Physicist turned Neurobiologist has article on gender dysphoria censored after petition

[Anonymous No.11630185]

https://retractionwatch.com/2020/04/30/journal-retracts-paper-on-gender-dysphoria-after-900-critics-petition/

We all know science is biased but it's interesting to see it blatantly confirmed.

>A journal has retracted a controversial paper that questioned what it called the “existing dogma” about gender.

>The article, “A new theory of gender dysphoria incorporating the distress, social behavioral, and body-ownership networks,” was written by Stephen Gliske, a physicist-turned-neuroscientist at the University of Michigan.

>Gliske’s paper, which received a modest amount of media attention, argued for what he calls a “multisense theory” of gender identity. As he told Newsweek last December:

>This new multisense theory of gender dysphoria connects the experience of gender dysphoria with the function of the associated brain regions and networks.

>This paradigm shift—from fixed anatomical sizes to dynamic activity in brain networks—means that there may be many more options to decrease the distress experienced with gender dysphoria than we have ever realized.

>Gliske’s article was published December 2. Not long after, according to Gliske, the journal told him it would be correcting his article, which it did with the following notice on December 12:

[Anonymous No.11630192]

>>11630185
this isn't the video games subreddit anon

[Anonymous No.11630195]

>>11630185

[Anonymous No.11630284]

>>11630185
so his thought crime was suggesting there may be different treatments than gender re-assignment surgery for gender dysphoria? jebus has politics infected academia.

[Anonymous No.11630316]

>>11630185
>change.org petition

Wow, I wonder the type of mental abnormalities of the people who signed that petition lmao

[Anonymous No.11630365]

>We're the party of SCIENCE!!!!

[Anonymous No.11630756]

Does anyone have the paper?

[Anonymous No.11630829]

>>11630756
Why would you even want to read this garbage?

[Anonymous No.11630838]

>>11630829
Did you read it?

[Anonymous No.11630859]

I generally try to stay out of the circles of insanity, but every bit of news makes it harder to deny that someone stands to gain from pushing this shit. Right now the most likely suspects require believing in a cult of "Jews", believing in Satan, or assuming this is truly is a bizzaro world doomed to die.

[Anonymous No.11630885]

>>11630829
I want to see what people got so up in arms about, since the retraction seems more ideologically driven

[Anonymous No.11630893]

>>11630185
good ol' clown world
the ride never ends

[Anonymous No.11631018]

>>11630185

Physicists are well-known to pretend they know about other fields. I'm sure this guy was a conservative transphobic who thought he could mathematically prove why trans people are actually icky. I'm glad he got censored and I hope he dies in prison.

[Anonymous No.11631020]

>means that there may be many more options to decrease the distress experienced with gender dysphoria than we have ever realized

But as a tranny, I don't want them. Many medical doctors promote HRT and SRS. They want to give me what I want.

How does this guy have more authority than my doctors? Why should I take his treatments and not the ones my current doctors gives me?

This guy got a raw deal, but why is he trying to get between me and my doctor? The people persecuting him are part of a conspiracy to give me what I want. There was a first time when a man went to a doctor and asked to be turned into a woman. Somehow, trannys and our doctors convinced most of the medical world to green light our self-defined cure for a disease.

Unless you plan on getting between me and my doctor, you'd have no interest in obtaining scientific legitmacy for a treatment other than HRT and SRS. You want scientific legitmacy for other treatments so you use scientific pressure to make access to HRT and SRS harder by juxtaposing your 'more sane' treatment.

Next you'll advocate trannys take anti-psychotics that cause tardive dyskinesia;

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimozide
>The side effects include akathisia, tardive dyskinesia

Why should I suffer from tardive dyskinesia? Because your side's treatments are all filled will horrific side effects you don't even know about, because all you care about is lying that trannys are somehow the ones advocating the more extreme and dangerous treatment.

My life and access to medicine should not be decided by committee. Your emotions should not decide what I have access to.

[Anonymous No.11631030]

>>11630185
A wide study on censored science through the ages and how the facts eventually settled would be interesting. Copernicus et. al. This isn't a new or unique phenomena.

[Anonymous No.11631031]

>>11630185
The classic psychology problem of "what if the mentally ill don't want to be 'fixed'"

[Anonymous No.11631032]

>As a result, its silent thesis is that a trans person’s lived experience of their gender is in fact an illusion resulting from otherwise unrelated neurological anomalies, or worse, abnormalities. This is a weighty claim that requires robust evidence.
surely the thing that actually requires robust evidence is the opposite

[Anonymous No.11631041]

>>11631018
t. CS Shitter

Don't you have some codemonkey shit to get up to

[Anonymous No.11631056]

>>11631020
>People with Gender Dysphoria exhibit considerable and dangerous levels of stress
>Some retard considers the idea of turning them into the gender they believe they are
>Scientific community rolls with this
>Research is focused on how to better transition people
>Surgery ensues, with notable and terrible side effects
>Ones people don't like to talk about
>Someone decided to try from the opposite end
>Find a way to alleviate the stress caused by it
>Research into this is shut down and censored
>Because somehow turning people into abominations of science is somehow more humane than treating an illness in the brain
If you truly wanted logic to prevail over emotion you would never have considered transitioning as a viable treatment method.

[Anonymous No.11631059]

>>11631031
Remember the beautiful time when parents could decide to lobotomize their adult children because they had too much of a social life.

[Anonymous No.11631066]

>>11631059
Lobotomies are an archaic procedure than should have never been used, let alone normalized.

[Anonymous No.11631068]

>>11631066
different anon but I have no issue with somebody willingly recieving a lobotomy
The issue is when it's decided by psychs/family/gov

[Anonymous No.11631076]

>>11631066
How confident are you that 50 years from now they won't say that about the majority of psych drugs and be right?

[Anonymous No.11631079]

>>11631032
>It's silent thesis
Worse yet, doesn't that just imply that it's not his actual thesis that needs evidence but some "thesis" the critic assumed from reading it?

[Anonymous No.11631092]

>>11631076
I'm not. In fact there are quite a few right now that I can imagine will get the same treatment and it's on us in the now to look for better alternatives.

[Anonymous No.11631139]

>>11631020
are you insistent on a single fix or method of easement? there are more than a few people who just want to be rid of their mental anguish without going through body modification

[Anonymous No.11631143]

>>11630195
I'm disappointed on the cognitive dissonance of people these days. These same people are the ones who attend "March for Science" bullshit and mock people who deny climate change but what about transgender people? Nope, anything remotely related to the fucking science of gender dysphoria associated with them is a direct attack on the transgender community and not some advancement to treating the mental disorder other than turning dicks into vaginas. It's saddening and it's such a pathetic display of politics plaguing science. Fuck these people honestly.

[Anonymous No.11631153]

>>11631020
>choose between involuntary muscle twitching
>or
>turning their penis into an open wound that hurts and smells until the day you die
wonderful. retarded tranny logic never ceases to amaze me.

[Anonymous No.11631164]

When will people learn that they can't work in this system, the only way out is to make a separate system with extreme vetting to keep moral panicking, dishonest people who don't care about the truth out?

There has to be zero tolerance for this kind of bullshit, entire fields of study and livelihoods get destroyed by these types of people simply because it doesn't align with their worldview.

[Anonymous No.11631173]

>>11631020
>NNOOOOOOO YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO INVESTIGATE OTHER POTENTIAL CURES EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE TO CUT THEIR COCK OFF LIKE ME!!
doesn't it strike you as selfish to block other avenues to alleviate tranny symptoms when other people might benefit from them? Him investigating these doesn't mean you can't chop your dick off and pump yourself full of estrogens.

[Anonymous No.11631178]

>>11631076
or the same thing about slicing up and inverting dicks to create an open wound

[Anonymous No.11631183]

>>11631031
"It's my personality"

[Anonymous No.11631193]

>Physicist turned Neurobiologist talks about the most retarded part of psychology
why even bother with this? there is trillions of studies that implicate that a man will never be a woman and vice versa.
my guess is probably some over motivated undergrad

[Anonymous No.11631264]

>>11631020
I honestly think moving on to the euthanasia stage is our best option for trannies

[Anonymous No.11631279]

Friendly reminder that psychology/psychiatry is pseudoscience and nature animals get rid of trannies because they serve no reproductive purpose at all

[Anonymous No.11631292]

>>11631018
>>11630829
>>11630192
>didn't read the article or the paper it's reporting on

[Anonymous No.11631389]

>>11630185
"I find that the brain networks that give individuals their ownership of body parts, that influence gender typical behavior, and that are involved in chronic distress are different in individuals with and without gender dysphoria, leading to a new theory—that gender dysphoria is a sensory perception condition, an alteration in the sense of gender influenced by the reflexive behavioral responses associated with each of these networks"
I suppose you either fall into the 'this can be treated without surgery' school of thought or the 'considering this a disorder is an attack on a class of people' school of thought.

[Anonymous No.11631397]

>>11631389
>a new theory
>that gender dysphoria is a sensory perception condition
Are you meaning to suggest that it's exactly the same as other body dysmorphic disorders?
Get out of here!

[Anonymous No.11631900]

>>11631056
They're leftists
Use of logic is an crime worthy of a lynching to their kind

[Anonymous No.11631918]

The paper was retracted for scientific reasons, not ideological ones. The only travesty is that it managed to get past peer review in the first place. Also, this thread belongs to /pol/ with the other memes, none of you have a background in science anyway.

[Anonymous No.11631929]

>>11631918
>peer
>review
there's no such thing
you just pay the bribe they demand and they publish it
at no point is it ever read

[Anonymous No.11631947]

>>11631918
>The paper was retracted for scientific reasons, not ideological ones. The only travesty is that it managed to get past peer review in the first place.
How did you decide which was a travesty, between the double-blind peer review, and the editor board review ?

[Anonymous No.11631962]

>>11630284
But I’m not sick, I’m a woman!!

[Anonymous No.11631973]

>>11630859
It happens, this shift in paradigm is perfectly reasonable to happen without an outside agent. The whole world turned militarily antisemitic in the 1930s, people lost interest in autocratic governments before that, they started smoking lots of weed in the 70s, etc.

But holy shit, this political left bullshit is getting so obnoxious.

[Anonymous No.11631989]

>>11631962
Being a woman is a disorder.

[Anonymous No.11632016]

>>11631947
Well you could start by reading the actual letter in response. Everyone here (most likely coming from /pol/ with no scientific bakcground) is already jumping to conclusions without reading about what really happened.

Here is it: https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/6/ENEURO.0183-19.2019/tab-e-letters#re-gliske-2019

>The neuroscience underlying gender identity remains a controversial topic and a legitimate subject of scientific inquiry. However, Gliske (2019) contains scientific errors and unacknowledged ethical consequences. Rather than developing hypotheses for the neuroscience of gender based on a dispassionate review of the evidence, Gliske (2019) reverses the scientific method and starts with an assumption that transgender modality (Ashley, 2021) constitutes a pathology. Gliske (2019) forces a selective reading of available data to espouse harmful (now-retracted) clinical recommendations which lack any basis in clinical practice. As a result, its silent thesis is that a trans person's lived experience of their gender is in fact an illusion resulting from otherwise unrelated neurological anomalies, or worse, abnormalities. This is a weighty claim that requires robust evidence.

[Anonymous No.11632026]

>>11631947
(Continuing)
Below we outline the specific scientific issues in Gliske (2019) that we will address further in a forthcoming manuscript (in prep.). Gliske (2019):

>Misrepresents and makes claims unsupported by the cited animal and human literature.
>Neglects to acknowledge the body of literature describing the social decision-making network in humans.
>Fails to meaningfully translate or contextualize results from animal studies when they were used to make claims about their human counterparts.
>Proposes a hypothetical network (“chronic distress processing network”) that is not described elsewhere in the literature, without offering compelling evidence for its existence.
>Fails to develop a coherent theoretical model capable of making testable predictions.
>Makes predictions from the model presented which conflict with existing empirical observations, e.g., alleviation of gender dysphoria with gender-affirming intervention (Murad et al., 2010; Olson et al., 2016; Serano, 2007)
>Reveals motivated reasoning with a dissociation between the presented neurobiological evidence and the proposed behavioral-cognitive theory.

[Anonymous No.11632038]

>>11631947
>Gliske (2019) attempts to pre-empt criticism by explicitly examining only gender dysphoria; nevertheless, the implicit function of the paper is to explain the existence and “cause” of transgender people. Indeed, most of the citations consider transgender individuals rather than dysphoria as the subject of research. Importantly, Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016) and that gender dysphoria in transgender individuals is reduced or eliminated by transitioning (Murad et al., 2010; Olson et al., 2016; Serano, 2007). Literature on gender dysphoria should be used to back claims on gender dysphoria. Using literature on transgender individuals for this purpose risks conflating correlation and causation.

>Gliske (2019) demonstrates the risk inherent in human research that fails to sufficiently engage with the community under study. Starting from the assumption that transgender modalities (Ashley, 2021) are a deviation from an unexamined norm leads inevitably to the harmful idea that trans people can and should be subjected to attempts to “repair” them with conversion therapy.

>Scientific and methodological issues notwithstanding, Gliske (2019) would remain unethical and deserving of a full retraction. The now-withdrawn section on clinical implications exemplifies an approach to science unconcerned with the real-world consequences for the lives of marginalized people. Rather than pathologizing transgender modalities as exceptions to cisgender modalities, studying the neurobiology of gender requires operationalizing the existence of gender itself.

It seems like, in contrary to the expectations and reactions from the anons of the thread, the problem was about science, not about political ideology.

[Anonymous No.11632074]

>>11630185
This theory of his seems to make a lot of sense to me. I'm speaking as someone who spent being a tranny for 5 minutes

[Anonymous No.11632088]

>>11632038
>>11632026
>>11632016
That's the letter from the guy behind the change.org (!) petition, which was sent after the decision of retracting had been taken.
Who knows if the retraction decision had the same motives as him ?

But as for him, as he said and you quoted
>Scientific and methodological issues notwithstanding, Gliske (2019) would remain unethical and deserving of a full retraction.
So it is political ideology foremost and the scientific issues are secondary to him (and he feels the need to say so, understandably to "pre-empt criticism").

>>11632026
But okay let's say it was about the criticisms listed.
I ask the question again : how did you decide that those criticisms are valid and the peer review invalid ?

[Anonymous No.11632109]

>>11632088
>Who knows if the retraction decision had the same motives as him ?
Aren't we capable to apply the same reasoning to the guy who made the paper though?

>So it is political ideology foremost and the scientific issues are secondary to him (and he feels the need to say so, understandably to "pre-empt criticism").
I'd say he does not rely on his political views here, but, and as I quoted from the letter "exemplifies an approach to science unconcerned with the real-world consequences for the lives of marginalized people". In other words, you have a lot of research supporting the point of view that X treatment helps Y group of marginalized people to transition into a better life, and then this guy comes with flawed methodology trying to present methods that are seen as harmful (not by political views, but according to previous studies). I think it is undeniable that playing with the health and safety of your patients is unethical anon, not really a political statement.

>I ask the question again : how did you decide that those criticisms are valid and the peer review invalid?
You may also read: https://www.eneuro.org/content/7/2/ENEURO.0149-20.2020

[Anonymous No.11632111]

>>11632016
>>11632026
>>11632038
(Ashley, 2021), fucking time travellers

Alright, the only fair points are
>Misrepresents and makes claims unsupported by the cited animal and human literature.
>Fails to develop a coherent theoretical model capable of making testable predictions.
>Makes predictions from the model presented which conflict with existing empirical observations, e.g., alleviation of gender dysphoria with gender-affirming intervention
>Reveals motivated reasoning with a dissociation between the presented neurobiological evidence and the proposed behavioral-cognitive theory.

The rest is clearly loaded with the political part, and it would have been nicer to have the article and actually point out their flaws instead of just making broad statements.

[Anonymous No.11632120]

Is it the Jews guys? Please tell me it's the Jews. What is the endgame here? They're too smart for me to figure it out.

[Anonymous No.11632123]

>>11632111
>political part
Just because it declares it's unethical to mistreat transgender patients it does not mean it is political.
You're dismissing the parts you don't like as if they were entirely irrelevant. The guy who made the paper purposefully made a flawed study promoting unethical practices; that is not something to shrug under the carpet.

[Anonymous No.11632141]

>>11632109
>You may also read
I'm not interested in making a scientific judgement. I'm probably not qualified to be frank. I'm asking how did you make yours, because it seems you arbitrarily decided one side was right and the other wrong.

>methods that are seen as harmful (not by political views, but according to previous studies)
I suspect it is by political views. I suspect Roepke, like many others, considers that relieving dysphoria is in itself wrong, regardless of the results.
Because no, it is not unethical to propose alternative treatments to any issue, as long as they're properly controlled and evaluated. Hormone treatments and surgery have limited benefits and persistent negative effects on the health of patients and considering other treatments that may be better (not necessarily in all cases) is legitimate.
Handwaving it right away as unethical must then be a political decision.

[Anonymous No.11632351]

Shitty science should be prevented from being published.
I haven't read the paper, nor do I know enough about the field to accurately comment on it even if I had read it. There are lots of people in this thread who seem very certain that this retraction is some sort of bullshit cover-up. It's hard to believe these people are saying this because of their expertise in the field and not because of any political biases of their own.

The journal has stated that external experts were used to review and they unanimously agreed it had major flaws, so be it. Unless you know a lot about the neuroscience of gender dysphoria you can't really argue with that.

[Anonymous No.11632377]

>>11632351
Selected external experts mandated for the express purpose of finding out what's wrong with the paper, by editors under pressure from outside, seem more prone to bias to me than the double-blind peer review process.

[Anonymous No.11632430]

>>11632377
You are making a lot of assumptions there, anon.

[Anonymous No.11632475]

>>11632377
>The peer review seems more trustworthy than the reviewers to me
That's fine, but don't mistake that judgement for actual justified knowledge. You have no idea who the reviewers/editors are and know nothing about if they are biased or not.
Rather than make a judgement on the entire situation based on the largely unknown aspect that's unrelated to the science itself, it'd be better to make a judgement based on whether the published criticisms are legitimate scientific arguments:
https://www.eneuro.org/content/7/2/ENEURO.0149-20.2020#DC1
In the Extended Data they state their reasons. It's also noteworthy that the peer-reviewers are included in this process, although I'm sure you'll decide the peer-reviewers are infallible, were pressured into it, and don't genuinely believe in the retraction.

[Anonymous No.11632513]

>>11632475
Correction:
We do in fact know the identity of two of the peer reviewers (Ivanka Savic and Nancy Forger) and we have access to some comments from all three at the bottom of the article here:
https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/6/ENEURO.0183-19.2019

[Anonymous No.11632532]

>>11632475
But you haven't read the paper, so how can you judge that?

[Anonymous No.11632536]

>>11632038
ofc they will say it is about science, that doesn't mean their primary reason for attacking this study is because it went against their political preconceptions.

>>11632123
>Just because it declares it's unethical to mistreat transgender patients it does not mean it is political.
it makes the assumption that he is doing that because he is going against hrt and surgery which is nonsense. rich coming from the same people who will say his claims are unsupported, yet they do not have anything to support this.

[Anonymous No.11632540]

Is ANYONE happy with their sex reassignment surgery?

[Anonymous No.11632542]

>>11632038
ofc they will say it is about science, that doesn't mean their primary reason for attacking this study is not because it went against their political preconceptions.i wonder if they would apply the same sort of rigor to work that confirms their biases, probably not. one of the easiest ways to slip bs through the peer review process is to preach to the choir.

>>11632123
>Just because it declares it's unethical to mistreat transgender patients it does not mean it is political.
it makes the assumption that he is doing that because he is going against hrt and surgery which is nonsense. rich coming from the same people who will say his claims are unsupported, yet they do not have anything to support this.

[Anonymous No.11632564]

Seems impartial to me.

[Anonymous No.11632579]

>>11632532
>so how can you judge that?
judge what?

[Anonymous No.11632628]

>>11632430
No I'm not.

>>11632475
I'm not making a judgement at all. I didn't say anything about the quality of the paper.
I'm just telling the anons here who trust that the retraction was because of scientific reasons only, that they have no reason to assume so.

>In the Extended Data
It certainly is true that a “cause” for being transgender has not been found or identified. The author makes some interesting remarks that point in some directions that people have not gone into (as of yet) and that might be worthy of investigation. It would help fill in some of the gaps between the layers of neurobiology and reconciling hormonal, brain structural, and functional and behavioral data. Additionally, it would help elucidate other fields that have presently been understudied (e.g., link between hormones and sleep–wake cycle in trans people and the resultant effect of hormonal treatment). Likewise, a social behavioral network that is grounded in neurobiology has also not yet been examined and the question of minority stress on the individual and the individual’s biology also remains to be determined (especially including the different layers of neurobiology and neurochemistry). However, the paper is not substantial enough to warrant publication. The links drawn between at least two of the three networks are not compelling based on the small base of literature cited, especially since this literature is only of structural but not functional nature. Many of the present statements regarding functional implications are sheer conjecture. There is not enough evidence justifying this “new” theory and how it would actually advance the field.

That's less severe than I expected from their expression "major flaws".

[Anonymous No.11632639]

>>11632475
>It's also noteworthy that the peer-reviewers are included in this process
You're basing that on this :
>Decisions are customarily a result of the Reviewing Editor and the peer reviewers coming together and discussing their recommendations until a consensus is reached.
Then it's also noteworthy that you're wrong, since they changed their customary process for this case
>Upon careful consideration by the eNeuro Editorial Board, I commissioned a thorough re-review of the Gliske paper by three unbiased outside experts to ensure proper procedure for papers on sensitive subjects.

[Anonymous No.11632667]

>>11631020
He isnt trying to get between you are your doctor. He's trying to find more options for you. If you don't want them, that's okay, but someone else might.

[Anonymous No.11632675]

>>11631056
https://medium.com/@sue.donym1984/inauthentic-selves-the-modern-lgbtq-movement-is-run-by-philanthropic-astroturf-and-based-on-junk-d08eb6aa1a4b

Nah, you get financing if you side with the trannies. Academic views are for sale.

[Anonymous No.11632680]

>>11631020
Your doctors make tons of money out of trannies
>Next you'll advocate trannys take anti-psychotics that cause tardive dyskinesia;
I was thinking of hot lead.

[Anonymous No.11632696]

>>11632639
Yeah I wasn't sure whether the their use of 'peer reviewers; mentioned there were the same as the peer reviewers from before. I thought they were but yeah it's clear they're not

>>11632628
>I'm not making a judgement at all. I didn't say anything about the quality of the paper
Not accusing you of that. I was merely suggesting that any judgement on the whole situation shouldn't be based on unresolvable interpretation issues, like whether the original peer reviewers or the post-publication experts are more trustworthy.

>The links drawn between at least two of the three networks are not compelling based on the small base of literature cited, especially since this literature is only of structural but not functional nature.
>Many of the present statements regarding functional implications are sheer conjecture.
>There is not enough evidence justifying this “new” theory and how it would actually advance the field.

>That's less severe than I expected from their expression "major flaws".
Those are major flaws

[Anonymous No.11632697]

>>11630185
I saw this. It's complete bullshit that it was retracted. There is nothing wrong with the study at all and the data is valuable to science. Not once did he suggest a clinical procedure, he simply talked about the potential applications of this work which is what every theoretical study does.

If you have a problem with the paper then argue for it in letters to the journal. There is no reason to retract the paper. The anonymous re-reviewers they picked are almost certainly not scientists like the original 3 reviewers.

[Anonymous No.11632703]

>>11632639
>I commissioned a thorough re-review of the Gliske paper by three unbiased outside experts to ensure proper procedure for papers on sensitive subjects.
>outside experts
>outside

So, not cognitive neuroscientists. eNeuro confirmed for a trash magazine and not a real scientific journal. They should publish it in a better journal next time.

[Anonymous No.11632707]

>>11632703
Obviously 'outside' means not linked to the journal you brainlet

[Anonymous No.11632721]

>>11632697
No anon, they were perfectly qualified and unbiased. >>11632564
>>11632109
It seems to me that you’re implying that it is unethical to suggest a person experiencing dysphoria seek other methods of treatment. It seems to me you are saying that it’s unethical to try and prevent men from permanently mutilating/removing their genitals. Either you’re incredibly dishonest or you are a complete and utter fool. You hide under the mask of “unbiased, rational reasoning”, but in truth, you are a malicious coward and. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.11632727]

>>11630185
i really don't see what so wrong with his work here from the gist of it. there are two ways of approaching the treatment of distress. you can either attack the stressor or the neurological mechanism that finds the stressor a stressor. neither is fundamentally abusive, it is only abusive depending on what the technique is not the target.

as someone with a related condition i will explain. i find pathogens extremely stressful, so i can either put myself into circumstances where my exposure is minimal or i can do therapy for when i am in environments with exposure i don't find them as stressful. it's kinda funny that the psychiatric community does not endorse the former approach at all but only the latter with my condition. with gender dysphoria it seems to be the opposite, the go to therapy is only giving into the stressor by becoming the gender they want but never the other way around. i suspect as many have mentioned this may have to do with monetary incentives. the psychiatric community makes no cash from me staying away from pathogens, conversely they would make big bank from weekly erp sessions. likewise with hrt and surgery is much bigger bucks than what gliske proposes. so reconsidering abuse, it seems the go to is far more abusive than the alternatives which may work. in my case it did, moving out from an urban area to a rural one has done so much for my mental health. i was barely able to leave the house in the megalopolis i used to live but now i can go outside for walks, etc.

inb4 it's a conspiracy
uhuh yeah because the psychiatric community is somehow immune to cash grabs where the primary focus of researchers on the average is begging for grant money.

[Anonymous No.11632737]

>>11632727
oh yeah i also forgot to mention all the pills they prescribe me. some upwards of hundreds of bucks monthly.

[Anonymous No.11632738]

>>11632703
>>11632707
https://telefoonboek.ugent.be/en/people/802000960538
http://portal.uned.es/portal/page?_pageid=93,696653&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
https://www.rwth-aachen.de/cms/root/Die-RWTH/Einrichtungen/Organisation/Rektorat/~rdzh/Univ-Prof-Dr-rer-soc-Ute-Habel/lidx/1/
Those are the experts.

[Anonymous No.11632755]

>>11632696
>any judgement on the whole situation shouldn't be based on unresolvable interpretation issues, like whether the original peer reviewers or the post-publication experts are more trustworthy.
Yeah but that's the only way to make a judgement without being sufficiently informed on the field. Either the peer reviewers are wrong, or the experts and editors are.
If you're saying that we shouldn't judge I agree, but then don't suspend your doubts over the retraction.

[Anonymous No.11632765]

>>11632696
a lot of this looks like opinion upon inspection.
>>The links drawn between at least two of the three networks are not compelling based on the small base of literature cited, especially since this literature is only of structural but not functional nature.
why is it not compelling?
>>Many of the present statements regarding functional implications are sheer conjecture.
how so?
>>There is not enough evidence justifying this “new” theory and how it would actually advance the field.
again how so?

do they go into this anywhere?

[Anonymous No.11632777]

>>11631020
> Unless you plan on getting between me and my doctor, you'd have no interest in obtaining scientific legitimacy for a treatment other than HRT and SRS.

Did someone tell you this, or did you come up with it yourself? Because it seems like you are drawing an awfully narrow-minded and unsubstantiated conclusion; to presume that the only fathomable motive for such research is to take your treatment away from you.

[Anonymous No.11632784]

>>11632697
No anon, they were perfectly qualified and unbiased. See >>11632564
>>11632109
It seems as if you’re implying it’s unethical for a person experiencing dysphoria to seek a method of treatment beyond transitioning/HRT.

Being more concise, you are arguing that it’s unethical to try and prevent or discourage men from permanently mutilating/removing their genitals. Surely you understand why it would be valuable that we find other, less drastic treatments. You claim that it was censored/redacted solely because of methodology issues. You would have to be delusional to ignore the obvious political motives involved. Either you’re incredibly dishonest, or you are a complete and utter fool. Classifiying transistioning as a“treatment method” is disingenuous.
>I think it is undeniable that playing with the health and safety of your patients is unethical anon
I think it is undeniable that the pathologizing of gender dysphoria and subsequent labeling of transistioning as “treatment” was politically and ideologically motived in the first place. When you ignore the ethical issues inherent in transition surgical practices, you are playing with people’s health and safety.
You hide under the mask of “unbiased, rational reasoning”, but in truth, you are a malicious coward and a liar. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.11632819]

>>11630185
You just know that there's something juicy buried there if people start proclaiming heresy.
http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

[Anonymous No.11632904]

>>11630284
>>11630365
>>11631947
bruh the author himself agreed with the retraction because it was not supported by data.

>Upon initial publication of the manuscript version of this article, several questions were raised about the validity of the conclusions, particularly the author’s proposed implications for clinical treatment. The editors conducted an independent review of the article in response to these concerns and determined that any clinical or treatment recommendations were, in fact, unsupported by the cited data, and therefore are inappropriate and should be removed. The author agreed with this conclusion and the final version of the article has been edited to remove these speculations, including the removal of the entire “Implications for Clinical Practice” section.

[Anonymous No.11632920]

>>11632904
just like in court it's sometimes just easier to settle than fight it. doesn't mean he actually agrees with the editors.

[sage in all fields No.11632926]

>>11632904
>The author agreed with this conclusion and the final version of the article has been edited to remove these speculations, including the removal of the entire “Implications for Clinical Practice” section.
Sounds like the article was accepted with minor edits to me. This thread is just /pol/ making a shitshow out of nothing as usual

[Anonymous No.11632936]

>>11632926
>le /pol/ boogeyman conspiracy
oy vey

[Anonymous No.11633008]

>>11632936
I live next to a home for tards, sometimes a drooling retard shits on my lawn, is it a conspiracy for me to to call the home to come get their retard?

[Anonymous No.11633018]

inb4 he never tries to publish anything again, and writes a book about how he was censored by academia for publishing the truth about those evil trannies, then goes around getting paid 50 grand an appearance at churches and political rallies to speak about how the evil journals created trannies.

[Anonymous No.11633025]

>>11631020
You only get dykinesia if you take heavy doses for years. There are 20 year olds who die from clots because of estrogen.

[Anonymous No.11633034]

>>11633008
i'm only disputing the notion that the only time you hear grievances about sjws is from /pol/. it's not like the source of the article is daily stormsperg. so not saying that /pol/ doesn't complain about sjws, but they do have a point in doing so desu. imo sjws are a plague worse than /pol/ because at least /pol/ has no foothold in academia or society for that matter.

[Anonymous No.11633095]

Good, there is no way there is a better way to treat gender dysphoria than the current techniques that result in a 40% suicide rate.

But seriously I feel bad for all the people that will die because any research that points out the current methods aren't working is silenced.

[Anonymous No.11633148]

>>11633034
>muh SJW boogieman
only /pol/tards or people who belong there have that particular boogieman living rent free in their head.

[Anonymous No.11633193]

When will actual doctors and scientists start to fight back against the infiltration of the physical sciences by political ideologues?
It makes me physically ill when I hear people say in the same sentence that “gender is a social construct. Gender is backed by science sweatie”

[Anonymous No.11633249]

>>11633193
>When will actual doctors start to fight back
Against people who think they need doctors to be themselves ?
Never.

[Anonymous No.11633252]

>>11631020
Your argument just keeps reverting back to a slippery slope fallacy but it's necessary to look into other treatments and they are not invalid just because you feel like you want to be a woman. A lot of people who want to be a dragon would probably prefer to keep trying to become a dragon over any other treatment, but usually there are more effective ways to deal with that than then attaching wings on their back and giving them scales.

[Anonymous No.11633267]

>>11633148
>rent free
oh the pottery.

[Anonymous No.11633295]

>>11633267
>>11633008

[Anonymous No.11633325]

>>11633148
You're wack, dude

[Anonymous No.11633335]

>>11630185
F*ck, why do you guys keep discussing gender dysphoria and transgenderism? This stuff is a mind virus that people can't stop thinking about and discussing.

There's so much more interesting scientific stuff out there. You could read some ACS chemistry journals. You could watch some Numberphile videos on youtube. Even reading the newspaper is better than this. But all you care about is this gender crap.

[Anonymous No.11633341]

>>11633335
>But all you care about is this
So YOU live rent free in our heads to know that ?

[Anonymous No.11633344]

>>11633335
This gender crap is addictive to talk about.
You could pick up a math textbook, and that would be a better use of your time than shouting "LOL 40% MENTALLY ILL MUTILATION BATHROOMS SJWS SOCIAL CONSTRUCT LOL" over and over again
This is such a minor issue that most people never encounter in their lives. It's a fringe issue that affects a tiny fraction of a percent. There are other issues that are a bigger deal, such as autism, schizophrenia, which afflict more the population than gender dysphoria. Chemistry and physics are all around you, why not think about those instead?

Where I live, I've literally never seen an obvious transgender out in public or in a restroom. People in the real world don't talk about this gender stuff constantly. They never even think about it.

[Anonymous No.11633346]

>>11633344
I am tired of seeing gender threads on /sci/

[Anonymous No.11633357]

>>11631020
>They want to give me what I want
And here we have it. Not humanism. Not helping other people out. Not "making the world a better place". Not making the suffering stop. It is making money off of mentally ill people to do more and more body modifications that runs this insane asylum. It is to make another group of people to make money off of. A new niche market to exploit. And they will make all the arguments they can to make this business going, and morons will eat it up.

[Anonymous No.11633362]

>>11632016
>>11632026
>>11632038
/pol/ was wrong again.

[Anonymous No.11633375]

>>11632675
>you get financing if you side with the trannies
Imagine my shock. It is as if everything was determined by finance, not reason or truth.

[Anonymous No.11633389]

>>11633362
>the censors are articulate enough to defend their censorship
>that means they're right and tell the truth

[Anonymous No.11633391]

>>11631020
So you're against researching anything else? lol

[Anonymous No.11633397]

>>11633335
Because I hate them and they must be ideologically destroyed

[Anonymous No.11633416]

>>11633344
The autistic and schizophrenics populations are not subverting the scientific process and trying to get them to ban anything that doesn't play into their delusions. This is an organized group that is actively trying to stop any other treatments other than to transition. There are a lot of people who don't want to transition but will be pushed into it by doctors and medical staff.

[Anonymous No.11633457]

>>11633344
>Where I live, I've literally never seen an obvious transgender out in public or in a restroom.
They made up about 35% of the people in my highschool. If not trannies, then at least butch dykes and fags. It was truly sickening.

[Anonymous No.11633459]

>>11633397
honest answer, i can respect that. Why do you hate them so much?

[Anonymous No.11633472]

>>11633459
Because they force us to deny obvious reality.

[Anonymous No.11633543]

Do you people honestly believe a tiny population of transgenders somehow manages to hold all academic journals and media in stranglehold in order to control the narrative? You are living in a fantasy world where your memes are distorting your perception. It is actually quite fascinating from a psychologist point of view. None of you have even attempted to address the points brought forward here:
>>11632016
>>11632026
>>11632038
All you are doing is recycling your stale one-liner memes, parroting each other and creating an echo chamber, something you love accusing others of.

[Anonymous No.11633549]

>>11633459
I don’t hate trannies. I hate the people who enable them. Just like if this was 1950 I wouldn’t hate people who had lobotomies. I would hate the people who jammed a giant nail into their brain to damage their frontal lobe

[Anonymous No.11633556]

>>11633543
Most of the people pushing transgender ideology into science aren’t transgender

[Anonymous No.11633583]

>>11633543
>Do you people honestly believe a tiny population of transgenders somehow manages to hold all academic journals and media in stranglehold in order to control the narrative?
no, rather society is exploiting them for financial gain and making an industry out of hrt and surgery in an effort to appear as their saviors in so doing.

lets go over those claims:
>>11632016
>starts with an assumption that transgender modality (Ashley, 2021) constitutes a pathology.
is he? or is there a pathology inherent to having distress over your private parts? yeah sounds like a mental illness.
>forces a selective reading of available data to espouse harmful (now-retracted) clinical recommendations which lack any basis in clinical practice.
funny when all he is doing is showing another way to potentially manage the symptoms, the only gatekeeping here here is the witch hunt against him.
>silent thesis is that a trans person's lived experience of their gender is in fact an illusion resulting from otherwise unrelated neurological anomalies, or worse, abnormalities.
tell me how it isn't? if i think i am a dog then i'm being delusional. just because this is to do with private parts doesn't change that.

for all the pts here:
>>11632026
how does he does he do this? sounds like opinion and nothing more.

1/2

[Anonymous No.11633586]

>>11633583
continued:
>>11632038
>Gliske (2019) attempts to pre-empt criticism by explicitly examining only gender dysphoria; nevertheless, the implicit function of the paper is to explain the existence and “cause” of transgender people.
how is that not the cause? show me one tranny who isn't at odds with their biological identity. and who won't throw a fit over being "mis-gendered". so they have a lot of stress over not being born with the private parts they want.
>Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016)
right people can deal with this differently which actually proves his pt. see this is where the logic fails. he isn't sauing gdd will cause trannies, rather trannies are cuased by gdd. amazing how stupid these editors are. this pt actually supports his claim.
>>Gliske (2019) demonstrates the risk inherent in human research that fails to sufficiently engage with the community under study.
blah blah blah
> harmful idea that trans people can and should be subjected to attempts to “repair” them with conversion therapy.
here is the bias clear as they. they assume targeting the feeling of the stress is somehow harmful. look there are two ways to deal with stress. either remove the stressor (cut the dick off) or stop seeing the stressor as a stressor.

2/2

[Anonymous No.11633590]

>>11633583
continued:
>>11632038
>Gliske (2019) attempts to pre-empt criticism by explicitly examining only gender dysphoria; nevertheless, the implicit function of the paper is to explain the existence and “cause” of transgender people.
how is that not the cause? show me one tranny who isn't at odds with their biological identity. and who won't throw a fit over being "mis-gendered". so they have a lot of stress over not being born with the private parts they want.
>Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016)
right people can deal with this differently which actually proves his pt. see this is where the logic fails. he isn't sauing gdd will cause trannies, rather trannies are cuased by gdd. amazing how stupid these editors are. this pt actually supports his claim.
>>Gliske (2019) demonstrates the risk inherent in human research that fails to sufficiently engage with the community under study.
blah blah blah
> harmful idea that trans people can and should be subjected to attempts to “repair” them with conversion therapy.
here is the bias clear as day. they assume targeting the feeling of the stress is somehow harmful. look there are two ways to deal with stress. either remove the stressor (cut the dick off) or stop seeing the stressor as a stressor.

2/2

[Anonymous No.11633615]

>>11631020
>But as a tranny
false flag, no transgender person would refer to themselves as that and they would also not admit that they are mentally ill and need treatment

[Anonymous No.11633647]

>>11633583
>no, rather society is exploiting them for financial gain and making an industry out of hrt and surgery in an effort to appear as their saviors in so doing
Read up the relevant literature. HRT alone decreases suicidality of 41% to more than half. Surgery can bring it further down to the same levels of suicidality of the general population. These are extremely effective treatments we are talking about and, thus, can in no way be described as some sort of perverse money making scheme.
>or is there a pathology inherent to having distress over your private parts? yeah sounds like a mental illness
That isn't how it works. You totally missed the point of the critique and repeat the error of the author. You are starting with the assumption of pathology for no reason other than gut feelings.
>funny when all he is doing is showing another way to potentially manage the symptoms, the only gatekeeping here here is the witch hunt against him
Again, in science claims need to be supported by evidence. Proposing alternative methods of treatment without providing sound empirical or theoretical basis for these, is considered highly unethical for obvious reasons.
>tell me how it isn't? if i think i am a dog then i'm being delusional. just because this is to do with private parts doesn't change that
There are well documented genetic and endocrine factors involved in the development of gender dysphoria. You won't find any similar biological reasons for your proposed dog person, because the two situations cannot be compared. In addition, HRT and surgery are effective in alleviating GD which strongly suggests it is not just a delusion.
>how does he does he do this? sounds like opinion and nothing more
Those points all seem fair to me to point out. Can you specify what is so subjective in your view by addressing the content instead of making general statements?
1/2

[Anonymous No.11633651]

>>11633615
>false flag, no transgender person would refer to themselves as that and they would also not admit that they are mentally ill and need treatment
Have you never been to /lgbt/ ?

[Anonymous No.11633663]

>>11633647
>HRT alone decreases suicidality of 41% to more than half.
Citation needed
And please not just a correlation between people who seek help and those who suicide less

[Anonymous No.11633665]

>>11633647
>HRT alone decreases suicidality of 41% to more than half. Surgery can bring it further down to the same levels of suicidality of the general population.
how many times have these studies been replicated?
>You are starting with the assumption of pathology for no reason other than gut feelings.
so why be a tranny if not to relive a stress? like why go through all that trouble?there is no logical reason to be one other than it bugs the fuck out of you.
>Again, in science claims need to be supported by evidence.
seems like he did just that but it went against the orthodoxy so it was shut down.
>There are well documented genetic and endocrine factors involved in the development of gender dysphoria.
ofc, because the brain makes you feel a certain way because of those reasons.
>ou won't find any similar biological reasons for your proposed dog person, because the two situations cannot be compared.
wrong, it will be the same reason. there is no reason to think otherwise.
> HRT and surgery are effective in alleviating GD which strongly suggests it is not just a delusion.
actually just like praying relieves stress, doing something doesn't mean what you're doing isn't delusional.
>Can you specify what is so subjective in your view by addressing the content instead of making general statements?
all of them, it's just saying "i don't find his evidence sufficient because i don't find it sufficient." they never explain in detail why.

[Anonymous No.11633668]

>>11633647
>Proposing alternative methods of treatment without providing sound empirical or theoretical basis for these, is considered highly unethical for obvious reasons.
You mean like what psychologists do constantly?

[Anonymous No.11633671]

>>11633583
>how is that not the cause? show me one tranny who isn't at odds with their biological identity
You are jumping to conclusions. Transgenders who have undergone successful transition are not at odds with their biological identity.
>and who won't throw a fit over being "mis-gendered"
You are believing memes. Stop doing that.
>right people can deal with this differently which actually proves his pt. see this is where the logic fails. he isn't sauing gdd will cause trannies, rather trannies are cuased by gdd
I am not familiar with that citation and don't feel like responding to conjecture with more conjecture.
>blah blah blah
The author has no background in this field, so it is a very serious objection.
>here is the bias clear as day. they assume targeting the feeling of the stress is somehow harmful. look there are two ways to deal with stress. either remove the stressor (cut the dick off) or stop seeing the stressor as a stressor
This is just conversion therapy all over again.
2/2

[Anonymous No.11633678]

>>11633671
>Transgenders who have undergone successful transition are not at odds with their biological identity.
right because they got rid of the stressor. up until that point they were stressed the fuck out about it.
>You are believing memes. Stop doing that.
show me otherwise then. i'll wiat. there is a reason this is a meme. stereotypes exist for a reason. because ppl see patterns and extrapolate from them.
>I am not familiar with that citation and don't feel like responding to conjecture with more conjecture.
lol the pt is so good you can't do shit about it. his whole thesis is you can manage stressors without getting rid of it and they demonstrate just that.
>The author has no background in this field, so it is a very serious objection.
gender studies isn't a scientific study so someone coming from physics which is coming into this and smacking this dogma around is needed. too bad he backed off but his pts are spot on.
>This is just conversion therapy all over again.
so, doesn't make it inherently wrong. the pt stands you can deal with stressors in two ways. notice how erp is done on ocd patients. see: >>11632727

[Anonymous No.11633691]

>>11633671
>You are believing memes. Stop doing that.
Yeah, not like these memes are derived from irl at all right? Just a /pol/ fantasy, amirite? LMAO, how long will you stick your head into the sand to keep your unfounded worldview in tact?

[Anonymous No.11633783]

>>11633663
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03625.x
If you knew a iota of this field of science, you would have known such studies are cross-sectional by nature.
>>11633665
>how many times have these studies been replicated?
Dozens, see above.
>so why be a tranny if not to relive a stress?
To relieve gender dysphoria. Are you trying to say that any problem equals a psychiatric disorder?
>seems like he did just that but it went against the orthodoxy so it was shut down
It was shut down for lack of substantiation of his pet theory. It has been mentioned multiple times above plus the author has stated to agree with the retraction. The problem here is your unfaltering belief in some sort of weird, nefarious gender conspiracy.
>ofc, because the brain makes you feel a certain way because of those reasons
It is not as simple as that. Behavior, internal feelings and thoughts all work in highly complex interconnected multivariate ways that are poorly understood.
>wrong, it will be the same reason. there is no reason to think otherwise
I just gave you genetic factors and hormone reasons for the existence of GD. Now it is your turn to provide two biological reasons for your dog person. Needless to say they need to be scientifically valid or the comparison would fall flat.
>actually just like praying relieves stress, doing something doesn't mean what you're doing isn't delusional
Nor does it demonstrate that it is a delusion.
>all of them, it's just saying "i don't find his evidence sufficient because i don't find it sufficient." they never explain in detail why
Let us take the third point. The author cites animal studies and subsequently, applies them to the human nervous system without even mentioning this. That is a blatant flaw.
>>11633668
>You mean like what psychologists do constantly?
They are supposed to engage in evidence-based practice, but this is another topic.

[Anonymous No.11633791]

>>11630185
Anyone remember the name of that other paper on the evolutionary origin of the disparity in intelligence variance across sexes that was censored?

[Anonymous No.11633795]

>>11632926
>m-m-muh /pol/! /POL/! /POL/!
jesus christ you people are deranged

[Anonymous No.11633799]

>>11632430
no

[Anonymous No.11633809]

>>11633795
just go away, you can have as many /pol/ """science""" threads as you want, post them there.

[Anonymous No.11633818]

>>11630185
Science has shown in the past that there are psychological female characteristics to men in small quantities and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.11633836]

>>11633678
>right because they got rid of the stressor. up until that point they were stressed the fuck out about it
It is not clear to me what you are even trying to prove here.
>show me otherwise then. i'll wiat. there is a reason this is a meme. stereotypes exist for a reason. because ppl see patterns and extrapolate from them
There are passing transgender living a happy and productive life in their desired gender. But you would not identify them as such because they look cis to you. That is why stereotypes are misleading with trans people. You only notice the bad ones, because they stick out and scream hardest for trans rights. Those are the ''ma'am'' types that generally put little effort in being their new gender and set a very bad reputation for transgenders, while the nicer ones are very hard to recognize and because of passing, do not really feel part of the trans community.
>lol the pt is so good you can't do shit about it. his whole thesis is you can manage stressors without getting rid of it and they demonstrate just that
No, you cannot manage GD. It is not jsut a stressor as you are thinking, it is far more serious. Do you really think individuals go through the whole process of transition and living as opposite gender for minor reasons?
>gender studies isn't a scientific study so someone coming from physics which is coming into this and smacking this dogma around is needed. too bad he backed off but his pts are spot on
He could have prepared better by reading up the studies.
>so, doesn't make it inherently wrong. the pt stands you can deal with stressors in two ways. notice how erp is done on ocd patients
Conversion therapy does not work. They tried it 50, 60 years ago when people thought about transgenders just like you are now, as a mental disorder with delusions that can be fixed by therapy. It did not work at all. Now we have come a long way with treatments that actually do work. Proposing conversion therapy is painfully ignorant.

[Anonymous No.11633948]

>>11633836
>Conversion therapy does not work.
I can't believe you're too dense to recognize the difference between this and conversion therapy
You're conflating a sexual preference with what is categorized as a body dysmorphic disorder

[Anonymous No.11633960]

>>11630185

Political Correctness trumps Science

Sometimes reality is painful, and people try to sweep it under the rug, but the truth always prevails in the long run.

A well constructed argument should not be met with forced censorship. If you disagree, prove it. Counter-argument.

[Anonymous No.11633969]

>>11633783
>To relieve gender dysphoria. Are you trying to say that any problem equals a psychiatric disorder?
no, only if it impairs on'es life as this shit does.
>It was shut down for lack of substantiation of his pet theory.
that was asserted, i have yet to see and substantial evidence other than their opinion.
> It has been mentioned multiple times above plus the author has stated to agree with the retraction.
you know it's sometimes easier to settle in court right? seems like he realized this battle wouldn't be worth the effort against the dogma.
> It has been mentioned multiple times above plus the author has stated to agree with the retraction.
oh the pottery.
>Behavior, internal feelings and thoughts all work in highly complex interconnected multivariate ways that are poorly understood.
i was agreeing with your pt here.
>Now it is your turn to provide two biological reasons for your dog person.
why does the brain do anything? hormones, genetics, structure, etc. so furries are the same.
>Nor does it demonstrate that it is a delusion.
thinking you're something that you're not is delusion tho. also thanks for conceding your pt is moot.
>That is a blatant flaw.
flaw in authorship, not methodology. there are parallels one can draw from animals to humans, done all the time.

[Anonymous No.11633977]

>>11633836
>It is not clear to me what you are even trying to prove here.
read it again then. slowly. without the stressor being there they won't experience stress, who would've thunk? so ofc removal of the stessor relieves the stress but it's not the only way.
>There are passing transgender living a happy and productive life in their desired gender.
keyword: passing. how many of them actually pass tho on average? i don't think that many, 1 out of 10?
>No, you cannot manage GD. It is not jsut a stressor as you are thinking, it is far more serious.
so now it is a mental illness? can't even keep your model straight can you? pun intended.
>Do you really think individuals go through the whole process of transition and living as opposite gender for minor reasons?
holy shit my pt the whole time.
>He could have prepared better by reading up the studies.
that's just like your opinion ma'am.
>Conversion therapy does not work.
as this anon pted out: >>11633948
again, i will pt out to you that dealing with stressors can be done in two ways, removal or cope. in fact they prove this here:
>demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016)
in other words these individuals cope with their gd without transition or sudoku.

[Anonymous No.11633994]

>>11633783
>To relieve gender dysphoria. Are you trying to say that any problem equals a psychiatric disorder?
no, only if it impairs one's life as this shit does.
>It was shut down for lack of substantiation of his pet theory.
that was asserted, i have yet to see and substantial evidence other than their opinion.
> It has been mentioned multiple times above plus the author has stated to agree with the retraction.
you know it's sometimes easier to settle in court right? seems like he realized this battle wouldn't be worth the effort against the dogma.
>The problem here is your unfaltering belief
oh the pottery.
>Behavior, internal feelings and thoughts all work in highly complex interconnected multivariate ways that are poorly understood.
i was agreeing with your pt here.
>Now it is your turn to provide two biological reasons for your dog person.
why does the brain do anything? hormones, genetics, structure, etc. so furries are the same.
>Nor does it demonstrate that it is a delusion.
thinking you're something that you're not is delusion tho. also thanks for conceding your pt is moot.
>That is a blatant flaw.
flaw in authorship, not methodology. there are parallels one can draw from animals to humans, done all the time.

[Anonymous No.11634004]

>>11633783
>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2265.2009.03625.x
>All the studies were observational and most lacked controls.
wow it's fucking nothing. i guess according to this logic i should go drink hydroxychloroquine now.

[Anonymous No.11634008]

>>11633783
> Very low quality evidence suggests that sex reassignment that includes hormonal interventions in individuals with GID likely improves gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, sexual function and overall quality of life.
> Very low quality evidence suggests
> Very low quality evidence suggests
> Very low quality evidence suggests
even they admit this is crap. great evidence there, bud.

[Anonymous No.11634044]

>>11632016
>lived experience

And here i was thinking that science was about objective reality ....

Not when the fee fees afe of a politically objective class in your time and place i guess.

(heretic, counter-revolutionary, racist, suppressive transphobe, etc)

[Anonymous No.11634048]

>>11634008
and it gets even more retarded. for this shit low quality evidence you increase cancer risk by 75%.
https://www.breastcancer.org/risk/factors/hrt
>Combination HRT increases breast cancer risk by about 75%, even when used for only a short time. Combination HRT also increases the likelihood that the cancer may be found at a more advanced stage, as well as increasing the risk that a woman diagnosed with breast cancer will die from the disease. Breast cancer risk increases the most during the first 2 to 3 years of taking combination HRT. Higher-dose combination HRT increases breast cancer risk more than lower-dose combination HRT. Breast cancer risk goes back down to average about 2 years after you stop taking combination HRT.

>Estrogen-only HRT increases the risk of breast cancer, but only when used for more than 10 years. Estrogen-only HRT also can increase the risk of ovarian cancer.

sure is not abusive therapy over what amounts to a hunch.

[Anonymous No.11634057]

>>11633948
>I can't believe you're too dense to recognize the difference between this and conversion therapy
It is attempting to convert one's gender identity, should not be so difficult to understand.
>You're conflating a sexual preference with what is categorized as a body dysmorphic disorder
Are you serious? Do you think GD is classified as BDD? Where are you getting your information from?
>>11633969
>no, only if it impairs on'es life as this shit does
That is not sufficient to qualify for psychiatric disorder.
>that was asserted, i have yet to see and substantial evidence other than their opinion
Maybe start by reading the paper and the criticism.
>you know it's sometimes easier to settle in court right?
This is not even a legal setting.
>seems like he realized this battle wouldn't be worth the effort against the dogma
Or he simply realized his mistakes...You are seeing what you want to see.
>why does the brain do anything? hormones, genetics, structure, etc. so furries are the same
Great. Now provide two studies that prove that the furry brain has more traits that are characteristic of dogs than the usual persons.
>thinking you're something that you're not is delusion tho
Why do you think their thoughts are false?
>flaw in authorship, not methodology. there are parallels one can draw from animals to humans, done all the time
Sometimes you can indeed, but here it was about social reasoning networks or something. Utterly ridiculous to translate this to humans.

[Anonymous No.11634064]

>>11631018
>I'm glad he got censored
I see through your web of lies. Here's your (you)

[Anonymous No.11634078]

>>11634057
>Do you think GD is classified as BDD?
that is exactly what it is. just sexual tissue instead of nonsexual. it is no different than a manlet screeching about his height.
>That is not sufficient to qualify for psychiatric disorder.
then what is?
>Maybe start by reading the paper and the criticism.
i saw the highlight and they are laughable.
>This is not even a legal setting.
same logic applies.
>Or he simply realized his mistakes...You are seeing what you want to see.
nah, he knows the ramifications of what it is to challenge dogma in this day and age. damore, etc. so many examples. not worth it.
>Great. Now provide two studies that prove that the furry brain has more traits that are characteristic of dogs than the usual persons.
that is not the pt, it's that their brains are stressed out by not being a dog.
>Why do you think their thoughts are false?
because if you produce sperm you're not producing eggs.
>Utterly ridiculous to translate this to humans.
not really, animal social structures have parallels to humans quite often.

[Anonymous No.11634080]

>>11634008
and what about cvd?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190218093959.htm
The analysis showed that transwomen -- individuals assigned male sex at birth but with female gender identity who were receiving hormones as part of their transition -- had more than twice as many strokes as women (29 versus 12) and nearly twice as many strokes as men (29 versus 16). There were five times as many deep-vein clots among transwomen (73) than women (13) and 4.5 times more than men (73 versus 16). Heart attacks occurred at more than twice the rate among transwomen (30) than women (13). Transmen -- those assigned female sex at birth but who had male gender identity and received hormones -- had a more than three-fold elevation in heart-attack risk compared with women (11 versus 3).

sure is worth the:
> Very low quality evidence suggests

[Anonymous No.11634147]

>>11630185
>>11634008
>>11634080
LMAO

[Anonymous No.11634150]

>>11634004
>>11634008
Some poor studies is better than nothing. You polacks keep coming in with empty hands. A few dozen studies with sub-optimal methodology is far superior to your /pol/ memes.
>>11634048
That link is clearly meant for cis women. Thanks for making me laugh.
>that is exactly what it is. just sexual tissue instead of nonsexual. it is no different than a manlet screeching about his height
Not a single professional categorizes GD as BDD. They are vastly different disorders in every regard.
>then what is?
A clear dysfunction in behavior, emotion, and cognition that significantly impairs life.
>same logic applies
Disagree. The author had a lot to gain by defending his thesis if his position was as strong as you are implying. This way his reputation is blemished.
>nah, he knows the ramifications of what it is to challenge dogma in this day and age. damore, etc. so many examples. not worth it
You have a twisted way of looking at the world.
>that is not the pt, it's that their brains are stressed out by not being a dog
The point is that you need to bring evidence for the claim that "that their brains are stressed out by not being a dog".
>because if you produce sperm you're not producing eggs
Trans women do not even produce sperm when on HRT.
>not really, animal social structures have parallels to humans quite often
You can't just assume that. Even more so when you cite such an animal study to support a new theoretic frame. In this context it all looks fetched and the paper is unconvincing.

[Anonymous No.11634181]

>>11634080
The thing you linked is not even a published, peer-reviewed study. It is just a shitty news item that may have been wildly misquoted out of context or entirely made up. That shit may fly on /pol/, but at /sci/ we maintain higher standards.

[Anonymous No.11634190]

>>11634150
>Some poor studies is better than nothing.
so go chug fishtank cleaner full of hydroxychloroquine then.
>Not a single professional categorizes GD as BDD.
appeal to authority.
They are vastly different disorders in every regard.
nope, again just sexual tissue instead of nonsexual. it is no different than a manlet screeching about his height.
>A clear dysfunction in behavior, emotion, and cognition that significantly impairs life.
sounds like every tranny that hasn't dealt with their gdd.
> The author had a lot to gain by defending his thesis if his position was as strong as you are implying.
he could be a whimp and scared of the ramifications of going against the clergy. i don't blame him as he was already being labelled a transphobe which is tantamount to being labelled a murderer nowadays.
>This way his reputation is blemished.
less than if he went further against it.
>You have a twisted way of looking at the world.
i can see how that may appear to someone with as twisted a worldview as yours.
>The point is that you need to bring evidence for the claim that "that their brains are stressed out by not being a dog".
to your pt then, here >>11633977
>Do you really think individuals go through the whole process of transition and living as opposite gender for minor reasons?
same thing applies to the shit furries do.
>Trans women do not even produce sperm when on HRT.
but they don't produce eggs either, you the thing that females do by defitnion.
>You can't just assume that.
what that sociobiology is an entire field of study that essentially compares human sociobiology to that of animals? that's not an assumption. that's a cold hard fact.

[Anonymous No.11634197]

>>11634181
>The thing you linked is not even a published, peer-reviewed study.
>Materials provided by American Heart Association.
>It is just a shitty news item that may have been wildly misquoted out of context or entirely made up. That shit may fly on /pol/, but at /sci/ we maintain higher standards.
whatever helps you sleep at night. why don't you show that it is misquoted instead of assuming it? oh that's right because you have an unwavering faith in your dogma.

[Anonymous No.11634206]

>>11634150
>Some poor studies is better than nothing.
so go chug fishtank cleaner full of hydroxychloroquine then.
>Not a single professional categorizes GD as BDD.
appeal to authority.
>They are vastly different disorders in every regard.
nope, again just sexual tissue instead of nonsexual. it is no different than a manlet screeching about his height.
>A clear dysfunction in behavior, emotion, and cognition that significantly impairs life.
sounds like every tranny that hasn't dealt with their gdd.
> The author had a lot to gain by defending his thesis if his position was as strong as you are implying.
he could be a whimp and scared of the ramifications of going against the clergy. i don't blame him as he was already being labelled a transphobe which is tantamount to being labelled a murderer nowadays.
>This way his reputation is blemished.
less than if he went further against it.
>You have a twisted way of looking at the world.
i can see how that may appear to someone with as twisted a worldview as yours.
>The point is that you need to bring evidence for the claim that "that their brains are stressed out by not being a dog".
to your pt then, as answered here >>11633977
>Do you really think individuals go through the whole process of transition and living as opposite gender for minor reasons?
same thing applies to the shit furries do.
>Trans women do not even produce sperm when on HRT.
but they don't produce eggs either, you the thing that females do by defitnion.
>You can't just assume that.
what that sociobiology is an entire field of study that essentially compares human sociobiology to that of animals? that's not an assumption. that's a cold hard fact.

[Anonymous No.11634213]

Unreadable discourse in this thread because it's greentexting literally every single fucking clause

later homos

[Anonymous No.11634216]

>when soience contradicts your political beliefs

[Anonymous No.11634217]

>>11634197
I tried to find a link to the original Amsterdam study, but none is given. Googling the title of the study gave me your link of the sciencedaily back and no sign of the Amsterdam original on the first page of search results. Massive red flag.

[Anonymous No.11634238]

>>11634217
so the antitrans conspiracy at aha is at it again?
https://newsroom.heart.org/news/hormone-therapy-may-increase-cardiovascular-risk-during-gender-transition?preview=c4e3

[Anonymous No.11634244]

>>11634150
>Some poor studies is better than nothing.
Holy shit you're stupid

[Anonymous No.11634261]

>>11633795
Go shoot up some bleach, fag.

[Anonymous No.11634309]

>>11634206
>so go chug fishtank cleaner full of hydroxychloroquine then
Impressive defense.
>appeal to authority
Why don't you look up the reasons why GD is never classified as BDD?
>nope, again just sexual tissue instead of nonsexual
GD is about far, far more than "sexual tissue".
>it is no different than a manlet screeching about his height
No idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Aetiology, treatment and development are entirely dissimilar.
>sounds like every tranny that hasn't dealt with their gdd
It has to be inherent in the mental disorder itself, not just a comorbidity. That should have been obvious.
>he could be a whimp and scared of the ramifications of going against the clergy. i don't blame him as he was already being labelled a transphobe which is tantamount to being labelled a murderer nowadays
You are adjusting your observations to your myopic world view.
>less than if he went further against it
That would only be the case if his position was weak.
>i can see how that may appear to someone with as twisted a worldview as yours
Now you sound like a child.
>to your pt then, as answered here >>11633977
Nothing even remotely of what you say is in that post.
>same thing applies to the shit furries do
Not even close.
>but they don't produce eggs either, you the thing that females do by defitnion
This is EPIC. Women do not produce any more eggs after they are born with their 2 million eggs. You would have known this if you had paid attention to high school biology.
>what that sociobiology is an entire field of study that essentially compares human sociobiology to that of animals? that's not an assumption. that's a cold hard fact
Your sentence structure is confusing, your idea of sociobiology is off and I still see no "cold hard fact" to support your statement.

[Anonymous No.11634358]

>>11634309
>Why don't you look up the reasons why GD is never classified as BDD?
yeah because the lgbt community is perpetually butthurt with being called mentally ill. everything else is a post-rationalization.
>GD is about far, far more than "sexual tissue".
nope, then reassignment wouldn't have the effect it does. yet it is so powerful since everything else is a bell and whistle. the core is tissue appeaernce.
>No idea how you arrived at that conclusion.
see above. you know being tall isn't just about height either, right? it's about the role of being an alpha chad. but it manifests itself in bdd because they can't have that role without the tissue backing it up. much the same if you want the role of woman or dog, or female dog.
>Aetiology, treatment and development are entirely dissimilar.
based on:
> Very low quality evidence
> Very low quality evidence
> Very low quality evidence
>It has to be inherent in the mental disorder itself, not just a comorbidity. That should have been obvious.
which it is.
>You are adjusting your observations to your myopic world view.
no, i've been entirely consistent while you haven't been able to keep your model straight as shown again and again.
>That would only be the case if his position was weak.
or there is death sentence in academia for ppl who question politically correct dogma.
>Nothing even remotely of what you say is in that post.
you were saying to the post i replied to.
>Not even close.
what do you think otherkin are?

1/2

[Anonymous No.11634360]

lol, transsexuals are crazy, it's amazing to me the extent society has decided to legitimize their mental problems.

[Anonymous No.11634365]

>>11634309
>Women do not produce any more eggs after they are born with their 2 million eggs.
they still produced them, female is defined by egg production. male is defined by sperm production. hence why male seahorses are considered male despite getting pregnant, pic related.
>You would have known this if you had paid attention to high school biology.
except i did know this and unlike you i have gone much further in bio than you probably have. the only bio you seem to know deals with tranny shit.
>Your sentence structure is confusing, your idea of sociobiology is off and I still see no "cold hard fact" to support your statement.
ok, grammar nazi. look at the work of eo wilson, wd hamilton, etc. . lemme guess you never heard of them? hyperofocus on trannyshit will do this to you. anyway, all looked to animals to draw conclusions about human sociobiology. because guess what? we're all evolutionary related

2/2

[Anonymous No.11634375]

>>11634360
it's big money. transition ain't cheap. and maybe in some strange way it's a means of cleaning them out seeing all the health problems. but i guess the pro-transition side cares about trannies so much while everyone else is a mean homophobe for calling them out on their delusions.

[Anonymous No.11634388]

>>11634309
>This is EPIC. Women do not produce any more eggs after they are born with their 2 million eggs. You would have known this if you had paid attention to high school biology.
Maybe if you took more than high school biology you would understand that our knowledge of biology (trans people included) is still in its infancy
https://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20040310/women-not-born-lifetime-eggs#1

[Anonymous No.11634409]

>>11631962
A man wishing to be a w*man is akin to a healthy person swearing that they are paraplegic.

[Anonymous No.11634416]

>>11634358
>>11634365
Your reply is of such low quality, that I find it unworthy of a lengthy reply. If you have a strong background in biology as you are saying, it is not showing in your posts.
>>11634388
That was a study in mice, not humans. And why are you not linking to the original study?

[Anonymous No.11634419]

>>11634416
>That was a study in mice, not humans
This is how I know you're retarded
And why are you not linking to the original study?
I thought it would be more digestible for you and your tribe

[Anonymous No.11634438]

>>11634416
>Your reply is of such low quality, that I find it unworthy of a lengthy reply. If you have a strong background in biology as you are saying, it is not showing in your posts.
i don't think you have much of any basis to judge, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[Anonymous No.11634501]

>>11630195
By the same logic FBI publishing crime statistics is a direct attack on black people.
The argument is often made that the absurdly high suicide rate of transgenders is entirely due to the fact that they are "marginalized". Even if they are accepted by their family, they still have a lifetime attempted suicide rate of over 30%. Simply using common sense, it's pretty obvious that the suicide rate is so drastically higher than normal that there has to be more to the story than just "being marginalized". The field of transgender "science" has humiliated itself once again.

[Anonymous No.11634539]

>>11634309
>Looking for a gotcha on egg production
Stop being Ben Shapiro, he's right

[Anonymous No.11634924]

>>11630859
Unchain yourself from slavery to purpose and reason. See the flames bathing the future and roast a marshmallow.

[Anonymous No.11635131]

>>11631020
do whatever, you retarded tranny are going to kill yourself one day anyway

[Anonymous No.11635147]

>>11630185
Oh, I know there are many ways to cure gender dysphoria, but I still want to go from "him" to "her". I want to be a cute girl and feel happy fuzzies inside ^w^

[Anonymous No.11635171]

>>11630185
Same thing happens whenever there's research that could lead to a cure for homosexuality.

[Anonymous No.11635178]

>>11635171
homosexuality is not a mental disorder
trannies have a real mental disorder that often leads to them destroying their bodies and mutilating themselves, it's schizophrenic-tier delusion and imo should be treated as such
i do pity them though

[Anonymous No.11635183]

>>11635147
You'll never be a woman lol, you will always be seen as a nasty and disgusting freak

[Anonymous No.11635187]

>>11630185
>Physicist turned Neurobiologist

[Anonymous No.11635208]

>>11635178
>homosexuality is not a mental disorder
it literally is though

[Anonymous No.11635231]

>>11635187
maybe I should do the same

[Anonymous No.11635408]

>>11631020
>My life and access to medicine should not be decided by committee. Your emotions should not decide what I have access to.
Wrong
> They want to give me what I want.
We know, but this is the worst defense of something ever.

[Anonymous No.11635414]

>>11631020
>Unless you plan on getting between me and my doctor, you'd have no interest in obtaining scientific legitmacy for a treatment other than HRT and SRS
This is wrong on so many levels
In what world does adding new treatments reduce options?

[Anonymous No.11635416]

>>11630185
>99% of scientists agree
>the science is settled

[Anonymous No.11635426]

Yes, cancel culture is the height of scientific inquiry.

[Anonymous No.11635449]

>>11635183
Fuck you, I am a woman, I just have to change my apperance and I'll end up being the cutest girl ever c:

[Anonymous No.11635478]

>>11635449
Stop dreaming

YOU'RE A MENTALLY ILL AND MUTILATED MALE-FREAK FOREVER

[Anonymous No.11635481]

>>11634501
Slippery slope isn't it? The world has gone mad.

[Anonymous No.11635485]

>>11630185
>ITT: science vs reddit

[Anonymous No.11635488]

>>11635208
No it's just an early aquired and cristalized fetish.

Homosexuals are nothing but bisexuals in denial for their entire identity is built around beeing gay.

All their "I am disgusted by women and can't fuck them" is similar to how Muslims pretend eating pork makes them trow up.

[Anonymous No.11635517]

>>11631020
>My life and access to medicine should not be decided by committee

But it is whether you like it or not. Just be grateful in certain countries that committee favours the benevolent aspects of providing care. In America you are screwed unless you can pay exhorbitant fees or have insurance.

[Anonymous No.11635518]

>>11631020
>This guy got a raw deal, but why is he trying to get between me and my doctor?
He isn't
He is just suggesting an alternative, as an option.

[Anonymous No.11635665]

>>11635488
>All their "I am disgusted by women and can't fuck them" is similar to how Muslims pretend eating pork makes them trow up.
>t.
Even straight guys are disgusted by most women. Why do you think so many of us are fucking trannies?

[Anonymous No.11636006]

This thread is bloated with /pol/ memes and none of you have addressed the content of the actual critique:
>>11632016
>>11632026
>>11632038

[Anonymous No.11636189]

>>11636006
>and none of you have addressed the content of the actual critique:
but that's wrong, faggot: look at the replies to those posts.

[Anonymous No.11636210]

>>11636006
annotations or fuck off

just saying "the citations don't support x" is insufficient

[Anonymous No.11636247]

>>11636189
I did and saw that none of you have a clue on how to respond to the actual content.
>>11636210
You are supposed to reply with something like "citation P does support Q, because reason R". The author of the paper proposed a new theory, so the burden of evidence is on him. You can't just present anything without solid arguments in scientific journals.

[Anonymous No.11636252]

>>11636247
>You can't just present anything without solid arguments in scientific journals.
You do know we're talking about psychology, don't you?

[Anonymous No.11636263]

>>11636247
you're politically charged and divisive

[Anonymous No.11636278]

>>11636247
>I did and saw that none of you have a clue on how to respond to the actual content.
well just like the critique that just your opinion bro.
>"citation P does support Q, because reason R".
>"citation P does not support Q, because reason R".
oh the pottery. they don't do that at all and neither does your critique of our critique.

[Anonymous No.11636285]

>>11636247
>You can't just present anything without solid arguments in scientific journals.
meanwhile from a tranny journal in psychology, one that was posted itt no less:
>> Very low quality evidence suggests

[Anonymous No.11636302]

>>11631018
I hate trannies but guarantee this is actually what happened.
Physicists are arrogant fags that believe they can dabble in any field and figure it out instantly.

[Anonymous No.11636313]

>>11631143
>There isn't bad science where people try to force particular outcomes to fit their views.

[Anonymous No.11636318]

>>11636302
tbf tho more often than not they do.

[Anonymous No.11636332]

>>11636313
> bad science where people try to force particular outcomes to fit their views.
Exactly what that complaint is about.

[Anonymous No.11636354]

>>11630195
>beyond the numerous scientific and theoretical short-comings of this manuscript
Of course. Academia is well-known for its watertight quality control.
>the clear intent of the paper was to do harm to the transgender community
Haha
>one of the most vulnerable communities across the globe
HAHAHAHAHA
>in the basic assumption that transgender people are a deleterious deviation with a disordered network of brain regions
That's exactly what transgender people are.
>this is not merely an example of difference in scientific opinion, but a direct attack on a vulnerable community
I wonder if research on ADHD would also be considered a direct attack on ADHD patients. "Nooo, I don't want to be treated! I want to keep being unable to focus for more than 3 minutes!"

[Anonymous No.11636363]

>>11636354
>I wonder if research on ADHD would also be considered a direct attack on ADHD patients. "Nooo, I don't want to be treated! I want to keep being unable to focus for more than 3 minutes!"
p much. every other mental illness other than gender dysphoria is put through what trannies would label "conversion therapy".

[Anonymous No.11636385]

>>11630185
wow, it's almost like we have a state religion based on scientism or something

[Anonymous No.11636487]

>>11636278
>well just like the critique that just your opinion bro
Whether a paper should or should not be published in a journal inevitably involves subjective judgment. That should be obvious to anyone. Pointing out such subjectivity changes nothing and only demonstrates your desperate position as you have no real arguments of substance.
>oh the pottery. they don't do that at all and neither does your critique of our critique
None of you have even posted a real critique (other than "lol opinion" or fantastic conspiracies), because that requires actually reading, understanding and interpreting both the paper and the critique.
>>11636285
>meanwhile from a tranny journal in psychology, one that was posted itt no less:
>> Very low quality evidence suggests
All normal people would happily take low quality evidence from peer-reviewed studies over your shitty 4chan memes any day.
>>11636354
>I wonder if research on ADHD would also be considered a direct attack on ADHD patients. "Nooo, I don't want to be treated! I want to keep being unable to focus for more than 3 minutes!"
The point is that the paper was advocating for outdated GD treatments that only resulted in worse outcomes. Equally, if another theory comes along which proposes some sort of unconventional treatment for ADHD which only exacerbated the disorder, I am confident it would likewise face criticism and indeed be accused of "a direct attack on ADHD patients". People just want treatments that have demonstrated positive effects.
>p much. every other mental illness other than gender dysphoria is put through what trannies would label "conversion therapy"
Medical transition is an extremely effective treatment while anything even closely resembling conversion therapy has only been successful in harming transgenders. That is why you are seeing such backlash against "alternative" treatments for GD. Additionally, your idea of treatment of mental illness does not correspond to reality.

[Anonymous No.11636492]

>>11636006
Seeing the poor responses constructed against these points made me question my stance on trans issues. Not fucking kidding haha

[Anonymous No.11636500]

>>11630756
Learn to SciHub
>DOI: 10.1523/ENEURO.0183-19.2019

[Anonymous No.11636534]

>>11636006
>>11636247
>none of you have addressed the content of the actual critique:
It's a critique by some guy who was not part of the retraction decision.

[Anonymous No.11636580]

>>11636487
>Pointing out such subjectivity changes nothing and only demonstrates your desperate position as you have no real arguments of substance.
except their subjectivity only stems from a preconceived bias that any treatment of the psychological underpinning of distress in gd is equivalent to outdated conversion therapy. as staed throughout this thread if you bothered to actually read there are two ways to tackle distress. you can either: eliminate the stressor or cope with the stressor. these ppl don't even want to consider the possbility of coping with the stressor with gd.
>None of you have even posted a real critique
because none of what they have posted is a real critique either.
>understanding and interpreting both the paper and the critique.
i understood what they posted better than you. it's garbage. you're just so desperate to uphold your low quality evidence as dogma when in fact it's shit.
>All normal people would happily take low quality evidence from peer-reviewed studies over your shitty 4chan memes any day.
so go drink fish tank clearner solution full of chloroquine then, oh wait you do just the equivalent of that, pic related.

1/2

[Anonymous No.11636583]

>>11636487
>>11636580
>The point is that the paper was advocating for outdated GD treatments that only resulted in worse outcomes.
no it doesn't. it just advocate for changing the target of therapy as an option. as anyone with with two neurons to rub together can understand as i've said it countless times before. you can eliminate or cope with the stressor. seeing as the elimination has nothing but a hunch to go on it's not much evidence that it works.
>Medical transition is an extremely effective treatment
based on: "Very low quality evidence" lmao
>while anything even closely resembling conversion therapy has only been successful in harming transgenders.
because increase cvd and cancer risk isn't somehow harm in your head, amirite? lol
> Additionally, your idea of treatment of mental illness does not correspond to reality.
that's just you shit opinion, bro. mental illnesses like ocd, adhd, etc are treated in what could be easily seen as attempts to convert them from being that way, aka conversion therapy. there is no way around this.

[Anonymous No.11636591]

>>11636487
>>11636580
>>11636583
i'll do a 3/3 because this is pretty funny. in the hamfisted debunk of gliske they actually give evidence to his point:
>Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016)
right people can deal with this differently which actually proves his pt. see this is where the logic fails. he isn't saying gdd will cause trannies, rather trannies are cuased by gdd. amazing how stupid these editors are. this pt actually supports his claim.

[Anonymous No.11636607]

>>11636487
>>11636580
>>11636583
i'll do a 3/3 because this is pretty funny. in the hamfisted debunk of gliske they actually give evidence to his point:
>Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016)
right people can deal with this differently which actually proves his pt.

[Anonymous No.11637242]

>>11636583
>except their subjectivity only stems from a preconceived bias that any treatment of the psychological underpinning of distress in gd is equivalent to outdated conversion therapy
You are strawmanning. The argument was that ” Gliske (2019) forces a selective reading of available data to espouse harmful (now-retracted) clinical recommendations which lack any basis in clinical practice”.
>as staed throughout this thread if you bothered to actually read there are two ways to tackle distress. you can either: eliminate the stressor or cope with the stressor
GD is never described as a stressor except by you. To do so is to grossly oversimplify complex issues. Even if we did apply your two strategy approach, coping with GD has never been proven to be effective.
>these ppl don't even want to consider the possbility of coping with the stressor with gd
This is not correct. They clearly state the reason is that such treatment "conflict with existing empirical observations", there is no sign at all that they do not “want to consider the possibility of coping with the stressor with gd” as you are claiming.
> because none of what they have posted is a real critique either
Yet Glieske agreed with the critique, while you are resorting to grand conspiracies.
> i understood what they posted better than you
It doesn’t show.
>it's garbage
You forgot to support your opinion with an argument.
> you're just so desperate to uphold your low quality evidence as dogma when in fact it's shit
Studies in social science are almost invariably poor quality. Still, lacking any alternative studies, it is the best we have available and you have provided absolutely nothing. It would be sensible to carefully conclude that medical transition actually does work until there is strong reason to think otherwise.
1/3

[Anonymous No.11637248]

>>11637242
> so go drink fish tank clearner solution full of chloroquine then, oh wait you do just the equivalent of that, pic related
If you are going to insult people in a debate, at least be original, have some taste and don't recycle bad jokes.
> no it doesn't. it just advocate for changing the target of therapy as an option
The only little problem is that the author failed in providing good reasoning for such.
> as anyone with with two neurons to rub together can understand as i've said it countless times before. you can eliminate or cope with the stressor. seeing as the elimination has nothing but a hunch to go on it's not much evidence that it works
There you go again qualifying GD as a stressor. It just does not work as you think it does.
> based on: "Very low quality evidence" lmao
I already discussed this above. Feel free to cite research that points to the opposite if you like.
> because increase cvd and cancer risk isn't somehow harm in your head, amirite? Lol
Talking of low quality evidence, you are referring to a single, unpublished study that does not seem to specify the pharmacological substances utilized in HRT nor did they take the trouble to disentangle the effects of well-known confounders such as age, blood pressure, and family history of CVDs.
> that's just you shit opinion, bro. mental illnesses like ocd, adhd, etc are treated in what could be easily seen as attempts to convert them from being that way, aka conversion therapy. there is no way around this
Those mental illnesses are completely unrelated to sexual orientation and gender identity. Standard treatment of mental disorders never intentionally tries to convert the identity of patients which, in contrast, is the very purpose of conversion therapy. Nor does the usual psychotherapy plus pharmacological treatments harm the patients in a manner that can be compared to conversion therapy. Another significant difference is that conversion therapy is not based on empirical evidence.
2/3

[Anonymous No.11637252]

>>11637248
> in the hamfisted debunk of gliske they actually give evidence to his point:
>Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016)
You are completely missing the context. Here I quote a more complete fragment: “Gliske (2019) attempts to pre-empt criticism by explicitly examining only gender dysphoria; nevertheless, the implicit function of the paper is to explain the existence and “cause” of transgender people. Indeed, most of the citations consider transgender individuals rather than dysphoria as the subject of research . Importantly, Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016) and that gender dysphoria in transgender individuals is reduced or eliminated by transitioning (Murad et al., 2010; Olson et al., 2016; Serano, 2007).”
As you can see, the point is that Glieske only focuses on transgenders being the pathological exception, while ignoring the supposedly normally gendered people.
> right people can deal with this differently which actually proves his pt. see this is where the logic fails
Your logic fails in the implicit assumption that cisgenders have the same experience as transgenders.
3/3

[Anonymous No.11637279]

>>11635208
>it is because I said so

[Anonymous No.11637282]

>>11630185
>Another ignorant autistic physicist assumes his opinion is valid in a field that people devote their entire careers to without having done the slightest bit of background reading
Why are physicists so arrogant, /sci/? Why do they so often waltz into *your* field and apply the tools of physics where the aren't applicable then declare it the most important work your field has seen?

[Anonymous No.11637404]

>>11637242
>You are strawmanning.
not really, i know where their bas stems from.
>The argument was that ” Gliske (2019) forces a selective reading of available data to espouse harmful (now-retracted) clinical recommendations which lack any basis in clinical practice”.
that is their claim, i'm not gullible enough to buy it.
>GD is never described as a stressor except by you.
oh rly? lets look at the defintion then: "Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person's physical gender and the gender with which he or she identifies." in other words they are stressed the fuck out because they do not have the tissue of the sex they want.
>To do so is to grossly oversimplify complex issues.
no, it gets to the core of it.
> coping with GD has never been proven to be effective.
neither does cutting your dick off with any substantial evidence.
>"conflict with existing empirical observations",
which are based on: "Very low quality evidence" lmao. and guess what research often does have conflicting findings. you will find this all the time. some studies indicate this medication is effective, others show no significant statistical effect.
>there is no sign at all that they do not “want to consider the possibility of coping with the stressor with gd” as you are claiming.
because you aren't being honest about their biases. you know full well there is a screeching lgbt lobby that will brand you a nazi for any slight over their dogma.
>Yet Glieske agreed with the critique,
he just backs down, this is no different than settling in court. he;'s just taking theasy road because he doesn't want to be branded a transphobe. and don't act like this isn't a modern day witch hunt over people being branded that.
>It doesn’t show.
to you, because you are a braindead retard who can't be reasoned with clearly.
>You forgot to support your opinion with an argument.
well i'm just doing what you have been the entire time.

1/

[Anonymous No.11637406]

>>11637242
>It would be sensible to carefully conclude that medical transition actually does work until there is strong reason to think otherwise.
non fucking sequitur, again fish tank cleaner. go drink it if you think this.
>>11637248
>If you are going to insult people in a debate, at least be original, have some taste and don't recycle bad jokes.
you can take your faggotry tone policing somewhere else. the point stands. you are no different than the fish tank cleaner chugger.
>The only little problem is that the author failed in providing good reasoning for such.
so it is claimed. i don't buy it.
>There you go again qualifying GD as a stressor. It just does not work as you think it does.
right, people just chop their dick off because they're aren't stressed out over it at all, right? again, by defitnion gd is a stress. dysphoria is stress over not having the tissue you want. it is actually no different than any bdd except that it deals with sexual tissue. much like a manlet will screech about his height and have height dysmorphia so to does the tranny screech about their private parts not being what they want it to be.
>I already discussed this above. Feel free to cite research that points to the opposite if you like.
did it maybe occur to you that your lgbt mafia blocks any and all investigation into other therapies by labeling it all conversion therapy just like happened with gliske here so we have no evidence to the contrary? no, that's just a conspiracy even though we see it right in front of us.

2/

[Anonymous No.11637410]

>>11637248
>Talking of low quality evidence, you are referring to a single, unpublished study that does not seem to specify the pharmacological substances utilized in HRT nor did they take the trouble to disentangle the effects of well-known confounders such as age, blood pressure, and family history of CVDs.
lol, so now when the evidence is against you "low quality evidence" doesn't fly. just highlights your bias. this seems pretty decent in terms of outcomes, hrt doesn't seem to be that healthy at all.
>Those mental illnesses are completely unrelated to sexual orientation and gender identity.
so what? what makes sexuality so fucking special? nothing, being a tranny is no no different an identity than being neuroatypical with regards to any other trait. just that this has to do with sex, whoopity shit.
>Standard treatment of mental disorders never intentionally tries to convert the identity of patients which, in contrast, is the very purpose of conversion therapy.
except that being trans is not more special an identity than being someone with ocd or adhd for that matter. do you even know what an identity is?
i·den·ti·ty
/ˌīˈden(t)ədē/
noun
1.
the fact of being who or what a person or thing is.
so having ocd or adhd is part of someone's identity just the same as being a tranny with gd.
>Nor does the usual psychotherapy plus pharmacological treatments harm the patients in a manner that can be compared to conversion therapy.
are you fucking kidding me? one of the main side effects of ssris is suicidal ideation ffs, you know nothing and have not thought about this shit more than your surface level understanding.
>Another significant difference is that conversion therapy is not based on empirical evidence.
no, that just highlight how little you thought about this beyond gd.

3/

[Anonymous No.11637413]

>>11637252
>You are completely missing the context.
no i'm not. the pt is just flying over your head. but lets go over the full quote, i did earlier actually.
>the implicit function of the paper
oh so assuming bias is ok when it's against gliske, amirite? ffs, the pottery with you ppl.
>is to explain the existence and “cause” of transgender people.
yeah there is no reason to go on hrt and chop your dick off unless you're stressed about not being born the sex you wish you were. gender is tied to sex, it is just the roles of the sex. you can't be a woman unless you have the tissue of a female human. sure you can take on those roles but much like a mnalet won't be seen as an alpha chad and thus is distressed over their height, you trannies will be distressed over not having boobies.
> Indeed, most of the citations consider transgender individuals rather than dysphoria as the subject of research .
could it be that most gender studies research is horseshit? no way. nice appeal to majority and authority of cranks.
>Importantly, Gliske (2019) ignores research which demonstrates that gender-conforming, cisgender individuals experience high rates of gender dysphoria (Joel et al., 2014; Watt & Einstein, 2016)
so you don't need to go on hrt and cut your dick off, you can just cope with gd. no fucking way, gliske's pt all along.
>that gender dysphoria in transgender individuals is reduced or eliminated by transitioning (Murad et al., 2010; Olson et al., 2016; Serano, 2007).”
and cvd and cancer incidence is increased. great, chloroquinone to the rescue.
>Your logic fails in the implicit assumption that cisgenders have the same experience as transgenders.
lol nope, those "cisgenders" are just fighting their urges and converting themselves. no different than someone with ocd fighting the urge to hand wash.

4/4

[Anonymous No.11637433]

>>11637242
>>11637248
>>11637252
also her'es how you know for a fact gd is all about stress. trannies kill themselves over not getting their hrt and surgery. in fact that is one of the main arguments for why we should give it to them. but yeah it's totally not about being stressed out over having a dick instead of some meatflaps.

[Anonymous No.11637439]

>>11637242
>>11637248
>>11637252
also her'es how you know for a fact gd is all about stress. trannies kill themselves over not getting their hrt and surgery. in fact that is one of the main arguments for why we should give it to them. but yeah it's totally not about being stressed out over having a dick instead of some meatflaps.

[Anonymous No.11637448]

>>11637439
even during the kung flu, trannies whine about how they need these surgeries to save their lives.
>https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/wxekyz/transgender-surgeries-delayed-coronavirus-hospitals
>As Hospitals Prepare for COVID-19, Life-Saving Trans Surgeries Are Delayed
but please do go on about how being a tranny isn't at it's core a fuck tonne of stress with being born with the private parts they don't want.

[Anonymous No.11637562]

>>11632904
>bruh the author himself agreed with the retraction to save his career.

He jeopardized the income of a lot of kike doctors. They would have destroyed him if he didn't cave.

[Anonymous No.11637640]

>>11630185
Does anyone actually want to share the paper instead of complaining about the power of mentally ill people in democracy?

[Anonymous No.11637659]

https://www.eneuro.org/content/6/6/ENEURO.0183-19.2019

[Anonymous No.11637901]

>>11637279

[Anonymous No.11637911]

>>11634501
>By the same logic FBI publishing crime statistics is a direct attack on black people.
>systematically discriminate against a marginal population of former slaves then turn around and use the over policing statistics as ""evidence"" that the population are inferior
smdh honkey

[Anonymous No.11637913]

>>11635488
Yes, muslims are mentally ill too

[Anonymous No.11637914]

>>11637911
>Environmental determinist
Oh no no no

[Anonymous No.11638276]

>>11637911
No one made any claims of inferiority. You'd have to be over 60 years old to have experienced systemic discrimination(hint: that age demographic that age demographic doesn't commit any crime).
"Over policing" is a phrase that doesn't make much sense. A disproportionate number of police are assigned to minority neighborhoods because those places have a disproportionate amount of violent crime.

Also
>It's not black people's fault. They physically can't help themselves from committing violent crime.
okay racist

[Anonymous No.11638299]

>>11630185
Do /pol/tards even read the article? Regardless of whether you're right or wrong, not actually reading the material makes you stupid as fuck since you just got lucky. Let's read through it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6911960/
In summary:
>The bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BNST) was found to have a smaller average size in male-to-female (MtF) transgender individuals, with a size more similar to that of an average cisgender female than cisgender male.
>...MtF transgender individuals had a size more similar to their desired gender than assigned gender, these data supported the theory that distress in gender dysphoria was due to an anatomic incongruence between brain and body sex.
>For example, the BNST is a key component of the fear/distress network (Lebow and Chen, 2016; Tillman et al., 2018). Although chronic distress is a defining characteristic of gender dysphoria, the connection between the functional role of the BNST and its association with gender dysphoria appears to have received little consideration.
>After considering this hypothesis, I present a new theory of gender dysphoria, consistent with the latest neuroscience data, that stands in contrast to the common opposite brain sex theory and builds on the work relating body perception with gender dysphoria (Burke et al., 2017; Manzouri et al., 2017; Manzouri and Savic, 2019). I denote this new theory as the multisense theory of gender dysphoria. This new theory focuses on function, including sense of gender and its inputs, rather than male/female dichotomy in anatomic size and shape (the focus of the opposite brain sex theory).
(Cont)

[Anonymous No.11638300]

>>11633791
bump

[Anonymous No.11638308]

>>11638299
>The new theory is rooted in published neuroscience data related to gender dysphoria and behavioral roles of the associated neuronal substrates. Most of this information has become available within the last 20 years, with more than half of the cited references being published within the last 6 years.
>I organized available information around three key dimensions of gender dysphoria... specifically, the three dimensions were (1) chronic distress, (2) gender nonconformity, and (3) incongruence between perception of gender identity and body sex.
>The key neuronal substrate for processing distress is the central extended amygdala, which includes the BNST and central medial amygdala. The extended amygdala is implicated in psychiatric conditions including extended duration fear states such as chronic dysphoria. The BNST is also a component of several important networks, including the social behavioral network, the mesolimbic reward system, the hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis, and the sleep/wake system.
>The BNST is also part of a larger distress-processing network...

Citations removed for brevity.
(cont)

[Anonymous No.11638321]

>>11638308
The last section was dimension 1 of the multisense theory of gender dysphoria: chronic distress.
Part two, gender nonconformity:
>Most behaviors associated with being typical of a given gender are under control of the social behavioral network. Categories of behaviors typically associated with this network include parental, sexual, and aggressive behaviors...
>While the basic understanding of the network is based on animal studies, the results are thought to generalize well across mammalian species, including humans, at least to the extent that these regions are involved in the same category of behaviors.
>Postmortem studies identified the following two regions of the social behavioral network being altered in MtF transgender individuals: the third interstitial nucleus of the hypothalamus (INAH3), part of the anterior hypothalamus, and the BNST.

(cont)

[Anonymous No.11638333]

>>11638321
Part three, incongruence and body ownership:
>The involvement of the body-ownership network in gender dysphoria can best be described by first considering how this network is studied in other contexts. The network has often been examined using the rubber hand illusion, whereby an individual is made to feel ownership over a rubber hand by time-locked visual and tactile stimulation to both the observed rubber hand and the unobserved real hand. Time-locked visual and tactile stimulation have also been used to create the illusion of ownership of an entire body that is not one’s own.
>The illusion involves subconscious processing, which is closely connected with other systems. For example, causing one to feel ownership of a more obese body can cause activation of the distress network, particularly the insula and anterior cingulate cortex, whereas the illusion of being invisible can reduce subjective and objective social stress measures.
>The literature based on human data, which connects gender dysphoria with the body-ownership network and body perception, has been continually growing over the last decade.
Sources included:
>Savic and Arver (2011) recognized the involvement of body perception networks in gender dysphoria as early as 2011 and have since published a stream of articles further reinforcing its relevance. Some studies focused purely on anatomic measurements (Burke et al., 2017; Manzouri et al., 2017; Manzouri and Savic, 2019). Other studies used images of the bodies of research subjects morphed to look more like the opposite gender (Feusner et al., 2016, 2017; Burke et al., 2019). Hormonal treatments were found to reverse the observed anatomic effects and increase consistency between self-perception and actual body image (Burke et al., 2018; Kilpatrick et al., 2019).

(cont)

[Anonymous No.11638341]

>>11638333
>Changes have been observed in the body-ownership network using MRI data and cellular activation measured by MEG.
>For example, Case et al. (2017) recorded MEG from female-to-male (FtM) transgender individuals and controls during tactile stimulation to breast and hand. In the FtM transgender individuals, the evoked potential response from breast stimulation was reduced relative to hand stimulation, particularly in the intraparietal sulcus (part of the body-ownership network) and primary motor and somatosensory cortices.
>Thus, sensory perception related to body ownership and both gray and white matter in the body-ownership network (particularly the anterior insula, intraparietal sulcus, and superior parietal lobule) are directly linked with transgender individuals.
End of part three.
>I next list additional information about gender dysphoria, which should be considered when evaluating hypotheses regarding its cause.
>Gender dysphoria is a separate construct than just being gender atypical, and gender-atypical individuals do not necessarily experience significant distress or a decreased ownership of their assigned gender.
>Additionally, gender dysphoria in younger children has been shown to resolve before puberty without treatment—with some estimates of a resolution rate between 55% and 80%.
>Common conditions comorbid with gender dysphoria include autism as well as other factors typically ascribed to psychosocial factors, specifically anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and suicide.
>Treatment for gender dysphoria currently involves gender reassignment... Treatments are successful at accomplishing the gender reassignment, but outcome measures directly related to distress or body ownership have not typically been considered or reported in the past.
>However, two recent publications did consider perception of body ownership, but did not specifically consider distress. They found that hormones... increase own-body self-congruent rates.

(cont)

[Anonymous No.11638347]

>>11638341
>Previously published data support my hypothesized direct connection among the three specified dimensions of gender dysphoria and the functional roles of the implicated neuronal substrates and networks.
>Published data DO NOT SUFFICIENTLY ADDRESS CAUSALITY BETWEEN GENDER DYSPHORIA AND ALTERATION IN THESE THREE NETWORKS. IT IS POSSIBLE that the changes in all of these networks are SECONDARY to gender dysphoria, a concept claimed in previous literature for the body-ownership network. HOWEVER, the data ALSO allow the following alternate INTERPRETATION: that changes in these networks are causal to the experience of chronic distress, gender atypical behavior, and incongruence between perceived gender identity and assigned gender.

(cont)

[Anonymous No.11638349]

>tfw the village retard keeps spamming greentext

[Anonymous No.11638352]

>>11638347
>The multisense theory proposes that gender dysphoria is not merely due to static changes in anatomy, as in the previous opposite brain sex theory, but instead includes dynamic activity on interacting, functional networks. This dynamic aspect can explain the distinctness of gender dysphoria from being gender atypical, accounts for the variety of onset ages and both persistent and desistant cases, and is still consistent with the anatomic findings.
>The multisense theory is also consistent with recent meta-analyses (Smith et al., 2015; Guillamon et al., 2016; Altinay and Anand, 2019), as follows: the data presented show that the brains of transgender individuals are not simply altered along a male/female dimension to be more like their desired gender, even in studies that controlled for sexual orientation. Thus, overall, the available published data are consistent with the multisense theory of gender dysphoria.
>Another modification was needed when in vivo imaging data later demonstrated that brains of transgender individuals also have unique differences relative to cisgender individuals that are not fully explained by altered cerebral sexual differentiation, even when controlling for sexual orientation.
>The multisense theory, however, does not preclude that some anatomical changes associated with gender dysphoria may appear as atypical cerebral sexual dimorphism nor does it preclude involvement of sex hormones; the multisense theory interprets these changes based on the functional implications.

(cont)

[Anonymous No.11638357]

Uh oh. This thread was found by the tranny discord.

[Anonymous No.11638359]

>>11638352
One might argue that the general success of gender identity affirmation treatments for gender dysphoria supports only theories based on a brain/body sex incongruence. However, the argument depends on the mechanisms of how treatments affect symptoms, which is currently unknown. Both males and female brains need estrogen and testosterone. Changes in these hormones could potentially affect the body-ownership, social behavioral, and/or distress networks.
>In both FtM and MtF individuals, hormone treatment increased own-body self-congruence rates (although no surgical alterations were yet performed), and it also resulted in cortical thickness returning to be more like that of individuals without gender dysphoria
>Thus, the partial efficacy of current treatments may be due, in part, to the hormones indirectly influencing the body-ownership, distress, and/or social behavioral networks.
>...The multisense theory can also help to facilitate future research separating out predisposing, precipitating, and perpetuating factors of gender dysphoria. For example, an increase of distress, due to internal or external factors could potentially cause an atypical child with a predisposition for gender dysphoria to develop the condition, or, alternately, cause an individual to have persistent gender dysphoria when it otherwise would have resolved.

[Anonymous No.11638380]

>>11638359
These are the most important bits from the paper. Essentially, the author proposes a theory (multisense theory of gender dysphoria) that gender dysphoria is linked in some way to the following:
>Chronic distress, gender nonconformity, and incongruence and body ownership
Then suggests that chronic distress dimension could, in fact, be a cause gender dysphoria based on current evidence. The author acknowledges that this theory could be incorrect and is only partially backed by current data, but suggests that future data should be oriented to test this theory. He also suggests that HRT's partial effectiveness could be attributed to helping ease the third dimension of gender dysphoria: incongruence and body ownership. This would imply that the author believes HRT does not address the root cause of gender dysphoria, but instead eases one of the symptoms.
It is in no way hostile to the transgender community and is well written. It should not have been taken down in my opinion.

And remember: if you want to actually argue about something, at least fucking skim over the paper instead of acting like a pseud.

[Anonymous No.11638507]

>>11630195
>one of the most vulnerable communities across the globe
Just how much of an ignorant, spoiled first world brat faggot do you need to be to say something like this?
Starving venezuelans and tibetians getting genocided by the chinese goverment arent the most vulnerable communities, nope, its the mentally ill massively priviledged first worlder trannies!

[Anonymous No.11638516]

God damn this board is autistic

[Anonymous No.11638540]

>>11630185
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

[Anonymous No.11639244]

>>11637404
>>not really, i know where their bas stems from
Classy opening with a cheap ad hominem.
>that is their claim, i'm not gullible enough to buy it
Of course not, you are a genius that knows far more of the field than the experts.
>in other words they are stressed the fuck out because they do not have the tissue of the sex they want
(1) You dumb fuck don't even know what a stressor is. Hint: it requires an external stimulus and it is the defining aspect of a stressor. There is no external stimulus generating stress and therefore you can’t legitimately speak of a stressor. That is why nobody except you talks about gender dysphoria (GD) as being a stressor as it is flat out wrong do so. I suspect you like to refer to GD as a stressor because it gives the false impression that it is relatively easy to cope with like an ordinary stressor. (2) In addition, you may want to look up the definition of gender dysphoria at Wikipedia in order to not embarrass yourself in the future. You seem to believe that GD primarily involves physical (“tissue”) issues, but there you can read that GD comprises more than anatomical aspects. You are grossly distorting and misconstruing well-established definitions of both “stressors” and “GD” in order to fallaciously enhance your arguments.
1/7

[Anonymous No.11639250]

>>11639244
>neither does cutting your dick off with any substantial evidence
I am going to assume you are referring to sex reassignment surgery here which in fact is very beneficial:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets
“Pooling across studies shows that after sex reassignment (Bottom Surgery), 80% of individuals with GID reported significant improvement in gender dysphoria (95% CI = 68–89%; 8 studies; I2 = 82%); 78% reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms (95% CI = 56–94%; 7 studies; I2 = 86%); 80% reported significant improvement in quality of life (95% CI = 72–88%; 16 studies; I2 = 78%); and 72% reported significant improvement in sexual function (95% CI = 60–81%; 15 studies; I2 = 78%) “
>which are based on: "Very low quality evidence" lmao. and guess what research often does have conflicting findings
Why are you talking about conflicting outcomes all of a sudden? There are no mixed findings in studies on GD treatment, they are all consistent in finding positive outcomes for HRT: “We systematically reviewed the literature to determine the benefits of hormonal therapies given to individuals with GID as a part of sex reassignment. We found 28 studies with fairly long follow-up duration that demonstrated improvements in gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, lower suicide rates, higher sexual satisfaction and, overall, improvement in the quality of life”
>>because you aren't being honest about their biases
Have you ever considered that you may carry a bias yourself?
2/7

[Anonymous No.11639251]

>>11639250
>you know full well there is a screeching lgbt lobby that will brand you a nazi for any slight over their dogma
What world are you living on? Do you ever go outside? Homophobia and transphobia are extremely common. LGBT people and particularly transgenders face violence and discrimination at a far higher rate than the general population. Trans people form the last population of whom discriminating jokes are still broadly accepted and in certain US states “gay panic” defense is even a valid legal defense for murder. Does this numerically small and vulnerable group appear to you as one that has powerful and influential lobby with far-reaching tentacles manipulating all scientists in the scientific peer review process? These people cannot even protect themselves, yet they somehow are pulling all strings and controlling the academic narrative? Preposterous.
>he just backs down, this is no different than settling in court. he;'s just taking theasy road because he doesn't want to be branded a transphobe. and don't act like this isn't a modern day witch hunt over people being branded that
This is zany conspiracy nonsense.
>to you, because you are a braindead retard who can't be reasoned with clearly
Classic, coming from a person that can’t be bothered typing capital letters and is living in an alternative reality created by memes.
>non fucking sequitur
Are you daft? The research is consistently showing strong positive effects.
>you can take your faggotry tone policing somewhere else. the point stands. you are no different than the fish tank cleaner chugger
Do you not realize that such statements don’t help your position?
3/7

[Anonymous No.11639257]

>>11639251
>right, people just chop their dick off because they're aren't stressed out over it at all, right? again, by defitnion gd is a stress. dysphoria is stress over not having the tissue you want. it is actually no different than any bdd except that it deals with sexual tissue. much like a manlet will screech about his height and have height dysmorphia so to does the tranny screech about their private parts not being what they want it to be.
See (1) and (2). Ah, here we have the obsession with stress and your misunderstanding of GD once again. I am not going to repeat in depth how you fail to grasp the meaning of these two phenomena. (3) And, once more, you bring up BDD again, because you think GD is some sort of variance on the theme of BDD. That is not the case, there is no evidence of it at all. If you would read some introductions on both GD and BDD, you would be aware of the massive differences and little overlap between these two groups. GD and BDD each have their own unique and distinct paths of aetiology, development, symptoms and treatment. Applying this to your manlet and tranny comparison, it follows the causes are wildly different and for the two groups we can conclude that the development trajectories, the symptoms, daily life and clinically most important, treatment will have practically nothing in common with each other. Scientists love to structure phenomena in compact groups and they would have categorized GD and BDD in the same group together if there was good reason to do so. There just are too few similarities and too many differences to justify the decision to throw the two together. It makes no sense to classify GD as a manifestation of BDD unless you are going to reject the massive body of relevant scientific literature.
4/7

[Anonymous No.11639259]

>>11639257
>did it maybe occur to you that your lgbt mafia blocks any and all investigation into other therapies by labeling it all conversion therapy just like happened with gliske here so we have no evidence to the contrary?
No, such a malevolent scheme did not enter my mind. After all, we can still easily access Glieske’s detracted paper, the critique is open to read to all and Gliske himself conceded. This all seems transparent to me and I am not observing any kind of “mafia blocks” on any studies.
>lol, so now when the evidence is against you "low quality evidence" doesn't fly
Your single study does not hold a candle to a peer-reviewed meta-review of 28 distinct studies. Are you not familiar with the golden standard of replication?
>this seems pretty decent in terms of outcomes, hrt doesn't seem to be that healthy at all
This is what the report has to say: “The study was not designed to tease out the mechanism behind the increased risk. The researchers caution that their study was based solely on a review of medical records and could not account for risk factors such as smoking, psychosocial stressors, dietary and exercise habits”. Modern experts in the area of transgender HRT find no serious health risks at all. Will Powers has treated 1500 trans patients over 5 years with a total of three mild adverse events.
>so what? what makes sexuality so fucking special?
It is an essential part of a person’s identity.
>nothing, being a tranny is no no different an identity than being neuroatypical with regards to any other trait
Being trans is vastly more relevant for identity than a mental disorder such as OCD or social anxiety.
5/7

[Anonymous No.11639264]

>>11639259
>except that being trans is not more special an identity than being someone with ocd or adhd for that matter
The opposite is true: being trans is very special to identity. Gender identity in particular is special for transgenders; this should not be very surprising when thinking of the term “gender identity”.
>are you fucking kidding me? one of the main side effects of ssris is suicidal ideation ffs
I am aware of these side effects. SSRI’s have their shortcomings, but I do not believe SSRI’s approach the level of distress caused by conversion therapy.
>but lets go over the full quote, i did earlier actually
And you proceed with missing the critical first sentence of the paragraph, which just so happens to reinforce your subsequent argument. Nice try.
>yeah there is no reason to go on hrt and chop your dick off unless you're stressed about not being born the sex you wish you were. gender is tied to sex, it is just the roles of the sex. you can't be a woman unless you have the tissue of a female human
See (1) and (2). That is not at all how gender is defined. Don’t make me spoonfeed you and link to Wikipedia. Either intentionally misrepresenting and perverting terminology for your own gain is your favorite debating tactic or you are blissfully ignorant.
6/7

[Anonymous No.11639267]

>>11639264
>sure you can take on those roles but much like a mnalet won't be seen as an alpha chad and thus is distressed over their height, you trannies will be distressed over not having boobies
See (3).
>could it be that most gender studies research is horseshit?
I find it more likely that you do not like the results of such studies and therefore choose to disregard them.
>so you don't need to go on hrt and cut your dick off, you can just cope with gd. no fucking way, gliske's pt all along
If you could prove that cis- and transgenders have an identical experience of GD, I guess you could be right. I tried looking up the citations for this interesting statement of cis people experiencing GD, but unfortunately the Watt & Einstein one seems to be an inaccessible book chapter.
>and cvd and cancer incidence is increased
The risks of estrogens have been overstated in the past when studies were conducted with synthetic estrogens that increased cvd. Now that bio-identical hormones are being used, adverse events are extremely rare.
>lol nope, those "cisgenders" are just fighting their urges and converting themselves. no different than someone with ocd fighting the urge to hand wash
That is made-up nonsense. You can’t just automatically assume that GD is always invalid. Such notions are the reason the paper was retracted.
>>11637439
>also her'es how you know for a fact gd is all about stress
See (1)
>>11637448
>even during the kung flu, trannies whine about how they need these surgeries to save their lives
These surgical interventions do indeed reduce suicidality substantially and improve quality of life (see the Sweden study above), so by definition they do in fact save lives. Transgenders have as much right to public health care as obese boomers unless you view trans people as inferior beings, which would not surprise me.
7/7

[Anonymous No.11639271]

>>11636354
>I wonder if research on ADHD would also be considered a direct attack on ADHD patients.
You're making a joke but realistically if you told ADHD patients there was a cure but they wouldn't be able to get adderall anymore, most would fight it

[Anonymous No.11639733]

>>11639267
>unless you view trans people as inferior beings, which would not surprise me

In the eyes of a rational person, a self-mutilated mentally deranged individual can only be seen as an inferior.

[Anonymous No.11639736]

>>11639267
>You can’t just automatically assume that GD is always invalid.

It is a delusion, therefore an always invalid.

[Anonymous No.11639747]

Science promoting toxic or hateful ideas belongs in the garbage bin of history where eugenics and nazism lie.

[Anonymous No.11639751]

>>11639267
>These surgical interventions do indeed reduce suicidality substantially and improve quality of life (see the Sweden study above)

Even if we assume that some these the individuals aren't just deluding themselves further by reporting an improvement in their quality of life, a moral state can't finance the perverted and self destructive fantasies of the insane.

[Anonymous No.11639770]

>>11639267
>>could it be that most gender studies research is horseshit?
>I find it more likely that you do not like the results of such studies and therefore choose to disregard them.

Gender in itself is a nonsensical notion outside linguistics. The conclusion of a automatically flawed field cannot be applied to real live and therefore hold little value.

[Anonymous No.11639786]

>>11639264
>being trans is very special to identity. Gender identity in particular is special for transgenders; this should not be very surprising when thinking of the term “gender identity”.

Indeed the insane have always found ways to congregate and push themselves further in their delusions. What is amusing when it come to flat earthers becomes disturbing and self destructive when it comes to the transexuals.

[Anonymous No.11639822]

>>11639250
>I am going to assume you are referring to sex reassignment surgery here which in fact is very beneficial:
>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets
>“Pooling across studies shows that after sex reassignment (Bottom Surgery), 80% of individuals with GID reported significant improvement in gender dysphoria (95% CI = 68–89%; 8 studies; I2 = 82%); 78% reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms (95% CI = 56–94%; 7 studies; I2 = 86%); 80% reported significant improvement in quality of life (95% CI = 72–88%; 16 studies; I2 = 78%); and 72% reported significant improvement in sexual function (95% CI = 60–81%; 15 studies; I2 = 78%) “
Reminds me of the quadri amputated saying that it helped him with his alcoholism.

Of course the pain and suffering from the mutilation will ground them in reality.

[Anonymous No.11639847]

Serious questions here:

>Was the journal reputable to begin with?
>Was the paper scientifically sound?

The answer to both questions can't be yes, otherwise the retraction never would have been done.

[Anonymous No.11639855]

>>11630185
>democracy in science
oh my fucking g-d

[Anonymous No.11639863]

>>11630185
You mean the magic of peer review and the scientific method didn't stop this? Makes you wonder how much bias effects other scientific findings, such as evolution and complete rejection of God as a possible designer.
>"hurr durr shitty designer lol"
>What's your point?
>"i-i guess i don't have one"
>Kill yourself, idiot

[Anonymous No.11639878]

>>11630185
You mean the magic of peer review and the scientific method didn't stop this? Makes you wonder how much bias affects other scientific findings, such as evolution and complete rejection of God as a possible designer.
>"hurr durr shitty designer lol"
>What's your point?
>"i-i guess i don't have one"
>Kill yourself, idiot

[Anonymous No.11639885]

>>11639855
>g-d
You're either
>disrespecting someone you claim doesn't exist
or
>you think causing me to say "god" in vain somehow absolves you from having committed a sin
Either way, kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.11639893]

>>11630195
>one of the most vulnerable communities across the globe
I'm a Venezuelan and that made me laugh. Hope those guys have to live extreme situations on their lives to truly understand hardship. Bunch of hedonistic and weak willede faggots.

[Anonymous No.11639921]

>>11631020
Master tier bait, look at this man you retarded brainlet schizos, this is how you do it.

[Anonymous No.11639939]

>>11639244
i'm gonna cut through a lot of this bs to get to the core because me trying to discourage you from cutting your dick off and avoiding cvd and cancer sin't worth my time.
>Of course not, you are a genius that knows far more of the field than the experts.
well when your experts are gender studies brainlets you need someone on 4chan to explain things to you logically.
>it requires an external stimulus and it is the defining aspect of a stressor.
notice how people get stressed out over getting cancer. you throwing a shitfling and cutting your dick off is much the same. why cut it off unless it bothers you? oh that's right because it bothers the fuck out of you.
>That is why nobody except you talks about gender dysphoria (GD)
so either your experts are retarded or the lgbt muzzles them into the conclusions you want which is to change your tissues morphology. but yeah pls keep on telling me how you're not upset over the tissue you have while trying so hard to change it.
>I suspect you like to refer to GD as a stressor because it gives the false impression that it is relatively easy to cope with like an ordinary stressor.
ppl can embrace stressors, even actually stressful shit like getting cancer.
>but there you can read that GD comprises more than anatomical aspects.
but the core of it has to do with tissue, hence why hrt and surgery are so effective. because that is just changing tissue and eliminating the stressor. so i'm not saying there aren't bells and whistles attached to it but your role stems from the tissue you have. hence the parallel trannies have with manlets with height dysmorphia. manlets want so desperately to be chad but they can't be because their body (tissue) is well under 6ft. trannies are the same, they want to be a woman but that requires certain tissue. so hrt and surgery.

[Anonymous No.11639941]

>>11639250
>I am going to assume you are referring to sex reassignment surgery here which in fact is very beneficial:
because it eliminates the stressor by altering tissue structure. this just supports my pt perfectly. i was just asking you to show some good evidence for it.

>Have you ever considered that you may carry a bias yourself?
everyone carries a bias.

>>11639251
>What world are you living on?
one where girls like lindsay shepard are harassed off of campus for showing a clip of jordan peterson in class during a lecture where the topic was relevant.
>Do you ever go outside?
and see constant state run gau parades where they shut entire city blocks down. yeah this society is sure not accommodating to you queers at all. lol you're delusional.
>powerful and influential lobby with far-reaching tentacles manipulating all scientists in the scientific peer review process?
it's not a conspiracy, it's just that the label of transphobe will get someone kicked out of academia.
> These people cannot even protect themselves,
the number of laws designed specifically for their protection says otherwise. so again you're delusional much like you are about your dick you want to cut off not stressing you out.
> yet they somehow are pulling all strings and controlling the academic narrative? Preposterous.
again the label of transphobe is like a crucifixion in academia and work.

[Anonymous No.11639948]

>>11630195

You can't make this shit up... my scientific soul has been shaken. Ideology before truth. Lies before science. The downfall of western civilization.

[Anonymous No.11639951]

>>11639257
>See (1) and (2).
and these were addressed.
> (3) And, once more, you bring up BDD again, because you think GD is some sort of variance on the theme of BDD. That is not the case, there is no evidence of it at all.
except the fact the stress is over having a dick and male body and the treatment is directly cutting it off and making the body more feminine. but please do go on how there isn't evidence this is just sexual bdd.
>you would be aware of the massive differences and little overlap between these two groups.
only if your analysis was shit.
>GD and BDD each have their own unique and distinct paths of aetiology, development, symptoms and treatment.
the only unique thing is gd is sexual bdd. not very unique unless you're delusional and put sexuality as some special thing which it really isn't.
>Applying this to your manlet and tranny comparison, it follows the causes are wildly different and for the two groups we can conclude that the development trajectories, the symptoms, daily life and clinically most important, treatment will have practically nothing in common with each other.
manlets get height surgery. trannies cut their dicks off. both are doing things to eliminate what stresses them out.
> There just are too few similarities and too many differences to justify the decision to throw the two together.
only if you're delusional.
>It makes no sense to classify GD as a manifestation of BDD unless you are going to reject the massive body of relevant scientific literature.
all literature points to them being the same, they just don't make the logical conclusion for some reason when it is so easily made that some weirdo on 4chan can do it without much difficulty but you can't even show how they are wrong just say some stupid canned response about "aetiology differs hurr durr" without showing anything. .

[Anonymous No.11639954]

>>11639259
>No, such a malevolent scheme did not enter my mind.
well your mind clearly is stuck in a box of canned responses and doesn't process much.
>Gliske himself conceded.
and there can be other reasons than him thinking he's wrong as explained.
>This all seems transparent to me and I am not observing any kind of “mafia blocks” on any studies.
because you're willfully blind to it.
>Your single study does not hold a candle to a peer-reviewed meta-review of 28 distinct studies.
a single large scale study can be more informative than 28 shit tiny poor quality evidence study.
>Are you not familiar with the golden standard of replication?
ofc, and there are other studies that seem to indicate this.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30073551
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.119.13080
you can do your own research but i suspect cutting your dick off is more important to you than dying. hence why it's called "life saving surgery". but please do go on how you're not stressed out over having a dick.
>Modern experts in the area of transgender HRT find no serious health risks at all.
doesn't mean they aren't there. these treatments are new and there will be some time before the evidence is accumulated.

[Anonymous No.11639958]

>>11639259
>Will Powers has treated 1500 trans patients over 5 years with a total of three mild adverse events.
so a businessman will try to minimize what would hurt his business. got it. love your naivety.
>It is an essential part of a person’s identity.
so are other aspects of ones identity. like being a scientist or engineer. in fact most normal people find their work more integral to their identity than sexuality. some nationality, some city they were born in, etc. sexuality is no more special.
>Being trans is vastly more relevant for identity than a mental disorder such as OCD or social anxiety.
to you. people with ocd and anxiety may find that to them them being neuro-atypical is most important. in fact many autists seem to think their autism is the most important part of their identity. so you can't make this claim just because to you cutting your dick off is the most important part of your identity.

[Anonymous No.11639960]

>>11639264
>The opposite is true: being trans is very special to identity. Gender identity in particular is special for transgenders; this should not be very surprising when thinking of the term “gender identity”.
sure to a tranny being a tranny is the biggest thing in life ok. but to an ocd being ocd may be. sexuality isn't so special just because it is special in your head.
>but I do not believe SSRI’s approach the level of distress caused by conversion therapy.
hard to say one way or another. i will say tho erp is a kind of conversion therapy and can be very stressful but rewarding.
>See (1) and (2).
trash pts.
>That is not at all how gender is defined. Don’t make me spoonfeed you and link to Wikipedia.
i'll get it myself. "Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity." so like tissue and roles that tissue enables you to do.
>Either intentionally misrepresenting and perverting terminology for your own gain is your favorite debating tactic or you are blissfully ignorant.
i'm just being more honest and critical about what we're talking about than you.

>>11639267
i'm just tired of this. but i think i got to the pts and until you show anything that really gets at the core of what i'm saying i won't bother.

[Anonymous No.11639980]

>>11639939
>>11639941
>>11639951
>>11639954
>>11639958
>>11639960
I get that there is a god damn lithium salt shortage due to coronachan, but holly hell take some and buy a god damn hooker, don't you have anything better to do ?

[Anonymous No.11639987]

No link to the original paper?

Not that expected sci to be able to find a paper anyway

[Anonymous No.11640003]

>>11639980
after that i'm done, there is just no point in this because he still can't get at these very simple facts:

so bdd is defined as:
>Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) or Body dysmorphia with the suffix morphia, a disorder involving the belief that an aspect of one's appearance is defective and worthy of being hidden or fixed. This belief manifests in thoughts that many times are pervasive and intrusive.

and the treatment for gd is hrt and re-assignment surgery all things that alter morphology so that the tranny can look the way they want to appear. until this point the tranny is clearly not happy (in distress) over their body so they cut their dick off. but yeah they will go on about how gd isn't just sexual bdd and they aren't upset over having a dick while wanting to cut it off. just because they think their sexual identity is so much more special to them then any other identity may be to someone else. not realizing that they are no different than the manlet who wants to identify as chad and goes to leg lengthening surgery to relieve their bdd. but somehow gd is special because it deals with private parts and there is some spooky identity shit mixed in. lol

[Anonymous No.11640037]

>>11631020
>How does someone dares to mess with my intention to be mutilated. My doctor says it's fine

Tranny logic.

[Anonymous No.11640079]

>>11632038

Can't wait for space to be unlocked, so that science can continue beyond the motivations of political bullshittery.

[Anonymous No.11640084]

>>11630829
Call him an incel. Questioning a person's sexual frequency magically ends their thoughtcrime.

[Anonymous No.11640563]

>>11639244
>You dumb fuck don't even know what a stressor is. Hint: it requires an external stimulus and it is the defining aspect of a stressor.
stres·sor
/ˈstresər/
noun
something that causes a state of strain or tension.
"The tranny's dick was a major stressor in xir's life so xir cut it off"

[Anonymous No.11640582]

>>11630185
so something better than electroshock therapy?

[Anonymous No.11640743]

>>11639893
Couldn't have said it better

[Anonymous No.11640760]

>>11639251
>What world are you living on? Do you ever go outside? Homophobia and transphobia are extremely common. LGBT people and particularly transgenders face violence and discrimination at a far higher rate than the general population.
How about caring for an actual oppressed people like Tibetans where they've had their land conquered and their religious leader ousted from the country. LGBT+ individuals have the most social privileged since it is very "in" today to be tolerant and accepting of such peoples. I am not calling out to the mass genocide of aforementioned LGTB+ and Transgender peoples nor supporting the ad hominess attacks against your argument made against people you'd think I'd agree with. I am just calling out for people to recognize that LGTB+ and Transgender peoples are not the most "oppressed" and "mistreated" individuals in society but their mental disease is placed on a pedestal as if its a wonderful condition. It is not and nor am I hateful towards the Transgender or LGBT+ population, but rather I harbor hate towards the fact that such mental disability has to exist.

[Anonymous No.11640766]

>>11630284
Highly antisemitic post.

[Anonymous No.11640793]

>>11633008
No he's in your closet right now.

[Anonymous No.11640841]

>>11632926
>petition removes wrongthink from science journal
>IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT THIS YOU'RE FROM /POL/
>Cry about /pol/ in text body
>Cry about /pol/ in image
>Cry about /pol/ in filename
You're fucking mentally derranged, get help

[Anonymous No.11641189]

>>11639939
Last time it got totally out of hand with my 7 posts reply, so this time I am skipping all your paranoia, memes, delusions, speculations and outright bullshit. Moreover, I am not going to repeat myself or address parts where you simply dismiss published studies for no good reason.
>notice how people get stressed out over getting cancer
Negative feelings over anticipated adverse events would be more appropriately called “anxiety”. Once again, if there is stress, there has to be an external stimulus (the stressor) present that is generating the stress. This is very basic psychology you persist in struggling with even though it should not present any difficulties to anybody with an academic background.
>but the core of it has to do with tissue, hence why hrt and surgery are so effective. because that is just changing tissue and eliminating the stressor
If the core of GD is related to tissue, you would expect to see the vast majority of transgender women desiring sexual reassignment surgery. Yet a substantial proportion of male-to-female transgenders does not want vaginaplasty. This observation can only be the case if tissue is not the central issue of GD as you are thinking it is. Your thesis is false.
>>11639941
>the number of laws designed specifically for their protection says otherwise
The number of laws is a poor indicator for the protection of a certain group. Even if they are in place, they fail to adequately protect LGBT people from hate crimes. In many places crime against LGBT individuals is on the rise.
1/3

[Anonymous No.11641191]

>>11641189
>>11639951
>all literature points to them being the same
You would not know, for you certainly have not read a single study on either GD or BDD. But I guess I can be more specific this time about the differences between the phenomena:
General;
-GD is a form of gender variance and used to be called Gender Identity Disorder in the DSM-IV
-BDD is a mental disorder categorized in the obsessive–compulsive spectrum by the DSM-V
-GD concerns gender identity, BDD is limited to a specific body part
-Prevalence of BDD is 2%, GD occurs less than 1 in 1000
Aetiology:
-different heritability between GD (62%) and BDD (44%)
-GD is related to intersex conditions, deviations in hormone levels and their corresponding receptors
-both disorders have their own distinct neuroanatomical variance
Development:
-BDD has low average age of onset (16), GD has high average age of onset (34)
-recently more children with GD
-GD has two distinct pathways: early onset and late onset trajectories
Symptoms:
-GD symptoms are related to distress of one's assigned gender or sex
-BDD maintains obsessive focus on certain body part
-BDD shares features with obsessive-compulsive disorder
-BDD is related to abnormal visual face processing and low levels of serotonin
Treatment:
-BDD is treated with SSRI’s to relieve OCD symptoms + CBT to help with cognitive symptoms
-GD is treated effectively with transition and sometimes psychotherapy
-Surgery is extremely effective in alleviating GD, but not in BDD
All of this is readily available with simple google searches. Needless to say equating GD with BDD makes no sense at all to anybody who is vaguely familiar with the two conditions.
2/3

[Anonymous No.11641195]

[Anonymous No.11641198]

>>11641191
>>11639954
>a single large scale study can be more informative than 28 shit tiny poor quality evidence study
Your Amsterdam study was not peer reviewed, the methodology was awful and widely known confounders were ignored.
>ofc, and there are other studies that seem to indicate this
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30073551
>https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.119.13080
All those studies that are being talked about did not register confounding variables at all. Most lacked control groups and are not even reporting dose and substances used for HRT, let alone physical exercise, smoking habits, family history of cvd’s, etc. There is no way to verify that HRT was the culprit.
>>11639960
>"Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity." so like tissue and roles that tissue enables you to do
There is no mention of any tissue whatsoever, nor of anything even closely resembling tissue. The whole gender=tissue thing is in your head. You created your own definition of “gender”, because it is very convenient for you to reduce GD to mere anatomical and physical aspects in order to make your little thesis of GD=BDD sound more convincing.
3/3

[Anonymous No.11641233]

>>11641189
>Once again, if there is stress, there has to be an external stimulus (the stressor) present that is generating the stress.
shows how little you know. "Stress is the body's reaction to any change that requires an adjustment or response. The body reacts to these changes with physical, mental, and emotional responses. Stress is a normal part of life. You can experience stress from your environment, your body, and your thoughts." you see that? it's not just external. there is sreason i brought up cancer because it's your own body.
>This is very basic psychology you persist in struggling with even though it should not present any difficulties to anybody with an academic background.
says the brainlet who doesn't know what stress is.
>If the core of GD is related to tissue, you would expect to see the vast majority of transgender women desiring sexual reassignment surgery. Yet a substantial proportion of male-to-female transgenders does not want vaginaplasty. This observation can only be the case if tissue is not the central issue of GD as you are thinking it is. Your thesis is false.
lol, i love how you skipped on hrt and the fact that surgery is unafforable to most trannies. now hrt can be enough for them and it changes tissue morphology, in fact that's the entire point of it. so no, my thesis is spot on still.
>Even if they are in place, they fail to adequately protect LGBT people from hate crimes. In many places crime against LGBT individuals is on the rise.
but you ppl consider being "mis-gendered" a "hate crime" so shit will look inflated.

[Anonymous No.11641236]

>>11641191
> for you certainly have not read a single study on either GD or BDD.
for all your research you show an inability to critically think things through.
>-GD concerns gender identity, BDD is limited to a specific body part
that is what it is defined by but again see why that definition doesn't fit reality here: >>11640003
>Aetiology:
>-different heritability between GD (62%) and BDD (44%)
irrelevant, that is not aetiology, that is prevalence.
>-both disorders have their own distinct neuroanatomical variance
still about butthurt over not having the tissue they want. sure different circuits in the brain, hence why one is bdd and the other is sexual bdd.
>Symptoms:
>-GD symptoms are related to distress of one's assigned gender or sex
because they don't have that sex's tissue. if they did they wouldn't have gd. lmao
>-BDD maintains obsessive focus on certain body part
because being so butthurt you're born with a dick that you cut it off isn;t obsessive. lmao
>-BDD shares features with obsessive-compulsive disorder
it is an ocd sub type actually.
>-BDD is related to abnormal visual face processing and low levels of serotonin
citation needed.
>Treatment:
>-BDD is treated with SSRI’s to relieve OCD symptoms + CBT to help with cognitive symptoms
and who is to say it wouldn't work for gd?
>-GD is treated effectively with transition and sometimes psychotherapy
>and sometimes psychotherapy
like cbt? yeah. but that is still in research atm.

>>11641198
>There is no mention of any tissue whatsoever, nor of anything even closely resembling tissue.
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?

[Anonymous No.11641252]

>>11641191
> for you certainly have not read a single study on either GD or BDD.
for all your research you show an inability to critically think things through.
>-GD concerns gender identity, BDD is limited to a specific body part
that is what it is defined by but again see why that definition doesn't fit reality here: >>11640003
>Aetiology:
>-different heritability between GD (62%) and BDD (44%)
irrelevant, that is not aetiology, that is prevalence.
>-both disorders have their own distinct neuroanatomical variance
still about butthurt over not having the tissue they want. sure different circuits in the brain, hence why one is bdd and the other is sexual bdd.
>Symptoms:
>-GD symptoms are related to distress of one's assigned gender or sex
because they don't have that sex's tissue. if they did they wouldn't have gd. lmao
>-BDD maintains obsessive focus on certain body part
because being so butthurt you're born with a dick that you cut it off isn;t obsessive. lmao
>-BDD shares features with obsessive-compulsive disorder
it is an ocd sub type actually.
>-BDD is related to abnormal visual face processing
citation needed.
>and low levels of serotonin
and gd doesn't?
>Treatment:
>-BDD is treated with SSRI’s to relieve OCD symptoms + CBT to help with cognitive symptoms
and who is to say it wouldn't work for gd?
>-GD is treated effectively with transition and sometimes psychotherapy
>and sometimes psychotherapy
like cbt? yeah. but that is still in research atm.

>>11641198
>There is no mention of any tissue whatsoever, nor of anything even closely resembling tissue.
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?

[Anonymous No.11641270]

>>11641198
>The whole gender=tissue thing is in your head. You created your own definition of “gender”, because it is very convenient for you to reduce GD to mere anatomical and physical aspects in order to make your little thesis of GD=BDD sound more convincing.

[Anonymous No.11641278]

>>11632351
>Shitty science should be prevented from being published.
>I haven't read the paper
Like clockwork.

[Anonymous No.11641285]

>>11641278
Did you just stop reading there or are you actually braindead? Is it even possible to post on 4chan while in a vegetative state? The more you know.

[Anonymous No.11641301]

>>11641191
> for you certainly have not read a single study on either GD or BDD.
for all your research you show an inability to critically think things through.
>-GD concerns gender identity, BDD is limited to a specific body part
that is what it is defined by but again see why that definition doesn't fit reality here: >>11640003 (You)
>Aetiology:
>-different heritability between GD (62%) and BDD (44%)
whoopity shit so one is more heritable than other.
>-both disorders have their own distinct neuroanatomical variance
still about butthurt over not having the tissue they want. sure different circuits in the brain, hence why one is bdd and the other is sexual bdd.
>Symptoms:
>-GD symptoms are related to distress of one's assigned gender or sex
because they don't have that sex's tissue. if they did they wouldn't have gd. lmao
>-BDD maintains obsessive focus on certain body part
because being so butthurt you're born with a dick that you cut it off isn;t obsessive. lmao
>-BDD shares features with obsessive-compulsive disorder
it is an ocd sub type actually.
>-BDD is related to abnormal visual face processing
citation needed.
>and low levels of serotonin
and gd doesn't?
>Treatment:
>-BDD is treated with SSRI’s to relieve OCD symptoms + CBT to help with cognitive symptoms
and who is to say it wouldn't work for gd?
>-GD is treated effectively with transition and sometimes psychotherapy
>and sometimes psychotherapy
like cbt? yeah. but that is still in research atm.

>>11641198
>There is no mention of any tissue whatsoever, nor of anything even closely resembling tissue.
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?

[Anonymous No.11641332]

>>11641191
> for you certainly have not read a single study on either GD or BDD.
for all your research you show an inability to critically think things through.
>-GD concerns gender identity, BDD is limited to a specific body part
that is what it is defined by but again see why that definition doesn't fit reality here: >>11640003
>Aetiology:
>-different heritability between GD (62%) and BDD (44%)
whoopity shit. irrelevant. bdd being a subtype of ocd which is 45-65%.
>-both disorders have their own distinct neuroanatomical variance
still about butthurt over not having the tissue they want. sure different circuits in the brain, hence why one is bdd and the other is sexual bdd.
>Symptoms:
>-GD symptoms are related to distress of one's assigned gender or sex
because they don't have that sex's tissue. if they did they wouldn't have gd. lmao
>-BDD maintains obsessive focus on certain body part
because being so butthurt you're born with a dick that you cut it off isn;t obsessive. lmao
>-BDD shares features with obsessive-compulsive disorder
it is an ocd sub type actually.
>-BDD is related to abnormal visual face processing
citation needed.
>and low levels of serotonin
and gd doesn't?
>Treatment:
>-BDD is treated with SSRI’s to relieve OCD symptoms + CBT to help with cognitive symptoms
and who is to say it wouldn't work for gd?
>-GD is treated effectively with transition and sometimes psychotherapy
>and sometimes psychotherapy
like cbt? yeah. but that is still in research atm.

>>11641198
>There is no mention of any tissue whatsoever, nor of anything even closely resembling tissue.
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?
so why go on hrt and cut your dick off if tissue doesn't matter?

[Anonymous No.11641596]

>>11639893
I'm Venezuelan too and fuck you. I say trans rights, mamaguebo.

[Anonymous No.11641691]

>>11631020
>Your emotions should not decide what I have access to.
Ironic

[Anonymous No.11641698]

>>11640760
>I harbor hate towards the fact that such mental disability has to exist.
You are so oppressed omg

[Anonymous No.11641705]

>>11640841
>defending /pol/ ever
Sorry kiddo, you've already lost.

[Anonymous No.11641741]

>>11634008
there's actually quite strong in the evidence that reassignment improves dysphoria, its the things mentioned after that have low evidence.

[Anonymous No.11641747]

>>11634216
>this meme

Every time that graph is posted I argue with myself over whether it's intentional bait of if you retards actually think brain size = IQ

[Anonymous No.11641755]

>>11641747
*or if

[Anonymous No.11641768]

>>11630195
perhaps I am not up to date anymore but why are they mad about this? I thought that was the entire argument they used, that they were male bodies with female brains.

[Anonymous No.11641779]

>>11630859
It's much simpler than a secret kabal of Jooz.
People who are transgender consider it transphobic to suggest there's something wrong with them that can be fixed.
They have a narrative they subscribe to (namely that gender dysphoria can only be treated with a sex change) and they believe anything else undermines their cause, their legitimacy and themselves as individuals.
If someone had invented a pill that magically got rid of gender dysphoria with no side effects whatsoever, it would mean that everyone who transitioned is a retard who mutilated themselves for no reason.
That's not to say this is what the author believes, but any statement that goes in the vague direction of "there's something to do about this other than transitioning" creates this ironically reactionary response, be it because they're absolutely convicted that anything other than their world view is transphobia, because they're afraid of dealing with the consequences of them being wrong or a mix of both.
The trans community isn't unique in this, I'd argue you can find a topic for any group that would cause such a reaction.

And with academics being a generally left wing bunch it's not surprising it was treated this poorly.

[Anonymous No.11641822]

>>11641779
>They have a narrative they subscribe to (namely that gender dysphoria can only be treated with a sex change)
ahhh ok, that makes sense.


I think that anon>>11630859 might be more referring to the enablers or progenitors of this type of thing in general. Or maybe not, I am not him

[Anonymous No.11641909]

>>11641768
Now they say it has nothing to do with their body while threatening suicide unless doctors chop their dicks off and claiming they're not mentally ill.

[Anonymous No.11642036]

>>11641768
You're focusing on the wrong part - it's the "deleterious" part that is the issue, they're saying the researcher started with the assumption that trans = bad and trans brain = disordered, and the researcher inappropriately applied studies as evidence to support this idea (see >>11632026).

There is plenty of studies done in areas like neuroscience that attempt to find differences in brain regions (primarily in the form of different relative proportions, not the way they are networked or "disordered") between transgendered peoples and ordinary peoples - these studies are often presented as evidence that transgenderism is not merely a behavioural condition that can be fixed easily. Looking at brain structure is not something shunned by trans peoples as in general it actually tends to support the idea that their brains tend to deviate away from their birth sex and more towards the gender they identify as.

[Anonymous No.11642100]

>>11642036
>they're saying the researcher started with the assumption that trans = bad and trans brain = disordered,
How is being trans not bad nor disordered? Seems like a major impediment in one's life being born trans, no?

[Anonymous No.11642138]

>>11642100
Outside of the mental impacts of dysphoria, there's nothing much at all that shows that being trans is the actual cause of their negative outcomes. Things like being discriminated against for jobs, social isolation by peers, parental rejection, etc. are all factors that are routinely shown to produce negative outcomes and are generally strongly associated with trans people, however these are socially motivated outcomes rather than a cause of being trans itself.

You are also doing the same thing the researcher did, you are literally assuming being trans is bad rather than presenting any actual evidence it is. You haven't actually show what the cause of trans individuals having a higher suicide rate actually is, and are misrepresenting broad statistics that does not adjust for external factors because the purpose of the research likely wasn't to do that.

[Anonymous No.11642145]

>>11642036
>deleterious
isn't gender dysphoria still considered a disorder. Isn't it someone believing they are in the wrong body. Thus there is something wrong, a deleterious mutation in the brain given they are in the wrong body.

[Anonymous No.11642197]

>>11642138
>Things like being discriminated against for jobs, social isolation by peers, parental rejection, etc. are all factors that are routinely shown to produce negative outcomes and are generally strongly associated with trans people, however these are socially motivated outcomes rather than a cause of being trans itself.

Humans are repulsed by self-mutilated and rightfully so.

[Anonymous No.11642386]

>>11642138
>Outside of the mental impacts of dysphoria
The very basis of what makes them trans to begin with.
>Things like being discriminated against for jobs, social isolation by peers, parental rejection, etc.
Sure that all adds to make life more difficult but all else equal life is easier not being trans even if those factors weren't there. Just considering having to take HRT pills and what not daily alone, let alone the more extreme procedures some have to take to prevent committing suicide. So being trans is a dis-ease.

[Anonymous No.11642411]

>>11642138
>Outside of the mental impacts of dysphoria
The very basis of what makes them trans to begin with.
>Things like being discriminated against for jobs, social isolation by peers, parental rejection, etc.
Sure that all adds to make life more difficult but all else equal life is easier not being trans even if those factors weren't there. Just considering having to take HRT pills and what not daily alone, let alone the more extreme procedures some have to take to prevent committing suicide. So being trans is a dis-ease.
>You are also doing the same thing the researcher did, you are literally assuming being trans is bad rather than presenting any actual evidence it is.
The suicide rate is evidence, not clear cut but evidence. P sure he presented some evidence but it isn't enough for the standard you set you need for this.
>You haven't actually show what the cause of trans individuals having a higher suicide rate actually is, and are misrepresenting broad statistics that does not adjust for external factors because the purpose of the research likely wasn't to do that.
Sure there may be confounding variables that explain some of that, but so far the outlook based on this minimal evidence doesn't look good. Then there is the matter I outlined earlier that life without even considering everything else would just be easier not being trans. Making being trans a dis-ease by definition. A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

[Anonymous No.11642873]

>>11641779
Do you know the definition of insanity?

[Anonymous No.11643074]

>>11639893
Based post.
I hope things will work out for you and your family, anon.

[Anonymous No.11643081]

>>11631264
It already is for a lot of them. Self inflicted

[Anonymous No.11643492]

>>11632016
>>11632026
>>11632038
>/pol/ revealed to be seething and screaming to the high heavens about trannies yet again
imagine my shock

[Anonymous No.11643940]

>>11642411
by your definition being poor is a disease you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.11643955]

>>11643940
>A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.
>being poor
lol wut?

[Anonymous No.11643997]

>>11643955
how is being poor not a disorder of function?

[Anonymous No.11644008]

>>11643997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt-ZxemdPYM

[Anonymous No.11644064]

>>11630185
Normalizing insanity and punishing reason now that's what I call (((progress))).