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/sci/ - Science & Math

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11942163 No.11942163 [Reply] [Original]

Does quantum observation destroy information by collapse?
If so, isn't it forbidden by 2nd law of thermodynamics?

>> No.11942169

>>11942163
The laws of thermodynamics aren't laws and say nothing about information because that isn't a real physical object that exists in the world. You're thinking of gay madeup pseud shit, information theory. Which isn't real and physics says nothing about.

>> No.11942171

information isn't lost, that's just a dumb way of saying we don't know what state it's in until we measure it lmao, the system "collpases" from a random state since you can't state what the result of something was until you measure it

>> No.11942187

Read Shannon information theory.
Then read quantum information theory.

>> No.11942201

>>11942163
If you're a copenhagenfag, information is destroyed. With delayed-choice experiment, copenhagen's explanation is particles time-traveled.

If you're many-world, information is not destroyed, but rather all states are still there, just not apparent. With delayed-choice experiment, there is nothing spooky like time-travel since the states are not destroyed in the first place.

>> No.11942238

>>11942187
>>11942201
information isn't real

>> No.11942285

>>11942169
>the laws of thermodynamics aren't laws
so state a single case in which these non-laws are broken
>they say nothing about information
you should read a bit more about entropy
>because that isn't a real physical object that exists in the world [...] Which isn't real and physics says nothing about
information can be described as the sum of the states of all parts of a physical system, may they be particles or something less fundamental. The state of the system surely is a real thing.
>gay madeup pseud shit, information theory
without this gay pseud shit you wouldn't even be able to post a picture on this mongolian sheep hearding forum

>> No.11942398

>>11942201
Copenhagen violates second law of thermodynamics?
Copenhagen must be wrong.

>> No.11942433
File: 490 KB, 449x401, 1576719771136.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11942433

>>11942163
>quantum
>>>/x/

Also, try to actually learn what the Laws of Thermodynamics are and you wouldn't feel the need to ask questions like that.

You can begin your educational journey into the Laws of Thermodynamics by listening to these excellent presentations:

> The 0th Law Explained:
https://youtu.be/Gvr_BcH1Cmw

> The 1st Law Explained:
https://youtu.be/uyEwWZVSIrA

> The 2nd Law Explained:
https://youtu.be/akn-9Vr6jkc

> The 3rd Law Explained:
https://youtu.be/ChAj2_8shNI

> The 4th Law Explained:
https://youtu.be/t8Nm9bnWOTs

>> No.11942538

>>11942285
You retard, humans attaching a linguistic tag to describe a phenomenon does not mean that phenomenon exists. It just means were using a model to describe something based on how our senses sense it. It has nothing to do at all with how things are in themselves.

>> No.11942544

>>11942433
Thermodynamics aren't real.
QM is real.
All your videos are for low IQ retards

>> No.11942552

>>11942544

>Thermodynamics aren't real, QM is real.

>>>/x/

>>>/x/

>>>/x/

>>>/x/

>> No.11942556

>>11942552
You are a low intelligence retard

>> No.11942560

>>11942552
You LITERALLY link to a shit for brains dumbfuck faggot who thinks that Kurchoffs law is false and that the sun I'd ball of metal that conducts it's power by Birkland currents on the surface rather than through fussion in its core.
Electric Universe is not true you retard.

>> No.11942561

>>11942163
>information can't be destroyed
>I forgot my password
checkm8 physishits

>> No.11942793

>>11942285
energy is being created out of nothing on the cosmic scale

>> No.11942820

>>11942285
>The state of the system surely is a real thing.
This is so ridiculous. It’s a conceptual thing in the most obvious way. It’s like saying two ships traveling away from each other at .6c violate the cosmic speed limit because their “separation speed” is 1.2C. Separation speed is a made up concept with no physical real world analogue, even if it can be useful. Just like...
>you should read a bit more about entropy
Entropy is not information. Stupid questions like this are the result of dumbing down physics for engineers or teachers being afraid their students are to dumb to deserve a real answer. statistical thermodynamics just took that definition and really ran with it just cause it suits their needs closely enough.

>> No.11942895

>>11942163

Anything that contradicts QM Is wrong , op. So thermodynamics is wrong along with causality, the finite speed of light, inductive epistemology, and object persistence ,

>> No.11943426

>>11942556
>>11942560
>>Thermodynamics aren't real, QM is real.
>>>/x/

Also, yes, Kirchhoff's thermal law is demonstrably invalid.

You can begin your educational journey here:

> What is Kirchhoff's Law? Blackbody and Cavity Radiation!
https://youtu.be/DodFojdkSIA

> Is Kirchhoff's Law True? The Experiment!
https://youtu.be/YQnTPRDT03U

> Kirchhoff's Law - The Second Experiment!
https://youtu.be/LE7fZ565DWc

> Kirchhoff's Law, Max Planck, and the Carbon Particle!
https://youtu.be/m-poyIY7pfQ

> Kirchhoff's Law vs the 2nd Law: The "Boxes Side-by-Side Experiment"!
https://youtu.be/rsQXu5qLkgg

> Kirchhoff's Law vs the 0th, 1st, and 2nd Laws: The "Box in a Box" Experiment!
https://youtu.be/5cS1mfZ2XYY

> Linking Planck's Equation with the Physical World!
https://youtu.be/_w8PJZvnLGI

> The Big Bang, Photons, & The Microwave Background!
https://youtu.be/NHOo3elX5-c

> History of Kirchhoff's Law - Presentation at The German Physical Society
https://youtu.be/83JU6enMBS0

>> No.11943678

>>11943426
Electric universe is not real you dumb fucking retard. Kirchoffs law is not false and QM is real.
YouTube faggotry isn't an education you sniveling moron.

>> No.11944134
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11944134

>>11943678
Except we live in an electric universe made of 99.99% real plasma (as opposed to imaginary dark matter etc), Kirchhoff's law is invalid as proven experimentally and QM is absolute nonsense. A "law" of physics which cannot be proven experimentally to be valid isn't a law of physics.

There is no "quantum" anything. It's not poorly understood near magic effects of some mythical theoretical particle. It's simply electrons being so small they can move through any material at the path of least resistance, because nothing can exert 100% perfect electrical control over them. It's current leakage. It's nothing but current leakage. It's current leakage in short channel devices, and it happens at literally every feature size, it is not exclusive to small FinFET devices like upcoming 5nm EUV FinFETs. Even planar devices have extremely high degrees of leakage through their channels, directly under the gates, electrons still leak out. Yet despite this the transistors still function.

Quantum mechanics has done exactly nothing for any tech we have. Tech is made by engineers and most of the basis of our electrical tech was invented over 100 years ago. QM has contributed nothing to tech. Only engineers and classical physics contribute to tech development. QM proponents try to claim quantum computers, but since QM is nonsense, quantum computers are also nonsense. Quantum computers do not exist and never will. The """""quantum""""" computers they claim have been demonstrated are not quantum, and they have yet to actually prove they are in fact operating using any special physics or that they are in fact hugely faster in practice and reality.

>> No.11944295

>>11944134
This. Quantum computing meme is a scam and a total meme. Why people still buy into the quantum bullshit is beyond me. It's a math trick that explains some things we currently don't understand. That's it. Media and (((scientists))), not to be confused with actual scientists, push this bullshit to fabricate a branch of science that seem "cool" and "out there" but when you look at the maths you see it for what it is; a giant mess of workarounds that doesn't explain anything, but makes accurate enough predictions for most uses.

>inb4 SSDs wouldn't work without quantum physics
No, SSDs don't work because of magical quantum bullshit. The maths tells us they work but we don't currently understand /the physical manifestation/ of that math. Quantum mechanics just describes relationships between physical objects we don't understand. The relationships are approximations, not reality. Just because it looks like an electron can change the past, or just because it looks like fullerene can be in two places at the same time, just because it looks like particles sometimes pop onto the other side of an insurmountable energy barrier /doesn't mean that's actually the reality of the situation/.

Don't fall for the quantum meme.