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# /sci/ - Science & Math

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/sci ... is this true or woo?

There is a principle in physics that states that any event that is not prohibited by the laws of physics should happen! What, then, happens to the pendulum? All the points on it behave the same way; therefore, all of it must for a tiny fraction of a second move at infinite velocity. Can a physical object move faster than the velocity of light?

Let us approach this from a different angle. We have heard about Heisenberg’s principle of uncertainty. This principle states that in trying to measure two parameters of a particle—for instance, its momentum and its position—we find that the more accurately we can measure its momentum, the less we can know about its position, and vice versa. (Momentum simply means: mass x velocity.)

If we want to measure either the momentum or the position of a particle, we can measure precisely only one of these quantities. If we know the exact momentum of a particle, then its position is completely indefinite or unknowable, and vice versa. This is an example of those strange ways in which particles of atomic size or smaller behave.

 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 18:48:32 2020 No.11516436 Cont:We know that at rest, when the pendulum is changing direction, its velocity is zero. But the momentum, at low speeds at least, is equal to velocity multiplied by mass. However, if we multiply any quantity by a zero, we get zero. Thus, we have now established that the momentum of the pendulum at that point is zero, that is, we know its value very precisely: It’s zero. But we have said before that if we know precisely the momentum of a particle, then its position becomes diffuse and completely indefinite. That is, the pendulum can be just about any place, even at the end of the universe. Yes, but it has very little time to get there because this whole event occurs in zero time. So there we go again. The pendulum has to disappear in all directions at infinite velocity. It will have to expand very rapidly into space, like a balloon, and then collapse just as rapidly.- Having done this, it comes back, picks up speed, and goes about its usual good-natured business as if nothing had happened. None of us would suspect the leisurely pendulum of doing such a wild thing when no one is looking! But then again, one cannot rely on appearances.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 18:48:48 2020 No.11516438 >>11516428Read a book on mechanics.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 18:50:59 2020 No.11516443 >>11516428You mean zero velocity? Brainlet.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 18:53:49 2020 No.11516451 Yes, but the infinite velocity has to be paid back (In the same way the energy in the creation of two virtual particles), but the infinite energy from the infinite velocity creates a black hole on the other side of the universe
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 19:03:36 2020 No.11516470 >>11516428Did you even look at the scale of the measurements required for this to be relevant? The product of the standard deviations of momentum and position need to be greater than or equal to h-bar divided by two. That’s absurdly tiny, and you won’t ever be measuring the position or velocity of a pendulum anywhere near that degree of uncertainty.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 19:18:39 2020 No.11516494 >>11516470It’s from Itzhak Bentov‘s book. A scientist/thinker cut from a different ilk than most no-imagination, no-balls, careerist, two-bit, cunts working today.Itzhak "Ben" Bentov was a Czechoslovakia-born Israeli American scientist, inventor, mystic and author. His many inventions, including the steerable cardiac catheter, helped pioneer the biomedical engineering industry.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 19:21:22 2020 No.11516499 Logically this just means that the Universe is not structured on infinitesimals.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 19:55:22 2020 No.11516555 File: 210 KB, 640x640, 1575939879272.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] No, they dont.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 19:59:30 2020 No.11516561 >>11516428>any event that is not prohibited by the laws of physics should happenWhat a dumb fuck fucking statement. Why didn’t I fuck Kim kardashian in her prime then?
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 20:03:12 2020 No.11516569 File: 66 KB, 600x1147, wtf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11516428
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 20:08:38 2020 No.11516578 >A finite non-zero mass with finite energy,>spontaneously gains an effectively infinite amount of energy,>then loses it.
 >> Anonymous Mon Mar 30 22:10:26 2020 No.11516843 File: 581 KB, 1009x1130, 463A3797-15BF-465C-B41E-E73BF27E856A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] In every second infinity
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 11:04:57 2020 No.11518218 File: 65 KB, 440x292, 1B721009-DB04-4612-97B7-6E3625EE997D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11516428Why stop at pendulum's? Surely this 'principle' can be applied to anything that changes direction...Don't make the error of saying a pendulum changes direction instantly.Right now I'm swinging my foot. So how does it feel to have my foot up your ass?
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 12:49:06 2020 No.11518420 >>11518218>>11516555>>11516561>>11516443>>11516438midwits exposing themselves here, nothing new under the sun... for you fragile shells
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 13:11:52 2020 No.11518469 File: 1.36 MB, 1440x810, 1560728344589.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11518420You're either really high or really arrogantOr both
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 13:28:28 2020 No.11518524 >>11516428>>11516436So I'm actually a brainlet, so maybe someone could help me understand this statement.Is the preposition implying that at the moment where the pendulum reaches the peak of it's arc it has no velocity and then suddenly gains velocity in the opposite direction of it's previous velocity vector? Or however you want to term it.So at that point the argument is that if you look at it for an infinitesimally small amount of time at which it's motion start then it's moving at an infinite velocity?Am I getting the argument right?
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 17:47:50 2020 No.11519269 >>11518524>Am I getting the argument right?No.I don't know if you are dumb or a schizo, but look. Imagine something has infinite velocity. You look at it at position x=0 and time t=0 and then again some time instant t=dt (finite)after that. Where is it in the next time instant? X=?
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:03:02 2020 No.11519706 >>11519269>I don't know if you are dumb or a schizoNah, I'm just dumb.>You look at it at position x=0 and time t=0 and then again some time instant t=dt (finite)after that. Where is it in the next time instant? X=?It's at a specified location, yea. I generally think that's the intuitive answer, but I'm trying to understand the premise that OP is setting up and how that equals infinite velocity.Does it have something to do with there being a potential minimum unit of time? Like, hypothetically assuming that there could be a minimum unit of time while assuming that position and velocity can be considered "measurable" between those units of time, couldn't there be a point where an object is moving "between" those time units and as such would possess infinite velocity right at the moment of change in direction before time increments?Though come to think of it, wouldn't that just make the velocity undefined anyway, and not necessarily infinite? Since it would mean that X>0 while T=0 and X/0=[Undefined]...Again, humor me, I'm just stupid and trying to understand what is probably just a shitpost thread.
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:06:54 2020 No.11519714 >>11516428Wtf? No. Why would it be?
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:20:44 2020 No.11519765 File: 38 KB, 678x525, 1521320264293.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11516428>>11516436Yeah, this is correct.
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:21:46 2020 No.11519771 >>11516561Because you're a quantum incel
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:29:17 2020 No.11519792 >>11516436We are not certain when exactly the pendulum is at rest, due to HUP.
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:19:34 2020 No.11519930 >>11519269That's true, but how the fuck does it apply to pendulums? They experience 0 velocity at the apex of their arc
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:25:43 2020 No.11519953 >>11519269Oh yeah and how the fuck do you manage to observe it at x=0 and t=0 you stupid cuntI'd like to see you time the exact instant when the momentum is zero as your brain collapses like the infinitesimal quantum particle it is because of the sheer stupidity of your retarded thread
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:26:04 2020 No.11519955 >>11519930The idea is that since we know exactly what the velocity is (0) we must have no idea what the position is because of Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:30:29 2020 No.11519974 >>11519955Not no ideaBut an uncertain idea of itBut since the masses here are very big, the uncertainty is ridiculously lowGood luck finding instruments that can go beyond that uncertainty
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:31:32 2020 No.11519978 >>11519974/thread
 >> Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:50:47 2020 No.11520012 >>11516428>There is a principle in physics that states that any event that is not prohibited by the laws of physics should happen! No, you can use a simple diagonalization argument to disprove that.
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 02:59:07 2020 No.11520833 >>11516428take the derivative you schizo, it's clearly not infinity.
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 04:52:52 2020 No.11521323   >>11521314No it doesn't. They have the same priority, and that means you have to go from left to right.8 / 2 * (2 + 2)8 / 2 * 44 * 416
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 04:53:18 2020 No.11521324 are you fucking serious
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 08:20:11 2020 No.11521860 >>11519955But that's a totally separate argument.Infinite velocity means they can be everywhere.0 velocity means they can be everywhere.Which are you going with?
 >> An̕o̡̧ny̵҉m̨̨ǫ̛͠us Wed Apr 1 08:32:57 2020 No.11521895 *COOF*
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 08:38:03 2020 No.11521913 >>11516436Between the moment it is rising and falling the pendulum effectively enters a state of quantum superposition, or rather its particles do in very short succession. A particular particle in question no longer possesses any tangible details that might be familiar to us in science, a specific location (relative to a theoretical fully stationary observer), time, mass, kinetic/potential energy and so on and so on, rather the object can only be defined by where it is absent and as it cannot be fully absent everywhere all the time it must be modelled as a probability density of "where" it is most likely to exist, "where" being in quotes of course since it is a placeholder for the various attributes both known and unknown to science, it is an oversimplification for explanation purposes. This is not a full solution, just a model. The size of the problem now facing us is effectively quadrupled, as explained by Donald Rumsfeld.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQukAccording to the philosophy of science, Donald Rumsfeld's popularization of the concept makes him the appropriate prime observer, a single point of reference enabling us to make relative comparisons with every entity in the universe. Of course if someone else was made aware of the concept before Donald Rumsfeld the teacher or author of some book becomes their prime observer, but for the most part it is DR.
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 08:43:57 2020 No.11521934 >>11516428The larger an object is, the smaller the quantum scale of its behavior as a whole. A visible pendulum might as well be the entire earth in terms of quantum theory.Quantum is not an add-on to the Newtonian physics of movement so you can't say "it's everywhere" or "it's moving at infinite velocity" as if "everywhere" and "velocity" mean what you're used to them meaning.
 >> A̶̛͠nòn̴ym̵o̡͢ù̡s Wed Apr 1 08:51:25 2020 No.11521946 CLAIM: the entire universe is moving faster than the speed of light to ensure the flow of time continues
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 08:53:19 2020 No.11521955 >>11521946I want the coof
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 09:28:19 2020 No.11522042 >>11521946Moving in relation to what?
 >> A̧n͢ǫny̶̷m̧o͜u̴͘ş Wed Apr 1 10:26:40 2020 No.11522206 >>11522042other universes obviously
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 10:39:31 2020 No.11522244   >>11522225Sweet, looks like my phone was clear. I'll check in periodically to track it.Also any healthy Anon want to reply to this post if I'm still clean? And don't reply to any other infected users. That way we can track whether we're contagious before symptoms
 >> A͠n̨͞on̷̕͠y̨m̀ou͟s͏ Wed Apr 1 10:39:51 2020 No.11522245 >>11522206>>11521946Source ?
 >> A͜n̡͏o͟n҉̢y̢͢m̷ous͡ Wed Apr 1 11:36:02 2020 No.11522459 >>11522245"universal speed limit" is just to stop the universe from slowing down and time stopping
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 17:29:00 2020 No.11523814 nop
 >> Anonymous Wed Apr 1 18:07:34 2020 No.11523984 >>11519706Eh, sorry I thought you were op. It's definitely not infinite, since then X would be infinite too. That is not possible for pendulums.>>11519930How does them having 0 velocity at some point make my point invalid?>>11519953t is obviously arbitrary fucking retard. And I'm not OP you piece of shit. You measure it somehow, then start the timer. I can't believe people as dumb as you are on forums related to science.
 >> Anonymous Thu Apr 2 03:36:47 2020 No.11525262 Is this whole thread just based on the premise of "I don't understand how acceleration works"?
 >> Anonymous Thu Apr 2 10:02:12 2020 No.11525869 Is this whole thread just based >>11525262YES
 >> Anonymous Thu Apr 2 10:12:17 2020 No.11525895 >>11516436>the entire universe dissapears when my back is turned
 >> Anonymous Thu Apr 2 19:38:31 2020 No.11527382 >>11525895kek. Yeah, this.
 >> Anonymous Thu Apr 2 23:30:11 2020 No.11527913 >>11518420Read a book on mechanics.
 >> Anonymous Fri Apr 3 09:35:59 2020 No.11529129 File: 361 KB, 540x405, 05741215688b0bf13ab3c1985e4b7f70d743d61d.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11525869
 >> Anonymous Fri Apr 3 09:50:25 2020 No.11529176 If it were, at any time, accelerating infinitely or had infinite velocity, then it would, in that time, have travelled infinitely far which is not demonstrable by any experiment. These are the kinds of problems you encounter when you deal in infinitesimals unquestioningly.
 >> Anonymous Fri Apr 3 20:07:47 2020 No.11530747 >>11516494> t. Itzhak
 >> Anonymous Fri Apr 3 20:40:30 2020 No.11530842 >>11516428>>11516436Yeah, this is bullcrap from beginning to end.I heartily would accept the pre-transistor standard of living if it meant that no QM would've been invented and these kinds of cranks wouldn't have the "spooky uncertainty principle" as an element in their convoluted conjectures.
 >> Anonymous Fri Apr 3 22:15:30 2020 No.11531037 >>11530842it's ok for you to fear the unknown, but to start calling intellects far more advanced than yours cranks and convoluted is the tell-tale sign of bitch-ass-ness that permeates careerist scientismists of today that are the stagnation enablers