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11561733 No.11561733 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

I don't believe in superposition or wavefunction collapse. Quantum mechanics is right but the interpretations are wrong.

>> No.11561766

>>11561733
That's a very 1920 kind of concern, you're not a lone.

>> No.11561796

>>11561766
I also don't believe in general relativity. The mathematical framework is valid but the interpretation is wrong. Simultaneity is not relative, and as such, the speed of light is not the same for all observers relative to the observer (however, the perceived speed of light may be the same for all observers relative to the observer).

>> No.11561812

>>11561733
An obvious bait but,
you can actually see superposition retard.
Try throwing two rocks in a lake and you will see the superposition of the waves in the overlapping regions.
Get a brain retard

>> No.11561823

>>11561812
KEK

>> No.11562055

>>11561812
That's interference, not superposition.

>> No.11562070

>>11561812
>superposition of the waves in the overlapping regions.
based trellposter

>> No.11562101

copenhagen was a mistake

>> No.11562372

>>11562055
Fucking kill yourself retard

>> No.11563055
File: 24 KB, 432x258, Bohm_David.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
11563055

>>11561733
You're right not to, they don't make intuitive sense. It's based on logical positivism. Scientists are stuck in a philosophy where the only good form of epistemic justification is our ability to observe it. It's ridiculous to assume that the only properties which are real are those that we can measure and know.

>Copenhagen was wrong.
>Einstein didn't want to admit that special relativity wasn't a complete view of how our universe works
>Probably because recognizing the current evidence requires us to accept non-locality
>non-locality is impossible in special relativity
>his beautiful beautiful brain child
>probably couldn't stand to give up his beautifully elegant notion of our new 4d world
>him, Podolsky and Rosen came up with EPR and consider quantum mechanics incomplete

Look into Bohm's theory, it's a coherent interpretation that doesn't require superpositions or wavefunction collapses.

>> No.11563101

>>11561796
based
but doesn't Lawrence Ether Theory seem just as ridiculous?

>> No.11563277

>>11561733
You might find pilot wave theory interesting. The interpretation keeps particles as particles but also explains interference patterns and such.

Idk how valid it actually is, it's probably completely wrong but at least it's interesting

>> No.11563447

>>11561733
Superposition isn't interpretation. You're correct with the rest though. I firmly believe every interpretation is wrong.

>> No.11563456

>>11563055
>Look into Bohm's theory,
Or don't, since it's been BTFO by experiments.

>> No.11563663

>>11562055
based
>>11562101
based
>>11562372
retard

>> No.11563680

>>11562372
He's right though

>> No.11563687

Decoherence has been disproven, eliminating MWI and other such theories
https://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0312059.pdf

non local realism has been falsified, eliminating pilot wave and other non local theories
https://arxiv.org/pdf/0704.2529.pdf

"Wigner's Friend" thought experiment has been confirmed experimentally
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1902.05080.pdf

Superposition and wave function collapse are real. The best interpretations that aligns with reality is the Von-Neumann-Wigner interpretation, known as "consciousness causes collapse".

>> No.11563689

first for Consistent histories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_histories

>>11563277
>>11563055
Bohmian interpretation cannot even recover the predictions of QFT. It is not a valid interpretation like other ones.

>> No.11563840
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11563840

>>11563687
>arxiv
pic related
>Von-Neumann Wigner
Oh, you're not all bad.

>> No.11563843
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11563843

>>11563689
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistent_histories
>based on Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity

>> No.11563857

>>11561733
Quantum mechanics is sound. The collapse seems hard to swallow at first thought, but that's because most people aren't looking at it correctly. They assume the collapse happens the moment before we make an observation, but in actuality all the variables were already entangled together a long time ago, meaning the reality we observe is not constantly experiencing collapses, we're merely observing the result of a collapse that happened a long, long time ago.

>> No.11563862

>>11563857
Well then it wasn't really in a superposition

>> No.11563865

>>11563862
It was at the point before the collapse.

>> No.11563868

>>11563865
t. cuckenhagen
Then why is that any different than it collapsing right before it is measured?

>> No.11563875

>>11563868
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

>> No.11563879

>>11563875
>many-cucks interpretation
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA okay then

>> No.11563883

>>11563689
Consistent histories sounds like junk science proposed by a druggie.

>> No.11563885

>>11563883
>druggie
Worse, a relativist.

>> No.11563887

>>11561733
literally all modern physicists understand that QM is just a temporary framework needed to discuss the concepts efficiently. Nobody sincerely thinks the mechanisms as they are described directly reflects reality.

>> No.11563897

>>11563887
I wish you were right.
Do you feel the same about Einsteinian relativity? (that it is a temporary framework, and/or that others understand it to be a temporary framework)

>> No.11563898

>>11563840
>trusting capitalism-driven journals
lmao

>>11563887
>literally all modern physicists understand that QM is just a temporary framework
Although you pulled this out quite recently, it still stinks like the shit in your rectum.

>>11561733
>not "believing in" superposition
>not believing you can add things

This board is as shitty as all your education.

>> No.11563902

>>11563898
>>not "believing in" superposition
>>not believing you can add things
non sequitur

>> No.11563915
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11563915

>>11563887
wrong

>> No.11563917

>>11563902
mathematically, that's all superposition is. the whole nonsense of being "in multiple states at the same time" is pop science mumbo jumbo meant to make retards think they know the first think about physics. your stance on the subject reveals you to be as much.

>> No.11563930

>>11563917
>the whole nonsense of being "in multiple states at the same time"
Actually, the claim is that it's in neither state, not that it's in both. Of course, the scientists who believe that are retards, but you are an even bigger retard for not realizing that they believe that.

>> No.11563933

That's why the phrase "shut up and calculate" exists. The best interpretation is no interpretation at all. I don't know who is paying Sean Carroll to spread the MWI nonsense, but he needs to go away.

>> No.11563940

>>11563933
>That's why the phrase "shut up and calculate" exists. The best interpretation is no interpretation at all.
This is dumb as fuck.
>I don't know who is paying Sean Carroll to spread the MWI nonsense, but he needs to go away.
This is based as fuck.
I simultaneously love you for posting something based and hate you for posting something retarded. Schrodinger's shitposter.

>> No.11564560

>>11563930
No, pop-sci claims it's "both at once". Or do you mean you claim it's neither? That's also not correct, since you're complete rejecting superposition. Unless you're not OP, in which case I have no desire to check what it was you claim or claim not.

>> No.11564594

>>11563663
Dude if you think waves on a lake is not superposition you literally need to kill yourself
Interference is the generation of sum and difference frequencies as a result of squaring the superimposed fields. Either E fields or probability fields to give optical intensity or probability amplitude
You’re welcome don’t ever fucking reply to me again you insufferable faggot

>> No.11564638

>>11563687
>https://arxiv.org/pdf/0704.2529.pdf
I'm guessing you didn't read this. What they conclude is that we'd still have to accept non-intuitive ideas which doesn't at all exclude Bohm's configurational spaces. It's not like wave collapses are anymore counter-intuitive. >>11563456
You're thinking of Broglie's theory. I'd like to see one experiment that btfo of Bohm's interpretation.

>> No.11564784

>>11564638
>I'd like to see one experiment that btfo of Bohm's interpretation
Sure:
https://www.quantamagazine.org/famous-experiment-dooms-pilot-wave-alternative-to-quantum-weirdness-20181011/
Done by Bohr's grandson btw.

>> No.11564845

>>11564560
I think you’re confusing Bohm with Bohr.

“ Early on, de Broglie did offer a kind of compromise, a version of his theory that was promulgated again in 1952 by the physicist David Bohm, and which is now known as Bohmian mechanics or de Broglie-Bohm theory. In this picture, there’s an abstract wave function that extends through space — an entity that’s just as mysterious in this theoretical framework as it is in the Copenhagen interpretation — as well as real particles somewhere in it. Proofs in the 1970s showed that de Broglie-Bohm theory makes exactly the same predictions as standard quantum mechanics. However, with one element of classical reality restored — concrete particles — new mysteries arise, like how or why a mathematical wave function that’s spread everywhere in space is bolted in certain places to physical particles. “Quantum mechanics is not less weird from that perspective,” Tomas Bohr said. Most physicists agree, but it’s really just a matter of taste, since the experimental predictions are identical.”

Bohr realizes it in no way disproves Bohm.

>> No.11564867

itt: /lit/ tier math illiterate retards read too much about the metaphysics of actual physics and develop strangely strong opinions on subjects they don't really understand.

>> No.11564896

>>11564867
Yes this is me.

>> No.11564907
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11564907

>>11561733
Are you a many-worlder?

>> No.11564915

>>11561733
No shit.

>> No.11564931

>>11561812
>>11562372
>the absolute state of this board

>> No.11565037

>>11563687
>Decoherence has been disproven, eliminating MWI
Kek. Imagine actually believing this because you read some shitty paper that you didn't even understand. The absolute state of you and your life.

>> No.11565073

>>11564867
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO U CANT HAVE AN OPINION ON A THEORY OF PHYSICS THAT REQUIRES ONLY BASIC MATH TO UNDERSTAND, THAT'S HECKING MESSED UP.
>I WORK AT MCDONALDS BUT MY DEGREE IN MATH MAKES ME AN AUTHORITY ON THE SUBJECT

>> No.11565223

>>11564845
Errr, what? Did you try quoting a different post?

>> No.11565230

I didnt believe in wavefunction collapse until I heard about the quantum zeno effect. Not believing in superposition just makes you a schizo tho

>> No.11565267

>>11564931
>I don’t believe in addition
Kys yourself

>> No.11565350

>>11564907
no

>> No.11565365

>>11564560
>No, pop-sci claims it's "both at once"
nope
>>11564594
>Interference is the generation of sum and difference frequencies as a result of squaring the superimposed fields. Either E fields or probability fields to give optical intensity or probability amplitude
nope

>> No.11565370
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11565370

>>11565230
you can't have superposition without wavefunction collapse

>> No.11565383

>>11564638
>>11564784
>Bohm
>Bohr
>Broglie
HOW CAN You kEEEP ALL THESE NAMES STRAIGHT?

>> No.11565385

>>11565073
lol

>> No.11565396

>>11565267
>shitposting unironically
go back to redd*t

>> No.11565436
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11565436

>>11565365
>>No, pop-sci claims it's "both at once"
>nope
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2017/07/04/what-is-quantum-computing-a-super-easy-explanation-for-anyone/
>these particles can exist in more than one state at a time
https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/what-is-a-quantum-computer-explained-with-a-simple-example-b8f602035365/
>Each qubit can not only be set to 1 or 0, but it can also be set to 1 and 0
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/08/more-evidence-support-quantum-theory-s-spooky-action-distance
>Bizarrely, quantum theory says that the electron can also spin equally both ways at once

Go fuck yorrself, you literal human fuckhole.

>> No.11565442

>>11565370
That's not correct. You can't have wavefunction collapse without superposition it's the opposite. Superposition is a mathematical artifact of the linearity of differential equations, whereas wavefunction collapse says that observations are going to cause an observed state to be one of the various nodes that are the solution to the differential equation.

So its basically the other way around.

>> No.11565574

>>11565383
The vector potential guy
The atomic energy levels guy
The momentum guy
Easy

>> No.11565765

>>11564560
>No, pop-sci claims it's "both at once".
No, that's what superposition is. It's not "pop sci" it's the literal actual physics and math. Superposition DOES MEAN '"it's both spin up AND spin down at the same time".

>> No.11565819

>>11565765
This. We limit our understanding of things because our own perception is inherently based on what we can measure, and in quantum physics that alters the hidden truth.

>> No.11566023
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11566023

>>11565436
>implying it's actually the ""spin""

>> No.11566259

>>11565765
It doesn't matter what's actually happening. You claimed
>pop-sci claims it's in neither state
which is blatantly wrong. Don't move the goalpost here now. You already lost.

>>11566023
See above, retard.
>he proved me wrong so I must attack something else

>> No.11567200

>>11564560
>>11565765
You are both actual retards

>> No.11567204

>>11565436
>>11566023
>implying electron 'spin' literally means the electrons spin
>ACTUALLY believing this
o-oh, you're teenagers. Sorry for being so harsh on you before.

>> No.11567229

>>11566259
No, I never claimed that, that was a different anon.
Here's a tip for using 4chan: Assume every single poster is a unique user.

>> No.11567232

>>11567200
That is the literal physics and math, shut the fuck up you coping shit for brains moron. It's not "pop sci" and it's not wrong, the particle is both spin up and spin down at the same instance until measurement.

>> No.11567267

>>11567232
I am not the one who called it pop sci, retard, and no, it is not both until measurement you absolute kekfuck. If we can't measure it as being both then we have literally no way of knowing it is both so stop pretending to know things that you don't know fuckall about, retarded fuck copencuck.

>> No.11567516

>>11567232
>diagonally polarized light is simultaneously vertically and horizontally polarized until you measure it! this is the correct metaphysical interpretation of the phenomenon!
this is how retarded you sound. imagine getting filtered by linear algebra.

>> No.11568002

>>11567516
Absolutely fucking based, I had no idea one anon can be this fucking based

>> No.11568549

>>11567200
I disagree.

>>11567204
I did not say that, fucking retard. Don't put words in my mouth I didn't say.

>>11567229
Then why did you join the discussion pointing that out? Makes no sense unless you support the assumption "pop-sci does not say particles are both in spin up and spin down state".

>> No.11568553

>>11568549
>Makes no sense unless you support the assumption "pop-sci does not say particles are both in spin up and spin down state".
Maybe, JUST MAYBE, because while he is not the same anon, he does agree with that anon?

>> No.11568634

>>11568553
Then my response was sound and his objection meaningless. What are you people even arguing?
All I said was that his claim that "pop-sci does not say it's both at once" was wrong and providing evidence. It's really not a post that should incite so many replies as his wrongness is clear as day.

>> No.11568757

>>11563915
Who is Satosi Watanabe and why does his interpretation sound amazing

>> No.11570748

>>11568757

>> No.11570758

>>11568634
cause you're wrong and he's right
>>11568757
>deterministic
into the trash it goes

>> No.11570813

>>11561733
Who the fuck cares about interpretations? They all give the same results, so who fucking cares?

Never have I heard about interpretations in my QFT courses, so I believe it is irrelevant

>> No.11570822
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11570822

>>11570813
cause your teacher just teaches the interpretation they believe

>> No.11570842

>>11567516
Objectively yes, just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean that's not how the universe works you dumb fuck.

>> No.11571076

>>11561733
based frogposter

>> No.11571101

>>11561733
Yep. Reminder that Schrodinger's cat was an allegory for how the idea of superpositions is stupid. The cat isn't "in both states" it's fucking dead you handicaps.

>> No.11571135

>>11571101
No, the cat is alive, you massive fucking faggot. The vial did not break. And the cat is going to break out of that box and claw your FUCKING face off.

>> No.11571144

>>11565073
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO U CANT HAVE AN OPINION ON A THEORY OF PHYSICS THAT REQUIRES ONLY BASIC MATH TO UNDERSTAND,
Correct.

>> No.11571146

>>11571144
>Correct.
Incorrect.

>> No.11571152

>>11567267
>you absolute kekfuck
>>>r/eddit

>> No.11571161

>>11571146
>Incorrect.
Incorrect.

>> No.11571167
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11571167

>all the anti-quantum zealots making fools of themselves ITT
how pitiful

>> No.11571205
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11571205

>tfw god controls the outcome of every measurement and you plebs STILL dont believe he exists.
He is even trolling us with the slit experiment, of course it would not split into a wave that makes no sense.


GOD IS TRYING TO MAKE US NOTICE HIM WAKE UP!

>> No.11571224

>>11571167
OP is not an anti-quantum post

>> No.11572472

>>11570758
>cause you're wrong and he's right
Nigga you must be trolling. Provide two pop-sci articles saying otherwise.

>> No.11572521

>>11561733
stupid cavenigger, superposition is based on actual physics laws.(something is so fast that it cant be measured exactly ever so it appears to be in multiple positions.

>> No.11572920

>>11572521
retard

>> No.11572921

>>11571224
>I don’t believe in superposition or wave function collapse
Yes it is

>> No.11572980

>>11571205
isn't god a placenta?

>> No.11574720

>>11572921
nope

>> No.11574973
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11574973

Physics is solved
https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2020/04/finally-we-may-have-a-path-to-the-fundamental-theory-of-physics-and-its-beautiful/

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