/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11451877]

Give me 1 reason why this wouldn't work.

[Anonymous No.11451882]

How does this "one-way seal" work?

[Anonymous No.11451899]

>>11451877
>Give me 1 reason why this wouldn't work.
The burden of proof is on you.

[Anonymous No.11451910]

>>11451899
Fuck it, I'll build it right now. Nobel price here we come.

[Anonymous No.11451913]

How much force does it take for the ball to push through the "one way seal"?

[Anonymous No.11451931]

>>11451877
because of the se.... oh wait.

because of the ai.... oh wait

because of the wat....

wait this should actually work

[Anonymous No.11451939]

>>11451910
Nobel prize? Aren't you more interested in the literal trillions of dollars that will flow your way as your bar napkin sketch replaces the entire energy industry?

[Anonymous No.11451950]

pulling the ball through the hypothetical one way seal would require just as much energy as pushing a ball from the top the water to the bottom

[Anonymous No.11451951]

>>11451877
I'm sure someone can give you the physics for why, but your one-way valve is the problem. Consider one big inner tube instead of your belt with buoyant balls. This would make the seal possible as a simple cylindrical opening in the bottom of the tank. But then you have no buoyant force of water under each ball and the inner tube doesn't move.

[Anonymous No.11451968]

There isn't enough force from the air in the RH balls in the water to push them up whilst simultaneously pulling the LH balls down and turning the pulleys and belt.

[Nussi No.11451993]

>>11451877
Am no scientist, but how exactly does a one way seal work.

[Anonymous No.11452002]

>>11451877
The laws of thermodynamics (particularly 1 and 2).

[Anonymous No.11452006]

the ball below the seal has to push through all the weight of the water in the tank to get in there, which is going to take quite a lot of force. that alone will probably make this impossible.

[Anonymous No.11452007]

>>11452002
The laws of thermodynamics are not absolute. We made them up because everything seems to follow them. If we find something where they don't apply, they go out the window, so you can't use them to reject this.

[Anonymous No.11452009]

>>11451993
You can just submerge half this thing into a pool and use a one-way seal of any kind, like it going down into water by a tube , airseal like a upsidedownboat under water etc

[Anonymous No.11452011]

What now?

[Anonymous No.11452030]

>>11452011
very clever

[Anonymous No.11452042]

>>11452007
>The laws of thermodynamics are not absolute
You are invited to find any exceptions.
>We made them up because everything seems to follow them
Hello, retard.

[Anonymous No.11452045]

>>11452011
This image shows why infinite energy cannot exist.

Because if it did it could be used like this pic, which would become an never ending acceleration so fast the entire fucking universe would explode

[Anonymous No.11452052]

>>11452045
>explode
Try again

[Anonymous No.11452058]

>>11452045
>which would become an never ending acceleration so fast the entire fucking universe would explode
yea or you know the bearings would overheat or the belt would snap

[Anonymous No.11452059]

>>11452052
explode 2.0

[Anonymous No.11452065]

>>11452058
>not using indestructible material in his infinite energy machine

[Anonymous No.11452070]

>>11451950
What if you use a energy barrier that lets the gasballs through but keeps water molecules in?

[Anonymous No.11452078]

>>11452045
>>11452052
Assuming an indestructible device, it would keep accelerating and increasing in mass per e=mc^2. The gravitational attraction would literally do the opposite of exploding the universe as it sucked everything inside the singularity.

[Anonymous No.11452080]

>>11452070
Wouldn't work either. There are a number of situations that seemingly defy laws of thermodynamics, but there is always some sort of fuckery going on in the background, especially with hypothetical barriers or systems that can only let select particles go by (in this case, the energy needed for the detection is the problem, and a perfect detection cancels out perfectly with the "gained energy")

[Anonymous No.11452081]

>>11451877
Give me 1 reason why this wouldnt work

[Anonymous No.11452085]

>>11452081
We don't have a way of storing enough energy to power a house for a night in an economically feasible battery.

[Anonymous No.11452089]

>>11452081
Calculate the total power output of the sun and try to get more than that.

[Anonymous No.11452092]

>>11452070
Consider a system with only one ball, when it enters through the barrier the water level rises an amount equal to its displacement, requiring energy

[Anonymous No.11452093]

>>11451877
>one way seal
How? You can't make one way deals with water.

[Anonymous No.11452094]

>>11452085
how about now

[Anonymous No.11452098]

>>11452094
I think you missed the point.

[Anonymous No.11452100]

>>11452011
Just tried this, it works.

[Anonymous No.11452104]

>>11451950

no because currents would form and help the ball up

[Anonymous No.11452112]

>>11452009
What
Could you make another pic?

[Anonymous No.11452115]

>>11451877
Excess energy in a perfect version of this system is 0, and this the imperfections you will lose due to friction (air AND water...)

[Anonymous No.11452126]

>>11452081
It works, but it requires a hugely expensive amount of resources and space for all the solar panels and batteries.

[Anonymous No.11452142]

>>11452085
Depends on what you mean by economical. A Tesla Powerwall costs $6500 & can store 14 kw-hr of power. The average US house uses ~29 kw-hr of power a day; figuring that most people use less electricity at night 14 kw-hr is enough for most houses.

[Anonymous No.11452196]

>>11451877
how will you make the empty drums go in an out of the water container without all the water falling out of the bottom?

[Anonymous No.11452217]

>>11452070
>>11452080

Let's say you have a seal with equal pressure on both sides. Pushing something through would require energy because of the material properties of the seal. Instead, imagine you have an ideal seal where if both sides are equal pressure and you can push something through with zero energy.
Moving something from low pressure(outside) to high pressure(underwater) requires energy input. Even if it was an "ideal seal", if there is a pressure differential on either side, it will require energy input to push something from the low pressure side to the high pressure side.

[Anonymous No.11452221]

>>11452196
A water pump that's powered by another belt of air balls will bring the water that falls out back up.

[Anonymous No.11452225]

>>11452126
so what are we waiting for ?

[Anonymous No.11452229]

>>11452045
The biggest argument for why infinite energy doesn't exist in some easy to understand mechanical system is because evolution would have already utilized it to make animals which need no food. Life has exploited many mechanisms we still don't understand and cannot replicate. It's used every simple machine, and built extremely elaborate ones from building blocks. So why the fuck wouldn't it have made such an easy perpetual motion machine in the legs of everything?
Because it doesn't work. Thermodynamics tells us you can't do it period, but a casual observation of the natural world should tell anyone that at least it wouldn't be straightforward if it was possible at all.

[Anonymous No.11452232]

>>11452229
The same argument could be used to prove antibiotics don’t exist.

[Anonymous No.11452235]

>>11451877
>One way seal
What is this one way seal? Requiers it energy to pass?

[Anonymous No.11452241]

>>11451877
Even if your seal would work, eventually this machine would halt, because as the balls are lifted out of the water, water would inevitable be displaced and evaporate.
Ultimately what you are trying to figure out is a Dam Turbine and sadly everywhere in the fucking US is already Dammed up by TVA.

[Anonymous No.11452260]

>>11452232
>Antibiotics don't exist in nature
Are you retarded? We isolate them from molds and sometimes tweak them a bit to be more effective. We produce our own antibiotics too, but the bacteria which preys on us has evolved to be resistant to them. That's why we use the ones from a completely different branch of life.

[Anonymous No.11452280]

>>11452045
AN INFINITE ENERGY DEVICE JUST FLEW OVER MY HOUSE

[Anonymous No.11452609]

>>11451877
Pressure.
Imagine your tub of water is 100m tall
Getting air into the bottom of that requires pushing a lot of water up.
You cannot just fill the bottom with air assuming some water just vanishes.

In fact, you have to push the whole column of water above the balls up

[Anonymous No.11452630]

>>11451877
You gonna lose water.

[Anonymous No.11452700]

>>11451877
How the fuck is the one way seal supposed to work?
Make another pic.

[Anonymous No.11452708]

>>11452042
You're an idiot no offense. Matter and anti matter can be created from nother. In fact all energy and matter was created from such. Quantum Mechanics rules supreme. Sorry bro.

[Anonymous No.11452717]

>>11452042
You're an idiot no offense. Matter and anti matter can be created from nothing. In fact all energy and matter was created from such an event.

[Anonymous No.11452726]

>>11452007
>If we find something where they don't apply, they go out the window
When does this apply?

[Anonymous No.11452729]

>>11451877
Because pushing the whatever from below to the water needs as much energy as it generates by floating up.

[Anonymous No.11452731]

>>11452011
Don't try this, it makes mustard gas

[Anonymous No.11452733]

>>11452070
The problem isn't the seal. The problem is pushing the water aside to make space for the ball.

[Anonymous No.11452743]

>>11452726
when you find something that breaks them

[Anonymous No.11452752]

>>11452726
Say you're transported into alternate world, and you're walking down the street. Every car you come across happen to be yellow. In fact, the last 100 cars you've seen have been yellow, so you create "the law of yellow cars" stating that only yellow cars exist. You keep seeing yellow cars until 1 day you see a green car. The law now goes out the window.

The same would happen to the law of thermodynamics if we one day come across a phenomena that defies it. Ruling out that possibility by citing the law is just as flawed as ruling out the existence of non-yellow cars in the alternate world.

[Anonymous No.11452757]

>>11452752
So find me a metaphorical green car and disprove the law.

[Anonymous No.11452781]

>>11452757
The point is that the law doesn't need to be disproven for it to be fallacious to cite the law in light of anything that could be the very thing that disproves it.

[Anonymous No.11452790]

>>11451877
based retard

[Anonymous No.11452818]

Free energy is easy, just plug an extension chord into your neighbors wall

[Anonymous No.11452840]

>>11451877

Easy. The weight of the water above the one way seal will always be equal or greater than the weight of the water displaced by the balls in the tank. Equal when the balls take up the entire space, so that no water touches the seal. As soon as one of the balls touch the seal from below, the system will come to a hault.

[Anonymous No.11452845]

>>11451877
>Give me 1 reason why this wouldn't work.
How much energy does it take to pull a ball from below into the water?

[Anonymous No.11452849]

>>11452840

And by equal, I mean a force of 0 from the water and the bouancy force.

[Anonymous No.11452851]

>>11452052
Nah, Farnsey, we gotta Globetrotter that explosion up! Make it an IMplosion!

[Anonymous No.11452878]

>>11451877
There will be losses due to entropy in the belts. The plastic balls would have to be extremely buoyant.

[Anonymous No.11452909]

>>11452781
That isn't the point. The point is laws are laws until someone finds a better law. Go find a better law you shit.

[Anonymous No.11453302]

>>11451877
I'll be stealing this idea, thank you.
I'll try to rember to mention you in my Nobel's acceptance speech.

[Anonymous No.11453336]

>>11451910
Have fun being whacked by the deep state if you do build it

[Anonymous No.11453386]

>>11451882
this

[Anonymous No.11453389]

>>11452011
It won't work. It will reach equilibrium. And it's nearly impossible to create an incredibly balanced system to the millionth decimal.

[Anonymous No.11453391]

>>11452818
Thermodynamics cucks BTFO

[Anonymous No.11453395]

>>11452229
this

[Anonymous No.11453398]

>>11452011
inconclusive as the weigh of sideways 9 and sideways 6 isn't well defined

[Anonymous No.11453473]

>>11452085
put 2 mirrors facing each other, let the light bounce around in there until your ready to send it to your solar panel. EZ PZ

[Anonymous No.11453482]

people are focusing on the one way seal, but actually it doesn't matter. You could have completely friction less system and a one way seal and this still doesn't produce energy.

The work imparted to an object by the bouyant force is equal to the change in potential energy of the fluid as the fluid falls and fills the space the rising ball once occupied. The exact same amount of energy is necessary for the ball to enter into the fluid from the bottom of the tube of water (which puts potential energy into the fluid).

[Anonymous No.11453485]

The fact this post got so many comments speaks volumes for the average two digit IQ at play in here.
Fucking brainlets.

[Anonymous No.11453502]

I'll pop the balloons.

[Anonymous No.11453505]

>>11451910
>noble price
The absolute state of this board

[Anonymous No.11453563]

>>11451931
laws of physics be damned i assume.
learn your thermodynamics my man.

[Anonymous No.11453589]

>this thing would cost like ten bucks to build
>would change humanity forever
>would essentially end scarcity on earth
>should I build it?
>nah

[Anonymous No.11453594]

>>11452011
yes the mass changes as the machine move highest iq invention i have ever seen.
6->9
9->6
its makes sense

[Anonymous No.11453604]

>>11452840
Correct

[Anonymous No.11453614]

>>11452085
Flywheel battery, fuel cell battery, or even just modern lithium ion batteries.

[Anonymous No.11453629]

>>11453563
>learn your (((thermodynamics)))
>don't disrupt the energy industry
fuck off shill

[Anonymous No.11453663]

You CANNOT disprove this.

[Anonymous No.11453681]

Isn't life itself a perpetual machine?

[Anonymous No.11453888]

>>11453629
where the fuck do I begin reading to comprehend what this man just said

[Anonymous No.11453921]

>>11452011
genius

[Anonymous No.11453930]

It would not move.

[Anonymous No.11453933]

>>11452059
kek

[Anonymous No.11453934]

>>11453663
>wormhole
>real
pick one you motherfucker

[Anonymous No.11453943]

[Anonymous No.11453967]

>>11451877
Assuming (and it's a big assumption) that your one way seal works the way you hope, in order for it to work you need to fulfill a simple condition:
For the seal to open and let the ball through, the force of the ball climbing needs to be greater than the force of the water pressing down on the seal.
Water is 1000 kg/m3 so multiply that by whatever volume your tub has, and multiply the resulting mass by 9.81 m/s2 to get the force of the water pressing down.
Feel free to do the math and see what buoyant force you need to counter that and if you can obtain it with your plastic balls (protip: you won't, once you have the mass of the water it should be painfully obvious).
But don't believe me, or the math, test it for yourself! Build a small tub of water with a one way trap door on bot, tie however many hollow balls you want to said trap door with strings and see if it ever opens. Also make sure to post results!

[Anonymous No.11454098]

>>11451877
>>11451931
This anon understands, you should make it OP and sell it for bitcoins before the price moons again.

[Anonymous No.11454205]

>>11452081
clouds

[Anonymous No.11454259]

>>11452142
$6,500, plus the extra solar panels to charge your battery completely in the 6-10 usable hours of the day while also powering your home, and these batteries are only good for about 2,000 cycles, so that's $6,500 every five years.
All this together makes a completely off grid solar system completely uneconomical. The payback period will be well outside the life of the panels, and if you need to use 40kWh one day to run some equipment or to host a holiday dinner or other event, tough titties. This is why nobody is doing it. It makes no fucking sense until prices fall by nearly an order of magnitude.

[Anonymous No.11454284]

>>11452221
This is going to go all recursive on us, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.11454286]

>>11452733
That IS the big problem. But the seal is also a problem.

[Anonymous No.11455111]

>>11451877
>excess energy
there isn't any

[Anonymous No.11455739]

>>11453888
They were implying you're a Jew with investments in the oil industry who is attempting to dissuade alternative energy efforts.

You know, the usual /pol/ shit

[Anonymous No.11455740]

>>11452011

Thank god the direction of the Normal Vector caused by gravity can be changed by turning my phone upside-down.

[Anonymous No.11455860]

>>11453663
I was actually thinking about it seriously for a second until I saw wormhole

[Anonymous No.11455878]

>>11452781
Bringing up fallacies? Really? What is this freshman lit? What does that have to do with this argument? That just because something might be proven false that means we have to throw away the entire textbook of thermodynamics because someone on the internet believes that they are right?

[Anonymous No.11455892]

Guys I think I discovered free energy
>move a magnet through a coil
>induce electric potential
>use potential difference to drive a motor
>motor moves magnet through coil
>????
>profit

[Anonymous No.11455920]

>>11453681
No. If you restrict your viewpoint to the interior of an organism, it seems to be reversing entropy, but the trick is that a trail of entropy is left in its wake.

[Anonymous No.11455949]

>>11455892
Holy shit. If you did this with the earth and moon it would be free energy. All you have to do is build the quadrillion dollar coil and magnet.

[Annon No.11455982]

>>11455878

[Anonymous No.11456133]

>>11452630
coat the balls in water resistant spray so it's all comes off right away

[Anonymous No.11456698]

>>11451877

Because the energy required for one ball to pass through that seal is greater then all the plastic balls could manage to produce via the lifting force in the fluid.

[Anonymous No.11456718]

>>11451877
It wouldn't rotate, let alone produce energy.

[Anonymous No.11457765]

>>11451877
Entering the water would albeit initially unintuitively be more difficult at the bottom than at the top, so much so that any number of floating balls wouldn't be able to pull another ball into the water.

[Anonymous No.11457773]

>>11457765
because gravity, if that wasn't clear

[Anonymous No.11457928]

[Anonymous No.11458081]

>>11457928
This one actually works, it was my science fair project in high school.

[Anonymous No.11458082]

>>11453336
I think they got to OP, he hasn't replied yet

[Anonymous No.11458095]

>>11453943
Made me kek

[Anonymous No.11458470]

>>11453943
Wouldn't the rope appear to basically slow to a stop at the event horizon?

[Anonymous No.11458537]

>>11451877
I feel bad about thinking up of almost the exact same shit as an early teen.
There's not net force dude, incoming balls are pressed downwards too.

[Anonymous No.11458547]

>>11453943
Wouldn't that unironically work though? (not quite as depicted obviously) But it's not a free energy device.

[Anonymous No.11458721]

>>11453943
Holy shit my sides

[Anonymous No.11458732]

>>11451877
I like it, it's silly.

[Anonymous No.11458736]

>>11451877
I like it; it's silly.

[Anonymous No.11458744]

>>11458736
The buoyant force is more than 0 for every ball except the one entering, obviously, "silly"

[Anonymous No.11458764]

>>11458744
the arrows are getting larger as they go further down in the water

i wonder what it could mean?

[Anonymous No.11458771]

>>11458764
>i wonder what it could mean?
not that the buoyant force is more than 0 for every ball except the one entering, guy with woefully-misplaced leftist-tier snark. Go back to >>>/reddit/

[Anonymous No.11458828]

>>11458771
The arrow below the ball is larger than the arrow above the ball because the force on the bottom pushing upward is greater than the force on top pushing downward. That communicates that the net force for each ball is "more than 0 for every ball except the one entering," as well as for the ball at the top, which is only being pushed upward by the water.

It's not snark; it's guiding someone with poor interpretation skills, as one would do with a child that they're trying to teach.

[Anonymous No.11458839]

>>11452717
Are you attempting to claim your infinite energy machine is made out of antimatter or something?

[Anonymous No.11458840]

Give me 1 reason this wouldn’t work

[Anonymous No.11458868]

>>11451877
Build it retard
There's no way that fucking one way seal would work

>>11452081
>>11452094
It does
https://youtu.be/bDmOwnc4A38

>>11453943
Rope is non renewable

>>11457928
I don't get how the energy is caught. What's the scribbles?
Magnets do get weaker btw

[Anonymous No.11458874]

>>11451877
It works. Submit this to the Nobel prize committee and you should be good to go.

[Anonymous No.11458941]

>>11453663
Why not just make it like a loop

[Anonymous No.11458997]

>>11454205
Based retard

[Anonymous No.11459045]

>>11452011
what happens with a weight of 8? black hole?

[Anonymous No.11459046]

>>11459045
it doesn't move fren

[Anonymous No.11459129]

>>11458868
>I don't get how the energy is caught. What's the scribbles?
Too unskilled to draw it properly. It's supposed to be coils that surround the magnet and electricity is generated from the magnet moving back and worth in there.

[Anonymous No.11459208]

>>11452094
Add one more lmao

[Anonymous No.11459245]

>>11455878
The best way to refute that is just posting a picture of the scientific method. Fucker has to provide proof of something first, proof already exists for what exists

[Anonymous No.11459412]

>>11451913
this guy gets it

[Anonymous No.11459865]

>>11458840
Magic consumes the wizard's mana, so you have to keep sustaining the wizard or else you'll end up with just a shriveled up raisin that used to be a wizard.

[Anonymous No.11459866]

>>11451877
one way seal will leak water

[Anonymous No.11459877]

>>11453663
The magnets would be facing the wrong direction when they come out of the wormhole

[Anonymous No.11459905]

Look, the reason that bouyant objects float in water is because the pressure at the bottom is much higher than the pressure at the top. So you are pushing this ping pong ball (or whatever it is) upward from an environment of atmospheric pressure, to the pressure of the water depth at the bottom. So it's pressure is spiking tremendously. This would have extreme resistance to say the least. The pressure issue is so bad, it's difficult to construct something like this in the first place

[Anonymous No.11459943]

>>11451877
So 3 questions you need to ask about it to answer your question.

1. How much energy will it take to start it?
2. How much energy that it creates must me recycled into itself to maintain its current function?
3. How does heat/cold/gravity affect it's energy production? Have you ever thought about how it would rise slower in cold thus lowering production?
4.parts/repair? How much would it cost to build? And how much would it cost to repair it? Would it make as much as you pay to keep it going?

Just solid questions anon.. believe me I'll be testing this idea myself

[Anonymous No.11459999]

>>11451877
The fact that so many people don't recognize that this closed system would reach equilibrium instantly really shows the average IQ of this place, and that most people have 0 intuition for physics.

[Anonymous No.11460483]

>>11457928

Technically correct is the best correct

[Anonymous No.11460497]

>>11451877
What forces the plastic balls through the liquid? Isnt there surface tension pushing aginst them at the bottom?

[Anonymous No.11460542]

Maybe magnets would be better suited for it?

[Anonymous No.11460611]

>>11453485
BP right here