/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.12058106]

Millions is spent each year on research to get plastic out of the ocean and on improving recycling.

This money is completely wasted when you consider:

>China dumps millions of tons of plastic into the ocean every year to save money for its communist economy
>Europe and America dump millions of tons of plastic into the ocean every year because of consumerism and capitalism
>South America, Asia, and Africa dump millions of tons of plastic into the ocean every year because of corruption and failed governments

Since governments are never going to prevent this, how is this problem going to be solved scientifically?

[Anonymous No.12058109]

By the way, everyone is guilty from the government, to the corporation, to the individual. Nobody seems to give a fuck. It seems the only solution is a radical one that doesn't rely on cooperation.

[Anonymous No.12058112]

>>12058106
We will run out of naphtha eventually.

[Anonymous No.12058119]

Ecology is at best a waste of money.

[Anonymous No.12058124]

>>12058106
Some species have already adapted to using some forms of plastic as a fuel see (Ideonella sakaiensis) and given enough time numerous others will form as it's technically an issue that'll solve itself we could of course expedite the process by learning the underlying mechanics behind the protein function and potential improvements

[Anonymous No.12058128]

>>12058119
You don't need to care about ecology at all you faggot.

Literally look few centimeters above the retarded shit you wrote and realize that anyone who buys bananas packaged like that is a massive faggot.

[Anonymous No.12058137]

>>12058128
I'll waste two seconds at opening individually-packaged banana, not a big deal.

[Anonymous No.12058141]

>>12058137
Do you just pick up 20 of those packages at once and carry them around like a faggot?

Or do you shop everyday?

[Anonymous No.12058147]

>>12058106
>life is more convenient than it has ever been with same-day delivery systems, automated farming, and instant communication nearly anywhere in the world
>NOOOOOO BUT THIS COLORFUL PARROT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE THAT MAKES A FUNNY NOISE MIGHT LOSE HIS HOUSE!!!! WE HAVE TO THROW ALL PROGRESS OUT THE WINDOW RIGHT NOW!!!!
I wish sustainablefags actually knew what survival of the fittest meant.

[Anonymous No.12058151]

>>12058147
Modern civilization is dependent on ecosystems to provide it with the vast majority of things it needs. I care about the environment not because I'm a hippie, but because I understand that a healthy biosphere is needed for humans to thrive.

[Anonymous No.12058154]

>>12058147
I dislike the removal of species by our effort as it's such a waste of interesting and unique variation and genes we could study and potentially apply especially as just about all our medicines derive from different species and wiping out unstudied ones is retarded

[Anonymous No.12058156]

>>12058147
And sustainablefags wish that faggots like you knew what natural selection is.

Being on the top of the food chain doesn't mean that you're fittest species, it means that you're faggiest species that does the least work and will collapse like a house of cards once something goes missing.

[Anonymous No.12058158]

>>12058128
This is a minor problem. The amount of single-use shit people buy these days is ridiculous. Take a look at an average working class family's waste each week and see how fucked the whole thing is.

[Anonymous No.12058167]

>>12058147
Dumbass. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Even what you said is internally contradictory. Go read a book and grow up.

[Anonymous No.12058171]

why don't the jews just stop using plastic?

[Anonymous No.12058175]

>>12058147
What does dumping plastic into the ocean and destroying the ecosystem have to do with instant communication you retard

[Anonymous No.12058179]

>>12058158
No it isn't, this is a part of the problem you just mentioned, moron.

You do realize these banana packages are single use too, right?

[Anonymous No.12058234]

>>12058158
I'd rather have a choice to buy a single-use shit than being forced by ecological inquisition to use one plastic bag for a decade.

[Anonymous No.12058236]

>>12058179
Calm down dude. I meant minor in the sense that fruit packaging is < 0.0001% of the total waste, which includes other types of packaging, bottles, containers etc. And I meant single-use in the sense that there is a non-single use alternative e.g. household items that you can buy a lifelong version of.

I have managed to stop making so much waste just by not purchasing single-use items.

[Anonymous No.12058239]

>>12058109
whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Anonymous No.12058240]

>>12058234
Thanks for your opinion, it is totally not worthless and I'm sure everyone values it here.

[Anonymous No.12058242]

>>12058106
Why are animals so retarded

[Anonymous No.12058254]

>>12058240
Of course ecologists don't value any opinions. It's natural for people who want to force everyone in poverty.

[Anonymous No.12058259]

>>12058236
>I have managed to stop making so much waste just by not purchasing single-use items.

Such as those single-use fruit packages?

Are you trolling or just seriously stupid?

Nothing you said denies the fact that that packaging is retarded and is the same problem as any other single-use item.

[Anonymous No.12058264]

>>12058106
If this bird managed to swallow a fucking pile of trash, then swallowing a tiny bit smaller fucking pile did not kill her (and she probably died from something else anyway). That means that trash isn't dangerous (and is also yummy for birds).

[Anonymous No.12058269]

>>12058259
Single-banana packages are a bit silly.
People who don't buy them are ok.
People who love them are ok too.
People who try to crusade against them are malicious.

[Anonymous No.12058272]

Plastic eating bacteria is the answer

[Anonymous No.12058278]

>>12058259
I have never bought fruit in packaging. Maybe if you weren't so angry you'd see that I never condoned it, I simply stated that it was a minor problem. Keep typing insults to others on the internet I'm sure you're helping out with the problem.

[Anonymous No.12058279]

>>12058259
packaging isn't single use you ya retard. a single use item is something like a diaper or a table cloth.

[Anonymous No.12058288]

>>12058106
This man would've never allowed it, yet you hate him.

[Anonymous No.12058298]

>>12058269
And you're a faggot.
>>12058278
Didn't say you do.
>>12058279
You unwrap that shitty banana then throw the packaging it into trashcan just like table cloth or a diaper you insufferable faggot.

[Anonymous No.12058304]

>>12058106
Pic is fake

[Anonymous No.12058317]

>>12058298
I'll ask to double-package fruits I buy just to spite you.

[Anonymous No.12058378]

>>12058106
Did it ever cross your mind "Not fucking south american or african governments in the first place"?

[Anonymous No.12058396]

Its best summed as follows: its not our fault (individual or state agent) that external countries fuck up the planet, however we are the only ones in a position to implement change. Its a 3 part system 1)stop buying chinese/indian shit. Its not even cjeaper
2]make youre own footprint as green as possible
3>implement a solution to the problem, ie cleaning ujp the waste, sanctioning china, genocide, etc

[Anonymous No.12058406]

>>12058106
Just develop enzymes that break down all forms of plastics and encode them into the genomes of ocean bacteria, problem solved.

[Anonymous No.12058496]

>>12058396
This

Also if you live a sustainable lifestyle you actually are a better person than those just preaching it and not doing shit, or those chinks or whatever you despise. Lead by example.

[Anonymous No.12058525]

>>12058406
That type of bacteria already exists

[Anonymous No.12058781]

>>12058106
>Millions is spent each year on research to get plastic out of the ocean and on improving recycling.
part of all those millions go to photographers to make fake pictures like in your OP and use those fake pictures to justify paying millions of tax dollars to NGO's

[Anonymous No.12058815]

Engineer a microscopic lifeform that consoomes plastics. easy peasy

[Anonymous No.12058829]

>>12058781
ah yes these beaches covered in plastic are fake

and the millions of tons of plastic that disappear every year are hiding somewhere

[Anonymous No.12058837]

>>12058815
It already exists. How many times do I have to post this in the same thread

[Anonymous No.12058933]

>>12058837
He obviously means a commercially feasible solution, something that can consume the plastic on a large scale.

[Anonymous No.12059025]

>>12058933
>engineer an organism that consumes plastic on a large scale
yeah what could possibly go wrong there

[Anonymous No.12059043]

>>12058137
I'll target people like you even before niggers when the collapse happens

[Anonymous No.12059048]

>>12059025
Worth it

[Anonymous No.12059051]

>>12058106
>how is this problem going to be solved scientifically?

Design a saline-waterborne organism that eats plastic, hope whatever it produces isn't worse, pray it doesn't evolve to live in fresh water, call it a day

[Anonymous No.12059100]

>>12059025
What could possibly go wrong with the entire marine life foodchain collapsing

[Anonymous No.12059379]

>>12058106
>Since governments are never going to prevent this, how is this problem going to be solved scientifically?
it wont be

[Anonymous No.12059410]

>>12059043
I'll ask to pack every cherry I buy individually. If that will not be enough, I'll ask to pack every grain of rice.

[Anonymous No.12059440]

>>12058109
>original sin preacher

Fuck off you religious nutcase.

[Anonymous No.12060348]

>>12058106
Biotech - make plastic-eating micro-organisms/insects.

[Anonymous No.12060665]

>>12059440
Not him, but yes, climate change is the result of science/advancement.

[Anonymous No.12060670]

>>12060665
Then it is good.

[Anonymous No.12061893]

>>12059440
Don't understand what you mean and how those sentences are related.

[Anonymous No.12061899]

>>12058147
What kind of logic is that.
Do you also drug women at a party and rape them because it's making for a easy going night?

[Anonymous No.12061927]

>>12061899
He's coping, that's all.

[Anonymous No.12062061]

>>12058109
Yeah, remove 75% of the human population

[Anonymous No.12062064]

>>12058147
>WE HAVE TO THROW ALL PROGRESS OUT THE WINDOW RIGHT NOW!!!!
Yes.

[Anonymous No.12062082]

>>12058147
fucking retard, you obviously dont know what you are talking about

[Anonymous No.12062087]

>>12062061
Not exactly a marketable solution. You are propably right though. The question is how do you bring that about, preferably in a non violent consensual way.

[Anonymous No.12062092]

>>12062061
Based

[Anonymous No.12062109]

>>12058106
Eradicate government.
Anarchy is the only way.

[Anonymous No.12062113]

>>12058106
>Since governments are never going to prevent this, how is this problem going to be solved scientifically?

That's what the researchers are trying to figure out you idiot.

[Anonymous No.12062156]

>>12058106
Natural Resource Management Major here.

You need to assign a sustainability cost to everything. Surprisingly enough this can easily be done. Calculate x amount of environmental damage caused by activity y and tax the fuck out of it to put the problem right. Very rapidly this makes many activities unprofitable. Such as those individually wrapped bananas. Would people buy one if they cost one hundred times as much, with 99% of the cost being taken as a tax to clean up pollution? This sort of thing also takes into account the ludicrous cost of implementing the tax in the first place. Appealing to people's responsibility for the environment never achieve anything, but hurt people in the pocket and they soon change their habits.

This is one solution, there are many others, all of which are politically unpopular since most means tax, restrictions, limits, regulations etc. Additionally it just pissing into the wind unless every country does it. Cant really see Asia, India, Africa, South America buying into this can you? Its hard enough to get western countries to do anything.

Since governments are the only ones able to prevent oceanic pollution ( and pollution in general ) the problem will not be solved. Like you said, OP, they are never going to prevent it, but nor can anyone else.

So what happens is it just keeps getting worse. The question then becomes what are the effects of ongoing pollution? Well we can make some educated guesses. More species loss, less biomass, continued habitat destruction, increased diminishing of biodiversity. At some point critical food chains begin to break down, accelerating the process. From there we can expect a greatly reduced ability of the Earth to sustain life. I doubt it would mean extinction for humans, but it would mean the world becomes a much more boring place. Probably the start of a really interesting time for microbes and some insects though.

[Anonymous No.12062180]

>>12062156
Seems like a race to the bottom situtation. Taxes will never be raised because governments gain from keeping them relatively low. If say one country imposes huge taxes, the companies there will move. Moreover places like China where the government also controls corporations will never in a million years worry about the environment.

[Anonymous No.12062246]

>>12062180
Pretty much. Sums up why we are fucked. The only questions which are now relevant are how long before the lifeboats sink, and how many will survive the swim to shore, if any.

Ya know, once upon a time I used to care. I met an old man one when I was a kid, talked about this stuff, he was hopelessly pessimistic. At the time I was of the belief that we lived in an enlightened , rational and progressive society, that humanity would turn things around, undo the damage, act responsibility. After all its very obvious what the consequences of neglect would have for future generations. 20 years later and things haven't got better, they have got worse and are continuing to get worse at an accelerating pace. What environmental victories are achieved are fleeting, trivial and rapidly undone, at the same time the crimes perpetuated against natural systems are not only increasing in intensity but in scope as well.

I feel like I have become like that old man. I see no hope. The best case scenario is more like an alien landscape sparsely populated by human bases eking out an existence, like some martian colony.

[Anonymous No.12062304]

>>12062246
This short story about becoming the old man really captures the sombre and remorseful reality. I too wonder how many more generations of children will get to become the old man before there will be no more old men.

[Anonymous No.12062417]

>>12058829
>not using bulldozers so they can show off just how committed they are

[Anonymous No.12062432]

>>12062417
>thinking civilians have bulldozers

[Anonymous No.12062451]

>>12058112
i am betting my cock and balls than when we do we will find a way to recycle it from caps or whatever and suddenly poof, waste levels in the ocean drop 50% in a year

[Anonymous No.12062485]

>>12062432
>what are rentals?

[Anonymous No.12062535]

>>12059025
>ywn suffer an infestation of plastic rot disease in your lifetime

[Anonymous No.12062607]

>>12062485
>thinking civilians have money for that or are willing to spend that much
ironic you brainlet post but are the only brainlet here
take your worthless posts and fuck off

[Anonymous No.12062972]

>>12062607
>money
There are about 15 people in that pic and you can rent a dozer for less than $500 a day.

[Anonymous No.12063796]

>>12058137
Poor animal

[Anonymous No.12063801]

>>12058147
Post physique

[Anonymous No.12063805]

>>12058147
Dumb cunt, no, you’re a loser, that’s what you are

[Anonymous No.12063813]

>>12058147
Retards like you need to post a photo of what they look like, this is the problem with 4chan, I’m probably getting mad at some faggot who can’t even do a shirt run, when if IRL I wouldn’t even consider you.

I’d save that parrot before your fat ass.

[Anonymous No.12063843]

>>12058106
>Amerifats, Euros and Chinks pollute the shit out of the world
>I-it's da fault of the latinos and the africans
No, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.12064244]

>>12059410
Based.
When I go grocery shopping I put every individual item in seperate plastic bags, then I throw the bags outside my car while driving. Its fun seeing them float around in a swarm

[Anonymous No.12064253]

>>12058288
Enviromentalist, animal rights activist, gay, socialist, vegetarian, drug addict, hipster

Uhhh why do lefties hate him again?

[Anonymous No.12064282]

>>12058106
>save money for its communist economy
How is even that possible? Isn't plastic recycling a good business?

[Anonymous No.12064297]

>>12058109
>ecorage mode activated
Wtf!? Where is that?

[Anonymous No.12065280]

>>12063843
lol triggered so much you couldn't even read the post. you just saw 'south america' and threw an autistic tantrum.

the only reason africans and latinos are doing a bit less is because they're poor. give them a bit of money and they'll destroy the planet even worse.

[Anonymous No.12065281]

>>12064282
Keeping GDP high is more important. At this time it's cheaper to produce more plastic than try to recycle it. Recycling requires new infrastructure and stuff, it might not be profitable for 10-15 years somewhere like China.

[Anonymous No.12065289]

>>12058147
Successful bait that completely derails the thread. And yet tourists cry about muh pol boogeyman instead.

[Anonymous No.12065891]

>>12065280
There are high income Latin American countries. And even excluding those, the average Latin American country is on par with China on a per capita basis.

You are just being obtuse, because you can see from the map, that the problem is clearly China and South East Asia not enforcing environmental standards on plastic products. >>12063843

Latin America enforces them. Not as well as Europe, but the difference with China is huge.

So are you covering for the Chinks being the largest environmental despoilers out there, or what is it?

[Anonymous No.12065896]

>>12065280
There are a few high income Latin American countries. And even excluding those, the average Latin American country is on par with China on an income per capita basis. You are just being obtuse, because you can see from the map here (>>12063843), that the problem is clearly China and South East Asia not enforcing environmental standards on plastic products. Notice the red inside each circle.

Latin America enforces environmental standards. Not as well as Europe, but the difference with China is huge.

So are you covering for the Chinks being the largest environmental despoilers out there, or what is it?

[Anonymous No.12066158]

>>12062246
wow this makes me want to hang myself

[Anonymous No.12066297]

>>12062087
>Your test results just came back, Tyrone, and it appears that you're qualified to receive $5,000 for one little task

[Anonymous No.12066329]

>>12062087
I mean if someone had a bush level admnistration in terns of power they could prob lob a nuke at every major city. It would be clean and not much would be lost.

[Anonymous No.12066491]

>>12065280
>the only reason africans and latinos are doing a bit less is because they're poor
Because they aren't a wasteful or generate as much. Also places that develop later adapt the modern trends easier for city/environmental polices. Asian cities are big about keeping infrastructure up to date compared to older American and European cities

[Anonymous No.12066494]

>>12058378
several East African states banned plastic bags

[Anonymous No.12066522]

>>12066491
I can easily falsify this. Look at first generation immigrants who go live in the west. They instantly become just as wasteful. Your argument is the basic noble savage fallacy.

[Anonymous No.12066535]

>>12066522
Neither of those countries, nor the countries they immigrate to, produce much plastic waste. China does.

[Anonymous No.12066909]

>>12066522
Completely different you retard. One is a guy moving into a society that may or may not be good at recycling plastics. The other is country that is developing to be more modern.

[Anonymous No.12066954]

ocean plastic

blah blah blah consumerism, recycling, virtue signalling, blah blah, opinions.

90% of ocean waste comes from the 3rd world shithole nations rivers, like ganges, nile, china etc.
put a big fucking net on the ends of these rivers, because those dimwits aint gonna stop dumping thier noodle sachets and waters bottles in the rivers anytime soon.

for the last 10% of ocean plastic, that is lost fishing nets and tackle. so ban that, but this would be 10x more expensive than the river nets, since why would the world wide chinese trawler fleets stop? china first.

western countries consumerism bad so they should x.... does nothing, 99% of western waste goes to landfill, there it is stored, sealed, and eventually a wildlife reserve is put on top of it. problem? non.

so business could solve the problem, scoop up all the plastic from those rivers, hold onto it for 50 years past true peak oil, and resell it for 100- 1000 times the cost.

[Anonymous No.12066976]

>>12066909
I'm sorry you're too dumb for me to try to explain.

>>12066954
Everything you said here has already been discussed. Worthless post.

[Anonymous No.12067155]

>>12058106
>muh communism
>muh capitalism
>muh corruption
Only on your third point do you almost start asking the right question, but then you pray for a magic answer from science.

>>12058109
>the only solution is a radical one that doesn't rely on cooperation.
Maybe ayys have the answer? What if we all smoke some weed while praying that they come to our aid?