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/sci/ - Science & Math

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11659187 No.11659187 [Reply] [Original]

Consciousness is dependent on quantum mechanical phenomena and cannot be simulated on anything modeled after a Turing machine. Change my mind

>> No.11659209

>>11659187

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK4ezkrTa6Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-6hosFAObI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRGzJg5A3m8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3qY5ewHAeo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Lq9ubiYus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saLnYMis8JM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiLplTc8rQY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_TjrnaMesk

>> No.11659212

>>11659187
Consciousness is a biological phenomena. It is the result of electrochemical impulses sent between neurons.

>> No.11659215

>>11659187
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

>> No.11659224

>>11659212

This is a simplification in the discussion of consciousness that does not do it justice. It is not well defined what the concept is, which makes it a point of research. There is anesthetic research to suggest that consciousness depends at least partially on quantum mechanical behavior of cell components in neurons.

>> No.11659225

>>11659215

Hopefully we'll live long enough to see ;)

>> No.11659227

>>11659187
Define consciousness

>> No.11659233

>>11659227

In a casual sense, the phenomena of being self aware of your existence. In a definition apt for scientific investigation, the sensation that anesthetics disable.

>> No.11659240

consciousness is prolly just a shit ton amount of biological "if" statements

>> No.11659247
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11659247

>>11659240

This man machine learns.

I think there is dogma in the scientific community that consciousness HAS to be able to be simulated and that neural substrates and all the behaviors contained in them HAVE to be able to be modeled on a deterministic structure like a Turing Machine. To me, this seems silly. "But muh neural networks, but muh advanced self-aware AI, but muh singularity"

>> No.11659594

>>11659187
That's what Penrose believes

>> No.11659601
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11659601

>>11659247

>> No.11659621

>>11659594
(((Penrose)))

>> No.11659623

>>11659621
Is smarter and more accomplished than you will ever be

>> No.11659625

>>11659623
maybe true, but he is also more of a kike than i will ever be

>> No.11659639

>>11659187
Wrong, Consciousness is a turing like
psuedo-stochastic meta-deterministic yet syndiophionicly relative collection of transistor-like neurons interacting in a generative adversarial network of relatively telic nodes, with the speed of light acting as a false-limit to instantaneous information computing. It's analogous to a meta-archimedian triangle as described in Whitehead's Process and Reality.

Since age 5, I've always seen this as obvious; But, I suppose not everyone is as smart as me.

>> No.11659647

>>11659639
You are autistic

>>11659594
I feel he's probably right, though his argument based on the incompleteness theorems is heavily criticized. The anesthetic research is convincing otherwise

>> No.11659654

>>11659647
I legit think Penrose and Hameroff are right and they are just ignored because what they're saying makes neuroscientists and AI researchers seethe because they figured it out when they aren't in the field.

>> No.11659674

>>11659654

Dude. Watch Hameroff's debate with Max Tegmark. Hameroff presents a convincing paper trail of evidence to microtubules as a site of quantum computation for consciousness. Tegmark has a shit-eating grin the whole debate and basically just argues "Consciousness is the way information feels when it is processed". Completely philosophical, no real physiological evidence.

The scientific community has fucked Hameroff's living legacy based on dogma. I am not saying he is 100% right in his theory, but he has definitely been done dirty in academic circles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXBfXNW6Bxo

>> No.11659684

>>11659187
/x/->

>> No.11659689
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11659689

>>11659684

Get educated on the subject, brainlet

>> No.11659708

>>11659684
This guy is a shit eating faggot moron who posts "go to x" anytime someone brings something up that he doesn't like.
>>11659689
It's best to just ignore that faggot and continue to discuss things on this board anyway

>> No.11659724
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11659724

>>11659708
Yuppers

Well I personally think it should be a bigger deal given no seriously damning criticism of the theory and recent advancements in microtubule research suggesting stable quantum effects.

Though I have not read this a lot, I also believe the theory implies a rejection of the many worlds interpretation to quantum mechanics? Fascinating stuff

>> No.11660006

>>11659594
he is wrong though, the microtubules are not small enough to be on the scale where quantum phenomena are relevant enough to affect the electrical signal.

>> No.11660162

>>11659215
>>11659212
All "truth" in observation is deterministic based on the inquiry of a conscious "knower" with "knowledge" and they are responsible for collapsing the wave function and determining reality. Unless a Turing machine can collapse the wave function in a controlled environment, OP is right.

>> No.11660973

does this imply there is a consciousness field?

>> No.11661021

>>11659187
Reality itself is dependent on QM stuff, yet much of it can be simulated on deterministic machines. It is a coin toss which side consciousness belongs to.

>> No.11661415
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11661415

>>11660006

I think this is a fair concern about the theory, and the answer to this is definitely not fully fleshed out.

Though, my understanding is that the ordered, stackable collapse of superposition in the microtubules is conjectured to be WHAT consciousness is. He sort of describes it as a lattice of microtubules where the sensation of superposition -> position travels down the lattice. He has shown with evidence that this happens at quantum frequencies that also happen to make the microtubules very electrically conductive (though, we would not call them "superconductive"). It seems like a decent argument.

>> No.11662878

>>11659227
The universe observing and learning about itself.

>> No.11663067

>>11659227
based and redpilled

>> No.11663900

>>11659227
Something does not need to be defined to have ontological reality.
We all know what consciousness is and we all know it exists. If you aren't able to understand this that's your midwit problem.

>> No.11664031

>>11663900
>ontological reality
>reality
Philosophy is 100% bullshit.

>> No.11664829

I wonder if the earth emanates a consciousness field and the quantum reception is what differentiates it.

>> No.11665032

>>11659187
Consciousness is neither quantum mechanical nor classical. Explain how invoking quantum mechanics solves the hard problem of consciousness.

>> No.11665255

>>11659187
ANYTHING can be modeled on a Turing machine. Even quantum mechanics. That's the whole point.