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/sci/ - Science & Math

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11550336 No.11550336 [Reply] [Original]

chemistry major here

does anyone else hate pre-meds for ruining the vibe of chemistry and chemistry classes?

pre-meds manage to take an amazing field that teaches you how reality functions, gives you a better understanding of the world, and turn it into a perceived boring stupid GPA killer that sucks because you have to "cram for the exam ermageeerrrd" and "ughhhh memorize glycolysis for the MCAT" instead of playing smash bros.

it feels like i'm the only one who wants to be there and is marvelling at what i'm learning, while everyone else is being "studious" and "using discipline to buckle down and study this shit so they can be successful" and my mindset is so dfiferent from them that i'm very lonely and can't make friends with my classmates.

pre-meds are annoying because they retain that gross high school mentality for all of university. this mentality of "ugh gotta study and cram hard for the exam" and not understanding the beauty of what they're learning, at all. viewing professors as their enemies instead of preachers of beautiful information.

i mean, if i do a reddit search for "glycolysis", instead of seeing people ask interesting questions about glycolysis out of curiosity, it's full of premeds complaining about the MCAT, complaining about "biochem ughhh". they have their stupid "study tips" instead of just being interested in the material itself.

you know why being a chemistry major sucks? it's really lonely to be surrounded by all this annoying stuck-up asian indian basic pre-meds. yes i said it, they're all snooty stuck up brown kids who only go to class to make mommy and daddy proud.

>> No.11550341

>>11550336
Never trust anyone who says "ochem" or "orgo"

Organic chemistry is so awesome, I really hate pre-meds for giving it a bad name

>> No.11550351

I have a similar experience (not in chemistry though). It seems like the majority of uni students are only there to "get a good job" and not because they actually care about the subject they are studying.
It's pretty depressing. You'd think if there was a place for actual nerds who love learning to be it would be university, but it seems that even that has been overrun by people with no real intellectual motivation

>> No.11550352

What's the appeal of chemistry? I never understood it. The way I learned chem, was that we had to memorize a bunch of models that have a bunch of shitty exceptions because the models are shitty. Like, how come physics/math is so unified and elegant but chemistry is so disorganized and cluttered? I could never develop an intuition for the subject

>> No.11550363

>>11550351
>It seems like the majority of uni students are only there to "get a good job" and not because they actually care about the subject they are studying.

yup

>> No.11550644
File: 35 KB, 334x445, 519mOU4XKxL._SY445_QL70_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11550644

>>11550352
>The way I learned chem, was that we had to memorize a bunch of models that have a bunch of shitty exceptions because the models are shitty.
Well to be fair I feel like a lot of people have that conception of chemistry, I think it's due to the way they teach it in HS and first year of uni.
Once you past that point you get rid of that crap and actually get to know more "formal" stuff
as a side note if you learn chemistry by just memorizing stuff you're sure to fail. That's why pre-meds cry that organic chemsitry is so hard
instead of understand the reaction they just try to memorize it.
>how come physics/math is so unified and elegant but chemistry is so disorganized.
Chemistry is an experimental science, everything depend on your experiement parameters the way something will behave or react depends on solvent, pH, temp, intermolecular interaction, light, quencher, ox/red, kinetics.
chemistry is always in a complex system, if you remove a lot parameter and focus theoretically on just one aspect you have an elegant theory but can never really be applied because of the system complexity

>> No.11550666

>>11550336
My undergrad had like 3 premeds in the entire year, so no. It was actually pretty chill.

>> No.11550714
File: 714 KB, 2518x1683, virginvschad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11550714

>>11550644
>as a side note if you learn chemistry by just memorizing stuff you're sure to fail. That's why pre-meds cry that organic chemsitry is so hard

I hate to say this, but while organic chemistry is not about memorizing, you actually do have to memorize biochemistry.

>> No.11550720

UK here, we don't have any pre-meds
That said you still get lots of people with the same attitude described. Not really into the subject they're just doing it to get a flashy bachelors degree and then go on to do something shitty like accounting or whatever. Most of them get weeded out in first or second year though, some stick it the whole three years but now I'm in my masters year pretty much everyone is in chemistry for the chemistry, albiet a much smaller cohort.

>> No.11550721

>>11550336
It's ok. Once you get to physical chemistry, you'll start hating all the future organic chemists ruining your classes instead of the pre-meds.

>> No.11550723

>>11550714
Those are all really bad reasons to major in a pure science. I hope that's not autobiographical because you're in for a rude awakening when you're applying to jobs with a BS in Chem.

>> No.11550728

>>11550721
Do you not study physical chemistry at the same time as organic in the US?

>> No.11550732

>>11550728
My program was general -> organic -> physical (thermo -> quantum) -> inorganic. Everything else was fluid in its placement.

>> No.11550735

>>11550732
Ah for us it's all three areas in tandem, so there's one inorganic physical and organic module per semester until you get to third/fourth year (if you're on the masters programme) and get to choose your modules.

>> No.11550758

>hurr why people don't like what i like durrr

M8, it's just a stepping stone to them, deal with it. It is of little use in clinical practice (in terms of all those details, chemical structures, how many steps in glycolisis/krebs cycle/beta oxidation/whatever). Rough overview is more than enough and mental effort is best spent elsewhere.

>interesting questions about glycolysis out of curiosity

Interesting to you perhaps. Do you care about differential diagnosis of acute abdomen? Stool regularity and shape? Carpal ligaments? Sudden onset of chest pain and its possible causes? Differentiating between acute bronchitis vs pneumonia? Complete/differential blood count? No? That's fine, they don't care about 3d structure of amino acids either.

>> No.11550765

>>11550758
Why does the US make all its students go through pre-med or pre-whatever courses before "majoring" in something? Why not just have medics spend 5 years studying a medicine degree like they do in the UK? Instead of making them spend however long studying something they aren't interested in and will never use before actually starting their chosen degree.

>> No.11550794 [DELETED] 

>>11550765
>Why does the US make all its students go through pre-med or pre-whatever courses before "majoring" in something?

Who knows, seems completely retarded but hey, they still use feet for measurement of length and practice circumcision without medical indication or being muzzies/kikes. Cultural thing i guess.

>> No.11550845

>>11550352
>Maths
>Elegant
Maths suck and are a clusterfuck. We're still stuck with the shitty decimal system.

>> No.11550853

>>11550723
You don't understand the spirit of Virgin vs Chad memes.

>> No.11550994

>>11550714
>Doug's Lab
I miss that nigga like you wouldn't believe

>> No.11550998

>>11550845
>stuck with the decimal system
is this bait? this has to be bait.

>> No.11551014

>>11550845
Kek

>> No.11551065

I wish chemistry threads were more of a regular occurrence on /sci/

>> No.11551077

>>11551065
bump

>> No.11551112

>>11550853
no I mean, I get it, but some of those examples are pretty specific. If it's all meant in jest, then disregard my post

>> No.11551115

>>11550352
>Like, how come physics/math is so unified and elegant but chemistry is so disorganized and cluttered?
Because of the principle of computational irreducibility and the principle of computational equivalence

>> No.11551201

>>11550336
Lots of physics and math majors feel the same way about engineers.

>> No.11551259

>>11550644
I only took what I believe would be "organic chemistry 1" in America. I seriously hope this is not the class you're talking about that premeds struggle with because I don't think I had to "study" for more than an hour per test. In fact I mostly just guessed and bullshitted my way through gen chem 1&2 and organic 1 by writing dumb paragraphs about coulomb's law and charge density the more "organic" like problems, or by doing basic arithmetic on a standard calculator for gen chem problems. Literally: "play with pretend magnets and learn how to count, retards" tier class

>> No.11551327

>>11551259
organic chemistry seems too easy.

like, the rest of science is complicated equations, graphs, math, etc. except organic chemistry, which is just dumping together chemicals and building molecules like legos.

>> No.11551486

>>11551327
Chances are you've only done pretty basic organic chemistry. Not from US so I don't know what "organic chemistry XYZ" means in terms of course structure, but it's a lot more difficult at more advanced levels than core undergrad. Sure, basic retrosynthesis and understanding mechanisms is pretty easy especially if you're that way inclined with the way you think. That said I've known people who are quite good at physical/inorganic chemistry that simply don't "get" organic chemistry and try to memorise everything. It comes more naturally to some than others.

>> No.11551493

>>11550765
>Why not just have medics spend 5 years studying a medicine degree like they do in the UK?
Med school admissions are very highly regulated by national medical organizations in the USA in order to keep supply of doctors low. This is harder to do successfully if you have to weed out at the high school level instead of the undergraduate level. Pharmacy programs do operate the way you suggest, I believe.

>> No.11551501

>>11550336
Well I'm pre-med and I adore chem, there are good pre-meds who enjoy learning about chemistry and STEM in general and make learning their focus, rather than the accumulation of info for tests

>> No.11551504

>>11551486
>That said I've known people who are quite good at physical/inorganic chemistry that simply don't "get" organic chemistry and try to memorise everything.
At the undergraduate level, memorization is a legitimate way to pass. There are too many exceptions and (in my experience) they don't teach enough fundamentals for you to understand the exceptions. I was never at risk of failing undergrad organic, but I hated it. It wasn't until I took physical organic in grad school that I started to develop an appreciation for it.

>> No.11551528

>>11551504
>At the undergraduate level, memorization is a legitimate way to pass
Yes, but if you want to go further with it it's not a good idea as you need the understanding
>There are too many exceptions and (in my experience) they don't teach enough fundamentals for you to understand the exceptions
To be honest I never really found this. First year maybe. After that though pretty much every "exception" could be explained by deeper understanding of the mechanism or whatever, which the lecturers often went through.

>> No.11551535

>>11551486
>Chances are you've only done pretty basic organic chemistry. Not from US so I don't know what "organic chemistry XYZ"

Not the same person you replied to but I'm the one who said I found it stupid easy.

Look up MIT organic chemistry 1 practice exams on google and you will find a page with pdf files. It was on that level or difficulty for the organic chemistry 1 stuff.

For the gen chem stuff, I'd assume it's the same in most countries. Buffers, the titration shit, electrolysis, orbital crap, etc.

>> No.11551540

>>11551535
I know it's harder later on obviously, but which class is the ones premed find hard was my question. And I hope its not organic 1 because that's pretty pathetic.

>> No.11551597

>>11550336
>vibe
kys norman

>> No.11551607

>>11551535
Just had a look
Yeah it looks like a lot of basic stuff, the sort of thing we cover mostly in first semester undergrad which was quite easy to get through.

>> No.11551615

>>11551535
>>11551607
Also we don't really do a gen chem module, most of the stuff you describe was covered at A-level although they are briefly covered again at university either in lab reports or as part of the relevant inorganic/physical/organic module

>> No.11552693

>>11551528
>Yes, but if you want to go further with it it's not a good idea as you need the understanding
I agree.
>To be honest I never really found this. First year maybe. After that though pretty much every "exception" could be explained by deeper understanding of the mechanism or whatever, which the lecturers often went through.
First year is all I did in undergrad. My biggest issue was there there were always competing effects and there never seemed to be a solid way to realize which effect dominated without being told which or going into a lab yourself. Maybe it gets easier with more intuition, but most undergrads don't have that.

>> No.11552721

>>11550336
I hate premeds too. I am a humanities major but taking some science classes because I would like to apply to medical school and hopefully get into primary care like psychiatry or maybe rural family medicine. Premeds are terrible people. Most of the ones I know are obsessed with becoming surgeons of some kind or being "gunners" in medical school. Oh it's because they love to "help people" when you ask them why they can't help people as a nurse or social worker they stumble over their words and always give some cringe reason like "medicine is my passion!" but in reality they are just narcissistic fucks with a god complex who want to feel superior to others and make bank. Fuck premeds.

>> No.11552954

>>11550351
>It seems like the majority of uni students are only there to "get a good job" and not because they actually care about the subject they are studying.
Yup. My true interests have no career possibilities, so I'm forced to settle for something I'm not crazy about in order to make a decent living.

>> No.11553181

>>11550336
Huh? You must be a 1st or 2nd year because after that the pre-meds should be mostly gone, unless they're taking it as an elective.
I'm a 4th year biochem & molec. biology major and they were out of my hair after 2nd year. A few popped up here and there in biochem 1&2 or ged-ed required classes like genetics, but classes like quantitative analysis, physical chemistry, eukaryotic cell biology, molecular genetics, and immunology had little to none.

>> No.11553279

>>11553181
at my university, chemistry majors share a lot of classes with biochemistry majors, who are almost entirely snotty stuck up brown pre-meds. they even consist the majority of physical chemistry classes.

>> No.11553292

>>11550336
I feel your pain with engineers in math and physics.
But frankly, mathematicians and physicists aren't much better.

>> No.11553296

>>11550845
2*Pi radians is still a splinter in my head when I see it
Fucking deranged mixing radiuses and diameters like that
We need Pi diamatrens or Tau radians.
Mathematicians use counterintuitive and obfuscatory notation then marvel at the few cases where it lines up properly and demand that we keep the bad notation because it makes this tiny number of formulae look good
I hate them so much

>> No.11553297

>>11550336
I majored in biochem and went into research. I tutored all the kids in my classes that ended up going to med school. Most of those people def just wanted to get the shit over with and not actually understand it. It did however make me learn it better trying to dumb it down so they could understand.

>> No.11553299

>>11551504
Trying to study chem without first understanding physics drove me mental enough that I switched to math and physics majors just so that I could come back to chem later.

>> No.11553301

>>11550714
The only shit in biochemistry you need to memorize is amino acid structures, and other shit you could just look up in a textbook. The other stuff is all intuitive if you actually study it.

>> No.11553304

>>11550728
I studied organic my sophomore year, and physical chemistry my senior. I would have studied physical chemistry along with calculus if I could do it again.

>> No.11553307

>>11550758
Imho, what we really need are different streams of chem, math, physics etc.
As in "chem" and "chem for medicine and engineering" or "physics" and "physics for engineering" or "math" and "mathematics for sciences and engineering". Would be so much better for nerd as niggas like myself who naively go in thinking they're going to learn math rigorously and from the bottom up via definitions and proofs and get handed a bunch of heuristics that work just because trust me bro.

>> No.11553325

chemistry : pre-meds

:: philosophy : pre-laws

:: math/physics :: engineers

>> No.11553333

>>11553325
It’s basically theoretical science vs. applied science

>> No.11553347
File: 131 KB, 1600x951, Glycolysis_metabolic_pathway_3_annotated.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11553347

me when i first saw this in class: Wow this is amazing, now I actually know what happens to sugar when you eat it!

pre-meds when they see this in class: ughhhhh do we have 2 memorize dis 4 da exam? PROFESSOR is dis gonna be on da exam??? ermagerrrdddd i h8 biochem ughhhh gonna have to pull an all-nighter we need this for the MCAT looking for study tips to cram

>> No.11553348

>>11553333
Which would be fine, but they need to write that on the tin, rather than me going in and expecting a hot bowl of theoretical math tomato, with perhaps some mention of places in the world where it's applied thrown in out of interest, and getting "mathematics for engineering" chunky chowder and recoiling because it's not what I ordered.

>> No.11553359

>>11553348
I feel you

>> No.11553367

>>11553347
it's a problem because students tend to succeed more if they can befriend like-minded peers and discuss the material with each other, which gets them more immersed in the class.

ideally, upper level chemistry classes would be full of like-minded chemistry nerds who gawk at molecules.

but the reality is that the "study groups" in chemistry classes are just bored pre-meds cheating on homework assignments and complaining about how much they hate this class.

>> No.11553371

>>11553367
>>11553347
Hey bros I'm >>11553181

Definitely share your disdain for premeds. But since I am studying humanities, I have yet to take bio chemistry, general chemistry, and organic chemistry. So far have just taken biology and anatomy. But I am wondering if you could please give any general tips on how to study/do well in these types of classes. Again I am not a STEM major and have not done actual chemistry since probably 16 or 17 so just a little apprehensive at the moment. Also because of covid 19 I don't know how the hell labs will be carried out.

>> No.11553378

>>11553371
the only way to easily do well in chemistry classes is to like it.

Organic chemistry is cool because it's about mixing together chemicals and making chemicals with cool smells.

biochemistry is cool because you learn what happens to stuff you eat.

General chemistry knowledge can help you with basic things like extracting DMT

>> No.11553395

How do you better understand organic chemistry?

>> No.11553401

Also a chem major. I can 100% sympathize with this. Fucking idiot pre-meds are often annoying. That being said, I have befriended many. It's not like they're shitty people, they just aren't as keen to study something like chem, or maybe anything at all. Their eyes are on the prize, which for them is a high paying job. For some people it's the knowledge.

>> No.11553406

>>11553378
Sorry I'm a fucking idiot I'm not >>11553181 I am >>11552721

That being said I definitely find chem interesting. But a big part of me feels insecure. I dropped out of high school and basically have not done math since the 10th grade (also a big reason why I am majoring in humanities in uni). Do you think I should brush up on pre calculus and stuff or does math even matter when it comes to first/second year university chemistry classes?

>> No.11553412

>>11553401
>Their eyes are on the prize, which for them is a high paying job

frikin lol, i feel sorry for these "disciplined young men" who go to college just to get a high paying job so they can get a hot girlfriend one day.

if your whole college career consists of 720 days, the far delayed gratification distant endgoal of "high paying job and hot girlfriend" can't easily get you day-to-day. I mean, for 720 days are you really gonna buckle down and crack your books with "i'm doing this for a hot girlfriend" at the back of your mind? That leads to procrastination and dropping out.

You have to enjoy the moment, that's the only thing that will get you day by day/

>> No.11553426

>>11553412
i also feel sorry for them because they're making themselves suffer in the pursuit of pleasure. This is exactly what the Buddhists warned us of.

Enjoy the moment, that means enjoying learning what you learn in your class today, without worrying about doing well for your future. If you enjoy the class, doing well on the test is guaranteed

>> No.11553454

>>11553412
Agreed. Seems like psychological suicide to me.

It's their life, I suppose.

>> No.11553470

>>11551259
pre-meds need to get As though, not just get through the class

>> No.11553477

>>11550765
Because there is an endless supply of smart people lining up to med school

>> No.11553984

>>11550336
Yes

>> No.11554002

>>11553406
>I dropped out of high school and basically have not done math since the 10th grade (also a big reason why I am majoring in humanities in uni). Do you think I should brush up on pre calculus and stuff or does math even matter when it comes to first/second year university chemistry classes?
As it happens I'm a 4th year chemist who never did maths at A level (not sure how that translates to US high school but it's what you do around 16-18 yo).
Yes you need maths, mainly for physical and some of inorganic chemistry. If you just do organic chemistry though you can probably get away without much maths. My university offered maths classes alongside the chemistry course so I was able to learn all the maths I needed for the physical chemistry as I went along, but not every university does that. Second year physical chemistry for us was stuff like quantum chemistry and statistical thermodynamics which was about as maths heavy as things got.
If you just do organic chemistry modules you can probably get away without doing much maths

>> No.11554020

>>11553477
it's the same in the UK but they just have tough selection criteria to get in to a medicine degree. Good grades, they'll even look at GCSE sometimes, plus they expect you to have volunteered and gotten experience in hospitals/care before you apply to show how passsionate you are about "helping people" and that's just the bear minimum.
Once you've got in to uni though that's it, you're doing medicine as long as you don't fail. Seems dumb to make them waste 4 years doing another degree first seeing as the medicine degree itself is 5 years long before you actually become a junior doctor. I mean how old is the average doctor when they actually start in the US? Must be pushing 30 in most cases.

>> No.11554150

>>11550721
I thought I was the only one

>> No.11554194

>>11550336
Yeah shitty premeds suck and memorization should get filtered out. Unfortunately the weed out classes aren't held strongly enough and they still manage to get into and through med school

>> No.11554202

Agreed that pre-meds are subhuman niggers but you still need to go back.

>> No.11554352

>>11553296
Yeah and you've studied how much higher math? If you think the pi vs tau debate is anything other than a high school math teacher fight, you're deluded.
>b-b-but muh e^i*pi + 1 = 0, those darned mathematicians are always going on about that.
Again, future highschool math teachers.
Seriously, this shit you're complaining about is literally the same as whether or not to use a skeletal diagram vs a line-bond diagram, whether to expand functional groups vs condense them, etc... It's all just minor aesthetic preferences and any expert worth their salt isn't going to get bogged down in such matters.

>> No.11554393

I finished my chem degree a few years ago. Only premeds were in the first year, then I had a bit of overlap with biochem majors up to my third year orgo.
In that class, some of the students were stressing so hard during our fist midterm that one puke all over the test then another beside her passed out and had a seizure. Paramedics came in and were doing first aid and the prof told us to just ignore it and continue while they loaded her up on a stretcher kek. Class average was like 40% and I ended up getting curved to 112%. Feels good man

>> No.11554410

Yeah it's awful. I tried to venture out of my cozy math bubble where everyone loves the subject, and take intro chemistry. What a terrible experience, dropped it within 2 weeks. The material was so fucking easy a child could do it, which I didn't mind because of course it's just the beginning of the class. What was obnoxious was the mentality of the other students. Getting themselves so fucking worked up and stressed out about simple fucking stoichiometry problems. They were all so high stress and terrible to be near. It seemed like they all hated school.
Well, I realized in the fall they offer an intro gen chem class specifically for chem majors which covers the material twice as fast and is not required at all for any of the premeds. So I'll be trying that next semester, hopefully it's more fun.

>> No.11554413

>>11554393
How do people get so stressed out a single midterm?

>> No.11554422

>>11554413
No idea man, I can only assume they were premeds, but it was a big class, maybe 150 people, and only about 10 chem majors so I doubt they were all trying to get into med school.
To be fair, it was top 3 hardest exams I wrote, but still. Just take the F and move on with your life is how I look at it.

>> No.11554433

>>11554352
it's just a personality type to care about these silly distinctions. tabs vs spaces, affect vs effect, conventional current flowing opposite to electrons, I could list an example in every corner of the human experience.

If you care about the purity of a subject as described to a new student, you will probably have opinions. Obviously it's no bother to an expert who has long since internalized the idiosyncrasies of the field, but such an expert may still have an opinion when it comes to "how it should be in a perfect world".

>> No.11554713
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11554713

>>11550341
I am having a lot of trouble with organic chemistry, specially with Pd chemistry and pericyclic reactions. What books would you recommend to study these topics?

>> No.11554808

>>11554713
not that guy but what is it you're having trouble with specifically?
I don't know of any specific books as I never really used any when I was studying that, just lecture notes mainly, but I might be able to offer advice

>> No.11554836

>>11554808
Mainly understanding the factors that influence the mechanisms and result in the numerous exceptions for each mechanism. I feel that I lack the understanding to be able to predict products when doing practice problems. I am currently using Organic Chemistry by Clyden.

>> No.11554900

>>11554836
Yeah clyden is the book I have, never used it much though
>I feel that I lack the understanding to be able to predict products when doing practice problems
I assume we're talking about the palladium stuff here?
When I was studying that as part of organic chemistry to be honest there were probably 3 or 4 different reactions we had to learn the cycles for (sonogashira, suzuki, heck are the ones I remember). For those I'd say it's probably worth just memorising the cycles as they are quite common. It should be too hard to do as long as you understand the individual steps (RE, OA ect,) as most of the time these sorts of reactions follow a similar pattern. Start at Pd 0, then you get an OA, some kind of insertion, transmettallation, ligand exchange in between, and then finish with an RE.
Predicting the outcomes of these reactions without ever having seen the catalyst or reagents before is tricky and not something that was required of us, so I'd say your best bet is to just learn to recognise the reaction. I.e aromatic halide and boronic acid with palladium is a suzuki reaction.
What is important though is that you're able to recognise when something can oxidatively add or reductively eliminate (for example). This comes down more to your inorganic knowledge, stuff like the 18 electron rule and knowing the oxidation states of the metal and ligands.

>> No.11554944

>>11554713
>What is important though is that you're able to recognise when something can oxidatively add or reductively eliminate (for example). This comes down more to your inorganic knowledge, stuff like the 18 electron rule and knowing the oxidation states of the metal and ligands.
I'll expand on this point using the image you posted. If you look at the start you can see a four coordinate sq planar, +2 OS, d8, 16 electron species (stable). You've got your alkene which can then undergo oxidative addition to form an 18 electron octahedral species in the +4 OS (stable due to 18 electron rule).

>> No.11554957

>>11554836
Pd(0) oxidatively adds into an Ar-X bond, then a carbanion/electron donor coordinates to Pd and reductively eliminates. Ox. Add'n -> Red. Elim, that's all that matters. Heck, Suzuki, Negishi and Sonogashira are most common.

There isn't really an easy way to predict them from fundamentals, so just review these lists
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-coupling_reaction#Carbon-carbon_cross-coupling
and take the cycle for granted.

>> No.11554964

>>11550845
LOL

>> No.11555047

>>11554900
I really was not expecting a response as helpful as this one. Many thanks, anon!

>> No.11555128

Might be a good place to ask this.
How much do I need to know for chem undergrad? I’ve done a lot of self study while catching up on math in uni. Currently reading about Ethers in Klein’s Organic Chemistry and slowly dipping my way into quantum. What all should I know for upper division courses? Currently only at a CC wait to transfer to a 4 year.

>> No.11555340

>>11553406

>a big part of me feels insecure

No offence but you made that clear in >>11552721

Brush up on pre-calc algebra, then follow up and learn basic calc, all as a part of your journey as a well-rounded logician in general.

>> No.11555658

>>11554713
The Organometallic Chemistry of the Transition Metals or Foundamentals of Organometallic Catalysis are books where u really go a little deeper on the inorganic chem and mechanism of this type of catalyst. it's a grad book , these kind of topics need a good knowledge both on inorganic and organic topics. for now u should stick with what the other anon said and do lot of excercise, u'll start to build an intuition

>> No.11555715

>>11550336
Glycolysis takes like 5 minutes to memorize what’s the problem? Slap on the phosphorus cut it in half and take it back and bam energy. All the enzymes are named for what they do. Literally easiest A of my life. Fuck you retard OP

-doctor

Ps: fuck pre-meds and mes students and doctors most are just women wanting attention or men who have been feminized enough to be chasing status

>> No.11555832
File: 9 KB, 327x154, genuine interest!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11555832

>>11555715
exactly! their are so many women and feminized men who go into medicine for money and social status.

most people aren't even interested in learning new things they just want that really gay and rich status.

this applies to all fields, guys all fields there are loads of people who have no interest in learning anything all they care about is money and status.

the most genuine and interesting people are studying in fields that require a genuine interest and lifelong devotion to learning.

I think people at the top of theoretical physics and even philosophy are the ones with a strong GENUINE INTEREST.

the biggest geniuses in history didn't discover relativity or gravitation in order to get money or status all they wanted was to pursue their passion.

When i finished high school and began studying chemistry it was the best time in my entire life, it is extremely sad because I have terminal dementia.

at first I studied chemistry I wanted to show everyone I wasn't so dumb, but then I became so captivated by the professors that I fell in love with physics and the science of understanding our world.

I don't care about money because I am terminally ill I study in college as a hobby in order to understand the beauty of our world

>> No.11555843

>>11550336
I feel that. When I was in school for software engineering it seemed like 90% of the students were CS rejects who just wanted their degree and then leave to work for a FAGMAN company.

>> No.11555887

>>11554352
It's still annoying and gay no matter what way you slice it.

>> No.11555894

>>11550336
Bong medic here. My first 2 years were allegedly more scientific and understanding-oriented than a standard medical pre-clinical course (Cambridge uni). Once I hit my 3rd year (pure science neurosci as per my choice), I realised how much rote learning was in medicine. I feel sorry for people on other medical courses.
This also explains why doctors I encounter with other educational backgrounds hardly understand medical evidence and approaches taken, and just accept/dismiss abstracts. Some doctors are brilliant and insightful, but a lot more these days are just glorified algorithms with substance addictions.

>> No.11555897

>>11550336
Yeah chemistry sucks and you're going to get nowhere in that field.
Do computational/theoretical chem instead.
Or switch to math like Von Neumann did.

>> No.11555907

>>11550714
>constantly resisting the urge to cook drugs and bombs
uh... based department!?

>> No.11555913

>>11550336

Fuck them, you will be good at your stuff because you don´t study, you learn and you will be a well paid graduate while they will be struggling and won´t know how to do something because they just passed exams like kids in elementary school.

>> No.11555918

about normies going to college to get a job: understandable. i would study music, but i'd starve if i did that. i like philosophy and physics anyways, but i don't have a passion for it.

about the "ugh this sucks" attitude: it's retarded, but you'll have to deal with it, there's no way around dealing with normalfags. just don't rage, they could help you in something later on. move on. talk to other people (talk to much people as you can, separate the cattle from the go-getters)

>> No.11555943

>>11555918
I have terminal dementia and my lab partners were so lame and depressed they don’t even care about science at all just want the degree.

I did all the work for them and the professor could see that everything was left for me to finish.

I think I was one of the few students with an A.

>> No.11555971

>>11555897
I know plenty of companies hiring people with chemistry majors.

>> No.11556151

My memory feels trashed. Does anyone know why is this and how can I fix it?

>> No.11556189

>>11550714
this isn’t even reddit tier

>> No.11556554

What are all the chem majors doing with their degree? I finished mine and could only get a job in a warehouse doing thousands of FID analysis on rock samples. I quit and became a software fag

>> No.11556576

>>11550336
You shouldn't ever be med out of necessity of having a job and having a disrespect to chemistry is wrongest thing that can doctor have to be a doctor.

Honestly the people that want to go meds and doesn't want biochem, you shouldn't go for meds.

Also if you choose some path in life, and things around them sucks, you should walk different path. Period.

There is no thing: Daddy wants me to be a doctor so I'm going to suck at it. Necessary in the medicine.

>> No.11556597

>>11556554
>What are all the chem majors doing with their degree?

I do a chemistry hobby at home.

I'm a junior haven't graduated yet, and i'm unsure about the future. I'm in Dallas which is a crappy area for chemistry, no internships. Might just get a manager position in retail or fast food, since any bachelors degree will qualify you for it and get you respect.

>> No.11556599

>>11550336
What the fuck are you complaining about? You're all about understanding and marveling at the subject but don't want to cram and want to play smash bros? You're just an inferior student.

>> No.11556611

>>11550336
>>11550758
>>11551535
>>11553367
>>11553378
>>11553412
>>11553426
>>11553454
>>11554433
>>11554957
>>11555340
>>11555715
>>11555832
>>11555918
>>11555943
>>11556576
>>11556597
Your formatting is embarrassing, and even more so is the fact that you didn't bother changing it while you were talking to yourself.

>> No.11556697

>>11556611
but the most embarrassing thing is that

your newfag ass

doesn't know how read use the unique posters number.

>> No.11556941

Lmao anyone complaining about general chem will be filtered soon enough

>>11550341
Ochem sucks cocks, chemistry and biochemistry are great

>> No.11557018

>>11556554
Got offered a job at a pharma company, but then this coronavirus shit kicked off so I don't know if or when I'll be starting that

>> No.11557023

>>11557018
That's with a masters by the way, if you want to actually work in chemistry then a bachelors isn't enough really you need a masters at least
bSc is for those who want a degree in science but then go to work in something else like finance

>> No.11557075

>>11556697
>Unique poster number

>> No.11557146

>>11550336
Just relax a bit and write 30% of your notes anon, rest for a week

>> No.11557222

>>11550336
>I mean if I did a reddit search
Why don't you also do a Google search for how to tie a noose while you're at it.

>> No.11557474

You should too, welcome to reality bitch, you will NEVER need any of that shit, study to get a job to get money, THAT is the reality we live in not your nature full of wonders, that time has passed. Also stop wasting your time watching concepts and videos you dont understand and fucking learn for your exams, you (with very high probability ) loser.

>> No.11557499

>>11557474
School is incredibly easy if you care about what you're learning. It's only hard and frustrating and stressful if your goal is mismatched with the activity. Why not have your cake and eat it too?

>> No.11557524

>>11557474
I can tell already that you're just going to be the best little wagie for about 15 years until you hit that midlife crisis, realize you wasted your youth chasing what nepotism and corruption are required to achieve, and start having a cringy breakdown where you buy a motorcycle you'll never ride or some shit before finally coming to terms with the fact that you've dug yourself into a hole of obscurity.

>> No.11557579

>>11550336
and what noble cause do you intend to pursue with your degree faggot?

>> No.11557582

>>11557023
a bachelors can be enough but options are limited. your best shot is getting an R&D or plant chemist job at a smaller or more rural business. ones that struggle to attract talent due to being in a shit city

i got a "real" chemist job in R&D about 6 mo out of college. Though i worked as a lab tech fulltime for all 6 years of college. feels weird driving projects that consume millions of dollars a years in raw materials. but at end of the day it provides no fulfilment and I feel like I do nothing but make the top dogs money and damage the environment.

>> No.11557639

>>11557582
Or, go to university and major in something because it's interesting and you can use it for hobbies. The reason it's so hard to find a job with a bachelors degree is because bachelors degrees literally aren't job training.

chemistry is useful to know in daily life, and deepens your understanding of how the universe works, but it's not good for career and money and social status and that gross stuff.

having any bachelors degree will help you get a managerial position in retail and fast food

>> No.11557659

>>11556554
Chem teacher. It’s a fun job.

>> No.11558552

>>11556554
Sustainable energy consultant for a while, NEET now.

>> No.11558608

>>11550341
I fucking love organic chemistry as well. Literally the only people I've heard bitch about it are premeds who just blindly memorize instead of taking the time to think about a concept and creatively apply it.

>> No.11558918

>>11553347
This looks scary to me like I could never get an intuitive understanding of it or at the very least memorize it. Should I just give up now? I'm in gen chem III right now.

>> No.11558953
File: 502 KB, 898x632, 1584216993495.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11558953

>>11550336
I feel the same way about genetics.

I just want to read about population genetics because it's interesting, but instead I find hordes of wiggers wewuzzing and LARPing as "hurr aryans" or "we wuz siberians" and altogether ignoring reality.

anyway shit thread, shit OP, don't care plus you're white

>> No.11559492

>>11550336
So fucking tired of seeing pajeet faces, why don't those fuckers die already?

>> No.11559679

>>11559492
you knoa there's a more actionable solution to your distaste for seeing pajeet faces. I recommend you implement it.

>> No.11560072

>>11554020
doesn't the UK have grad entry as well?
grad entry is a monumental clusterfuck. it's the most hypercompetitive thing i was ever involved in here in Australia. you do an exam that goes for 7 hours, and a good score is one that puts in the top 1% or higher. literally the top 1% is considered a good score.

>> No.11560284

>>11550336
Not pre-med, but here's my perspective on Chemistry as a Horticulture major (plant science. Basically applied botany). Imagine that you're forced to take this hard class that has almost nothing to do with your major. You're only taking it because your university has it as a prerequisite that you need to pass before you're allowed to take Hydroponics, Plant Physiology and Soils, all three of which are classes with topics that you're really interested in learning about and that actually relate to your major. That's what Chemistry was like for me. I'm glad that you're passionate about Chemistry, anon. The world absolutely needs chemists. But not all of us are suited to it like you are.

>> No.11560440

>>11559492
>why don't these fuckers die already?
Well anon, you see...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_reproduction

>> No.11560448

Chembros, I'm learning the table of elements by myself for fun, to prepare for getting deeper into chemistry, and maybe for a later academic use. I'm learning
>name
>symbol
>group, i.e. alkali metal, halogen, etc and the properties of those groups
>location on the periodic table
What else should I learn about the elements at this level?

>> No.11560477

>>11560448
to be honest in terms of practical usage there isn't much point memorising the periodic table, there is a reason the table exists and that's so you don't have to remember it all
What you should learn about though is stuff like periodic trends. How things like atomic radius, electronegativity, ionisation energy change as you go across or down the table. Once you understand this then that gives you the background you need to understand individual properties of elements in more detail.

>> No.11560490

>>11550765
You can become a paramedic or nurse without getting a bachelor's degree (or only a bachelor's) I believe. I agree that it's strange that we spend spend 2 years doing shit that you should have learned in high school though just to "make you well rounded". Then again the US has some of the best medical care you can receive as long as you're able to pay for it of course.

>> No.11560520

>>11560477
Thanks and checked. I'll refocus my study.

>> No.11560538

premeds are just aids people

>> No.11560539

>>11560538
true

>> No.11561713

>>11550341
Good advice, haha.

>> No.11561768

>>11558918
For biochemistry lectures, there is a lot of memorization you will have to do if the course is designed to get you to learn metabolic pathways- this is the shitty truth. That being said, there is a lot of intuition that can be gained in the logic of said pathways- good biochemistry textbooks will outline the logic of biochemical energetics that can paint your study of these pathways while you, unfortunately, have to memorize their steps.

>> No.11561781

>>11550341
Ochem is cool.

But you are really huffing some wild shit if you think ochem is somehow a term only used by people who hate it. The lab next to mine is nothing but ochem and that's all they call it.

>> No.11561802

>>11553301
Depends on the teacher of the class. My biochem professor in undergrad had a hard on for enzyme reaction mechanisms. He would state the reactants and the enzyme in plain english and then have us draw out the entire thing from start to finish.

He always said that as long as it made physical sense he would accept it. Except no one ever managed to get any points from the fucker unless they copied the exact mechanism he preferred from the book/slide/internet link he posted.

We had over 45 mechanisms that could have been on the first semester final exam. Not including the other piles of bullshit he laid on us. We had less than a week to learn, internalize, and understand glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, and the phosphate pyruvate cycle before our final exam (with each step being fair game for a reaction mechanism question). There was literally no way to do that without memorizing oodles of bullshit.

Some professors teach good classes, some bad. The bad ones require memorization out the ass.

>> No.11561846

>>11560448
Spend some time learning about orbitals and how the periodic trends like this guy >>11560477 said influence the energies/stabilities of these orbitals. After feeling comfortable with these ideas, I strongly encourage you to investigate the subject of chemical bonding from a frontier molecular orbital perspective. These ideas more than any other will be fundamental in any of your later studies of chemistry- this approach to learning about chemistry is qualitative but will help paint a picture for you if you move on to pursue organic chemistry or biochemistry. If you become interested in more quantitative chemistry like physical/biophysical chemistry then this qualitative picture of bonding may assist you in honing a more specific, quantitative picture of what equations are describing and understanding how the simplified models that are preached in these fields connect to real-world chemical systems you would have, at that point, become somewhat familiar with. The textbook that I learned MO theory from for my inorganic chemistry course was titled "Inorganic Chemistry" by Miessler and Tarr. This textbook features many equations that, at the time, I was intimidated by but should be interpreted as guidelines to illustrate proportionality of different variables (For example, there is a scary-looking equation that illustrates that as orbital energy disparity increases, the bonding overlap between them decreases- the formulation is unimportant for learning about MO theory and only the conclusion is relevant for a qualitative investigation). Some of the sections that delve deep into group theoretical treatment may also be quite intimidating if you are like me and have never learned linear algebra- try not to let this discourage you as the ideas of molecular symmetry motivated by these topics is a great tool to have in your study of chemistry!

>> No.11561942

>>11557524
Maybe. But if I would've gone the scientist way I would be a slave of my job, have to move from place to place, look for a grant every time money runs out, lick ass just to get some more prestige and all of that for what? 50k starting and 140k ending? Fuck no. I like science but I'm not gonna throw my life away for this corrupted system. I'd rather have an education that can always net me a job, is based on scientific findings, and doesnt make a career slave, you can be pretty comfy as a lazy medical doctor but you can't as a scientist.

>> No.11561947

>>11561942
Theres a reason why many stem majors switch to medicine (atleast here in europe)...
Life as a scientist is different nowadays, I don't wanna live by publiush or perish and I dont want to work 20 years straight, I want to take breaks from my career and thats just not possible if you wanna remain relevant as a scientist.

>> No.11562142

Here we don't have shit like premed or anything, it's just a really tough exam you can take every year but usually you pass after 2-3 years of studying all day. But you go directly into med school which is 6 years here. I really like organic chemistry, biochem and stuff like cytology so I thought I should become a doctor. In fact I want to do research and I'm studying Japanese to start grad school there. I'm gonna work here (i'm from the third world) for an year or so to get some money then I'll try MEXT postgrad. It's a shame I want the worst degree to move there but I think it's what I'll enjoy the most, so whatever. I really hate the people that want to do med for money and status though, but at least there won't be too much competition for grad and research.

>> No.11562160

>>11560448
origin of its name. i reccomend the book Periodic Tales

>> No.11562168

>>11562142
If you hate people with a grip on reality then you might reconsider your position in life...

Seriously people you are all talking about doing what you love but has anyone here have even the slightest clue of what it is to be a scientist? Its not that interesting at all, I mean learning the stuff, yes for sure really one of the best things in life, but actually working in science is shit in academia atleast. And if you actually get into the industry then kudos to you but it's too unsure of a path to take for someone whos not 19 anymore.

>> No.11562175

>>11562168
Also, who knows, why is everyone so sure here they will get ajob from a stem degree? The market is oversaturated, and no there is NOT tons of money pouring into new research, big companies are just promoting that idea so they can actually choose between the candidates, and you know how they choose? Based on age, marks, and relevancy of previous research for their specific cause, you can't be a general chemsit and everyone wants you, thats not how it works and thats what pisses me off about this branche, you end up specializing so much that you become enslaved to your topic or niche.

>> No.11562178

>>11562175
But then again, I agree with the fact that premeds who don't enjoy the basis of their prfoession which is pure science should fuck themselves.
A good MD is a nerd for chemistry, biochem, biology(cytology) and in my opinion even physics and mathematics.

>> No.11562255

>>11562178
Unfortunately, I'd stress that a good MD should also be compassionate and empathetic. Traits which correlate negatively with the above. Everone here is right that money/status corrupts the profession very heavily though.

>> No.11562257

>>11562175
I totally understand it, but if they want a job right out of school they shouldn't be doing pure science.
I'm >>11562168 and I didn't express myself correctly. What I actually mean is that I hate people who take studying as grinding for exams and don't give a shit about actually learning. I'm not in med school yet but I was in college for a STEM major though dropped out and unfortunately there were people like that.
The only STEM major with a good probability of getting a job right out of school if you do everything right (internship, contacts) is engineering (and CS if it's considered STEM). You can obviously get a job as a pure mathematician but you'll be doing stuff unrelated to your degree.

>> No.11562264

>>11550336
I teach a statistics class for "life science majors" which is a substitute course for calculus.

About half or more of my students are premeds who have terrible math skills and do nothing but complain about how hard/unfair things are despite how basic and easy I've made it for them.

I actually had a student last year who was CURRENTLY IN med school and having trouble applying the concepts. Mind you its basics, expected value, variance, the common distributions and what their CDFs are, easy shit.

>> No.11562278

>>11562257
Man I'm just a burnt kid with a broken dream, why am I even arguing here...
Started with biochemistry, didnt take it serious enough and failed, then went on to biomedical with the idea to take many math and cs classes in order to merge into biomedical engineering, turns out thats impossible to get a job with a biomed focused BME degree, you are either ME or EE or you don't get a BME job, which is mostly just fucking building boring artery baloons... (I hoped for something along the lines of bioelectronics but thats too far in the future to be relevant right now) .

All of that plus realizing that science is not as noble as I thought (P&P, corrupt academia, being a labrat etc) and that I will never bank with a half assed curriculum in science led me to me to actual medical school. Which I thoroughly enjoy (the learning part of it atleast) but my passion would've been to work with EEs and material scientists on artificial neurons or biochips in an R&D department

>> No.11562286

>>11562264
I hate the med community for their lack of love for mathematics and other hard sciences, it's like the only thing they like doing is memorization , no wonder so many women are in the field.

>> No.11562287

>>11562264
you literally need like Year 9 (8th? Grade) maths for medicine unless you are going into something specialised that requires it.

>> No.11562338

>>11562287
being equipped to competently deal with and understand statistical testing, biases, expectation, inference, are all things I hope every MD has. My mostly-useless GP certainly does not, and it shows.

>> No.11562393

>>11550336
Chemist here. I support a genocide of pre-meds. They ask annoying questions all the time like "WILL THIS AFFECT MY GRADE?" and are generally fucking insufferable

>> No.11562719

>>11562338
I've had so many different doctors and they have all been astoundingly stupid. I cannot believe it.

>> No.11563050

>>11555832
godspeed anon

>> No.11563094

>>11550336
Had a similar experience in my physics major with the "Sustainable Development" majors (tree hugger hippies).
The class was about energy sources and basically it was a waste of time because we couldn't go beyond calculating consumption rates and cost per kWh.
Even those basic math things made those guys heads explode. There were even people crying on the exams.

>> No.11563184

>>11551493
Nah, even with pharmacy schools you must do an undergrad first and take pre-pharm courses and only after that apply for a doctor of pharmacy degree. For some bullshit reason it's the same with physical therapy and optometry too, even though those are three year bachelor's degrees everywhere else in the world

>> No.11563219
File: 78 KB, 1661x639, nicetryschizo1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11563219

>>11556611
Nice try, schizo

>> No.11564032

99.9% chance you are brazilian. Vestibular é uma merda!

>> No.11565156
File: 184 KB, 969x830, lddit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11565156

Who the fuck of you did this?

>> No.11566303

>>11550336
I think people just want a good career

>> No.11566718

>>11565156
What are YOU doing lurking reddit?