how the fuck does meaning work.

[Anonymous No.12123622]

now I'm not asking the philosophical question like
>hurr durr based question about life and it's meaning I thought of when I was 12 and couldn't get over durrrrrrrr
NO.
So I was thinking in my head, having a conversation with myself (no I'm not schizo, I just sometimes emulate various people that are usually vindictive or socratic in order to meditate (by which I mean the more classical definition of focusing my thoughts)). AND SUDDENLY I said
>what the fuck do I mean when I say a basic word?
Like a sentence can having meaning, and we can build that meaning in many ways.
some fucking huge ass factorial probably.
But they are all based on firstly words.
Now there is simple association. Like I point at a cat and I say "cat" and now i've categorized cat in terms of words.
I wouldn't use it outside of it's common use either, because it's usually non-sensical if I do.
I was on the cat catting to a cat about the catty cats.
Cat cat cat cat cat.
trite.
But what about an abstract word?
like responsibility? honor? promise? civility? ethical? etc.?
Do we just understand then gradually in context?
I mean it's not a physical concept I can recall upon.
So where do the meaning from words come from?
are the genetic??????????? <<<<<<<
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is it cultural?

[Anonymous No.12123629]

>>12123622
meaning is genetic.

[Anonymous No.12123633]

>>12123629
Which genes code for the words cat and honor?

[Anonymous No.12123639]

You can't think of a specific object for abstract words but you can think of a pattern of actions or reactions. A series of images should flow in your mind once you think about a word like honor.

[Anonymous No.12123646]

>>12123639
Ok but not everyone is exposed to the same experiences.
thus they absorb different images and behavio and actions and reactions.
So if someone from Bongland talks about the word honor, is it not the same word that I describe?
I mean there is no formal system I can think of that can define, describe, or create meaning.
maybe except for the brain, but I can't define, describe, or create a brain.

[Anonymous No.12123680]

>>12123646
>Ok but not everyone is exposed to the same experiences.
>thus they absorb different images and behavio and actions and reactions
yes, different people have different conceptions of abstract words, but there is a common core of the concept
so a word like honor would mean that individuals of a group have a positive opinion of a subject because he performed action that are approved by the community, now the actions in question may be different from modern day america (being a good businessman and father) and ancient japan (a stronk samurai) but the core is the same

[Anonymous No.12123693]

>>12123646
>describe, or create meaning.
you are just creating an association between a specific sound and images/patterns of images or other sensory information

[Anonymous No.12123744]

>>12123680
>so a word like honor would mean that individuals of a group have a positive opinion of a subject because he performed action that are approved by the community, now the actions in question may be different from modern day america (being a good businessman and father) and ancient japan (a stronk samurai) but the core is the same
>create a definition for a word
you realize the issue here right?
>>12123693
so that's what gives words meaning?
just the recall of its associations?

[Anonymous No.12123746]

>no I'm not schizo

[Anonymous No.12124238]

>>12123622
for some reason we have conciousness, and after conciousness apparently comes a process of assimilation between conciousness and the senses that percive the world, in this process meaning takes form... but why things have to have meaning? no one knows, a bacteria is perfectly capable to live for millions of years minding their own bussines without needing this level of conciousness and meaning that we have, why did this level of conciouness appear in the universe? no one really knows and apparently the closet you would get to an answer is God...

>but muh nanotubles...
ok then, the closest is quantum nanotubles

>41:15 after Descartes everybody separates the things of the mind from the things of the universe and the mind becomes this alien force in the universe it becomes the ghost inside the machine and nobody can explain how they're related well that's because you've lost contact with Logos because Logos is the link between the mind and the universe and the mind can apprehend order in the universe because it was created by the same God who created the universe so all these dilemmas disappear, the Logos becomes the bridge between seemingly unbridgeable realities

>1:03:00 God gave you reason (logos=logic, word, language...) and reason allows you to make judgments about this universe that are accurate and worth following because there's a logos in the universe that corresponds to the logos in your mind like a key to a lock your mind is the key that can unlock the universe because both share in Logos


https://youtu.be/c8vD5gYXYhc

[Anonymous No.12124452]

>>12123622
Don’t listen to any of these other schizos. The “meaning” of a concept is based on its relations with other concepts.

[Anonymous No.12124459]

>>12123744
>so that's what gives words meaning?
>just the recall of its associations?
Yes, i would say so.

>>create a definition for a word
Yes, there is a universal set of circumstances that lead human being to have common life experiences all around the world and thus create sound associations with those happenings. The is some variation but there are common pattern. You can think of them as archetypes.

[Clerk Anon !!6qMt6lRV7FM No.12124698]

>>12123622
This is /lit/

[Anonymous No.12124719]

>>12123622
>Like I point at a cat and I say "cat" and now i've categorized cat in terms of words.
Like I point at a yellow cat and I say "yellow cat" and now i've categorized yellow cat in terms of words.
Like I point at a civilized cat and I say "civilized cat" and now i've categorized civilized cat in terms of words.

[Anonymous No.12124731]

>>12124452
so a concept is described by it's relations to other concepts?
like what?
>>12124459
>Yes, i would say so.
so what are the associations exactly?
how do we organize and associate the right ones?
>archetypes
so language is a formal system?
>>12124698
no it's not retard

[Anonymous No.12125079]

>>12124731
>so what are the associations exactly?
They have emerged as a tool of communication among animals. To stimuly X you have sound or behaviour reaction Y others notice it and react.
>how do we organize and associate the right ones?
You mean why do we create the right sound associations with the right images, because we practice trial and error with members of our group.
>so language is a formal system?
i used that word to mean common patterns emergin among humans due to similar life circumstances.

[Anonymous No.12125124]

>>12125079
Are the patterned mathematical in nature?

[Anonymous No.12125170]

>>12123622
Look up Wittgenstein. The keywords you are looking for is Philosophy of Language.

[Anonymous No.12125204]

>>12125170
But I want to know the science.
there's nothing known in philosophy.

[Anonymous No.12125226]

>>12123622
>>12123622
>I just sometimes emulate various people that are usually vindictive or socratic in order to meditate (by which I mean the more classical definition of focusing my thoughts)

Non-incels call this daydreaming

>But what about an abstract word?
>like responsibility? honor? promise? civility? ethical? etc.?
>Do we just understand then gradually in context?

It comes down to objects and relationships. A cat is a cat because you were told it was labelled as a cat and you were corrected when you misidentified it.

You learned a cat was envious of a dog when you heard somebody else call it envious and observed the cat acting up as a consequence of your dog receiving the attention.You observed the interaction between the person interacting with the dog, the cat interacting with the dog and the cat interacting with the person and then labelled that interaction as envy.

[Anonymous No.12125236]

>>12125204
Those are just words. Philosophy of Language is very science adjacent. It utilizes experiments, so it’s basically science.

[None !!bdXR9KYyWHC No.12125283]

>>12123622
OP, you're talking about semantic satiation. Whenever you overload a given point of focus and try to 'squeeze blood from a stone' the fallout is obviously stuff like your questions.

[Anonymous No.12125326]

>>12125236
well is it science or not?
>>12125226
>Non-incels call this daydreaming
what does that make me?
because I'm not dreaming. it's very intentional.
>>12125226
why do I feel a different emotional response to being envious than I do to being lustful?
>>12125283
well that doesn't mean it's wrong.
that's just pointing out blindness to blindness.

[None !!bdXR9KYyWHC No.12125336]

>>12125326
It is specifically a disassociative state. If you're asking about hte utility of a basic word then the answer is 'to summon attention towards a given thing'.

[Anonymous No.12127093]

the people that respond "its just the relationship of objects to other objects" do not understand the problem.
>>12125204
>But I want to know the science.
>there's nothing known in philosophy.

they both intersect, you could just live by with science as a tool for the description of the physical world and that's it nothing more than that, a pure materislistic world ("just calculate and shut the f up") but when you ask why the universe is what it is or why do we have "meaning" then you are askings questions that pertain to philosophy, traditionally for science "meaning" is not really their subject BUT in modern times physicist are involved in the issue of "meaning" and when you talk about meaning you talk about conciousness... both disciplines intersect

one of the most sophisticated philosophers is Kant, he even went as far as deducing that space and time do not exist and are a creation of the conciousness and not a real "thing" of the universe, thats how strange concoiusness can be, but we still do not know what is the mechanism and even this >>12124238 becomes a legitimate part of the converstaion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnzn9TMmYr8

if conciousness and meaning were so simple we souldn't have so much physicist talking about this.

[Anonymous No.12127120]

>>12123680
>>so a word like honor would mean
that the guy is a spooked retard

[Anonymous No.12127141]

Why don't you think stuff through a bit more before you make a thread about it? This is all beyond stupid. Why would the meaning of abstracts have to be genetically coded just cause they don't have any direct physical representation? Language and the interpretation of words is memetic, it's a cultural heritage. Words have different meanings depending on context. A woman can be a cat; sexy, lithe, bitchy. Catty can describe the behavior of this woman. Cat calling. Try harder next time.