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/sci/ - Science & Math

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12094194 No.12094194 [Reply] [Original]

Why did it take humanity so long to figure this out?

>> No.12094200

>>12094194
Well, it wasn't really necessary for a very long time.

>> No.12094233

Orson Scott Card wrote some sci fi series where people lived on a planet with satellites above it that they didn't know about. Every time a satellite would detect someone thinking about increasing their technology, it would derail their train of thought.

On the other hand, genius is rare. Super genius is very rare. There not many super super geniuses. Even among them, how many actually work on that kind of stuff?

>> No.12094247

>>12094233
The objectively smartest person on earth probably squandered his talent on the pursuit of something completely fucking trivial

>> No.12094764

>>12094247
This.

We aren't wired to reach for higher level science/engineering, we're wired to seek pleasure and avoid pain.

Only autists, bipolars and freaks in general devote themselves to STEM.

>> No.12094867

>>12094247
Who and what?

>> No.12094876

>>12094194
It didn't. The hard part was developing calculus. What you posted is simply a consequence of the entire development of integrals and derivatives.

>> No.12094953

>>12094764
can confirm

t. autistic freak

>> No.12094956

>>12094194
Formalization the limit was not particularly easy or obvious. The rest of calculus was trivial.

>> No.12095332

Can we get 100 comments? Common people

>> No.12095366

>>12095332
I want to do whatever common people do

>> No.12095398

>>12094867
He's being rhetorical, you gibbering retard.

>> No.12095399

>>12095366
You do what I do

>> No.12095404

>>12094247
or her talent

>> No.12095403

>>12095332
1) It's "c'mon", you illiterate retard.
2) This thread doesn't deserve 100 comments.

>> No.12095406

>>12095398
You're making such a mistake

>> No.12095410

>>12095403
2) Let's go guys discuss this topic why you no game

>> No.12095414

>>12095406
Don't defend retardation with obviously fallacious "NO U" arguments, please.

>> No.12095518

>>12094194
because they aren't learning to manipule symbols you dip shit. they are inventing brand new concepts. thinking about motion itself is prior to the math symbols

anyone who doesn't understand that this is a huge intellectual challenge is a brainlet who probably thinks historical people were stupid and they are going to go back in a time machine and share their "genius" with them

>> No.12095520

>>12094194
Because math majors are drooling retards

>> No.12096948

>>12094194

A combination of the animal not being primarily wired for a certain, contemplative thought, together with the usual historical situation that securing needs takes priority over leisurely abstract thought. The most human beings could manage for about three thousand years was quadratics and thereabouts until Cardano kicked it of in the 16th century.

>>12094233

You are a crank. Be quiet.

>> No.12096975

>>12095520
math majors have a word for this, its called Projection

>> No.12097225

>>12094194
They had to invent chalk.

>> No.12097253

>>12094194
The whole idea of mathematic notation is pretty recent, and having to describe that shit with plain words hampers communication of the ideas a lot.

>> No.12097811

Can we get to 200 comments? This is an excellent topic I came up with, yall! Mash that reply button!

>> No.12097888
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12097888

>>12094247
>>12094764
based, at the end being s.oyentist is a dream pushed by impressionable midwits

>> No.12097895

>>12094194
It took humanity relatively short time in fact, compared to how long it would have taken anti-science, anti-democratic, anti-humanity republicanist apes to figure it out by themselves.

>> No.12097926

>>12097895
Why you hate apes

>> No.12097951

>>12097895
You clearly don't pay attention to anything happening in the world.

>> No.12098058

>>12097951
Yes, keep replying and we'll achieve my evil plan of 200 comments

>> No.12098067

>>12095404
Haha, good one anon

>> No.12098352

>>12094194
>>12094876
It's not a simple fact to realize , but it's not hard to show once you have defined things in the right way. Rigorously, you're trying to relate integration to a simple expression that relies only on the boundary conditions, but that takes work to realize. You see a lot of this in introductory combinatorics.

Same goes for Stokes' theorem - very trivially reasoning, very nontrivial construction

>> No.12098465

>>12094194
Translate it into English so it can be explained to a common person.

>> No.12098874
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12098874

>>12095404

>> No.12099189

>>12096975
kek

>> No.12099617
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12099617

>>12094247
>squandered
If they devoted themselves to things they fully enjoyed and died happy they didn't squander a thing.

>> No.12100085

>>12097225
Ahahahaha

>> No.12100095

>>12094247
>The objectively smartest person on earth probably squandered his talent on the pursuit of something completely fucking trivial
fuck you I like skyrim.

>> No.12100098

>>12095414
no u
also yes I would enjoy it if you felaciated my dick thanks.

>> No.12100102

>>12100095
Luckily, I can very confidently say you are not the smartest person on earth.

>> No.12100357
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12100357

>>12095404
Unlikely, but not impossible.

>> No.12100379

lol i came up with this just fucking around xD

>> No.12100507

>>12100357
thats not what it looks like in grown adults
they have the same deviation but the male average is 1/3 of a deviation higher

>> No.12100648

Descartes formalised the Cartesian coordinate system in 1637 and Isaac Newton published his Principia in 1687 (indicating he was in possession of much of the differential and integral calculus) so there was really very little development time in between these two concepts...

Obviously then, the true difficulty was the construction of the Cartesian coordinate system and it might be worthwhile to consider why THIS took so long to come to fruition...

>> No.12100687

Because leibniz autism and infinitesimals made calculus some weird esoteric shit that diverted everyone from the intuitive notion of the limit that the greeks already knew about.

>> No.12100708

>>12100687
But Greeks only used it for basic geometry. Leibniz actually made limits useful for all kind of different calculations

>> No.12100838

>>12100708
Leibniz didn't use limits.

>> No.12100920

>Imagine if the Arabs didn't invent numbers

>> No.12101241

>>12100920
They didn't though

>> No.12101717

>>12099617
based take
smart people don't owe you shit, midwits, they have no obligation to do your peepee poopoo research

>> No.12102963

>>12096948
this

>> No.12103010

>>12094194
Derivatives are more fundatmental than integrals.
Limits are more fundamental that derivatives.
I wonder what is the order in which humanity coceived them.
Limit-> Derivative -> Integral
or some othe order?

>> No.12103033

>>12103010
Weren't integrals discovered before derivatives though?

>> No.12103182

>>12103033
I don't know. Have to look it up in old Calculus book; they generally have history sections.
But how would u define mulipluing function with an infinitisimal dx without knowing meaning of dx "derivative"?

>> No.12103236

>>12103182
dx would not be thought of a relating to a derivative, but a limit, obviously. I'm guessing the Riemann integral was how people did it at first. From Wikipedia
>In Europe, the foundational work was a treatise written by Bonaventura Cavalieri, who argued that volumes and areas should be computed as the sums of the volumes and areas of infinitesimally thin cross-sections.

In many ways that is a much more immediate idea than to apply infinitesimals to slopes.

>> No.12103262

>>12103010
>Limit-> Derivative -> Integral
Trick question. The first people to have an idea of an integral were the ancient greeks in their method of exhaustion. But the Greeks saw all of math as geometric and as we know, integrals are limits. So, in a sense, integrals and limits were invented at the same time by a society who would see all limits as integrals. The derivative came in way later and Newton's insight was actually defining this derivative and finding it's relation with the integral. The reason this was great is that with the derivative you finally had a general theory of integration. Back in the day, you'd only use integrals to solve a problem if you could reduce it to some way in which the integral could be calculated directly.

>> No.12103284

>>12103236
Exhaustion technique to figure out area of non-poligonal 2d shape seems instinctively more natural. I guess Summation notation was first to come before integration which itself came before limit and derivative. L and D gave integral as place in their cooperative group,thus S->I->L->D. And then differential equation. There is a princeton university history of math book. Need to look.

>> No.12103307

>>12100648
Coordinate System was transistor of Calculus.
Vague statement but I just wanted to write to find any semblence.

>> No.12103753
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12103753

>>12094233
>go on /sci/ for the first time in forever
>get mentioned
Rad

>> No.12103756

Literally and unironically because of the Catholic Church. The greeks already knew this.

>> No.12104667

Brainlet here, what does this even mean bros?

>> No.12106005

>>12094764
>Only autists, bipolars and freaks in general devote themselves to STEM.
I always wondered.

t.Physicist

>> No.12106009

>>12103756
How so?

>> No.12106071

>>12094867
Newton, Alchemy

>> No.12106428

>>12094867
>who
My mother
>what
Raising me and my siblings instead of getting a PhD

My mother is the smartest person I know(and my dad is a doctor in geophysics), and it feels weird telling others because no one ever believes me when I say it.

>> No.12106487

>>12094247
The man with the highest IQ recorded is working as a bouncer and spends his free time being racist on facebook (which is based but doesn't pursue anything we don't already know)

>> No.12106519

>>12106487
>He fell for iq meme

>> No.12106543

I can do maths but I barely understand it if that makes sense. Like I can use the op formula but looking at it I don't know what it even represents.
How do I get good?

>> No.12106657

>>12106543
Practice until it becomes second nature. If it never clicks you might just be dumb.

>> No.12106785

>>12094194
Leibniz was only born in 1646.

>> No.12106812

>>12094194
>Why did it take humanity so long to figure this out?
because the church was a dick about it and hindered the spread of algebra which was the last missing piece in developing calculus (we knew infinitesimals and solved zeno paradox way before christ) as well as other useful discoveries of islamic golden age
well, it's not like they were completely unknown, but once mathematicians discovered something with them, they had to take measures around using them in their official works if they didn't want to piss off jesuits.

>> No.12106817

>>12106812
also, that's the reason why newton and leibniz "discovered" calculus almost at the same time

>> No.12106911

>>12106657
Practising only helps me solve questions. I can never understand the concepts may it be maths, physics or engineering.
I used to be smarter when I was 14 but god the depression in last 10 years have rotten my brain

>> No.12107736

>>12094194
Fucken letters 'n shit who cares lmao

>> No.12107806

>>12106911
If you can only solve questions you're basically the same as 90% other people. Trust me maths isn't for the layman to understand. College kids keep solving equations until it becomes muscle memory, then proudly boast that they took <advanced math course>, in reality most of them are far from knowing what they're doing.
t. That's how I and my friends got through university

>> No.12108939

>>12107806
torture idea: present them with recreational math problems or olympic problems for grade schoolers

>> No.12109154

It also has to do with the fact.
We describe 4th dimensional and higher math.. as folding in on it's self.

While we do most of our math on a 2-d graph.

So why wouldn't 3-d math be folded in compared to 2-D.

Take two minecraft squares. Cut them across The diagonal. And now you have 4 pieces. All special right triangles. Fold them into them selves. And you have created an orgin point for a 3D graph.

Or take two 1ft by 1ft by 1ft cubes. Mark 6inches in on all four. Sides of the two cubes. Cut off extra area/weight. Now you cut each cube across a diagonal. And then flip them in on them selves. And now you have an orgin block. Where all the walls are 1ft. ..

It is weird.. and it just hurt my head when I figure it out. Which is why I kind of blew it up.

And I don't always pronounce words properly. Or say sentences properly when trying to convey a simple message. It's partial stage fright of an oral report. I dis like being the center of attention.

But why does it matter if the cubes are. 1ft/1cm/1kilometer.
And I only noticed it this month. And I know I come off as an autistic/retard/freak.

But as a kid. My mother brought home back to the future 1/2/3. Because she had to do a paper on them for her college class. So from that point forward. I dissected movies. Like I was potentially going to right a report on them. And noticing all the underlying details. That are transferred between movies. Equivalate to the same out come. And I noticed not by a stroke of luck alone. I noticed because of the scientific method.

>> No.12109162

Wish I never pointed the shit out....

I just feel like a fucking
Autistic/retarded/freak/schizo.

Because I imagine watching movies with out sight. And taking out the underlying messages through script alone.

>> No.12109184

>>12100357
This is bullshit 99% of the women I know are stupid

>> No.12109199
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12109199

>>12103033
""""""""""""""""""""discovered"""""""""""""""""""""""""

>> No.12109201

>>12109184
Yeah, average female IQ is not only more narrowly distributed but about 5 points lower as well, kicking in after age 15. Male brain is larger with more neurons. Source: https://intelligence-humaine.com/picture/Nyborg%20sex%20differences.pdf