Actual physics, not math.

[Anonymous No.11407833]

Let's talk about inductors (coils) and capacitors.

Describe in your best words how they work, why they work like they do, what the process is both specifically and in relation to circuits and the environment and why they are the complete denial of the other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ8drfI4j9o

Here are coils and caps connected in series and parallel, they produce different effects..

[Anonymous No.11407861]

>>11407833
Pretty sure this is your homework.

[Anonymous No.11407870]

>>11407861
And you're supposed to help!

[Anonymous No.11408776]

>>11407833
Capacitors work with e-fields while inductors work with magnetic fields (b-fields). That should be enough to help you along in searching through your notes to finish your hmwk.

[Anonymous No.11408793]

>>11407833
capacitors store effort. Inertances store flow.

[The Slayer No.11408834]

An observer measures a charge at rest in frame F. The observer will detect a static electric field. As the charge is stationary in this frame, there is no electric current, so the observer does not observe any magnetic field.

The other observer in frame F' moves at velocity v relative to F and the charge. This observer sees a different electric field because the charge moves at velocity -v in their rest frame. The motion of the charge corresponds to an electric current, and thus the observer in frame F' also sees a magnetic field.

[The Slayer No.11408844]

AHEM... Tink* tink* tink*
I would like to make an announcement.

The aether is real and it ate my ass.

[Anonymous No.11408949]

>>11408776
>>11408793
>>11408834
I was hoping for a more concise explanation as to how they work, for instance in capacitors is the charge stored in the dielectric between the plates? Does one side produce the stored charge and the other dissipate it? And is the energy going in the same as that coming out when shorted?
Inductors store a magnetic charge but only release it when the circuit is open, what's going on here?

[Anonymous No.11409821]

>>11408949
>>11407833
be carefull with that eric dollard guy he is a pseudo-wherever the hell he is. Steinmetz is a proper electric engineer but in his writings he uses analogies that some people have taken totally out of context I'm talking about the book "Elementary Lectures on Electric Discharges

a capacitor basicaly uses the interactaction of the surface electrons of the plaques with the surface electrons of the dielectric, this is why a capacitor's capacity is basically directly related to surface/area, the thickness of the dielectric is not related to capacity but only to how much voltage the capacitor can take before rupturing the dielectric creating an arc between the plaques this has to be avoided in the normal use of a capacitor

be carefull not to confuse "dielectric" with "dielectricity" this term used by Dollard. a dielectric is a material that is an insulator but has good "surface electron" qualities like mica. "dielectricity" is supoosedly another type of "electricity" but this is a term only used in the alternative community

to understand inductors I think the best explanation I have is to picture that the electrons have momentum and theres also the action of a magnetic field plus electric fields at the same time so when you energise a coil the coil recives electrons and the behaviour is to "store" them so if you sudenly cut the supply to the inductor this "stored" electrons rush to seek be at rest in neutral charge this is basically why you get inductive spikes (the uncontrolled rush of electrons IS the inductive spike)... I'm sorry if this is a messy explanation... also remember that any cable has induction and capacitance theres no perfect cable in real life basically every wire is an inductor, it doesnt have to be made into a coil to have induction.

at very high frequencies even an inch of wire can present too much induction and other parasitics, this is part of the reason why Radio Frequency work RF is admire as an "occult art"

[Anonymous No.11411957]

>>11407833
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ8drfI4j9o

what is happening in that video is that wires present induction,capacity and resistance, a long transmission wire will present more of this characteristics... a long transmission line can be simulated using capacitors, inductors and resistors

[Anonymous No.11412006]

>>11408949
>in capacitors is the charge stored in the dielectric between the plates
No. It is stored on the plates.
>Does one side produce the stored charge and the other dissipate it?
Both plates store charge of opposite sign.
>And is the energy going in the same as that coming out when shorted?
Dont know what this means
>Inductors store a magnetic charge but only release it when the circuit is open, what's going on here?
Ampere's law and Faraday's law. Any current in a loop induces a magnetic field through the center, but only a changing magnetic field induces a current in the loop that surrounds the field. The direction of the field and induced current are related by Lenz's law.
>>11409821
tl;dr

[Anonymous No.11412313]

>>11412006
>>And is the energy going in the same as that coming out when shorted?
>Dont know what this means

he's basically talking about "inductive spikes" some people in the alternative community and fans of Eric Dollard think that this spikes are "extra energy" obtained from "somehwere" and then they say it must be energy taken from the eather or that it is "zero point energy" this people are the same that think the spirals coils tesla used are "magical" that they can extract energy from the eather and all that nonsese...this people are an insult to tesla, tesla never said such bullshit ... is the same energy you put in from wherever power supply you are using, is just that coils has the property to releases it in a rush into a low impedance load, this behaviour is similar to capacitors they can also release the energy/electrons in a rush

is very commond in relays to use a diode in parallel with the coil (this is only for DC relays, other relays work on AC) to absorve this stored energy and lower the voltage spike that occurs when the relay becomes suddenly de-energise, but this stored energy comes from the same power supply

pic related is the interwinding capacitance related to spiral coils and found in all coils and transformers.

[Anonymous No.11412319]

>>11412313
Tesla and his cult of followers are all retards

[Anonymous No.11412366]

>>11412319
yes!
althought I have to thank them becasue they sparked my curiosity that made me read about Tesla and it turns out everything is normal electromagnetic theory and very approchable to any student of electronics and in fact is all very insteresting.

for anyone interested in electronics I highly recommend reading Tesla but only his own writings and pattents not some third person, they always end up making bullshit explanations like that Eric Dollard and many others

I wish I could discuss an interesting phenomena related to tesla but unfortunatelly theres too much schizo bullshit goin on and theres too little people here with a good grasp of electric engineering that also have read the patents... and to the people that I have recomended reading them don't even want to try, so it all becomes futile...

[Anonymous No.11414085]

>>11407833
that pic is a really neat "voltage doubler" although it uses "spark gaps" instead of the more common diodes

[Anonymous No.11414244]

>>11412006
Based
>>11412313
Cucked

[Anonymous No.11414252]

>>11407833
>Why are they the denial of the other
The electric and magnetic fields are orthogonal to each other

[Anonymous No.11414280]

>>11407833
>he is not familiar with Marx generator
the capacitors are being charged in paralell, until voltafe is high enough to create a spark in the lowest spark gap. This will cause it to create sparks in all spark gaps, the capacitors are connected in series through spark gaps and discharge in the form of great boom that can kill.

[Anonymous No.11414916]

>>11414280
I came

[Anonymous No.11414944]

>>11408844
Based Fallout Player, who needs to study when you can just increase your science skill.

[Anonymous No.11415723]

>>11407833
When you connect a capacitor to a constant voltage source you induce an electric field across the dielectric gap. This causes a separation of charges. When a time varying source is connected to a capacitor you get a displacement current through the dielectric (this is the term that Maxwell added to Ampere's Law). You can define a metric called capacitance which relates the charge that has been separated and the electric scalar potential between the plates.

A coiled wire with constant current running through it will generate a static magnetic field around it (Ampere's law in the static case). Defining a parameter called Inductance as the ratio of the flux density of the magnetic field to the current yields to the formulation of an inductor. If the current source is time varying then you will get both magnetic and electric fields that will propagate (probably badly) from your coil.

Honestly for any EM problem you just need to look at Maxwell's equations and the answer is staring at you in the face

[Anonymous No.11416075]

>>11415723
>you get a displacement current through the dielectric

that statement can be misleading, theres no actual electron current through the dielectric, its only an "apparent current displacement" if there was such a current in practice the capacitor will be faulty.

the plaques acumulate charge that latter can be discharged but not through the dielectric it returns only through the same terminals that feed the plaques , even in an AC circuit the dielectric does not present an actual current displacement.
the dielectric is always an insulator, no one wants a leaky capacitor in their circuits...

this posts has complementary details of the physical behaviour:
>>11409821
>>11412006


and vid related 7:10 https://youtu.be/ppWBwZS4e7A?t=429

btw theres also vacuum capacitors and the reason is like I mentioned before:

>A vacuum capacitor uses a high vacuum as the dielectric instead of air or other insulating material. This allows for a higher voltage rating than an air dielectric using a smaller total volume

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_variable_capacitor

[Anonymous No.11417294]

>>11414280
>discharge in the form of great boom that can kill.

yes, althought a little reminder that to cause lethal damage will depend also on the current, the homemade ones are generally too low current, the zap can be very painfull or even cause burns if the current is enough but not necessarely lethal... high current with high voltage will be lethal

[Anonymous No.11417422]

>>11412313
You're adding your own personal flavour of ridicule onto something that should be scientific.

>>11412319
Good argument.

>>11414252
This is a description not an explanation of how or why they are.

[Anonymous No.11417427]

>>11414085
So it needs to be grounded?

Isn't doubling the voltage a potential way to get infinitely more energy from the same input?

[Anonymous No.11417452]

>>11417422
You are an idiot, berserkerfag

[Anonymous No.11417462]

>>11417427
>Isn't doubling the voltage a potential way to get infinitely more energy from the same input?

no, think for example of a "step up" transformer, the voltage goes up but the current goes down and vice versa for a "step down" transformer.

theres no circuit that can have an output of more energy that you put in, if someone tells you that they have such a circuit you should doubt it.

[Anonymous No.11417495]

>>11417452
Munch shitty sphincters you cock wrangler.

>>11417462
Let's say we're in a church that is acoustically designed to resonate, we have 50 grand pianos, for arguments sake. We play a D# on one of the pianos and the rest of them start to resonate and play the same note also. We didn't lose any velocity, or energy, in the first piano. We gained more energy than we put out. Couldn't the same be applied to coils also in resonance wirelessly?

[Anonymous No.11417862]

>>11417495
>We gained more energy than we put out

Omit this one sentence and overall I'd say this is a pretty based post.

[Anonymous No.11418147]

>>11417495
>Let's say we're in a church that is acoustically designed to resonate, we have 50 grand pianos, for arguments sake. We play a D# on one of the pianos and the rest of them start to resonate and play the same note also. We didn't lose any velocity, or energy, in the first piano. We gained more energy than we put out. Couldn't the same be applied to coils also in resonance wirelessly?

thats actually an interesting "mind experiment" but the answer is no, what you are doing there is that you are making the best conditions to capture that resonance emited by that first piano so the efficiency in the transfer of that tone to the other strings can be quite high but theres no more energy than the input...

...high efficiency transfer of wireless energy ("radio") IS something that I sincerely encourange you to study and focus on because its a very cool subject. for example just recently I was reading an article with a very beautiful coil design from the 1910s, pic related consist of a spiral coil made with ribbon wire and inside it theres the other coil wound in a spherical pattern (it looks like saturn)... but this is not a "free energy" coil nor a over-unity coil, the idea is high efficiency... Tesla never claimed "free energy" or "over-unity" only charlatans will claim that, it was all about efficiency.

[Anonymous No.11418265]

>>11418147
But maybe you missed what I said. for the same input, I could multiply my output infinitely under the right conditions. I could have 500 pianos. Is it true that resonating one coil and picking it up wirelessly on another does not diminish the initial power? Same goes for capacitors, if I charged one side of a 30cm squared copper plate with a dielectric between another plate, I could tap the same power of the other plate without it reducing the initial.

[Anonymous No.11418273]

>>11418265
The motion of the piano hammer is tremendously larger than the energy of the piano wire as transfered to some point across a dampened room. The resonant church full of pianos utilizes more of that original, but not more than was originally put in.

[Anonymous No.11418341]

>>11418273
Doesn't it make sense to hypothesise that a certain set of frequencies and harmonics might reach a spike to infinity and go above or at least to unity.

[Anonymous No.11418351]

>>11414252
>>11417422
>fields are orthogonal
>THATS A DESCRIPTION NOT AN EXPLANATION
This is why you need to know math to do physics...

[Anonymous No.11418396]

>>11418265
>Same goes for capacitors, if I charged one side of a 30cm squared copper plate with a dielectric between another plate, I could tap the same power of the other plate without it reducing the initial.

nop the plates will want to go into equilibrium, remember that you have to "close the circuit" to do something useful with that charge

>>11418341
>frequencies and harmonics might reach a spike to infinity and go above

have you ever experimented with coils and condensers? for example inductive spikes DO NOT GO TO INFINITY...

I know exactly what you are talking about I actually like to watch videos by eric dollard and all the tesla crowd... they even badly quote Proteus steinmetz and out of pure mental gymnastics come to the conclusion that inductive spikes are "infinte energy because they tent to go to infinity" but is not the case and that is not what steinmatz was saying, remember how the alternative comunity accuse physics of being "only a mathematical construct without looking at reality?" well the alternative community is doing exactly that....

all the parasitics make that impossible, only in theory you could say the spike go to infinity just like its very easy to design a perpetual motion machine... IN THEORY. so again in real life all comes down to the efficiency game

in electronics is very common to study the "ideal components" but latter you HAVE to go into real models

relevant vid, steinmetz is talking about the absolute ideal theory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmZxQp1PW1U

[Anonymous No.11418443]

>>11418396
not if the plate is grounded well.

[Anonymous No.11418444]

>>11418396
have you looked into don smith?

[Anonymous No.11418470]

What the fuck IS this thread?

[Anonymous No.11419692]

>>11418444
>don smith
not much, apparently nothing has come out in practical terms... everyone is just chasing a magical rabbit... same as the case with eric dollard he claims he had a lot of "incredible" experiences with some "special vaccum tubes" but apparently for some reason is impossible to replicate...

this other guy is also Bullshit
peter lindemann
https://youtu.be/cmfWGDKVHRE

this other is also Bullshit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHTCZu8OZtI

one thing in common to a lot of this people is that none of then can read

the youtube channel of "master ivo" is interesting at least he is actually doing experiments but he also can't read (you HAVE to use high voltages Ivo! thats a very basic thing!)

I wonder if ken wheeler has finished the developing of his "antigravity prototype"...


>>11418443
>not if the plate is grounded well.


do you have an schematics? to see what exactly is that you mean.

[Anonymous No.11420016]

>>11417294
the capacitors be easily be home-made with linoleum and aluminium tho

[Anonymous No.11420125]

>>11407833
How much voltage are you putting into that?

[Anonymous No.11420407]

>>11420125
---> >>11414085
input to the "doubler stair" is about 10kv the output (spark gap) is about 100Kv
pic related is a spark gap length Versus voltage chart, in this case the terminals are "needle type"

[Anonymous No.11421569]

>>11420016
or the chad leyden jar... it has quite high voltage rating