/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11403360]

Anxiety is not a real disorder and people who claim to have it are just weak snowflakes. Change my mind.

[Anonymous No.11403363]

>>11403360
How do you explain changes in heart rate? An anxiety attack makes you feel your heart is about to jump out of your mouth.

[Anonymous No.11403371]

>>11403360
weak snowflakism is not within control by lack of free will, anxiety is just the definition word

[Anonymous No.11403379]

>>11403363
That’s just regular anxiety, and everyone experiences it at times.

[Anonymous No.11403381]

>>11403360
I have a very combative attitude –opposite of snowflake– and I still get anxiety often. I get anxiety when studying hard things because my minds keeps rejecting my attempt to pay attention to that. I get anxiety when I am troubleshooting a computer problem because I know it may open the box of Pandora where I hit a bug that is present upstream and I may have to spend a disproportionate effort in fixing it.

[Anonymous No.11403503]

>>11403379
I've never experienced crippling anxiety before. Just minor bits of fright.

[Anonymous No.11403509]

>>11403360 so endocrinology,psychiatry,psychology,anthropology means nothing to you?

[Anonymous No.11403522]

>>11403509
OP is retarded

[Anonymous No.11403528]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5979578/

[Anonymous No.11403533]

shit i've been addicted to my own anxiety my whole lief. it finally coalesced not too long ago into severe and consistent anxiety attacks and nerve pain. now i have to go through a period of recovery probably for a year or 2 before i can get back on the wagon. it's really fucking weird being separated from it but it must be done.

[Anonymous No.11403616]

>>11403528
This doesn't prove my point.

>>11403509
None of which are hard sciences

[Anonymous No.11403653]

>>11403360
I'm not sure if it's real within a context of snowflakes who've never been legitimately traumatized saying they have anxiety. But I can guarantee it's a real disorder within the context of PTSD. I never had a panic attack/anxiety until I almost got murdered by someone with a gun out of nowhere. After that for a while, hearing loud noises that sounded like gunshots would send me into real deal panic attacks where I felt forced by my body to flee. Also, after the event I felt a baseline anxiety and low panic having my back to strangers and being in crowds. It negatively effected my life but I got over it by not avoiding my own panic and knowing I'd be okay with repeat exposure.

[Anonymous No.11403673]

>>11403616
>This doesn't prove my point.
Right, because it disproves it. It outlines one biochemical mechanism that contributes to maladaptive feelings of anxiety.

[Anonymous No.11403686]

>>11403360
I talk shit about psychiatry almost every chance I get, but you really picked the most retarded example possible here. If anything is legitimate it's anxiety. Low hanging fruit to "change your mind" here is probably the massive risk increase for both coronary heart disease and cardiac death.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109710016049
>Anxiety and Risk of Incident Coronary Heart Disease: A Meta-Analysis
>Twenty studies reporting on incident CHD comprised 249,846 persons with a mean follow-up period of 11.2 years. Anxious persons were at risk of CHD (hazard ratio [HR] random: 1.26; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 1.15 to 1.38; p < 0.0001) and cardiac death (HR: 1.48; 95% CI: 1.14 to 1.92; p = 0.003), independent of demographic variables, biological risk factors, and health behaviors.
>Anxiety seemed to be an independent risk factor for incident CHD and cardiac mortality.
>The results show an association between anxiety and incident CHD with a 26% increase in risk. Anxiety was also specifically associated with cardiac mortality, with anxious persons having a 48% increased risk of cardiac death.

[Anonymous No.11403690]

>>11403360
>Anxiety is not a real disorder and people who claim to have it are just weak snowflakes. Change my mind.
same with depression, schizophrenia, and alcoholism

[Anonymous No.11403694]

>>11403616 With your logic nothing is hard science.Maybe we leaving in multi dimension space-time and Quantum entanglement is working without the knowledge how,that means the quantum mechanics are a hoax?

[Anonymous No.11403891]

Anxiety is a very real phenomenon that we all experience at some point in a small degree; however some people live extreme episodes that impede them from living their routine, even on a physical level. Sure some people are sensitive nowadays but that's not the same as a proper anxiety disorder diagnosis. And of course people claiming to have anxiety are about as dumb as "self-diagnosed" aspergers, etc.
>>11403616
All of those are about as reputable as the medical sciences in terms of replicability, especially considering their common use of rigorous statistical methods. This "STEM above all" mentality is a meme and partly a consequence of the mindless push for STEM in the last years. Quit consuming pop-sci and fucking think.

[Anonymous No.11403900]

>>11403690
>>11403360
>>11403371
The absolute state of this board

[Anonymous No.11403948]

>>11403360
no disorders exist at all, the only true mental issue is hallucinating, retardation or having fucked up TICs/touretes in a heavy way (less ones are curable, only retards dont cure them)
all the other is just cultural

[Anonymous No.11403958]

>>11403891
OP's wrong, but your picture's argument is bullshit. There isn't enough difference between the brain features associated with diagnoses psychiatry covers to even begin to try reverse inference (hence why you couldn't do brain scan diagnoses even if you wanted to and it's all non-physical opinion diagnosis instead).
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/hbm.23486
In contrast, here are some biomedical reverse inference metrics:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19883690
>Compared with reference methods (viral culture, conventional RT-PCR, and real-time RT-PCR), the sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive value, and negative predictive value of the present assay were all 100%.
https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-journals/researchers-identify-tests-to-diagnose-invasive-aspergillosis-with-100-accuracy
>A study in The Journal of Molecular Diagnostics compared three diagnostic tests and found that the combination of nucleic acid sequence-based amplification (NASBA) and real-time quantitative PCR (qPCR) detects aspergillosis with 100% accuracy.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/045d/8c929c016af52aacf7ca48be4af350e3fddd.pdf
>Pan-gram positive and pan-gram-negative probes were able to detect four (S. aureus, S. epidermidis, E. faecium, and E. faecalis) and five (E. coli, P. aeruginosa, A. baumannii, E. cloacae, and K. pneumoniae) medically important species, respectively, and no cross-reactivity was observed between each group or with fungi. Pan-fungal, pan-Candida, and pan-Aspergillus probes also demonstrated 100% specificity. Eight Candida species (C. albicans, C. glabrata, C. krusei, C. tropicalis, C. parapsilosis, C. guilliermondii, C. lusitaniae, and C. dubliniensis), four Aspergillus species (A. fumigatus, A. flavus, A. niger, and A. terreus), Cryptococcus neoformans, and Saccharomyces cerevisiae (Table 1) were detected easily by the pan-fungal probe without any cross-reactivity with the bacterial probes.

[Anonymous No.11403960]

>>11403948
Jesus christ. You're a complete idiot

[Anonymous No.11403990]

>>11403958
>There isn't enough difference between the brain features
patently false. that imagine even shows it.

[Anonymous No.11404014]

Weak snowflake with fake disorder here. How do I change it? I stay at home all day and I have mental illness in my family, my uncle is schizo. I can still get girls but I never go outside, I meet them on tinder. I can't have it for real because I'm fucking girls online right? But I feel like I have to be "pre approved" and I live in a neighborhood that is hispanic and im not, I fuck mostly hispanic girls but like IDK if its what Putnam said here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities
>In recent years, Putnam has been engaged in a comprehensive study of the relationship between trust within communities and their ethnic diversity. His conclusion based on over 40 cases and 30,000 people within the United States is that in the short term, other things being equal, more diversity in a community is associated with less trust both among and within ethnic groups. Putnam describes people of all races, sex, socioeconomic statuses, and ages as "hunkering down", avoiding engagement with their local community as diversity increases. Although limited to American data, his findings run counter the contact hypothesis which proposes that distrust declines as members of different ethnic groups interact, and conflict theory which suggests that while distrust among ethnic groups rises with diversity, distrust within ethnic groups should decrease. Putnam found that even when controlling for income inequality and crime rates, two factors which conflict theory states should be prime causal factors in declining inter-ethnic group trust, more diversity is still associated with less communal trust. Further, he found that low communal trust is associated with the same consequences as low social capital."

Am I that racist and tribalist? I don't like to leave my room either. My parents just leave food in the fridge. Putnam copes at the end but I'm out of space

[Anonymous No.11404020]

I feel comfortable with my own race as well, but its expensive to live there and it looks like the average income there is really low too. I have been reading about good habits and have been changing, reading more and learning. Being more mindful of my mistakes. Should I post on adv or the med thread? I read that GAD is the most common problem in the US more than depression, I am not depressed.

[Anonymous No.11404022]

>>11403990
No, you're wrong and you have no idea what you're talking about. Try reading:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/hbm.23486
Reverse inference would mean being able to RELIABLY identify patients who were diagnosed by psychiatric opinion using nothing but brain scans to come to the same conclusions. And you absolutely cannot do that. There isn't enough difference when taken over a population of different kinds of patients and non-patient controls. When tried the right answer isn't reached significantly more often than a wrong answer, like doing a blind taste test and finding the subjects can't correctly identify which wine they're tasting more often than they're incorrectly guessing the other option/s. What you see any time someone has some paper saying they found X brain activity correlates with Y psychiatric condition is not reverse inference.
It's easy to find correlations between conditions and some brain scan attribute if you test enough of them. See the dead salmon MRI study for why finding significant results in a brain scan by sifting through all the possible features you can come up with until one happens to be far enough off from the norm to count doesn't give you very useful / accurate results:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255651552_Neural_correlates_of_interspecies_perspective_taking_in_the_post-mortem_Atlantic_Salmon_an_argument_for_multiple_comparisons_correction
This is the reason nobody is doing brain scan diagnosis of psychiatric conditions. And as I already provided in my last post this isn't some problem independent of psychiatry that medical science in general is unable to resolve. There are plenty of examples of 100% successful reverse inference diagnoses for medical conditions. There is nowhere close to even a mediocre success rate reverse inference diagnosis through brain scan for psychiatric diagnoses. None.

[Anonymous No.11404076]

>>11404022
>uses outdated statistical methods
oh i wonder why? probably could feed this through a mlp and get decent accuracy.

[Anonymous No.11404118]

>>11404076
That's not the problem. When you do proper statistical testing that controls for the problem of taking a shotgun approach and running every attribute you can find until you come up with a spurious correlation what happens is you end up with NO correlation. See:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/hbm.23486
>We found nominal effects of diagnosis in several regions when considering both ROI and whole-brain studies (Table III); these results were driven by ROI studies alone and none survived Bonferroni-corrected P-values. Thus, great caution is required in attributing these subtle and potentially biased results as indicative of meaningful diagnosis-specific effects.
Because there isn't enough distinguishing information in the multiple different brain scans of entire populations of patients to be able to say which belong to people who were given an OCD diagnosis, which who were given a clinical depression diagnosis, which were given a schizophrenia diagnosis, etc.
So by all means go ahead and be the first person to make this work. You will be guaranteed a Nobel Prize, millions of dollars, and an entry in the history books as the guy who revolutionized psychiatry as we know it and ushered in a new era of objective brain scan diagnosis in place of the symptom checkbox subjective opinion approach from the stone age of psych medicine we've been in.

[Anonymous No.11404459]

>>11403360
How about you talk to someone with anxiety in real life?
I've witnessed a coworker with literally crippling anxiety. She's dead now.

[Anonymous No.11404688]

>>11403360
Prove it isn't

[Anonymous No.11404719]

I hate these moronic threads. They all end up like this:
>OP claims something about his pseudo-sci opinion
>Anons give proofs that refute this
>OP's only answer is "no, it isn't"

Remember not feeding the trolls and saging in all fields. It will only make the board better for everyone.
>inb4 hurr dhurr, make ur own threads

[Anonymous No.11404803]

>>11403360
100% believed this myself until about 1.5 years ago.
But, I faced hard times financially, was living in a terrible place that made me paranoid, had low self-worth and a couple of failing relationships that were pivotal to my support system, and were otherwise very important to me. For what it's worth, I consider myself a very relaxed and grounded person (I'm not easily startled, don't freak out about trivial things, and am generally pretty stoic and chill). But I broke down mentally. During and since the breakdown, I have had more anxiety attacks than I care to count. The hardest thing about the anxiety attacks is that I can't seem to control them (and I am convinced that they are simply products of the mind). Like I said, I consider myself very grounded and as having a lot of mental fortitude, and yet I seemingly have no control over these episodes. It can be as mild as shivers, a racing pulse and hyperventilation or as extreme as acute heart palpitations out of nowhere. The worst instance was, after 20 minutes of my heart pounding and struggling to breath, I finally called the emergency services because I couldn't understand what was happening and (living in a flat complex, alone) if it was severe no one could get to me unless I opened the gate. When I finally got to the hospital after about 40 minutes of this, my heart-rate steadied itself, and I was just left with the embarrassment of rushing to the hospital because of something as silly as an anxiety attack, for which there were no symptoms.

[Anonymous No.11404850]

>>11403360
anxiety is the result of the body acclimating to sustained levels of elevated cortisol.

[Anonymous No.11404871]

>>11404118
Could it be that those conditions are frequently comorbid, and the pathogenesis for each is based on similar molecular systems?

[Anonymous No.11404907]

>>11404871
>comorbid
Was addressed by the study. The patients in these cases were given radically different treatments depending on their psychiatrist's opinion based diagnosis even though they are indistinguishable through brain scan. The existing be psychiatric diagnosis approach with isn't mapping to an objective reality. This is why you won't be seeing brain scan diagnoses now or in the future. It's not that something's being missed. It's that the opinion defined conditions aren't constituting actual brain related categories of disease or disorder.

[Anonymous No.11404938]

>>11404907
I agree that psychiatry is less than precise, but my own research in glucocorticoid signalling leads me to believe that there is a real mechanistic dysfunction that causes these conditions to manifest. I think it's hard to separate them clinically, sometimes, because you're seeing similar dysfunctions in the same few structures, mainly the HPA axis, hippocampus, and other aspects of the sympathetic nervous system.

[Anonymous No.11404982]

>>11403616
This
Endocrinology isn't a science, hormones are a myth.
Seriously you need to kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.11405001]

>>11403360
It's copper deficiency, which disables the enzyme which, among other things, converts dopamine into norepinephrine. Which gives you an urge to act while being unable to do so.

[Anonymous No.11405011]

>>11405001
Holy shit, give it a rest copper-schizo.

[Anonymous No.11405024]

>>11405001
Copper posting should be a bannable offense.

[Anonymous No.11405051]

>As children, DBH deficient patients have had a markedly reduced ability to exercise, perhaps because of hypotension engendered by the physical exertion. Because of occasional syncope, anticonvulsive medications have been given in some patients, even though no abnormality was seen on the electroencephalogram. Symptoms have generally worsened in late adolescence and by early adulthood, patients complain of profound orthostatic hypotension, especially early in the day and during hot weather or after alcohol ingestion. In addition to ptosis of the eyelids, there is reduced exercise tolerance, a tendency for nasal stuffiness to occur, especially in the supine posture. A male patient had appropriate erectal function, but retrograde rather than antegrade ejaculation. Presyncopal symptoms in these patients have included dizziness, blurred vision, dyspnea, nuchal discomfort, and occasionally chest pain. The mechanism of the chest pain is not understood, but has been replicated in one patient by the administration of isoproterenol during the supine posture. It is therefore possible that it is somehow related to excessive pumping action of the heart associated with the intact parasympathetic withdrawal accompanying upright posture.

[Anonymous No.11405064]

>>11403360
I had no anxiety until I had two months of radiation treatment to my brain. I don't know if this changes your mind but it changed mine.

[Anonymous No.11405141]

>>11405001
>>11405011
>>11405024
unironically, ive been drinking a shit ton of prune juice, which has a shit ton of copper in it and taking a multivitamin with copper for a few weeks now and my anxiety has been significantly lower than ever before.
I literally give zero fucks about anything.

copper schizo might not be so crazy afterall.

[Anonymous No.11405911]

>>11405141
What makes you think there is a ton of copper in prune juice?

[Anonymous No.11406779]

>people who claim to have it are just weak snowflakes
what is different about this, relative to anxiety being a "real disorder"
all psychological conditions have to be evaluated at a behavioral and physiological level
im not sure what sort of connotations the word "disorder" is supposed to have, it is exactly like it sounds, a break from typical healthy behaviors, no underlying cause is specified

[Anonymous No.11406801]

What if literally every single quantifiable thing is purely just an abstraction of the human consciousness completing a circut in the neural pathways?

[Anonymous No.11406807]

>>11403360
>I don’t understand what a disorder is

[Anonymous No.11407061]

Anxiety is real and panic attacks are no joke. When I was a teenager, I scoffed at the “weak snowflakes” too, until I started having them, myself. It’s physiological. The adrenaline and hyperventilation just keeps coming and coming and you can’t turn it off. You have to scream. Anxiety is like a persistent state of mental hyper-arousal and anticipation of danger. Anything can set it off. Even a traffic light turning yellow that’s barely within stopping distance can make my heart leap into my throat before I can even cognize what happened and consciously calm myself down. We startle more easily than the average person because we’re on a hair trigger, and you can literally feel your heart squeezing in your chest. It makes your heart do this:
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takotsubo_cardiomyopathy?wprov=sfti1
My verdict? Anxiety attacks are all too real and very disturbing.

[Anonymous No.11407080]

>>11407061
How do you eat? are you on an extreme diet fo some kind? Magnesium deprived animals become hypersensitive like that.

[Anonymous No.11407105]

>>11403360
OP post your address in this thread and I will send you some dexamethasone (corticosteroid) tablets. Take the right dose and your brain will explode with anxiety, the like of which you have never experienced. But which I live with on a daily basis due to chronically elevated cortisol levels due to abuse in childhood levels.

My levels are about triple the normal range.

Then tell me how it is a nothing sandwich.

[Anonymous No.11407123]

>>11403360
Brain is merely yet another organ and can be just as disordered as any other organ in the body. Disorders such as anxiety and depression are just as real and mechanistic as diabetes or cancer.

[Anonymous No.11407165]

Based.
All illnesses are fake and it comes down to how much stupid and attention-whoring you are.
Illnesses are just made up for Twitter Bios.

[Anonymous No.11407177]

>>11403360
>people who claim to have this mental disorder are just people with a mental disorder
Wtf I'm cured