/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11339640]

So I keep hearing medical experts say that facemasks are useless for prevention of getting infected with Coronavirus and only useful for people who are already sick.

Are they bullshitting us or what?

[Anonymous No.11339644]

[Anonymous No.11339646]

>>11339640
Yes anon, the medical experts are bullshitting you.

[Anonymous No.11339657]

>>11339640
You need to disinfect the outside of the mask after using it, or dispose of it

[Anonymous No.11339697]

>>11339640
I haven't heard anyone say that. Everything I have read (just now) says that surgical masks might help. Even if they only slightly reduced your chances of getting infected it would be worth wearing.

"it will stop a little bit but not hugely."
"Some studies suggest they may provide some benefit, but what’s out there isn’t conclusive."
"Based on what we know so far, it is probably safe to say that surgical masks (NOT fashion masks) will offer at least some protection"

[Anonymous No.11339704]

>>11339640
>are useless
Yes, they are bullshitting us. I don't know how effective they are, but low effectiveness =/= useless.

Even if the primary pathway of infection is the touching of infected surfaces, the face is likely to be a secondary pathway.

[Anonymous No.11339771]

>>11339640
No one knows the exact transmission route.

No one is saying facemasks are "useless", simply that they may not provide adequate protection.

[Anonymous No.11339789]

>>11339640
A lot of studies that cite effectiveness are compounding data with ill-fitting masks, mask misuse, multiple routes of infection (still other ways to infect yourself even if you're wearing a mask..)

[Anonymous No.11339822]

>>11339640
no expert is saying this shit. it is the media that are pushing it because they literally are retarded. i suspect there is a partisan reason for this because the brainwashed leftards on my school would also scream at me over this back when the swine flu hit. eventually i got infected, so i started announcing to everyone there that i had the disease, and i could hear their audible confused monologue on whether they should kick me out or just ignore me. hilarious.

you should use a regular mask if you're already infected so it is less likely that you will spread it to others. and you may want something like a N95 mask for prevention, so it filters at least some of the air coming into your lungs. and yes you could get infected through your eyes, but you don't breathe through your eyes. it is like using a condom, you can't be 100% sure that this alone will give you the desired results. it is more about a set of actions that you should take rather than solely trusting a mask, and no expert will say that they are completely useless, or that they should only be used against pollution, and other crap. that's stupid

[Anonymous No.11339829]

>>11339640
face masks only cover your mouth and nose. no protection to eyes, ears, cuts, etc. it does help a bit tho. but if you want real protection get some tychem coveralls and a full face mask. and nitriles.

[Anonymous No.11339845]

>>11339640
I guess, throwing another opinion in. Brother is medfag. You are correct from what I have understood. A mask is much more useful on a sick or potentially sick person to prevent spreading shit. It would be a futile idea to use a mask (not a respirator) on a well person to prevent illness. All kinds of crap will settle on mask and you suck it in all day. If it doesn't fit perfectly, you just speed up air getting in around the edges. But still, I'd like to see this become common so we can prevent the spread of cooties that we may not know that we have.

[Anonymous No.11339883]

>>11339640

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYyH4N8VXvA

watch at 1:41:12

[Anonymous No.11339937]

>>11339640
TL;DR That's bullshit, but don't be a retard.

That's not what is being said by actual
experts, but there is a kernel of truth to it OP. Many Chinese citizens are wearing surgical masks (or worse, fashion masks) and no other PPE (Personal Protective Gear). You must dispose of all PPE post contamination (or in this case when you get home) and disinfect clothing and shoes, wash your hands, and bathe when you return home. The following is from a Mecury News article:

"Coronavirus masks: Do they do any good?
CNN.com Wire Service
PUBLISHED: January 28, 2020 at 9:41am By Scottie Andrew, CNN
...

"Surgical masks: While they do protect from large respiratory droplets (a spray from a sneeze or mucus from a cough), they don’t prevent against smaller mistlike droplets. Surgical masks aren’t considered respiratory protection by the CDC because they don’t filter smaller particles, and therefore aren’t effective in totally preventing coronavirus transmission.

“Wearing a surgical mask helps you prevent sharing your germs if you’re sick,” Saskia Popescu, a hospital epidemiologist and infection prevention expert, told CNN. “Surgical masks do not seal around the face, so while they offer some protection, it’s the N95 mask that offers the most protection.”

N95 respirators: The CDC does recommend that healthcare providers wear N95 respirators, face masks that filter at least 95% of airborne particles, if they treat a patient infected with the novel coronavirus.

In the case of SARS, another type of coronavirus, a large amount of infections originated in hospitals among healthcare workers treating infected people, Chiu said. So now, doctors follow the same strict precautions and wear gowns, gloves, N95 respirators and goggles to reduce their likelihood of infection."

None of this matters for Americans and Europeans, just use common sense.

Part 1 or 2.

[Anonymous No.11340009]

>>11339640

Part 2 of 2
The reason why you are hearing things like this is because all the PPE in the world won't save you if you're retarded. Basic things like bathing, washing your hands, cleaning your shoes, and NEVER touching your face or eating unless you have cleaned your hands should be done always, especially if you are in a high risk location. Masks won't save you if you don't wash your fucking hands. If you are using N95 masks, purchase the right size and properly fit them to your face, wear fitting latex or alt gloves, and dispose of them when you get to work or when you return home. Avoid people, especially on public transportation. If you are a professional, follow the SOP/instructions you have been given and do not deviate.

For us milfags btw, our MOPP gear is supposed to be used one time only, then disposed of. However, SOP may dictate you to disinfect and reuse your equipment depending on the situation. Supposedly UV light or diluted bleach is enough, was the same with MERS and SARS. Warm water with mild soap to clean, then rinse thoroughly with fresh water. You may be instructed to submerge the mask in a diluted bleach bucket, just be sure to rinse afterwards. Dry before storage. Don't slack on this, mold will fuck you up too.

>>11339845
>it would be futile
No offense to you, but that's some pretty stupid advice if you are living in Wuhan. And if your brother is a medfag, he would know that you dispose your masks constantly, like, when you leave a patient's room. Even an EMT knows that.

[Anonymous No.11340037]

>>11340009
>>11339937
To further drive home a point I made, YOU do not need to worry about this right now. Unless there are cases in your region, odds are you will never come into contact with this thing. Even if the Chinese are lying (lmao no shit), the US and Europe have extremely limited exposure from people who entered their country during the incubation period. Watch the news I guess.

[Anonymous No.11340041]

>>11339640
At the VERY LEAST they'll stop large droplets from entering through the oral/nasal route and keep you from wiping your hand on your nose and mouth. A lack of eye protection means you could still be infected through touching your eyes or by being unfortunate enough to have a droplet land on you eye and be carrying a large enough viral load to infect you.
But the benefit of stopping large inhaled droplets and keeping your hand off your nose cannot be understated. It's moderate protection without a lot of inconvenience. Remember to toss the mask and wash your hands immediately when you enter a trusted space, and don't wear a single disposable for longer than 12 hours.

[Anonymous No.11340303]

>>11339640
No, they're correct. Its an airborne virus that can penetrate your eyes and can remain on surfaces for 48 hours. Wearing a mask wont help you if you touch a doorknob and wipe your eyes, nor will it help you if you walk with your eyes open in an area where the stuff is airborne. You'd need an actual full, face covering, gas mask thats fine enough to filter viruses.
These medical facemasks are ideal for preventing sick people from spreading what they have into the air by coughing, and should make it harder for them to do things like wipe their nose and then touch the doorknob before you do.

[Anonymous No.11341952]

>>11339644
Thanks anon

[Anonymous No.11341988]

>>11339937
Funny thing about surgical masks, they actually fit my face. At least the brand we have at work does. I did a fit check with positive and negative pressure and they're fine. They're not actually filtering shit since they're not filter masks but I found it interesting since I always tell people that surgical masks are pointless because they don't seal properly.

[Anonymous No.11342183]

>>11339640
the really scary thing is that you think this is 'medical expert' knowledge
>>11339657
>>11339697
>>11339704
>>11339771
>>11339822
>>11339937
>>11340009
absolute mongoloids

the purpose of a face mask is to prevent an infected individual from spreading spittle and snot with every cough, they offer no other protection
proper kitted-out particle respirators(think full-face gas mask hazmat behind 7 filters) will offer DECENT protection against viruses, but a 100% safe filter does not exist, if i had this virus and blew straight into your filter, you are going to get infected, simple as

[Anonymous No.11342187]

>>11342183
forgot to add, in the case of surgical masks, their purpose is to block bacteria, not virusesl; bacteria are several orders of magnitude larger than viruses

[Anonymous No.11342217]

>>11342183
>100% safe filter does not exist
no shit batman. 100% anything does not exist. you're the only retard here implying that it should

>their purpose is to block bacteria, not virusesl; bacteria are several orders of magnitude larger than viruses
1) you didn't even read any of those posts cause no one is implying any of this shit
2) it doesn't matter what his actual size is. the virus is only airborne while he is traveling on a droplet of water and that's why the filter works.

[Anonymous No.11342340]

>>11342217
> the virus is only airborne while he is traveling on a droplet of water
i hope you understand these droplets are microscopic
>that's why the filter works.
even if the droplet would be the size of a rain drop, if it lands on the mask, the mask might as well not be there

[Anonymous No.11342442]

>>11339646
God u must be 19

[Anonymous No.11342446]

>>11342340
>i hope you understand it needs to catch 100% OF EVERYTHING OR NOTHING REEEEEEEE
literally entire medical community agrees that using a mask is better than using NOTHING

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23505369
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19797474
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3306645/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19193267

this is what data has showed so far. i don't care about your delusions on how those viruses can only be present in the specific way you imagine or that they are like something out of a terminator movie because they are nothing like that. they depend on us to go from person to person.

[Anonymous No.11342567]

>>11342446
i don't think you fully understand the papers you linked me

[Anonymous No.11342584]

>>11342183
>simple as
simple as what exactly?

[Anonymous No.11342586]

>>11339937
>n95
>you cannot reuse
oh great, so you need to spend 50$ every 10 days.

[Anonymous No.11342624]

>>11342567
ok i will translate those studies so even a retard can understand:
1) surgical masks can offer protection against large and fine droplets YES AT DIFFERENT RATES AND NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THEY ARE 100% EFFECTIVE
2) a comparison between respirators and surgical masks showing that both can protect the wearer YES AT DIFFERENT RATES AND NO ONE IS SAYING THAT ANY OF THOSE MASKS ARE 100% EFFECTIVE
3) fully plotted graphs describing the hypothetical level of protection for the wearer taking into account the duration of the exposure and the velocity those particles are travelling
4) wearing a surgical mask can greatly reduce infection in home settings AND NO ONE IS SAYING THAT SURGICAL MASKS ARE 100% EFFECTIVE

>BUT IT NEEDS TO BE 100%
no it doesn't and no one is saying that it is kys

[Anonymous No.11342657]

>>11342624
>1) surgical masks can offer protection against large and fine droplets YES AT DIFFERENT RATES AND NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THEY ARE 100% EFFECTIVE
wrong, it actually shows that wearing the mask once you're infected reduces the amount of virus you spread, something i already stated myself, they are useful for preventing those that are infected to spread it further
>2) a comparison between respirators and surgical masks showing that both can protect the wearer YES AT DIFFERENT RATES AND NO ONE IS SAYING THAT ANY OF THOSE MASKS ARE 100% EFFECTIVE
the amount of factors this particular study is not taking into account is pretty earth-shattering, and concluding that a surgical mask is nearly exactly as effective as a respirator is a big red flag, this is bunk
>3) fully plotted graphs describing the hypothetical level of protection for the wearer taking into account the duration of the exposure and the velocity those particles are travelling
again, this actually only shows that the amount of particles is reduced by around 45% in the best case scenario, you cannot conflate this result with its actual effectiveness in preventing the disease, there obviously is going to be some sort of impact, but this study only shows that it is viable to assume that it will have some sort of impact, not the scale of the impact itself
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19193267
this study has zero validity to it, it sounds like it was conducted by a 4th grader
for that matter, all of these studies sound like P rape wage papers, and they are all inconsistent with each other

[Anonymous No.11342688]

>>11342657
>something i already stated myself
YOU stated that the mask would be "invisible" to the virus. no it can trap BOTH large & fine droplets AND YES IT ISN'T 100% AND NO ONE IS SAYING THAT IT IS 100%

>surgical mask is nearly exactly as effective as a respirator is a big red flag, this is bunk
NO YOU'RE BUNK. you literally think that the mask needs to trap the literal virus and that it needs to do it 100% of the time LOL

>shows that it is viable to assume that it will have some sort of impact, not the scale of the impact itself
muh 100%

>this study has zero validity to it, it sounds like it was conducted by a 4th grader
ok 4th grader

[Anonymous No.11342727]

>>11342688
listen dude, the very first study you showed flat out states that no one actually knows how effective these measures are in general as the literature is lacking
i'm making an assumption that a respirator is more effective due to the logistics of a respirator versus a face mask, one is necessarily better than the other, and this study contradicts that without really accounting for it; this would be big if true tier
i don't literally think masks need to trap the virus, and the reason i bring up the 100% thing is because we don't know how the percentage of pathogen in the aerosol correlates to likelihood of infection, we can assume for this strain that the percentage required is significantly lower because it is a newly discovered strain
for example, the fact that one study shows masks prevents 45% of the aerosol from traveling does not in any way imply that it lowers the chance of infection by 45%, it has actually no significant bearing at all on the likelihood of infection
>ok 4th grader
the study literally black on white states that participants may or may not have worn masks, you nigger
yes, modern science is fucking terrible and full of pencil pushing retards, sorry you had to find out this way

[Anonymous No.11342752]

>>11342586
Exactly my thoughts lmao. Make that shit machine washable

[Anonymous No.11342803]

>>11342727
>the literature is lacking
it is so lacking doctors decided to ban masks and dropped germ theory

>i'm making an assumption that a respirator is more effective due to the logistics of a respirator versus a face mask
the study confirms that

>this study contradicts that without really accounting for it
it doesn't.

>45% of the aerosol from traveling does not in any way imply that it lowers the chance of infection by 45%
no one implied that. it is all hypothetical, and every real-world situation is different.

>the study literally black on white states that participants may or may not have worn masks
so the numbers may be skewed because they came from households? color me shocked

[Anonymous No.11342806]

>>11340009
>properly fit them to your face
My nose won't let me get a proper fit...

[Anonymous No.11342829]

>>11342803
>the literature is lacking
is a statement made by the people you are citing to contradict me, this is getting circular
i'm making an assumption that a respirator is more effective due to the logistics of a respirator versus a face mask
>the study confirms that
>Among nurses in Ontario tertiary care hospitals, use of a surgical mask compared with an N95 respirator resulted in noninferior rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
>the study confirms that
>so the numbers may be skewed because they came from households? color me shocked
learn how fucking science works

[Anonymous No.11342863]

>>11342829
>>is a statement made by the people you are citing
>i think we could gather more and better data on asian fashion. there isn't enough stuff out yet.
>publishes study
>omg we has data now

>>Among nurses in Ontario tertiary care hospitals, use of a surgical mask compared with an N95 respirator resulted in noninferior rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
>Influenza infection occurred in 50 nurses (23.6%) in the surgical mask group and in 48 (22.9%) in the N95 respirator group
so tell me which percentage is greater 4th grader?

>>learn how fucking science works
>please don't collect household data

[Anonymous No.11343099]

thats because masks alone dont help much. you need eye covering as the droplets contact the surface of the eye

t phd

[Anonymous No.11343149]

>>11342183
>Calls people mongoloids
>epeats what half of them said

[Anonymous No.11343150]

>>11342183
>calls people mongoloids
>repeats what half of them said

[Anonymous No.11343201]

>>11339640
Yes a surgical mask can help, that's the point of this item

[Anonymous No.11343279]

>>11339640
>Are they bullshitting us or what?
Nope, some of them work good (expensive and rare) when used with utmost care (which most people aren't capable of). The kind of mask that most people in China got doesn't work very well against viruses. I hear they are running out of all kinds of mask in China now, and almost nobody had the good kind of masks at any point. The only bulletproof way to avoid infection is to stay the fuck away from people and the things they have touched or coughed on. I think SARS could live on surfaces for like 2-4 days depending on various conditions of the surface. No reason to expect this one doesn't.

[Anonymous No.11343308]

>>11342863
>so tell me which percentage is greater 4th grader?
>there is less than a 1% difference between a hermetically sealed system which forces 100% of air through a filter and a piece of cloth over your mouth and nose
are you just trying to get me now?
>please don't collect household data
please don't collect data on the effectiveness of getting infected with a disease through a surgical mask when your participants do not even wear the surgical mask
are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.11343913]

>>11342752
A fully machine washable facemask is a facemask that allows water droplets to penetrate...

[Anonymous No.11343934]

>>11339646
>The medical experts
You mean CNN and Buzzfeed?

[Anonymous No.11343943]

>>11339640
Facemasks are useless because you can still breathe in air or get the virus in your eye. All they do is protect you from involuntary face touching. They are more useful on people that are already infected because when they exhale it doesn't go out into the air. Respirators, however, are not useless but most of the retards on /pol/ who are buying them are too dumb to follow simple decontamination procedures and will end up getting sick anyway.

[Anonymous No.11343952]

>>11343943
If there's an incubation period where the virus is asymptomatic but transmissible, it's probably better that these people wear the mask to stop the spread, even if they don't think they have the virus. Not sure why all of these redditor types are getting off on telling people the masks are useless.

[Anonymous No.11343960]

>>11343952
Useful for people wanting to protect others from the virus they may have, useless for people wanting to protect themselves from the virus.

[Anonymous No.11343963]

If you're actually worried about this you should be buying food so you don't have to leave the house during quarantine, instead of trying to figure out a way to indulge your delusions of normality by walking around in public during a plague.

[Anonymous No.11344025]

>>11343960
I just don't understand why these "smart people" laugh at and dunk on the people buying masks, when if there really is an outbreak, it's probably better if we all wear masks.

[Anonymous No.11344113]

>>11339640

So the fact of the matter is that surgical masks are basically useless

that is true

what you need are so called "ffp3" masks.

(((they))) strategically failed to mention that because they wanted to grab some for themselves before they're all sold out and the price gouging starts

guess what, they're now all sold out pretty much anywhere, and the price gouging started.

[Anonymous No.11344145]

>>11339644
thank mr norbot

[Anonymous No.11344313]

>>11339640
Masks are good because it keeps your filthy fucking fingers from touching your face, especially around your mouth and nose.

[Anonymous No.11344805]

These things are recommended during regular season by the GOVERNMENTS of these asian countries. They have some studies showing that they help lower infection rate, and maybe it's true. Even if it's a 5% lowering of infection, if they manage that for the whole population, it could be a good investment for them to spread that notion.

It could simply be because masks raise awareness and put the idea of getting sick in people's minds. If you look at someone and think they might be contagious because they wear a mask, isn't there a good chance you'll be more careful as a result? Couldn't that decrease the chance you catch the flu?

Keep in mind, that is for the STANDARD flu, every year. This is more likely to keep people calm in stressful times.

The FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS generally want to keep the people calm and orderly. It's a lot easier to evacuate a burning building if people try to remain calm and orderly.

It's all just common sense, really.

>>11344313
This is probably a big factor.

>>11342624
>>11342657
Regardless of whether or not the mask is actually effective on a physical level at preventing the virus from passing from one person to another, there has been an observable effect on reducing the net infection rate when masks are used at a broad level.

This is true for the regular flu virus. There is a possibility that it is true for the WuFlu as well. Such that it's worth making the recommendation to the public.

[Anonymous No.11344808]

>>11344805
These [masks] are recommended during regular [flu] season

I fucked up on the first sentence...

[Anonymous No.11344821]

>be asian
>walk around wearing shit on your face like the air is not breathable
>the air is not breathable
being asian looks like a lot of fun

[Anonymous No.11344831]

>>11339640
When they say "Face masks" they mean the regular surgical masks you see people wearing. Actual hospital staff wear N95 masks that actually seal around their mouth and nose, and those are effective. They have to be disinfected of course, though.