/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11399211]

Is there anything I can do to dislodge and break up arterial plaque? I am prescribed Pravachol and I've been exercising 30 minutes each day and I've dropped my BMI from 39 to just over 31, but from what I understand arterial plaque is never removed and at best the amount of plaque will barely increase if I'm on drugs the rest of my life (at worst I am a ticking time bomb until a heart attack or stroke). My blockage isn't enough for them to operate, but it's enough that I can feel a constant pressure or stinging that flares up to full-blown angina whenever I exercise and it's nerve-wracking
I'm retarded and this is the worst part of heart disease. Always assumed it was reversible.

[Anonymous No.11399215]

>>11399211
How old are you and how much do you weigh?

[Anonymous No.11399314]

>>11399211
Eat copper, 25mg/day

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1385/BTER:78:1-3:179
https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000784
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/130/2/489S/4686517

(note that plasma levels have no good correlation with copper reserves, ignore studies that rely solely on those)

[Anonymous No.11399319]

change your diet

[Anonymous No.11399323]

>>11399314
Disregard this anon. He's mentally ill and thinks copper is the solution to everything.

[Anonymous No.11399330]

>>11399211
Change your diet
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-not-to-die-from-heart-disease/

[Anonymous No.11399368]

>>11399323
It is the cause of many things that are usually believed to be caused by aging (also alzheimers) and some others (obesity, diabetes, tooth caries/deformed teeth (as described by Weston Price), possibly myopia)

[Anonymous No.11399382]

Eat plants

[Anonymous No.11399494]

>>11399368
Yeah, exactly. You're the schizophrenic who kept making those threads claiming aging and death didn't begin happening until humans started using zinc:
>There is no such a thing as aging.
>People started using zinc oxide as "the philosopher's stone" which turned copper into "gold". (brass)
>The zinc started replacing other metals in the body, chiefly cobalt and copper.
>Everyone died.
>Eventually people accepted it's completely normal to die.
>Scientists made a (completely understandable) mistake when they studied essential metals and included zinc in place of cobalt.
>We keep dying to this day.
>>/sci/thread/S11005252
You're almost as bad as the electric universe faggots.

[Anonymous No.11399565]

>>11399494
Could you argue with something that I actually wrote?

[Anonymous No.11399583]

>>11399211
Look into getting surgery in countries and eat some fucking vegetables.

[Anonymous No.11399587]

>>11399494
>You're almost as bad as the electric universe faggots.
That’s a stretch

[Anonymous No.11399590]

>>11399494
Well, that would explain the mystery why many enzymes use zinc, even though they are known to work much faster with cobalt...

Could you argue with what I wrote, or the studies above, instead?

[Anonymous No.11399613]

A statin and dual anti platelet therapy is the best medical treatment. Other than that, you can only undergo surgery.

[Anonymous No.11399622]

>>11399590
Bro, you're trying to argue aging and death are unnatural states caused by humans adopting craftmanship practices involving zinc. That's not anywhere close to sane enough to begin making a serious argument against it.

[Anonymous No.11399641]

>>11399622
I asked you to argue with what I posted, instead of something that you digged up somewhere.

[Anonymous No.11399642]

>>11399494
>the schizophrenic
>almost as bad as the electric universe faggots
Ironically, the author of the electric universe theory was a psychiatrist.

[Anonymous No.11399650]

>>11399622
Prove aging is natural.

[Anonymous No.11399664]

>>11399641
Are you pretending that wasn't your post? You're just coincidentally also obsessed with copper deficiency as the cause of a variety of human diseases and disorders? Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.11399689]

>>11399650
>Prove aging is natural.
An awful lot of organisms throughout history have been aging for it to be something anyone would want to call unnatural.

[Anonymous No.11399692]

>>11399211
It isn't "enough" to pose a stent because the risk/reward is too high.
Provided you're not an amerimutt and the money is not too much of a problem you should tell your cardiologist how it impacts your quality of life and he will be more likely to reconsider.
That said you better keep losing weight to convince him.

[Anonymous No.11399716]

>>11399664
>obsessed with copper deficiency
Explain all the evidence pointing towards it. You may start with the studies above.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/003072708401300105

[Anonymous No.11399759]

>>11399211
This is a crazy idea I had years ago but forgot about it till now OP. Imagine a kidney dialysis machine if you can.
Colloidal chemistry,Zeta Potential and Floculation.
Blood is a colloid so is milk and sewage. Look into it.
Change the Zeta Potential of your blood plasma and the plaque will start to dissolve,remove the blood from your body into a machine then find a way to floculate the plaque out of your blood by changing your Zeta Potential before transfusing it back into yourself.Check out sewage works and floculation. Repeat until all the arterial plaque has been dissolved and removed from your body.
Good luck OP.

[Anonymous No.11399771]

>>11399368
>also alzheimers
Bullshit.
Kys for lying.

[Anonymous No.11399818]

>>11399771
https://www.j-alz.com/content/alzheimers-disease-and-copper-biochemistry
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17928161
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnagi.2017.00446/full#h4
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2017/mt/c7mt00074j

[Anonymous No.11400145]

>>11399314
>Eat copper, 25kg/day

[Anonymous No.11401455]

>>11399689
And an awful lot of human cultures hold that aging didn't used to occur, some even relatively well date that the current lifespan limits were reached in likely the 3rd millenium BC, with a long slow decline before that. Many isolated cultures showed excellent health and often claimed extensive lifespans, only to become very ill and short lived in the next generation.

Many isolated cultures avoided salt, for example native Australians thought it was disgusting. Salt eventually starts to taste unpleasant with prolonged copper supplementation.

[Anonymous No.11401488]

>>11401455
>And an awful lot of human cultures hold that aging didn't used to occur
Which is definitely bullshit because humans aren't the only animal on the planet and we see aging historically with every record we have of every animal ever looked at. Even that "immortal" jellyfish that gets memed about in popsci articles every once in a while isn't exempt from aging. It just has a capacity for reverting to its polyp stage.
I have a hard time understanding how you could think this is a legitimate proposal.

[Anonymous No.11401516]

>>11401488
>humans aren't the only animal on the planet
There is no reason why other animals would be extempt form the effect, though the effect vary widely, with surprisingly many animals showing no effects of aging. https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12789
> we see aging historically with every record we have of every animal ever looked at.
Only if you discard all the ancient records claiming otherwise.

Anyway we don't know why we age, so there is no way you could discard this as a possibility.

[Anonymous No.11401527]

>>11399650
do you believe in evolution?

[Anonymous No.11401529]

>>11399211
Overdose on alcohol.

[Anonymous No.11401569]

>>11399211

I would also like to know the answer to this. 37 years old and feel like I am way too young to be feeling constant chest pressure / angina. Looking at me you would never expect this. I look healthy as fuck, but in the inside I feel like I want to die, it's painful.

[Anonymous No.11401576]

>>11401527
Yes. Wvolution in fact seems to disprove several theories of aging. For example, even if aging is for some conuterintuitive reason beneficial, and we evolved to age, we should see random mutations that disable the mechanism.

Anyway, another thing you notice is that you become highly resistant to temperatures. It seems that brown fat loss and the subsequent disruption of thermoregulation is among the first signs of the deficiency.

[Anonymous No.11401581]

>>11401527
On the other hand, if we evolved with some enzymes expecting to use cobalt, which was subsequently replaced with zinc, (which is a known mechanism in other metal poisonings) it's to be expected that disruptions would occur. If we evolved with proteins expecting copper, we should likewise see a disruption to health when these sites are not filled with copper.

[Anonymous No.11401607]

>>11399622
Aging and death are unnatural states caused by sin as a result of seeking knowledge and attempting to progress through material rather than metaphysical methodologies for example through craftsmanship rather than prayer.
This is obvious when reading the bible and realizing that people closer to the Fall of Man were described as giants who lived for thousands of years and as time went on, they gradually shrank and started dying younger while still basically being immature children.

[Anonymous No.11401619]

>>11401607
Religion was likely created by people who were unable to cope with the immesurable catastrophe that they had no chance of understanding.

[Anonymous No.11401629]

>>11401619
>the immesurable (sic) catastrophe that they had no chance of understanding.
The technical term for that catastrophe is original sin.

[Anonymous No.11401648]

>>11401629
It not only causes alzheimers, it leads to brain damage (synapse loss) much earlier, which is why people made up bullshit like that.

[Anonymous No.11401694]

>>11401455
Do you mean shit like the bible saying people lived for hundreds of years? This is /sci/ not /his/. Please leave.

[Anonymous No.11401716]

>>11401694
Not only that, also greeks (golden age), mesopotameans (Gilgamesh supposedly ruled for 126 years according to WRITTEN records, and that is a king that is widely agreed to be real, others are siad to have ruled longer), indians (the yuga cycle or how it is called), etc.
What is important they seem to generally agree on a catastrophe followed by a decline, not on the other details, like why it happened.
Chinese emperors from the same period are recorded to have lived way over 100 years, some vietnamese king lists also record "impossibly" long lives.

[Anonymous No.11401723]

>>11401716
Gilgamesh was also said to have wrestled a bull sent to Kill him because he turned down the sexual advances of a goddess so perhaps you shouldn't be taking those writings at face value.

[Anonymous No.11401738]

>>11399613
>statins
Other than Americans, are there any other people who have marketing-induced delusional disorder regarding statins?

They DON'T WORK. All systematic reviews have shown this - the only "studies" that promote statins are big pharma funded adverts.

[Anonymous No.11401743]

>>11401723
It's the consistency with which it appears, not any particular case.

[Anonymous No.11402000]

>>11401455
That's pretty interesting considering that heart disease tends to go up for people that eat very little salt and very much salt
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sodium-per-day#underconsumption

"The review showed that — regardless of blood pressure — people who consumed less than 3,000 mg (3 grams) of sodium per day were more likely to have heart disease or die compared to people who consumed 4,000–5,000 mg (4–5 grams).

What’s more, those who consumed less than 3,000 mg (3 grams) of sodium per day had worse health outcomes than people consuming 7,000 mg (7 grams).

Still, researchers also found that people with high blood pressure who consumed more than 7 grams of sodium per day had a significantly greater risk of heart disease or death than people who consumed 4–5 grams.

These and other results suggest that too little sodium may be more detrimental to people’s health than higher intakes."

[Anonymous No.11402017]

>>11402000
It seems reasonable to assume it's DBH in the pathway of regulating sodium excretion, which means the kidneys will excrete sodium even when you are short of it, resulting in the constant need to eat relatively large amounts when you are copper deficient.

[Anonymous No.11402022]

We can scrape teeth every six months when they gonna start scraping arteries?
-Rotorooter rep

[Anonymous No.11402056]

>>11399211
Maybe sonic toothbrush rub on skin. ?

[Anonymous No.11402228]

>>11399211
Change you diet.
Eat less and healthier shit
Very slowly ramp up the exercising. Don't go overboard with this.When you feel the stinging you're going over the top.

Also, no idea what kind of exercising you're doing, but biking is best if you don't want to destroy your knees

[Anonymous No.11403224]

>>11399323
this, you should eat silver instead. the only side effect is that you may end up with a bluish hue if you do it for long, recurring periods (Argyria), but that is it.

[Anonymous No.11403230]

>>11399314
>ingest a heavy metal known to be linked to psychosis.

>trust me bro.

[Anonymous No.11403234]

>>11399211

Do cardio and don't eat shit high cholesterol.

Seriously man, it isn't rocket science.

[Anonymous No.11403239]

also curb your diet. Eat less, so your body has time to catch up and scrub those scummy arteries of yours.

[Anonymous No.11403305]

>>11403224
Not sure if you're just pretending to be retarded. Anons on /pol/ have been known to unironically shill for the silver shit. It's horrifying and one of the dumbest things you could do to yourself since your body has literally no way of clearing ingested colloidal silver and it just collects in your organs and stays there until you die, possibly from complications of what you did to yourself that no one will ever learn of because not enough people have done it to form any strong body of evidence on what all that will do to you.

[Anonymous No.11403338]

>>11403230
https://www.pigprogress.net/Health/Articles/2018/8/New-EU-rules-for-copper-in-pig-feed-approved-315959E/
>Changes for swine diets

>New inclusion levels are determined based on complete feed with a moisture level of 12%.

>Piglets: Suckling and weaned up to 4 weeks after weaning: From 170mg/kg complete feed to 150mg/kg complete feed.
>Piglets from 5 th week after weaning up to 8 weeks after weaning: From 170mg/kg complete feed to 100mg/kg complete feed.
>Initially the EU proposed a sharp drop in inclusion levels. The European Feed Manufacturers’ Federation (Fefac), however, lobbied for a more moderate plan, taking both the environment and animal performance and health into consideration. It is this latest plan that is now approved in the EU.
>lobbied for


>lobbied for


Explain the order of magnitude difference between what the feed industry considers necessary and what is recommended to people.

[Anonymous No.11403369]

>>11403338

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK225400/

the amount that directly enters your body.

[Anonymous No.11403373]

>>11403369
>This chapter focuses on the health effects associated with acute and chronic exposure to excess copper. Information on those effects comes from human case-reports and population-based studies. The emphasis is placed on acute exposure effects on the gastrointestinal (GI) system. Effects on other target organs, such as the liver, in subjects following high-dose chronic exposure and in sensitive populations are considered. Toxicity data from animal studies are presented, and the use of animal models for studying the mechanism underlying the toxicity of copper in humans is discussed.

[Anonymous No.11403378]

>>11403373
feel free to read it. I really don't care what you do, just don't try to poison stupid gullible people when copper toxicity is blatantly researched and documented.

[Anonymous No.11403388]

>>11403369
The numbers in that article are fucking massive.
>Ingestion of ≈ 250 g of CuSO4 (≈ 100 g Cu) in attempted suicide
>eventual recovery

>≈ 400 g of CuSO4 in water over a 4-mo period (≈ 2 g Cu per day)


I don't see how it answers my question.

[Anonymous No.11403401]

>>11403388

Because you're confusing chronic for acute. If you tell someone to take 25mg a day, everyday for years it will build up in your body and damage it. Also you can't account other persons metabolic changes.

[Anonymous No.11403406]

>>11403401
It took somebody four months of eighty times the dose that I recommend to poison themselves.
> it will build up in your body
No it won't. The body can excrete copper.

[Anonymous No.11403416]

>>11403406

Chronic exposure to high levels of copper can result in liver damage and gastrointestinal symptoms (e.g., abdominal pain, cramps, nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting) [10,40]. Copper toxicity is rare in healthy individuals who do not have a hereditary copper homeostasis defect. However, copper toxicity has been reported in people who consume water containing high levels of copper as a result of stagnant water in copper-containing pipes and fixtures as well as copper alloys in water distribution systems and household plumbing that allow copper to leach into water [10,40]. The Environmental Protection Agency has established a recommended upper limit for copper in public water systems of 1.3 mg/L [40,41].

People with Wilson’s disease, a rare, autosomal recessive disease, have a high risk of copper toxicity. Wilson’s disease, which is caused by a mutation in ATP7B, leads to abnormally high tissue levels of copper as a result of defective copper clearance [42]. People with this disease can develop neurologic and liver damage that can result in cirrhosis [1]. Patients can also develop acute hepatitis, hemolytic crisis, and liver failure. Lifelong copper chelation therapy or high doses of zinc can prevent permanent organ damage in these patients.

The FNB has established ULs for copper from food and supplements for healthy individuals based on levels associated with liver damage [10]. The ULs do not apply to individuals who are receiving supplemental copper under medical supervision.

Table 3: Tolerable Upper Intake Levels (ULs) for Copper [10]
Age Male Female Pregnancy Lactation
Birth to 6 months None established* None established*
7–12 months None established* None established*
1–3 years 1,000 mcg 1,000 mcg
4–8 years 3,000 mcg 3,000 mcg
9–13 years 5,000 mcg 5,000 mcg
14–18 years 8,000 mcg 8,000 mcg 8,000 mcg 8,000 mcg
19+ years 10,000 mcg 10,000 mcg 10,000 mcg 10,000 mcg
* Breast milk, formula, and food should be the only sources of copper for infants

[Anonymous No.11403418]

>>11403406
But yes, you're right that your body can excrete it.

But over 10mg daily is putting stress on your liver to the point of damaging it if you do it chronically. There is risk but I guess it depends how bad your arteries are fucked up.

[Anonymous No.11403423]

but here you go. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Copper-HealthProfessional/

Read this and use copper at your own discretion i guess.

[Anonymous No.11403467]

>>11402017
>It seems reasonable to assume it's DBH in the pathway of regulating sodium excretion
>which means the kidneys will excrete sodium even when you are short of it
>resulting in the constant need to eat relatively large amounts when you are copper deficient.
I don't have the expertise to judge any of that. What is DBH? Do you have any sources?

>>11399368
>>11399494
>>11399818
>>11399314
It seems copper both too much and too little copper is tied to alzheimers. The tolerateble upper intake levels of Copper ranges from 10 to 5 mg/day, thus 25mg/day might be overshooting a little bit, or maybe it is fine? I don't know, but I think this shows that Copper-anon isn't drastically wrong about the importance of Copper.
>Copper is an essential trace element in plants and animals, but not all microorganisms. The human body contains copper at a level of about 1.4 to 2.1 mg per kg of body mass.[145]

https://iubmb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/biof.1005
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_toxicity#Alzheimer's_disease
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Deficiency
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper#Nutrition

[Anonymous No.11403515]

>>11403416
Nice! Since
>>11403467
>Copper is an essential trace element in plants and animals
we likely get enough Copper through our food. I am investigating a little right now. I added up the Copper contents in my regular breakfast (oatmeal with condiments). and turns out I get about 1 mg Copper from only that meal alone. Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_in_health#Copper_deficiency
>Vegetarians may have decreased copper intake due to the consumption of plant foods in which copper bioavailability is low.[28][67][68]
I see that Copper content in beef is 0.9mg/100g, but I guess this might vary.
https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3477/2
>One review indicates approximately 25% of adolescents, adults, and people over 65, do not meet the Recommended Dietary Allowance for copper.[7] Another source states less common: a federal survey of food consumption determined that for women and men over the age of 19, average consumption from foods and beverages was 1.11 and 1.54 mg/day, respectively.

[Anonymous No.11403634]

OP, research Ivor Cummins, thank me later.

[Anonymous No.11403647]

>>11403467
>I think this shows that Copper-anon isn't drastically wrong about the importance of Copper
He said aging is an unnatural consequence of our ancestors beginning to use zinc and not getting enough copper and unironically believes our species used to be giants with lifespans measured in multiple THOUSANDS of years before zinc poisoning caused them to shrink and die.

[Anonymous No.11403988]

>>11403647
Yes, you're right. Zinc deficiency seems to be associated with alzheimers as well. And I am changing my opinion on his Copper supplementation recommendation as well. 25mg/day is like 2.5 times the maximum recommended intake. 75% of people get enough Copper through diet, water etc. I have calculated that I consume 2-3 mg/day through my unsupplemented food. Another 1mg/day in my multivitamin. I probably get some from my tap water as well. Not sure how much that is.

[Anonymous No.11404235]

>>11403647
Stop making up lies.

[Anonymous No.11404250]

>>11404235
Read the fucking thread, retard. It's not a lie. That's what he actually believes:
>>11401455
>And an awful lot of human cultures hold that aging didn't used to occur, some even relatively well date that the current lifespan limits were reached in likely the 3rd millenium BC, with a long slow decline before that. Many isolated cultures showed excellent health and often claimed extensive lifespans, only to become very ill and short lived in the next generation.
>>11401607
>Aging and death are unnatural states caused by sin as a result of seeking knowledge and attempting to progress through material rather than metaphysical methodologies for example through craftsmanship rather than prayer.
>This is obvious when reading the bible and realizing that people closer to the Fall of Man were described as giants who lived for thousands of years and as time went on, they gradually shrank and started dying younger while still basically being immature children.
>>11399494
>>/sci/thread/S11005252
>There is no such a thing as aging.
>People started using zinc oxide as "the philosopher's stone" which turned copper into "gold". (brass)
>The zinc started replacing other metals in the body, chiefly cobalt and copper.
>Everyone died.
>Eventually people accepted it's completely normal to die.
>Scientists made a (completely understandable) mistake when they studied essential metals and included zinc in place of cobalt.
>We keep dying to this day.

[Anonymous No.11404251]

>>11403647
Stop making up lies. I said that copper deficiency may cause gigantism (i.e. the recent rise in body size might be a patological result of the deficiency, bot a beneficial result of "better nutrition") and that s9m diseases that are believed to be from aging are actually signs of copper deficiency.

[Anonymous No.11404255]

>>11404250
>sin, fall of man blah blagh
That isn't me, that's the gibberish you keep writing in order to discredit me

[Anonymous No.11404261]

>>11404251
>>11404255
Oh fuck off you schizo. It's not some coincidence you can look up your shit smearing copper theory in a slew of past threads, like they were each written by a different anon who independently came up with the same retardation. Stop pretending. Maybe one anon parodied you with a post in this thread but they were only able to do that because that's what you've actually been posting about, multiple times, for months now.
You're a suggestible idiot who overrates his own understanding of academic literature way too much and you don't realize copper was irrelevant and your mental illness would have resulted in the same nonsense perceived breakthrough discovery obsession on the root of all mankind's ills had some other random subject matter like melatonin or probiotics caught your initial attention before copper did.

[Anonymous No.11404281]

>>11404261
Yes, I'm writing the threads where copoer deficiency is tied to obesity, diabetes and alzheimers (or at least some of them), ocassionally mention other possible effects like deformed teeth, "burnout", ischemic heart disease, like here, or nearsightednes.
The religious gibberish in my threads isn't me. It's either you or somebody else.

[Anonymous No.11404283]

>>11404261
And in fact no, copper emerged as one most probable factor after I waded through at least a dozen of other substances.

[Anonymous No.11404287]

>>11404261
BTW, you still haven't been able to answer why the recommended intake for pigs is orders of magnitude higher and why the industry fights nail and teeth to be allowed to feed so much copper.

[Anonymous No.11404289]

>>11404250
Another recent evidence: the body temperature of people is dropping: https://elifesciences.org/articles/49555
The body temperature of deficient animals also drops (notice the rats also got fat):
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0955286395000625

[Anonymous No.11404325]

BTW, you still haven't been able to answer why the recommended intake for pigs is orders of magnitude higher and why the industry fights so hard to be allowed to feed so much copper.

[Anonymous No.11404510]

>>11399211
>>11399314
>>11404325

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417757/

[Anonymous No.11405715]

>>11403418
>But over 10mg daily is putting stress on your liver to the point of damaging it if you do it chronically.
What is the reason to believe that? Why do all sources for pig nutrition agree on so much more copper?

[Anonymous No.11405731]

>>11405715
Pig nutritionists also agree that pigs are living composters and feeding them anything including shit is fine

[Anonymous No.11405884]

>>11405731
Nobody would waste money on adding anything to feed if they didn't think it's beneficial.

[Anonymous No.11405903]

>>11399211
Go full vegan

[Anonymous No.11405932]

>>11405903
DON'T do this. You'll be forced to eat tons of carbs which is terrible for heart disease.

[Anonymous No.11405964]

>>11404325
>why the recommended intake for pigs is orders of magnitude higher and why the industry fights so hard to be allowed to feed so much copper
Same reason why everyone feeds livestock shit tons of antibiotics. Copper is has antimicrobial action too. Both antibiotics and copper have the benefit of promoting growth, probably through screwing with the bacteria in the animals' intestines. Some of the bacteria killed might have taken away from the potential food energy for these animals had they not been killed. And other bacteria not killed might better thrive without the competing microbes the antibiotics did kill, allowing for them to assist with breaking down intestinal content further and increasing the feed conversion ratio (how much bodyweight is packed on per quantity of feed consumed).
Notice how just like with copper not being fed in large doses to people we also don't keep everyone on constant antibiotic laced grain feeds in the absence of bacterial infection. Because unlike cattle nobody wants to fatten up batches of humans to get better meat yields out of them.
Also in both cases (copper and antibiotics) the result is better understood than the exact mechanism. It's been known for a long time that you get bigger, fatter animals when you keep them on antibiotics despite not being infected with anything. Farmers don't need to know why this happens exactly. It's good enough for them that they've seen it happen many times and they know it's worth it to keep cramming antibiotics down their throats for the sake of that nice feed conversion ratio boost. There's a pretty good couple of standard ideas on how and why it does work, but the truth is nobody cares enough to get it down to an exact science, with there even being potential deterrents to publishing the answer to how it works in the form of making the antibiotic treatments more obviously a form of growth hormone doping and opening the standard practice up to new regulatory red tape.

[Anonymous No.11405980]

>>11405884
>Nobody would waste money on adding anything to feed if they didn't think it's beneficial.
Beneficial to the business doesn't necessarily mean beneficial to the animals.
The herbicide glyphosate (you've probably seen it in the news in those recent multi-billion dollar lawsuits against Monsanto for damages in allowing a probable cancer causing substance to be released for public use without providing adequate warnings on the risks) is allowed in animal feed in quantities more than 100 times what is allowed in grains directly consumed by people.
By your logic the problem is the government suppressing secret knowledge of how humans could become strong and healthy by consuming a 100 times more glyphosate than the permissible limit.
Really you don't want to be using how we treat livestock as your basis for how humans can optimize their own health and well being.
https://medium.com/center-for-biological-diversity/does-meat-contain-pesticides-c587f6b252e7

[Anonymous No.11406108]

>>11399211
Fasting.
Ayauscha.
Deep Emotional introspection.

[Anonymous No.11406157]

>>11406108
Are you trying to help him reverse his clogged arteries or are you trying to help him come to terms with his upcoming sudden coronary death?

[Anonymous No.11406160]

>>11399330
Is this Chef John's father?

[Anonymous No.11406817]

>>11405964
>Same reason why everyone feeds livestock shit tons of antibiotics. Copper is has antimicrobial action too. Both antibiotics and copper have the benefit of promoting growth, probably through screwing with the bacteria in the animals' intestines. Some of the bacteria killed might have taken away from the potential food energy for these animals had they not been killed.
This is a commonly given explanation, but it's unlikely to be true, because the effect occurs even in animals that are also fed antibiotics. This is also true in herbivores, where supressing bacteria would presumably had the opposite effect.
>Because unlike cattle nobody wants to fatten up batches of humans to get better meat yields out of them.
As far as I know there is basically an unanimous agreement that having less fat and more muscle is good for your health.
>Farmers don't need to know why this happens exactly.
To be perfectly honest we don't really know more for people, either.
>Beneficial to the business doesn't necessarily mean beneficial to the animals.
I'm pretty sure it does. Healthy animals mean profit, ill animals mean losses.
Your rant about glyphosate is irrelevant, glyphosate is used to HARM the plants you don't want to be growing in your fields.

[Anonymous No.11406885]

>>11405932
Bullshit

[Anonymous No.11407140]

>>11405980
That's because such contaminated feed is cheaper, it isn't being added to it on purpose.

[Anonymous No.11407151]

>>11406817
Healthy animals does not mean profit. In general, they are selling mass and not wellness.

[Anonymous No.11407199]

>>11405980
>>11407151
Copper is added to feed on purpose, because all the evidence shows it makes the animals stronger, leaner and healthier. What sense would it make to add to feeds something that makes the animals worse off?

[Anonymous No.11407597]

>>11407199
>Copper is added to feed on purpose, because all the evidence shows it makes the animals stronger, leaner and healthier.
No it doesn't. It's added to feed because it *increases* weight. It doesn't make them "leaner."
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327594171_Antimicrobial_promotion_of_pig_growth_is_associated_with_tissue-specific_remodeling_of_bile_acid_signature_and_signaling
>For more than 50 years, low doses of antibiotics either alone or in combination with pharmacological levels of heavy metals (i.e., zinc and copper) have been widely used in swine production to accelerate growth.
>A number of studies have shown that AMA-induced weight gain is accompanied by alterations in gut microbial ecology, which frequently entails suppression of gram-positive commensals and proliferation of bacterial communities with enhanced capacity for dietary energy harvest. These changes include increased lipid absorption by the host owing to reduced activity of bacterial bile salt hydrolases (BSH) and the associated deconjugation of bile salts in the intestine.
>What sense would it make to add to feeds something that makes the animals worse off?
Go read about gavage in foie gras, or how chicken are fattened up so rapidly and kept so sedentary that their legs break under the weight. The goal with meat in general is to minimize cost and maximize the yield of usable meat. These goals aren't the same thing as trying to make the animals "better off."

[Anonymous No.11407670]

>>11407597
That paper is not even about copper.

>It doesn't make them "leaner."
See the rat paper above. 7.5% on high copper vs. 10.2 on copper deficient diet. Here is a similar study with rabbits: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/16546628.2017.1348866

[Anonymous No.11407717]

>>11407670
I quoted the part about copper in that paper. Here, have some more:
https://www.nationalhogfarmer.com/nutrition/finish-pigs-better-copper
>Copper-fed pigs weighed more and had higher hot carcass weights (HCW) compared to pigs fed a control diet that did not include copper.
>Final live weight for pigs fed 150 ppm TBCC was 12.8 lb. heavier than the negative control diet, and those fed 150 ppm copper sulfate were 7.1 lb. heavier. Increased final weight combined with no differences in carcass yield for the copper-fed pigs led to an increase in HCW for pigs fed increasing levels of copper. Specifically, pigs fed 150 ppm TBCC had 7.7-lb. heavier carcasses, and pigs fed 75 ppm copper sulfate had 3.1-lb. heavier carcasses.
https://www.feednavigator.com/Article/2018/02/28/Pig-performance-may-see-boost-but-mode-of-action-remains-aloof-in-copper-feeding-trial
>Additive copper hydroxychloride in weaned pigs may improve weight gain and performance, but the exact mechanism involved remains unclear.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4613-0723-5_222
>High levels of dietary copper (125 to 250 ppm) are used routinely in Europe (Braude, 1967) and the USA (Wallace, 1967) to promote weight gain of growing pigs. The growth response of pigs to high copper feeding is similar to that of subtherapeutic levels of antibiotics and is a consistent and inexpensive positive response.

[Anonymous No.11407719]

>>11399211
K2 and CoQ10. Don't megadose tho.

[Anonymous No.11407776]

>>11399211
>>11401569

12 raw egg yolks every day from pasture raised sources. stop eating plants. get more raw dairy and raw animal fats.

also stop listening to dumb niggers like these:
>>11399314
>>11399330
>>11399382
>>11399583
>>11399692
>>11402000
>>11403234
>>11404510
>>11405903
>>11407719
Cholesterol is needed to clean arteries, however it blocks them when it is oxidised through cooking or is fighting particularly tough calcifications due to eating too many indigestible plant oils.

[Anonymous No.11407960]

>>11407717
I cited two studies which show that yes, the animals are heavier, but less fat.

[Anonymous No.11408020]

>>11399211
Bromelain dissolves blood clots made from fibrin but I'm sure there are other types of arterial clogs it does nothing for. But it wouldn't hurt to eat more pinneapple, in addition to the usual common sense things like reducing processed fat intake (ie from processed foods) and exercise etc.

[Anonymous No.11408675]

>>11407776
>zero sources
>going against existing sources
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/cholesterol/

[Anonymous No.11409001]

>>11401516
>Only if you discard all the ancient records claiming otherwise.
what about ancient records of flat earth and elemental gods?

[Anonymous No.11409015]

>>11407776
giving this advice to someone like OP is literally likely to kill him
do you not feel responsible for your actions?

[Anonymous No.11409042]

>>11399211
I know you're in a difficult situation OP and I'm sorry, it must be very difficult to you knowing you could have a devastating stroke any moment.
I also noticed there's many contradicting information in this thread. I don't know how to make what I'm about to say not seem just like that without putting you through a years long education on all the studies in nutrition science, but science is pretty much unequivocal on the fact that heart disease is entirely reversible with a plant based diet. If you want some sources I think the best way would be to look up Nutritionfacts channel on YouTube, he goes over many studies in his videos. Once again I'm sorry you have to go through this.

[Anonymous No.11409047]

>>11409001
You can't claim there are no records while comparing all the records that claim otherwise with myths.

[Anonymous No.11409055]

>>11408675
>https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/cholesterol/
Lol See the relevant episode of the yourtube vegan deterioration channel for the catastrophic decline in the health of the zealot in charge of the site.

[Anonymous No.11409061]

>>11399211
Plaque can be slowly removed. But in fact stable old plaque is not the problem. The preponderance of risk is from new, unstable, growing plaque. So do not lose heart.

Protip: there is no solid evidence that statins do any good. Since the rules were changed to make it harder to stop rigging drug trials, the results have been a nothing sandwich.

[Anonymous No.11409063]

>>11407717
so if i wanna get SWOLE i ought to eat copper?

[Anonymous No.11409142]

>>11409047
w-...what?
how the fuck does that answer my question?

[Anonymous No.11409156]

>>11409055
I saw it right now. The differences aren't that huge considering he has been getting older and the images can be cherry-picked or even shooped. He has been a vegan for all of his adult life, so the premise of this comparison is bogus.

[Anonymous No.11409336]

>>11408675
I don't eat sauces.

[Anonymous No.11409341]

>>11409015
Because you said so, or because it goes against what you believe? Should he go vegan? Or maybe eat a (((balanced diet)))? You will not die from eating healthy egg yolks you fucking retard. It's literally like giving yourself stem cells.

[Anonymous No.11409348]

>>11399211
Feeding rabbits meat causes plaque build up. Feeding dogs grains and veg does the same.
Now decide whether you're a rabbit or a dog.

[Anonymous No.11409438]

>>11407776

>i'm right bro

>sources: trust me bro.

We have an educated 4channer everyone.

[Anonymous No.11409475]

Is there even any evidence that shows cholesterol has anything to do with clogged arteries? From what I understand it's calcium. Vitamin D mobilizes calcium but if you don't have K2 it doesn't get into the bones and can accumulate in your arteries. Maybe someone else knows differently this topic isn't one I am really read up on. Also from what I have read, it's carbs and fat together that deposits fat into muscles and arteries. Does someone know anything about this? Insulin spikes causing fat to be stored improperly? So maybe a "balanced" diet isn't great, meats and vegetables should be eaten at separate times. I think it's stupid to assume one or the other. How can vegan be a good diet if you need to supplement with synthetic vitamins, and vice versa?

[Anonymous No.11409706]

>>11407776
>Cholesterol is needed to clean arteries, however it blocks them when it is oxidised through
Eating cholesterol
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001684
Total and especially saturated fat
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10958817

Psuedoscience hippie bullshit like grass-fed, organic, raw etc isn't going to help when the food is fundamentally bad for the heart, regardless of its quality.

Eat plants

[Anonymous No.11409709]

>>11409348

this. humans are frugivore, we are not meant to eat meat.

[Anonymous No.11409728]

>>11409475
>Is there even any evidence that shows cholesterol has anything to do with clogged arteries?
Sure. Here's a 5 part series on how the consensus about LDL cholesterol came to be, including why people at one point were skeptical, and then the research breakthroughs that ended virtually all skepticism.
https://www.jlr.org/content/45/9/1583.full.pdf
https://www.jlr.org/content/46/2/179.full.pdf
https://www.jlr.org/content/46/10/2037.full.pdf
https://www.jlr.org/content/47/1/1.full.pdf
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b8a8/d8c8bb3fdea01e2f0be5123b41b261544cf7.pdf

This study with multiple research methods, including mandelian randomization, also establishes a consensus that the data is tight enough to be able to say that LDL cholesterol not only is involved in heart disease but is, in itself, causal
https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/38/32/2459/3745109

There's also the fact that every animal species ever tested has developed heart disease just by raising cholesterol high enough. Even carnivorous animals, who naturally have bodily processes that help prevent its cholesterol from rising after eating meat and animal fat, if you can bypass those mechanisms (deactivating the thyroid is one used in dogs and cats), will develop heart disease with high LDL cholesterol and no other risk factors, while no other risk factor in the absence of high LDL cholesterol can cause heart disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

[Anonymous No.11409861]

>>11401516
>ancient records claiming otherwise
Are you talking about the fucking Bible, lad?

[Anonymous No.11409905]

>>11401743

You've probably had enough of the copper mate.

[Anonymous No.11409938]

A zero carb, high fiber diet, with bouts of fasting is the only way to reverse heart disease.

[Anonymous No.11410104]

>>11409861
>>11409905
Bible is not exceptional.
Sumerian kings and Persian shahs show the same decline.
The four ages of man, as well as the indian four yugas insist on the decline.
Old emperors and cultural heroes in China, Vietnam etc also show remarkable, occasionally "impossible" longevity.
Caucasus and a few other mountain ranges still calimed lifespans way over 100 until recently.
An overwhelming majority of cultures treated old people as wise until very recently, rather than usually demented as they are today.
Death of old age even seems absent or denied is some cultures, as if it didn't use to occur until recently.

[Anonymous No.11411434]

Somewhere I heard walnuts, but you'll have to look it up and don't tase me if the memory was faulty.

[Anonymous No.11412658]

>>11411434
What does this thread have to do with walnuts?

[Anonymous No.11412701]

>>11399211
you need to alkalinisize your body. drink bleach

[Anonymous No.11412710]

>>11399211
Have you tried fasting / keto yet?

[Anonymous No.11412734]

>>11407776
based retard

[Anonymous No.11412757]

>>11412710
Don't say fasting / keto like they're the same thing. Fasting has health benefits

[Anonymous No.11412769]

>>11412757
Fasting is better but can't be done long-term. Keto has slightly less of an impact but biochemically the same benefits.

[Anonymous No.11412791]

>>11412769
What sort of keto diet do you have in mind? Most keto foods people usually promote are bad for the heart, and many foods you have to avoid to enter ketosis are good for the heart

[Anonymous No.11412813]

>>11412791
What the fuck are you on about? Everything keto is good for the heart. Ketosis itself is amazing for the heart.

[Anonymous No.11412819]

>>11412769
>>11412813
Keto is absolutely bad for everything and has no benefits. The only reason some people think it's good is because their normal metabolism is so screwed up that being in ketosis feels beter.

[Anonymous No.11412822]

>>11412769
>>11412813
Keto is awful for everything and has no benefits. The only reason some people think it's good is because their normal metabolism is so screwed up that being in ketosis feels beter than that.

[Anonymous No.11412826]

>>11412822
Shitty bait.

[Anonymous No.11412828]

>>11412813
>Everything keto is good for the heart
Things like bacon, cheese, lard, eggs, pork, etc obviously aren't
> Ketosis itself is amazing for the heart.
The problem with most research on the health benefits of ketosis in non-epileptics is that a study will take morbidly obese people who eat a diet of candy and bacon and then remove the candy, and they'll lose a bit of weight and see some health improvements. This isn't evidence that a ketogenic diet is healthy just because it's not as bad as something worse. Someone with established heart disease like OP needs a more substantial improvement.

It would be like recommending OP start drinking Sprite because of a study saying that coca-cola drinkers who switched to drinking Sprite (which has less sugar/calories) lost a few pounds and saw marginal improvements in triglycerides and HbA1c. It wouldn't mean Sprite has health benefits and that someone with diabetes could stand to gain from adding it to their diet.

[Anonymous No.11412852]

>>11412828
>obviously aren't

So everything your grandparents ate and lived till 100 is suddenly bad? Okay retard. There's no science behind "obviously bad", it's obviously not bad.

[Anonymous No.11412857]

>>11412852
Don't do that stupid "everyone used to drink a gallon of liquor a day, smoke 10 packs of cigarettes, and eat nothing but salted pork all day and they all lived to be 200 years old, so stop looking at actual data to make scientific statements" shit

[Anonymous No.11412865]

>>11412826
not bait

[Anonymous No.11412894]

>>11412857
> actual data to make scientific statements

Yeah, why don't you go look at the actual data retard? It shows keto is the best thing for the human body and has been for thousands of years.

[Anonymous No.11412927]

>>11412894
>pic
Oh, you're one of those retards who watched some conspiracy theory video on youtube that misrepresented the topic to form a false narrative.

>1977 USDA dietary guidelines
Do you realize these same guidelines told people to eat less sugar? Is that what happened? People are fat because they don't eat enough sugar because the government said not to? People always base their diets on what health recommendations say to eat, not whatever the fuck they're hungry for, right? You fucking non-thinking, know-nothing idiot
>keto... thousands of years
Even the few human populations that live on high fat would-be-keto diets, like the Inuit and Maasai, have adapted in order to avoid going into ketosis, much like carnivorous animals have, because ketosis is a metabolic disease that doesn't promote fertility or survival. You go into ketosis when you've got untreated diabetes, can't stop vomiting, are starving for a prolonged period of time, or suddenly lose access to the carbohydrates necessary to maintain an efficient metabolic system. It's not some cool body hack that nobody wants you to know about because it makes you too healthy or whatever stupid conspiracist shit your dumb ass believes. God DAMN it you're a retard and you don't even know how fucking retarded you are because you're so retarded that you never even stopped to think "maybe I should look more into this to make sure I'm not being a giant retard" fucking idiot that you are

[Anonymous No.11412934]

>>11412927
>Do you realize these same guidelines told people to eat less sugar? Is that what happened?

Carbohydrates are the same as sugar you fucking moron. Don't you know anything about basic human science? Fuck. Read a book.

[Anonymous No.11412965]

>>11412934
>carbohydrates is sugar, durr!
A monosaccharide is the same thing as a polysaccharide, retard? Sucrose and β-glucan are the same substance with the same health effects, you idiot? You fucking dumb retard. You fucking idiot so lazy that he doesn't even look a fucking degree beyond an image he found on the internet before trying to proselytize about it like he's never been more sure of something in his life. Yes, the guidelines you're saying made people fat told people to cut down on their sugar intake. Is sugar deficiency the cause of obesity in America? Is that what you think, you dumb fuck? Otherwise don't post stupid shit like that like it's some kind of mind-blowing exposé. You're not informed, you're just fucking stupid and gullible, relying on dumb shit rhetoric you don't even understand to ignore other shit you couldn't understand even if you tried. Fucking dumb idiot

[Anonymous No.11413178]

>>11399211
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_miltiorrhiza

Can this flower help?

[Anonymous No.11413195]

>>11399211
Death is not the end OP, it is only the beginning.

[Anonymous No.11413199]

>>11412894

read it and weep, ketotard

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/

[Anonymous No.11413202]

>>11412934

>Carbohydrates are the same as sugar

[Anonymous No.11414236]

>>11412927
>>11412934
>>11412965
>>11413202
Sugar is only bad because fructose depletes copper.

[Anonymous No.11414432]

I feel bad for OP, this is one of the most schizod threads I have ever seen on so many levels

[Anonymous No.11414642]

>146 replies
alright so can someone just sum up the answer?

[Anonymous No.11415310]

>>11412658
I said you'd have to look it up and you didn't, and now I've had to look it up. I didn't get very far, just the first google hit but... "Walnuts help maintain healthy cholesterol levels and decrease blood pressure, two of the major risk factors for heart disease. They are also a rich source of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) which is the plant-based omega-3 fatty acid. Walnuts contain 2.5 grams of ALA per ounce. Research has found that omega-3 fatty acids may decrease the inflammatory marker C-reactive protein (CRP) in those with high cholesterol.3

Inflammation plays a major role in the development of atherosclerosis.4 Finally, when eaten as part of a Mediterranean dietary pattern (a diet rich in fish, vegetables, fruits, whole grains, olive oil and nuts, legumes and beans) walnuts may lower risk of both heart disease and stroke. A recent study shows that, among persons at high cardiovascular risk, a Mediterranean diet supplemented with extra-virgin olive oil or nuts, including walnuts, reduced the incidence of major cardiovascular events.5"

[Anonymous No.11415503]

>>11414642
For someone who has established atherosclerosis like OP, the best proven diet is one very low in fat and cholesterol, high in fiber and vegetables, possibly with the aid of statin drugs if dietary changes aren't effective enough at lowering LDL. It's strict but it's the only one that's been shown to actually get the plaque out of the artery instead of just slowing down the process. He may be able to talk to his doctor about the Ornish Program for help on this.

[Anonymous No.11415517]

bowel tolerance vitamin c and niacin via doctoryourselfdotcom, the c helps heal the leisions the plaque is covering up and the niacin is a natural blood thinner. also fasting via jason fung and cold stress via wim hoff, eat healthy animal fats and reduce sugar to minimum, dont have a sitting job

[Anonymous No.11415522]

>>11415517
Supplements aren't going to do anything noticeable, it's the whole diet and lifestyle you have to change.
Although, since you say healthy animal fat, fish/krill oil might be good. Any other animal fat, ditch.

[Anonymous No.11415642]

>>11415503
>For someone who has established atherosclerosis like OP, the best proven diet is one very low in fat and cholesterol, high in fiber and vegetables, possibly with the aid of statin drugs if dietary changes aren't effective enough at lowering LDL.
Stop telling the truth, anon. The only way we're going to end this keto meme is if they all learn firsthand what happens when you fall for a fad diet and eat like a retard.

[Anonymous No.11415650]

>>11415517

animal fat causes heart disease and diabetes in humans

[Anonymous No.11416576]

>>11399211
Eat stuff with vitamin K.

[Anonymous No.11417000]

>>11416576
Why? Isn't it pr

[Anonymous No.11417002]

>>11417000
Oduced by gut bacteria?

[Anonymous No.11417083]

>>11415650
This is the most jewish shit I've ever seen. You can't detoxify the body with plants. Only animal fat does that. Your brain runs on fat. We're meant to eat animals head to toe. Try one whole raw lambs liver and see how you feel in half an hour. Don't listen to these fucking speckly soulless jewish little cunts trying to make you eat a nigger diet.

[Anonymous No.11417092]

>>11417083
This is the definition of misinformation.

[Anonymous No.11417126]

>>11417092
So say how and why.

[Anonymous No.11417171]

>>11399211
I read that when you go far enough with a keto diet your build up in your arteries gets turned into energy as well.
That's the point just before your body starts eating itself beyond the fat you wanted to lose

[Anonymous No.11417177]

>>11415650
>too much animal fat causes heart disease and diabetes in humans

Fixed.

[Anonymous No.11417193]

>>11403305
This nigga looks like a gold prospector who died in 1840 and was recently exhumed

[Anonymous No.11417194]

>>11417171
That doesn't make sense

[Anonymous No.11417195]

>>11409341
eggs are one of the top foods for raising stroke risk...

[Anonymous No.11417213]

>>11417126
Plants have compounds that improve your body's detoxification mechanisms. Broccoli is a classic example with the compound sulforaphane, which aids the liver. Animal fat, if anything, interferes with your body's homeostasis and can induce endotoxemia. Your brain is mostly fat but this is fat your body makes. Your body doesn't take lard you eat and lubricate your brain with it. That's as stupid as saying "if you don't eat animal eyeballs, you won't be able to see"

[Anonymous No.11417214]

>>11409341
What are healthy egg yolks and why are they different from regular egg yolks?

[Anonymous No.11417306]

>>11417213
Nice try kike. Plant compounds are not bio-available to humans, that's why you would be a retard for eating raw broccoli (which doesn't exist naturally anyway), so you have to cook it and eat tonnes of the shit for even a small amount of those compounds. Your body cannot make fat from plants. Lard is cooked fat and oxidised. Your body would absorb eyeballs and use those nutrients to restore your own eyesight.
You're a fucking kike nigger and it's laughable that there's literally a paid group of lying cocksuckers like you just out to subvert the Truth for the sake of it. Neck yourself you soulless gimp nigger.

>>11417214
Chickens fed grubs and mice will produce a lot better eggs than those on grain.

[Anonymous No.11417311]

>>11417195
Only when cooked.

[Anonymous No.11417339]

>>11417306
>Nice try kike. Plant compounds are not bio-available to humans
Some aren't, many are. Sulforaphone is.
>Your body cannot make fat from plants
De novo lipogenesis
>Your body would absorb eyeballs and use those nutrients to restore your own eyesight.
Right, and you wouldn't specifically need to eat eyeballs. Your body wouldn't take the eye you eat and morph it into your own eye. Your body uses nutrients to synthesize its own parts.
>You're a fucking kike nigger and it's laughable that there's literally a paid group of lying cocksuckers like you just out to subvert the Truth for the sake of it.
Believe dumbass conspiracist shit you read on the internet doesn't make you a defender of truth. You're peddling rhetoric and talking points straight from the quack supplement sellers and psuedoscience diet book author shills in defense of major agricultural industries and acting like you're some underdog fighting the system.
>Chickens fed grubs and mice will produce a lot better eggs than those on grain.
"A lot better" in what specific sense? One that will make it not unhealthy? How so?

[Anonymous No.11417371]

>>11417339
You're disconnected from nature and cannot look at the world without tearing it apart with your kike mind. You wouldn't want to not eat eyeballs if you had the opportunity in nature. I don't take supplements and my reference is nature before kikes had a say.

[Anonymous No.11417372]

>>11417371
You lose.

Next.

[Anonymous No.11417400]

>>11417372
There was never a competition, that's the point. You only ever argue with yourself. But you are a kike so you never learn anything, you just repeat what you're told to and point at science and link studies.

[Anonymous No.11417407]

>>11417400
>I never had an argument to begin with, so I didn't lose!
Okay, kid

[Anonymous No.11417410]

>>11417407
>Doesn't know how to argue.
>Gets mad

[Anonymous No.11417412]

>>11417410
>loses argument
>claims he didn't even have a point

[Anonymous No.11417414]

>>11417306
>Plant compounds are not bio-available to humans
Do understand the generality of this of statement? What is bioavailability?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioavailability
"In pharmacology, bioavailability (BA or F) is a subcategory of absorption and is the fraction of an administered dose of unchanged drug that reaches the systemic circulation, one of the principal pharmacokinetic properties of drugs. By definition, when a medication is administered intravenously, its bioavailability is 100%."

You statement is equivalent to saying that no matter how much of any plant compound you eat, 0% will end up in your blood circulation. To disprove this statement I only need to mention 1 such plant compound. Luckily I have hundreds of thousands if not millions to choose from. For example glucose which is the most abundant carbohydrate.

[Anonymous No.11417432]

>>11417412
I'd be mad if I were a kike too.

You can take my statement absolutely or generally, that is your call. Just because you end up with some of the compound doesn't mean it is part of your optimal natural diet.

[Anonymous No.11417435]

>>11417414
>>11417432

[Anonymous No.11417438]

>>11417432
Hey, you're the one begging to eat my shit to prevent heart disease, haha

[Anonymous No.11417443]

>>11417438
I am. Mail me some of your shit please. I want to gorge on your feces with my celtic beard. I hope you've been eating lots of plants because I don't like to chew.

[Anonymous No.11417458]

>>11417432
I take it as both, and you have given zero evidence to either.

[Anonymous No.11417479]

>>11417458
Ah yes, evidence. The kike's only way of navigating reality. Aha evidence. Retard.

[Anonymous No.11417519]

Relating to this, it was neat to learn they were finding old age artery plaque in mummies from Egypt and the Andes to mummified Alaskan natives. It could be diet but that would be a hell of a thing to tie all those peoples together. Egyptian wouldn't have eaten as much meat as the Alaskan, the Andean wouldn't have eaten as much meat as the Egyptian.

[Anonymous No.11417534]

>>11417519
>It could be diet but that would be a hell of a thing to tie all those peoples together
Many things contribute to heart disease. The egyptians who were mummified would've been higher ranking members of society, who were sedentary and ate lots of milk, meat, cake, and honey

[Anonymous No.11417752]

>>11417534
Yea cuz plants don't clog arteries lmao

[Anonymous No.11417781]

>>11417752
Some do, but not wheat, beans, and vegetables like the working class egyptians lived on

[Anonymous No.11417920]

>>11417781
kek

[Anonymous No.11417923]

>>11417920
There's 0 evidence to suggest otherwise. Even you seem to acknowledge that. "It's not about evidence, it's about what you feel"

[Anonymous No.11417979]

>>11403305
Papa Smurf is alive and well I see.

[Anonymous No.11417985]

>>11401738
My dad has had a heart attack this month. He has high cholesterol and used to take statins. After the attack he keeps taking em. I showed him all the publications where cholesterol hypothesis is argued and refered him to statins NNT and said that with this shit he ll not only have a syent but will also need diabetes and his nuts will go totally dry.
His response was: well then Ill get me some insulin and T-patches, statins are approved by my doctor. Statin hype is everywhwre.
> t. russia anob

[Anonymous No.11418038]

>>11417923
>>11417985

It's a balanced diet that kills.

[Anonymous No.11418210]

>>11418038
A balanced diet isn't a perfect diet but it's leagues better than the "eat nothing but fat and pretend to be a caveman" diet

[Anonymous No.11418215]

>>11418210
Enjoy your plants nigger.

[Anonymous No.11418216]

>>11417985
>dad has heart attack
>tries to talk him out of the medication necessary to save his life
You are bad son. What are all these crackpot publications you're referring to? Some Uffe Ravnskov cherrypicked shit that you don't analyze past the abstract?

[Anonymous No.11418220]

>>11418216
If you could english properly I might be convinced. Take pills dad. Have some processed jew chems dad.

[Anonymous No.11418225]

>>11418220
What are the publications, son?

[Anonymous No.11418241]

>>11418225
Publications? What is this schizophrenic shit you talk of dad?

[Anonymous No.11418247]

>>11418241
>I showed him all the publications where cholesterol hypothesis is argued
It is the fucking Uffe Ravnskov paper, isn't it? Ahahahahaha.

[Anonymous No.11418267]

>>11418247
I don't live my life by papers scribe-nigger.

[Anonymous No.11418295]

>>11418267
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.11418337]

>>11417339
>>Chickens fed grubs and mice will produce a lot better eggs than those on grain.
>"A lot better" in what specific sense? One that will make it not unhealthy? How so?
Usually they taste better and are more nutritious. Chickens are omnivorous, and the quality of their diet is reflected in their egg.

[Anonymous No.11418350]

>>11418337
I'll give you that they taste marginally better but that's about it. It's not some night and day, whole-different-food experience

[Anonymous No.11418475]

>>11418350
Taste is a lie. Eat for effect.

[Anonymous No.11418524]

>>11418475
Effect is the same

[Anonymous No.11419119]

>>11418524
Lie.

[Anonymous No.11419453]

>>11419119
Any research you can post to compare their health effects?

[Anonymous No.11419766]

>>11407776
This. Eating plants is unironically a waste of time. Don't fall for the ops like many nuboys and shit are doing nowadays.

HIGH FAT, HIGH PROTEIN, LOW SUGAR.

[Anonymous No.11419785]

stop consuming plant fats
/thread

[Anonymous No.11420186]

>>11419453
No. Do your own research. Fucking eat them and try you scared little nigger.

[Anonymous No.11420283]

>>11401607
>Aging and death are unnatural states caused by sin
True
>everything after the first sentence
Not true

Craftmanship bad? Jesus was literally a carpenter. Get real.

[Anonymous No.11420571]

>>11406885
Cope

[Anonymous No.11420757]

>>11399211
Atherectomy. Keep in mind that plaque tends to not be like a clump of crap on the inside of a PVC pipe in your sink, it's usually part tissue. This means this procedure will probably have some scarring result.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherectomy

[Anonymous No.11420879]

>>11420186
So the effect you're referring to is the placebo effect

[Anonymous No.11420910]

>>11409042
Specifically, you should look into Esselstyn, whose research suggests the actual reversal of heart disease on a whole-foods plant-based diet.

[Anonymous No.11420994]

>>11420879
There are no different effects from raw and cooked foods? You're retarded buddy. Eat shit and die.
>>11419785
Thread indeed

[Anonymous No.11421050]

So much retardation in this thread. OP, the absolute best thing you can do is fix your lifestyle habits. Lose weight, start eating more plants, and find a way to enjoy trail running. Your life will improve tenfold

[Anonymous No.11421060]

>>11421050
You can't lose weight without fixing the copper intake, so just eat copper. It's just completely pointless otherwise, you will lose lean weight and still be fat. Even anorexics are just skinnyfat. Eat copper
If you are serious dieter, you will be ravenous for protein foods for quite some time. Most of that will go to lean weight, so don't be worried to eat.

[Anonymous No.11421063]

>>11421050
You can't lose weight without fixing the copper intake, so just eat copper. It's just completely pointless otherwise, you will lose lean weight and still be fat. Even anorexics are just skinnyfat. Eat copper
If you are a serious dieter, you will be ravenous for protein foods for quite some time. Most of that will go to lean weight, so don't be worried to eat.

[Anonymous No.11421093]

>>11418216
https://www.thennt.com/nnt/statins-for-heart-disease-prevention-without-prior-heart-disease-2/

[Anonymous No.11421125]

>>11421050
>>11421063
>>11421093
Obligatory truth twisting threads, thanks for the bumps jews. I wouldn't be surprised if this is Simnett nutrition, the fucking soulless freak.

[Anonymous No.11421145]

>>11421093
Fuck off with your bullshit statins.
>>11421125
I'm not twisting any truths. The food industry bullshit propaganda is, they want people to be helpless and not able to lose weight and keep buying more food. It's in literally nobody's financial interest that people lose wight.

[Anonymous No.11421164]

>>11421063
>You can't lose weight without fixing the copper intake
>you will lose lean weight and still be fat. Even anorexics are just skinnyfat.
Goddamn you're dumb.

[Anonymous No.11421193]

>>11421145
you can't get fat from eating meat. gaining unhealthy weight is all carbs (plants)

[Anonymous No.11421205]

>>11399211
If you are in usa seriously move out, food from there is worst, highly processed crap. Stop drinking sweet soda, do not eat sugar in any form (you have enough of that added to everything from bread to meat). Same with salt, it is in every meat (to hold more injected water).

Do exercising but on slower rate and for longer time, you want to burn fat slowly. With fast exercising body switches to sugar while doing it slow you use fat for energy. So best is walking for long time, or slow swimming.

Do some fasting every few days.

[Anonymous No.11421208]

>>11421164
Dumb how? Anorexics are still falbby until they are basically just walking skeleton. I think it's even what pushes most to keep losing weight. Because they want to get thin and lean, but never do and get flabby thin instead, so they keep losing weight.
>>11421193
Nonsense.

[Anonymous No.11421243]

>>11420994
>There are no different effects from raw and cooked foods?
First it was about food quality, now it's about raw vs cooked. What effect does raw egg have then, aside from having less bioavailable nutrients?

[Anonymous No.11421255]

>>11399211
FemAnon on here...
You're pic made me think of a tampon lol

[Anonymous No.11421269]

>>11421255
Of course the woman would think of a tampon. That's all you women think about

[Anonymous No.11421283]

>>11421193
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.393.9208&rep=rep1&type=pdf
https://www.pnas.org/content/112/24/7466
explain please
>Body fat among females that could be dissected from the necropsied trunk and limbs ranges from less than 1–8.6%, whereas all males had negligible amounts in these regions, less than 0.01%, an observation we noted during dissections.
>>11421205
>Do exercising
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0040503
>As expected, physical activity level, PAL, was greater among Hadza foragers than among Westerners.
>Nonetheless, average daily energy expenditure of traditional Hadza foragers was no different than that of Westerners after controlling for body size.

[Anonymous No.11421285]

>>11421269
Das rite. They think nothing but tampons. It's all tampons for them. Nothing but endless tampons.
t. knower

[Anonymous No.11421413]

>>11417306
Why do you memebrain retards leave your containment boards?
>>>/pol/
>>>/fit/
>>>/r9k/

[Anonymous No.11421503]

>>11399211
Dietary fiber. Eat black beans.

Also, LDL cholestorol helps. The gunky stuff is soluble in it.

[Anonymous No.11421626]

>>11421125
>>11421145
> bullshit statins
Huh? Are you against statins or statin deniers? Sumwun asked me who says statins are not effective, so I peovided a link to a source aggregator, that says they dont prevent shit and are actually harmful in HA prevention applications.

[Anonymous No.11421941]

>http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.393.9208&rep=rep1&type=pdf
>https://www.pnas.org/content/112/24/7466
These aren't experiments and they're looking at bonobos
>https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0040503
Also not an experiment and they mention that in actual experiments, exercise does show benefit to weight loss
"It is important to note that this was not an intervention study; we examined habitual TEE, PAL, and body composition in hunter-gatherers and Westerners, but did not examine the effects of imposing increased physical activity on Westerners. Physical activity has important, positive effects on health [39], and increased physical activity has been shown to play an important role in weight loss and weight-maintenance programs"

[Anonymous No.11422042]

>>11421941
Bonobos eat carbs and are 0% fat.

The other study's point is that hunter gatherers burn the same amount of energy as we do.

[Anonymous No.11422310]

>>11422042
Bonobos aren't humans though
>The other study's point is that hunter gatherers burn the same amount of energy as we do.
Which isn't a point relevant to the post it was posted in response to

[Anonymous No.11422317]

>>11421243
Anything cooked has less nutrients than raw. Stop being retarded.

>>11421283
Give me one carnivore in nature that is unhealthily fat like humans are. You can't.

>>11421413
Kike

>>11421503
Don't eat fibre or beans, this person is retarded or jewish. Or both.

>>11421626
Eating the right diet you would not need anything other than the diet. Retarded.

What causes the build up of shit in your arteries? First we have to ask, what IS the stuff in your arteries? Is cholesterol in there? Yes. Why? Trying to help clear it of all the indigestible plant parts. Biology is quite simple. Eat what you're meant to and you won't get ill, like every other fucking animal. Fuck jews. Fuck atheists. Fuck you niggers trying to bring le science into it.

[Anonymous No.11422347]

>>11422317
>Is cholesterol in there? Yes. Why? Trying to help clear it of all the indigestible plant parts. Biology is quite simple
Hahahaha

[Anonymous No.11422351]

>>11422347
Jew

[Anonymous No.11422368]

>>11422317
Is it more nutritious if you cook my sperm before you eat it or would you rather it raw?

[Anonymous No.11422437]

>>11422317
Do you even read what others say?
If you genuinely want to promote your ideas, you are not doing a good job

[Anonymous No.11422915]

>>11422310
>Bonobos aren't humans though
They are as close as you can get to human, and they eat virtually the same kind of food most people ate in most recorded history - super high carb, with some rare occasional meat.
>Which isn't a point relevant to the post it was posted in response to
It absolutely is relevant to the post because the post reccomended excercising, while this shudy shows that even such people don't burn any more than we do. It seems basically that unless you can outrun your thermogenesis (which would require some pretty outlandish, if not impossible amount of effort) it just doesn't make any difference on how much you burn.

[Anonymous No.11422917]

>>11422310
>Bonobos aren't humans though
They are as close as you can get to human, and they eat virtually the same kind of food most people ate in most recorded history - super high carb, with some rare occasional meat.
>Which isn't a point relevant to the post it was posted in response to
It absolutely is relevant to the post because the post reccomended excercising, while this shudy shows that even such people don't burn any more than we do. It seems basically that unless you can outrun your thermogenesis (which would require some pretty outlandish, if not impossible amount of effort) it just doesn't make any difference on how much you burn.
>>11422317
Give me any animal in nature that is.

[Anonymous No.11423023]

>>11399211
>Is there anything I can do to dislodge and break up arterial plaque?

No. Don't worry about that shit anon. Time moves in one direction. Death is guaranteed.

[Anonymous No.11423761]

>>11422917
>They are as close as you can get to human
No, human is as close as you can get to human, and there's about a billion times more research on humans than bonobos, so why didn't you cite human research?
>It absolutely is relevant to the post because the post reccomended excercising, while this shudy shows that even such people don't burn any more than we do.
No, it shows that "even such people" don't exercise as much as you think. It doesn't mean an exercise regiment can't increase weight loss. When I use my stationary bike, I'll burn ~600 calories in 45 minutes. That's the equivalent of a medium-sized meal and would absolutely benefit weight loss if paired with a reasonable diet

[Anonymous No.11423771]

>>11423761
Humans are carnivorous. /thread

[Anonymous No.11424012]

>>11423761
Most people in recorded history ate high carb, with little meat. No problems were recorded concerning obesity.
Bonobos eat high carb with little meat. No problems concerning obesity.
The problem is most likely elsewhere, unless you want to propose all people suddenly mutated into carnivores.
>When I use my stationary bike, I'll burn ~600 calories in 45 minutes.
That's what the bike tells you.

[Anonymous No.11424036]

>>11422317
>Give me one carnivore in nature that is unhealthily fat like humans are.
Polar bear

[Anonymous No.11424053]

>>11417306
>Nice try kike. Plant compounds are not bio-available to humans, that's why you would be a retard for eating raw broccoli (which doesn't exist naturally anyway), so you have to cook it and eat tonnes of the shit for even a small amount of those compounds. Your body cannot make fat from plants. Lard is cooked fat and oxidised. Your body would absorb eyeballs and use those nutrients to restore your own eyesight.
That rely want me, btw. But this post of your's is the most retarded thing on /sci/ ever. Literally everything you said is wrong.

>your body cannot make fat from plants
This is literal insanity, if you believe this.

>You're a fucking kike nigger and it's laughable that there's literally a paid group of lying cocksuckers like you just out to subvert the Truth for the sake of it. Neck yourself you soulless gimp nigger.
Ah yes, the classical cope combo. You're absolutely irl retarded. Get help.

[Anonymous No.11424076]

>>11409728
Fucking based

[Anonymous No.11424077]

>>11407719
>K2

A second vote for K2.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15514282

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5585988/

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2019.00006/full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566462/

[Anonymous No.11424595]

>>11424076
Ergo fear meat-based diets and eat plants right? Get fucked you nigger

[Anonymous No.11425500]

>>11424077
>>11407719
Supplements and specific nutrients are cool as one part of aiding in the prevention of heart disease but if OP already has heart disease, he needs a lot more of an intervention

[Anonymous No.11425547]

>>11407719
Here's a cool tip: green vegetables like spinach, kale, and remain have large amounts of vitamin K, which bacteria in your gut convert to K2. They also contain chlorophyll (the green pigment), which reacts with sunlight to make CoQ10, just like it does for vitamin D.

Green vegetables also contain nitric oxide, which is converted into l-arginine, a compound that helps keep arteries flexible and oxygenated.

Basically, eat vegetables and go outside

[Anonymous No.11425553]

>>11425547
*and romaine

[Anonymous No.11426307]

>>11425547
Kike advice

[Anonymous No.11427090]

>>11425547
>CoQ
Hehehe