/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.12096401]

>hur dur antivaxxers are antiscience conspiracy theorists
>I LUV SCIENCE
I would say we warned you and we told you so but telling stupid people I told you so is a lesson in futility. If they could listen and learn they wouldn't be stupid to begin with

[Anonymous No.12096413]

>>12096401
Apparently they used an active virus. Why would that even be necessary?

[Anonymous No.12096415]

>>12096413
you tell me anon, I mean that's the question
https://www.bitchute.com/video/MObYekAcHie6/

[Anonymous No.12096419]

>>12096401
Umm I thought the UN was part of the globohomo that wants to enslave mankind? Why are they revealing their evil plan to the public then?

[Anonymous No.12096430]

>>12096419
If you get caught red handed what else are you gonna do?

https://www.bitchute.com/video/w6fXUIpvuiiA/

[Anonymous No.12097100]

>>12096401
Listen to what exactly?

[Anonymous No.12097182]

So they had a bad batch so all vaccines bad and you shouldn’t get them? Good logic op now kill yourself

[Anonymous No.12097187]

>>12097182
>bad batch
you don't understand anything about how vaccines work do you retarded motherfucker? Don't bother answering everyone who isn't stupid af already knows

[Anonymous No.12097188]

>>12096401
Being for vaccinations in general is not the same thing as endorsing every particular vaccination that comes out. We know vaccinations can be dangerous if the technique used to make them and implement them does not kill the viruses thoroughly enough.

Furthermore, "anti-vaxxers" are not usually talking about these types of hazards (which are already known and beyond debating, but the solutions are usually already known as well, so it isn't an issue).

[Anonymous No.12097194]

>>12097188
literally no one has ever been antivaccine you asshole, you are literally taking the exact opposite position. anti-vaxxers have never been anti vaccine or anti science they have always said they are putting shit in them. The vaccine is not the problem the number of them given and the shit they are putting in them is

[Anonymous No.12097199]

>>12097188
don't sit here and act like you are taking a reasonable position now after you idiots would literally just dogpile people saying this shit was going on. fuck you retard

[Anonymous No.12097216]

>>12097187
You don’t seem to know either

[Anonymous No.12097217]

It's well known that live vaccines can cause the weakened pathogens to start spreading. It's not like it's the wild version of the disease. More like free mass vaccination using only a few vaccines.

So what's the problem? Obviously it's not an ideal situation to have a mild disease after the wild version has been killed off by the vaccines. But that would have never even happened without the vaccines so it would be stupid to whine about the weak version.

So first we kill the wild version off and then we can start to lower vaccination rates to zero. The vaccine strain is too weak to do much damage anyway and will eventually just die off. Not much of a problem.

Should we use a vaccine with a dead pathogen at some point when the wild pathogen is diminished enough? Maybe. Should we stop using live vaccines and let the diseases kill more people? Hell no.

[Anonymous No.12097232]

>>12097217
If you inject something in my body which causes harm, that's already a reason good enough to avoid it. Even if it has some other benefit (which can be discussed too).

[Anonymous No.12097240]

>>12096401
>Sudan
And the problem is?

[Anonymous No.12097299]

>>12097182
No rather that the conditions in the area weren't ideal/

[Anonymous No.12097315]

>>12096413
I think there are people out there that are secretly trying to exterminate niggers using viruses and /or vaccines. I can't argue with that. Seems like a noble cause.

[Anonymous No.12097320]

>>12097232
So like food and oxygen then? All have carcinogenic effects so you should stop ingesting both immediately.

[Anonymous No.12097341]

>>12096401
>look at my anecdote guis! I did the sciencing!!!!

[Anonymous No.12097355]

>>12096401
>UN says

Nice study

[Anonymous No.12097381]

>>12096413
"Live" viruses give a better immune response. The only reason to use it is if the region you are from has a high prevalence of the disease because it ensures you have lasting immunity. When you get the "dead" vaccine here it cannot reactivate and cause polio, but it is less effective. That being said, we don't need super high resistance to it because it isn't as common here. Essentially, you think of it as:

>Live vaccine prevents 99% of cases but may rarely reactivate actually giving you the disease. The fraction of people this happens to then just fight it off because polio only causes some paralysis in 1:1000 people.

>Dead vaccine prevents 90% of cases but cannot reactivate. This resistance after vaccination does not last as long as the live vaccine.

These numbers are made up, it's been years since I had immunology so I don't remember the exact numbers.

The issue with live vaccines is if everyone isn't getting vaccinated, you are asking for trouble because if someone actually gets the disease, they spread it to everyone who isn't getting vaccinated.

[Anonymous No.12097423]

>>12097320
Ok, I will forcefully inject food inside you then if that's your wish.

[Anonymous No.12097637]

>>12097182
Well the thing is if it helps on average. Polio seems horrific, but the disfigurement was rare even when it was widespread. If the problems caused by vaccine are more common, then it isn't worth using. The harm done by the vaccine must be very clearly less than the harm by the disease itself, otherwise it shouldn't be used.

[Anonymous No.12097643]

Bet my ass integrity it's the weird gastric related polio-like disease

[Anonymous No.12097656]

>>12096415
>>12096430
Go back to >>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.12097763]

>>12096401
GET THE VAX GOY

[Anonymous No.12097799]

>>12096401
A similar situation unfolded in the Middle East. Without even reading the article, I can tell you a large part of the problem is the quality of the vaccines these people are receiving. Think mass distributed, easily disseminated, and cheap vaccines. I mean, look at the vaccine in OP - clearly produced to be cheap. Sometimes these vaccines cause more harm than good in creating vaccine-resistant strains or, as the OP found out, actual outbreaks of the disease. Note that even for lower quality vaccines these problems are exceedingly rare. The vaccines we have in the West are of better quality and such consequences are basically unheard of. However, such amenities are not available in the third world, and we have things like this happen.

Don't bring back polio like you did measles you disgusting knuckle draggers. Polio will be the third scourge to be completely eradicated and if you white moms and orthodox jews fuck it up with your antivax bull shit I will literally kill myself.

[Anonymous No.12097804]

>>12097182
>>12097187
>>12097194
>>12097232
>>12097217
>>12097763
see >>12097799 for an explanation you clowns.

[Anonymous No.12097818]

>>12097799
>Sometimes these vaccines cause more harm than good
I should clarify this statement before a retard takes it and runs with it. Vaccines, especially the lower quality ones disseminated en masse to the third world, carry slight risks but the big picture reality is that the benefits still far outweigh the negatives (the comparison isn't even remote). The phrase risky vaccines is an oxymoron even in this context.

[Anonymous No.12097847]

>>12097381
Thanks anon, your explanation makes sense, though that still really sucks for the few who are unlucky enough to have the vaccine reactivate and end up paralyzed as a result.

>>12097799
>Think mass distributed, easily disseminated, and cheap vaccines.
I'm not anti-vaccine, but I do have some concerns for a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine because of the sheer numbers that will be required. It's easy to think some shortcuts may be taken during the manufacturing process.

[Anonymous No.12097851]

>>12097818
>vaccines are risky
>but vaccines are not risky

[Anonymous No.12097886]

>>12096413
>Why would that even be necessary?
Much cheaper
Single dose is effective
No requirement for sterile injection gear

[Anonymous No.12097971]

>>12096401
demonic bill gates and co at work. not surprised that retard atheists who have no sense of morality support him.

>something from nothing
burn in hell. fucking degenerate faggots.

[Anonymous No.12098002]

>>12097851
Vaccines are not without risk, but the probability of any real consequences of their use are appreciably minuscule, hence their widespread use. Not sure why I would have to spell that out.
>>12097847
>I'm not anti-vaccine, but I do have some concerns for a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine because of the sheer numbers that will be required. It's easy to think some shortcuts may be taken during the manufacturing process.
This is an entirely reasonable concern. In the early 2000s when the U.S. gov't rushed development of a swine flu vaccine, things went awry and some people had adverse reactions. N.b. some, still a very small number but the numbers were larger than what is seen with vaccines for similar diseases. Take solace in the fact that each negative outcome usually comes with a massive lawsuit (millions of dollars PER case), so it is in the best interests of all parties involved (including the US gov't) to provide the most effective/safe vaccine as possible.

[Anonymous No.12098245]

>>12097423
Did someone forcefully inject vaccines then?

Nope. So what was your point? You didn't have one. Dumbass.

[Anonymous No.12098254]

>>12097799
How the hell would a vaccine cause a "vaccine-resistant strain"? That doesn't make any sense.

The only way to have a vaccine-resistant strain is to have a disease mutate into a strain that is different from the one in the vaccine. Can you see the stupidity of your post now?

"Low quality vaccine" doesn't even mean anything so do elaborate.

[Anonymous No.12098539]

>>12098254
When the vaccine isn't 100% effective (no vaccine is) the disease gets selected towards strains that can avoid the vaccine.

[Anonymous No.12098543]

>>12097886
So it's not a real vaccine is the equivalent of an homeopatic cure.

Just diluted excrement.

[Anonymous No.12098578]

>>12098539
A vaccine is not an antibiotic or antiviral. Being ineffective does not make the pathogen any more resistant to the vaccine.

[Anonymous No.12098583]

>>12098578
It works the same way.

[Anonymous No.12098589]

>>12098578
Go read a book

[Anonymous No.12098632]

It's extremely easy to update vaccines to match circulating strains.

[Anonymous No.12098637]

>>12098632
Yes it is, thank you for defending what's probably medicine greatest achivement from internet trolls.

That I remind you all used to spam benis all day not to long ago

[Anonymous No.12098948]

>>12098254
>How the hell would a vaccine cause a "vaccine-resistant strain"? That doesn't make any sense.
Because you're dumb
>https://www.businessinsider.com/new-vaccine-resistant-polio-strain-2014-11
>Scientists have now discovered the truth of why the DRC epidemic was so deadly: the strain of poliovirus is resistant to vaccines. The strain contained two mutations in the protective capsid which helped the virus escape antibodies from the immune system.
Oops, look at that. Another stinky piggot on /sci/ who doesn't know fuck all what he's talking about. Look! He keeps going!
>>12098578

[Anonymous No.12099082]

>>12098948
Not them, and this is semantics, but it's a misnomer to call that behavior "vaccine resistant". The vaccine lets your body create antibodies, this virus adapted a means to bypass those antibodies' detection. It's not like an antiviral or antibiotic drug which directly kills viruses/bacteria that those bacteria can defend against, it's the virus adapting to a human immune system in general.

[Anonymous No.12099101]

>>12099082
Stop with that pointless bullshitting.

[Anonymous No.12099118]

>>12099082
>it's the virus adapting to a human immune system in general.
As if this was better and not very much worse, as it may lead to the evolution of hyper deadly strains, like with Marek's disease in chicken.

[Anonymous No.12099275]

>>12097804
>>12097799
samefag is retarded. Volunteer for the covid trials you mindless donkey, nothing of value will be lost

[Anonymous No.12099280]

>>12097971
based anon is red pilled

[Anonymous No.12099284]

>>12096413
Stop asking questions. You wouldn't get it. You're not qualified. Trust the experts.

[Anonymous No.12099285]

>>12098539
What the actual fuck? Vaccines arent antibiotics you massively retarded motherfucker, that isnt how any of this works

[Anonymous No.12099300]

>>12099275
>samefag is retarded
Cool, tell me where I'm wrong.
>oink oink!

[Anonymous No.12099307]

>>12097381
Would it be possible to modify a virus so it has very mild symptoms but the same protein envelope?
Maybe not because what's outside might determine which cells they target idk.

[Anonymous No.12099336]

>>12099307
There are many different methods of manufacturing a vaccine that depend on the virus being vaccinated against. Some methods that come to mind include using a dead virus (antigens still promote an immune response), a weakened version of the virus (either due to radiation or passing it through nonsuitable hosts that leave the virus in a weakened state), or using closely related viruses that stimulate a sufficient immune response (the most notable example of this being the case of smallpox/cowpox). Again, it completely depends on the virus being vaccinated against.

[Anonymous No.12099342]

>>12099275
>Volunteer for the covid trials
And this is how everyone with a brain knows you're fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.12099354]

>>12099307
Not him but the fevers and malaise some vaccines "give" is in reality your immune system getting activated to first react to the foreign/pathogenic threat and then generate memory against it. This is why most if not all viruses give "flu like" symptoms during the early stages of infection.
There is some literature already existing in both this and that suppressing inflammation works against the long term response to the threat.

[Anonymous No.12099358]

Looks like someone failed statistics lmao

[Anonymous No.12099374]

>>12098543
>it's not a real vaccine
It's a real vaccine. It gives real immunity.

[Anonymous No.12099389]

This thread is a perfect example of how clueless and stupid the people on this board really are. Most of you morons have no idea how a vaccine is prepared or even works. Holy fuck

[Anonymous No.12099435]

It's kind of funny that /sci/ and /lit/ get the exact same bait threads

[Anonymous No.12099460]

>>12099307
The protein envelope is what the body recognizes. As others said, the disease itself is not caused by the virus in most cases, it's the immune system wrecking shit. What you suggest are basically dead virus vaccines. Live virus vaccines are attenuated using additives like some aluminum salt stuff or something, i don't really know how they work.

[Anonymous No.12099477]

>>12099389
I wouldn't disagree, but I would think people here have more of a clue than people on any other board...you can't expect much on a general site though.

[Anonymous No.12099493]

>>12097656
>Go back to >>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.12099519]

>>12099435
I have never seen a vaccine thread on /lit/ wtf you on about

[Anonymous No.12099560]

>>12099389
Correct me if I'm wrong, but vaccine is a extremely niche topic in most biology related fields except molecular biology, biotech, medicine and immunology. Not trying to defend these retards here yet it's the same as asking a lab rat like me how to solve laminar to turbulent fluid problems.

[Anonymous No.12099897]

>>12097656
They let you use a phone while getting bottom surgery? That can't be sanitary

[Anonymous No.12099944]

>>12099493
>>12099897
Imagine unironically defending Alex Jones.

[Anonymous No.12099954]

>>12096401
ayy

[Anonymous No.12099980]

The oral polio vaccine (live attenuated virus), which was the second generation of vaccines against polio, is a live inactivated virus.

It has the benefit that it creates mucosal immunity (immunity in your guts, throat, lungs) by making type A immunoglobulins. It has the added danger of rarely causing polio which is why it's only given in countries with endemic wild type polio where the risk of getting vaccine type polio (which causes small outbreaks, pic related) is smaller than that of getting real wild type polio after vaccination with a weaker IPV (inactivated polio vaccine), which spreads pretty well.

Your kids in the developed world won't get the oral polio vaccine because their risk of polio is negligible and because the people who make vaccine schedules aren't morons as much as you'd like them to be, but they will get the injected IPV (which has about 0% chance of conversion into active virus).

Even in the developing world, as wild type polio disappears, the transition to inactivated polio vaccine is occurring https://www.who.int/immunization/diseases/poliomyelitis/endgame_objective2/en/

>tl;dr you've discovered nothing and you're stupid to think you can make conclusions from an AP article with no background education.

[Anonymous No.12100149]

>>12096413
>why would a company trying to maximise profit that has legal invincibility cut corners
I'm sure the rushed corona vaccine will be different

[Anonymous No.12100151]

>>12098245
many countries have mandatory vaccines

[Anonymous No.12100251]

>>12096401
Normally I'd wait for version 3.0 to be released before trying out a product but in this case; vaccines are NOT TESTED!! Safety my ass. Only an idiot would try the latest vaccines that don't have a track record. The Wuflu vaccine is going to modify your DNA. Hope your babies don't have defects cause the vaccine makers are legally protected.

[Anonymous No.12100330]

>>12099944
imagine being a seething discord tranny thinking anyone cares what you think about anything

[Anonymous No.12100333]

>>12099980
>>tl;dr you've discovered nothing and you're stupid to think you can make conclusions from an AP article with no background education
Nice projection faggot

[Anonymous No.12100588]

>>12100251
Do show us even one vaccine that hasn't been tested before being approved.

[Anonymous No.12100613]

>>12098948
The argument was that vaccines don't cause "vaccine-resistant strains" to appear. No one said pathogens can't mutate, requiring new vaccines.

[Anonymous No.12100928]

Basically it spreaded because even if the kid is now immune to polio their waste isn't.

[Anonymous No.12100929]

Before the covid having some truth in vaccines had at least some reason. Now believing in vaccines is ultranaive, malignant (or both).

[Anonymous No.12101162]

>>12099285
>Vaccines arent antibiotics
So what? It works the same way regardless of what causes the selective pressure. Vaccines are in fsct worse, as they push the pathogen to evolve against your immune system, which may have potentially catastrophic consequences, as you may end up with a pathogen your immune system isn't equipped to deal with (again, see Marek's disease, which became 100% deadly because of poor vaccines).
>>12100613
Antibiotic resistance also develops by new strains that are immune to the antibiotic. You are trying to make a distinction that isn't there.

[Anonymous No.12101481]

>>12101162
>The reason this is a problem for Marek’s disease is because the vaccine is “leaky.” A leaky vaccine is one that keeps a microbe from doing serious harm to its host, but doesn’t stop the disease from replicating and spreading to another individual. On the other hand, a “perfect” vaccine is one that sets up lifelong immunity that never wanes and blocks both infection and transmission.

>It’s important to note childhood vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, rubella and smallpox aren’t leaky; they are considered “perfect” vaccines. As such, they are in no way in danger of falling prey to this phenomenon.


We're in the cusp of actually having eradicated polio as we did smallpox. There's no coming back from that.

[Anonymous No.12101483]

>>12101162
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198
>The imperfect-vaccine hypothesis attracted controversy [11–14], not least because human vaccines have apparently not caused an increase in the virulence of their target pathogens. But most human vaccines are sterilizing (transmission-blocking) or not in widespread use or only recently introduced [4]. Moreover, unambiguous comparisons of strain virulence and the impact of vaccination on transmission require experimental infections in the natural host—clearly impossible for human diseases. The situation is different for veterinary infections. Here, we report experiments with Marek’s disease virus (MDV), a highly contagious oncogenic herpesvirus that costs the global poultry industry more than $US2 billion annually

[Anonymous No.12101912]

>>12100333
>be told the truth
>lash out

[Anonymous No.12103912]

>>12096401
lol, paralysis is the only way next to death to stop africans from overpopulating i see.