>there's no real solution to this equation so let's just make one up >literally called an IMAGINARY number, in that it doesn't exist >this invalidates any mathematics containing it because it's built on a lie I hate the current state of mathematics. How can a field be so devoid of logic?

File: 5 KB, 300x300, 12422521251984757845Math_i_square.svg.med.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:19:16 2020 No.11875580 [Reply] [Original]

>there's no real solution to this equation so let's just make one up
>literally called an IMAGINARY number, in that it doesn't exist
>this invalidates any mathematics containing it because it's built on a lie
I hate the current state of mathematics. How can a field be so devoid of logic?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:20:22 2020 No.11875589 File: 764 KB, 200x200, 3E8C7382-8785-4C07-82BB-89FB0B3B7099.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:22:13 2020 No.11875597 >>11875580 >current state you're about 500 years too late do you think hyperbolic pairs of pants are more real, because pants exist in the real world?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:37:33 2020 No.11875663 >>11875580 >>literally called an IMAGINARY number, in that it doesn't exist Wrong it's called a lateral number

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:39:40 2020 No.11875673 >>11875580 I can't tell if you're trolling or serious. Either way you're an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:40:45 2020 No.11875675 >>11875673 Give me i apples. I'm waiting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:42:57 2020 No.11875682 >>11875675 give me 10^100 apples I'm waiting

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:44:26 2020 No.11875689 File: 8 KB, 225x225, iapples.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11875675

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 22:59:37 2020 No.11875762 >>11875682 False equivalency.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:03:34 2020 No.11875778 >>11875675 You do realise that one unit is not the same as the number 1? You can't give anyone a number, i or otherwise. Imaginary numbers are just as "real" as real numbers. They are just a set of axioms dictating some logical rules.

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:06:10 2020 No.11875788

>>11875778
>You can't give anyone a number, i or otherwise. Imaginary numbers are just as "real" as real numbers.
These are contradicting statements. If imaginary numbers are just as "real" as real numbers...
1. why is it called IMAGINARY
2. why can't you give i apples? I can give 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. apples but cannot give i. it definitely doesn't seem as real as the other numbers to me.

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:10:21 2020 No.11875809
File: 415 KB, 480x238, (you).gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11875788
>>11875675
Give me [math] \begin{bmatrix} 1&0 \\ 0& 1\end{bmatrix} [/math] apples

>>11875788
>1. why is it called IMAGINARY
It's not, they are the lateral numbers
2. why can't you give i apples? I can give 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. apples but cannot give i. it definitely doesn't seem as real as the other numbers to me.
See above. The identity matrix is an element of a field, just like [math] i [/math] is. It's just a different field from [math] \mathbb{R} [/math]

Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:11:49 2020 No.11875816

>>11875788
1) It's just an arbitrary label. You could call them cocksucking numbers and nothing would change.

2) numbers are abstract concepts that can be used to represent real world quantities but the reverse is not true, how would you even take the sqrt of an apple?

>>	El Arcón Mon Jul 6 23:16:53 2020 No.11875829 File: 377 KB, 620x350, TIMESAND___Detractors1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] No, you've got it all wrong. Imaginary numbers can exist but it's numbers in the neighborhood of infinity which are crackpot nonsense pseudery.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:20:13 2020 No.11875840 >>11875829 fuck off schizo

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:43:49 2020 No.11875903 >>11875762 fucking how? give me -3 apples give my e/pi apples give me exactly 15/57 apples you can only give someone a natural number of something, its totally unimportant what you can give someone

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 6 23:54:11 2020 No.11875935 fuck off retard. it doesn't matter if it's imaginary or not because it was practical applications

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:04:02 2020 No.11875959 >>11875903 >give me -3 apples okay, I'll take 3 apples from you >give my e/pi apples okay, I'll you less than a full apple. >give me exactly 15/57 apples again I can cut the apple in to 57 parts and give you 15.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:05:06 2020 No.11875962 >>11875903 >e/pi those are "infinite" numbers and therefore bulshit "numbers" too

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:06:22 2020 No.11875968 holy shit take some fucking number theory classes before you start spouting off asinine bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:08:37 2020 No.11875976 >>11875968 if you need to take a "theory" class to understand it it's probably bullshit

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:08:48 2020 No.11875977 >>11875962 >source: my ass

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:09:46 2020 No.11875979 >>11875977 you don't think e and pi go on forever?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:10:21 2020 No.11875981 >>11875962 your 3.14" inch dick isn't infinity long deal with it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:11:52 2020 No.11875988 >>11875976 fine, take complex analysis then come back and let us know if you have the same opinion about i.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:16:15 2020 No.11876004 >>11875988 How about you take a logic intro class and get back to me? Retard.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:18:39 2020 No.11876008

>>11876004
woah woah woah. You sound pretty angry there friend. Something happen? Did you fail your pre-algebra test again?It's okay buddy, one day you will learn all about the wonders of modern mathematics and how every piece is rigorously defined. Even if some structures seem a little spooky.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:18:54 2020 No.11876009 >>11876004 >i can't math

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:19:37 2020 No.11876010 >>11876008 I'm not going to tell you an imaginary number is real just because you have autism, bud.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:35:58 2020 No.11876059 math phd here. I have anime girl's feet fetish and I hate myself. Thanks for coming to my tedtalk!

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 00:49:35 2020 No.11876092

>>11875959
>>give me -3 apples
>okay, I'll take 3 apples from you
I dont have any for you to take retard
>>give my e/pi apples
>okay, I'll you less than a full apple.
less than a full apple isnt e/pi
>>give me exactly 15/57 apples
>again I can cut the apple in to 57 parts and give you 15.
no you literally cant, what if the number of atoms in the apple isnt a multiple of 57

>>11875962
>those are "infinite" numbers
every single real number is just as "infinite" as e or pi, theyre all formed from Cauchy sequences or Dedekind cuts
So unless you want to argue that 1 is a bullshit number too, you had better neck yourself

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 01:55:57 2020 No.11876239 >>11875580 can't solve x^3-5x+1=0 without imaginary numbers even though all three solutions are normal real numbers https://www.google.com/search?q=y=x^3-5x%2B1 https://youtu.be/_qvp9a1x2UM?t=3m

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 02:00:45 2020 No.11876246 >>11875962 e = pi = 3 Nothing infinite here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 02:42:40 2020 No.11876353 >>11875675 I can give you i*apple

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 03:43:32 2020 No.11876476 File: 299 KB, 1500x1500, 6000200094514.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11875675 there you go

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 03:47:56 2020 No.11876487 >>11876092 >what if the number of atoms in the apple isnt a multiple of 57 divide each atom into 57 equal parts, take 15 parts of each atom

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 03:56:26 2020 No.11876505 >>11875689 OP BTFO

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 03:58:59 2020 No.11876512 >>11876092 >I dont have any for you to take retard And I don't have any to give you, mongoloid. It's hypothetical.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:22:38 2020 No.11876544

>>11875580
there are no imaginary numbers
complex numbers are just 2-pairs of real numbers
the operations defined on the pairs of them are different than what they would be if they were just real numbers
it's like operator overloading
very disappointing

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:24:37 2020 No.11876548 >>11876544 there are no decimal numbers decimal numbers are just 2-pairs of integers >this is how stupid you sound

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:27:34 2020 No.11876550

>>11876548
>there are no decimal numbers
>decimal numbers are just 2-pairs of integers
>>this is how stupid you sound

decimal numbers include irrationals, which can't be represented as pairs of integers. rational numbers can be represented as equivalence classes of pairs of integers, with the appropriate operations. why not?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:30:37 2020 No.11876558 >>11876550 >can't be represented as pairs of integers sure they can int1.int2

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 04:47:52 2020 No.11876580 >>11876558 what about infinite decimals >inb4 no such thing

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 09:40:12 2020 No.11877087 >>11876476 I don't get it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 09:42:07 2020 No.11877092 >>11877087 that's because it's imaginary aka image

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 09:44:42 2020 No.11877105 >>11875689 How will op ever recover?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:04:14 2020 No.11877171 Wow this board is abysmally bad. Like not even in a funny way. Just flat out bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:06:42 2020 No.11877179 >>11876476 lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:12:40 2020 No.11877201 File: 294 KB, 1500x1500, 6000200094514.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11877087 >>11877092 this is 1 apple

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:15:34 2020 No.11877218 >There's no integer solution to this integer division >lol let's just invent "fractions" and call it good

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:16:50 2020 No.11877224 >>11877201 this is not a pipe

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:17:52 2020 No.11877229

Here is my view of these imaginary numbers as a physics student: they can be represented by 2 by 2 real matrices, but two of those numbers repeats twice.

Physical or any meaningful calculation has to start and end with real numbers. But the fun part is that you can use imaginary numbers as helpful tool in the middle of calculations. For examble you can break the sine function as two complex exponentials which have all the properties that exponentials have. For example differation and multiplication are easier with them than with sine function. But after you have done that you will have to put it all together and you will end up with a real solution. One might do all the mathematics without any of help from these imaginary numbers, but it would be time consuming.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:22:08 2020 No.11877247 >>11875663 Sup, Gauss

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 10:28:55 2020 No.11877275 >>11875580 Imagine getting mad about an abstract extension of an already abstract concept. I wonder if you understand that the simple operation of adding two elements is an abstraction in itself

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:05:18 2020 No.11877393 >>11877229 >you always start and end with real numbers false >one may do all the mathematics without the help of imaginary numbers false physics is a mental illness

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:11:29 2020 No.11877420 Baiting or not, ur retarded Indeed, ur retardation is invariant under baiting status >>11876476 based

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:19:47 2020 No.11877459 >>11877393 Of course you can. You just have to use a subset of M(2) such as any element in that subset behaves similarly to a complex number.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:23:21 2020 No.11877471

>>11877459
Those are the complex numbers. They're field isomorphic, diffeomorphic as manifolds and in fact biholomorphic when you equip the subset of M(2) with the appropriate complex structure. They're the same fucking thing. Just because you didn't use i doesn't mean you're somehow not using complex numbers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:25:33 2020 No.11877484 >>11877275 1 apple + 1 apple = 2 apples That's not abstract.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:41:42 2020 No.11877533 >>11877471 this

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:42:24 2020 No.11877538

>>11877484

You are using numbers, there is no "2" in nature, you are using a notation to express a perceived variation in a propriety of the elements you see.

Numbers, languages and pretty much everything else are interpretative structures humans use because they can attach properties to elements in the natural world so they can use them as tools but real objects do not have intrinsic use so we pretty much see only their use but the process of giving an item a "function" or a "quality", like you did with the operation of counting apples, refers to an abstraction.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 11:56:31 2020 No.11877579 >>11875689 I bet you feel pretty stupid now, OP, don't you

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 12:19:27 2020 No.11877658 >>11877484 i apple = apple rotated by 90 degrees That's not abstract.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 12:23:07 2020 No.11877669 >>11876487 That would be extremely painful

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 12:23:19 2020 No.11877670 >i dont understand it, so i dont like it, so its wrong and everyone else is wrong: The thread

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:25:41 2020 No.11877827 The letter i is for current. The letter j is the superior symbol for an imaginary number.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:29:42 2020 No.11877842 >>11877827 *jmaginary number

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:38:14 2020 No.11877870 >>11877827 hello papa flammy

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:48:18 2020 No.11877899 >>11875962 t. CS nigger

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:48:40 2020 No.11877901 >>11877842 >>11877870 Go back to your fucking facebook group. >>11877899 Why the racism?

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:49:06 2020 No.11877903

>>11876512
the point is you cant fucking do it
you cant demonstrate negative apples, so why does it matter that you cant demonstrate i apples
they arent fucking counting numbers of course you cant have them in the real world
that doesnt detract from their usefulness

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:49:33 2020 No.11877906 >>11877901 >Why the racism? Go back to your fucking facebook group

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:51:20 2020 No.11877913 >>11877906 Board culture. Lurk more before posting, or go back to your fucking containment board.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:52:26 2020 No.11877917 >>11877229 >physics >representation theory >everything is a matrix, guys yeah, that checks out

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 13:55:38 2020 No.11877928
File: 2.49 MB, 250x150, 1453724013892.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11877913
>Board culture. Lurk more before posting, or go back to your fucking containment board.
HAHAHA bro I know it's summer but you can't post the "y racsim" AND "go back to facebook" in the same post. You gotta separate that shitif you want to be taken seriously. Lurk moar

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:09:02 2020 No.11877961 summerfags

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 14:18:04 2020 No.11877986 File: 181 KB, 500x500, 1562776842956.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11875675 Here, anon. One pear.

Anonymous Tue Jul 7 15:49:30 2020 No.11878313

>>11877393
I said any meaningful calculation. You pure math autist have problems like finding roots of faggot functions like Z^2+C. Complex numbers are just a helpful tool. Problems starting and/or ending with complex numbers are absolutely meaningless.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 15:50:58 2020 No.11878320 >>11877928 Board culture. Lurk more before posting, please. The "Why the x?" meme is well known on /sci/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 15:51:40 2020 No.11878322 >>11877842 >>11877870 CS detected.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 15:52:01 2020 No.11878326 >>11878313 They have meaning. "Meaning" does not imply a concrete realization in the physical world.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 16:45:36 2020 No.11878509 File: 58 KB, 1280x720, 1592088430733.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11878320 Bro I know the meme, read my post again retard

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 17:38:10 2020 No.11878724 >>11875580 Of course they don't exist, it's an abstract construction. Get into abstract algebra and then maybe you'll be able to comprehend why math is this way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 17:39:11 2020 No.11878726 >>11878724 Well, I'd like to modify my point, they do kinda exist, but not as straightforward as natural numbers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:04:39 2020 No.11878795 >>11877538 >there is no "2" in nature Yes there is. You have 2 ears. You can't have i ears.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:08:45 2020 No.11878803 >>11878795 You're assuming my two ears are 100% identical which just isn't true (or possible)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:09:19 2020 No.11878804 >>11878803 No I'm not, I'm counting the number of ears you have. You have 2.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:11:10 2020 No.11878809 File: 162 KB, 667x1000, ear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11878795 >You can't have i ears. here is i ears for you

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:19:37 2020 No.11878825 >>11878804 you have to artificially define what an ear is

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:35:35 2020 No.11878865 >>11878804 No I have 1 left ear and one right ear. Those are different objects

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:43:07 2020 No.11878891 >>11878795 I can have "I" ears if I define it in a different way, you have ears, I can say you have 3 ears because in my, logically coherent system, everybody has 3 ears.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:46:33 2020 No.11878900 >>11875580 Complex Numbers literally have a huge application in physics and engineering. Imaginary numbers are just as real as negative numbers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:47:30 2020 No.11878904 >>11878900 >imaginary numbers are real >imaginary >real lol I can't breathe

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 18:48:58 2020 No.11878910 >>11877538 What about those “2” repeating digits lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 19:31:33 2020 No.11879046 >>11878904 I mean math is purely imaginary in it self. But that doesn't mean it's not real. :D

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 19:39:37 2020 No.11879056 >there's no real solution to this equation so let's just make one up >ok >wait >NOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST INVENT A SOLUTION TO [math]0\cdot 0^{-1}=1[/math]

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 19:44:15 2020 No.11879067 >>11879056 people have tried to divide by zero already and it leads no where and gets nothing out of it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 19:59:56 2020 No.11879101 >>11879046 >I mean math is purely imaginary in it self. No it's not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 20:08:54 2020 No.11879119 File: 20 KB, 548x297, electrical-engineering-rotation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Anyone who believes in imaginary numbers needs to turn j^4 degrees and leave.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 20:49:47 2020 No.11879203 everyone talks about imaginary numbers not being real, but what about negative numbers? i can't give you negative 3 apples personally i am for getting rid of them both.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 7 20:50:53 2020 No.11879206 >>11877658 -1 apples =/= apple rotated by 2 quadrants

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 01:14:55 2020 No.11879892 >>11879119 kmaginary numbers > jmaginary numbers

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:49:19 2020 No.11880159 >>11879206 of course it is

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:55:08 2020 No.11880178 >>11875675 give me -1 apples.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 03:57:57 2020 No.11880184 File: 302 KB, 1500x1500, 6000200094514.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11880178 there you go

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 04:05:02 2020 No.11880204 >>11880184 Why did you give him i^2 apples? It's impossible t. op

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 05:01:42 2020 No.11880352 >hey there isnt a number that satisfies [math]x^2=-1[/math] >just made one up lol >hey we cant explain phenomenon X with current theory >just made one up lol coincidence?

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 05:09:57 2020 No.11880372
File: 183 KB, 1000x999, m9mdpytr-1390904776.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

These "bullshit" numbers that you keep rambling about describe real things and are integral in many of the things you use and take for granted. For example, electromagnetic waves are described using complex exponentials, but you'd hardly argue that light doesn't exist.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 06:02:58 2020 No.11880473

let's say you are selling land so you write a negative number. you're selling it in squares but you want to just use one length. but it just so happens if you square a negative you get a positive. so to keep the length and area both negative you throw some is in there. is that so hard? or is this still witchcraft lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 06:06:59 2020 No.11880477 >>11875689 REKT

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 06:25:06 2020 No.11880510 >>11880372 >For example, electromagnetic waves are described using complex exponentials Partly true only. Yes, for example sine function can be described by two complex exponentials but it's still non-complex per se.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 06:35:40 2020 No.11880524 >>11877917 But matrices are an array of numbers so everything is an array of numbers

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 07:59:59 2020 No.11880635 >>11875689 winner

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 08:19:53 2020 No.11880667 >>11875675 give me 1 apples*oranges, i'm waiting

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 08:21:45 2020 No.11880673 >>11877669 dividing most atoms would take more energy than you'd get out, so the only painful thing would be your power bill

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 08:22:37 2020 No.11880675 >>11877669 You're a big guy.

Anonymous Wed Jul 8 09:17:10 2020 No.11880778

>>11880510
Depends on the approach. In Diffractometry, it's common to use complex exponentials which immensely simplify the math (couldn't even begin to imagine how it would look like using sine/cosine functions) where the imaginary part corresponds to a phase difference between combined waves

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 09:19:51 2020 No.11880784 >>11880778 >>11880510 But yes, i didn't explain what I meant correctly, of course you wouldn't need an imaginary part to describe a wave

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 13:30:03 2020 No.11881401 >>11876476 based

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 14:02:29 2020 No.11881484 >>11875580 >I'm too stupid to understand this math concept, therefore it's wrong. Go back to high school.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 14:13:12 2020 No.11881503 >>11880778 The electric energy transmission system also uses imaginary numbers. Imagine shutting a huge important system like that down just because someone has theoretical skruples Oh we just did that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 14:17:04 2020 No.11881507 ITT we discover that math is fake and numbers dont exist

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 15:13:15 2020 No.11881614 >>11878795 you are brain dead, grasping this concept is a real "separates the men from the boys" point

>>	Anonymous Wed Jul 8 16:19:19 2020 No.11881759 >>11881507 that's true though show me a number in real life

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/sci/ - Science & Math