Wearing the mask

[Anonymous No.11964714]

I'm a bit confused about this. Just how efficacious are wearing N95 masks? How much would the virus's spread be slowed? Yes I'm aware of the concept of flattening the curve.

I'm just saying that people seem to believe that by wearing the mask it will prevent them and others from catching the disease, that masks + distancing + testing will somehow = a cure. The people who angrily demand mask use language like "saving" the old and vunerable, which would be inaccurate. Slowing and lessening the likelyhood is the best they could hope for.

The harsh reality is it seems we have a second common cold like disease that will likely live alongside the current flu and never go away. Years and decades later we will likely have this going around.

Please /sci/ - tell me where I'm wrong?

[Anonymous No.11964795]

If you retards just stop spreading the disease then the Rt will fall well under 1 and the virus will be reduced to a super low simmer. Then we can start using contact tracing effectively, and work to actually eliminate it in regions.
This will never happen because leadership absolutely screwed the fucking pooch right from the start.

[Anonymous No.11964820]

>>11964795
You really think we can stop a disease that has already infected millions of people?

[Anonymous No.11964878]

>>11964714
>Just how efficacious are wearing N95 masks?
Very effective if worn properly.

>How much would the virus's spread be slowed?
If everyone wore N-95 masks, the R0 would nearly reach 0, and the virus would be eliminated within months. Many other respiratory viruses would also be eradicated in the process.

[Anonymous No.11964996]

>>11964878
>If everyone wore N-95 masks, the R0 would nearly reach 0, and the virus would be eliminated within months. Many other respiratory viruses would also be eradicated in the process.
Source please.

[Anonymous No.11965030]

>imagine living in a country where corona is still a problem

[Anonymous No.11965144]

>>11964996
It's common sense, anon. N-95s reduce infection rates to almost zero in those who wear them (even when dealing with highly infectious patients). Now place one on every person on the planet and give them proper training. The number of infectious particles getting through the masks would be extremely low. Very little surface contamination. You would halt an outbreak in its tracks. Without new hosts, viruses would be completely eliminated. Eventually new viruses would make the jump from other animals to humans, but we could eliminate the current endemic viruses. A strict as hell quarantine would serve the same purpose. But neither scenario will occur, so it's moot.

[Anonymous No.11965446]

>>11965144
Source pls.

How long would this strict quarantine need to last?

[Anonymous No.11965480]

>>11965446
Forever, goyim filth.

[Anonymous No.11965516]

>>11964714
>never go away
It's gone away in other countries.

But you're right, what we need now isn't more masks. It's a 2nd nation wide shutdown, because Trump fucked up the 1st one. I don't want to be political, but he really did fuck it up for everybody.

[Anonymous No.11965585]

>>11965516
no it hasn't, lmao. If five positives was all it took to fuck a country, that's all it'll take in the future.
Corona-chan isn't going anywhere.

[Anonymous No.11965708]

>>11965516
What are the testing rates between those nations though? How do we know they aren't lacking in testing capacity or fibbing?

[Anonymous No.11965756]

>>11965708
Death rates do not lie

[Anonymous No.11965818]

>>11965585
>>11965708
>if we ignore the problem, then there's no problem

Reality doesn't work that way, and neither does coronachan.
You have drunk the koolaid of misinformation and propaganda.

How does it taste?

[Anonymous No.11965834]

>>11965756
Most of those countries have much smaller populations. Can we normalize based on population basis?
Also under what circumstances are they ordering testing? Do they have adequate testing?

[Anonymous No.11965844]

>>11965756
>cough once in your life
corona!
>have a fever two years before dying
corona!
>get run over a car
corona!

It's AIDS all over again, for fuck's sake.

[Anonymous No.11966123]

>>11965834
>Can we normalize based on population basis?
Sure, here you go.

>Also under what circumstances are they ordering testing? Do they have adequate testing?
Testing is more or less irrelevant when it comes to deaths, since when a patient walks into an ER showing symptoms they are tested, unless it's some African hellhole or a government that is deliberately lying, you can count on death rate estimates being reliable otherwise.

Testing matters more when it's about determining the infection rate in the wider population, since not all countries are doing random testing among the wider population, but when it comes to people walking into hospitals you can bet most countries are going to test those.

[Anonymous No.11966164]

>>11964820
We've done it plenty of times before.

[Anonymous No.11966213]

>>11965446
If everyone actually isolated and wore masks starting in March, then by June the virus would have been exterminated. The problem is you only need 1 in 7 people to be totally retarded to keep it spreading at a low rate forever, even if the other 6 take all precautions.

[Anonymous No.11966309]

>>11966123
>Deaths per capita
What?

[Anonymous No.11966334]

>>11966164
Then why is the common cold still around?

[Anonymous No.11966359]

>>11964996
There's more ways for the virus to spread retard. You would have to require everyone to wear a god damned hazmat suit to get R0.

[Anonymous No.11966362]

>>11966334
Nobody ever gave enough of a shit about it because it's just annoying.

[Anonymous No.11966401]

>>11966309
COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people

[Anonymous No.11966527]

>Noooooo, fuck you Trump, lock down the country now!

>Meanwhile

[Anonymous No.11966540]

>>11965516
Yeah but had he locked it down effectively Democrats finally would've had reason to remove him from office (being a totalitarian dick face who just messed with elections). Oh course he thought it was a trap

[Anonymous No.11966547]

>>11966123
If you actually believe this you are an imbecile.

[Anonymous No.11966576]

>>11965756
>death rates do not lie
Yea that's why the US death rate is pretty damn normal, in fact less deaths this year than 2 years ago, must be corona saving lives!

[Anonymous No.11966613]

>>11965516
What happened in June?
It wasn't the protests, was it?

[Anonymous No.11966615]

>>11966547
Not an argument.

>>11966576
I was talking about COVID-19 death rates.

As for the over all death rates:
Less car accidents and flu deaths due to lockdowns = Lower death rates

[Anonymous No.11966625]

>>11966615
My point is that although I do believe countries like the USA handled the pandemic awfully (denialism), it is quite humorous to be that people think the classifcation of a "covid-19" death hasa global standard and is not merely arbirtary thus rcomparsions between countries is pointless.

[Anonymous No.11966690]

>>11966625
OK that is a fair point, still you can expect some sort of trendline to emerge, many unusual deaths are hard to hide. Maybe they are not reliable in direct comparisons but they are as general trendline.

ie. We can reliably know Australia or Japan aren't blowing up with COVID deaths despite the low testing rates in Japan.

[Anonymous No.11966856]

>>11965516
>It's a 2nd nation wide shutdown
To save a few baby boomers and diabetic hamplanets

[Anonymous No.11967153]

>>11966527
Swedes have followed lockdown procedures more strictly than countries with actual lockdowns.

[Anonymous No.11967170]

>>11966856
I reckon I had it in February, when it was obviously circulating in the UK before we had been told. Worst cold/flu I've ever had. A week of the worst sore throat ever, which painkillers couldn't even touch, plus ridiculous non-stop unproductive coughing. I didn't sleep overnight and only managed to sleep in the day once I'd become so exhausted I completely collapsed. Thought I was getting better after 10 days of so, then a second wave of sinus infection laid me out for another 5 days or so. Altogether >2 weeks of the worst cold of my life. I'm a reasonably fit guy in my forties and it wrecked me. Don't be complacent.

[Anonymous No.11967197]

DON'T SPIT ON ME

[Anonymous No.11967230]

the virus is a hoax
>boomers are the only ones at risk
>faulty chinese test kits
YOU HAVE THE CHINAVIRUS
>pointingwojak.png

[Anonymous No.11967233]

>>11967153
Can I get a source on that sweetie?
>>11967170
>forties
Stay the fuck home boomer.

[Anonymous No.11967238]

>>11965446
>How long would this strict quarantine need to last?
2-3 months maybe, *if* every person on the planet quarantined, and did so in small numbers. For example, if you had hundreds of people on a ship, there's potential they could pass it around for a few months, which could allow the virus to survive until the end of quarantine. You could go with the China approach and dig up the roads around the cities, then allow the virus to run its course in those areas over a 3-4 month period. That still leaves rural areas though. Eradicating the virus is likely impossible at this point, but cases can be suppressed with intelligent lock downs, and then use masks, testing, and contact tracing to prevent flare-ups. It's obvious that world leaders are banking on a vaccine.

[Anonymous No.11967282]

>>11967238
>It's obvious that world leaders are banking on a vaccine.
imagine thinking (((world leaders))) want people to have freedom of assembly, without wearing a cuck muzzle. just imagine believing that they're going to let you go "back to normal"

[Anonymous No.11967283]

>>11964714
Real N95 masks don't use earloops fyi.

[Anonymous No.11967288]

>>11967282
>imagine thinking (((world leaders))) want people to have freedom of assembly, without wearing a cuck muzzle.
Some countries have already returned to that, the ones that managed to control it. But I'm not one of the people throwing a fit over wearing a mask.

>>11967283
Those are KN95's, the Chinese equivalent to N95's, and many are failing to meet the specs they're designed for.

[Anonymous No.11967476]

>>11965144
>and give them proper training
this is the problem. people have a hard time seeing when the stoplight turns grean, never mind training them how to wear a mask lmfao.

[Anonymous No.11967509]

>>11964714
Masks are honestly the least important and least useful measure. Shame it's more or less completely hijacked public discourse and become some kind of moral statement.

[Anonymous No.11967514]

>>11965144
>N-95s reduce infection rates to almost zero in those who wear them (even when dealing with highly infectious patients)
Yeah, except they're also wearing gowns, gloves, glasses/goggles and a face shield, as well as being trained in proper infectious care practices and equipment disposal. Average normalfag struggle to even wear a surgical mask correctly.

[Anonymous No.11967620]

>>11967514
>Yeah, except they're also wearing gowns, gloves, glasses/goggles and a face shield
N-95s alone nearly eliminate respiratory infections. Infection is possible through the eye, but it seems to be uncommon, and the severity of the infection may be low enough that the person doesn't even notice. The bigger issue would be expecting every person to wear an N-95 for the majority of the day, including hot as hell places like Africa.

[Anonymous No.11967691]

>>11967509
No they aren't. People get sick all the time from stagnant air or recirculated air, a mask prevents you from inhaling 99% of the virus in the air, but most importantly it drastically reduces the virus coming out of an already infected person which can occur even if they are not sneezing or coughing, just simply breathing.

[Anonymous No.11967745]

>>11964795
>Then we can start using contact tracing effectively
Over my dead body

[Anonymous No.11967747]

>>11967745
It's not a bad idea. You click the box and give up data constantly.

Click the box anon.

[Anonymous No.11967778]

>>11967747
>Just click da box whyte boi
Not happening Tyrone.
The government has used this very real virus as a political tool.
Me giving them more private information won't change shit.

[Anonymous No.11967785]

>>11967778
They could use it for useful things and you could give it up anonymously.

[Anonymous No.11967786]

>>11964795
>Then we can start using contact tracing effectively, and work to actually eliminate it in regions.
What if I don't consent and deem this unconstitutional and a gross violation of human rights?

[Anonymous No.11967790]

>>11967786
Then don't participate. Sort of like the census.

[Anonymous No.11967811]

>>11967785
>They could use it for useful things and you could give it up anonymously.
Once the government implements at least one effective control measure and politicians stop using the virus for scary brownie points, I will consider giving up my private information with the belief that the government might actually do something good with it.
But it's an election year and that won't happen, so fuck off.

[Anonymous No.11967823]

>>11964820
yes

[Anonymous No.11967873]

>>11964795
The collective effect of individual decisions are the predominant issue. Swedes behaved well even without legal coercion. Between the riots, ignoring mask laws, college students buttchugging on the beach, boomers getting trashed at bars, etc... we deserve everything we get.

Most states would have R<1 if they'd just social distance and wash their hands. Not getting sick should be sufficient motivation for that, and authorities overplaying their hand run the risk of exacerbating the issue by causing protests. Everything is already on the brink between social, political, and economic strain given the racial tensions, election year politics, and business closings. Honestly it's not a bad play to just let the virus run its course and let people reevaluate their priorities when people they know start dying.

[Anonymous No.11967874]

>>11964714
Seems like we can create a vaccine. Wearing a mask will lower the spread rate no one claims it’s a cure. Plenty of studies have shown it slows spread rate in a pandemic. You can search on google scholar pandemic mask use if you are curious. We can slow the rate at which people get it so the medical system isn’t overrun that’s the whole point. This will also lower the amount of people getting before the vaccine comes out thus saving lives and preventing harm. Your retarded straw man is retarded. Even if you think this disease will never go away (which it will) You’d still want to slow the rate of cases till people start to become more resistant to the disease so the medical system isn’t overrun.

[Anonymous No.11968235]

>>11967873
That masks have been pushed as a magic force field has caused people to get really lax about social distancing and hygiene. We would have been better off if the masks were left to the hospitals and we instead pushed really hard on social distancing and hygiene. But those require actual effort while a mask you can just throw on and go party is easy. Its the "just give me a pill and don't make me change my lifestyle" mentality that caused this. People want a simple fix. Masks, though ridiculously ineffective, are the placebo the public wanted so they could (figuratively not literally) wash their hands of responsibility.

[Anonymous No.11968261]

>>11967874
There are daily threads like >>11967828 on the topic of most studies being nothing more than flawed piles of crap. Just like you can find studies that say masks are good, you can find studies that say masks are worthless. Same for HCQ. There is no scientific agreement on pretty much anything but when you're a partisan hack or a navel gazing loser, you can loudly declare your studies to be the one source of truth while conflicting studies are heresy.
It's fine you want to believe some studies while ignoring others. The problem comes in when you want to be emperor of humanity and dictate what everyone else should do based on your faith in your cherry picked studies even though many people have faith in their own set of cherry picked studies. For some reason you, like all religious people, believe your collection of faith based beliefs are the one true belief and all others should be punished for not believing in the same baseless collection of beliefs.

[Anonymous No.11969445]

>>11964714
TELL ME ABOUT US CITIZENS! WHY WON'T THEY WEAR THE MASK?!?!
LOTTA LOYALTY FOR A WAL-MART SHOPPER!

[Anonymous No.11969558]

>>11964795
>just stop spreading the disease
naah brah i gotta party it's summer

[Anonymous No.11969565]

>>11967786
>>11967745
Contact tracing done right would be fine. It's not impossible to use cryptography to create a system where it's anonymous enough to not just create a list of who's met who. And it would always be optional. Just reducing this thing's spread by a bit would be a huge help.

[Anonymous No.11969572]

>>11967811
It doesn't have to be government

[Anonymous No.11969574]

>>11967745
>>11967778
>>11967811
Are you that retarded that you unironically believe the gubmint or some corporation needs you to say YES to contact tracing for them to be spying on you and collecting your information constantly 24/7?
It's already happening bro and it ain't up to you

[Anonymous No.11969591]

>>11968235
The problem is the average person here is really kind of dumb and can't understand probabilities that aren't almost 0 or 1. Masks either "work" or "don't work"; "they reduce the probability of transmission" isn't comprehensible.

>But those require actual effort while a mask you can just throw on and go party is easy.
Technically we probably could all party if we were willing to wear real full-face respirators and wash up really well after. Makes it kinda hard to drink though.

>>11969572
It also doesn't have to require sending anything to the government/corporations if you don't get a positive test result. AFAIK the Apple/Google solutions had all the data stay on your phone and you give them your keys to send out if you're infected.

[Anonymous No.11969618]

>>11969574
>be afraid of government
>carry phone everywhere
It's really silly.

[Anonymous No.11969944]

>>11965516
>because Trump fucked up the 1st one
What he really fucked up was not just banning China/Italy travel at the beginning. Would it have stopped it? No. But it would have slowed things down a ton. Not like he wasn't hoping for something to use against China anyways.

[Anonymous No.11970043]

>>11969574
>>11969618
>The government already does it anyways, so just give up.
>Let it happen.
As fruitless as it may be, I will continue to voice my disapproval for this absurd bullshit until they put me in a shallow grave for wrongthink.
Go ahead and tell your bosses I said that. You might get a pay raise.

[Anonymous No.11970091]

>>11964714
Need to dump some priors here first.

Coronavirii have a size of 80-120 nm, while certain N95 facemask manufacturers claim an effective filter of 60-100 nm particles at 84 L/min flow rate. This is ignoring additional particles that can further hinder the virus penetrating the mask by attaching themselves with those.
You can check articles that tackle this issue. So far, particle size notwithstanding, clinical trials show low-certainty effectiveness of these mask on healthcare personnel, yet it is still recommended to use them for any procedure.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-3234

Empirical observations in hospital show N95 facemasks and barrier / goggles to be effective in both aerosol-generating procedures and otherwise, so you can conclude that having some protection vs. no protection drastically decreases your chances at being infected.

>The harsh reality is it seems we have a second common cold like disease that will likely live alongside the current flu and never go away.
With the R0 COVID-19 has, this is a possibility. Which is why active research for an effective vaccine occurred, and as well for any medication effective enough for treatment, like what happened with Remdesivir. And such efforts exist because, last I checked, not even H1N1 influenza had this much mortality and confirmed cases in such a small time frame, and that was without a worldwide lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11970143]

>>11967170
As someone with asthma, that sounds horrifying.

[Anonymous No.11970154]

>>11970143
OK, hear me out. Unless you have moderate to severe asthma (criteria for this is well documented), it shouldn't factor much in your disease, since your immune system is going bonkers with a very virulent pathogen, basically exhausting plasma cells as antigen-presenting cells for anti-COVID IgG and IgM production, and probably won't be as bothered to make IgE as much.

Would love to see an opposing view to this, though. Through my clinical experience, I've seen allergy and asthma cases being less pronounced during acute infection, and I'm guessing it's tied to virulence and plasma cells.

[Anonymous No.11970173]

>>11970154
>moderate to severe asthma (criteria for this is well documented)
To wit, I would say I have moderate asthma. What are the documented criteria?

[Anonymous No.11970199]

>>11970173
GINA Guidelines. I will list the summary here:

>Asthma severity can be assessed when the patient has been on controller treatment for several months:17,138
>•Mild asthma is asthma that is well controlled with Step 1 or Step 2 treatment (Box 3-5, p.54), i.e. with as-needed ICS-formoterol alone, or with low-intensity maintenance controller treatment such as low dose ICS, leukotrienereceptor antagonists or chromones. For patients prescribed as-needed ICS-formoterol, the frequency of use thatshould be considered to represent well-controlled asthma has not yet been determined.
>•Moderate asthmais asthma that is well controlled with Step 3 treatment e.g. low dose ICS-LABA.
>•Severe asthma is asthma that requires Step 4 or 5 treatment (Box 3-5, p.54), e.g. high dose ICS-LABA, to prevent it from becoming ‘uncontrolled’, or asthma that remains ‘uncontrolled’ despite this treatment.

[Anonymous No.11970218]

>>11970199
>low dose ICS-LABA
I've been on one before when I was much younger and once again when my asthma was particularly bad a few years ago. Haven't used since though. Guess I should be fine.

Thanks mate.

[Anonymous No.11970265]

>>11964714
masks work if both people wear it.
no it's not 100%, but it's very effective.
the science is in

[Anonymous No.11970393]

>>11964714
>Please /sci/ - tell me where I'm wrong?
If it is as deadly as they say, it will kill humanity.

[Anonymous No.11970405]

>>11970091
It's in your fucking water supply if you drink groundwater and desal so everybody's fucked.
Nobody is doing anything about it and nobody will because it's too hard to do.

[Anonymous No.11970434]

>>11970043
That isn't what I said at all, don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying you're a stupid dumb nigger that thinks you're gonna rebel against some future government spying when you aren't rebelling against the government spying right now. Empty words is all you are.

[Anonymous No.11970641]

>>11970405
If you have strong evidence about it, the solution is quite easy, though a bit expensive: UV-C.
It would be very insightful to know how many people got infected this way.
>>11970393
It doesn't have to be deadly to warrant a global scale quarantine, just as incapacitating as >>11967170. I'm sure the bosses would like to whip people to slave away while being practically useless while ailed by COVID, but the truth is that if you let a virus that can cause a flu as harrowing and incapacitating as COVID, you will have equivalent economic damage on the same time frame as we've seen so far, and also have a huge hit to emergency services, since you're not taking precautions. That means police, utilities and health services will surely be unable to attend even a small fraction of the usual workload (made worse with the concurrent disproportionate calls for health services), so you also will provide a perfect window of opportunity for crime and legit terrorist acts to manifest.
But, you know, if it's not flesh-eating deadly, we can downplay it.

[Anonymous No.11970825]

It's just the flu tho

[Anonymous No.11970905]

>>11966334
Because there are more than a hundred strains.

[Anonymous No.11971120]

>>11964714
kn95 is a meme chinese standard
placebo for masks

[Anonymous No.11971183]

>>11966527
Swedes are not retards though

[Anonymous No.11971187]

Do people not know that aerosols and droplets are not the same thing?

[Anonymous No.11971197]

>>11965516
>It's gone away in other countries.
>it went away!

And then what? The second you open your travel again it's back. Do you really think the powers that be would be okay with baning Africans and Indians from coming into Europe? they'd lose their shit. Not to mention all the people entering illegally. You'd have to adopt extreme border measures to 'stop' this and even then you've only stopped it in places you've cut off. And the biggest question is for what? You're killing the economy for 0.1% of the population?

[Anonymous No.11971203]

>>11971197
>You're killing the economy for 0.1% of the population?
Studies have been conducted on this. Countries that didn't lock down had economic contractions just as big as those that locked down. Turns out thousands dying and people panicking is not good for the economy either...

[Anonymous No.11971206]

>>11971203
Losing 30% of your economy is not the same as losing 95% of your economy. Not to mention the consequences (suicides, crime, small businesses lost forever) that come with a collapsed system.

[Anonymous No.11971221]

>>11971206
>Losing 30% of your economy is not the same as losing 95% of your economy.
I said JUST AS BIG. Can you read or are you illiterate on top of retarded?

[Anonymous No.11971238]

>>11971221
This has everything to do with how open you kept your country. America remained more open than Europe did which is why it's economic downturn is less severe. You can try to argue that percentage is small but by the end of the year it wont feel that way.

[Anonymous No.11971257]

>>11971238
UK remained more open than Italy but look at their contraction. Germany locked down harder than the US but shows the same contraction.

[Anonymous No.11971280]

>>11971257
That's nice. Do you have the study that shows past pandemic shutdowns and their studied outcomes? No? How interesting.

[Anonymous No.11971286]

>>11971280
Here you go...

https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2020/03/fight-the-pandemic-save-the-economy-lessons-from-the-1918-flu.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8210647/Study-suggests-lockdowns-economic-damage-alternative.html

[Anonymous No.11971296]

>>11964714
If everyone you know is not sick, then wearing mask has 0% chance of working. Its effectiveness is 0%.

If you dont know if someone is sick or not, then the effectiveness is rate of infection in area x 95%.

If everyone around you is sick, then the effectiveness is 95%.

[Anonymous No.11971307]

>>11971286
Is there a study of this written before COVID existed? Just seems a little convinient that they are dated June 2020

[Anonymous No.11973426]

>>11971307
You got absolutely destroyed dude, just move on and be humble next time.

[Anonymous No.11973618]

Cult of the Mask
Rule of the Lie

[Anonymous No.11974302]

>>11967786
>>11967745
Contact tracing doesn't have to be invasive or violate any of your rights. https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ContactTracing-CryptographySpecification.pdf
However the NSA data collection RIGHT NOW does, so how about you do something about that, rather than bitch about an actually productive initiative.