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/sci/ - Science & Math

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1169944 No.1169944 [Reply] [Original]

Atheists assert that only matter exists.
This is a positive statement.
As such, the burden of proof is on the atheist.
He must prove that only matter exists.

Theists have a "lack of belief" in materialism.
This isn't a belief; it's a lack of belief.
As such, theists need not prove that materialism is wrong.
The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claims--the atheist.

Discuss.

>> No.1169951

>assert that only matter exists

stopped reading there.

>> No.1169954

>Atheists assert

I stopped there.

>> No.1169959
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1169959

no

>> No.1169956

>>1169951

Am I wrong?
Is this not true?

>> No.1169962

>>1169956

Surely the burden of proof lies upon those who assert that there exists a higher power.

>> No.1169965

Flawed logic, etc

>> No.1169967

atheism asserts nothing, theism asserts the existence of god, next

>> No.1169975

>Atheists assert that only matter exists.
Nope, it should be more like only energy exists (or whatever), but I see your point,

NO atheist claims this, an atheist claims that only matter exists, until you can prove otherwise, Theists have no proof to back up their beliefs (otherwise they'd be atheists)

>> No.1169980

Atheists don't assert anything, it's just a term for people who don't happen to believe in a god or gods.

As it happens, some atheists believe in things like a soul or an afterlife, and indeed some atheists are even religious (some schools of Buddhism are atheistic). They just don't think there's anyone running the show.

>> No.1169982

You are wrong. Theists do not believe in a lack of materialism, they believe in a god. They assert that there is a god. They need to prove that with something other than circular logic.

Even by your argument, the only way to prove that ONLY matter exists is the prove that there is NOTHING else, which we cannot do. It lies on the theists once again.

>> No.1170003

> Atheists assert that only matter exists.
This is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny.

>> No.1170007

this is backwards

by definition atheists are the ones with a lack of belief and theists have the believe

i know it's a troll though so good job

>> No.1170009

>>1169982

>You are wrong. Theists do not believe in a lack of materialism, they believe in a god.

Theists believe in a lot of things.
Atheists also believe in a lot of things.

These terms denote certain groupings of beliefs.

>> No.1170018

>>1170009
SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS

By definition, a theist believes in a god and an atheist does not. There is nothing about materialism or matter involved in this. It's simply believing there is or is not a god. Atheists do not believe in a god, theists do.

If the burden of proof is on ANYBODY, it's on the theists.

>> No.1170019

>>1169975

>>Atheists assert that only matter exists.
>Nope, it should be more like only energy exists (or whatever), but I see your point,

BS

>> No.1170021

>>1169959

Don't say that!
For someone who doesn't speak english very well, these threads are excellent opportunities to practice, same goes for training your arguing skills, a lot of my real life arguing techniques and I've learned and mastered in the endless flamewars that is the internet.

>> No.1170032
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1170032

>>1169944

>Atheists assert that only matter exists.
LMAO, THATS WRONG FAGGOT

GTFO TROLL!

>> No.1170040

>>1170018

Technically, a democrat is a proponent of democracy, and yet, it really isn't that simple, is it?

>> No.1170044

>>1170018

Can you name me an important atheist who believed in the divine?

>> No.1170053

>>1170040

christians believe in stoning gays, its in the bible, believe it or you're not christian

>> No.1170055

>>1170040
Connotations of the word and the way we seem to perceive them now don't matter.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in a god. There may be other beliefs common among atheists, but that does not define atheism.

A theist is someone who believes in a god. There are other things (religion) that may be common among theists, but they do not define theism.

>> No.1170085

>>1170055

>A theist is someone who believes in a god.

A theist is also someone who believes that materialism is wrong. You can't have gods without non-material entities. Certain positions necessarily follow from each other. A mere "belief in gods" necessitates a number of other positions.

>> No.1170086

>>1170044
>important
Atheists aren't like Christians. It's not a cult dictated by certain leaders, as much as you might think that Dawkins is "our" "Jesus". I know of people who don't believe in a "god" per se but believe in the supernatural or "divine". Atheism is just the lack of a belief in a god, it has nothing to do with any other beliefs they may have.

>> No.1170109

>>1170085
But it isn't. A theist is just someone who believes in a god. Many theists may be against materialism, but it doesn't go both ways

>> No.1170116

>>1170086

Beliefs held by most atheists should be brought into the picture so that we may gain a broader understanding of atheism as a social phenomenon.

>> No.1170125

>Atheists assert that only matter exists.

That's not what atheism is.
I just, I'm not even going to go further this is so stupid.

>> No.1170143

>>1170053
'let him without sin cast the first stone' Jesus Christ (allegedly)

really condoning stoning people there isn't he. Christ. the one CHRISTians follow.

>> No.1170148

>>1170109

>Many theists may be against materialism, but it doesn't go both ways.

Gods are not made of matter.
If you believe in gods, you must believe that materialism is wrong.

You can't believe in dogs while rejecting the reality of animals. Same idea.

>> No.1170163

>>1170143

So you admit the bible speaks against itself? Then it clearly can't be divine word of god, can it? Also, a man isn't allowed to cut his facial hair, as far as I know Jeebuz never dismissed that, so it should still apply today, right?

>> No.1170168

Tweedle mustache in amusement

>> No.1170179

>>1170163

>Then it clearly can't be divine word of god, can it?
Catholics and Orthodox Christians don't believe it is.
To these Christians, Jesus Christ is the divine revelation, not "The Bible". The Word was made flesh; The Word was not made book as in Islam.

>> No.1170182

>>1169944
Light is not a matter, light exists

So much for you trying to be a clever dick

>> No.1170187

>>1170182

Wrong.
Light = particles

>> No.1170205

>>1170179

Then what's the point of still using the old testament? Since Jeebuz spoke against a lot of it, shouldn't those christians dismiss the old testament as fake? AND take the new testament with a grain of salt since it's not magnetically made correct by the hands of god?

>> No.1170214

>>1170163
>implying the bible has ever claimed to be infallible, despite what some denominations will tell you
christianity is a wide religion man, and i don't approve of at least half the things people preach 'in the name of god' The bible is complicated, and i can't be arsed with the entire thing, the gospels are the bits with christ in, and christ is the one you re meant to listen to the teachings of as a christian. I have read through the gospels, and jesus himself never advocates war on anyone or anything like that, so whether he really as the son of god, or just some awesome hippie dude i will never know and never care. but you can read the shit he says and be like, yeah, we should all stop bitching and fighting, then we can live in a better world. unfortnately, this message is screwed up by many other parts f the bible, as it was compiled by the catolic church who had a political agenda and prejudices too, as everyone does.

>> No.1170237

>>1170205

>Then what's the point of still using the old testament?
It's worth reading for its historical content, but more than that, it is prized for its prefigurations of future realities. Read up on typological exegeses if you want to find out more.

>AND take the new testament with a grain of salt
The Bible is a part of Christian tradition. We can no more dismiss it than we can dismiss the works of the Church Fathers.

>> No.1170278

>>1170205
context is why it's still here, i have asked a vicar and that was my answer, and yeah, there are many who do take it with a pinch of salt, which is the same as myself, samefagging from >>1170143 and >>1170214
I would say i probably can't be classed as christian though, more just wierd guy spouting crap, no different to you. anywho, this is a sciece board and we need to give less of a shit about god on here, as hawking, einstein and /sci/'s darling sagan did/do and just look at science.

>> No.1170271

>"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)
-(Supposedly) Jesus, so the old testament is still 100% legit according to Jesus?

"For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12)
-(Supposedly) Jesus, apparently he wants men to cut of their gentialia for heaven?

>> No.1170289

Atheists assert that, without any mathematical or experimental evidence of ANYTHING besides matter, that it is presumed not to exist unless proven otherwise.

The burden of proof lies on those that claim that something other than matter exists.

>> No.1170306

Oh look, an argument from ignorance.

Haven't seen that particular informal fallacy for a while.

>> No.1170315

>>1170306

Isn't it more a defending proof fallacy?

>> No.1170324

>>1170315
Well, OP is ignorant about what atheists actually believe, making it an argument from ignorance.

>> No.1170358

>>1170324

Name me a single atheist who isn't a materialist.

>> No.1170390
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1170390

Flawless logic, OP.

>> No.1170415

>>1170390

Thanks

>> No.1170420

>>1170358
buddhists. and i'm a theist saying this.

>> No.1170449
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1170449

Theists assert that a supreme being exists.
This is a positive statement.
As such, the burden of proof is on the theist.
He must prove that a supreme being exists.

Atheists have a 'lack of belief' in supreme beings.
This isn't a belief; it's a lack of belief.
As such, Atheists need not prove that religion is wrong.
The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claims-- the theist.

Discuss.

>> No.1170548

>>1170449

Why would you go and killl a perfectly legit troll thread with a true statement?

>> No.1170758
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1170758

>>1170548