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/sci/ - Science & Math


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11895238 No.11895238 [Reply] [Original]

Is STEM a lucrative career path in 2020?

>> No.11895289

Yes but only in EE.

>> No.11895299

>>11895289
Thnx for reinforcement.

T. 27y/o mathlet entering for EE bachelor's

Wish me luck frens. Starting my pre algebra class this fall. I just enjoy building circuits

>> No.11895309
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11895309

Yes but only in CS.

Fields like EE are basically dead at this point.

>> No.11895316

>>11895238
all my siblings majored in STEM. The only one of us who makes any money majored in CS.

>> No.11895317

No, globalism fucked us over. You are now competing against pajeets to get a job in your own country

>> No.11895322

>>11895317
So what's a better career path then?

>>11895316
>>11895309
I was doing CS but my ADHD is too much so I dropped it.

>> No.11895336

>>11895238
I'm gonna go work at a bookstore after my PhD to unwind for a bit

>> No.11895343

Only in CS or engineering IF the degree is used to go to technical sales/consultancy. Working as a engineer (not in the software field and not sales/consultancy) or any other STEM occupation has a complete shit reward/effort ratio.

>> No.11895355
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11895355

>>11895343
This guy has the big facts. Sales engineering and consulting are both legit.

>> No.11895362

>>11895238
Prostitution is literally the most lucrative career.
Prove me wrong.

>> No.11895363

>>11895362
Not very fulfilling

>> No.11895380

>>11895238
Nope

>> No.11895387

>>11895363
Lucrative or fulfilling. You can only pick one

>> No.11895407

>>11895387
gigacope

>> No.11895409

>>11895238
Yeah it's fine. You have to understand that the kiddies on this board are those filled with promises that a major would lead directly to a job.
It comes down to what you want to do. Do you want to do humanities, STEM, or something inbetween? Would you like your degree to be related to what you want a career in, or do you want it to give you general experience and internship opportunities that segue into a different path? Are your interests, at the moment, more vocational or more industry focused? Do you have any target income bracket by 25, and if so, what is it? These are the questions you have to answer before anybody can really help you make a decision.

>> No.11895410

>>11895299
Based, it's never too late.

>> No.11895412

>>11895299
good luck anon. there are other paths in stem that are lucrative, but EE is a good path. focus in your signals and communication classes

>> No.11895414

>>11895343
A Phd in EE will open you any door.

>> No.11895417

>>11895289
Bullshit my EE degree didnt help

>> No.11895423

>>11895414
wait, this isn't exactly true. A PhD in EE opens a lot of doors into industry research and heading research engineering teams, but it closes entry level and intermediate positions.
In general, the PhD in any stem field launches you either into research or into working with different engineering teams (R&D for new hardware, software, methods, etc.). It does not let you fundamentally separate from research, unless you drop to entry level software engineering, which you can do with any bachelors in STEM

>> No.11895441
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11895441

>>11895238
I heard aerospace engineering and applied mathematics are the new STEM degrees that are popular these days.

>> No.11895446
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11895446

>>11895441
Aerospace is the dead-est engineering field out there.

Applied math is quite good though.

>> No.11895454

>>11895238
Do not go into stem if you are only in it for the money

>> No.11895464

>>11895441
>aerospace engineering
About 2 generations ago, aero was a graduate concentration after you did mechanical in undergrad, and it shows based on how much material they rush through. Still, if you like fluids, you get good grades / like fluids, and you work on internships early, it's a good field.
>applied mathematics
I mean, applied mathematics is used a lot in the industry from algorithms to engineering to quant work. However, it's not a great undergrad option. You know less math than a pure math major. However, you'll know marginally more applications than those in physics, engineering, math, and (good) CS programs. In general, the time in which you learn enough mathematics and applications to actually be useful happens in grad school for a PhD.
So there's a lot of great applied mathematics work and research, it's worth your while either doing a pure mathematics major or doing engineering, (good) CS, physics, etc..

>> No.11895467
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11895467

>>11895454
Bullshit. I did and make a ton of money. You just can't be a brainlet or follow the advice of the retards here.

>> No.11895494
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11895494

>>11895309
>>11895467

>> No.11895514

>>11895238
you will find many people here are interested in STEM for $$$ and prestige. That, and they've convinced themselves that they're categorically different than artfags and humanities students because of salary.
Money's important but stroking your dick because <undergrad major> is stupid

>> No.11895548
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11895548

>>11895514
People like that generally don't go too far. Like, generally into lmao80k meme jobs after graduating.

If you aren't making 200k+ after getting your bachelor's you're an abject failure.

>> No.11895567
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11895567

>>11895548
>>11895446
imagine the smell

>> No.11895581

>>11895299
good luck bro

>> No.11895649

>>11895238
>six figure loans
Imagine going to a doctorate program that doesn't pay for you to be there

>> No.11895772

>>11895238
>lucrative

fucking shit capitalism

>> No.11895803

>>11895289
>>11895417
if all else fails there's always software

>>11895322
cs makes six figures starting now but it's the most oversaturated field ever because every single fucking person ever is trying to get into it

>>11895548
pretentious csfag detected. we just gotta admit we got lucky as shit

>> No.11895805

>>11895343
>>11895355
generally people would want consultants to have some experience. you'll probably be industryfagging for a while starting out unless you start building a freelancing rep right now

>> No.11895827

>>11895238
I can't tell you exactly which path is lucrative, but I can tell you which is not. I studied petroleum engineering because I what I wanted to study wouldn't make me any money, this is especially true because I live in a country where oil industry is about the only big industry. Even still, the P & G industry has been in decline for a few years and right now it's contracting due to coronavirus, but even before things weren't looking great.
If you live in a first-world country and have someone inside a good company who can get you a position inside, then it's good money. One of the highest paying jobs there is.
If you live in a third world country, but have someone inside, maybe try to do a different degree that could get you into the industry, but still have applications to other industries.
If you live in a third world country and have no connections, under no circumstances should you study something as specialized as petroleum engineering, which is what I did.

In general, I think you should study something commercial with a vast field of applications such as Electrical engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Chemical engineering and perhaps Computer Science; statistics might be a good choice too, you're going to have a harder time to land a job, but statistics is becoming more and more popular so it might be good to have that.

>> No.11895838

>>11895827
Norway?

>> No.11895846

>>11895409
I just want to make a lot of money and retire early, but I'm kind of socially retarded

>> No.11895851

>>11895309
You do realize most EE are adequately prepared for any software job right? I studied EE and now I'm currently a data scientist, which is probably as far from hardware as a career could probably get.

>> No.11895916

>>11895846
Then EE, CS, industrial engineering, and BAIT would be the majors you may be interested in.

>> No.11895949

>>11895827
how much does PE even pay?
it always tops the charts as "highest paying jobs" but the median salaries never seem that high

>> No.11896463

>>11895238
>finish my med school for free at 23 in my yuropoor county, go to America and make 300k+ a year
And there is nothing you can do to stop me

>> No.11896540

>>11895238
I couldn't get a decent paying career with two degrees compared to the accounting job I held in the past. One in Biology and the other Physics. Now I'm going to grad school for CS so maybe I'll get a good career from having a higher degree.

>> No.11896560

>>11896540
Biology and physics is a meme

allegedly

>> No.11896566

>>11895316
Why does genetics work like that. In my family, only my uncle managed to get a stem degree, everyone else, including me, is just too low IQ and a failure despite trying (I studied more than anyone else I know, my uncle only studied 2 hours per day, I study 8 hours per day, yet failed almost all classes and got kicked out).

But then you have families where everyone is high IQ and gets a stem degree fairly easily and most of the time doesn't even bother to mention it. I would tell everyone I know that I have a stem degree cause I'm not intellectually able to understand tech stuff or programming and hit my intellectual abilities already with calc 2 (which got me kicked out after three failed tries), that would be for me like earning a billion dollar per year.

I always thought genetics are random, but it seems like some generations have more luck than others when it comes to IQ.

>> No.11896583

>loans
College is free if you're top student or you pay some minimal amount otherwise. This loan/debt shit just has to stop already, not everybody lives in burgerland.

>top 10 uni
Another american bullshit implying that you'll somehow understand stuff better if you fork out thousands upon thousands at "prestigious" uni.

>> No.11896600

>>11896566
I'm dropping college because I probably have ADHD and can't sit still during my zoom state university lectures. Yeah life sucks

>> No.11896614

>>11895355
god i'd have some fun with her

>> No.11896620

>>11896463
Where are you studying bro? And is your program just 5 years med school right after you leave secondary shool or what? Lucky for you

>> No.11896622

>>11896614
>tfw didnt get hard when i looked at that pic
Nofap all but cured my fat fetish, its never too late

>> No.11896638

Traditional STEM is a pure meme. Focus on the computational side of things then you're still employable.

>> No.11896642
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11896642

>>11896622
>tfw dont get hard when I look at anything

>> No.11896643

>>11896642
i get hard from literally any woman with tits and/or ass that comes within 5 feet of me. i have to suppress boners at the gym and bars constantly desu, and i jerk off 4 times a day like clockwork as well

>> No.11896661

>>11896643
feels bad/good man.

>> No.11896772

>>11896560
Well Biology did have a lot of post grad jobs to pick and choose from, but none of them paid more than my accounting career. I almost took a forestry job just because I like the outdoors but the rural town didn't have a university within a reasonable distance to earn a Masters/PhD and my wife is a linguist so there's not much she could do unless she spoke Spanish... As for Physics... I couldn't get any jobs. I applied to almost every major national lab in the US but no luck considering 99% of the positions want a PhD... There were some test engineers as well as systems and control positions but none of them paid that well. There's also radiation therapy that hires a lot of fresh physic undergrads but again the pay is poor. At least comparing to CS/traditional engineering.

>> No.11896778

The cool thing about a phd is you can learn about whatever you want. If you really don't want to learn it then it may not be worth your time. That being said, it also opens up teaching undergrad and graduate students. Which can be in demand even if you don't make a lot of money.

>> No.11896780

>>11896778
And it opens you up to research, which is pretty cool and can be very cross disciplinary

>> No.11896783

>>11895238
No that is just big tech propoganda pushed in order for them to hyper inflate their candidate pools.

>> No.11896790

>>11896783
This is somewhat true

>> No.11896802

>>11896583
>that you'll somehow understand stuff better if
That's not the reason people try to get into top universities

>> No.11897211

>>11895414
What part of the shit reward/effort ratio you didn't understand? Doing well in undergrad EE to get in a top/or decent Phd program then doing well in the Phd program is 10 years of your life working hard as fuck. 10 years of your best years (18~27) earning jack shit in a fucking lab. To what? Get a good'ish 6 figures income?

>> No.11897242

>>11895355
>sales
Most people here are autistic zoomers who only know tiktok and think they're holier than thou from getting a 130 on an online iq test. They don't even have friends let alone be able to sell to anyone.

>> No.11897261

>>11895238

Imagine being so retarded, you have to pay for you education...

>> No.11897271

>>11895309
>>11895417
How are people able to not earn money with an EE diploma?
I been on like 10-15 interviews in my life, only two rejected me, all with a really fucking good pay.

>> No.11897282

>>11897271
finding a job right now is kind of difficult if you didn't intern
also many of them make money but they seethe because they're getting eclipsed by cs grads

>> No.11897325

>>11897211
>Get a good'ish 6 figures income?
you're lucky if you even get that

>> No.11897328

>>11897211
>>11897325
if we're talking actual top 1% you'll be clearing 300k starting if you work in algo trading or HFT, 500k within a few years of working but those are unrealistic edge cases

>> No.11897332

>>11895238
Sounds good to me. I just want to learn shit and feel the excitement of discovery. If I have money for food and shelter, I'm good.

>> No.11897383

>>11897328
This actually a good career path. But as you noted you need to be among the 1%. To be an elite quant/EE grad you easily are 140+iq AND top 1% in the work ethic. Could EASILY get waayy richer opening a business. But whatever, being a quant is good money.

>> No.11897388

>>11897383
>Could EASILY get waayy richer opening a business
you need capital to run a startup, especially in hardware, much less certain and 500-600k is not a small amount of money
most people only are quants for a few years then they burn out
if you mean consulting you usually need some experience, and the exit for most startups is to get bought out or consult to big companies

>> No.11897395

I don't get what the fuck is all this bitching about pay?

What are we realistically looking at fresh off school? 60-100k?

Even at that pay on the low end we know is only temporary any company maintaining that low salary either justifies it by low cost of living being out in the middle of nowhere or if they're being Jews they're expecting a high turnover. Dont be an idiot basically.

Regardless you detached snowflake autists do understand the real average on the high end an american is making is between 38-42k. Middle management hitting the 45-50k barrier and the average "executive/ director" at 70k.

You people are just as deranged and detached from reality as these ultra rich and celebrities however they have a valid reason, yours is due to a mental illness. This is why every "normie" will tell you that an engineering degree makes big money because compared to average salaries nationwide 60k starting is ~43% higher than the average person. And anyone with half a brain cell knows they shouldn't stick around with a company paying that little unless it's a startup you believe in or had great benefits

>> No.11897399

>>11897395
>What are we realistically looking at fresh off school?
0, you need to get a job to get paid.

>> No.11897405

>>11897395
>What are we realistically looking at fresh off school? 60-100k?
depends on your field
most engineering is somewhere from 60-90k on average
CS is anywhere from 50-200k, it's entirely inconsistent. it's bimodal, i know as many people who made 60kish as 120kish, but very little in between

>> No.11897406

>>11895238
Yes, but only Civ, EE, Mining Eng. I know that for mining the field is under saturated because people don't want to travel. CS is super competitive, and you need to start studying while still in hs.

>> No.11897417

>>11897211
Wow, everything decision is based on money for Americans isn't it?

>> No.11897425

>>11896772
so was that with a bio/physics BSc?
You should know that pretty much every job in those fields require at least a masters or equivalent, finishing at BSc is for people who want the degree on their resume but not necessarily to continue working in that field.

>> No.11897426

>>11897395
>Middle management hitting the 45-50k barrier and the average "executive/ director" at 70k.
boomer hands typed this post

>> No.11897476

>>11897426
You dont believe me?

Look at the top fortune 500. The majority of the workforce are grunts making at/under 40k a year management doesnt do that much better, again dont believe me? Apply for a few positions or look at those job salary websites and you'll see (I know firsthand from actual job offers) that management salary normally hits ~12% higher of the top end of the entry level pay and that's based on the ~7 offers I've had. I dont hold a stem degree. I'm in accounting pursuing stem. But talking to various friends and listening to what their friends say, salaries get spread around. And yes, those are real averages. Your average person is not in lake union, they're in Tacoma (seattle) or in san Jose/mission district they're Oakland (sf) or manhattan they're queens (nyc). where everything is hyper inflated and all salaries, cost of living, etc. Is multiplied over 100% compared to the rest of the nation outside a these few neighborhoods because even in these cities like L.A and the various mentioned above, the average person is struggling, even management with their measly 40-50k salary.


Boomers need not apply because they purchased their major assets (homes) for pennies on the dollar. Doesn't change the reality of salaries in this nation.

>> No.11897493

>>11895238

Stem bachelors? yes
Stem PhD? no

>> No.11897497
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11897497

>>11895238
Just declare bankrupcy on your loan.
You don't have to be a slave for all your life, usury is Evil after all and since the USA is a christian country, usury is banned.

>> No.11897509

>>11897476
>lake union, they're in Tacoma
slu/eastlake are like 90% amazon workers

>Apply for a few positions or look at those job salary websites and you'll see (I know firsthand from actual job offers) that management salary normally hits ~12% higher of the top end of the entry level pay and that's based on the ~7 offers I've had.
where do you live? pay is extremely variant with costs of living, but regardless i cannot imagine management and execs making that little. my manager easily makes 2x what i do

that aside, if you're just in it for the money, you would want to be competitive. if the average in your context is 80k, you'd be underpaid at 60k

>> No.11897512

Why should I wage slave when I can publication slave?

>> No.11897518

>>11897497
>Just declare bankruptcy on your loan
Anon, I

>> No.11897519
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11897519

I'm gonna try to get a phd because I failed at life (i.e. I don't have anything better to do)

>> No.11897522

>>11897519
i want to quit my industry job and pursue academia but that seems like a bad idea

>> No.11897542

>>11897509
My original comment was on stem workers complaining about pay. So I see theres a confusion. When I say average salary, management and executive pay I mean average in all industries outside stem. Even Amazon grunt workforce is warehouse/logistics not AWS and other tech. Those warehouse people are making 15-18/hr that's average under 40k salary, the warehouse managers falling under the 45-50k rate I'm talking about. Even operations managers "executives" in the warehouse running the building hit 70-100k depending on experience.

I'm referring to the average person, not a stem person. Even then what I said is true. Stem workers outside the neighborhood do not make these Insane 100k+ salaries. I'm in las vegas and i know a few tech people starting capped at 65k

>> No.11897569

>>11897497
you can't declare bankruptcy on student loans.

>> No.11897586

>>11895238
Just to be curious, what are the possibilities in >Italy ?

>> No.11897590

>>11897542
we'll complain because we are comparing ourselves to our peers. i live in NY and i've met numerous people who make less than 70k in tech. it doesn't feel good making that much less than what your neighbors are

>Stem workers outside the neighborhood do not make these Insane 100k+ salaries.
entry level, maybe not. 100k is not a lot in medium cost of living areas for tech

>> No.11897733

>>11895838
Since when is Norway a third world country?

>> No.11897966

>>11897395
I expect 80k starting in Seattle area. Police make that much starting and they just need a HS diploma.

>> No.11898171

>>11897966
Police are overpaid, even then 80k isn't enough to live somewhere like south lake union unless you are going to bum it out with your lifestyle. Again not saying it's impossible but literally half your paycheck is going to a studio or 1bd. Assuming you don't have a partner bringing in at least equal salary. This is why most people live in Tacoma and commute to Seattle

>> No.11898188

>>11898171
at 2k/month you wouldn't be spending half your salary on your rent. also, you can find places in Seattle that are relatively livable for less than that.

t. Seattle metro born and raised and in STEM

>> No.11898298

>>11898188
Link me to apt. Under 1k in Seattle pls

>> No.11898321

>>11898171
CS/engineer degrees working at MS/Boeing/Amazon/SpaceX/Nvidia are the only ones starting above 100k for bachelor positions. If you're a chemist/biologist you'll be getting about 50k at entry in Seattle.

And the shitty part is that majority of tech positions at large companies are gotten through internships from top schools. They could give fuck all about WSU/UW students and god forbid you went to CWU/EWU/WWU

>> No.11898999

>>11895838
Guess again. Norway is not a third world country.

>>11895949
It really depends, it usually pays a lot in first world countries. For office jobs, you have production engineers, reservoir engineers, R&D engineers and they all go around 100k per year for junior engineers; for operations, you have service companies and they often pay a lot because the work is high-risk and usually involves travelling overseas or working in an offshore platform.

In third world countries, I think you can get around 1k per month in a good company, in a somewhat good country like Brazil or Mexico.

>> No.11899047

Hijacking this thread
I decided to go into accounting as an undergrad because it was a safe and stable option with a moderately decent income
I'm not particularly passionate about it though and my grades are suffering because of it
Should I just man up and power through it or should I consider going into stem

>> No.11899890

>>11895317
>>>/pol/

>> No.11899910

>>11899890
Except he's not wrong. Standards are always rising. 30 years ago my nearby uni would take people with 80% grades, now they all want 88% or more.

>> No.11899926

>>11895238
>"anon go to school for engineering you're smart and you'll make tons of money"
>spend 4 years getting a degree from a top engineering school in a highly competitive program
>make straight A's through hard work, no social life due to school
>everyone else makes straight A's through cheating
>get rejected for dozens of internships
>internships are all taken by people who have family relations with academic or management staff
>graduate, no job offers because no internships
>need 5 years experience for entry level positions
>tfw no 60k engineering job to pay off 15k student debt
>every entry level job taken by pajeet who works for 10$ an hour
>"you should have got a useful degree"

>> No.11899944
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11899944

>>11899926
Good thing I dropped out. Now I'm a full time NEET, and as long as I don't piss off mom I'm not likely to get kicked out

>> No.11899953

>>11899944
same thing happened to me, but I dropped out right as corona hit so at least I have an excuse I can use

>> No.11899961

Think about starting businesses not college or jobs

>> No.11900224

>>11899910
anti globalism used to be something associated with leftists.

>> No.11900240

>>11895410
either that or is always too late, 50/50... thats is better than blackgammon

>> No.11900245
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11900245

>>11899926
> he fell for the engineering meme
The only useful degree from a non-ivy in 2020 is CS.

>> No.11900299
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11900299

Should I change my career from programming to IT and business law? I am about to graduate college a year early but received no internships or work offers after applying to hundreds of companies from March to now. My parents have encouraged me to become a lawyer for God knows how long, and I've never found a field that I've felt as though I could master in my twenty years of life.
>most passionate about music, math, space, and architecture
>can't make any money in music or math
>space is almost a laughing stock
>architecture is a lost cause when I've never been able to draw
I like to be a leader but am never satisfied with collaboration in a team; I've always done my work either solo or at the helm of a project. Entrepreneurship seems like the obvious choice, but in what field? I feel lost and despondent.

>> No.11900499

>>11898999
That gets fucked over by the exchange rate. No South American country can compete with the dollar, and a $2k per month in Brazil would be one of the highest salaries, only attained if you're on the top/management level at the company or stacking diplomas in the mangled public sector.
I know that petroleum will get around BR$8k~10k (US$2k~) per month at Petrobras here, but that's on the really high paying side for a fresh graduate. Probably not that much for other positions, and not somewhere that doesn't suck it to the government.

>> No.11900541

>>11900299
If you have leadership skills you will get a job anywhere.
Everyone wants a baby sitter
I used to work as a chef and what i learned from that was is that no matter how smart i was no matter how more efficient i was i couldn't beat this single chef who was cooking for 30 years.
he could just do everything 10x the speed i could.

But he sucked at leading and couldn't understand group dynamics nor logistics so i got pushed up with a higher pay grade and better position.

Companies and institution want baby sitters who will wipe their ass more then they want skilled and competent workers.

>> No.11900550

>>11898171
>80k isn't enough to live somewhere like south lake union unless you are going to bum it out with your lifestyle.
i lived in SLU. you can definitely live there on 80k
80k takehome is 5200/month

apartments there are about 2k. bills are 200ish
if we assume you're terrible with money and blow 1k on useless shit every month, that still leaves 2000 a month

>> No.11900553

>>11898321
>They could give fuck all about WSU/UW students
UW is a top school. you're practically handed an msft or amazon internship if you went there

>> No.11900566

>>11898321
>Nvidia
nvidia has an office in seattle?

>> No.11900569

>>11895299
I went into EE when I was 25. Find a good study group and you'll be fine

>> No.11900581

am i the only CSfag who sometimes regrets not pursuing EE?
i make triple what I would have if i were an EE, but i feel like would have worked on cooler shit in electrical

>> No.11900587

>>11898298
>under 1k
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>> No.11900595

>>11900587
i found apartments for 1200ish in really shitty parts of town when i was looking

>> No.11900610

>>11899926
>no social life
And this is where you fucked up.

>> No.11900701

>>11899944
Life as a NEET is comfy but your future prospects are shit. As the years pass by the less and less time you have to build up any experience anywhere and the less time you will have to find work once shit hits the fan

>> No.11900740

>>11899926
exact same thing happened to me except i had a social life - turns out all of my friends don't have jobs either lmao

>> No.11900741

>>11900701
I'd probably become a NEET if I made enough money with crypto to not have to work again.

>> No.11900836

>>11895851
>I studied EE and now I'm currently a data scientist
Anon, that's not really impressive.
First, data science is a huge field so there's no guarantee you're doing anything intellectually demanding.
Secondly, data science jobs mainly require a firm grasp of statistics. If you use python many ML tools are built in and hardly requires a deep understanding of the underlying theory/math. CS people don't normally train to become data scientist, they still get into it cause the field isn't too hard. It's a lot easier than software engineering.
Data science careers mainly attract mathematicians, statisticians, and computer scientist. Anyone with a firm understanding of stats can get into it, it's hardly impressive for an EE.

>> No.11900912

>>11895423
Why should a PhD in EE close doors to entry level positions?
If I want to get a PhD but then just go into industry as an entry level engineer, why is that forbidden for whatever reason?

>> No.11900927

>>11897519
Same.
I'm going to finish my undergrad at 33.
No kids, no gf, still a virgin.
Thinking about going into a masters and then a PhD program just because I hate myself and have nothing better to do.
Imagine my face when I get rejected to everything lol.

>> No.11900969

>>11900912
overqualification. people would assume you have no interest in the job

>>11900927
if you don't get paid don't go. it's a lot of money

>> No.11900972

>>11900740
>work at a faang
>offer to give referrals to anyone who wants them
>everyone turns it down because they're afraid of the interview

>> No.11900975

>>11895238
There is no lucrative career path in 2020. Everything is sick and fucked over. Become a communist.

>> No.11901019

>>11900969
>overqualification. people would assume you have no interest in the job
I don't understand. If I'm applying then I must have interest?
Or are you saying they will fear that I will leave soon?
>if you don't get paid don't go. it's a lot of money
I'm assuming that I will have to pay for my master's but I wouldn't pay for the PhD

>> No.11901059

>>11901019
>Or are you saying they will fear that I will leave soon?
kind of. they might think you're using them as a backup job waiting for a real research position
>I'm assuming that I will have to pay for my master's but I wouldn't pay for the PhD
do you mean using the masters as a way to get into phd? i'm CS so masters are a dime a dozen, phd you have to be top 1% to be relevant

>> No.11901070

>>11901059
Yes using the master's to get into a PhD.
I've heard it's a pretty good path if your undergrad isn't stellar.
Gives you a chance to do some research and get some more recommendations while proving that you are grad school material.

>> No.11901095

>>11900972
Me when I didn't know shit and literally couldn't do two sum optimally to save my life.

>> No.11901161

>>11901070
i just am not keen on taking what is presumably over 60k in debt for grad school

>>11901095
if you don't do the interview you fail by default

>> No.11901182

>>11897417
Yes. If you lived here, you would understand why.

>> No.11901184

>>11901161
>60K debt
I'd go school in-state.

>> No.11901258

>>11900553
>top school
>ranked 62 on usnews
>ranked 42 on wallstreet journal
>ranked 92 on niche
lmao is that your school or something

>> No.11901292

>>11901184
i did for undergrad. most masters programs are indian diploma mills and i don't know if my undergrad school is worth going to for a phd anymore

>>11901258
it's top 10 for comp sci

>> No.11901318

>>11900969
>overqualification. people would assume you have no interest in the job
So just don't tell them you have a PhD.
EZ

>> No.11901327

>>11901318
>so what have you been up to in the 4 years since you finished undergrad? doesn't seem like there's anything on your resume

>> No.11901349

>>11901327
>I was working on a PhD but unfortunately my mother fell very ill and I had to return home to support the family. After the ordeal was over I decided to just enter industry and start earning a regular income instead of continuing my graduate studies.

>> No.11901354

>>11901349
honestly the 4 year employment gap might look really bad, i don't know though
also your completed phd will show up on a background check

>> No.11901418

>>11901349
>didn’t take any work in the meantime
>relevant experience is behind you 4 years
>the story smells like bullshit anyone
>if he’s lying about these things in the interview room, then he’s likely not a great collaborative personality for our engineering team
>fresh grads applied for this position, have experience from a few months back, and are demanding less pay
“Sorry anon, you’re not a good fit”
Seriously what sort of fantasy do you have where interviewers have metal gear guard AI?

>> No.11901432

>>11901418
I'd just put down some bullshit job I did as work experience. Not hard to pad a resume dude.
>Yes as you can see on my resume I was working at UPS during that time
4 years is nothing btw.

>> No.11901467

>>11901161
It's a complete waste of time and brings unneeded stress when you do the phone screen and they give you literally any problem to solve and you barely know the basics. There's also a cooldown period if you fail.

>> No.11901528

>>11895851
Fuck off nigger I swear to god you EE autists shit up any masters degree with your blatant disregard for statistics

t. Statistician

>> No.11901539

>>11901528
Forgot to add that im currently in a data science masters program myself. Statisticians cuck every other degree there, and CSfags follow. The engineers should hang

>> No.11901587

>>11895289
>>11895299
My internship in EE got cancelled and I'm about to graduate with mediocre grades (~3.0) and I only really have 2 letters of rec from faculty, what should I do to get into a Master's program?

>> No.11901620

>>11901587
A good one? 90%ile GRE

Any accredited MSc? local state university

>> No.11901624

>>11901432
>then why do you think you still have the resume to work for us?
>why didn’t you look for remote work in your field?
>new grads have immediate experience and aren’t looking for the highest salary
>people 4 years out of school have more experience anyway
After the first 2 years after undergrad, you are considered no different than anyone else in the workforce and are compared to people with experience. It’s hard to pad a resume out when you’re bullshitting about not doing a PhD lmao

>> No.11901626

>>11901620
I just want to get a decent job in semiconductors, it seems like getting a master's is required for any of that.
Maybe I'll try the locks state uni route.

>> No.11901630

>>11901626
*Local

>> No.11901667

>>11900972
Wanna hit me up in 2 years when I need to negotiate for a raise at my current job? Working in HFT currently.

>> No.11901700

>>11901667
>hft
wouldn't you be making significantly more than what faang would offer?

>> No.11901702

>>11901620
does gre even mean anything for grad school now? average gre for good schools seems to be a 330

>> No.11901902

>>11901702
Depends on what you define as "good". Top 3/5/7/15/25/50 etc. Engineering and CS you'll probably not go wrong choosing a top 25 and can make things work out choosing any legitimate school if you're a go getter.

But GRE absolutely matters at the very top, especially if you lack publications/GPA/target undergrad/etc.

Some STEM programs don't require the GRE however such as most Biophysics programs, so it's worth to do the research, but you won't get into those programs without other positive attributes so while they don't require the GRE it's in your interest to take the test and do well to make yourself competitive.

>> No.11901914

>>11901902
>But GRE absolutely matters at the very top, especially if you lack publications/GPA/target undergrad/etc.
i was meaning more that like, if your gre is weak you could make up for it with the latter, but if your gre is high, it wouldn't mean anything at all
like i have a 3.1 gpa but a 331 gre with nothing else besides an industrial internship. someone with a 320 and actual qualifications would btfo me

>> No.11901954

I'm getting a master's in nuclear engineering. How are my prospective outlooks?

>> No.11901960

>>11901914
It really depends on the field and how they run admissions. If the field is test dominant such as Medical/Law/Business then you'd might actually be favorable having a 331 than the guy with WE (non prestigious) and a 320. And once you go down to top 25 they will absolutely take you in with a 99%ile GRE and everything else being weak.

>> No.11901970

>>11895238
Pic related is precisely why I went for industry immediately after my math degree. My plan is that after 2 years in the industry I can go get a master's and come back with doors open to me for senior positions. Do 2-3 years more then go for a Ph.D. and then when I come back I have the experience for top positions until I decide to retire to giving classes to undergraduate zoomers.

>> No.11901974

>>11901954
As with almost any graduate degree
>secure internship
good outlooks
>no internship but leaving academia
shit outlooks

>> No.11901984

>>11901960
>Medical/Law/Business
i thought those fields don't use the gre. they have their own tests, mcat/lsat/gmat i thought

>> No.11901988

>>11901974
I've got a year left before I graduate. Do I just look for internships or what?

>> No.11902005

>>11901984
Yes I meant comparatively. A "331" on the LSAT will get you into a good school.
Most business schools take both the GRE/GMAT though.

>>11901988
Absolutely you should have an internship and now is the time to get started as you'll be applying July-Nov

>> No.11902015
File: 78 KB, 853x1024, 1593924078323.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11902015

>engineers

>> No.11902049

>>11901700
I'm only an engineer, not a quant, and top of L4 bracket at G/FB is comparable, especially including signing bonus.

>> No.11902083

>>11902049
how many years of experience? upper end of L4 is probably more than 2 YOE
how is the hft field, any interesting problems at all?

>> No.11902087
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11902087

>>11901988
You really oughta get an internship if you want to go into industry friend.

If you think getting an internship's hard, try getting a job without one. My friends who never interned in college still don't have jobs.

>> No.11902101
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11902101

>>11902083
I'm writing very highly optimized scientific code mostly (as you probably guessed).

Money's good, but it's very high pressure and long hours. Honestly considering just going to SV for a more chill atmosphere.

>> No.11902113

>>11902101
sounds interesting
i'm working on dull shit. it's quite chill but i feel meaningless. and honestly i feel kinda stupid for working on such "easy" stuff.

>> No.11902125

>>11902113
Sounds like Google.

There's good and bad in that though. What I'm doing is very meaningful in the sense that business impact is high, but that's a blessing and a curse, too.

>> No.11902179

>>11902125
companies are big. there's intense teams and boring teams in all of them. honestly, i just don't like working. i'd want to work on my own things but that doesn't seem too viable

>> No.11902517

>>11901988
how can you get last year of grad school and not know this

>> No.11902544

>>11895446
What about medical enginerring or pharma engineering?

>> No.11902584

>>11895238
Yes

>> No.11902640

>>11895238
I don’t disagree but so many of these points are just incorrect.
PhDs are free, your pi doesn’t get credit for your work

>> No.11902700
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11902700

>>11902544
More meme engineering degrees for greedy universities to rob undergrads blind.

>> No.11902716

>>11895238
No, go to trade school.

>> No.11902731

>>11902700
are those actual degrees or specializations?
biomed is pretty standard although i have only heard bad things about going into it, would pharma literally just be chemistry?

>> No.11902736

>>11901528
get back to work calculating the failure rates on the shit I scraped together in a drunken binge 1 night you fucking walking calculato boy.

>> No.11902965

recent EE grad here, what should I get into that's not power?

>> No.11903052

>>11895851
>You do realize most EE are adequately prepared for any software job right?
Anyone can get a software job. My dad studied theater and now he's a SW developer. CS is not coding monkey camp, contrary to common belief. At least from my experience at a somewhat prestigious school.

>> No.11903154

>>11895238
>lucrative
Filtered. But here is some friendly advice: if you're looking for money, go to trade school. Cheaper, safer and easier than higher education.

>> No.11903156

>>11902965

Photonics

>> No.11903160

>>11903154
I disagree if you do CS/MechE and you take an internship. You'll most certainly come out ahead of trade school, and yes I'm including college debt as well as the four years forgoing a salary to attend school.

>> No.11903248

>>11895363
Maybe not fulfilling but certainly filling

>> No.11903253

>>11896600
Do they record them?
My uni records them so I watch them after the lecture at 2x speed.

>> No.11903260

>>11897242
might be correct. Still got a 134

>> No.11903264

>>11901019
>I don't understand. If I'm applying then I must have interest?
I can tell you from first hand experience that's not how it works. People are fucking morons, you will have to make it explicitly clear that you are interested in the position despite having a PhD, and even then they might have doubts.

>> No.11903265

>>11895336
sounds pretty comfy desu

>> No.11903268

I'm a physics/math double major with great grades, is picking up a chemistry minor worth it? Or would just telling any potential employer I have some chemistry experience be enough?

>> No.11903270

>>11895336
I worked at a library. You'll struggle dealing with retards all day long.

>> No.11903283

>>11901954
How hard is nuclear engineering? I'm about to finish a physics degree but wanted to do a masters in nuclear engineering.

>> No.11903286

>>11903160
>safer and easier
The difference is that you don't have to put as much effort if you go to trade school. If we consider that OP will be able to get a high GPA, have a good internship and build strong connections with industry, then uni is definitely for him. But we know that it is not always possible, and I sincerely don't think it's worth the effort if you're just in for the bucks. The market is highly competitive for engies, when compared to techs, so unless you're committed to excelling, or you already have a good starting point (you come from a financially successful family and/or have a strong nepotism network avaliable), I think that a bachelor's programme wouldn't be a good choice.

>> No.11903309

>>11895299
>pre algebra
Damn, you make me feel inspired lol.

t. 27 y/o mathlet failing precalc for the nth time.

>> No.11903320

>>11903309
wath Professor Leonard

>> No.11903351

>>11903309
>>11903320
I second prefessor leonard. Professor dave is good too. If you're willing to fork out money, I bought a year's subscription to "Calc workshop" which I didn't regret.

>> No.11903382

>>11895343
consulting sounds great and when you look at the rates they charge it sounds incredible.

Me and my brother bit the bullet and tried. We did well out of it for about 2 years. One thing people dont realise is how hard it is to get work and if it is we get a job its some real boring jobs where they pretty much just want you to sign a form to say something is ok. You put in your invoice and then some pleb in accounting refuses to pay you for 2 months because its higher than he/she thinks it should be. Consulting is 40% business development 40% arguing with companies to get your money and 20% doing work which their own people dont want to do.

weve done jack shit since the lockdown and now its impossible for us to find a job out there. We really dont know what to do with ourselves.

>> No.11903386

>>11903268
What job are you hoping for?
You're missing some key information in your question.

>> No.11903414

>>11903309
what you fail to grasp is being taught to 18yrs olds, and they do not fail.
at this point, if you really dont like the idea of becoming a truck driver, just commit suicide

>> No.11903421

>>11897395
This. Everyone just needs to accept that at the moment unless you have something to do with technology STEM isnt in high demand.

It might change, it probably wont. Its a upper middle class degree and you should be content with that.

The amount of careers where you make good money straight from university are pretty slim. You have to be real lucky imo. Even doctors dont make a lot until they specialise.

As a mechanical engineer most people give it up to get a start in project management. A lot of my friends have gone back to uni to get a masters of business to help get them into those positions. I dont really have any interest in that, id prefer to go to uni to do some research or something else but its just a waste of money imo.

>> No.11903425

>>11895299
what the heck is pre-algebra?

like 5 + "an empty box" = 8

like what someone does in year 7 or 8

>> No.11903711

>>11903425
Numeracy and geometry

>> No.11903756
File: 2.31 MB, 1920x1080, 1454238707151.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11903756

I personally feel like I could learn anything and everything if I tried. Of course when I try I study in incredibly short bursts, learning and remembering nothing.

I feel like I do it not to shatter the image of myself, my worst fear is being a brainlet. I know I am, therefore I don't study too much so I can't fail. If and when I fail it's because I studied too little. I went through calculus without studying at all, until I seriously did and only got a 3 (it was a probably a 4 but I forgot C from everything). I also feel like my brain is a mush

>> No.11903855

>>11896583
>College is free if you're top student or you pay some minimal amount otherwise.
Or if you live not in stupid ass nigger country

>> No.11904057

>>11903756
honestly what's disheartening for me is just how wrong i always am
whenever i think of something cool or have an idea, it's always been experimented with before
it's either so obviously wrong that nobody considered it, or already out there

>> No.11904415

>>11900299
you don't have to be able to draw freehand to be an architect anon
it's not wrong to use tools

>> No.11904426

>>11895464
I chose CS over applied math. I am a career changer so I wanted to gain new skills and return to a job as quickly as possible. I understand that to really gain knowledge in applied math you would need an undergrad in pure then a master in applied which would have been four years instead of two.

>> No.11904445

>>11904057
I know that being wrong is a challenging thing to be
but it's ok to be wrong most of the time
the most important part is that you learn from the mistakes that you have made
and if you think that somebody else has already done it is discouraging you
you can see what they have learned

>> No.11904545

>>11904445
it's just i'm always wrong because i have an ego. i'm really starting from scratch and i have to swallow my pride.i feel years behind

>> No.11904669

There's an old maxim

"The closer to the money you are the more you make"

99% of STEM is not close to the money and engineers, mathematicians, and scientists get a cookie for their good work. Capitalism is about generating capital; if you want a lucrative career work directly with money. He'll even quants get a cookie compared to what traders and investment managers are making. You do STEM because you enjoy it and maybe hope you get a comfy job somewhere.

>> No.11904706

>>11904669
>He'll even quants get a cookie compared to what traders and investment managers are making
doesn't that depend on the firm? i thought quant led shops are a thing

>> No.11904714

>>11904669
Engineers make majority of the CEOs though

>> No.11904758

>>11904714
in engineering companies probably? they probably shifted their careers to go into management and exec halfway through though

>> No.11904798

>>11903309
are you trying?

>> No.11904800

Is MechE a degree worth pursuing? It sounds interesting with the clean energy and the likes.

>> No.11904918

Pursuing my PhD

we'll see how true OP is in around 2 years

>> No.11905044

>>11897497
>You don't have to be a slave for all your life, usury is Evil after all and since the USA is a christian country, usury is banned.
Uhhh, you might have missed the memo, but America is a jewish country now

>> No.11905385

>>11895309
EE is incredible lucrative. Power, systems, software, etc. Many options available in EE field, or you could totally ignore you major and do something bland such as metrology or validation.

>> No.11907204

>>11895299
good luck man

>> No.11907234

>>11895309
>Fields like EE are basically dead at this point.
unemployed EE major here, can confirm

>> No.11907252

>>11903414
Have sex

>> No.11907261

lol OP's image literally describes me, except I didn't bother with masters/PhD.
Friends who are in those programs hate their lives, friends who completed them are making only slightly more than Walmart employees under high stress environments. Hard sciences seem like a dead-end.

I think most of the engineering professions are shit tier in our current society. Mechanical, Petroleum, Electrical, Chemical during boomer times? Fucking lucrative. Nowadays? You gotta have contacts from what I understand and even many of those industries are dying. I honestly wished I had spent more time going to job fairs in college than boosting my GPA (which in of itself is a meme unless you want to get a masters/PhD).

It truly feels like CompSci is your best bet but I don't know much about the industry. People say there is a lot of outsourcing.

Personally? I'm pivoting to nursing. Money is good, job is secure, and you only really need 2 years of training for it (1 for me since I already got a BS to knock out most courses). If I end up getting singed by it though, I'm done with this faggot world.

>> No.11907757

>>11907261
You don't know how bad it feels on my end. I'm going to uni in the fall for EE, and I already want to get drunk off a bottle of Jack just from reading the responses in this thread.

>> No.11907800

>>11895238
>be me
>humanities student
feels good

y'all autists need to learn to use your degrees for something creative instead of following a program/pipeline

>> No.11907821

>>11895238
Yeah as the other said only CS is really the viable one. Way too many engineers and maths students. Here in bongland few people actually study CS, which why pay for those related jobs are relatively high even for CS related apprenticeships compared to other STEM fields.

>> No.11907920

>>11907800
Major?

>> No.11907929

> gradated from a top 10 uni
> failed
yea right.

Who made this ? Sometimes you start reading smth that makes sense and it constantly remind you that you reading here something that 16 year olds wrote and discuss.

>> No.11907935

>>11895238
Depends on what and where you are innit. Don't know if India needs anymore computer scientists, but here in UK there is a shortage of chemical engineers. Most likely because they pay them like shit but this does make it easy to get your foot in the industry and get some experience.

>> No.11907972

>>11895803
>cs makes six figures starting now but it's the most oversaturated field ever because every single fucking person ever is trying to get into it
This is what I currently fear, wanted to do CS since I was middleschool, but now that I'm in university it feels like absolutely everyone is doing CS (The only bright side is that I think at least half of the other CS students are completely inept)

>> No.11907984

>>11904669
Biggest redpill I've ever read on 4channel

>> No.11907999

>>11907972
Everyone HAS been doing CS since 90s when Microsoft exploded. World is way too unpredictable. Experience wins over all. You just got to try your hardest at actually applying yourself and hope for the best. Nothing else you can do.

>> No.11908006

>>11896566
>but it seems like some generations have more luck than others when it comes to IQ.

There is more to IQ than genetics. Environmental toxins (like lead prevalent in gasoline not too long ago) can have generational effects.

>> No.11908009

>>11896642
>Tfw only get hard from my fantasies

It's actually the best outcome.

>> No.11908367
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11908367

>be 19 year old who couldnt decide on what to study
>mfw this thread

>> No.11908725
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11908725

>>11907972
Everyone's always been doing CS for the money. Intelligence is the key edge in the field; keep in mind that the average person studying CS is only marginally more intelligent than the average /sci/ poster, and are too smooth-brained to actually be able to do their job effectively,.

>> No.11909012

>>11907757
This is why I chose a path based on things I care about with complete disregard for money. If I stayed in engineering and failed to get a job after, I'd probably just kill myself out of regret of not trying to do math since it didn't work anyway. Regardless, getting enough money to love isnt THAT hard. I lived in poverty as a kid, literally on social welfare. It sucks, but experiencing poverty shows you how easy it is to actually live.

>> No.11909117

>>11895238
Probably, but the female quota in a study program is usually unironically a good measure for the lucrativeness of a career path.
The lower, the more lucrative. If it's really only about the money for you, CS, Mathematics and maybe Physics are probably best.
If you are a brainlet, you will get filtered hard, though, so be prepared.

>> No.11909149

Nuclear Physics

I hear Iran is paying premium.

>> No.11909158

>>11895238
I studied psych in school
First job was data analyst, then became a "process engineer"

Not sure why people have trouble finding work, I dont even study in my free time its all on the job learning

>> No.11909162

>>11907972
>(The only bright side is that I think at least half of the other CS students are completely inept)
i'm incredibly incompetent and i ended up making almost 160k starting. it's all just random fucking luck
less than a year out of college and i've forgotten how to do basic data structures shit, you basically use none of the stuff in school on the job

>> No.11909190

>>11907972
>it feels like absolutely everyone is doing CS
Look your seat neighbours in the eyes (alternatively: look at a random guy in your Zoom feed).
He won't be there next year.
Introductory classes are usually also open to people from other courses by the way.
Especially the girls aren't actually doing CS - at best as a minor. If you see one you fancy in Programming 101, talk to her NOW.

>> No.11909299

>>11909190
>He won't be there next year.
I guess I'll see how accurate this is in a month. I'd reckon about 75% of the intro programming class was doing CS or a related major based on the introductions on the first day of class

>> No.11909311

>>11895238
literally any year ever. Engineering is what drives humanity forward;

medicine will never NOT be in demand (& definitely needs improvement)

tech will never stop advancing for as long as humans are alive. Combine with business and you become a god

>> No.11909445

>>11909299
>I guess I'll see how accurate this is in a month.
It depends on how stringent your examination regulations are.
At my university it was three attempts to pass exams. So desperate people may stay around for a while despite not passing.
About 70% failed the first attempt in the initial CS mathematics class.
It was reassuring to see the friends I had made during that time manage to pass as well, but overall people got weeded out hard.

>> No.11909656

>>11909445
The intro CS course itself was really easy (There were of course people still attempting to plagiarize), but the fact that calc 2 was recommended to be taken first year and there were 0 CS students n my calc 2 course that didn't drop it doesn't bode well

>> No.11909746

>>11909656
Isnt calc 2 during 1st year standard in Eng/CS/Physics? Considering you have to move on to ODE/PDE/LA/multivar+vect calc/Complex analysis and all the algorithm/computational type classes that differ by major and then you have statistics/logic/discrete

You'd really get behind taking calc 2nd year

>> No.11911213

>>11909746
>Isnt calc 2 during 1st year standard in Eng/CS/Physics?
Yep, you know how it is though a bunch of people get way behind on their degree and just hang around campus for a few years until switching to something like psych

>> No.11911638

>>11897211
>he had to "work hard" in undergrad
lmao. PhD yes, but undergrad? what are you doing?

>> No.11911986

If I want to make as much money as possible doing CS what level of education should I stop at?

>> No.11912015

>>11895299
I went back around your age. It is honestly such a rewarding experience compared to wage slavery. I ended up employed with a MA in Math, you can do it anon:)

>> No.11912183

>>11895299
HIT THE BRAKES
as a 26y/o with a BSEE im warning you that you are about to commit a grave mistake. enroll in compsci and get your stack built up. youll thank me later

>> No.11912203

Define lucrative
List it compared to other major averages

No
Yes

>> No.11912432

>>11911986
Internships + top 3 school and you can stop at any degree level really. The hardest part is getting that entry/junior position at a high paying company. After that it's just years of work and being a go getter to be promoted faster. You'll at some point probably do an evening/online MBA should you want upper management.

>> No.11912918

>>11900299
If I can give you advice about entrepreneurship it would be to read some books like Zero to One to understand why some businesses fail while others succeed. Also that a lot of it is straight up luck. And that generally the most abstract idea for a company tends to be more successful so it takes some time to find the right idea. And also talk to smart people about your idea because you can get way too emotionally connected to the idea if you don't talk to other disagreeable people about which can lead to a lot of time wasted if the idea is bad.