/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11883673]

Someone explain this to me, because I don't get it. Who exactly is going to colonize Mars? There's no economic benefit, just the opposite, it'll cost you a lot of money to get there. You won't get land out of it. You will never feel the sand and waves of the ocean on your feet or scream against the wind and thunder of a summer storm again. Life will be shitty and hard and the novelty of people living on Mars will die down quickly. What will Mars actually produce to fuel the growth of a colony? What will the colonists get out of living on Mars?

[Anonymous No.11883676]

>>11883673
>Who exactly is going to colonize Mars?
me

[Anonymous No.11883678]

There's gold in them thar hills

[Anonymous No.11883683]

>>11883673
>There's no economic benefit
we literally don't care. Economy is the most retarded thing invented by humans.

[Anonymous No.11883690]

>>11883673
Nice pioneer spirit OP.
I'm personally a spacenoid and not a marsfag but by virtue of not having all your eggs in one basket alone it is worth doing, or at the very least giving it the ol' college try.

[Anonymous No.11883694]

>>11883673
Thousands, probably millions of volunteers disagree.

[Anonymous No.11883695]

>>11883683
Economics exists without money anon. Its just another method of moving energy up hill.

[Anonymous No.11883697]

It’ll never happen, don’t worry about it.

[Anonymous No.11883701]

>>11883690
>not having all your eggs in one basket
Mars would not survive if Earth died

[Anonymous No.11883704]

>>11883701
Yes, those earthmong immigrants will fuck mars up if earth ever died.

[Anonymous No.11883718]

>>11883694
Again. Where will the money come from? Will those volunteers have enough children to sustain a Mars colony? How sure are you that they won't be tired of it after a year or ten?
>>11883683
Nothing can grow without producing wealth. That is the very definition of excess value.
>>11883690
I have no problem with accepting that humanity will have a large presence in near-Earth and cis-lunar space sooner or later, I just don't see how a Martian colony will come from that within, lets say, the next hundred years.

[Anonymous No.11883725]

Someone told me consciousness can be computed and they browse lesswrong and know all the sequences and are are super smart.
so i guess just beam a bunch of minds as radio signals to droids there idk anon.

[Anonymous No.11883726]

>>11883718
tesla
yeah
there's plenty more that would come for any that wanted to go home

[Anonymous No.11883740]

It's good practice before we eventually colonise other star systems especially if we get around to terraforming.

[Anonymous No.11883743]

>>11883718
American colonies didn't produce money until they did. You kikes are so obvious in your ways.

[Anonymous No.11883771]

>>11883743
I don't see how my support for the nation of Israel has anything to with my views on space colonization. That said, you can't seriously compare early American colonies with one on Mars. People could easily survive on the North American continent, the whole thing was self-sustainable practically the moment they set foot on-shore. You need huge supply chains and manufacturing to expand on Mars, which isn't possible without a long and steady supply of material and capital from Earth.
>>11883726
Are there? Have there been studies or even just polls on this? I find it very hard to believe that citizens of modern first world countries are going to give up everything to live on a lifeless dust-ball worse than Antarctica.

[Anonymous No.11883775]

>>11883673
Nothing it's just a Reddit meme

[Anonymous No.11883776]

>>11883771
typical

[Anonymous No.11883777]

>>11883673
>Someone explain this to me, because I don't get it. Who exactly is going to colonize Mars? There's no economic benefit, just the opposite, it'll cost you a lot of money to get there.

[Anonymous No.11883810]

>>11883771
>I find it very hard to believe that citizens of modern first world countries are going to give up everything to live on a lifeless dust-ball worse than Antarctica.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_One
>Mars One is noted as being very short on funding, lacking critical concepts about hardware, life support, electrical power supply, and has been criticized as glossing over logistics, medical concerns, and protection against space radiation.The concept has been called a suicide mission in academia, spaceflight, and international news.
>More than 200,000 people expressed interest.
you underestimate how suicidal pioneer-types are

[Anonymous No.11883817]

>>11883673

As long as the natural resources profit covers the fuel and materiel cost, we're gonna go to Mars.

Also if there's no life, we can give zero fucks about environmental regulations, can't wait for rare earths mining and processing onsite

[Anonymous No.11883827]

>>11883771
You should shill in /pol/ there isn't enough viewers here to justify your budget.

[Anonymous No.11883854]

>>11883827
Man, I wish I was getting paid for this. I'm just your run-of-the-mill moderate who thinks commies and nazis suck, truth lies somewhere in the center, globalism and capitalism are the way to go and Israel is an allied liberal democracy we should support. There's more of us than you could possibly imagine. Don't get triggered so easily, dude.
>>11883817
>As long as the natural resources profit covers the fuel and materiel cost, we're gonna go to Mars
Obviously. The question if that'll be the case within the next few decades. I kinda doubt it, hence this post.
>>11883810
>you underestimate how suicidal pioneer-types are
May well be true, but Mars One also has the "glory" of being one of the first men on Mars baked into it. Being immortalized in the history books is something entirely different from being one of many in a minimalistic Martian colony where'll be trapped inside either a dome, a tunnel or a spacesuit for the rest of your life.

[Anonymous No.11883860]

>>11883771
Initially there will be only a permanent base (10 people), than an full outpost (100).
For such numbers (qualified) volunteers aren't a problem.
The money can come from Spacex itself if it's profitable and still has the intention to finance it, but it could be public as well.
If starship becomes so cheap as Musk hopes for it's in the realm of public financing by almost any country on earth.
National pride among nations could be a factor too, everyone will want to claim a piece of Mars.
How much it can grow from that it's unclear but you cannot dismiss the possibility of a real colony.

[Anonymous No.11883863]

>>11883854
>Obviously. The question if that'll be the case within the next few decades. I kinda doubt it, hence this post

Well, first we need to explore the planet to assess the economic interests, Mars was once tectonically active and had water, so we can assume that the main mechanisms which build ore deposits have been active in the past and no resources have been exploited, meaning it's easier to locate them and refine them.

The objective is not terraforming, is economic exploitation of mineral and energy sources with minimal human presence, also since Mars is not a nation, the first comes first served policy might apply and, since actually going to Mars and exploiting it is a technological challenge, it would be a doable objective only for technologically advanced societies which could give the proverbial middle fingers to other countries and say "fuck negotiations with your governments, we space resources now".

[Anonymous No.11883869]

>>11883854
>he does it for free

[Anonymous No.11883872]

>>11883854
Don't bother replying to the hater they are trying to derail the conversation.

The only way I can see it being doable is to have the resources mined in space or on-site. That means the first bunch of "colonists" will have to be science expedition living in some sort of dome and rotated out to stop them going mental.

They will need to go out and find mining sites to prove sustainability. Shipping the resources back to earth is just dumb so the big plan(tm) would be to get fabrication going somewhere close and build something on an ad-hoc basis.

[Anonymous No.11883900]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ore_resources_on_Mars#Direct_evidence_for_useful_materials
We need precious metals to continue with our current technology level. We need to start mining the moon, mars, asteroids, and other bodies.

[Anonymous No.11883972]

>>11883673
Who cares about economic benefit? The plan is to build a good society there and to relax from all those fucking idiots around us. More time for science and actual living.

[Anonymous No.11884007]

>>11883900
mining precious metals from mars is a complete fucking joke. It's probably cheaper to make precious metals through nuclear transmutation than it is to mine mars.

[Anonymous No.11884008]

>>11883673
Someone explain this to me, because I don't get it. Who exactly is going to colonize the Americas? There's no economic benefit, just the opposite, it'll cost you a lot of money to get there. You won't get land out of it. You will never feel the sand and waves of the Mediterranean on your feet or visit the Alps. Life will be shitty and hard and the novelty of people living in the Americas will die down quickly. What will the Americas actually produce to fuel the growth of a colony? What will the colonists get out of living in the Americas?

[Anonymous No.11884012]

>>11884007
You can also mine fuel for Elon's reusable steel dildo so the cost is basically just mining equipment and the rocket itself.

[Anonymous No.11884025]

>>11884007

Not necessarily.
Mars has never been exploited so we could assume that the "easy" resources are still in place, also since Mars has lower gravity all of the lifting which machines do is less fuel intensive

[Anonymous No.11884031]

>>11884025
Biggest problem will probably be dust resistance. That's what's killed all of the rovers.

[Anonymous No.11884032]

>>11884008
Retarded take.
>There's no economic benefit
Everyone knew there was. That was the whole point of sailing West. Not exploring or dumb shit, but economic benefit.
>You won't get land out of it
2 whole continents, of actually arable land. None of that on Mars.
>You will never feel the sand and waves of the Mediterranean on your feet or visit the Alps
It's the same ocean dumbass. Plus they could go back whenever, a few thousand miles compared to a few billion.
>Life will be shitty and hard and the novelty of people living in the Americas will die down quickly
Yet Mars will be infinitely worse than Antarctica, where, mind you, no one lives even today.
>What will the Americas actually produce to fuel the growth of a colony
They can actually grow crops independently, they don't need to rely on a rocket flying from another planet with a "garden module" just to live.
>What will the colonists get out of living in the Americas?
An actual life comparable to Europe. On Mars you will be living worse than the shittiest conditions on Earth, where no one even bothers to live right now.

[Anonymous No.11884038]

>>11884031

Dust resistance?

Since Mars atmosphere is less dense than the earth's we should have no mechanical issues with wind pressure and dust kinetical energy and a couple mechanics can easily do machinery cleaning and maintenance

[Anonymous No.11884039]

>>11883673
Same as those who colonized America. Those guided by principles and not economic incentives. They literally spent all their fortunes to get a ride to America so they can start a new life.

[Anonymous No.11884042]

>>11883673
Explain to Grug. Grug not get. Who colonize outside valley? No rockomic benefit. Opposite. Cost many many meat and rock for Grug to get there. Grug not get land. Grug never feel grass or wind there. Life not unga and hard like rock and novelty of Grugs living outside valley will die quick. What will outside valley make for Grug? What will Grug get out of living outside valley?

[Anonymous No.11884049]

Here's the deal, OP - Elon Musk really wants humanity to set up permanently on Mars. Not just dinky science stations of maybe a few hundred people, but literally at least a million people, enough to get all the industries needed to lead to a self-sufficient Mars, though this will take decades.

Now on the face of it this plan sounds absurdly grandiose, but digging into it Ol'Musky actually has a decent shot of pulling it off. He is the majority stakeholder in SpaceX, which is set to make silly amounts of money with Starlink - $10 billion in profit a year would be on the low end of estimates. Now, if Starship gets anywhere near its estimated flight cost (and I see no reason why it wouldn't), that will be more than enough to launch thousands (and later, tens of thousands) of settlers & equipment every synod, with plenty left over for r&d work on the necessary equipment. Musk also has been setting up other companies that have obvious colonization applications, like Tesla for electric vehicles, batteries, and solar panels, and the Boring company for tunnel digging stuff. Now, this plan also needs lots of people willing to settle Mars, but finding a million people willing to say fuck this gay Earth over the course of decades should be doable.

TLDR; Eccentric billionaire wants Mars colony, has set up companies to accomplish this goal. That by itself is enough economic reason to get it going.

[Anonymous No.11884051]

>where will the money come from?
SpaceX will start by funding the Mars initiative by using private and government rocket launch contracts.
Then, once Starlink starts operating, SpaceX will have an unlimited amount of funds to use.
And once a basic colony has been set up, sending goods to Mars will basically be free, considering they can be sent alongside tourists who wish to visit Mars.
Not to mention the profits gained by the processed ore that can be sent back to Earth.

[Anonymous No.11884061]

>2050
>Elon has Mars colony
>it has 10K people instead of 1 million Elon envisioned
>Elon Skeptics claim "Elon Musk is a fraud!!! He promised 1 million. Overpromises and underdelivers!!!! He's not an engineer!"
What do you say to the Elon "Skeptics"?

[Anonymous No.11884067]

>>11884061
Nothing. What I would say wouldn't matter because Elon (and anyone who supported him) have already won.

[Anonymous No.11884068]

>>11884039
>They literally spent all their fortunes to get a ride to America so they can start a new life.
For hope of a better life, not an objectively worse life by all measures. Earth is for humans, and humans are for Earth.
>>11884042
Grug still on same big rock though. Grug still breathe air. Grug still feel grass and wind. Land still outside valley to live on. But not on red rock. Red rock have no air, no grass, no meat, no radiation protection. If Grug go to red planet he will be just parasite for rockpayers on blue planet. And likely die.
>>11884049
>>11884051
>>11884061
Suck more dick, you still won't get a free ride.

[Anonymous No.11884248]

>>11884068
cope

[Anonymous No.11884257]

>>11884248
God DAMN that looks reversed. This is the coolest fucking thing to come out of the 2020s imho.

[Anonymous No.11884263]

>>11884257
But that's from like 2015.

[Anonymous No.11884265]

>>11884248
webm related

[Anonymous No.11884276]

>>11883673
>There's no economic benefit
The idea is that eventually there might be

[Anonymous No.11884280]

>>11883673
>scream against the wind and thunder of a summer storm again
You've never done this, none of us have ever done this, no one alive except for overly sentimental mooks have done this.
>THERES NO MONEY IT IT WHY WOULD YOU DO IT WHAT DO YOU EVEN GET FROM THIS REEEEEE
You can't exploit what don't explore, dumbass. If we ever wanted to do any of that shit, we have to get to Mars first. It's called a fucking long-play, you simpleton.

[Anonymous No.11884304]

>>11883718
You need money to buy things from earth. You don't need money on mars. The money is going to come from starlink, somewhere between 5-20 billion a year.

[Anonymous No.11884308]

>>11884032
the time it took to cross the Atlantic was three months, for mars getting their is six months

[Anonymous No.11884510]

>>11884068
No one wants you in Chadcity One. Stay here on earth choking in your polution and brown people while pioneers beat yet another frontier into submission through application of the human spirit and our ability to game any system put in front of us.
If you insist on economic value mars is adjacent to the asteroid belt and will be the weigh station of all material going out there.
But again, please stay home. No one needs that kind of bullshitter quitter attitude on any frontier.

[Anonymous No.11884520]

>>11883673
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goh2x_G0ct4

[Anonymous No.11884531]

>>11884510
>choking in your polution
You literally can't breathe on Mars.
>brown people
Mars will never be allowed to be more than 50% white.
>economic value
Asteroid mining is more expensive than even going to Mars, nevermind bringing it all the way to Earth. It is not worth it at this time, and neither is going to Mars.
>bullshitter quitter attitude
It's called realism. I'd love to go to Mars to visit, but it will never be an independent colony, will never be self-sufficient, and will never be economically sustainable on its own. At least not this century or next, or the century after that.
Everytime someone with actual concerns about space colonization pipes up you reddit faggots pull nonsense out of your ass and close your ears to all criticism.
>muh pioneer spirit
>muh asteroid mining quadrillions in revenue
Take these 2 retards
>>11884008
>>11884042
Moving somewhere else on Earth is completely different from moving away from Earth. To compare the two is a logical fallacy yet you space nerds eat it up. Elon Musk will more likely be in prison than on Mars in the next 10 years. Mars is a meme.

[Anonymous No.11884541]

>>11884061
10k people by 2050 would be pretty impressive

[Anonymous No.11884576]

>>11884531
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST PUSH FRONTIERS! ITS GOING BE TOO HARD!
If it were up to you humanity never would have climbed down from the trees.

[Anonymous No.11884583]

>>11884576
There's a difference between being a pioneer and being suicidal.
>implying humans were apes
Low iq

[Anonymous No.11884585]

>>11883673
the problem is not economic. the problem is that there is no military interest whatsoever.
the us would throw all the money necessary (and russia, china may try to follow) if there were a hint of military advantage. there isn't.
there will be no money for colonization.

[Anonymous No.11884603]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86scPKqWFvc
No, Im thinking Im good here.

[Anonymous No.11884613]

>>11884007
>mining precious metals from mars is a complete fucking joke.
Partially agree. Mars is a destination not really a resource exporter unless there's extant life. Mars has two things going for it: a metric assload of land and equatorial glaciers for ISRU and possible export. Metals are pretty far down the list of exploitable resources on Mars due to energy and supplementary materials needs.

[Anonymous No.11884698]

Almost all space endeavors have been completely pointless without economic benifit, wanna know why humans did them? Its cool as fuck thats why, living on mars, although probably alot shittier then living on earth and far more dangerous, is cool as fuck. Also the technology required to actually accomplish this is likely to be highly innovative and transferable to industries on earth. Many technologies have been developed for space missions have been adopted for profitable consumer and industrial products on earth.

[Anonymous No.11884724]

>>11884263
I meant 2020s as in 2010-2020. But yeah I see it's non-standard.

[Anonymous No.11884741]

>>11884698
Actually almost all space stuff is commercial stuff with commercial satellites outnumbering government and military satellites 3:1, not to mention lot of the government and military satellites are still commercially viable services even if they are paid by tax payers.

[Anonymous No.11884753]

>>11883810 >>11883771
>>More than 200,000 people expressed interest.
>you underestimate how suicidal pioneer-types are
More than 200,000 people don't understand how harsh Mars is and the more delusional ancap believe they'll easily build comfy self-sufficient space dome once they get rid of the evil governments.

Many of those who believe in Mars colony aren't the type who do it for the future of mankind. They are the type who gave up on Earth and believe a planet clean of all those filthy others will let them build a space utopia.

Someone who do want the best for mankind would know we have to get rid of capitalism if we want part of the immense wealth generated put into the future of mankind in space.

/pol

[Anonymous No.11884795]

>>11884276
>The idea is that eventually there might be
That's not how economic system work. Only transfer of valuable goods or information between place where they are wanted make an economy grow.
Realistically you won't be able to exploit and carry Mars resource back to Earth and Mars will have nothing to exchange for Earth goods unless onwning land there become desirable.
Any investment on Mars would be extraordinarily risky as a wrong choice anywhere in the process may not fix itself thanks to some invisible hand, and that's without going into the spacewar that will result from imperialistic expansion. No one is going to respect the declaration of independence of the Principality of Musk.

[Anonymous No.11884809]

>>11884741
Those satellites are viable because they do produce a service.
Invest 10 millions = Get 100 millions selling instant communication.
Putting a comm satellite around Mars will bring no benefit unless there's people who need it and will pay you for this service.

[Anonymous No.11884858]

>>11884809
Yes same thing as the first satellites didn't bring benefits either or first settlers to america didn't. Mars will by definition be worth any expense in the long run like every expansion mission always does.

[Anonymous No.11884881]

>>11883718
The money comes from mining. Energy produced can be beamed from mars to earth.

[Anonymous No.11884884]

>>11884858
I'm done arguing with you brainlets. Mars is not worth colonizing because it's intrinsic value does not outweigh it's costs. LEO satellites have intrinsic value worth more than the $50 million or whatever it takes to build and launch it. America has intrinsic value worth more than the costs it takes to farm the land and build the shelters. Mars does not.

[Anonymous No.11884892]

>>11884884
>Mars is not worth colonizing because it's intrinsic value does not outweigh it's costs.
Wrong
You are done because you have no arguments

[Anonymous No.11884908]

>>11884892
Tell me what value Mars has that is worth the literal trillions in infrastructure
>no valuable resources
>the moon is a better launch site
>???
You space fags are mentally ill, like >>11884881. Coming up with nonsense as a hand-wavy solution.

[Anonymous No.11884931]

>>11884908
>Tell me what value Mars has that is worth the literal trillions in infrastructure
A new planet is worth hundred times that

What value does america have? Lifetime of grain from peasants a boat can carry won't cover the payment for the boat.

[Anonymous No.11884940]

>>11884931
>A new planet is worth hundred times that
Not if it's a planet with nothing on it. Frozen water? Lmao.
>no rare gases
>no rare minerals
>certain death by radiation

>Lifetime of grain from peasants a boat can carry won't cover the payment for the boat.
The boat was 100% reusable, and the payment of passage already covered the cost. Nice try at a false equivalency though.

[Anonymous No.11884943]

>>11884940
>Not if it's a planet with nothing on it. Frozen water? Lmao.
It's mars it has planets worth of resources

>The boat was 100% reusable
And could sink which they often did and the first voyagers didn't pay for their trips.

[Anonymous No.11884946]

>>11884931
>What value does america have?
>tobacco
>cotton
>removing degenerates and religious freaks from society

If it wasn’t for these factors making replacement colonization profitable from the start America would not exist as it does today. The Jamestown colonists were primarily motivated by the prospect of getting rich easy by growing tobacco, the New England colonists were “fleeing religious persecution” which from the English/Dutch perspective means “getting those no fun allowed faggots to fuck off across the ocean”

None of these factors would make a Mars colony remotely profitable in the short term unless you hate religious fanatics enough you don’t even want them on your planet and no mars colony is going to actually host religious fundies.

[Anonymous No.11884953]

>>11884946
none of those early colonies in north america ever saw a dime go back to England. And again it doesn't matter what it costs, in 300 years it will be worth all the money in the world.

I get you shills want to suppress innovation but honestly it's just embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.11884955]

>>11884943
>planets worth of resources
Dirt is not a resource you fucking moron
>And could sink which they often did and the first voyagers didn't pay for their trips.
False and false. Stop pulling shit out of your ass to see if it will stick.

[Anonymous No.11884961]

>>11884953
>none of those early colonies in north america ever saw a dime go back to England.
Why are you blatantly lying?

[Anonymous No.11884962]

>>11884955
Mars has lot more than dirt

>False and false.
>Ships can't sink
Ye at least make it believable

[Anonymous No.11884969]

>>11884961
Because it's true?
Why are you lying?

[Anonymous No.11884977]

>>11884962
>>Ships can't sink
Implying I said that
>>11884969
>Because it's true?
Implying
I think we're done here. You can't be reasoned with.

[Anonymous No.11884984]

>>11884977
You claimed ships sinking was false

>I think we're done here
Try lying and shilling less and having some arguments if you want to continue

[Anonymous No.11884989]

>>11884977
Damn anon you’re objectively right and the anon you’re arguing with who think mars colonies have intrinsic value is retarded but you still lose this debate by virtue of inferior autism

[Anonymous No.11885004]

>>11884884
>I don't see value therefore it doesn't exist
Sorry Anon, but it's you who's the brainlet.

[Anonymous No.11885067]

>>11884741
You seriously lack imagination, and ambition. The early space programs were complete and utter money pits and had the exact same criticism you have about mars. People argued the automobile was pointless and would never be profitable, people thought the wright brothers were wasting their time, but in the long run it payed off. A mars colony may pay off in the long run also, it may also fail. You are not the billionaire risking it all and no one is forcing anyone to go, so Im not sure why you are so butthurt about it. Also, like I said before, it's very cool stuff. Sometimes you just do something because it is challenging, fun and interesting.

[Anonymous No.11885082]

>>11885067
You lack reading comprehension, I am for mars colonization and was simply correcting that guy on the nature of space industry

[Anonymous No.11885083]

>>11883673
>What will the colonists get out of living on Mars?
We'll finally be free of this shit planet

[Anonymous No.11885230]

>>11884008
>There's no economic benefit
Columbus was trying to find a passage to beat out the Portuguese and Ottoman monopoly on trade with Asia
Later colonization was all about economic benefits and resources

[Anonymous No.11885243]

>>11883673
It's chock full of precious metals. It's literally like Earth but without any trace of mining. Like America before 1500AD. Granted it's still a long term investment since decades would pass before we're able to take stuff back reliably, but then again it's the same as America.

[Anonymous No.11885252]

>>11885243
It was bombarded by asteroids for millions of years without sea, plants and vulcans changing landscape.
There have to be rare metals.

[Anonymous No.11885268]

its a colossal waste of cash and time in the persuite of a meme and ego masturbation.
Marse is a worthless planet, even as a "back up" earth, humans can't live there, the gravity is too low and the radiation too high. and as far as we know there is no fucking water.

[Anonymous No.11885273]

>>11883673
Nobody's going to colonize it in the sci-fi sense (mass habitation, cities etc). It's all just SpaceX PR, nobody's doing anything to make it happen, including SpaceX themselves.

The more or less realistic target at this point is a simple laboratory with some ingress/egress logistics. To make even that happen, many things should have been researched literally yesterday, but nobody's even trying. SpaceX promises the transport, technically. But not the manned part and habitation - both need orders of magnitude more than a large rocket.

Ignore the armchair fanboys who are telling you otherwise.

[Anonymous No.11885311]

>>11885268
First off, we don't know if Martian gravity is particularly harmful over long terms. It hasn't been studied yet. If it is, stuff like rotating habitats with banked sides are an option. Likewise the radiation risk on the short term can be mitigated by building underground habitats, and in the longer term setting up a big ass nuclear powered magnet at Mars's L1 would help a lot. And finally Mars has huge amounts of water ice; what gave you that fool-hearted idea that we don't know if Mars has water?

[Anonymous No.11885318]

>>11885311
He is from 1960s.

[Anonymous No.11885329]

>>11885311
Consider also that you can build a space elevator on mars with contemporary materials and technology, so you could just make a station that rotates under 1g that your colonist spend 1 week a month in, or whatever.
Also, if you have a colony you're going to need to collect as much water as possible. If you store it in large cisterns you could just have mandatory swim time for everyone. Swimming is a nice full body resistance exercise and gravity isn't going to make a difference.

[Anonymous No.11885334]

You're pretty much guaranteed to fuck and reproduce if you are on Mars as the genetic diversity is limited.

[Anonymous No.11885347]

>>11885334
oh, so that's why all people who are optimistic about Mars colonization are cucks

[Anonymous No.11885350]

>>11883673
It's not about what is there but what isn't
No minorities

[Anonymous No.11885371]

>>11883673
Doesn't Musk have a plan for you to pay for your ride with literal indentured servitude?

[Anonymous No.11885378]

Bezos and his cylinders are a bette long term plan along with moon bases. I can't believe out of all the sci-fi universes it was fucking Gundam that seems to have gotten the right idea.

[Anonymous No.11885380]

>>11885371
If Starship is as cheap as he says its going to be as cheap as house.

[Anonymous No.11885838]

It doesn't make sense until terraforming becomes a thing. Once conditions on Earth worsen it will become more economic, without another golden age of science I doubt we settle Mars for hundreds of years.

[Anonymous No.11885898]

>>11884931
What is the value in barren land? Yes with future science you could turn it into habitable land but it in literally a money sink.

[Anonymous No.11886023]

>>11883673
Here on Earth a purposeless existence is the norm in the developed world. Most jobs are bullshit jobs with an hour or two of real work and a remainder made up of politicking and presentation.

By contrast, if you can't produce food for the colony then everyone on the planet will die. Not only do you matter, everyone else matters. Your sense of tribalism will vanish, or at the very least become reconfigured such that you value the life of your fellow colonist more than the lives of people millions of miles away. The people in your past never did anything for you. Your fellow colonists are the reason why you're still alive.

A whole planet's worth of resources, but I think the biggest gain might the chance to create a culture that isn't shit.

[Anonymous No.11886036]

>>11883673
white people, dont worry about it.
money is by faith, we create the value, not in the land, land/gold/resources dont have intrinsic wealth, something many dont understand

[Anonymous No.11886038]

>>11886023
I think your sense of tribilsm will be real, not along fake ilines

[Anonymous No.11886044]

>>11886023
white people culture isnt shit.

[Anonymous No.11886056]

>>11886044
Have you personally ever gone to such an event? Could you care to describe what you felt?

It certainly looks interesting, even though I don't entirely know what's going on. I wouldn't normally go to such an event though. At least not spontaneously.

This isn't personally valuable to me. At least not enough to where I would personally purchase a ticket an attend or attend for free.

That could change on Mars though, who knows. That's the thing, Mars could be the great decider of what constitutes a worthy culture by seeing what persists in the face of the greatest adversity humankind has ever faced.

By contrast classical music arguably arose out of a culture of hedonism.

[Anonymous No.11886058]

>>11886038
Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking when I thought of it being reconfigured. It won't be petty tribalism, a filler for a meaningless life. It will be a genuine and pragmatic even.

[Anonymous No.11886065]

>>11883673
>yfw a bunch of tech/science worshiping cultists want to colonize Mars and make it their home
And some believe in transhumanism too!

[Anonymous No.11886172]

>>11886065
Most of the far out ideas about transhumanism sound more theoretically valid than most of the drivel about Mars.

[Anonymous No.11886346]

>>11885311
>we don't know if Martian gravity is particularly harmful over long terms
We don't know if Martian radiation is particularly harmful over long terms either

[Anonymous No.11886587]

>>11886346
We already know big solar eruptions would kill anyone even under a pressurized dome.
Sure you can have shelters and go there in those cases but it's still not exactly comfortable living like that.

[Anonymous No.11886606]

>>11883695
It's just a poorly disguised way to extert power over other people.

[Anonymous No.11886610]

>>11883777
underchecked

[Anonymous No.11886623]

>>11883673
>Who exactly is going to colonize Mars?

I don't think anyone will, at least not in our lifetime.

>There's no economic benefit, just the opposite, it'll cost you a lot of money to get there.

You are right. It costs a lot of money, just like NASA does, and provides nothing, apart from the fact that "we can do it", which is supposed to be cool.

>You won't get land out of it.

Meh. I mean someone might get, but it would be without any actual value.

>Life will be shitty and hard and the novelty of people living on Mars will die down quickly.

With today's technology, people would live underground in shitty bunkers. They would go insane after a few months.

>What will Mars actually produce to fuel the growth of a colony?

Nothing, really.

>What will the colonists get out of living on Mars?

The whole thing is about escapism. They believe their problems would simply go away if they could go to another planet (see this: >>11886023 - yeah, a random guy from 4chan could create a better society on another planet, sure).
Or that they would be famous and important.

Also see these posts:
>>11884585
>>11885273

P.S.: Don't get me wrong. I love sci-fi, and it would be great to live on awesome planets, travel in space with some faster-than-light method, interact with aliens... but our current tech level can't give tus anything like those. Plus Mars is shit.

[Anonymous No.11886700]

I hate this modern world where everything has to be practical and easy or we won't do it. Imagine if they thought like that when they were discovering the world and found America

It's like humanity's spirit is dead

[Anonymous No.11886751]

>>11886700
>I hate this modern world where everything has to be practical and easy or we won't do it. Imagine if they thought like that when they were discovering the world and found America

Try again. America was discovered because Europeans wanted to have a practical and easy road to India for commerce. Progress is made by lazy people while dumb hard working dudes are inherently reactionary.

[Anonymous No.11886827]

>>11886751
>America was discovered because Europeans wanted to
>Europeans discovered America
Wrong.

>Progress is made by lazy people while dumb hard working dudes are inherently reactionary
Also very wrong. It's just that the work of lazy people is adopted by nearly everyone. That doesn't mean anything. Real progress, as in advancing to becoming a space civilization, is fucking hard work. I'm sorry for you that you are so uninspired.

>>11886700
Agree.

[Anonymous No.11886849]

>>11886827
>uninspired
>space civilization
>fucking hard work
>real progress
>agree
>wrong

[Anonymous No.11886852]

>>11886700
>And also because we want to slap russia's ass.

[Anonymous No.11886892]

>>11886849
Wow, compelling argument. I'm totally convinced now that all difficult endeavors are futile.

[Anonymous No.11886921]

>>11886827
>Wrong.
I obviously answered thinking about Colombus but okay then, the first people to arrive in Americas were looking for a easier and practical life, that's what migrants do.

>Real progress, as in advancing to becoming a space civilization, is fucking hard work. I'm sorry for you that you are so uninspired.

What are you on, all the SpaceX thing is about how to make space flight effortless, why throw away rockets and build new ones when you can just refurbish them for less effort? This is peak laziness anon. Boeing is doing this the hard way, are you a boeing dude maybe

[Anonymous No.11887356]

>>11884858
The first communication satellite DID bring benefit... because we built them when it mattered.
Saying we need to colonize Mars first is like a pioneer trying to settle in Antarctica because he heard tales of vast resources underground.
He might survive.
He'll satisfy his ego.
But he isn't going to do anything worthwhile for mankind.

>>11884953
Those early colonies didn't need a constant supply of food, hydroponic equipments and vacuum rated parts to survive.

>>11885067
I think you'll find no one hear arguing AGAINST inhabiting space.
The question have always been wether or not it's possible to "grow" a self-sufficient settlement on Mars when we know that even best case ISRU technologies will barely let us survive until the next trip home.

The old settlers had 10000 things they could do to prosper without supply, it was 100% inhabitable after all.
Mars settler will be incapable of producing any of the tools required before we develop the mostly-robotic technology. So since we will be in a development phase for 100years we might as well do it on a Moon that's 3 days away.

>>11885329
A space elevator on the moon would be much more interesting, topologically it would also result in it being very close to a Lagrange point. That's the best place you could have to prepare a colonization fleet (for the Jovian moons).

>>11886023
By your logic, once Mars is "settled" and start having "too many people" the next step is to run away from that purposeless existence on Mars and build on yet another place.
One could argue for colonization as a way to make sure Mankind survive, but what YOU are arguing for is simply becoming an human goo whose only purpose is to spread without better consideration like science.

Not arguing about population limit here, even if you want to maximize the number of minds available for science you should work on getting people working together first before escapism (in a place you won't survive without Earth help).

[Anonymous No.11887365]

>>11886606
Economics exists without people.

[Anonymous No.11887369]

>>11887356
>So since we will be in a development phase for 100years we might as well do it on a Moon that's 3 days away.

Moon lacks abundant volatiles (carbon, water, nitrogen) so it will never be self-sufficient. Moonbase is a good idea and Musk does want to land on the Moon before landing on Mars. But Mars is the best candidate for an actual colony.

[Anonymous No.11887370]

>this schizo faggot crying for a day and a half that no one should coloniza mars because it would be too hard
Get fucked.

[Anonymous No.11887372]

>>11887356
>when we know that even best case ISRU technologies will barely let us survive until the next trip home.

We don't really know that. Nobody has seriously tried to colonize Mars yet. Maybe required technologies will be quite simple to develop, meaning in the next several decades.

[Anonymous No.11887373]

>>11887370
>Replies: 126
>Posters: 62

[Anonymous No.11887484]

>>11887372
"We don't know" is a poor excuse to run blindly on the path least likely to tell you. Again, you may survive on Mars, you may get scientific data, but for economic growth you will need the technology and infrastructure ready first.

>Maybe required technologies will be quite simple to develop
More the reason to find that out on the nearby Moon rather than having to ship the latest iteration of NASA space poop challenge for a 2 years travel.
Mars proponent would have a point is we had molecular omnifactory requiring only electricity to produce anything. But if we had those, we would likely also have the means to live more easily anywhere than Mars.

>>11887369
Mars don't make those more available without heavy infrastructure and they aren't representative of how good a place is.
You can find those on other astral body in other forms -including the moon- and while in lesser proportion their sheer quantity will still be far beyond sufficient for local needs, with easier access thanks to lesser gravity.

If as anon say "Maybe required technologies will be quite simple to develop" maybe we will discovers a machine that make it easier to extract from Asteroid in a vacuum than on Mars.

The concept of colony outlived the era in which is was relevant. We needed people around because for a long time human were the workforce, now we have progressively better machines and we depend of huge infrastructures.
The harsh environment of space negate entirely the usefulness of human as anything but guinea-pig for space adaptation which you can research on the moon or in LEO.
So the only justification will have to be social or politic and by the time we can colonize Mars, colonizing the Jovian moons system will make more sense for future growth.

If we are lucky we will do both simultaneously because having full industries on the Moons would allow to build and refuel fleet.

[Anonymous No.11887510]

>>11887356
Dumb

[Anonymous No.11887517]

>>11883673
Going to Mars:
Cons: no economic benefit
Pros: It's Mars
I believe the pros strongly outweigh the cons.

[Anonymous No.11887539]

>>11884753
>Someone who do want the best for mankind would know we have to get rid of capitalism
Oh no you're actually serious, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.11887540]

>>11883673
Because there is nothing left on Earth to do for humanity but slowly rot into nothingness.
Space exploration is the only chance for us to survive and have new problems to solve.
Economy-oriented thinking will just make sure we'll be buried under megastructure made of infinite brands of female hygiene products and differently flavored soda cans.

[Anonymous No.11887553]

>>11886065
>>11886172

Well, transhumans/cyborgs will definitely be the most-suited colonists of outer space, which may even necessitate that one becomes a transhuman/cyborg with it's unprecedentedly extreme selective pressures.

[Anonymous No.11887559]

>>11887553
This is true, if we could colonize space with robots then remotely upload our consciousness to those robots I think that'd be the best option.

[Anonymous No.11887571]

>>11887539
>siding with plutocrat
Ready for you to call others commies. You've probably been brainwashed to think capitalism is the one and only ethical economic system an the wealth you generate should go to the owners/share-holders and their personal paradise. That is until they can replace you with robot.

>>11887559
Just make sure it don't end like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E

[Anonymous No.11887579]

>>11887553

That's a cool scifi book idea.

[Anonymous No.11887580]

>>11887571
Please refrain from vomiting buzzwords into the post field, ESL. Try getting a job.

[Anonymous No.11887644]

>>11887484
this x100000 and moreover scientific data can be readily acquired with automated drones and absolutely does not require expenditure of human life. One of the major criticisms of Mars One was that their "reality TV show" idea implies that as viewership/interest peters off, so too does funding and then you end up with a whole heap of time and money spent on a few frozen corpses. Meanwhile we've already proven that we can send people to/fro the moon and we've demonstrated traces of water on the moon

Why not do this shit in stages? It makes more sense anyway

[Anonymous No.11887653]

>>11883673
Just getting away from people like you forever is good enough reason to do it.

[Anonymous No.11887659]

>>11886751
>America was discovered because Europeans wanted to have a practical and easy road to India for commerce
Sorry, but Columbus was 500 years late to the party.

[Anonymous No.11887882]

>>11883673
Literally all the resources are in space.

[Anonymous No.11887890]

>Fuck ton of minerals
>Less gravity which makes lift-offs less expensive
>Mars' soil is actually suitable for growing crops. Just take the perclorate out, add in some fertilizers and you're done
>Window to asteroid mining
>Space Tourism
>Prospect of having a new way of life
It's worth doing

[Anonymous No.11887898]

>>11887644
Mars One is an attempt to guilt-trip nation into paying under 'noble' reasons.
"keep paying or the astronauts die"

[Anonymous No.11887900]

>>11883673
We get this retarded thread every week give it a break faggot

[Anonymous No.11887947]

>>11883673
Here are some reason
>better Asteroid detection
>Resources
>Experience and Advance in space travel (which might be useful one day)
>low Gravity and samples allow additonal scientific knowledge or proof shit we calculated on earth

[Anonymous No.11887952]

>>11887947
edit: there is water on the planet so there is a pretty high chance that there are plenty of ore deposits

[Anonymous No.11888211]

>>11884025
you know what has an even lower delta V cost? Asteroids. Asteroids have precious metals at much higher concentrations than Mars does. I am also fucking serious about the nuclear transmutation part. Nuclear fission produces ruthenium, rhodium, and palladium as by products. Tonnage quantities of such metals have been extracted from nuclear waste. And that's a significant amount because yearly production is 10s of tons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals

[Anonymous No.11888237]

>>11887890
the first born martians would be fucked from the gravity desu
theres no way their bones would grown correctly

[Anonymous No.11888463]

>>11888237
likely, but we don't know for sure

[Anonymous No.11888549]

>>11888463
It would be nice if someone would create rat centrifuge habitat set for Mars gravity (and another for Moon gravity while we are at it) and attach it to the ISS. That would at least give us an idea of how low gravity effects mammalian development.

And there are options if the low gravity proves detrimental to fetal development. One would be to create a big circular train track with banked walls, and have a habitat train for the pregnant women & young children running around it. Any serious colonization effort will need to build lots of train tracks anyways for bulk goods movement around Mars.

[Anonymous No.11888554]

>>11883673
We are far from it. We haven't even started colonizing the moon yet. Too many challenges to be done in a proper, sustainable and safe manner. Too early.

[Anonymous No.11888623]

>>11888211

Well the asteroid belt is closer to Mars than to Earth so I see it as a win win situation

[Anonymous No.11888698]

>>11886623
>yeah, a random guy from 4chan could create a better society on another planet, sure.

No one in particular would be creating a better society, nor do I think cultural change would be a conscious effort. Culture is a by-product of the environment. You change culture by changing the environment.

By sheer necessity, a unique Martian culture would have to evolve in order for people to survive, and I think it has a decent chance to be better than what people are accustomed to in industrial societies.

>>11887356
By your logic, once Mars is "settled" and start having "too many people" the next step is to run away from that purposeless existence on Mars and build on yet another place.

A developed Mars would not necessarily mimic the conditions of a developed western (or eastern) civilization.

>One could argue for colonization as a way to make sure Mankind survive, but what YOU are arguing for is simply becoming an human goo whose only purpose is to spread without better consideration like science.

That's an interesting conclusion you've jumped to. I'd say I'm arguing for societal heterogeneity via introducing humans to an environment vastly more different and more challenging than what we're used to.

Frankly, I think embracing the challenges of new worlds would do more for science and engineering than anything here on earth could ever hope to do.

[Anonymous No.11888702]

Idk ask my genius cousin... He works for NASA so he must be a genius.


Such an asshole

[Anonymous No.11889026]

>>11885311
R I P P E N
I
P
P
E
N

[Anonymous No.11889495]

>>11888698
This is IMO the logical conclusion of what you suggested.
Even if...
>A developed Mars would not necessarily mimic the conditions of a developed western (or eastern) civilization.
...lead into a radically different governance and education system what you did first is promote "Escapism" as the purpose of human, a dangerous one as you now have 2 (competing?) system instead of a self-improving one.

Many Mars proponent think they just have to get the project funded and then "something great" will grow from the homogeneous group who was allowed to migrate (by economy gates).
But after the inevitable Martian revolution do you foresee a multi-planet biohacked human Federation stretching across the entire solar system, or the genocide of loser planets over a economic disagreement with the next <social Ubermensch>?

>Frankly, I think embracing the challenges of new worlds would do more for science and engineering than anything here on earth could ever hope to do.
I think we cannot understand how to live on another (sterile) world until we've mastered our own (and stop sterilizing it).
Bioengineering is literally the most important part of the equation discussed, we don't need another gravity well to develop new engines or space habitat. ISRU don't require human to shovel space dirt into the machine and we'll still need to work on a social framework conductive to science.

The typical reasoning for Mars colony play it up as the easiest, therefore the least challenging one.
I will argue myself it's also the least efficient way.
We should be aiming for self-contained biosphere/hydroponic/bio-assembler system and automated ISRU from everywhere in the solar system.
Developing those industries along asteroid captures will be faster in cislunar space than upgrading a glorified Mars-lab on life-support.

[Anonymous No.11890171]

>>11883673
Ever wanted to be a farmer on a world with no aphids, no whitefly, no locusts, no other vermin. Your job could be much easier.

I'm just kidding though. I'm sure the gods who run this human zoo will make sure these pests have a permanent presence on Mars also.

[Anonymous No.11890188]

>>11883673
Ever wanted to be a farmer on a world with no aphids, no whitefly, no locusts, no other vermin? Your job could be much easier.

I'm just kidding though. I'm sure the gods who run this human zoo will make sure these pests have a permanent presence on Mars also.

[Anonymous No.11890217]

>>11889495
You say those technologies will be faster to develop, so why aren't you doing it? Elon is building the rockets, and they will be ready soon.

[Anonymous No.11890222]

Like all things futurist, its a fantasy that glosses over the actual details of the work required and when you get into the details, you realize it's fundamentally untenable regardless of effort.

[Anonymous No.11890437]

>>11890188
they will migrate to mars from earth, just like the rats and other creatures migrated from yuropoor to muttmerica

[Anonymous No.11890656]

>>11885311
R I P P E N

[Anonymous No.11890984]

"Value" is more than just price.

[Anonymous No.11891207]

>>11890217
Elon need more than a space truck, he'll be lucky to be paid to make the Moonbase where the real work will be done.

[Anonymous No.11891681]

>>11883810
They all paid $50 so they tell their friends. That's all. Actually a cheap price tag to pretend for a moment they were interesting.

[Anonymous No.11891694]

>>11884257
If it were reversed you would see the dust clouds drifting away while its still high and getting sucked back in just before it landed.

[Anonymous No.11891697]

>>11883673
>Who exactly is going to colonize Mars?
Martians?

[Anonymous No.11891722]

>>11883673
I have got a brilliant idea. Lets set up a self sufficient domed complex in the middle of a desert and go and live there! We could grow food and and extract water and and live under ground and and mine sand and stuff!

We could do all that and pretend its Mars by living for 6 months in a shipping container before we get there and then adding a 100,000% cost to anything we bring in from the outside, which we must pay for from our...umm...from all the sand we mine!


NEXT! Let do the same but under the sea this time!

THEN! At the South pole!

[Anonymous No.11891752]

>>11887517
For setting up a scientific base for further exploration and research, and as a base for supporting further space flights? Sure. Absolutely. For colonization? That's just plain ignorant and delusional. Go and colonize the Marianna's trench instead, that would make far more sense

[Truth No.11891775]

>>11883673
Within the zodiac, Mars is the planet related to War and Ambition. Probably they are preoccupied with the idea of colonizing Mars as a symbolic gesture so that back on earth, the country responsible for having colonized mars will be vested with the symbolic/mythological aspects of Mars.

[Anonymous No.11891807]

>>11884032
>Everyone knew there was. That was the whole point of sailing West. Not exploring or dumb shit, but economic benefit.
No they didn't. The whole point was exploring and more importantly civilising/Christianising. Also a big portion of settlers were just losers kicked out of Europe and had horrible lives. The only reason for economic gains in the Americas was extremely high immigration, it took hundreds of years for it to be worth it.

[Anonymous No.11892347]

>>11891722
>In the desert
>Underwater
>At the north pole
Each of those will be easier than on Mars.

[Anonymous No.11893837]

>>11883673
>I don't get it. Who exactly is going to colonize Mars? There's no economic benefit, just the opposite

This is why European Royalty had to finance exploration of the New World

jew bankers cant comprehend out side, does it make the little coins clank in the tin

[Anonymous No.11893884]

>>11893837
There was great economic benefit in the New World.

[Anonymous No.11893959]

To get out from under the thumb of the UN.

[Anonymous No.11894104]

>>11886065
PRAISE THE OMNISSIAH!

[Anonymous No.11894196]

>>11891697
I predict Martin and Martina will be the most popular names there.

[Anonymous No.11894311]

>>11883972
Good luck getting good scientists to come with you, they like breathing air outside without a suit, and going to the beach. you know, things you cant do on mars

[Anonymous No.11894322]

>>11884308
maybe when the planets are at their closest points, that only happens at certain times. the max flight time is something like two years if improperly timed

[Anonymous No.11894373]

>>11884061

[Anonymous No.11894383]

>>11890188
"I am but a humble Martian mushroom farmer..."

[Anonymous No.11894397]

>>11893884
except when it bankrupted entire countries

[Anonymous No.11894407]

>>11891722
we already know there's life in the deserts and the south pole though, duh

[Anonymous No.11894512]

>>11884061
>it has 10K people instead of 1 million Elon envisioned
>2050
Let's be realist here, he'll bankrupt SpaceX to get 20 people here, lose 10% of the rockets and need to beg the government to send them a rescue ship.

[Anonymous No.11894515]

>>11891807
>more importantly civilising/Christianising.
That was more the Spanish, but even most of their expeditions were about finding gold.
Early colonists in Jamestown similarly spent more time looking for gold than building a functioning community, and Jamestown became an exporter of raw materials to England.
The Plymouth Bay colony was also supposed to land in Virginia and send raw materials back.
Most settlement took place under the auspices of Joint Stock Companies given charter by the crown, who sought to produce wealth for their stockholders through resource harvesting and mining.

[Anonymous No.11895313]

>>11883673
I mean, the idea of Colonizing Mars sounds awesome at a glance, but cost & technology limitations aside, the first wave of martian children would be subjected to possible deformity due to Mars' lower gravity, which could potentially lead to severe health problems down the line; I am no medical professional, but I'm sure that having a spine that resembles the Snake from that one Nokia game is not really healthy.
I believe that at least one incident of this phenomenon was reported, where an Astronaut from the ISS got spine problems after a prolongued stay.
I don't remember how long he stayed, nor know if an update about his condition has been released.

That being said, ¿What do you guys think about colonizing other planets?

[Anonymous No.11895637]

>>11883673
You're a fucking retard who doesn't actually understand economics. Everything has a value somewhere. If Elon can get to Mars and refine rocket fuel, that fuel has value because people want to go to Mars and other places in the solar system. It doesn't matter if it's state funded or just pleasure cruises for the time being; a kilo of fuel in low orbit around Mars has an insane amount of value that SpaceX can and probably will monopolize.

We need to come up with a term for people like you, like brainlets but for imagination.

[Anonymous No.11895675]

>>11888211
>unique
The problem with asteroids is that they don't have enough gravity to de orbit something coming in hot.
Its the reason why all the missions to them have been ion drives.

[Anonymous No.11895693]

>>11895675
doesn't matter. The overall delta V cost is still lower for asteroids.
>>11888623
phasing is a bitch. While delta V costs are lower, transfer opportunities occur less often because Mars' orbit is larger. Reaching an asteroid in a reasonable amount of time from Mars may require moving to a smaller radius orbit.

[Anonymous No.11895707]

>you won't get land out of it
citation needed. I'm going to plant my flag on a big piece of that martian pie.

[Anonymous No.11896573]

>>11895707
>why yes, I do own 50,000 acres and some ice deposits, how could you tell?

[Anonymous No.11896574]

>muh shekels are more important than the colonization of a planet

[Anonymous No.11896689]

>>11896574
It's not about "importance" you retard. It's a fact that colonization can't happen without money. Nothing can change economic realities like that except for massive government intervention.
>>11895637
>that fuel has value because [there is demand]
No fucking shit, Sherlock. The question is: does it have enough value to build a city or even a colony on Mars? Is the demand high enough?

[Anonymous No.11896784]

>>11886587
>not exactly comfortable living like that.
Millions of people live in apartment buildings and then go to work in other similar buildings. You only need about 3m of regolith over your head and it only really needs to be over your head.
You don't need to build military bunkers - the requirements are very different.

[Anonymous No.11897369]

>>11887559

Or just augment the human body with cybernetics and GMOs

>>11887579

In 1903, moon landings were a French sci-fi film idea.

[Anonymous No.11897373]

>>11883673
>Someone explain this to me, because I don't get it. Who exactly is going to colonize Mars?

Me

> There's no economic benefit, just the opposite

Don’t give a fuck and neither does Elon Musk

[Anonymous No.11897377]

>>11888237
>>11888463
>>11888549


See >>11887553

[Anonymous No.11897404]

>>11897369
>augment the human body with GMOs
Yes, lets xenograft a GMO plant onto some humans, maybe they'll be able to do photosynthesis!
I'm just 'avin a chuckle m8 but srsly a GMO is a genetically modified organism, you don't augment humans with GMO's, you turn humans into GMOs :)))

[Anonymous No.11897437]

>>11897404

> turn humans into GMOs

If the Spacenoids need to be genetically altered then so be it

[Anonymous No.11898235]

>>11891722
how is that useful or cool bro? On mars it would be cool, it would be like a backup of our civilisation and the harsh conditions and genetic isolation will produce a different kind of human with enough generations.
Your idea (although i understand it's ironic) is shit and you should terminate your own life buttboy

[Anonymous No.11898695]

>>11897404
>you don't augment humans with GMO's
Consider that you could modify gut bacteria to be more efficient or process things that you might not consider "food" and convert it to energy.