/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11670097]

Do you think reality is an illusion?

[Anonymous No.11670125]

>>11670097
Reality is clamped.

[Anonymous No.11670146]

>>11670097
reality is an irregular "bubble" of an uncounted number of galaxies

[Anonymous No.11670147]

Yeah

[Anonymous No.11670155]

>>11670097
if the many world theory is to be accepted then there are infinite universes where reality is an illusion. make of that what you will.

[Anonymous No.11670163]

>>11670155
Isn't it strange that religions figured this out centuries ago?

[Anonymous No.11670167]

>>11670097
Matter doesn't actually exist, this universe is just a field of energy. We just so happen to have our consciousness emerge by sheer luck

[Anonymous No.11670189]

>>11670097
Pretty picture

[Anonymous No.11670204]

yeah but the illusion is also the reality so it doesn't really matter, we're all basically god living every way possible all at once through ourselves just to know we exist and the hell of it forever and always anyway

[Anonymous No.11670416]

>>11670163
What, that if you tell people there are many universes then you can exploit them harder while they dream about nonsense?

[Anonymous No.11670444]

>>11670416
>muh exploitation
The lower castes need a guiding hand, not giving it to them is a disservice. My children are being led to ruin today because no one is guiding them.

[Anonymous No.11670449]

>>11670097
obviously. What is reality? It is just energy separated into separate objects by magnetic fields

[Anonymous No.11670450]

The notion that something is an illusion implicitly acknowledges that there is a reality and that thing is not a part of it. Hence for reality itself to be an illusion is a self-contradicting idea.

[Anonymous No.11670453]

>>11670167
>We just so happen to have our consciousness emerge by sheer luck
You went full retard, something can only be the sum of its part. You can't create "consciousness" out of something that doesn't already possess it

[Anonymous No.11670464]

>>11670450
>muh semantics and circular reasoning
Go sit in the corner

[Anonymous No.11670479]

>>11670464
How can reality be an illusion? It doesn't make any sense. I merely pointed this out, you moron.

[Anonymous No.11670495]

>>11670416
What does this have to do with anything?

Religions were created by enlightened beings to provide other people paths towards it/faith systems to gelo them develop their enlightenment.

However, these systems, over time, have been used to control people.

This is coming from an "atheist" too

[Anonymous No.11670498]

>>11670479
Aquire brain capacity brainlet

I suggest you start taking LSD

[Anonymous No.11670500]

>>11670479
seething

[Anonymous No.11670503]

>>11670498
>>11670500
If you disagree, point out a flaw in my reasoning.

[Anonymous No.11670509]

>>11670097
"Reality" is by definition whatever isn't an illusion.

[Anonymous No.11670512]

>>11670503
You just don't understand you're too stupid to have this conversation with

You have no insight.

[Anonymous No.11670513]

>>11670503
I literally already did my man, go back and reread the posts

[Anonymous No.11670515]

>>11670450
The phenomenal world is an illusion, reality, which is actually just consciousness is not. You could also say the illusion itself, because it exists, is real(it's a real illusion)

[Anonymous No.11670518]

>>11670450
Are you in highschool? Why are you arguing semantics

[Anonymous No.11670519]

>>11670515
>real illusion
Far out, man

[Anonymous No.11670520]

>>11670512
>>11670513
Where is the circular reasoning in my argument?
And how does it make sense to call something an illusion without implicitly assuming that there's a reality that it's not a part of? It's a valid question. Clearly you don't accept the common meaning of the word illusion as "something that seems real but is not", so what do you mean by the word "illusion"?
From your inability to form a valid criticism of my argument and the overly emotional tone in your posts I get the impression that you're either low IQ or a woman.

[Anonymous No.11670522]

>>11670518
shhh let him figure it out on his own

[Anonymous No.11670524]

>>11670520
you're on your own bud, figure it out for yourself
Even if I try to explain it to you, you will only be egotistical and overly hostile/combative. Its pretty much a waste of my time and anyone else's.

[Anonymous No.11670529]

>>11670520
Lmao I kinda thought like this too before I "figured it out"

Hope you figure it out too

[Anonymous No.11670533]

>>11670515
>The phenomenal world is an illusion, reality, which is actually just consciousness is not
Ok so you agree with me. Reality cannot be an illusion. That's logical and I can understand that.
>>11670524
>>11670522
>I have no argument!
>>11670518
It's a valid argument. It's like asking "can a function have more than two outputs for one input?". The answer is that no, a function must have exactly one output for one argument because that what it means for something to be a function. The proposition that "reality itself is not real" is contradictory and hence false.

[Anonymous No.11670535]

>>11670529
Figure what out?

[Anonymous No.11670538]

>>11670533
Have you ever exliriemented with psycheldics? Grant me an answer please.

[Anonymous No.11670543]

>>11670529
Figured what out? Enlighten me. The cryptic nature of your posts and your refusal to engage indicates you haven't figured out anything and are merely coping with my flawless rebuttal of your silly notion that "reality can be an illusion".
>>11670538
No and I am not planning to. Have you? Did it provide you with any insights? Feel free to share them, I'm interested to hear them.

[Anonymous No.11670547]

>>11670535
The fact thsy you don't understand shows that we're at different levels.

You are not "ready". You haven't thought about anything worthwhile.

I'm just mean and not patient tho desu

[Anonymous No.11670549]

>>11670543
>>11670543
How old are you? Grant me this too

This is actually important
Teenagers aren't capable of having this conversation the majority of the time

[Anonymous No.11670552]

>>11670547
>we're just at different levels bro
Yeah, I'm smart and you're low IQ with nothing interesting to say. I BTFO you and now you are refusing to engage and merely calling me names, because you don't have an answer to my rebuttal. COPE harder lmao.

[Anonymous No.11670554]

>>11670549
I'm 21. That's irrelevant. If you actually had an argument or something interesting to say you would be eager to share it with others. But you don't, you're merely posturing. And believe me, it's painfully obvious to not just me but to everyone viewing this thread lol.

[Anonymous No.11670556]

>>11670554
The fact that others here understand and you don't is a failure on your behalf.

[Anonymous No.11670558]

>>11670554
at least the other guy isn't an animenigger

[Anonymous No.11670561]

>>11670556
>The fact that others here understand
Understand what? Feel free to share what you understand.
>>11670558
Tough shit.

[Anonymous No.11670571]

>>11670554
dude chill out, we don't want to talk to you because you're overly aggressive, if you haven't found the flaw in your reasoning from the greentext post then its not my job to explain it you in depth.
The idea that if you have a good argument you would share it operates on the notion that everyone is logical and the "good arguments" in a community will rise to the top. Unfortunately that just isn't the case in practicality. Some people are more logical, others are less. Everyone of course thinks that they are 100% logical (how can they not?) and consider themselves to be the ultimate judge on what good and bad reasoning is.
Unlike the other poster I don't think we're on different levels but I'm choosing not to engage with you on the topic because you remind me of some previous individuals I've talked to who after the "argument" I had to admit to myself were a waste of time. I'm trying to not give in to you making this an ego pissing contest and "debate" you because that profits neither of us. Consider why 2 separate posters now have accused you of semantics and 1 (me) has said circular reasoning. If it seems like bullshit to you, fine just move on. I'm not going to "debate" you, it will likely just be frustrating. This is probably the most honest post I've ever typed on 4chan, you caught me in a weird mood.
Anyway I was being cute earlier but I don't think I'm superior to you. I used to think a lot like you do based on your posts actually.

[Anonymous No.11670572]

>>11670554
Not him, it is obvious you are a retard and he is right. Trying to tell you anything is as fruitless as kicking yourself in the balls. You have crippling autism

[Anonymous No.11670574]

>>11670533
>Ok so you agree with me

Yeah sure, but like I said the phenomenal world is basically "nothing" it's like a dream, it has no real substance. As long as you're not mistaking that for "reality" then what you say is true.

And really it's semantics cause the very concept of "real" makes no sense, what does it even mean? that which "is"? then everything is real including things we call unreal.

[Anonymous No.11670578]

>>11670571
>You're being overly aggressive
The first reply to my post was derogatory insult. I did not start this.
>more words without saying anything
So I take it you are not going to provide a reason why you think my argument is incorrect? That's ok but you should have said so from the beginning. There is no point in arguing if you already accepted defeat.
>>11670572
Just dumb.

[Anonymous No.11670582]

>>11670571
>>11670571

This... Nice way of saying it

I'm the other guy

[Anonymous No.11670593]

>>11670578
I was trying to be funny rather than insulting with the "corner" remark. Sorry, I certainly wasn't trying to create a hostile edge.
The rest of your post is just ego stuff which is a huge part of what tips me off to a debate being a waste of time. "Accept defeat". We're supposed to battle it out over what will likely turn into hours of the same point being rephrase for...what? A fleeting moment of superiority? I don't even have a username to build a "rep" as some argument winner or something, victories and losses here mean absolutely nothing, so why are you invested?
Two years ago even I would have just plunged into the debate already.

[Anonymous No.11670594]

>>11670571
It's not even about a debate, you're just acting like a fucking autistic retard.
I made an argument. You posted the equivalent to "I DONT LIKE THIS! I DISAGREE!". I asked "why?". You sperged out. All of my subsequent posts have been trying to get an answer from you as to why you disagreed and all your subsequent posts have been how you're too cool to provide an answer. As I said, it's painfully obvious that you're a genuine moron that disliked my post but cannot point out why because you know I was right. I know because I used to be like you. But maybe one day you will grow up and start thinking more deeply about things. Then you will actually start attempting to find reasons for why you believe things and not merely base your judgements on your emotions.

[Anonymous No.11670601]

>>11670593
You created the battle by assuming an air of superiority over me without providing any actual reasons for why you disagreed.

[Anonymous No.11670607]

>>11670578
Anyway, I already provided my reason as to why your reasoning is incorrect:
>>11670464
You're now asking me to elaborate on that reasoning. I won't, I've deemed it to be a waste of time for reasons I explained above. Writing the above post was cathartic to me, but I won't get into a meaningless debate that will span hours when I've already made my "argument", as brief as it is.
If you think its ridiculous, that's on you. But last thing I will say is at least consider why everyone seems to agree with me, as from a previous post you seem to value the group's consensus.

[Anonymous No.11670608]

>>11670450
You're not trying to say that reality/illusion is the same right? Trying to be generous here

[Anonymous No.11670609]

>>11670601
See above, I did provide reasons and as I clarified, my comment was intended to be a lighthearted joke. I have clarified both that and also that I don't consider myself superior.

[Anonymous No.11670613]

>>11670594
You don't have much deep thought if you dont even understand what we're talking about.

Its that simple.

It genuinely makes this conversation much harder to have

[Anonymous No.11670615]

>>11670608
Reality and illusion are opposite things. Something that is an illusion cannot be real. That's what I and most other people consider to be an illusion.
If I look at my computer screen and see a person, there is not actually a person in my computer screen, it's an illusion, in a certain sense.

[Anonymous No.11670618]

>>11670594
All of this is just egotistical and trying really hard to draw me into a battle man. I'm not trying to be "cool" in fact I know these posts are very "uncool". I'm trying to be sincere as all. This post is just an attempt to misrepresent my posts and I think even you know that.

[Anonymous No.11670626]

>>11670607
>>11670609
Calling something "semantics" and "circular reasoning" without pointing out how is just meaningless posturing. If you point out that something is circular (presupposes its conclusion) you should be able to easily point out where the circularity occurs. You haven't, suggesting you were just merely throwing words at me without any meaning behind them to posture.
>>11670618
If you were trying to be sincere you would be able to point out where the circularity in my argument occurred. You can't because it's not circular. You're just being a retard.

[Anonymous No.11670631]

>Your argument is circular. How? You wouldn't get it.

[Anonymous No.11670644]

>>11670626
I am able to point out, but I choose not to because from previous experience I know that when I do you will misconstrue it and then engage me into a super long debate by putting some of my ego at stake (like you're trying to do now, and even though this is an anonymous board) and the objective will be to just see who gets the last post and claim "victory".
Can you see how I came to the conclusion that isn't worth my time?
You've recognized this series of posts as a battle and you're in it for the long haul. Even if at some point I do make sense to you, you wouldn't admit it, becuase you would lose "face". It all comes back to the strong ego in your posts, which is why I said it reminds me of myself.
I mean look at your last post. The only purpose it serves is to construct this narrative, where you're some logical paragon who is smarter than everyone and unraveled this whole issue with a super basic analytic argument based on the meanings of words, and no one can challenge you and we're all just jealous. You're basically proving me right when i said that everyone thinks they are 100% logical. I mean come on dude.
Yeah I'm being overly sincere to the point of oversharing my true thoughts on 4chan internet debates, disheartening to see how its received. This will be my last post.
To humor you, your first post hinges on defining "reality" as "that which is real", so therefore you conclude that saying that reality is an illusion is a contradiction. But its circular. Your conclusion follows from how you yourself defined the word in the first place. You're basically saying "Reality is real because reality means real." Its comical, logically speaking. Obviously what people mean by OP's statement is that the observable world of phenomenon, which most refer to as "reality" is not real. That's why your argument amounts to just semantics and circular reasoning.
Now go ahead and make your response I guess, I'm not going to stick around for the fruitless "debate".

[Anonymous No.11670647]

>>11670615
Ahh so you are retarded

Thanks for clearing that up

[Anonymous No.11670648]

>>11670601
>>11670609
FUCK YOU AUTISTIC FUCKING RETARDS STFU YOU GODDAMN FUCKING RETARDS

[Anonymous No.11670649]

>>11670615
You don't have to keep being retarded though

Aquire awareness

[Anonymous No.11670681]

>>11670647
>>11670649
Ahh so you are retarded
Thanks for clearing that up
You don't have to keep being retarded though
Aquire awareness

[Anonymous No.11670683]

What is the point of supposing that "reality" isn't real? Any evidence you could find to support that is based in reality and would therefore invalidate itself.

If by "reality" you don't mean "all observable phenomenon" and instead are trying to refer to some sort of facade existing within the constraints of the known laws of the universe, then no because there isn't any evidence to support such a conclusion and doing a bunch of drugs wouldn't give you any kind of insight into something operating on that scale anyway.

[Anonymous No.11670684]

>>11670683
Ahh so you are retarded
Thanks for clearing that up
You don't have to keep being retarded though
Aquire awareness

[Anonymous No.11670692]

>>11670683
It isn't "evidence" but rather pure reasoning or perhaps personal experience that leads to this conclusion. "Evidence" implies empirical basis, which has a precondition that the world of phenomenon is real, either that or it decides that the question is unanswerable and at least hopes that the world is consistent. But of course if your worldview is based on the tacit assumption that X is real, then yeah its not a big shock nor is it any gain in knowledge to go on this logic trip and conclude that X is real.

[Anonymous No.11670764]

>>11670692
A logic based argument would be evidence, and would still be contingent on the phenomena of "reality" in order to exist. Your ability to form that argument is itself contingent on the structured reality you'd be trying to deny.

More to the point, your trying to argue the supposition of a supposition. That the possibility of an argument exists, not for an actual argument that denies reality. You can extend that to literally anything, that's why there's no purpose to it. The only way to lose that argument is for your opponent to successfully prove the negative, that no such thing is ever even theoretically possible. If you want to take such a pointlessly pedantic stance, I may as well take the pointlessly practical one "For all intents and purposes, and in all likelihood, no."

[Anonymous No.11670770]

>>11670764
This is exactly what everyone was trying to avoid

Your argument isn't worth it you don't understand a thing - - it might as well not exist

[Anonymous No.11670776]

>>11670764
You could maybe argue that any argument depends on reality as some kind of logical superstructure that governs cognition, but it would be retarded to argue that its dependent on observable phenomenon and at the same time try to deny that you're making a tacit assumption.
Whether something is "tough to prove" is retarded and unrelated. You should be concerned with truth or truth alone instead of copping out because you find shit uncomfortable and too hard to prove. Either you can prove it or you can't, end of story, the truth does not owe you concessions due to lack of ability.

[Anonymous No.11670792]

>>11670776
Proving a negative is a famous logical fallacy. It's "impossible" to prove that something is "impossible" so if all you wish to do is argue that something is technically possible, congratulations. However since that describes quite literally any argument, your effort does not accomplish anything other than restating a obvious, widely accepted fact. If you have any interest in actually arguing whether "reality" is real or not, you have to put yourself out and start making verifiable claims. My argument is simply that you or anyone else will have a very difficult time doing that for the practical reasons outlined earlier.

[Anonymous No.11670798]

>>11670792
>It's "impossible" to prove that something is "impossible"
No it's not. I can prove that it's impossible to write a finite list of all the prime numbers. Proof: If it were possible, you take all the numbers in the list, multiply them and add one.Then since none of the numbers in the list divide your number, there must be a prime number not in the list, so your list is not complete.

[Anonymous No.11670808]

>>11670798
a mathematical impossibility and a scientific impossibility aren't the same thing

[Anonymous No.11670814]

>>11670792
Proving a negative is not a logical fallacy.
> It's "impossible" to prove that something is "impossible"
I take it you aren't a mathematician? In no form of logic is it impossible to prove an impossibility by default. What the fuck are you even talking about?

[Anonymous No.11670817]

>>11670808
This is not a scientific argument, it is a metaphysical one. Science accepts as a necessary precondition that the world of phenomenon is real.
Actually, this is more accurate:
ScientISM takes as a precondition that the world of phenomenon is real, it uses this precondition to anxiously enrich scientific discoveries with metaphysical value, and to zealously guard against all non-scientism philosophical camps.
Science on the other hand decides that it doesn't even know what "real" means, to say that the world of phenomenon is "real" or "unreal" is totally inconsequential to it and is a question better left to philosophers. Whether the world is "real" or "not real", science heads out to learn about it.

[Anonymous No.11670875]

>>11670817
That's not true. While always allowing for the possibility of being wrong, science cares about what is provable. Something like "maybe reality is an illusion" is just an unfalsifiable claim and not worth considering until it's possible to prove otherwise. You can try to discuss it philosophically, but even philosophy doesn't give a whole lot of time to surface level solipsism like that.

[Anonymous No.11670884]

>>11670453
>You went full retard, something can only be the sum of its part. You can't create "consciousness" out of something that doesn't already possess it
Doesn't follow. If a+b > 1 then is a > 1?

[Anonymous No.11670891]

>>11670875
Yeah you basically just rephrased what I said in different terms more fitting to your preferred world view.

[Anonymous No.11670896]

>>11670097
No humans just fucking suck which is why everyone wants to escape reality.

[Anonymous No.11670900]

>>11670097
define reality and illusion first
then while attempting to do so delete the thread as you realize the answer to your question

[Anonymous No.11670904]

>>11670896
oh look another angsty teenager philosopher
waaah humans are the most important thing in the universe and i cant stop centering my thoughts about them!!

[Anonymous No.11670907]

>>11670904
You mean objective reality you are too stupid and petulant to deal with?

[Anonymous No.11670924]

>>11670907
waaah waaah humans this humans that!!! humans!!! s o c i e t y!!!

[Anonymous No.11670934]

>>11670518
because he's in high school

[Anonymous No.11670948]

>>11670900
kek

[Anonymous No.11670951]

>>11670900
>>r/Iamverysmart
>lolcow.jpg

[Anonymous No.11671004]

life is really weird. the older I am the more disintegrated I feel. I'm preparing for my death and think about death. I have flashbacks of a lot of sensations that I'm not sure I felt in this life.
Universe is good, but cold. I'm scared of pain the most and I'm trying to be gentle to every being, because we are to animals what we require from God. So I want their short lifes to be happy. I am this way towards humans too. But I dislike my family. Yeah I know I sound like a schizo, but I'm in a hypnagogic state melting

[Anonymous No.11671015]

>>11670097
Reality is what you can get away with.

[Anonymous No.11671019]

>>11670097
No, our perception of "reality" is the illusion. It's a very useful illusion, however, in most cases. I feel bad for schizos and other people whose illusions are all fucked up and harmful.

[Anonymous No.11671058]

>>11671004
I hope it all works out man, damn.

[Anonymous No.11671340]

>>11670097
Sometimes

[Anonymous No.11671370]

>>11671004
You won't melt into stardust alone, anon. I'm only 27 but we're in this together.

Many memories, many experiences, then back to dust.

[Anonymous No.11671594]

Infinity works both ways.
Our conciousness is a 2 dimensional projection into a third dimension substance.
Like looking at a spiral end on in two dimensions, there is no end (in the 2nd dimension)
Actual janitor here.

[Anonymous No.11671604]

>>11671594
Shit ok, fuck man crazy shit

[Anonymous No.11671619]

>>11671604
Everyone knows the janitor drops the dooby.
Take it home with ya

[Anonymous No.11671626]

>>11670097
define Reality
Define Illusion

[Anonymous No.11672003]

>>11670951
give me source to that einstein quote ;)

[Anonymous No.11672049]

>>11670097
Yes and I think we don't really exist and self/being is some sort of illusion or something.

[Anonymous No.11672126]

>>11671004
>life is really weird.
Yes. And it is important to stay comfy. Hang on in there, anon.

[Anonymous No.11672134]

>>11670097
I believe in simulation hypothesis if that's what you're asking. It's really just religion for new age zoomers though.
The Machine and The Scientist replace the Earth Mother and the Sky Father as God and Creator. An elegant deity for a more civilized age. More cynically, a cold and detached demiurge for a materialist society devoid of spiritual warmth.