/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11941252]

How do we fix the education system /sci/?

[Anonymous No.11941255]

By killing half the professors and threatening the other half with the same fate unless they work on things which have a measurable impact on the economy.

[Anonymous No.11941261]

Discourage bugman professions (CS, finance, etc)
More funding for the arts
Get competent English teachers instead of the babysitters that we have
Push heavier reading loads
Eliminate testing and homework

[Anonymous No.11941264]

Discourage bugman professions (CS, finance, etc)
Discourage specialization
More funding for the arts
Get competent English teachers instead of the babysitters that we have
Push heavier reading loads
Eliminate testing and homework

[Anonymous No.11941267]

Will an education system even be necessary? You can be an autodidact and out-compete students from the most posh schools out there in any standardised test. All it takes is consistency and a three-digit IQ score.

And yes, it's all about standardised tests at the end of the day.

[Anonymous No.11941273]

Discourage bugman professions (CS, finance, etc)
Discourage specialization
More funding for the arts/humanities
Get competent English teachers instead of the babysitters that we have
Push heavier reading loads
Eliminate testing and homework

[Anonymous No.11941282]

>>11941252
In America, it would likely be the best for us to tear down public education entirely and start from scratch. That's not realistic, though. I have some more feasible suggestions:
>break up teachers unions, or make it illegal for teachers to strike. the education of children should not be allowed to be held hostage by people (rightfully) wanting more money for their job. The time when people are able to absorb knowledge the easiest is childhood, and stopping education is undeniably bad for their futures
>put more focus on math and science. theres no reason why the average person in public education should take more history and english classes than math or science
>encourage problem solving skills, and stop teaching math as this rigid structure without any context whatsoever
>teach more theoretical/pure math and sciences. this is difficult because so much of theoretical math and science requires years of studying applied math/science, but it could be done with certain subjects
>when teaching applied math and science, teach some of the real world applications and have examples from a real world. asking a question about the numbers of apples Johnny has is so far detached from reality you might as well drop the scenario altogether
>have longer class times, but also longer breaks between classes
>have public school be 4 days a week, but 10 hours long. students would have an extra day off to absorb the knowledge they learned, but have more uninterrupted instruction time
>hire more teachers so the teacher:student ratio decreases
I also haven't thought any of these solutions through, so they could have really bad consequences. Math and science are really fucking cool, but if the only exposure you have to them is from the public education system, I 100% understand why someone would say that they hate them

[Anonymous No.11941288]

>>11941282
You managed to not come up with a single good idea. Quite the feat actually.

[Anonymous No.11941295]

>>11941282
Another idea I just thought of:
>shorten, or altogether remove, the idea of summer vacation. it used to have a purpose, but nowadays, that purpose has disappeared completely and is just a long break where kids forget half the stuff they learned the previous year. have more breaks during the year to compensate

[Anonymous No.11941296]

>>11941288
>You managed to not come up with a single good idea. Quite the feat actually.
>>I also haven't thought any of these solutions through, so they could have really bad consequences
I literally admitted that all of these could be bad ideas

[Anonymous No.11941301]

>>11941252
NEUROLINK

[Anonymous No.11941309]

>>11941252
Unironically intelligence based sorting at early ages

[Anonymous No.11941406]

>>11941252
Teach the smart kids, shoot the rest.

[Anonymous No.11941428]

>>11941282
all of these are awful

[Anonymous No.11941453]

>>11941252
Eugenics
also inb4 throw more money at it

[Anonymous No.11941536]

>>11941252
Bring back classical education

[Anonymous No.11941598]

>>11941252
>How do we fix the education system /sci/?

find the people who are trying to clandestinely destroy education, and remove them from power.

simple as.

[Anonymous No.11941632]

>>11941252
The jews...

[Anonymous No.11941906]

>>11941252
its almost always dropout retards that are spouting “education system bad” meme

[Anonymous No.11941908]

>>11941273
schools are government funded nursery homes imo. The education works as it is designed.

[Anonymous No.11941919]

>>11941252
end textbook commercialization
end teachers unions
increase student to teacher ratio to 16:1
remove propaganda and historical nonsense from education
create separate schools for gifted 2SD, midwit 1, -1 sd and retarded -2 SD students
outlaw television and movies for children
outlaw vidya for children
crackdown on student alcoholism
crackdown on drug use
make schooldays ~10 hours
make school 6 days a week
fire dogshit teachers
make sure teachers have an iq above 110 and above 120 for HS

everything I just described is impossible in USA though.

[Anonymous No.11941944]

>>11941598
>remove collegeboard from education
Never gonna happen. They're too big to fail!

[Anonymous No.11941948]

>>11941267
I was just about to post this. Encourage and foster a culture of self-learning. Abolish the public school system past elementary school. Replace public school teachers with the Internet. Replace high school diplomas with a list of certifications for modules completed by each student. Bring in teachers/tutors if and only if you need outside experts to help you refine your skills or your knowledge in a particular subject. Above all, venerate the autodidact.

[Anonymous No.11941957]

>>11941948
>Encourage and foster a culture of self-learning.
the do-gooders at school have been trying this for decades, nobody respects them. Educators for the most part are not "cool," and the school has a liability to project a certain safe and positive image to satisfy helicoptor parents.

If you want to promote self-learning, it has to be with methods people respect. From an outside source. Make it clear that knowledge = power, that there's crazy (even dangerous) shit you can do with basic lerning, and that ignorance is just begging to get fucked over.

[Anonymous No.11941959]

>>11941919
>>11941282
you guys are autists most of these are awful. don't talk about things outside of being a coding monkey.

[Anonymous No.11941972]

>>11941252
Go back to reasonable standards and enforce them. Get rid of the people who won't, and the people who insist that the standards are innately white, colonialist, or biased against blacks. Protect teachers who enforce the standards when students lash out at them. Filter out the students who refuse to read and work -- ignore their complaints.

[Anonymous No.11942044]

>>11941252
Pay teachers more. The end.

Teachers are paid shit. Therefore only people without better options teach. Ignorant, lazy or stupid? Become a teacher. Obscenely ignorant, lazy and stupid? Become a gym teacher or coach.

Occasionally you get people that have talent and passion who get trapped in teaching due to unfortunate circumstances in life, but not often.

[Anonymous No.11942049]

>>11941959
Seconded, but what do you expect? They're the product of public education.

[Anonymous No.11942055]

>>11942049
they're a product of /pol/ and video gaymes
>hurr just KILL everybody I don't like!
>durr just REMOVE bad ppl and everry1 will be gud :)
literal children. I hope none of them are over 18.

[Anonymous No.11942079]

Give the same opportunities to everybody instead of the same results to all - get rid of Cummin Core, No Pedo Left Behind, Increase School Choice and eliminate entrance based off of zoning.

[Anonymous No.11942109]

>>11941252
Start actually using scientifically verified concepts like spaced repetition in institutions instead of having syllabuses based on educator's intuition.

Besides that there's not a lot to be done currently to improve education (I'm not talking about political issues specific to certain reasons just the institution of education itself). We haven't had a big breakthrough in educational bandwidth since the written word, retention is where we have the most potential for improvement with current tech.
Written word lets ideas reach more people -> printing press massively boosts the number of people it can reach -> because more people have the opportunity to read more people learnt to read but bandwidth remains the same -> internet allows for more interconnectivity but still limited to reading text (videos and audio are both slower).
If tech like pic related actually manages to do the shit it memes about it would be the next step.

[Anonymous No.11942137]

>>11942109
>instead of having syllabuses based on educator's intuition.
this. most of the shit decisions in public schools are being made by "educational professionals" with PhD's and nearly zero teaching experience. Common core is just one example of misguided ideas being pushed by idiots.

[Anonymous No.11942139]

>>11941295
>the idea of summer vacation. it used to have a purpose,
So what is the purpose and why isn't it needed?

[Anonymous No.11942142]

>>11941919
You just described a very good way of making half the children commit suicide aswell as usher in a lifeless society.

[Anonymous No.11942249]

>>11941252
You impose an external threat that galvanises the population to reform it and make it actually fit for purpose.

[Anonymous No.11942253]

>>11942142
what did children do before modern times? kill themselves because no vidya, no alcohol, no movies or tv? You realize this is how most students function in countries like China or Japan.

[Anonymous No.11942256]

>>11941632
/pol/ on /sci/ /pol/ on /g/ /pol/ on fucking /int/, /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ kys back to /pol/ and fuck yourself

[Anonymous No.11942257]

>>11941252
>All children should have a compulsory IQ test and a physical fitness test at the age of 4 or 5
>The high scorers in the IQ test should be sent to specialized schools with more rigourous curriculum
>The high scorers in the physical test should be sent to military schools with regular curriculum but with greater focus on fitness
>The average and low scorers in any of these tests can attend normal schools or do whatever they want
>Hold a these tests again at the age of 13 at which point students will be allowed to change tracks.
I'm only joking lol

[Anonymous No.11942267]

>>11942253
>You realize this is how most students function in countries like China or Japan.
You should see all the problems their younger generations now face.

[Anonymous No.11942270]

>>11942257
>>The high scorers in the physical test should be sent to military schools with regular curriculum but with greater focus on fitness
and how does physical fitness benefit society in terms of economics? The only thing that seems to matter in modern society.

[Anonymous No.11942296]

>>11941282
based

[Anonymous No.11942305]

>>11941252
you forgot "american"

[Anonymous No.11942341]

>>11941252
Get rid of standardised testing and university entrance exams.

[Anonymous No.11942389]

>>11942139
Helping on farms.
Because people aren't mostly living on farms anymore.

[Anonymous No.11942516]

>>11941255
>they work on things which have a measurable POSITIVE impact on the economy.
They have an impact on the economy, just profoundly negative upon long-term retrospect.

[Anonymous No.11942977]

>>11942044
>>11941453
>also inb4 throw more money at it

[Anonymous No.11944490]

>>11941273

This

[Anonymous No.11944501]

Stop valuing test scores so heavily, and start valuing individual accomplishments and progressions.

[Anonymous No.11944506]

>>11941252
More structure

[Anonymous No.11944508]

>>11944501
>implying test scores are not a measure of accomplishment

[Anonymous No.11944509]

>>11941273
based cultural marxist

[Anonymous No.11944511]

>>11944508
When you can copy and have cheat sheets, they really aren't. What good is getting an A or a B if you aren't actually learning anything from it?

[Anonymous No.11944534]

>>11942139
So people wouldn't have to sit together in hot rooms. Considering we have AC now, this isn't a problem anymore.

[Anonymous No.11944601]

>>11942267
So before ~1970 murican kids just shot themselves when they couldn't watch television, play vidya or etc. And you're the one calling me childish.

[Anonymous No.11944638]

>>11941252
High school teachers want to hang themselves because teenagers are cancer. University teachers are there for tax breaks or because access to Academia and teaching is an afterthought. People generally don't give a shit. And any time a teacher wants to do something there's an insane amount of red tape, so it kills any incentive.

[Anonymous No.11944651]

>tfw would have liked to go into astronomy or teaching except academia and education in general is such a hellish fucking cesspool
forestry it is for me bros...

[Anonymous No.11944841]

>>11941453
This. Nobody else here gets it. You cannot "educate" the majority of the population. At best you can train them to do things like ie be code monkey. You quite literally cannot teach the foundation of critical thinking --- the drive to think critically. It's based on temperament and intelligence and is either there or not.

So the only problem with the education system is that it's too geared towards the uneducatable, and is a babysitting and training institution and not really an educational institution. We basically don't even have an education system. So there's nothing to fix other than this "schooling" institution. The fix for this is to cut the shit and make sure only those who should be there are there. Then we actually build an education system and put the right people there.

All this is on the student side. Academia is a distinct entity with its own problems. Those problems are: literally favoring shitty people and discriminating agaist good people for getting in, having to teach high school classes to 13-16th graders, and overall just the existence of the current political regime in academia and how it ruins research, critical thinking, personal quality, and freedom of expression.

Really it's a people problem. "1 quick trick will make everything better" solutions like more math or whatever might be ok but are really just bandaids on bullet wounds... at best they serve as a de facto filter against gender studies students

[Anonymous No.11944844]

>>11941295
This is fucking stupid, legitimizes work-to-the-boneism and misses the actual problem. See >>11944841 . Summer break does not even register on the list of things that explain why the system is shit

[Anonymous No.11944858]

>>11944844
t. member of the teachers union mafia

[Anonymous No.11944877]

>>11944638
(((teenagers)))
Teens are cancer just like how (((boomers))) are responsible for the Hart Cellar act, right retard?

[Anonymous No.11944883]

>>11944858
Naw just someone who thinks the fix for a shitty system isn't allowing it more toilet time

[Anonymous No.11945310]

>>11941252
Its easier to ruin something than fix it. Which is why you shouldnt bother untill they are gone.

[Anonymous No.11945345]

>>11941252
Make education a tiered, chargeable service then tax it

[Anonymous No.11945351]

>>11944883
t. high school teacher that enjoys buttfucking her students

[Anonymous No.11945402]

>>11941252
K-12
>teach basic life skills
>Make sure the teachers actually know what they're talking about before hiring them
>Get rid of the prison like schedules for highschool where you can get a detention for going to the bathroom at the wrong time
>no mandatory subjects after completing middle school
>Teach computer programming
>Get the lazy and powertripping teachers out
>Less group projects
>National curriculum, especially for english courses where half the teachers just have you read whatever YA books they like
>Fix the grading system so that the graduating class doesn't have 30 kids with a 4.0 GPA
>Get rid of the class rank system, it does nothing but encourage students to fight over the difference of a few decimal places on a grade
>limit the amount of holocaust/slavery/civil rights education to a reasonable amount rather than have it be half of the books you read
>get rid of all the busywork
>ban private schooling
>Don't have the valedictorian and special ed kids in the same courses
>Stop encouraging dumbasses to go to university
University:
>Fix the admissions process so that colleges don't have to choose who to admit out of thousands of equally qualified students
>Publicize all universities
>Stop the retarded in/out of state tuition system
>Don't force students to pay for stupid amenities that they don't want
>More federal financial aid, less means testing (there are people with way more money than you who got way more FASFA money because they paid someone to teach them how to lie to the government)
>make it so that bad students get bad grades
>get rid of gen ed requirements

[Anonymous No.11945719]

>>11941282
Absolutely based. Only brainlets dislike this.

[Anonymous No.11945728]

>>11941252
Step 1. Get rid of Anglo education
Step 2. Get back Prussian education
Step 3. Quench the inevitable chimpouts
Step 4. Profit

[Anonymous No.11946030]

>>11941252
Make selectable online courses like udemy part of school
Change what is being taught to be actually useful in contemporary society like cutting down a lot on what is currently being taught in e.g. physics and maths and including health education and media literacy
Replace religion with ethics which could include religion

[Anonymous No.11946046]

>>11945402
your "fixes" to university would reinforce the idea that college is another 4 years of daycare, just with more alcohol

[Anonymous No.11946053]

You outsource it to Big Education Inc.

[Anonymous No.11946055]

I'm trying to become a polymath renaissance genius (more like the renaissance ideal, but even the most mediocre of renaissance polymaths would be considered a XXI century genius).

Shit's fucked.
It's impossible to educate the mass (hivemind) of society.

It's a waste of time of me trying to make my relatives to listen to bach, beethoven, read shakespeare, read philosophy.

It's like cooking the most fine food from a world renowed chef, and use it to feed swines.
It's not the fault of the swines they can't eat such food, or is the fault of the chef to produce really fine food, just to be wasted on some animal.

That doesn't mean public education didn't solve and helped what It was designed during the napoleonic wars by prussians to have an educated population (by XIX century standarts) which mean it was designed to teach basic shit like learning how to read and maybe do basic aritmetic.

Later in the end of the XIX century and like early XX century was made as a mass production facility to try to create an educated mass of working technicians for the T model and the factories of the late XIX century.

So, no, public education has been a success in the goals it was designed for, which was to teach basic literary skills and have a trained mass of workers for the factories.

Dunno what else do u expect with a system with two design goals.
It was never designed to create original thinkers, intelectuals or artists.

Also, there's was not an alternative in history until modern online education with computers.

[Anonymous No.11946771]

>>11941252
Get bureaucracy (i.e. excessive testing) out of the schools, and refund gifted programs.

[Anonymous No.11946791]

>>11946771
Also, start schools at later times to account for the change in circadian rhythm that comes with puberty, take out the vending machines, offer healthier alternatives in the cafeteria, and allow a recess period.

[Anonymous No.11946793]

>>11946771
>>11946030
>>11945728
Defeatists, the answer is to 1. break up teachers unions 2. get rid of the idiots in education. Thats it. Accept the scientific reality of intelligence and purge corruption. Step 3 is eugenics which is how you actually make society smarter.
Half baked answers like muh testing, muh Prussians, muh whatever are gay and dumb.
Good posts:
>>11945402
>>11944841
>>11946055
Not all of these are great but common themes are get rid of shitty teachers and get rid of shitty students, thereby accepting the reality of intelligence. As for the other reccomendations, mostly gay nonsense that won't change anything and will just make school more annoying.

[Anonymous No.11946797]

Decouple it from government dependence. At the very least, end FAFSA and the government grant system, it's perverting the entire nature of higher ed.

[Anonymous No.11946808]

>>11946797
>muh government
Not a real issue, see >>11946793

[Anonymous No.11946853]

>>11946793
I agree with what you're getting at, which is why I said to refund gifted programs, but I believe a lot of the problems that stem from the education system is abysmal diet and lack of sleep as mentioned here >>11946791.

[Anonymous No.11946860]

>>11946808
>muh only educate 1% of the population

[Anonymous No.11946861]

>>11946808

>Pumping trillions in government loans and grants into the education system, resulting in an inflation rate of 1,000% over the past 30 years and a generation of lifetime debt slaves, isn't a real issue

Shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.11946957]

>>11942977
>>11942044

No not throw more money at it. Reallocate it. You've got teachers making 30k and athletic programs worth half a million or more.

If you want to fix the problem, make education the top priority; and put your funding toward securing talent.

[Anonymous No.11946970]

>>11941252
It should be personalised teaching by a super AI. Teaching each kid to the arbitrary standard at their own pace.

[Anonymous No.11947643]

In America public education is just a total mess, I don't even know if it could be fixed.
Half the teachers either barely understand the subject they teach and just have you copy a power point presentation into a notebook while they just sit in the back of the room doing nothing (I had a teacher in junior year who would just give the class crossword puzzles while he would be watching a movie at his desk). There is almost to sorting by intelligence whatsoever,since almost anybody could get an A on every test with half an hour or so of studying. It really goes to show when the people with top rankings in the class get horrendous scores on the SAT, which is the only objective (albeit still flawed) test you ever take in highschool

[Anonymous No.11947678]

>>11941252
K-12:
more tracking. smart/motivated students in separate schools from dumb/disruptive students. all students learn as fast as they can and mental health crisis are checked for and dealt with. make language arts classes actually useful and focus on rhetoric instead of copying essay outlines. fire bad teachers at will. eliminate stupid rules for high-performing track students.
Uni:
eliminate affirmative action based on demographics on economic status + personal issues as well as overall achievement. more classes on major subject and less gen ed bullshit.

[Anonymous No.11947740]

>>11947678
>>11947643
>>11946970
>>11946797
>>11946793
More autism. Stop talking and stick to being a coding monkey. You are a retard.

[Anonymous No.11947744]

>>11941267
I study CS
>inb4 hur dur
and I feel that my degree only exists because Universities want to make money, and a camp/technical-school hybrid can train me to start a job and personal projects - this being the magnum opus for any CS fag, because experience/projects in this profession are ten fold more important then Uni, grades etc.

[Anonymous No.11948197]

>>11941282

Fuck you. Teachers should be able to strike. Your kid missing two weeks of school isn't going mean anything in the long run.

[Anonymous No.11948213]

It's mainly in earlier stages
>Reduce all non-conceptual teaching (history, geography, etc.) To maybe 1 class a week - rote learning can be done later
>Focus on teaching of mathematics, science, philosophy/logic/crit-thinking, and language (native and foreign) as these topics rely on conceptual understanding which is easier to ingrain in a younger mind
>>And not just sums and shit - teach them calculus, trigonometry, derivation, the scientific method, etc. from an early age. They can handle it with the right guidance.
>More recess - there will be time when you cut out the rote-learning bloat

[Anonymous No.11948366]

I think the ideal future would be where students just do all of their courses online where they won't be held back by the slowest classmate and they can study what interests them. The school buildings would just be for supervision and socialization

[Anonymous No.11948376]

>>11941255
By not allowing niggers in the school.

[Anonymous No.11950225]

>>11941252

By kicking /pol/ users off of sci.

[Anonymous No.11950226]

>>11941255
Brainlet tier response.

[Anonymous No.11950233]

>>11941273
Eliminate testing is a big one for me. teaching to a standardized test is not productive, and is a huge drain on time. Furthermore, test results are just used as political leverage to further defund schools.

[Anonymous No.11950252]

stop forcing tax payers at gun point to fund it.
problem solved

[Anonymous No.11950257]

>>11950252

[Anonymous No.11950258]

>>11941252
Solving the Jewish Question.

[Anonymous No.11950267]

>>11941252
stop taking five years to teach kids addition subtraction multiplication and division

[Anonymous No.11950650]

>>11950257
slave

[Anonymous No.11950655]

>>11950267
racist
>>11950258
racist

[Anonymous No.11950754]

>>11941252
Imo, the laziest and non-radical "fix" to pull off in the short-term would be to flip how we do homework.

Instead of going to school for lectures and going home to do work, students should watch lectures at home and go to school to do work where the professor is there to answer questions and clarify things for them.

[Anonymous No.11951973]

>>11941919
>make schooldays ~10 hours
>make school 6 days a week
How to make sure students learn literally nothing: the post

[Anonymous No.11951998]

>>11941252
By only teaching core subjects in elementary and highschool I.E English, Math, and P.E should be the ONLY subjects allowed to be taught in PUBLIC SCHOOL between grades 1 and 12. If you want to learn other subjects you take private tutoring or some shit outside of normal school hours. Then you choose a different field in college to specialize in.

All other subjects besides English and Math are unnecessary for children to learn and simply eat up time. Useless garbage.

[Anonymous No.11952005]

>>11941919
What do you mean by crackdown retard? How should people crack down on those issues retard?

[Anonymous No.11952008]

>>11941273
I remember my highschool english teacher was some dumb bitch ex cheerleader who spent the majority of her time talking to her female students about non-school related shit over actually teaching. She'd just give us test papers at the beginning of every day then grade them. I don't think she even taught us anything at all.

[Anonymous No.11952050]

More funding. More funding. More funding.

Staff need to be better paid, including teachers and all other support staff. There should be more teachers, and more support staff. Equipment, buildings, grounds, resources, tech... all of it needs more funding.

There are literally a million ways that you could improve education with more funding. You don't realise until you work in a public school just how drastically starved for proper funding the whole system is.

[Anonymous No.11952094]

>>11945402
>>More federal financial aid
This is what killed the rigor of admissions and massively inflated the tuition of university education in the first place

[Anonymous No.11952125]

>>11950655
Not racist because niggers are another species.