end the lockdown?

[Anonymous No.11692261]

>corona it's just the flu lmao
No it's not. Its meta-analytically estimated fatality rate is 0.75%*. That means that if every person on earth is infected, about 57 million people would die. A case fatality rate of 0.5% would still be 5 times the commonly cited case fatality rate of adult seasonal influenza.** Since there is base no immunity to this virus, unlike for the flue, it's much more likely to spread widely.

>but only old people will die
Although the elderly and people with preexisting conditions are more likely to die, young and healthy people have died from it too. Some children have now developed what looks like chronic autoimmune problems as a result of this virus, so it's still very much a matter of wait and see how long term effects will play out in the younger population.

>it's hurting the economy, and because of that people will suffer
Sure, but public health and the economy go hand in hand and one cannot thrive without the other. Even countries that did not impose a strict lockdown are dealing with severe economic fallout. Sweden, for example, is projected to lose 6.1% of its GDP in 2020**.

*https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.03.20089854v2
**https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121
***https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/economic-performance-and-forecasts/economic-performance-country/sweden/economic-forecast-sweden_en

[Anonymous No.11692276]

Now it's just a matter of time before the /pol/tards come rushing in with misinformation

[Anonymous No.11692277]

>57 million people would die
That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make

[Anonymous No.11692285]

>>11692261
>about 57 million people would die
WW2 killed about 60 million
tmyk

[Anonymous No.11692292]

>>11692277
I understand, this being 4chan and all, but pretty much everyone else that is not on 4chan would disagree

[Anonymous No.11692302]

>>11692277
If only it was 5.7 billion people, then we would be talking. Providing I survive unscathed. Of course.

[Anonymous No.11692307]

I mean why don't people just strengthen their immune systems?

[Anonymous No.11692317]

>>11692277
>That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make

>Human sacrifice for the economy

Hmm.

[Anonymous No.11692355]

Lol OP is such a fucking brainlet
>Sure, but public health and the economy go hand in hand and one cannot thrive without the other. Even countries that did not impose a strict lockdown are dealing with severe economic fallout. Sweden, for example, is projected to lose 6.1% of its GDP in 2020*
What a fucking retarded argument. Of course their GDP will go down with social distancing, as well as the entire global economy breaking down. Not their fault. However, if they instituted a more severe lockdown, their GDP would plunge even lower. A few thousand deaths are a small price to pay for ~5% of GDP

[Anonymous No.11692371]

>>11692355
>A few thousand deaths are a small price to pay for ~5% of GDP
I feel like there are probably a few thousand swedes out there who would disagree with that if they still had the chance

[Anonymous No.11692376]

>>11692371
Won't somebody PLEASE think of the anonymous foreign shareholders???

[Anonymous No.11692379]

>>11692371
Probably, but you don't ban cars because a certain number of people die every year in traffic accidents. I'm sure those people, if given the chance, would disagree that the statement that cars are necessary.

[Anonymous No.11692383]

>In its latest projections, the CBO sees GDP capsizing 38% on an annualized basis in the second quarter with the 26 million more unemployed Americans than there were at the end of 2019.
Thank fuck we ruined millions of peoples lives and enslaved future generations with debt for some fat old boomers

[Anonymous No.11692386]

>>11692383
elections have consequences

[Anonymous No.11692389]

>>11692386
?
The democrats want to keep it shut, the Republicans are trying to get it open.

[Anonymous No.11692392]

>>11692383
>debt

To whom?

[Anonymous No.11692393]

>>11692392
Are you retarded?
Future generations, as I said

[Anonymous No.11692399]

>>11692389
Trump was the president who ordered the shutdowns and trump was also the president who let the situation get this bad to begin with.

[Anonymous No.11692401]

>>11692399
Lmao so you're trolling, got it

[Anonymous No.11692403]

>>11692393
Future generations lend money from the aether?

[Anonymous No.11692420]

>>11692376
Won't somebody please think of the food supplies and the logistics systems required for them to feed the world. Same goes for medical supplies.

[Anonymous No.11692422]

>>11692403
The Fed and large banks lend money

[Anonymous No.11692423]

>>11692399
Probably a troll but in case you're just a dumb Euro, the President of the United States didn't shut down the states, the individual governors did. The American federalist system leaves quite a bit of power in the hands of the individual states and their respective governors and legislatures.

[Anonymous No.11692427]

Americans have no social safety nets and have convinced themselves that that would be communism, so would ideologically prefer to starve under a bridge.

That's fine, it's their country. Run it how you like, you disease ridden retards.

[Anonymous No.11692435]

>>11692302
Mr Gates what are you doing here?

[Anonymous No.11692438]

>>11692427
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_yh4-Zi92Q

[Anonymous No.11692461]

>>11692355
>they instituted a more severe lockdown, their GDP would plunge even lower.
Wrong you dumb cunt, look at Norway, Finland and Denmark

[Anonymous No.11692562]

>>11692261
>Its meta-analytically estimated fatality rate is 0.75%*
Because we have neither vaccines nor a proper treatment. Both of which will come in the short future due to it's proximity to other viruses.

[Anonymous No.11692566]

>>11692420
technology as well, hell does this board even understands that when the economy is in the shitter ANY scientific study is at risk? Holy fuck I thought you faggots were supposed to be smart.

[Anonymous No.11692576]

>>11692423
It works the same in Germany, yet in Germany, strong leadership of the chancellor resulted in consensus on an approach that was quickly implemented. Trump, on the other hand, thrashed around and shat his pants like an infant.

[Anonymous No.11692581]

>>11692562
>vaccines
>short future
You do realize that the shortest time ever for the development of a vaccine was 4.5 years, right? This will in all likelihood go more quickly still, but to call it short term is just retarded. Absolute best case scenario is September.

[Anonymous No.11692588]

>>11692581
I'd call that short term yes. I still remember reading how long it took for most vaccines to get made in the past.

[Anonymous No.11692594]

>>11692355
G op
D eath
P anels

[Anonymous No.11692598]

>>11692562
>>11692581
Can a vaccine even exist for this one? Aren't they saying that just to keep people calm? Even if there's a vaccine, will it work for al strands?

[Anonymous No.11692600]

>>11692581
Nah dude you just have to fast-track an experimental vax because being an IV guinea pig is preferable to a coof. I'm so glad I love science.

[Anonymous No.11692602]

Yes, in the US alone, based on a population of 3.28 million, and considering the number of cases,
One for every 218 people in the states either HAS it or HAS HAD it.
Its been what, 220 days???

Please dont expect the low IQ idiots to understand what WE are dealing with.
Not to mention If and when this virus makes it into the bat and or bird population, this could quickly turn into an extinction-level event.

But yes, let the normies screech about haircuts and how unfair it is to have to stay home, and its a government conspiracy, as though 1918 happened in some sort of fictional universe.
Humans Can only learn from out past. Some of us, anyways

[Anonymous No.11692607]

>>11692598
It's probably gonna get added to the annual vaccine shit old people have to take. The more I think about it the more the whole thing sounds like the perfect kikestorm. Close the world, make the economy collapse, buy assets, cheap, make countries print money with loans that will have to be paid for thousands of years, create tech to deal with the "problem", make old people's families pay for yet another expensive annual vaccine.

[Anonymous No.11692617]

>>11692602
Wow dude if I read between the lines and let my imagination work I can almost be scared of nothing. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.11692631]

>>11692598
A vaccine is most likely possible. Unlike the flu, its mutagenic rate is rather low, so once we have a vaccine, it is likely to hold for a while and give us some room to breath and anticipate new strains whenever they pop up.

>>11692600
>fast-track
The estimate of September, like I said, is already a best-case scenario. This includes combining phase II and phase III clinical trials in one, which trims months of the total time but still takes months to conduct.

[Anonymous No.11692638]

>>11692607
how about you fuck off back to /pol/ because you're adding nothing of value to this thread

[Anonymous No.11692645]

>>11692638
How about you throw an argument my way instead of having a kneejerk reaction?

[Anonymous No.11692646]

>>11692607
I didn't ask for your pet conspiracy theory, you intellectual midget. I asked if a vaccine is technically feasible; I read someone saying that there aren't vaccines for any coronavirus because of some reason I don't understand.
>pay for yet another expensive annual vaccine.
In the civilized world vaccines are free. Only Americans and Africa don't have access to free healthcare.

[Anonymous No.11692652]

>>11692645
you can find them in the OP

[Anonymous No.11692666]

>>11692646
>for any coronavirus because of some reason I don't understand
iirc any time that happens is because the genes mutate far too fast to create or update a vaccine before the virus mutates again
>In the civilized world vaccines are free
Nothing is free, someone has to made said vaccines, someone has to produce them, keep them stored, transport and then apply them, all of which require materials and human resources, both of which require money, in places with public healthcare that will just be another thing putting a strain on the always precarious or overexpensive system.
>I didn't ask for your pet conspiracy theory, you intellectual midget
First off control your kneejerk reactions. Do you EVEN UNDERSTAND what the term "perfect storm" means? If you don't, shut the fuck up and go look how it's usually applied.
>Only Americans and Africa don't have access to free healthcare
You do realize that even some european countries with stratospheric taxes cannot provide a good healthcare system for their population right? Oh gee I sure hope an economic crisis won't make that even worse.
>>11692652
Which completely ignores the economic issues of the lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11692672]

>>11692302
unironically this desu

[Anonymous No.11692673]

>>11692646
>there aren't vaccines for any coronavirus
This is technically true, for humans. Some forms of the common cold are corona virusus. We don't have a vaccine for that primarily because vaccine development is a long and expensive process, and people don't die of the common cold. We do have vaccines for some more dangerous strains of corona viruses that circulate in bovine species that are used in agriculture. Vaccine development for the first iteration SARS-CoV was also underway, but abandoned because the need for it subsided. So there's nothing fundamentally impossible about developing a vaccine for corona in humans, it just hasn't happened yet.


>>11692666
>Which completely ignores the economic issues of the lockdown.
Can you read you ignorant cunt? It's the third point in the OP. Countries that did not impose a lockdown are suffering economically just the same as other countries that did impose a lockdown. Sweden's GDP drop is comparable to other Scandinavian countries that did impose a lock down, and on par with the rest of Europe taken as a whole, except that Sweden has a far higher excess death rate than comparable countries in Europe.

[Anonymous No.11692675]

>>11692617
You do not need imagination to understand statistics or simple math.
Feel free to do the math yourself.
Johns Hopkins has rather an excellent aggregate data accumulation, go look at it.
>Scared of nothing
How long did the pandedemic of 1918 last, for reference?

How long has it been since patient Zero for this virus?
With that in mind, how Can you expect a human population of 7.8 bil to be affected.?
Proportionally.

[Anonymous No.11692684]

>>11692371
Average victim of corona in sweden is above the age of life expectancy and there will be many more deaths as a result of defunded health care from the economic losses than there will ever be from a 0.1% fatality rate disease.

[Anonymous No.11692710]

>>11692673
>It's the third point in the OP
The third point LITERALLY IGNORES the economic issues.
>are suffering economically just the same
Source? Because saying something is EXPECTED to fall by a certain number isn't a fact, it's a theory.
>except that Sweden has a far higher excess death rate than comparable countries in Europe
If those who did die were on the death row, it makes no difference in the long run.

[Anonymous No.11692722]

>>11692276
>>11692261
same fag glowniger kys you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.11692726]

>>11692710
>The third point LITERALLY IGNORES the economic issues.
So you've answered my question if you can read and the answer is no. It doesn't ignore economic issues at all. It argues that economic issues are terrible but there is no trade off between public health and health of the economy, as evidenced by Sweden's economy.

>Source? Because saying something is EXPECTED to fall by a certain number isn't a fact, it's a theory.
>hurr durr you can't forecast economic growth rate
Source is the third source in the OP. Are you, besides unable to read, also retarded? How do you think states create a budget for the future?
>If those who did die were on the death row, it makes no difference in the long run.
That's not what excess deaths mean you idiot. EXCESS implies mortality above the seasonal average, i.e. more people died then would be expected, so not only people who would have died anyway.

[Anonymous No.11692727]

>>11692403
fucking retard doesn't know how banking and debt works, how am I not surprised the retarded autists on this board dont understand the most simplistic mechanisms of how the real world works

[Anonymous No.11692749]

>>11692726
>and the answer is no
You don't like my answer therefore I don't know how to read? How about you start arguing rather than throwing ad homs as if that has any intellectual merit?
>It argues that economic issues are terrible but there is no trade off between public health and health of the economy
It implies that the lockdown is the only way to deal with public health. And no, unless you have the stats for Sweden's CURRENT gdp compared to other nordic countries, you don't have a SHRED of evidence.
>Source is the third source in the OP
Of the EXPECTED, do you know what else was expected? Millions of deaths worldwide by this point.
>That's not what excess deaths mean you idiot. EXCESS implies mortality above the seasonal average
Now you're the one who doesn't know how to read. Death row doesn't mean people who would die this season, rather people who have terminal illnesses, which by the way can keep a person in a bed for years. No seriously, just how disingenuous are you going to get? And speaking of which, I want to know where you got the number for the "excess death", because if they were comparing merely to the number of people on Sweden who die due to the flu then it's a worthless statistic.

[Anonymous No.11692808]

>>11692749
>You don't like my answer therefore I don't know how to read?
It's not that I didn't like your answer, it's more the fact that you didn't have an answer.
>ad homs
It wasn't an ad hominem, it was a plain old insult. Like me calling you a cunt.
>It implies that the lockdown is the only way to deal with public health
Oh? Do you have some miraculous alternative that no one's thought of before?
>Of the EXPECTED, do you know what else was expected? Millions of deaths worldwide by this point.
Besides the fact that the number of deaths is in the hundreds of thousands and we are in a global lock down, no epidemiologist expected millions of deaths at this point. The initial /pol/ habbening response is not an actual forecast.
>Death row doesn't mean people who would die this season
Then the metaphor is retarded because if we interpret it this way literally every human on earth is on death row. No one is immortal. Excess deaths imply people died sooner than expected, which is very much a problem.
> I want to know where you got the number for the "excess death"
sure, here you go:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.10.20096909v1

Now you're very welcome to show your source on the predicted millions of deaths by now.

[Anonymous No.11692829]

>>11692576
Our government is absolutely shit in handling the current crisis. Complete lack of transparency or what they base their decisions on. Bayern even goes so far to break the law by instituting their own Infektionsschutzgesetz but if you criticise how the responsibility distribution is ignored at the moment you are a "conspiracy theorist". The Media is using biased reporting and the RKI produces fear mongering numbers, while the data from the Statistischen Bundesamt are disregarded. Everyone in the government is either braindead or mischievous.

It is not about the restrictions, but about the process that leads to those. If they don't tell the people why they are doing something and what it is based on they can strip us of our voting rights anyways, why bother with the stupid Volk.

[Anonymous No.11692841]

>>11692829
>RKI produces fear mongering numbers,
Publishing the data as they are is fear mongering? You really are a conspiracy theorist.

[Anonymous No.11692846]

>>11692808
>it's more the fact that you didn't have an answer
I answered that the segment you pointed at is not a valid argument to the economic issue because it fails to argument about every single one of the repercussions of the current state.
>Oh? Do you have some miraculous alternative that no one's thought of before?
Proper sanitation, masks. Those two would be enough to reach a middle ground where the economy wouldn't tank as hard while also slowing the spread.
>no epidemiologist expected millions of deaths at this point
Just about every country expected over 100k deaths, 10 countries with those predictions would reach over a million deaths.
>Then the metaphor is retarded because if we interpret it this way literally every human on earth is on death row
A person with terminal cancer is on the death row, but a person with terminal cancer might still live years.
>Excess deaths imply people died sooner than expected, which is very much a problem
ONLY if they didn't had terminal illnesses.
>sure, here you go
The study doesn't actually cites the number of deaths expected this season, so it's literally impossible to know the accuracy of their results.

[Anonymous No.11692858]

>>11692379
Ban cars totally? That's a stupid comparison. Here's a better analogy. If a road is dangerous and causing a lot of accidents and some deaths, you should close the road until it can get repairs and up to safe levels to be used. Maybe you do half the road and make it a slow opening, whatever. But only when it's safer to drive on. Eventually it will completely reopen. People will be inconvenienced and might whine a lot until the road is reopened, but we do what is necessary.

And that's exactly how we should deal with COVID-19.

[Anonymous No.11692869]

>>11692858
Here's another part of the analogy you left off. Closing the road means a city is isolated and gets neither medicine not food. Completely repairing the road will take 9 months,putting 70% of the city in extreme poverty and increasing the death rate by 30% on the next 10 to 25 years.

[Anonymous No.11692876]

>>11692846
You either misunderstood or ignored the points made, and failed to provide your sources.

As an example:
>the study does not...
It literally does. Try downloading the Pdf instead of reading just the abstract. This is /pol/ tier laziness. Arguing with you is useless, so I won't continue doing it.

[Anonymous No.11692883]

>>11692261
>Some children have now developed what looks like chronic autoimmune problems as a result of this virus
no they don't
they developed autoimmune from antibac soap and excessive hand sanitizing brought on by the corona fearmongering

take your pills schizo

[Anonymous No.11692899]

>>11692841
No, data is just data. But they are not reproducable or transparent about it.
The problem is when the Tagesschau says things like 10k new positive cases when the rate of testing also went up exponentially. Then the retards will think that the virus spreads so fast that we all will be infected in a month.
It is incredibly misleading and anyone from a science background should rightfully call out the media on their bullshit and the institutions on their intransparancy. Their decisions are based on something and since they are working for the public those factors and experts should be made public.
I don't say the virus is not dangerous but our government is doing shit for actually educating the people.

[Anonymous No.11692904]

>>11692876
>and failed to provide your sources
Are you telling me you can't remember 10 countries with death projections that were over 100k?
>It literally does
Show me the hard numbers. Pic related.

[Anonymous No.11692912]

>>11692899
The thing is, I'm in science and I think they're being incredibly transparent.

[Anonymous No.11692913]

>>11692841
>>11692899
And if you really think that your health is in the governments best interest you are braindead. Else they'd properly help risk groups and actually base decisions on reason and not their political agenda like Söder is doing.

[Anonymous No.11692918]

>>11692912
Ok great. Then give me a link to a website that lists the experts currently informing our government on what to do. Pro tip, you can't.

[Anonymous No.11692960]

Just pray and take hydroxychloroquine. That’s how you deal with this "virus".

[Anonymous No.11692977]

>>11692261

Okay, but even if 57 million extra people died this year the world population would still grow overall, and most of those deaths would be old/fat people anyway.

[Anonymous No.11693006]

>>11692977
ok mr death panel

[Anonymous No.11693030]

>>11693006

Sorry that I don’t want to destroy civilization to save a few obese boomers, you limp-wristed communist.

[Anonymous No.11693041]

>>11692977
This is reality.
>oh noes 57 million boomers are going to die
Who fucking cares? Your future is being pissed down the drain to keep a 92 year old hooked up to a ventilator for an extra 3 days of life and you retards are cheering it on.

[Anonymous No.11693060]

>>11693030
>>11693041
#prolife

[Anonymous No.11693138]

>>11693030
See point 2 in the OP

[Anonymous No.11693383]

>>11692918
RKI advises the government, go to their website and find out who works there

[Anonymous No.11693394]

>>11692904
>Show me the hard numbers
The ARE hard numbers you retard

[Anonymous No.11693412]

>>11693394
the numbers being shown are the conclusions they took not the hard numbers used for the calculations. You're either being incredibly disingenuous or outright retarded now.

[Anonymous No.11693418]

>>11692277
This is a brand new virus.
What happens when the virus evolves into a much more deadly version, or if the virus becomes endemic like the actual and NEVER goes away?

Do you just accept that 57 million people must die each and every year....forever, and there's nothing you can do to stop it? We're not there yet. We can stop it right now b4 it gets to that point.

[Anonymous No.11693422]

>>11692277
This is a brand new virus.
What happens when the virus evolves into a much more deadly version, or if the virus becomes endemic like the actual flu and NEVER goes away?

Do you just accept that 57 million people must die each and every year....forever, and there's nothing you can do to stop it? We're not there yet. We can stop it right now b4 it gets to that point.

[Anonymous No.11693433]

The dichotomy of saving people vs saving the economy is a false one and pushed by those with political motivations. Economists (ie Paul Romer) and Epidemiologists (ie Kevin Karem) have published plans for covid19 testing and management that allow for both maximum medical treatment, isolation of the vulnerable, while keeping buinsesses open.

The problem is always policymakers and pundits making talking points out of mundane details like a bike shed at a nuclear plant.

[Anonymous No.11693440]

thing is they should've locked down everything dictatorship style and keep it that way until two weeks after the global case count had hit 0

there were countries that did ok and there were countries that went completely retarded but overall we fucked up, the virus will linger around year by year and even though it's not an immediate problem for most of us the average life expectancy will definitely drop a couple of years once it becomes a seasonal thing

[Anonymous No.11693454]

>>11692869
That's far fetched and too simplified. You're assuming we do this is the dumbest way possible to overestimate what would happen. First of all, most places don't have just one road in, so it won't isolate the city or do anything quite that drastic.

But even if it would isolate the city, you could instead do something like close half of it while taking safety precautions on the other open half (like limiting traffic and/or reducing the speed limit). So there would be significant impact to the city, yes, but nothing catastrophic like you say.

[Anonymous No.11693460]

>>11693433
It's Trumps policy. You must always remember Trump thrives greatest in chaos. It's been his strategy all along to confuse and disorganize people and under the cover of all that confusion blitz his policies through and hope nobody notices till it's too late.

I think his plan is to try to make things worse. The worse the outbreak is the more chaos, the more things play to his favor. If it gets bad enough he can try to cancel the elections. He'll fail, but he doesn't think so. It's why he's attacking mail in balloting right now. In Trumps mind mail in ballots ruin the rational for canceling the elections due to health concerns in November. Again, I'm not saying he can do it, but this is what he's thinking. Don't underestimate his stupidity or his lack of value for human life.

[Anonymous No.11693465]

>>11693454
>That's far fetched and too simplified
You mean, like an analogy? Whoa.
>most places
Not all.
>you could instead do something like close half of it while taking safety precautions on the other open half
So, NOT a lockdown?

[Anonymous No.11693540]

>>11693422
>We can stop it right now b4 it gets to that point.

That time past months ago. Getting rid of it now would take a smallpox scale effort if a vaccine provides long term immunity. If immunity only lasts for a couple of years as with most corona viruses, then covid19 is here to stay regardless of anything we do. Repeat cycles should be less deadly as some level of herd immunity is built, but it's gonna repeat for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous No.11693570]

>>11693383
Yeah, just the low quality answer I've expected.

"Uhhm, we've decided to do X because our (((Experts))) said it would be good. U-uuh st-studies? Which studies? No, we just decided that. Trust us! Everything is based on science and there are more intelligent experts helping us, no need for you to retrace our steps."
>The thing is, I'm in science and I think they're being incredibly transparent.
Lmao. Can't be a MINT background

[Anonymous No.11693582]

>>11693412
This guy also knows that data has to be reproducable in order to have weight.

>>11693383
"Look at graph! Graph go up! Where does number come from? What do you mean how was it calculated?"

[Anonymous No.11693636]

>>11693582
One of the biggest issues I had while looking at that "study" is how little, if at all, the "excess of deaths" would be. There's quite a few studies showing that in some places 90%+ of the people who die were on long term treatment or elderly homes as well, which is basically just anticipating those deaths by at most 5 years.

[Anonymous No.11693650]

>>11693465
>So, NOT a lockdown?
If we're gonna keep carrying this analogy (and to be honest, we've probably carried it too far already), then you'd close the road for a short enough time to enact some safety measures before reopening parts of it. When the repairs are done on some part of the road and that part is now safer, you let it open. But you only do this when the road is actually safer. That's how the lockdown should be done. Don't keep at it forever while the economy goes to shit. But don't ease up until it's actually safer. The US government actually had guidelines about how to do that, but too many people are impatient little shits who don't give a damn about other people or don't understand how their personally getting sick could affect other people. So they're ignoring the guidelines and things may very well get worse before they get better.

>You mean, like an analogy?
I mean like a decent analogy, not some doomsday bullshit that assumes the stupidest and worst responses. You don't run a lockdown for the entire time until everything is fixed. If you want an example of a lockdown done right (at least so far and given the data we currently have; this could change), look at Italy.

[Anonymous No.11693672]

>>11693422
>What happens when the virus evolves into a much more deadly version,
That happens how often, one time in 10 million? Viruses almost always evolve into something less harmful, not more. Flukes happen but they're flukes because they're very uncommon. That you automatically assume that the virus is going to morph into something worse despite the science saying the odds are against it, exposes your bias and desire to keep people frightened rather than informing the reality of the situation.

[Anonymous No.11693685]

>>11693650
>That's how the lockdown should be done
We both know that's the problem of the situation at hand. When the danger was clearly overstated, the response was completely ineffective, because locking people at home doesn't stop in house transmissions, which is one of the easiest ways to get one of the biggest risk groups infected, when the job of informing people is actually being used as fear porn, AND all those measures were enacted too late to be effective IF they could be effective. Well, we got the worst of both worlds, th economic collapse and the death toll.
>If you want an example of a lockdown done right (at least so far and given the data we currently have; this could change), look at Italy.
Disagree, Italy enacted it's lockdown too late. A better case would be Taiwan and South Korea. Both of which didn't have to actually shut down their entire countries despite being very close to the source of the problem.

[Anonymous No.11693720]

>>11693672
>That happens how often, one time in 10 million?
Sorry, but was that a question? are you guessing 1 in 10million or are you telling me that's a fact? Are you looking to me to provide facts that confirm or deny your BS, and that's why you posed it as a question?

Anyway, spanish flu evolved into much deadlier strain which is part of the reason so many people died during the 2nd wave.

[Anonymous No.11693994]

>>11692302

[Anonymous No.11694066]

>>11693060
>#
>>>/t/witter

[Anonymous No.11694073]

>>11693460
Nigger stop watching so much CNN.

[Anonymous No.11694136]

>>11692307
Troll?

[Anonymous No.11694381]

>>11693412
Fucking retard, the data itself is publicly available and referred to in the paper. How about you show me your sourses before you start bitching that the units on the y axis are not in the specific format that you can understand.

[Anonymous No.11694388]

>>11693570
>Which studies? N
Literally all linked to on the RKI website. All you have to do is fucking read it numbnuts.

[Anonymous No.11694391]

>>11694381
>the data itself is publicly available
The site with the stats they used is dead.

[Anonymous No.11694595]

>>11693582
Fucking read. Graphs don't come without the raw data you dumb cunt. And replication? These are simple statistics, not the end product of inferrential statistics. You morons don't even know what replication is.

[Anonymous No.11695711]

>lockdowns work

[Anonymous No.11695796]

>>11695711
Dumbass

[Anonymous No.11695798]

Decent thread

[Anonymous No.11695803]

>>11693030
>>11693006
see you in November

[Anonymous No.11695854]

>>11693460
Still better than Hillary, nobody can deny that.
Imagine being in a place where the richest plutocrats get a succession of their own puppets installed as leader of the strongest nation on the planet, running the place for decades, and then one day they lose and an outsider takes the position. Imagine being a little person, just a regular citizen of this nation, and you are so deluded as to the actual state of things that you are mad at the outsider for getting in the way of the big fat cats. Could you imagine being that person? I understand if it's hard for you to think, it seems like you just get your opinions on stuff from the people on the tv who wear nice clothes.

[Anonymous No.11695859]

>>11694595
>You morons don't even know what replication is
We started with X and ended with Y.
You are saying: "Why do we need X???? Y is raw data!!! Simple statistics!"
And the thing with the graphs was just to show how fucking retarded you sound. Go back to /x/ if you believe everything you read without needing evidence or want to retrace their steps.

[Anonymous No.11695868]

>>11695859
This is obviously not the case for when they are simply showing raw data in a graph, there is not always a procession of data involved. And I'm not talking about the paper the other anon linked

[Anonymous No.11695895]

You and I, we must die.
The death of one is a tragedy, the death of millions is just a statistic. If I am one, so be it; every human, so be it.

Remember trilobites?

[Anonymous No.11695976]

>>11695859
You stupid shit, don't pretend that you even bothered to read the paper. You asked for a source backing up my claim, and I provided literally that. You simply don't like its conclusions, and don't give a fuck about how they arrived at those conclusions you disingenuous cunt.

[Anonymous No.11696010]

This is what is going to happen:
>countries that are in lockdown gradually raise lockdown as rate of new infection decreases
>rates of new infections start increasing back again
>depending on how tired of coronapanic people are, they either reinstate lockdown or ignore infection rates climbing; in authoritarian countries, governments conceal statistics and basically raise lockdown whenever they decide to
>eventually everyone gets tired of coronapanic, lockdowns are lifted, everyone just does social distancing, people that didn't already get infected, get infected
>depending on how long immunity lasts, corona either dies out or becomes seasonal, worst case vulnerable groups get vaccinated every year or whatever
Imo countries with high density, outgoing population like Italy or Brazil need lockdowns, countries like Sweden can get by without. Yeah they have more deaths, but iirc that's from old people homes (which actually were on lockdown) somehow got corona'd + frontloading.

[Anonymous No.11696028]

>>11696010
oh yeah, and the death rates end up being way lower than projected because fear mongering retards don't take into account:
>magnitude of exposure
>hidden cases
>mistaken statistic

[Anonymous No.11696077]

>>11696010
>Yeah they have more deaths, but iirc that's from old people homes (which actually were on lockdown) somehow got corona'd + frontloading
LOL retard, this obviously means that they don't get by very well. Isolation of only the elderly apparently doesn't work very well. Same economic problems as its neighbors, but more deaths. Cope however you want but it's a poor outcome.

[Anonymous No.11696087]

>>11695976
>You stupid shit, don't pretend that you even bothered to read the paper

>And I'm not talking about the paper the other anon linked

You stupid shit, don't pretend that you even bothered to read my reply

[Anonymous No.11696102]

>>11695854
>Still better than Hillary
It's time to let it go anon, she lost 3 years ago. Stop trying to excuse all the bad decisions trump has made with "muh Hillary". People can criticise trump without being supporters of Hillary (I for one think they were both terrible candidates).

[Anonymous No.11696115]

>>11696077
>same
no, it's lower
>more deaths
Yeah, from old people homes. That were on lockdown. You're implying they would have survived with country wide lockdown. They wouldn't have. People in nursing homes in Italy, Germany and Spain also died.

[Anonymous No.11696118]

>>11695854
Anybody can deny that

[Anonymous No.11696125]

>>11696115
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Sweden
>Sweden estimated GDP drop 6.8%
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Norway
>Norway estimated GDP drop 6.3%
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Denmark
>Denmark estimated GDP drop 6.5%

Face it anon, those people died for nothing.

[Anonymous No.11696131]

>>11696087
I did. It was retarded. My original claim was X. Then got asked for a source on X. I the provided the source on X. Then you mongs go and ask for Y, irrelevant to substantiate the original claim of X.

[Anonymous No.11696132]

>>11696125
> those people died for nothing
They died for freedom and can be proud.
Meanwhile you hide in hole like rat, haha

[Anonymous No.11696134]

>>11696132
>i have no argument

[Anonymous No.11696135]

>>11696131
Ok, I think this is the time where I'll stop trolling then

[Anonymous No.11696136]

>>11696132
The can't be proud. They're dead.

[Anonymous No.11696137]

>>11696134
>i have no freedom
waaah when will government rescue me I can't base my own decisions on reason and need to be restricted as much as possible waaah

[Anonymous No.11696140]

>>11696132
Cope harde retard

[Anonymous No.11696141]

>>11696125
>estimated
GDP drop numbers comparison is irrelevant. Imagine taking tourist country - Canary Islands, for example - and North Korea. Canary Islands institute a lockdown and get a massive drop in GDP. North Korea doesn't, and its GDP doesn't change. This is an extreme example, but it gets the point across. GDP drop is dependent on the specific economy. Furthermore, the numbers you give are estimates. Which makes them even more irrelevant.
>died for nothing
They died because they are old people in nursing homes and got corona. Same as in countries that instituted a lockdown. They just (probably, too lazy to look up exact numbers, proportions etc; might be they died at same rate as in lockdown countries, actually) died mostly at the same time, instead of it being more drawn out. If that didn't lead to healthcare collapse in Sweden, it's better than lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11696150]

>>11696141
>it's doing better than its neighbors with comparable economy
>no it isn't, here are the numbers
>you can't compare economies
cope

[Anonymous No.11696153]

>>11696132
>you hide in a hole like a rat
Actually my country has already lifted most of the restrictions. My Government didn't fuck things up and reacted quick enough to almost eradicate the virus. There has been no cases in my state for a week or two (I haven't really been following). Last Friday I went to a ten person dinner party.

[Anonymous No.11696157]

>>11696141
Do you know what Norway's economy depends heavily on anon? Oil.

Do you know what has crashed recently? That's right, oil.

Seems weird they're still able to do better than Sweden...

[Anonymous No.11696164]

>>11696141
If you think Sweden is doing better then the burden of proof is on you anon.

[Anonymous No.11696167]

>>11696150
a) I never said it's doing better, I said how it's going to go but did not say anything about economy
b) The countries that have lockdown are not out of the dodge yet
c) The numbers you provided cannot be compared to make conclusions due to difference in economies. Swedish, Norway and Danish economy are different. Hell, Norway can lockdown for infinity and just keep selling oil and be fine. Sweden and Denmark have similar proportion of services in GDP but the makeup of services is different, exports are different, pop density are different, etc.

[Anonymous No.11696168]

>>11696137
>dying in hospital is freedom
ok mr death panel

[Anonymous No.11696169]

If you are not willing to sacrifice your grandma for Wall Street™ are you really a patriot?

[Anonymous No.11696176]

>>11696141
>>11696125
sweden is just as fucked up as the rest, but their infection and death rates are thru the roof
https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&location=Denmark&location=Finland&location=Iceland&location=New+Zealand&location=Norway&location=South+Korea&location=Sweden&location=Taiwan

[Anonymous No.11696181]

>>11692261

>Since there is base no immunity to this virus

why are you lying?

[Anonymous No.11696184]

>>11696167
>I never said it's doing better
>>11696115
>no, it's lower [referring to economic problems]
Get your story straight anon, which one is it?

>Economic problems, I barely know the guy. Never met him. You see Hillary on the other hand, the emails, now that's corruption. The Dems, they do a number, oh they do. If I was Obama they'd...

[Anonymous No.11696187]

>Even countries that did not impose a strict lockdown are dealing with severe economic fallout. Sweden, for example, is projected to lose 6.1% of its GDP in 2020**.


that's because of all the other countries shutting borders and going into lockdown.

and btw the IFR is around 0.03%

>but only old people will die

barely 7.5% IFR for 80-85 year olds

[Anonymous No.11696191]

>>11696176

per million they are actually do better than most countries in lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11696195]

>>11696187
>and btw the IFR is around 0.03%
No.

[Anonymous No.11696198]

>>11692602

Spanish flu kills around 50 million over a couple years

>covid barely maybe possibly kills around 300 thousand in 6 months

NOOO ITS THE APOCALYPSE

[Anonymous No.11696199]

>>11696187
>that's because all of the other countries
What are you even saying anon? Do you mean to imply that Sweden should ignore the actions of other countries in deciding its economic policy? Are you claiming that Sweden made a good decision after seeing all it's neighbours shut down?

Those people died for nothing.

[Anonymous No.11696201]

>>11693460
The people on the airport TVs say the Orange Man is Bad

[Anonymous No.11696208]

>>11696176
Yeah sure, I'm not arguing that Sweden currently has more deaths. I literally said that in my post, actually. I'm saying that after lockdown is lifted, countries that had it will start getting additional waves. Until everyone is immune more or less. If EVERYONE did a super strict lock down for several months it might have worked.

>>11696157
What are those gdp estimate drops are based on and what is the time frame? Might be that Norways gdp drop calculation there already took into account price of the oil, e.g. the comparison is between time points when oil was already low in both cases.

>>11696164
I'm not saying Sweden is doing better atm. I'm saying that the current lockdown options don't save lives as long as hospitals are not overflowing. That if a country has a lot of hospital resources and if other factors allow for a sufficiently slow spread of infection, no lockdown is necessary.

>>11696199
If the people died while hospital beds, ventilation, etc were available, they would have died in any case, lockdown or no lockdown. I guess that's the point I'm trying to make.

[Anonymous No.11696215]

>>11696195

yes

[Anonymous No.11696216]

>>11692292
Ad populum. You lost and proved your low IQ.

[Anonymous No.11696218]

>>11696215
Source?

[Anonymous No.11696219]

>>11696198
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2766121
>As of early May 2020, approximately 65000 people in the US had died of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), the disease caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). This number appears to be similar to the estimated number of seasonal influenza deaths reported annually by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

>more people dead by early May than annual influenza deaths
inb4 "but it's seasonal", the paper discusses this misconception too.

[Anonymous No.11696227]

>>11696215
See first source in the OP you stupid faggot

[Anonymous No.11696230]

>>11696219
Prove that it's not seasonal.

[Anonymous No.11696239]

>>11696208
>what are those GDP estimate drops based on
You're a big boy anon, why don't you read the sources and find out. Wikipedia conveniently links all the claims it makes and I'm sure you'll find a peer reviewed paper discussing methodology or an official government report (also discussing methodology). You are on this board because you like /sci/ence right?

>the current lockdown options don't save lives if the hospital's aren't overflowing
People are still dying in ICU anon. Lockdown means less cases which means less deaths (regardless of capacity). Overfull hospitals is a worse case scenario, just because you've avoided it doesn't mean you're doing well.

>they would have died in any case
Most of them wouldn't have caught it. Look at the infection curves for countries who went into lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11696243]

>>11696230
Read the paper and see. This is the /sci/ence board, at least pretend you know how to do science.

[Anonymous No.11696249]

>>11696239
I'm on this board because I wanted to discuss this crap a bit.
>Look at the infection curves for countries who went into lockdown
Yeah, see, I'm assuming there will me more waves after lockdown is lifted. I guess only time will tell.

[Anonymous No.11696252]

>>11696201
golden calf holy! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.11696255]

>>11696243
If you can't relay their argumen than it means it is mere discussion conjecture or they never asserted such in the the first place which is why you defer to "you gotta read it bro".

[Anonymous No.11696259]

>>11696191
compare sweden to its similar neighbors, then you see what policy did

[Anonymous No.11696261]

>>11696208
>not arguing that Sweden currently has more deaths
well you should

[Anonymous No.11696262]

>>11692261
>57 million people would die
But that IS a nothingburger.

[Anonymous No.11696264]

>>11692261
But you are talking about things that haven't happened. Ever notice that you people who do this for a living are wrong, like all the time?

[Anonymous No.11696267]

>>11696262
Especially considering most only have about 5 more years of life left anyways.

[Anonymous No.11696269]

>>11696262
>>11692285
k retard

[Anonymous No.11696271]

>>11696261
*Not arguing AGAINST Sweden having more deaths fug

[Anonymous No.11696273]

>>11696249
So your claims are:
>lockdowns will hurt the economy in future (despite current evidence to the contrary)
>lockdowns won't save lives (despite current evidence to the contrary)
I get that you are saying these things will happen in the future, but you don't really have anything to justify this other than the fact that it supports the policies you (or your party) likes.

I think you should take a step back and re-evaluate why you believe the things you do. It might help to try separate the issue from political party. You can like most of the policies of someone and still believe particular ones are misguided. Supporting everything they say is very naive. If it's worth anything the Government that took my country into lockdown is our right wing party (and I think they handled it fantastically, even though I have problems with a lot of other things they have done).

[Anonymous No.11696274]

>>11696267
ok mr death panel

[Anonymous No.11696283]

>>11696255
This apparent equivalence of deaths from COVID-19 and seasonal influenza does not match frontline clinical conditions, especially in some hot zones of the pandemic where ventilators have been in short supply and many hospitals have been stretched beyond their limits. The demand on hospital resources during the COVID-19 crisis has not occurred before in the US, even during the worst of influenza seasons. Yet public officials continue to draw comparisons between seasonal influenza and SARS-CoV-2 mortality, often in an attempt to minimize the effects of the unfolding pandemic.

The root of such incorrect comparisons may be a knowledge gap regarding how seasonal influenza and COVID-19 data are publicly reported. The CDC, like many similar disease control agencies around the world, presents seasonal influenza morbidity and mortality not as raw counts but as calculated estimates based on submitted International Classification of Diseases codes.2Between 2013-2014 and 2018-2019, the reported yearly estimated influenza deaths ranged from 23000 to 61000.3Over that same time period, however, the number of counted influenza deaths was between 3448 and 15620 yearly.4On average, the CDC estimates of deaths attributed to influenza were nearly 6 times greater than its reported counted numbers. Conversely, COVID-19 fatalities are at present being counted and reported directly, not estimated. As a result, the more valid comparison would be to compare weekly counts of COVID-19 deaths to weekly counts of seasonal influenza deaths.


The article continues but I doubt you'll even read this because you couldn't be bothered reading a two page paper in the first place

[Anonymous No.11696286]

>>11696274
Reddit turn of argument.

>assertion
Virus will kill 57 million people, ergo nothingburger
>my response (affirmation)
Overwhelming majority of said population would have died regardless within the next five years.
>(you)
ok mr. death panel

[Anonymous No.11696287]

>>11696187
>and btw the IFR is around 0.03%
still waiting for source on this.

[Anonymous No.11696310]

>>11696273
I don't base my opinion on corona or anything else for that matter on political parties because for them, populism, not truth or effectiveness, is the necessity and basis for survival.

I believe the things I do because corona is a stealthy as fuck virus. I personally had corona while the govt in my country claimed they have everything on lockdown. So did my gf. So did my friend in Germany, who also got corona during lockdown. I am not officially diagnosed, and in statistics, I'm gonna be considered "healthy". If you want to know how I know I had corona, that's a whole different post.

My claim I guess is, because I believe everyone will get corona regardless, lockdown should be seen as one of the tools to get to herd immunity asap without hospitals overflowing. Not as a tool to stop corona completely. And not something that is 100% necessary for all communities. And that people should expect more waves of corona, and be ready to deal with them, with means other than lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11696438]

>>11692317
based Moloch poster

[Anonymous No.11696553]

>>11693422
57 million people already DO die each and every single year. and no, corona deaths are not IN ADDITION to existing deaths, there is SIGNIFICANT overlap, and this is ignoring that total infection % of over 50% is virtually impossible. Even if everybody was completely unaware of the virus and no measures were ever used, a 20-25% infection rate is most likely.

>what happens if it becomes endemic

the same thing that happened when the much much more deadly and virulent influenza first broke out and never went away, it becomes a literal and unironic nothing burger that will not affect significant number of peoples lives in any meaningful way.

"pandemics" like this are not new or interesting, what is new is mass panic, governments overacting and pseuds like you using stats you don't understand.

[Anonymous No.11696567]

Ohio County Declares Racism a Public Health EMERGENCY, and Church Burned Down for Staying Open
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6r_Xg8tkcY

Communism is the future rightoids we will burn down your churches and Universities and everything else, you will do what we say or we will find you.

[Anonymous No.11696620]

So I've pushed this idea few times, but I guess maybe I'll have some more luck here. Where am I wrong?

[Anonymous No.11696642]

>>11696553
>IN ADDITION to existing deaths
See excess mortality stats, a large chunk is literally in addition.

[Anonymous No.11696661]

>>11692317
You know its actually kinda funny in a sad way how the people who wholeheartedly believe in QAnon Moloch conspiracy theories will not hesitate to turn around and literally sacrifice human lives to save the stock market and its Charging Bull monument. Lmao.

[Anonymous No.11696690]

>>11696661
It's not about saving the stock market I think, but more about their autocrat of choice saving political face.

[Anonymous No.11696737]

>>11692722
imagine believing your /pol/tard shitposts are so important that the government would retain employees specifically for engaging with you

[Anonymous No.11696740]

>>11696620
the right-hand column is retarded. the bottom left is nearing statistical impossibility as the number of deaths has already far exceeded a bad flu season and will continue to rise

[Anonymous No.11696755]

>>11696740
Ok Karen

[Anonymous No.11696761]

Meanwhile in Georgia which has been open for a month...

[Anonymous No.11696771]

>>11696755
"Karen" would assume that the lockdown is bullshit and the virus is overblown because NatureValleyHealthNews.tk told her so. Are you sure you understand how the stereotype works?

>>11696761
Georgia resident here. The state is not 'open' - all schools and bars are still closed. The relaxation of restrictions has just started, and whatever effects that has on virus transmission are going to be delayed by the incubation period anyway.

[Anonymous No.11696772]

>>11696740
It's meant to be speculative matrix more based on possibility. It's all relative, e.g. the virus does not spread as easily, or the deaths are being overreported. In both cases the virus exists, but can it really hang around in the air for 30 minutes? Or can it cause irreparable lung damage? This thing hasn't been studied enough so all we have are projections. I guess I could rephrase it and say that the virus projections are an undershoot/overshoot.
How is that a statistical impossibility? How is the right retarded? You think the gov has never done anything shady? lmao

[Anonymous No.11696788]

>>11696761
>open
Simply not true since social distancing rules are many additional restrictions are still in effect in the most affected places

[Anonymous No.11696791]

>>11696771
>NatureValleyHealthNews.tk
kek

[Anonymous No.11696797]

>>11696772
>the deaths are being overreported.
the general consensus among epidemiologists is that deaths are underreported because of the testing deficit - especially early on in the outbreak

>You think the gov has never done anything shady?
The government has never done anything shady that ends up being outed by internet conspiracy theorists. It's always an internal whistleblower or declassification 50 years later.

[Anonymous No.11696804]

>>11692673
>except that Sweden has a far higher excess death rate than comparable countries in Europe.

[Anonymous No.11696818]

>>11696216
Jesus I've never seen a post resemble a literal fedora more than this one

[Anonymous No.11696820]

>>11696135
>lololol i tr0ll u ;_;
Good that you backed out of the argument but you're still a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.11696890]

>>11696804
Sweden is the only Scandinavian country in the pic. Also interesting that you'd bring up the UK, since it's one of the countries who stuck to the mitigation strategy for very long, hence they're doing terribly now.

[Anonymous No.11697100]

>>11696661
>>11696690
Again, this is a fucking false dichotomy. You can have working businesses and control the spread of Covid19; this isnt the fucking middle ages we have tests and medical equipment to track and isolate cases as they crop up without overwhelming our medical infrastructure.
You don't have to force people to stay at home, you just have to get them consent to monitoring which no one wants to mention.

[Anonymous No.11697332]

>>11697100
>as they crop up
That all depends on the number of infections anon. Things become untraceable very quickly.

[Anonymous No.11697565]

>>11696771
>incubation period
How many years is the incubation period now? You doomers keep changing it to be just outside of the data refuting your predictions of death.
>>11696788
Oh no, people aren't in bars therefore everything else being open doesn't count. Keep moving those goal posts past Pluto, you're looking stupider and stupider by the day as your predictions and reality continue to rapidly diverge. The millions of deaths you wanted simply isn't going to happen.

[Anonymous No.11697629]

>>11697565
I enjoy watching you /pol/tards come up with all this crap that no one claimed, it's entertaining, like watching a chimp throw shit around in the zoo.

[Anonymous No.11697687]

>>11697332
At that point, your program and medical infrastructure has failed and you resort to building morgues in a public park.
The whole point of having tracing is to keep outbreaks small, which along with the low fatality rate keeps deaths low. With strict monitoring, its then possible intervene right before the number of infections becomes untraceable.

I'm not arguing against murphy's law, I'm arguing against this woefully silly and outright dangerous mindset of "us vs them" when it comes to something as real and serious as this disease. Tracing, testing, and staged opening can and should be done to save both people and the jobs society supports.

[Anonymous No.11697704]

>>11697100
I don't think anyone is saying that a full lockdown should be in effect indefinitely, that's not a desirable situation. How soon to end it though is what's up for debate, and the right answer is not as straightforward as you make it seem.

[Anonymous No.11697711]

>>11697687
Anon, I don't think we even disagree.

[Anonymous No.11697737]

>>11696797
So you're saying there's 0% chance that this is a coverup something else? THat's the point of the matrix, I'm not tryin to spread "the truth" It's just a thought exercise.

[Anonymous No.11697762]

>>11697737
>0% chance that this is a coverup
I'm not that anon but yes. You sound like a schizo.

[Anonymous No.11697774]

>>11696804
sweden and uk have gargantuan negro populations

[Anonymous No.11697801]

>>11697762

[Anonymous No.11697880]

>>11697774
Retard

[Anonymous No.11697909]

Corona isn't nearly enough.
If it was up to me I'd knock a digit off the total world population

[Anonymous No.11697983]

>>11697909
Good thing you're a total loser who won't ever amount to anything then

[Anonymous No.11698010]

>>11692261
Its astonishing that there are virtually no credible information sources that give an unbiased, analytical and balanced analysis on this topic. Or any topic of international and scientific importance.

I thought by now there would be at least one group, institution, or agency, which collates and analyses information, takes into account all considerations ( political, social, cultural, economic etc ) and can deliver a level headed and rational summary of a situation.

Case in point.
>Sweden, for example, is projected to lose 6.1% of its GDP in 2020**.

Is this an effect of their own decisions or an effect caused by other countries going into lock down and thus indirectly affecting Sweden's economy? If both then what is the ratio of effect?
The reference does not address the underlying reasons, whereas it is obviously critically important to know.

[Anonymous No.11698357]

>>11696661
1. Moloch was a Canaanite deity used in child sacrifice

2. What the fuck this has to do with Qanon faggotry is beyond me but you appear to be a retard expert so I am sure you have some really retarded reply for this that is, of course, retarded, because you have no idea wtf you are talking about

3. In the Clinton and Weiner leaked emails published on wikileaks and the FBI website there are direct references to making sacrifices to Moloch

4. You are a retard

[Anonymous No.11698394]

>>11696661
dip shit

[Anonymous No.11698737]

>>11696818
>ad hominem

[Anonymous No.11698754]

>>11692292
Hypocrisy, the post.

[Anonymous No.11698760]

>>11692317
How many die for other diseases, hunger or wars?

[Anonymous No.11698828]

>>11698357
Pizzagate is real

[Anonymous No.11698903]

>>11698394
i don't get what the big deal is about. so what one guy is part of a weird religion. clinton wasn't doing this stuff. hes free to practice his weird religion all he wants.

[Anonymous No.11698931]

>>11698394
Uhm, isnt this just a joke?

[Anonymous No.11699518]

>>11698394
This is fake as shit

[Anonymous No.11699538]

>>11698828
Your micropenis is real

[Anonymous No.11699541]

>>11692261
so what are we supposed to do anon?
just sustain a lockdown? for how long?

[Anonymous No.11699543]

>>11698010
>Sweden
Finland, Norway,Denmark treat Sweden as a pariah state.
https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2020-05-20-sweden-s-expected-antibody-results-revealed---tegnell-knocked-out-hope-of-herd-protection.r1M6dRl7iI.html

https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/?scale=linear&location=Denmark&location=Finland&location=Norway&location=Sweden

[Anonymous No.11699545]

>>11692277
Average age of people who died in my country is like 85. Nothing of value would be lost

[Anonymous No.11699558]

>>11699545
ok mr death panel

[Anonymous No.11699576]

>>11699541
>just sustain a lockdown
No, not indefinitely obviously. But long enough for tracing measures to be effective. China is back in business for example, and they're economically doing better than the US.

[Anonymous No.11699624]

>>11698010
Anon, it's near impossible to trace the exact mechanisms responsible for this in such a short amount of time without making assumptions. Aside from that, does it really matter? Because if you know that lockdown measures of your neighboring countries will hurt your economy, then it would be Nash equilibrium to impose them too.

[Anonymous No.11699632]

I don't know why people assume that COVID19 is just gonna go away and never come back again. It's a flu, by definition it mutates and comes back every year. Just because things aren't bad now doesn't mean it's gonna get any easier to contain each year.

[Anonymous No.11699640]

>>11699518
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/30489
Literally 15 seconds of searching.

[Anonymous No.11699648]

>>11692261
Anyone done an estimate of cost per life saved? I tried with UK numbers and guesses: Something like £200 billion for the government to pay people's wages and cost to the economy (I think that could well be a fair bit higher) to save a few hundred thousand max = £ 1 million each, order of magnitude. If an NHS treatment cost that much it wouldn't get funded.

[Anonymous No.11699650]

>>11699632
I agree that it'd be stupid to say that it'll just disappear, but I just wanted to point out that it's not 'a flu'. It's a coronavirus, not an influenza virus. Its rate of mutation is lower that what is typically seen for influenza, so that's at least a small cause for cautious optimism.

[Anonymous No.11699657]

>>11699640
Fake as in it's a fucking joke, not an actual literal claim to perform a sacrifice.

[Anonymous No.11699658]

>>11699648
the lives they are saving are mostly old people living in pain with low life expectancy

in what world is the death of an 18 year old equal to that of a 95 year cancer patient?

[Anonymous No.11699662]

>>11699648
Try calculating the cost of unrestricted virus spread. You think it'll be busyness as usual when a third of the population is sick? Not saying they'd all die obviously but it'd be stupid to think that the economy could function when the working force is knocked out, even for a couple of weeks.

[Anonymous No.11699664]

>>11699657
Oh, my bad, we're in agreement then, it's amazing to me how many of these pagliacci's think the bible is some big secret.

[Anonymous No.11699665]

>>11699658
>in what world
functioning democracies

[Anonymous No.11699689]

>>11699658
>the lives they are saving are mostly old people living in pain with low life expectancy
See point 2 in the OP.

[Anonymous No.11699738]

It's pretty crazy to see the contrast between US /sci/ and European /sci/ in terms of post quality. No wonder the US is going to shit.

[Anonymous No.11699755]

>>11699657
you are a moron stfu

[Anonymous No.11699761]

>>11698828
I am well aware, I mean are there morons on this board that such autistic shut in retards that don't don't know who Epstein is? Stupid question I know of course there are

[Anonymous No.11699775]

>>11699662
>You think it'll be busyness as usual when a third of the population is sick?
With no restrictions in place a lot of that infected third could still work, and even if they couldn't they'll only be out a couple of weeks instead of 2+ months of lockdown.
Actually, forget all that, how can you possibly argue that some of the workforce out for a few weeks would cost anywhere near as much as lockdown for months???

[Anonymous No.11699776]

>>11699518
>I had no idea wtf I was talking about in my last post but this time 5 mins later I do guise trust me
no you are stupid as shit

[Anonymous No.11699820]

>>11699755
No U

[Anonymous No.11699828]

>>11699775
You can argue this because it has happened before. In the second wave of the Spanish flu the virus spread basically unchecked, and it caused major economic damages because lots of companies went bankrupt simply because massive simultaneous illnesses caused disruption of the supply chain.

[Anonymous No.11699837]

>>11699776
>seeth

[Anonymous No.11699867]

>>11699775
>>11699828
Just to back this up with a source:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Papers.cfm?abstract_id=3561560

> What are the economic consequences of an influenza pandemic? And given the pandemic, what are the economic costs and benefits of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPI)? Using geographic variation in mortality during the 1918 Flu Pandemic in the U.S., we find that more exposed areas experience a sharp and persistent decline in economic activity. The estimates imply that the pandemic reduced manufacturing output by 18%. The downturn is driven by both supply and demand-side channels. Further, building on findings from the epidemiology literature establishing that NPIs decrease influenza mortality, we use variation in the timing and intensity of NPIs across U.S. cities to study their economic effects. We find that cities that intervened earlier and more aggressively do not perform worse and, if anything, grow faster after the pandemic is over. Our findings thus indicate that NPIs not only lower mortality; they may also mitigate the adverse economic consequences of a pandemic.

[Anonymous No.11699876]

>>11692602
>If and when this virus makes it into the bat and or bird population, this could quickly turn into an extinction-level event.

PLEASE! OH PLEASE!

[Anonymous No.11699900]

>>11699658
In what world would you have to chose between these two anon. It's a false dichotomy.

[Anonymous No.11699913]

>>11692261

People die but we usually don't report the cause of death. With Covid-19, it doesn;t even require a positive confirmation of infection, yet alone a post-mortem confirmation of death.

This is exactly reflected in the statistics. The chance of dying is perfectly distibuted with age. That is, your chance of dying from Covid-19 is your chance of dying fullstop.

HurrDurr let's completely lock down the hospitals and drop preventitive medicine uptake 50% because old people are dying. More people will die BECAUSE of covid-19 than DUE to covid-19. For example, in the UK of the nearly 60k excess deaths, only 2/3 have been attributed to covid-19 even given the completely retarded way cause of deaths are being recorded.

It takes intelligence to make the difficult choices. Now fuck off you stupid cunt.

[Anonymous No.11699921]

>>11699913
Fucking retard.

> The chance of dying is perfectly distibuted with age. That is, your chance of dying from Covid-19 is your chance of dying fullstop.
Simply false. This would be predicted if the disease is a risk multiplier, which is basically what it is. You are more likely to die when you are old, but exceedingly more likely to die when you are old and have the disease. You literally implying that this disease does not kill anyone, not even the elderly, which is beyond retarded.

[Anonymous No.11699924]

>>11699913
>UK of the nearly 60k excess deaths, only 2/3 have been attributed to covid-19

>the uk has a ton of extra deaths and only the large majority are due to the disease
>therefore, the disease is not a problem
how fucking dumb can you be

[Anonymous No.11699939]

>>11699924
Not him. Reducing mortality rate of the elderly is not a useful policy goal and misinformation is more admirable of a course than your righteous indignation. People like you are an impediment to progress and should face criminal penalties.

[Anonymous No.11699944]

>>11699939
>misinformation is more admirable
only on 4chan folks

[Anonymous No.11699952]

>>11699939
See point 2 in the OP, it's not the only goal you mong.

also, see >>11699867
historical data suggest that economic consequences are prevented by early and strict interventions.

>People like you are an impediment to progress and should face criminal penalties.
pic related is a house fire that you can go and die in

[Anonymous No.11699976]

THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD ARE AUTISTIC INCELS THAT NEVER HAVE THE FIRST CLUE WTF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT ANYTHING

[Anonymous No.11699979]

>>11699944
>muh truth
Better go back to Church, son.

[Anonymous No.11699990]

>>11699979
how about you go fuck off somewhere and let the adults talk

[Anonymous No.11699997]

>>11699952
>historical data suggest that economic consequences are prevented by early and strict interventions.
Historical data suggests more efficient use of capital resources following plagues and a rise in productivity, so in point of fact, the opposite is true. These interventions you state are designed with the policy goal of reducing mortality from the disease and any economic intervention that follows is purely a consequence of the antecedent and would not have arisen in se. NGMI, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.11699998]

CHECK THEM!!!!

[Anonymous No.11700001]

>>11696804
How are these charts per capita?

[Anonymous No.11700005]

>>11699990
>the disease is a problem, let the adults talk

[Anonymous No.11700012]

>>11699921
Some satistics to back up your arguments would be nice. Otherwise you just sound like the crowing reatrd that I suspect you are. Let me give you some.

For exameple, on current figures, ~1/3 of all patients who die 'from' covid-19 have diabetes. This compares to 15% who die with diabetes every year.

Based on this alone around half of the covid-19 patients with diabaetes will have died anyway. Again this is in the novel context of covid-19 SOLELY being listed as the cause of death (thus a large number are being misreported), and that the overall death rate has increased in lockdown as people are mising treatments, immunocomprimised patients are being squeezed together in ill suited hospital wards etc.Will more diabates patients die in 2020 than 2019? Probably. Will this be higher than the 10-15% increase in year on year number of deaths that e.g. seasonal flu can cause? Maybe not.

In other words, of those who die at least 75% will have died anyway. The end of year death numbers will be fascinating for sure.
Conversely the death rate for young healthy people from Covid-19 is much less than 1%. If you were not due to die, you are not going to die form Covid-19.

[Anonymous No.11700014]

>>11699997
>Historical data suggests more efficient use of capital resources following plagues and a rise in productivity
you do see that following and during are two different concepts, right? we're talking bout the immediate economic fallout due to the pandemic, and how early intervention limits that fallout. the abstract posted earlier directly evidences that the regions that imposed the strictest regulations suffered less severe immediate loss of productivity, and showed a faster surge in productivity following the acute stages of the pandemic.

[Anonymous No.11700017]

>>11699761
>t. retard who doesn't don't know who Barr is

[Anonymous No.11700021]

>>11700014
The intervention is designed to lower mortality rates and prevent overburdening the healthcare system (again, boils back to the same point.) The economic malaise is the result of these restrictions.

[Anonymous No.11700032]

>>11700017
This is such a stupid nonsensical response that has nothing to do with the conversation is posted @ I can only assume you are the same moron from the steel beams thread who couldn't understand the 5 simple words in the post you responded too over and over. Surely someone as retarded and schizo as you are can't have a doppelganger here as stupid as you are

[Anonymous No.11700036]

>>11700032
kek

[Anonymous No.11700040]

>>11700032
>projecting schizo

[Anonymous No.11700052]

>>11700012
>Some satistics to back up your arguments would be nice.
You've already given them yourself you mong. Not that you've provided any sources whatsoever, but I'll ignore that for now.

What it boils down to is you claiming that no or few people die of this disease than of natural causes. If that were the case, you would simply not see excess mortality that is attributable to the disease. Yet, here we are.

>will have died anyway
I only see the most fucking retarded people make this mistake. Everyone dies at some point. It's about shortening life expectancy, which is undeniable for this disease, or any other disease for that matter. Moreover, how much it shortens life expectancy far exceeds seasonal influenza (ref 1 and 2 in the OP), and is thus cause for measures to slow its spread.

On top of that, you somehow seem to have some sort of fetish for fatality rates in patients with comorbidity but are completely overlooking the fact that fatalities in non-comorbid patients is far from zero. No one dies because they are old. Elderly die because disease is more prevalent in old age, and it is also the case for the current disease.

[Anonymous No.11700065]

>>11700021
>The economic malaise is the result of these restrictions.
Then you simply did not read that abstract or failed to see the point. Under your hypothesis, that measures are what cause loss of productivity, you would predict that regions where strict measures were put in place would also suffer the most economic consequences. This is prediction turns out to be false, and we see the opposite. Regions where strict measures were taken show the smallest drop in productivity, and a sharper increase in the following period.

[Anonymous No.11700068]

>>11700032
oooh, that touched your sore spot didn't it

[Anonymous No.11700078]

>>11700065
The more deaths, the more efficient use of capital resources.

[Anonymous No.11700080]

>>11700078
you're missing the point again numbnuts

[Anonymous No.11700082]

To all the people in or have been locked down, you are being deceived. There is no proof a virus is causing any disease let alone the new hypoxia called Covid-19. Once you grasp the total fallacy that viruses are able to destroy cells, as it’s like saying ping pong balls destroy houses. How do you know ping pongs destroy houses, well we found some ping pong fragments in the debris. Has anyone seen a ping pong destroy a house, No but we all believe it’s the ping pongs. Ok have you seen a ping pong destroy a wall, No, then why do you think it destroys houses, someone told me at school and on the Tell A Vision. Ok, show me a ping pong, here there’s loads of them here in this sports shop, OK, why aren’t they destroying the sports shop? Oh they only destroy some houses not all. Ok, tell me again why you think they destroy houses?
Please see through this Nonsense!
Dr Tom Cowan and Dr Andrew Kaufman can explain it far better than me.

[Anonymous No.11700085]

>>11692276
it's quite funny how /sci/ and /pol/ switched roles, it was /sci/ who was making fun of /pol/ for making such a big deal of the chink flu at first

[Anonymous No.11700087]

>>11700082
>the total fallacy that viruses are able to destroy cells
wew lad, haven't seen this level of schizo in a while

how about you try taking an aids cock up your ass and tell me how you're doing in a few years

[Anonymous No.11700088]

>>11700080
Your premise was fallacious in the first place, brainlet. Anything that followed was a worthless word salad appealing to muh discussion section of studies that low IQ individuals take as sacrosanct. Its obvious you've never published and aren't a scientist and are just being a redditor regurgitating feel good moralizing things under dude science because you don't have a life. Please consider procuring some pentobarbital.

>historical data suggest that economic consequences are prevented by early and strict interventions.

[Anonymous No.11700096]

>>11700088
>hurr durr I don't have an argument so I'll just start shitting all over myself
surrender accepted you dumb cunt

>Its obvious you've never published and aren't a scientist
I don't usually respond to shit like this, but since you insist, pic related are my google scholar metrics you stupid faggot

[Anonymous No.11700101]

>>11700087
Checkout Peter Duesberg's work on the cause of AIDS, it is not a virus called HIV. Also loo at the inventor of the PCR test, Kary Mullis, he never found any research proving AIDS was caused by a virus. I know it's a big one but Germ Theory is just that a theory, it has been fraudulently 'proven' with extremely poor science. No one has isolated a virus under Kock's Postulates (Scientific Method) to prove any virus causes a disease. Don't trust my word for it, do some research for yourselves. I only figured this out because of the lock down and all the spare time I had.

[Anonymous No.11700103]

>>11700096
Why did you blur out the gmail when we can still see the text

[Anonymous No.11700104]

>>11700103
try sending it an email and you'll see

[Anonymous No.11700116]

>>11692261
To all the people in or have been locked down, you are being deceived. There is no proof a virus is causing any disease let alone the new hypoxia called Covid-19. Once you grasp the total fallacy that viruses are able to destroy cells.
It is like saying ping pong balls destroy houses. How do you know ping pongs destroy houses, well we found some ping pong fragments in the debris. Has anyone seen a ping pong destroy a house, No but we all believe it’s the ping pongs. Ok have you seen a ping pong destroy a wall, No, then why do you think it destroys houses, someone told me at school and on the Tell A Vision. Ok, show me a ping pong, here there’s loads of them here in this sports shop, OK, why aren’t they destroying the sports shop? Oh they only destroy some houses not all. Ok, tell me again why you think they destroy houses?
Please see through this Nonsense!
Dr Tom Cowan and Dr Andrew Kaufman can explain it far better than me.

[Anonymous No.11700120]

>>11700103
Meanwhile playing single player on flight mode during quarantine

[Anonymous No.11700123]

>>11700101
>>11700116
stop spamming you fucking retard and take that schizo shit to /pol/

[Anonymous No.11700125]

>>11700096
Damn, you won the game.

Side note, my h-index is 8 but total citations<100 :-(

[Anonymous No.11700145]

>>11700052
>see excess mortality that is attributable to the disease
>excess mortality
>attributable to the disease

Like the 50k excess deaths in the UK (10% increase in total) due to flu last year?

[Anonymous No.11700147]

>>11700123
LOL, your a very charming individual! So I'm a retard for figuring this out. We have all been lied to from birth that we all should be afraid of an invisible space invader and each other! You want to keep believing that fine, I am really relieved that it is all total nonsense. So I'm not worried about this second wave. Shame that most people are being scared by this propaganda there an invisible enemy out there! Are you one of those hiding from an invisible ping pong ball that can destroy house?

[Anonymous No.11700148]

>>11700123

[Anonymous No.11700150]

>>11700145
>flu
See point 1 in the OP

[Anonymous No.11700154]

>>11700103
welcome newfriend

[Anonymous No.11700158]

>>11700150
>Point 1
11% infection rate seen in Madrid, one of the worst cities hit. 6% for the whole of Spain. It will take years for Covid-19 to infect the whole world.

[Anonymous No.11700170]

>>11700158
Are we just going to completely ignore the fact that Spain imposed some of the strictest lockdown measures in Europe?

But besides that, yes, it will take time for this disease to spread globally, like any other disease. It's the rate of spread that needs slowing down regardless.

And all of that has literally nothing to do with its IRF, which is undeniably higher than that of the flu.

[Anonymous No.11700178]

Is Covid-19 a new diseased caused by a virus?
Is there definitive proof a virus is causing Covid-19?
1. Reports of a new pneumonia type illness where seen in the Central Hospital of Wuhan, Hubei province, China . The patients had mild hypoxaemia with low oxygen levels. Both lungs had inflammation despite the white and red blood cell counts being normal.
2. Professor Yong-Zhen Zhang at the Wuhan Lab extracted lung fluid from 9 patients. The lung fluid was then tested via the reverse-transcription Polymerase Chain Reaction (rt-PCR) method to sequence its genome. The fluid was not purified before the rt-PCT test. The lung fluid was not put through the purification process of Ultracentrifugation to then isolate the supposed virus and other cell debris like exosomes and lung cells. The supposed virus and exosomes mixture was not separated out, to be visualised in order to be able to extracted only the virus. At no point was an extracted virus sample used to infect a healthy person to confirm that the virus was causing the disease. In other words, Kock’s Postulates were not satisfied, a process to determine if the virus is the cause of the disease. Also no control group was used to compare the lung fluid genome sequence of healthy people.
3. The lung fluids genome sequence, containing the mixture of possible genetic material, was uploaded to GenBank & Virus Pathogen Database (ViPR) to create a reference genome sequence for SARS CoV 2 . This sequence should not have been used as the reference for other rt-PCR tests to confirm a virus being present in the samples.

[Anonymous No.11700179]

4. A Genome Detective tool was created (Coronavirus Typing Tool ) based on the reference genome. Once a laboratory had run a full rt-PCR test, the sequence obtained from that sample should have be compared to the extracted and isolated virus’s genome sequence. However, the samples sequence is compared against the un-purified Wuhan lung fluids. Also, coders for the Genome Detective Tool have expressed concern that the tool is not able to filter out false positives.
5. The Centre for Disease Control (CDC) holds the US patents on SARS, MERS & CoV 2 as well as other Corona viruses and the Pirbright Institute holds the European patents , so it is not possible without a license to independently research any corona virus. Given that no one can research the corona virus, there are not any independent testing methods or independently produced testing kits. Only the CDC and Pirbright are able to grant manufacturing licenses of its own patented testing kits and has manufacturers in China and Germany.
6. The CDC produced rapid test kit do not require the patient’s sample to be purified from other genetic material before the rt-PCT. Therefore, the results cannot be trusted, Pawpaw and goat samples tested positive with these COVID-19 testing kits in Tanzania .

[Anonymous No.11700181]

Also 4m+ annual deaths from pollution, 0.5m flu deaths. The flu season matches the seasonal pollution increases on chemical like ozone, sulphur dioxide, benzene and hydrogen cyanide. The second wave has 4m people that could be reclassified as Covid-19 cases. Be aware the whole pandemic is based very bad science if can call it that!

Have you noticed autopsy’s are not being done and if they are, they are no longer doing toxicity reports?
Until we start seeing real autopsy’s with toxicity reports clearly showing the patients dying with hypoxia are not being poisoned by cyanide or other poisons/toxins, we can not just believe it is a virus.

[Anonymous No.11700185]

>>11700178
>>11700179
>>11700181
>wall-of-text schizo
errytime

[Anonymous No.11700186]

Cyanide ions interfere with iron-containing respiratory enzymes.
Other toxins call also cause the new Hypoxia.

[Anonymous No.11700188]

>>11700181
This schizo shit is comedy gold

[Anonymous No.11700189]

Is a poison/toxin the cause of the new Hypoxia? (Which is not new but a growing global problem for decades now.)

[Anonymous No.11700194]

I’ve been looking for a new poison that matches up with SARS, MERS & CoV 2. It looks like it could be a new fungicide, Myclobutanil, when burnt it releases cyanide gas. It’s been responsible for SARS like symptoms in the first vaping cartridges is 2002, then in cannabis vapes in 2012. It’s also managed to get in vaccines that have been cultured in certain mediums like bovine fetal serum, like the flu vaccine. It’s found in all modern vape oils but not as high as the 2002 and 2012 batches.
Hydrogen Cyanide production has sky rocketed over the last 10 years, it is so many things now.

[Anonymous No.11700195]

>>11692317
You do realize that the economy going down the shitter also directly and indirectly kills people too, right? It's not just braindead economists being braindead economists.

[Anonymous No.11700203]

>>11700188
Could you do one of those meme thing's of ping pong balls destroying house?

[Anonymous No.11700207]

>>11700170
Lock down introduced 14 March. First confirmed European case in 27 December so ~2 months of unregulated spread of a completely novel virus.

Exposure does not equal infection and this virus is apparently piss weak. For many, inate immunity response is enough. Increasing the chance of repeat exposure, by for example, enclosing everyone inside aprtment block buidings, may have increase rate of infection.

[Anonymous No.11700220]

>>11700207
> apparently piss weak
No idea where you're getting this from. Is it super AIDS? No. But it's simply more lethal than the flu.
>Increasing the chance of repeat exposure, by for example, enclosing everyone inside aprtment block buidings, may have increase rate of infection.
Simply not the case because pretty much everywhere you look the rate of infection exponentially went up without measures and went down following measures with a delay equal to the incubation period. Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria, the United States, the UK, etc. They all show this pattern, with peak infection rates proportional to the delay in imposing measures.

[Anonymous No.11700231]

>>11692261
One of our coworkers tested positive, so 30 of us are on 14-day furlough. That's not sustainable.

[Anonymous No.11700244]

Yes, tell them OP!!!

I offer a toast!- to good health and saving lives by staying inside!! Here here!!! #flattenthecurve #thenewnormal #thankyounurses #inthistogether #drumphbodycount

[Anonymous No.11700249]

>>11692276
>Now it's just a matter of time before the /pol/tards come rushing in with misinformation

[Anonymous No.11700258]

>>11700231
I suggest you look into how rubbish the tests are? A papaya and goats tested positive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn79u2HgcTY&t=14s

[Anonymous No.11700269]

>>11700244
How is staying inside going to save lives?
No one has proven there is a virus causing the new hypoxia. The plandemic is all based on fake science. The test kits are totally rubbish, a papaya and goats tested positive. https://youtu.be/9WBAFQedumk

[Anonymous No.11700289]

>>11700249
There literally are /pol/tards in this thread who are saying that posting misinformation is admirable

[Anonymous No.11700307]

>>11700258
>>11700269
>african news
my main source for information

>>11700231
it is, since we are talking about a serious illness that should be prevented to be spread by idiots

[Anonymous No.11700314]

>>11692638
>>11692646
go back

[Anonymous No.11700324]

>>11692261
There is no scientific evidence for mass quarantine.

It's impractical and does more harm than good. By restricting movement and narrowing services people tossed back to more primitive means to survive.

And having so little information on the virus itself the models, which is all you really have, become meaningless and fail miserably to inform the known reality.

There are more viruses than other are stars, while only a few are dangerous, this does not change the universal fact that one could have a virus and not get sick.

[Anonymous No.11700327]

>>11700324
>There is no scientific evidence for mass quarantine.
read the thread dumbass

[Anonymous No.11700332]

>>11692277

fucking capitalist pig kys

[Anonymous No.11700335]

>>11700307
>/pol/tards
What illness are you talking about? The original Hypoxia that looks like cyanide poisoning?
Or are you on about the illness that is now everything, strokes, blood clotting etc etc. Covid-19 is only supposed to be about the low oxygen levels, Hypoxia, being caused by something. We never go to see the toxicity reports. All we have is a genome sequence from lung fluid extraction, which were not purified.
I think most people do not even realise what Covid-19 is supposed to be any more due to the massive amounts of illnesses being piled into the classification of Covid-19.

[Anonymous No.11700337]

>>11700327
Find a study, you fucking pathetic piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.11700338]

>>11700335
>What illness are you talking about?
your literal schizophrenia

[Anonymous No.11700342]

>>11700338
Here is the study on the new disease, read it.
1. Reports of a new pneumonia type illness where seen in the Central Hospital of Wuhan, Hubei province, China . The patients had mild hypoxaemia with low oxygen levels. Both lungs had inflammation despite the white and red blood cell counts being normal.
2. Professor Yong-Zhen Zhang at the Wuhan Lab extracted lung fluid from 9 patients. The lung fluid was then tested via the reverse-transcription Polymerase Chain Reaction (rt-PCR) method to sequence its genome. The fluid was not purified before the rt-PCT test. The lung fluid was not put through the purification process of Ultracentrifugation to then isolate the supposed virus and other cell debris like exosomes and lung cells. The supposed virus and exosomes mixture was not separated out, to be visualised in order to be able to extracted only the virus. At no point was an extracted virus sample used to infect a healthy person to confirm that the virus was causing the disease. In other words, Kock’s Postulates were not satisfied, a process to determine if the virus is the cause of the disease. Also no control group was used to compare the lung fluid genome sequence of healthy people.

[Anonymous No.11700344]

>>11700337
here you go:
>>11699867

[Anonymous No.11700347]

Sorry the filter removed the link
Here is the title search for it.
A new coronavirus associated with human respiratory disease in China

[Anonymous No.11700354]

>>11700347
You sound tired, you should go to sleep. Preferably permanently.

[Anonymous No.11700357]

>>11700344
"Large-Scale Quarantine Measures There are no historical observations or scientific studies that support the confinement by quarantine of groups of possibly infected people for extended periods in order to slow the spread of influenza. A World Health Organization (WHO) Writing Group, after reviewing the literature and considering contemporary international experience, concluded that “forced isolation and quarantine are ineffective and impractical.”2 Despite this recommendation by experts, mandatory large-scale quarantine continues to be considered as an option by some authorities and government officials.35,43 The interest in quarantine reflects the views and conditions prevalent more than 50 years ago, when much less was known about the epidemiology of infectious diseases and when there was far less international and domestic travel in a less densely populated world. It is difficult to identify circumstances in the past half-century when large-scale quarantine has been effectively used in the control of any disease. The negative consequences of large-scale quarantine are so extreme (forced confinement of sick people with the well; complete restriction of movement of large populations; difficulty in getting critical supplies, medicines, and food to people inside the quarantine zone) that this mitigation measure should be eliminated from serious consideration."

That's from Disease Mitigation Measures in the Control of Pandemic Influenza. Henderson co-written by Dr. Donald Henderson the doctor that eradicated smallpox.

And you post what exactly?

[Anonymous No.11700361]

>>11700354
Too much truth for you. What have you got to gain by believing in a lie?
Do you want to be locked down for ever and live in a Police State?

[Anonymous No.11700365]

>>11692631

it actually already mutated into 200 different variation in wuhan alone

[Anonymous No.11700366]

>>11700289
I don't care. I'll support any misinformation so long as it helps open parks, beaches, clubs, and sports back up. Fuck boomers

[Anonymous No.11700371]

>>11700354
>You sound tired, you should go to sleep. Preferably permanently.

[Anonymous No.11700380]

>>11700357
>And you post what exactly?
I posted a study from this year that shows literally the exact opposite. That mitigation strategies other than pharmaceutical intervention prevent mortality and moreover soften the economic consequences of a pandemic.

Your study was published in 2006 and in a shit journal. No wonder it's only been cited 6 times, that's laughable.

It's simply wrong to assert that there is no evidence that NPIs work, it only holds if you consider the recent past. But you'd be ignoring the one pandemic that is most comparable to the current one. You'd also be ignoring the evidence we see unfolding right now, where countries that have intervened the earliest (e.g. Germany) are doing far better than countries did so late (e.g. the UK).

[Anonymous No.11700383]

>>11700366
proving my point you shitheel

[Anonymous No.11700402]

>>11700335
Im talking about Covid.

>Hypoxia that looks like cyanide poisoning?
Wat?

>I think most people do not even realise what Covid-19 is supposed to be any mo
So the total increase of death rates in Italy, Spain, New York, UK etc are higher than in previous years, because ...?

[Anonymous No.11700406]

>>11700383
Misinformation is the elites best tool, if they can just keep pushing us away from the truth with people like Alex Jones, Dr Buttar, Dr Shiva, Dr Mikovits. All of these people are spinning half truths with a layer of misdirection, so you get to the truth. Viruses are exosomes, exosomes are not infectious disease causing. So we need to fine the toxin that is causing the disease.

[Anonymous No.11700407]

>>11700402
What data are you using to prove more deaths have happen this year, are you using the projections based on estimates from an algorithm?

[Anonymous No.11700411]

>>11699867
A theoretical model that is self serving is not real evidence. Since when does statistics discern causality? Has this board gotten stupid?


It's a theory and given the quality of data, that's a stretch. There is nothing there to verify the data is true to point to the virus itself and that is simply because the science at the time was in the dark about the virus.

It's data based on panic, mass hysteria, not medical facts about the virus nor real data about the epidemiology.

You cited article is not evidence for you claim. It's speculation from secondary sources. It's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.11700415]

>>11700407
Also the original disease that was showing up in Wuhan was: Hypoxia
(Extract from the paper)
The patient reported fever, chest tightness, unproductive cough, pain and weakness for 1 week on presentation (Table 1). Physical examination of cardiovascular, abdominal and neurological characteristics was that these were normal. Mild lymphopoenia (defined as less than 9 × 105 cells per ml) was observed, but white blood cell and blood platelet counts were normal in a complete blood count test. Elevated levels of C-reactive protein (41.4 mg l−1 of blood; reference range, 0–6 mg l−1) were observed and the levels of aspartate aminotransferase, lactic dehydrogenase and creatine kinase were slightly elevated in blood chemistry tests. The patient had mild hypoxaemia with oxygen levels of 67 mm Hg as determined by an arterial blood gas test.

[Anonymous No.11700418]

>>11700380
You posted a statistical speculation. NOT A REAL STUDY. That's not real evidence for a medical phenomenon. It's a lens using secondary sources.

[Anonymous No.11700422]

>>11700220
>rate of infection exponentially went up

I assume you you mean number of infections exponentially went up? Do you even know what exponentially means?

Also, you're conflating infecitivity with lethality. Essentially, fuck off because you clearly don't know what you don't know.

[Anonymous No.11700424]

>>11700411
>A theoretical model
you should have read the paper you dumb cunt, it's not a theoretical model but an empirical study using mortality data.

>>11700418
Fuck off cunt, it's not speculation but an empirical paper. Try reading it.

[Anonymous No.11700430]

>>11700422
>I assume you you mean number of infections exponentially went up?
yes, that I what I meant you fucking pedant.

>you're conflating infecitivity with lethality.
I'm absolutely not.

[Anonymous No.11700431]

>>11700380
>Your study was published in 2006 and in a shit journal

It was commissioned by the DOD. It was co-written by Dr. Henderson, the same doctor that helped eradicate smallpox.

You have an article written by nobody in particular for journal forum that is reviewed mostly by other nobodies.

[Anonymous No.11700434]

>>11700380
Not him but it's been cited 90 times you fucking idiot.

>>11700424
Good paper. Thanks!

[Anonymous No.11700438]

>>11700424
It's based on a historical event, how does a test-tube brat like yourself test that?

[Anonymous No.11700440]

>>11700431
>MIT
>nobody
Face it, you're out of arguments.

[Anonymous No.11700443]

>>11700438
>hurr durr what is retrospective prediction
Are you really this fucking dumb? You're really saying that we cannot look at past measures and their absence to infer what their effects are?

[Anonymous No.11700457]

MOLYMEME BTFO ALL YOU KEKS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWQXjEgGslg

[Anonymous No.11700465]

>>11700430
Then you have confirmed you are a retard as you don't even understand basic terminology. A variable rate of infection is of course expected and will affected by numerous factors, including quarantine measures. It is also very difficult to estimate, especially given the current shit tier testing of infections in the wider population.

As you need some basic schooling, you are aware that your bank account balance grows exponentially aren't you? Are you a millionaire? Why the fuck do we care if numbers of cases are growing exponentially? Also,its fucking logistic growth. Your ignorence compels me. You're welcome.

[Anonymous No.11700466]

>>11700440
Your speculative paper is not a real argument for mass quarantining because it doesn't offer real evidence that can be tested.

The best a worthless little shit like you could with that paper is check the math.

You one paper that has zero application to the medical science of a mass quarantining. It's correlation after correlation of secondary sources.

Build a time machine and go verify the data against the actual nature and then come back to tell us how close your theory got.

Suck it loser.

[Anonymous No.11700472]

>>11700443
Show me model that's been right, Freguson

[Anonymous No.11700475]

>>11700383
>PROVING MY POINT YOU SHITHEEL!!!!!

[Anonymous No.11700477]

>tfw I'm the only person shopping at Publix without a mask

[Anonymous No.11700481]

>>11700466
Cope

[Anonymous No.11700482]

>>11700465
>Why the fuck do we care if numbers of cases are growing exponentially?
because we were talking about the effectiveness of mitigation measures you shit for brains. We care that the number is growing before measures were put in place, and drops following measures. Moreover, peak infection rates scale with time lag between imposing measures and first infection. All this implies that the measures are doing their job.

[Anonymous No.11700484]

>>11700466
>it doesn't offer real evidence that can be tested.
okay so if you're just going to continue to deny hard facts than this is the end of the conversation

you need to read more about means of generating predictions, then maybe you'll understand why you've missed the point

[Anonymous No.11700489]

>>11700481
It's not my fault you don't know how present a paper on speculative statistics as evidence for a biological phenomenon.

The failure to understand the question at hand rests solely on you.

[Anonymous No.11700491]

>>11700489
Seethe and dilate

[Anonymous No.11700503]

>>11700484
If you want to pretend that the reportage at the time was infallible, that's on you.

But if want to play games by having the models compensate for error then we're right back to statically speculation in the end, and not real medical science.

[Anonymous No.11700511]

>>11700491
Spoken like a loser, who didn't even understand the very article he tried submitting as evidence.

[Anonymous No.11700538]

>>11700482
>the number is growing before measures were put in place, and drops following measures

And what the fuck would happen otherwise? Maybe we might have lowered the rate of infection? But even goverments are no longer claiming that lockdown will affect total infections (or total deaths).

How do you explain Japan's low death rate?

But you really do lap up the spoon fed diarrhea from the 'leaders' dont you?

[Anonymous No.11700554]

>>11700538
Japan doesn't matter. Their statistics don't fit the model being used currently. So fuck off already.

[Anonymous No.11700564]

>>11700554
So the model is wrong?

So lockdown doesn't prevent deaths?

Has your retarded brain finally had an actual thought?

[Anonymous No.11700589]

>>11700564
No, you're wrong. The models work. They show probability.

[Anonymous No.11700605]

>>11700589
That's barely a sentence. Anyway, stop arguing with me for the sake of it and go away and think about what I have been saying.

[Anonymous No.11700698]

NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU ARENT ALLOWED TO GO OUT AND ENJOY YOURSELF. WE JUST FLATTENED THE CURVE AND YOUR GOING TO CAUSE A SECOND SPIKE!!!!!! STAY INSIDE AND DON'T BE SELFISH!!!! THINK OF THE HECKIN OLD PEOPLE!!!!!! ONE OF THEM COULD BE YOUR GRANDPA!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.11700701]

>>11700511
>Spoken like a loser, who didn't even understand the very article he tried submitting as evidence!!

[Anonymous No.11700703]

>>11700005

[Anonymous No.11700704]

>>11700703
>>11700701

[Anonymous No.11700713]

>>11700703
Erry tiem

[Anonymous No.11700763]

>>11700503
>reportage at the time was infallible
No dataset in the world is free of measurement error you moron. No one ever claimed that it is. You show a astounding lack of understanding how science works. It's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.11700799]

>>11700503 #
>reportage at the time was infallible
No dataset in the world is free of measurement error you moron. No one ever claimed that is the case. You show an astounding lack of understanding of how science works. It's pathetic.

[Anonymous No.11700811]

>>11700538
>And what the fuck would happen otherwise?
Well point proven then. Some fucking idiot was claiming that a lock down increases the infection rate. This is retarded, and now corrected.

[Anonymous No.11700838]

>>11700538
And reading back, it was you who claimed that measures increased the rate of infections. So now you're admitting that this was a stupid as shit claim?

[Anonymous No.11701050]

>>11700799
If no data set is free from error then you can't argue that a statistical model is real evidence for a lockdown. It's a mathematical model limited to what's interpreted, leaving it incapable of discerning causality. In short it's useless in the real world because it doesn't explain the nature we're in with a virus, it only provides a narrow way of looking.

Point to something you could test for in that model, or any model used to justify the lockdown.

Case records aren't reliable because the virus is relatively new not understood well enough to produce a provable working model. It only takes one person to throw the range out of proportion because you would have account for all probable rates of transmission.

And comparisons between regions don't work either because there no way of explaining the outliers, meaning that whatever model you choose will always be missing the necessary elements to explain such contrast.

The best you whiny little shits can do is reinterpret data to fit your bias because you're to fucking scared to admit that all you're really doing is fucking guessing.

[Anonymous No.11701094]

>>11700605
It was three sentences.

[Anonymous No.11701104]

>>11701050
>If no data set is free from error then you can't argue that a statistical model is real evidence for a lockdown.
I'm not. I'm arguing that an empirical study finds evidence for the benefits of a lockdown.

"Model" implies inference of mechanism followed by prediction. This paper is not that. This paper tests hypotheses going by data, where the data are appropriately adjusted for various known sources of measurement error, as is both extremely common and necessary in scientific practice.

This post and your other posts make it very clear that you simply did not read the paper, because you asserting plain untruths. You should read it before we can discuss any further.

[Anonymous No.11701105]

>>11700811
Well you can't prove that lockdowns reduce rate infection, either.

[Anonymous No.11701107]

>>11701105
Yes you can, by means of causal intervation, i.e. showing that the infection rate drops following a lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11701159]

>>11701107
That's correlation, you fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.11701187]

>>11701159
Correlation is inference based on co-occurrence. An intervention is a causal manipulation. Take a fucking statistics class you goddamn mongol.

[Anonymous No.11701188]

>>11701107
If it's true that lock down's necessarily reduce rate of infections, then you explain the nursing home problem, never mind how the concept of hospitals throws a wrench into your claim.

[Anonymous No.11701195]

>>11701188
It lowers the rate of infections of the population. That does not mean that people will stop getting infected. Are you stupid?

[Anonymous No.11701203]

>>11701187
You have nothing to connect the competing parameters. It's just correlation. Get over yourself, loser.

[Anonymous No.11701218]

>>11701203
jesus fucking christ it's useless to argue with you because you simply do not understand words

how the fuck do you think you test the efficacy of a drug? it's the same goddamn mechanism: an intervention that yields a consequence

[Anonymous No.11701220]

>>11701195
If it only lowers the rate then you can only suggest it slows the spread. And that clearly works against your support of lockdowns.

[Anonymous No.11701226]

>>11701218
A drug trial is not like a lockdown. You are the dumbest fucking shit there is.

[Anonymous No.11701243]

>>11701226
fuck off back to your containment board, you clearly don't belong here

[Anonymous No.11701251]

>>11701220
>you can only suggest it slows the spread
yeah, that is what I'm claiming, because it essential that the spread is slowed
>And that clearly works against your support of lockdowns.
No it doesn't, because it buys time for charting of the pathogenic processes of the disease so that treatments, antibody or otherwise, can be set up in lieu of a vaccine.

[Anonymous No.11701267]

>>11701243
Keep crying like a little bitch. You throw out terms hoping it makes you look smart.

[Anonymous No.11701276]

>>11701267
I don't need to look smart you faggot, I am smart. I throw out terms because they are appropriate. If you constantly have to google shit because you can't keep up, that's your problem.

[Anonymous No.11701300]

>>11701276
>>>11701267 #
>I don't need to look smart you faggot, I am smart. I throw out terms because they are appropriate. If you constantly have to google shit because you can't keep up, that's your problem.

[Anonymous No.11701378]

>>11701251
Same distribution but at a slower rate, meaning the problems are made wider and thus worse in the course of things.

They would love your stupid ass in China

[Anonymous No.11701435]

>>11701276
No, you're not smart. Correlation does not imply causation.

This is basic stuff here.

Without something testable to connect the two all you have is correlation. A drug trial is testable, you can experiment to find the relationship between the drug and the disease. An epidemic, not so much. You can't test for much, so you're mostly left with looking back and making limited interpretations.

But you, in all your glorious autism, think differently.

[Anonymous No.11701447]

>>11701378
>a disease with treatment is as bad as a disease without treatment
I'm running out of ways to call you stupid

[Anonymous No.11701451]

>>11701435
>Correlation does not imply causation.
I know it doesn't you faggot. An intervention is simply not correlation. This is not up for debate.

All that differs with a drug study is that there was no a-priory layout of the intervention, but there are obviously region-wise differences in the implementation of the intervention that can serve the exact same fucking purpose. In terms of making predictions, it's the same exact fucking principle. Take science 101.

[Anonymous No.11701455]

>>11701300
>expecting a parrot to explain its words.

[Anonymous No.11701463]

>>11700103
oh fuck oh shit oh fuck oh shit it's the game

[Anonymous No.11701467]

>>11701447
You basically admitted that a slower spread means longer periods of resources going towards treatment.

I bet you can't even manage your own savings.

[Anonymous No.11701545]

>>11701467
>The unit that we measure resources in is time
It's like your being dense on purpose

[Anonymous No.11701641]

>>11701545
It's like you don't even understand what "slow the spread" entails

You're fucking stupid cunt

[Anonymous No.11701688]

>>11701451
You don't know shit from shinloa, you fucking inverted zit. You spent the entire damn thread trying to defend the pathetic notion that statistics prove lockdowns reduce a pandemic.

You're a fucking fraud. And a dumb one at that. You have no idea how insanely lucky you're anonymous

[Anonymous No.11701714]

>>11701641
I know what it means shit head. It means it buys time for developing treatments. Only in your retarded world is that a bad thing.

[Anonymous No.11701720]

>>11701688
Kek, not only did you entirely miss the point, but now you're so mad you're throwing threats around? What the fuck are you gonna do you little shit head?

[Anonymous No.11701725]

>>11699867
>The estimates imply that the pandemic reduced manufacturing output by 18%
We must be more reduced than that by lockdown.

[Anonymous No.11701749]

>>11701720
Let's hear this 'point'. Maybe I am wrong, restate your position on the matter of Lockdowns.

[Anonymous No.11701759]

>>11701714
No it doesn't. Drug development doesn't require more people to be sick all the time.

[Anonymous No.11701853]

>>11701749
Thread is about to 404, read back.

[Anonymous No.11701918]

>>11701759
No, but you can't treat dead people.

[Anonymous No.11701997]

>>11701853
t. loser