what it seems to be. Even a point on a paper isnt really a "point" if we look closely enough

>> No.12366892

>>12364339

Math is kind of like when an artist draws a beautiful landscape and everybody is amazed that such a painting could even exist and endlessly praises the artist as if they weren't just reproducing and repackaging something that already existed

>> No.12366932

>>12364339
Mathematics is a creative study.
Computer science is a creatine study.
Physics is a schizo non creative study.
Biology is a non creative study.
If you just want to use and abuse math then you don't need to know the beauty.
But she's not just some common street whore.
she should be treated finely, with care and love.
Basically, the people that talk about the beauty of math are huge fucking weird freaks.
t. weirdo freak.

>> No.12367155

>>12364339
You have to zoom that picture to appear beautiful.

>> No.12367166

>>12366847
>.999 is well defined, there is no ambiguity.
I didn't say it wasn't well defined, but thats its a mathematical construct and there is no 0.999... of something in the universe.

>Why does a real world equivalent matter?
Is this what bait looks like here?

>Even a point on a paper isnt really a "point" if we look closely enough
Sure it is. Because that is the definition of a point. If you mean we don't know the number of matter particles thats true, but only because its dumb to count them. If you mean that every dot isn't 100% coverage vanta black thats just because of our writing medium and.

But your sort of right in a way, a dot is functionally a point because the writing system we have is built from the tools that we have and efficiency, just like 0.999.. is functionally 1 in our math system because of the tools and theorems math is built from.

>> No.12367175

>>12367166
>our writing medium and efficiency*

>> No.12367291

>>12364339
From extreme simplicity grows complexity. That's the beauty.

>> No.12367417

>>12366219
>=π26∑i=i∞1n2=π26 are so mind blowing or aesthetically perfect
To be quiet honest, pi and e are abominations

>> No.12367437

>>12367417
>pi and e are abominations

I wouldn't be surprised, if they weren't actually "real" (in the sense that they manifest in the real world), but calling them abominations goes too far.

>> No.12367452

>>12367166
do you understand what 0.999... = 1 means? it means that you have written
>I didn't say it wasn't well defined, but thats its a mathematical construct and there is no 1 of something in the universe.

>> No.12367463

>>12367417
You need to explain why they are abominations otherwise your comment is meaningless.

>> No.12367527
File: 17 KB, 474x436, 1595615166342.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12367527

>Be me
>Math and physics sophomore, double majoring
>take 8 math classes this semester
>abstract algebra, analysis in Rn, linear algebra, discrete dynamical systems, etc..
>everything I do is theorem-proof, theorem-proof, lemma-proof, corolary
>mfw I don´t find math as beautiful as I did before I got into uni
>mfw I'm worried I won't feel that way ever again

Did I just burn out my mathematical beauty receptors? I still feel interested in the theorems but I rarely feel like a statement is beutiful rather than just clever or well constructed.

>> No.12367695

>>12367527
Uni often has that effect. Blame Uni, not the subject.

>> No.12367753

>>12367452
There is nothing in the universe thats 0.999... of something. You kinda sound like a religious nut using circular logic.

If you removed removed a single atom or joule of energy from the universe it would not be 0.999... of the universe but would end somewhere.

>> No.12369047

>>12364688
He sounds like a really cool guy, I wish I knew him.Also nice dubs.

>> No.12369069

>>12367527
It's called marriage, anon

>> No.12369308

>>12367753
>There is nothing in the universe thats 0.999... of something.
>There is nothing in the universe thats 1 of something.

>> No.12369361

>>12369308
not him but you're insane bro

>> No.12369562

>>12369361
low iq post

>> No.12369589

>>12369361
>There is nothing in the universe thats 0.999... of something.
>There is nothing in the universe thats 5/5 of something.
>There is nothing in the universe thats 1/2+1/2 of something.
>There is nothing in the universe thats cos(0) of something.
>There is nothing in the universe thats 1 of something.
feel free to explain how is there any difference

>> No.12369618

>>12366366
>0.999....=1
This isn't true.

>> No.12369713

>>12369618
retard

>> No.12369886

>>12369713
>has to study 7+ years of math to think that 0.999... is 1
No, it's 0.999
why 0.999...98 isn't 0.999...?
Cause numbers be different.

>> No.12369903

>>12366219
If you think that this is beautiful you are a retard.

>> No.12370173

>>12364632
Based Erdős Pál. Great hungarian mathematicians/scientists like him, Neumann, Teller and others (Kármán, Kálmán etc.) always make me proud of my origins.

>> No.12370540

>>12369618
does 1/3 = 0.333... then?

>> No.12370546

>>12366497
no i think you're just dumb

>> No.12370550

>>12367166
>there is no 0.999... of something in the universe
1 apple

>> No.12370559

>>12369361
do long division on 1/3

>> No.12370566

>>12369886
you can prove it with middle school algebra tho?

>> No.12370579

>>12370173
same

>> No.12370639

>>12370540
no
where 0.000... 01 be at???

>> No.12370646

>>12370566
1 - 0.000......01 = 0.9999999...

>> No.12370651

>>12370639
do long division

>> No.12370654

>>12370646
>0.000......01
define this for me please

>> No.12370656

>>12370654
smallest possible fraction of 1.

inb4 it don't work

yes it do

>> No.12370660

>>12370654

01 exists

for example let's say you're made up of number 1 and then you zoom in further of yourself you become .01 then .001 then .0001 leading to tiny fraction of 1's of you

>> No.12370666

>>12370656
assume x=/=0 is the smallest fraction of 1
let y = x/2
x/2 =/= x therefore x cannot be the smallest fraction of 1

>> No.12370675

>>12370660
that limit is 0 though if it weren't you'd get a contradiction see >>12370666

>> No.12370746

>>12364632
based and erdospilled

>> No.12370762

>>12367527
It was the exact opposite for me. Why did you find math beautiful before?

>> No.12370765

>>12370656
>smallest possible fraction of 1
Would that be equivalent to the smallest real number larger than 0?
Looks like a case of "the set of all sets that do not contain themselves" in that you'd have to recreate mathematics completely from the ground up to even attempt to make it work.

>> No.12370770

>>12364339
[math]\frac{1}{x}-\frac{1}{2x}=\frac{1}{2x}[/math]

>> No.12370861

>>12370765
yes
to be honest it takes extremely high iq to understand 1 =/= 0.999...

fact is i learnt it mostly from my intuition while playing morrowind and cs 1.6

>> No.12371457

>>12366497
>is nothing but theoretical and no real world equivalent exists
That's the fucking point of modern mathematics. If your prefer ancient mathematics better stay in bussiness my man

>> No.12373591

>>12367417
>>12369903
Euler's identity is definitely beautiful.