/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11376338]

I think I fucked up
I'll be graduating this semester with a bachelors in math+physics. I spent all my undergrad years preparing for grad school, but I've already been rejected from more than half the schools I applied to and it looks like I won't get in anywhere. I have no internship experience and built literally 0 job connections in these 4 years. What kind of jobs can I get and how? I have no programming background

[Anonymous No.11376357]

>>11376338
construction, tutor on the side, keep trying to get in

[Anonymous No.11376376]

>>11376357
>construction
I really can't do physical labor because of poor physique and some health complications, I'd also never get hired for a job like that because of overqualification
>keep trying to get in
I've sworn to myself to never look back on math/physics graduate schools if I don't get in anywhere this year. I put in 200% effort over these past few years and if that isn't enough to satisfy schools, nothing I can do will ever make the cut
>tutor on the side
Don't you need a degree in education for this? Could I even make this a full-time paying job?

[Anonymous No.11376432]

>>11376338
Military officer
Teacher through a 3rd party certification program like iTeach for example
Pray to God

[Anonymous No.11376435]

>>11376338
>I have no programming background
You'll have to learn

[Anonymous No.11376443]

>>11376376
Stop making excuses, Anon. If you spent five minutes googling you'd know there are plenty of places that would hire you as a tutor just the way you are with a bachelor's in physics.

It's not unreasonable to try a second time. But if you only want to try once it's up to you.

What's your GPA and what tier school did you go to? Are you a theorist or an experimentalist? Can you program a little? Did you do undergrad research?

This is important info for us to give you good advice on how to proceed.

[Anonymous No.11376445]

Programming is trivial, you'll have no trouble learning.

[Anonymous No.11376509]

>>11376338
So you just took theoretical mathematics and don't plan on doing anything useful with it? Yeah, you fucked up alright.
Go learn to do some rocket science with it and you'll get a job on the fucking spot.

[Anonymous No.11376838]

>>11376338
Work on a problem and see if you can come up with some neat results and then use that to try and apply to other schools as well. In the mean time you'll probably have to flip burgers or something

[Anonymous No.11377079]

>>11376432
I'll look into teaching
>>11376435
I'll try, though I'm not sure how far I'll get
>>11376443
>What's your GPA and what tier school did you go to? Are you a theorist or an experimentalist? Can you program a little? Did you do undergrad research?

GPA is 3.8 overall, 3.9 in my major. I'm into math and theoretical physics and I applied to math grad schools (don't want to do physics). I can't program. I did a few months of research on AdS-CFT for physics and functional analysis for math, although the content was not undergrad (I took all the grad QFT and grad analysis courses at my uni before doing each research project so my advisors wanted me to continue where the grad courses left off)

>>11376445
It's easy in theory but hard to remember the syntax
>>11376838
I don't have the talent/skill to find out any new results so this won't work

[Anonymous No.11377090]

>>11376443
>and what tier school did you go to?
Forgot to answer in >>11377079
I hate to say it because it makes me look like a pretentious flexing faggot, but if it helps you give better advice, I go to an Ivy (mid-tier though)

[Anonymous No.11378050]

>>11377090
>>11377079
>Went to Ivy
>Got a 3.8 Overall GPA
>Got denied by half of his grad schools
Nice larp faggot

[Anonymous No.11378520]

>>11378050
Do you have any idea how much worse your post makes me feel when I'm literally on the verge of fucking killing myself?
I got a call from my parents a few days ago asking "what went wrong" in college despite the fact that I spent 0 time studying in HS but pushed through tears of blood and slaved like a dog for these past 4 years

I already said I go to a mid-tier Ivy, i.e. not HYP. The fact that I did 0 networking despite going here makes me feel even goddamn shittier

I only applied to the top 20 schools and a couple in the 20-30 rank range. Math is not exactly the most lucrative field for a PhD, so the reputation of the institution matters a lot more; I don't see any point in going to a school in rank lower than the above. I know getting into the top 10 is extremely difficult, so some of those rejections are not surprising, but some schools in the 10-20 range said no as well so I think I'm fucked

Math grad schools don't care about the overall GPA or even the major GPA in my case; they only look at math grades. Only 20% of the courses in my major constitute math ones, with the remaining 80% being physics courses (for which I happen to have almost all As, but that's irrelevant for math grad school). So most of the math classes I took fall outside my major GPA.
If I count all the math courses I ever took, I got As in only about 2/3 (and Bs in the rest). For an even clearer perspective, I took 7 grad courses (3 physics, 4 math) and got 2 Bs in math with the rest as A's, so that's only 50% A's in math grad courses.

Oh, and I'm horrible at speed computation so I bombed my math GRE subject test and got a 60% (percentile).

[Anonymous No.11378528]

OP why did you send your 60% GRE? You should have done it again and send the best score.

Please try again next year but apply to schools in the 50-20 range as well.

You have to solve a problem as a poster suggested so that you have a paper published (doesn't matter if its not the hottest shit on earth)

Also look at Statements of Purpose from guys that got accepted to do math phds and learn to sell yourself.

[Anonymous No.11378542]

>>11378528
double posting

I really feel your pain, this year I sent my papers for grad school as well. Its a horrible process, we really have to expose ourselves and rejections hurt a lot.

[Anonymous No.11378555]

>>11378520
You wont kill yourself because this is a clear larp. Even if you're from a mid tier Ivy you can get into a top 20 grad school so stop pulling that shit. Lets go through the facts again.
>a 3.8 Overall GPA
>a few months of research on AdS-CFT for physics and functional analysis for math at a grad school level while in undergrad
>go to an ivy league
>bachelors in math+physics
Fuck off, you can easily get into a top grad school and even if you aren't you'll be able to get a job through a career fair that your ivy offers. Even if you fuck up momentously in all of that you have a bachelors in math and physics with a high GPA from an Ivy, with experience because believe it or not research is fucking experience.. The math and physics being unemployable with a undergrad meme is because most people don't get these degrees from an ivy league and when they do they have terrible gpas. You're fucking larping or this is a brag post in disguise, either way I hope you end your life.

[Anonymous No.11378576]

>>11378528
>OP why did you send your 60% GRE? You should have done it again and send the best score.
I had no choice. I took it in September once, did a pretty shitty job, took it in October again and still couldn't push past 60. I'm a fucking tool when it comes to numeric evaluation/computation, especially in such a tightly timed high pressure setting. (Over half the math subject test is calculus and linear algebra computation fyi) It was the most humiliating experience to have everyone around me, including grad students and professors, say I shouldn't give a shit about the test because I'll ace it yet be unable to get a decent score despite studying before the second attempt

I also blew a couple of hundred bucks traveling to another state and staying at motel overnight to take it the 2nd time because all centers near my city were full. What a goddamn failure and leech I am

I showed my SOP to a lot of profs and they thought it was fine (they also said it matters like 10% max in the admission process)

>Please try again next year but apply to schools in the 50-20 range as well.
I'm sorry anon but I'd literally die than spend another year in purgatory trying to get a publication and studying to push my GRE Math subject test score up. I ripped out my soul working for my courses, spending countless painful all-nighters only to get slapped in the face and get thrown in the fucking trash. I'm being completely honest when I say I couldn't possibly have worked more. Hard work doesn't mean shit if you don't have talent and I think I've learned my place
I can't wait to see the utter shock and disappointment on the face of my profs when I tell them I got in nowhere

[Anonymous No.11378581]

>>11377079
>t's easy in theory but hard to remember the syntax

you don't have to remember anything you just google syntax, if you don't even understand what you are supposed to google you ask on a forum.

Trust me on this, if you want to learn programming you will be fantastic in no time. I'm not one of thoee "herp derp cs is for brainlets" posters but you should really have no trouble getting into the sowftare engi side if you have a phys / math major.

[Anonymous No.11378597]

>>11378576
>they also said it matters like 10% max in the admission process
This is a confirmed lie, specially at the top unis. In the 20-1 range EVERYBODY is gonna be a fucking god, everybody is gonna have killer recommendation letters. Thus, the SOP increases its relevance.

>GRE Math subject test
Oh shit, right, forgot you had to take the subject test, that shit is downright scary, in CS they only make you send the GRE general.

>I'd literally die than spend another year in purgatory trying to get a publication and studying to push my GRE Math subject test score up

This really makes no sense. You applied to grad school, I am sure you enjoy research no? Is not tackling unsolved problems something you enjoy?

Anyway, I wish you to be larping, you went to an Ivy, you'll get a job.

[Anonymous No.11378598]

>>11378555
SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU GODDAMN RETARD.
You clearly don't know shit about what you're talking. Here I fucking am, a living live example of a person with those credentials and 0 acceptance letters so far. Slit your wrists if you think I'm larping
YES, I DID FUNCTIONAL ANALYSIS RESEARCH AND STILL GOT REJECTED. I worked 60+ hours a week throughout my summer plowing through grandpa Rudin. The prof assigned me homework questions from sections each week and I had to rederive ALL the results in each section on the board during our sessions while he quizzed me one-on-one for 2-3 hours. That's a full 180 minutes of grilling of grilling by a publishing expert on functional analysis at an IVY LEAGUE. He told me I did a good job at the end of the research. This is what I literally wrote on my resume: "Studied topics in functional analysis, including Fréchet spaces, distribution theory, Banach algebras, and spectral theory under X University Professor XX as extension of graduate analysis courses at X University"

You're fucking delusional and clearly out of touch with the admissions process. I hope you fucking suffer for spewing poison and striking down a person already deep down the abyss of despair

[Anonymous No.11378606]

>>11378598
Post proof then fag

[Anonymous No.11378617]

>>11378555
>Even if you fuck up momentously in all of that you have a bachelors in math and physics with a high GPA from an Ivy, with experience because believe it or not research is fucking experience..
And by the way, one of my friends here is a CS major who's a GOD-tier genius, even took a grad course on sheaf cohomology with me despite not being a math major and got an A, no standing flaws (the likes of inflated ego, interview stuttering, etc) and he told me had to apply to, and I shit you not, 100+ places before he finally landed a job. I was his roommate last year and he went through 15 phone interviews in front of me. Another one of my friends is an applied math major who has 12 grad courses in math and applied math under his belt, ALL A's, and he STILL hasn't found a job despite applying everywhere. There are hundreds of kids at each Ivy who are all insanely talented, and many struggle to find a job. But keep pulling shit out of your ass, it does seem to suit you

[Anonymous No.11378623]

>>11378606
What kind of proof do you want? I'm not going to oblige and spill out personally identifying information in servile prostration to appease your sure-to-be lunatic standards. I also have no interest in getting your "approval stamp" as permission to feel horrible for genuine circumstances that are crushing and breaking me down right now, so fuck off if you have nothing worthwhile to say

[Anonymous No.11378637]

>>11378597
>This is a confirmed lie, specially at the top unis. In the 20-1 range EVERYBODY is gonna be a fucking god, everybody is gonna have killer recommendation letters. Thus, the SOP increases its relevance.
Well, I don't have a heroic and gripping story to put down so I really couldn't have done much else in that department than what I turned in
>Oh shit, right, forgot you had to take the subject test, that shit is downright scary, in CS they only make you send the GRE general.
Yeah, the general test is was very easy (I got a 169 in the math section), but no one cares because you're expected to ace it. I don't really know why math grad schools even ask for the general test; it doesn't filter out anyone and gives no useful information about the applicant.
>>11378597
>You applied to grad school, I am sure you enjoy research no?
I'm not sure how much you know about the way pure math works, but it's basically impossible to produce anything novel in math as an undergrad/fresh grad unless you're a Terrance Tao, in which case you wouldn't find yourself in a situation where you need to anyway
I'm not going to enjoy agonizing for a full year trying to do the impossible knowing my future is riding on my ability to deliver. This is in stark contrast to sciences where you can do some kind of lab or code work because it's actually possible to strengthen your app.

[Anonymous No.11378642]

>>11378623
No Proof = Larp, I'm going to stop posting in this thread because you're a Liar Liar pants on fire
>>11378617
>CS Student
>At Ivy League
>Can't find a job
You want to know how I know your a lying faggot?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2018/05/29/unemployment-low-for-computer-professionals-and-everyone-else/#7da566f54cb7
Computer scientists have an unemployment rate of 2.0% yet your Ivy League friend had trouble finding a job.

[Anonymous No.11378655]

>>11378555
>Fuck off, you can easily get into a top grad school
And on this note, can anyone help me figure out what the main flaws with my app could've been? I was thinking of sending the schools emails asking, but quite a few already mentioned in the decision email that they get too many applications to provide feedback on rejections

I got two recs from math profs (took 2 years worth of classes with one, took a grad course and did functional analysis research with the other) and one from a physics prof (the guy I did the AdS-CFT research with). I think I'm on pretty good terms with them and though I wasn't the top student, I think I did reasonably well in their classes. Both the profs with whom I did research said I had a strong application, what a joke...

[Anonymous No.11378658]

This guys probably a fat turd with greasy hair. The fat fuck cant do nothing right.

[Anonymous No.11378661]

>>11378642
Yeah, the feeling's mutual, kill yourself and get the fuck off my thread, I'm done talking with you.

[Anonymous No.11378688]

>>11376338
Shit you not, your personal appearance may be playing a big role here.
If you have good grades coming from a good uni and cant get a job or admitted into gradschool then your appearance is lacking.
You said you didnt network at college and that you're physically weak, this further proves my point.
Clean yourself, your diet and your exercise habits and you'll get what you want.

[Anonymous No.11378689]

>>11378637
Math sounds like a really tough field. Sorry OP. Us folks in CS have it easy in comparison.

[Anonymous No.11378703]

>>11378617
OP I live in a third world country and my CS friends are getting jobs like crazy, a lot of them are getting full times at MSFT.

And a god-tier genius at an Ivy league school had to apply to 100+ places?

What in the world??

[Anonymous No.11378708]

>>11378703
the real world is not a meritocracy

[Anonymous No.11378710]

>>11378688
How in the world does my "appearance" show up on my grad school application? Any question that comes remotely close is always optional.
>You said you didnt network at college and that you're physically weak, this further proves my point.
I'm still at college finishing my last semester. I get an inflammatory immune response from raised blood pressure which causes hives to break out all over my body if I exercise. I have a fast metabolism, though, which keeps my BM just near a 20. I think I have a healthy diet. I also think you're trolling.

[Anonymous No.11378711]

>>11378708
is this gud or bad?

[Anonymous No.11378720]

>>11378711
If you were blessed with decent intelligence and 8+/10 looks , it's fantastic. If you were blessed with top-tier intelligence but off-putting appearances it is not a good thing. That being said, everyone should put effort into their health and appearance regardless. It does make a difference for people and their impressions of you. You would have to be truly hideous for this not to significantly improve your chances. As well, charisma and emotional intelligence goes a long way to making a great impression and fostering confidence.

[Anonymous No.11378726]

>>11376376
>I've sworn to myself to never look back on math/physics graduate schools
Anon... applicants change from year to year, this year could just be an especially competitive one. Active profs will usually take in around one students per year, so if you got edged out by some one-in-a-million genius this year it just means you won't get edged out next year, even with the same application.
If you're truly passionate about it then you should by any means at least try once more.

[Anonymous No.11378730]

>>11378703
Well, I recall from his phone interviews that he applied to competitive places like Twitter and Tesla (remember this is a year or so ago, before Musk made changes to the employee selection process). There is also a very highly underappreciated factor that affects us: over-qualification. Ivy League graduates can't just walk over to McDonald's and get a job as a manager. A lot of places say no because they think we might leave them for a better job later on or would demand a very high salary a few months in. Sometimes, the employers feel "threatened" by our qualifications or are just pissy from their own personal experience from Ivy rejection/hatred toward the "elites" (this is a real meme unless you go to Harvard, by the way) and reject us. On the other hand, the competitive places get hundred of top-tier Ivy students who snatch those positions, so a "mediocre" Ivy student gets it from both ends.

I'm not denying that we have a competitive edge in the market, but the truth is the job scene in the US is awful no matter how you look at it. I was so relieved watching from the sidelines and thinking I wouldn't have to join this rat race, but here I fucking am now

[Anonymous No.11378740]

>>11378726
>if you got edged out by some one-in-a-million genius this year it just means you won't get edged out next year
Isn't that the gamblers fallacy?

[Anonymous No.11378751]

>>11378726
I applied to 19 schools anon. 19. I already have 10 rejections, a few of which are from ranks 10-20 ( including ones worse than my own uni). It just seems incredibly unlikely that a mere stroke of misfortune is responsible for this. Also, how in the world would I strengthen my app for the second attempt? Schools will be extra critical in scrutinizing my credentials after receiving another application from me next year, and I'll be out of college, which means no profs to work with. Are you suggesting I camp out in my basement trying to doodle out a pure math paper? Because there is nothing else I can do. I don't even know who I would ask for recs second time around.

[Anonymous No.11378763]

>>11378740
Not if you actually know that whoever edged anon out this year is a one-in-a-million genius.
>>11378751
It might just be that you didn't do as much/well as you think. Have you done any research? Publications? Clear/reasonable academic goals?
What specifically do you want to study anon? Write a proposal to me as a practice.

[Anonymous No.11378765]

>>11378751
So the guys that do get in to math grad school what kind of CV are they showing off?

I would imagine it to be hard to beat your Ivy + good GPA + undergrad research + grad courses

How the fuck are they rejecting you? Did you fucked up your SOP? Did you ask the right people for your recommendation letters?

[Anonymous No.11378767]

>>11378751
>I don't even know who I would ask for recs second time around

The same profs? stay in touch, do they need research assistants? You don't have to be a student to work that necessarily.

Honestly a lot of your responses in this thread have been full of self pity and a fixation on wallowing in your apparent mortal failure to get into grad school. As others have said, you have a very decent GPA from a very decent university. Just keep grinding and work on improving yourself and good things will come your way. Or maybe do some introspection and find some other reason why you're finding things so difficult.

[Anonymous No.11378772]

>>11378751
I should clarify and summarize what I really mean: getting into math grad school requires a lot of talent, and there are very few factors you can change in a year to turn around an application that got rejected by so many schools a full 180. I'm just being realistic here. I think the rejections are an evaluation on the unchangeable components of my app ("natural ability", if you will) than raw credentials on papers that that can be improved with some extra work.

[Anonymous No.11378779]

>>11376338
Hole digger, tree trimmer, lawn mower.

[Anonymous No.11378793]

>>11378765
I have no clue. I think they just have all A's on their transcript, maybe not as many grad courses as I have. I also think they probably scored 80+ on the math subject GRE, although I just can't seem to understand why schools would take a score achieved on a ~3 hour monkey algebra exam entirely devoid of proofs as being a better indicator of math ability than grades on cumulatively years worth of courses on my transcript. Then again, I don't have a perfect transcript: >>11378520

I'm pretty sure most people who get in even the top 5-10 don't have any publications.
>>11378763
>It might just be that you didn't do as much/well as you think.
Yes, I think this is the case, but as I mentioned earlier, both the profs with whom I did research said I had a "strong application". The other math prof literally told me I was being too paranoid to apply to more than 10 schools. If I'd listened to that guy, I'd be finished already.
>Have you done any research?
Yes, I talked about this in earlier posts.
>Clear/reasonable academic goals?
I was told it's entirely fine to not have anything very specific; in math, an undergrad is not expected to know enough to have a field of specialization in mind. I did finish the grad sequences in real and complex analysis at my uni and was on the way to doing the same with algebra while submitting my app, though, so I mentioned how I found functional analysis, spectral theory, cohomology, homological algebra and category theory to be very interesting topics (I put these details into context in my SOP) but that I would like to broaden my horizons in grad school learning *insert specialty of school I'm applying to*.

[Anonymous No.11378807]

>>11378767
>do they need research assistants
No. It's pure math; you do it in a room sitting in a chair. It's also one of the reasons the math grad departments are so much smaller than other fields at unis; you don't need a large body of grad students to carry out laborious work involving experiments or something because there's no equivalent.

[Anonymous No.11378898]

>>11378793
>I was told it's entirely fine to not have anything very specific;
Yeah I've heard that too, but I put my interest (TQFT) and my desired direction of research in my application anyways and that got me into a math PhD at PI onmy first pass despite not having all A's on my transcript and only applied to 5 schools.
>undergrad is not expected to know enough to have a field of specialization in mind
That might be true for the average applicant, but they're not looking for average applicants. They're looking for ones that are exceptional.
>I mentioned how I found functional analysis, spectral theory, cohomology, homological algebra and category theory to be very interesting topics
See, to me this just seems like you have no direction in terms of research, unless you have interest in something that unifies them such as generalized Atiyah-Singer or some novel application of Lusternik-Schnirelmann in analysis (but that's extremely ambitious), in which case you should mention that in your app anyway. My undergrad background is in theoretical physics and the profs all emphasized to me that having a clear direction in my application is tantamount; I doubt that plays a minor role in math.
>insert specialty of school I'm applying to
You should target the profs, not the institution. And believe me, they can tell that you copypaste your letters of intent.
Personally I did thorough research of the profs at the institutions I was looking at, specifically their pubs and thought about how I can add to their work, both for my UG [math]\rightarrow[/math] MSc and MSc [math]\xrightarrow[\text{physics}\rightarrow \text{math}]{}[/math] PhD transitions and completely rewrote my apps accordingly. This can definitely go a long way.
Try applied math too, they have more capacity and money to go around.

[Anonymous No.11378931]

>>11376338
I also graduated with degrees in math and physics and got rejected by grad schools. Look into something called post graduate opportunities through ORISE. It’s great. It pays better than grad school and helps you build connections that you can leverage to either get a job or get into a really good grad school since you’ll get published papers and real research experience. I was fortunate to have a professor directly link me with someone who was interested in the same topic as me.

[Anonymous No.11378943]

>>11378898
This anon is correct and I second his advice.
>>11378793
Maybe not publications, but in progress papers with an arXiv link I found to be incredibly beneficial to my own application

[Anonymous No.11378948]

>>11376338
Look into getting an ORISE research position in quantum computing. Also functional analysis is pretty relevant in probability theory, which is what machine learning is, so don’t give up completely on programming. There’s lots of opportunities to do pretty theoretical stuff in machine learning.

[Anonymous No.11378964]

>>11378898
>See, to me this just seems like you have no direction in terms of research
I mentioned topics I found interesting in my courses, not what I would like to do research in. I purposely did not explicitly specify a research topic in order to avoid an easy match-reject. I know for a fact from talking with over 4 profs, one of whom is the math grad admission committee chair at my uni, that they do not view the absence of a specific research direction negatively. In fact, I was told that sometimes an application is evaluated more critically when an unusually technical sounding research interest is mentioned. I suppose my giving the impression I am open to exploring other topics and potentially finding something even more interesting in graduate school got them to assess my application more holistically, which was the goal.
>>11378898
>generalized Atiyah-Singer or some novel application of Lusternik-Schnirelmann in analysis
I don't know of these concepts. Frankly, I have no interest in pursuing or integrating physics in any graduate study I might undertake.
>>11378898
>You should target the profs, not the institution. And believe me, they can tell that you copypaste your letters of intent
The math grad committee head told me he zips right past any mentions of profs at the end of SOPs. The math prof I did research with said he receives many emails from prospective applicants and he usually ignores all of them. The other math prof I got a rec from has served on the admissions committee on and off and he said 3 or 4 lines customized per the school at the end of the general SOP should suffice, warning me against referencing profs unless I had actual contact with them, say in an REU.

Note that a lot of these differences might be due to different admission committee attitudes in Canada and the US.

[Anonymous No.11378979]

>>11378964
>unusually technical sounding research interest is mentioned
Because other factors make the applicant seem unreliable/incredulous. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a solid proposal-type writeup in an app.
>holistically
If they want something "holistic" they'd talk to their rubber duckys. If you did good research then your app definitely didn't show it.
>zips right past any mentions of profs
I said target the profs, not mention them by name. Doing so only limits your options and makes you look presumptuous, I agree, especially you have zero prior correspondence with them. This is obvious.
>different admission committee attitudes in Canada and the US.
Math is math, and "publish and perish" holds in any country. Enough with the excuses, just do better.

[Anonymous No.11378982]

>>11378964
>Frankly, I have no interest in pursuing or integrating physics in any graduate study I might undertake.
Maybe I was a bit hasty in saying this. Lusternik-Schnirelmann seems to have more to do with algebraic topology than physics, although I would still steer away from it since I don't like topology too much. Wikipedia mentions the Chern–Gauss–Bonnet theorem and Riemann–Roch theorem as consequences of the Atiyah-Singer index theorem, both of which I have encountered and studied in either my courses or in my research. It only makes sense to mention theorems I have seen, and I'm not sure how much name-dropping theorems from my coursework would've helped. I don't have the capability to independently do research on any of these topics. I don't think any solid research direction can be found unless one studies graduate topics more thoroughly, which is what grad school is for.

[Anonymous No.11379005]

>>11378979
>There is absolutely nothing wrong with a solid proposal-type writeup in an app.
>If you did good research then your app definitely didn't show it.
I was truthful on the application in saying that I would like to explore more topics in graduate school. I mentioned the exact texts and papers I used in my research work, and saying anything more in an SOP is just ridiculous unless you have a complete PhD plan ready, which I did not.
>Math is math, and "publish and perish" holds in any country. Enough with the excuses, just do better.
This is just a thoroughly misinformed statement. Graduate students in the US typically spend 2 years taking courses before settling down on a research topic, even at the top grad schools. Your suggestion is the exception, not the norm, and that too an exception that demonstratively has insufficient influence to result in the cataclysmic admission decision responses I got. None of the professors I talked with even commented on this, and I spent considerable time with them discussing my SOP. I know graduate students at my institution who shared their SOP with me and none had any of this nonsense PhD setup ready. In fact, I was told my SOP was too technical and that it should read more as a personal story instead. It seems that you're just grasping at straws here to rationalize why I got rejected from so many places.

[Anonymous No.11379013]

>>11378931
>>11378948
Very interesting, I will look into ORISE. I'm quite open to studying theoretical computer science and integrating it with mathematics in graduate school.
>>11378898
>Try applied math too, they have more capacity and money to go around.
I heard they care about the math subject GRE score even more, which would guarantee rejections for me.

[Anonymous No.11379376]

>>11378598
Hey Anon,

I believe you don't worry. You'll get into a good school, I had a 3.5 from undergrad and I went to Penn State for grad school. If only half your letters are back by now, wait a week for two and you'll probably get in somewhere.

If you don't, go to those career fairs the other Anon mentioned. There's so many jobs for a young American physicist from a good school with a good GPA. Like literally seriously send your resume to some defense contractors and you'll have an offer by March.

If this is a larp, fuck you for making me help

[Anonymous No.11379394]

Sounds to me that after 4 years of doing maths and physics you might actually need to solve a real problem.

[Anonymous No.11379441]

>>11376338
Hey OP, I'm an astrologer, I know this may sound crazy but I think I could help you out, just post your dob, month, day, and year. I just want to see where you are supposedly going.

[Anonymous No.11379801]

I just got another rejection, this time from a school in the 20's rank. It's fucking over

[Anonymous No.11379813]

>>11379441
>I know this may sound crazy
Yes it does; thousands of people are born each day, so even if some mechanism exists which enforces a degree of determinism, just a dob by itself does not seem to be specific enough information to deduce anything worthwhile. Still, it's May 18, 1999, if you're interested.

[Anonymous No.11379818]

>>11379441
>I know this may sound crazy
Yes it does; thousands of people are born each day, so even if some mechanism exists which enforces a degree of determinism, just a dob by itself does not seem to be specific enough information to deduce anything worthwhile. Still, it's May 18, 1999, if you're interested.

>>11379376
What was your Math Subject GRE score? If you don't mind my asking

[Anonymous No.11379892]

>>11378964
>The math grad committee head told me he zips right past any mentions of profs at the end of SOPs. The math prof I did research with said he receives many emails from prospective applicants and he usually ignores all of them. The other math prof I got a rec from has served on the admissions committee on and off and he said 3 or 4 lines customized per the school at the end of the general SOP should suffice, warning me against referencing profs unless I had actual contact with them, say in an REU.
terrible fucking advice - holy fuck I can't comprehend how terrible this advice is

[Anonymous No.11379908]

>>11379892
Well, these same people make or have made math grad decisions at my uni which is like ~top 10 in math, so it's accurate advice in that sense, don't know what you're on about

[Anonymous No.11379946]

>>11379908
>these same people make or have made math grad decisions at my uni which is like ~top 10 in math, so it's accurate advice in that sense
Given your present predicament, I think you should rethink the accuracy of their advice, at least a little bit, don't you think? Also, pedigree does not determine quality in advice. Nonetheless, I will elaborate on my earlier point
>The math grad committee head told me he zips right past any mentions of profs at the end of SOPs.
Probably the MOST accurate statement of the bunch. Mentioning profs is a double-edged sword as it can bring your application to someone in the department interested in hearing you out, or jeopardize the success of your application if that professor's not accepting grad students, not on the committee, etc. Note that my advice will be framed in terms of my own experiences, as well as the hours I spent online researching successful applications to grad school. I went with the former above, as I had reached out to professors in the past (more on this below).
>The math prof I did research with said he receives many emails from prospective applicants and he usually ignores all of them.
That's one professor you've heard advice from. Granted, if you reach out to potential PIs and don't hear anything back, you shouldn't take things personally. But the benefits far outweigh the risks if that potential PI responds, expresses interests, and goes as far to put a good word in for you to the admissions committee. I reached out to a professor at a uni whose program I was interested in (Ivy league school, top 10, I'm in math, to cater to your superficiality), and she responded to me with pages of follow-up questions and comments. It resulted in a video call, and I was invited for an interview. Professors from other top programs responded to me as well with interest, and so I'd say you SHOULD reach out to professors, discussing topics of research, common areas of interest, and the potential of working with them.

[Anonymous No.11379954]

>>11379946 cont'd
Huge oversight on your part to not reach out early, and a thorough review of online resources would have convinced you of the same thing. Just because the one [sic] prof you asked didn't look at emails, doesn't mean any other prof does as well.
>The other math prof I got a rec from has served on the admissions committee on and off and he said 3 or 4 lines customized per the school at the end of the general SOP should suffice, warning me against referencing profs unless I had actual contact with them, say in an REU.
I like how his advice can be taken to mean not only an REU but also prior contact via email, which would contradict the conclusion you reached from hearing the advice of the other prof. In my opinion, not knowing you but reading your posts, I don't think you put enough work into these applications as you should have, and didn't even try to seek advice outside of the profs in your own department. Let this be a lesson that
>me in Ivy League me at top 10 school
does not automatically mean you're eligible for programs in grad school.

Also, in reference to earlier discussions, Math GRE carries no weight in my experience. I don't think it is weighed more heavily in applied programs either. I also did very poorly on the exam as I was trying to submit a paper before my graduate school applications. Thus, I never sent it to ANY of the programs I applied, including (again, to accommodate your superficiality) "top 10 programs Ivy leagues", but I still got interviews at these places and have not received a single rejection.

[Anonymous No.11379958]

>>11379946
>>11379954
>inb4 top 10 ivy
The reason for this fixation in my posts is to hopefully divorce the ideas that enrollment in a top program does not make you entitled to a position in one for graduate school. The best you can do in this situation is to exercise humility and personal responsibility, and try to find another place.
>inb4 ok boomer
I'm in my twenties

[Anonymous No.11379989]

>>11379818
I went for physics, but my pgre, was like 70th percentile so not great also. I did have all A's in physics though. And research xp which you have also. Hang in there and you'll make it. I didn't get my offer until mid February I think

[Anonymous No.11380018]

>>11379946
I appreciate the input on reaching out to profs. However:
>(Ivy league school, top 10, I'm in math, to cater to your superficiality)
>>11379954
>does not automatically mean you're eligible for programs in grad school.
Stop trying to twist my words. I never said grad schools should accept me just because I go to a good school. It is quite clear I mentioned that fact in >>11379908 to wipe away the possibility of your thinking that profs who're giving this kind of advice are from some obscure university with admission standards that are very different from the kind of schools I applied to.
>>11379954
>Thus, I never sent it to ANY of the programs I applied, including (again, to accommodate your superficiality) "top 10 programs Ivy leagues"
You're really beginning to piss me off. If this is what you're taking away after reading my posts
in the thread, then you have some reading comprehension issues to fix. I would think otherwise for more "practical" fields, but getting a pure math PhD from a literal who school in the 50's is an absolute waste of time and I'm not being a prestige-hogger for having that view.

>Thus, I never sent it to ANY of the programs I applied
Are you saying I would have had a better chance of acceptance if I didn't submit my math GRE? If the test carries no weight, than wouldn't failing to satisfy an application requirement be worse?
>>11379958
>The best you can do in this situation is to exercise humility and personal responsibility, and try to find another place.
How the fuck can you lecture me on "humility" after reading my posts? Do you see me goading and bragging about my grades or flaunting the fact that I go to an Ivy in the thread? I didn't have this info in my OP and only grudgingly revealed it because some anons asked and I thought the facts would help them give better advice. Holy fuck people like you who project their own perceptions of individuals onto others and start preaching about shit make me rage

[Anonymous No.11380037]

>>11380018
>getting a pure math PhD from a literal who school in the 50's is an absolute waste of time and I'm not being a prestige-hogger for having that view.
In fact, one of my profs I got a rec from (he's held very senior positions in the admissions committee in the past, has contact with various other math profs at top schools, and is a very respectable mathematician) literally told me he doesn't want me to apply to obscure schools past the 40's rank because that wouldn't do justice to me (this was during the meeting I had with after I received my shitty GRE subject score and I talked about considering lower rank schools). Another prof told me a similar thing.

It is ridiculous to say that rankings are a bad metric; I already acknowledged getting into a top 10 school is incredibly difficult, but I've had rejections from schools in the 10-20 range, and got one from 20-30 rank school this morning. EVERYONE (profs, grad students) I've talked to has said that if not a better school, any decent student applying from my institution should get an offer from a school lower in rank. So expecting to at least get into an 20-30 rank is not my being "entitled", but rather reasonable and objective given the information I was provided.

I can't believe I have to repeat myself and spell out such obvious things

[Anonymous No.11380060]

>>11380037
How many schools are you waiting on Anon?

[Anonymous No.11380062]

>>11380060
9/19 now

[Anonymous No.11380080]

>>11380062
You're gonna be fine dude. Getting accepted to grad school is a crapshoot, but if all you're saying is true you'll probably get in to a couple places. You just gotta be patient. Everybody gets a bunch of rejections.

[Anonymous No.11380083]

>>11376338

Try abroad.

[Anonymous No.11380085]

>>11380080
4 out of the 9 are ~ top 10 so those are guaranteed rejections at this point; 2 are 10-20, but I've been rejected from some schools much more worse in rank so it's quite likely they'll say no as well. That leaves 3: one is right about the same rank (20-30's) as a rejection I got this morning, and two are in the 30's. These are my only hope at this point so I'm essentially just waiting on 3/19

[Anonymous No.11380142]

>>11380085
Well I guess you better rev up those McDonald's applications Anon!

[Anonymous No.11380167]

So melodramatic bro, worst case scenario you'll end up working a comfy job for 60k a year or going to a rank 40-30 grad school and can go from there. Who cares? Life doesn't have to be some power fantasy where you get one shot to achieve your dreams or you're a permanent failure. Being born in 1999 your young as shit and still have so much potential and life ahead of you. Stop being so pitiful for a start.

[Anonymous No.11380212]

>>11380037
Hm, well let me apologize for being a dickhead. I've just a particular distaste for elitecunts, so my knee jerk reaction is to bore into their brains that elite enrollment need not entitle success. My only question then would be what you think went wrong to have gotten so many rejections, because I think I speak for many anons in not immediately knowing why you've failed so miserably. I know you wanted help answering that exact question, but surely you've an inkling as to a particular weak point in your apps that you haven't discussed?

[Anonymous No.11380294]

Bro go apply for a quant internship if ur any good at probability

[Anonymous No.11380466]

>>11378763
You have no idea how hard it is to get those grades at an ivy league school. There is no grade inflation despite what you may think. It is very hard and even harder when you take the honors classes.

Source, honors double major math and physics from top 3 ivy. Anything under top 10 is day and night difference. You dont compete for the grade, you fight the curve and everyone else. It is not for the faint of heart or those easily breakable. Anything above a 3.5 is exceptional regardless of publications.

[Anonymous No.11380619]

>>11376338

I haven't much personal experience with the graduate school admissions process, but other anons do seem to be treating you with a level of disrespect that you definitely don't deserve. If you keep at it and improve where needed, I'm sure you'll get the academic placement you want.

[Anonymous No.11380666]

>>11378655
Guarantee its the B’s and <90% GRE, desu. Was told that GRE score is extremely important for applied math and that core subject grades had a hard filter for people who got B’s in 300+ level courses.

[Anonymous No.11380694]

>>11378661
New anon, maybe you're not getting accepted because you're an insufferable cunt.

[Anonymous No.11380888]

>>11380666
Not true at all. A lot of applied math programs don’t even require the subject GRE. The most important thing is having strong letters of rec from reputable people and having connections/similar research interests with the professors of the programs that you’re applying to. I know some really smart people who didn’t get accepted to grad school, ended up doing research at a government lab for a year, reapplied and got in a great grad school.

[Anonymous No.11380991]

>>11380167
I know it's not the end of the world, but I planned everything under the assumption I'll go to some grad school. It's not impossible, but I'm off to an incredibly late if I start networking/looking for a job just a couple of months before graduation.
>>11380212
I can't really think of anything else besides what I said in >>11378520. Maybe you have a more specific question in mind?
>>11380294
I know some friends who tried their luck with quant firms internships; I heard those are awfully hard to get and the interviews are a nightmare.
>>11380466
>You dont compete for the grade, you fight the curve and everyone else.
I thought this was true everywhere? Doesn't only 10-30% of class get an A on average? I thought this was why good grades on grad math courses were considered impressive since you have to beat 70-90% of the grad students in the class to get an A
>>11380619
Can't tell what's worse, expecting any degree of respect on 4chan or expecting to get into at least one decent school

[Anonymous No.11381002]

>>11380666
>>11380888
It's funny how there's no clear consensus even on this thread. I had a similar experiences talking with different profs about how much the subject GRE score mattered; some thought it was important while others considered it utterly inane
>>11380888
>I know some really smart people who didn’t get accepted to grad school, ended up doing research at a government lab for a year, reapplied and got in a great grad school.
Was this for (pure) math? What kind of gov labs did they apply to and how? What was their background, what kind of work did they have to do at those labs, and what did they think of the experience?