/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11338827]

Is psychiatry cringe or redpilled?
Surely it can't be as challenging as neurosurgery

[Anonymous No.11338829]

It's based. Here are the rankings:
1. Psychosurgeon, 2. Psychiatry. 3. General neurosurgeon

[Anonymous No.11338836]

>>11338827

[Anonymous No.11338880]

>>11338827

Psychiatry is some serious bull
>Go to psychiatrist
>Can't focus, depressed, no energy, life has no meaning doc

HERE IS SOME ADDERALL BOY, YEEEEH

[Anonymous No.11338892]

>>11338827
it's based. maybe not as based as neurology but to deny the mental side of the brain is asinine. psych meds work wonders. and depending on the disease and its severity neurosurgery may be required. so it is often enough interdisciplinary.

[Anonymous No.11339045]

Cite me a single disease that psychatry is able to cure.

[Anonymous No.11340184]

>>11338827
>redpilled
GTFO pill-popping /pol/esmoker

[Anonymous No.11340190]

>>11338892
Neurologists are useless.

[Anonymous No.11340198]

>>11338827
>Surely it can't be as challenging as neurosurgery

medical neurosurgery is fucking barbaric

<-- this is real neurosurgery

[Anonymous No.11340233]

depends if your psychiatric wants to help you

[Anonymous No.11340287]

>>11340190
>premed with no idea what he's talking about
Just because a lot of treatments are theoretical doesnt mean its useless. That's like saying physics is useless. There have been many strides in neurology, especially with the onset of gene therapy and novel interventional techniques with stroke management.

[Anonymous No.11340316]

>>11339045
I mean, it's the nature of thing they are managing that you and everyone who shits on psychology/psychiatry need to consider. Yes, the answers aren't unclear, most of the time, but that's just the brain bro. With good follow up and coping techniques, depression can be cured.
It doesnt mean the specialty is useless, someone needed to manage these things somehow. We can't just leave pt schizophrenic or trying to kill themselves.
Just because there isn't a magic pill or surgery to make something go away like antibiotics or cholecystectomy on cholecystitis, doesnt mean it's useless. Cholecystitis or benign masses are a concrete easy thing to treat.
As a matter of fact, next you're going to say oncologists are useless because they can't cure many cases of malignant cancers. Neurosurgery is actually pretty useless, about 50% of the time by the same logic as well because you literally have to remove brain to "cure" lots of conditions. Yeah, you took out the bad thing! too bad they're missing half their left frontal lobe...again, it's the nature of the field.

[Anonymous No.11340325]

>>11340233
This.
Some of them are useless sac of shits they just want to push meds on you and get you out their office while they collect a check. I swear, psychiatrists who do this should lose their licenses...

[Anonymous No.11340387]

>>11340287
While we're at it all non-newtonian physics is useless as well.

[Anonymous No.11340405]

>>11340287
Name one real world useful function of a neurologist.

[Anonymous No.11340435]

>>11340405
Reading EEG and seizure management.
Teasing out if something is actually a stroke or not(there are other causes of weakness, yes, even unilateral).
Recognizing brain death.

Regardless, every specialty is useful in of themselves considering that time wasted of another doctor managing cases that they are not experts in that could be used in managing other things of which they are actually knowledgeable/can actual do things.

[Anonymous No.11340458]

>>11340435
>>11340405
Epilepsy management,* rather

[Anonymous No.11340475]

>>11340435
>Reading EEG
Such that they may what.

>seizure management
With what? Ah, drugs. Something you could plot out with a flow chart and have a machine do. Underlying nutritional, immunological, environmental, and mechanical causes? Beyond at best a basic MRI, not considered.

>Teasing out if something is actually a stroke or not
Such that they may what?

>Recognizing brain death.
That sounds very useful, and a common case.

Neurologists are useless.

[Anonymous No.11340508]

>>11338880
Seconding this, or maybe my psychiatrist was shit.
I cut that shit some months ago.
I overall feel better with the occasional hard existential cope where I almost kill myself in the kitchen.
More "natural" without them, with antidepressants my mind was more "fuzzy" .

[Anonymous No.11340540]

>>11340475
You just answered your first question with my second point, moron.

It is not that simple to seizure management. It requires one to learn these things. People who haven't spent years of their lives learning this thing will not be as proficient ant what to do, and yes this obviously goes beyond status epilepticus.
The fact that your idea of medicine and healthcare is fixated only on what can be done next rather than also what shouldn't be done next, shows you're either a 1st year med student and retarded orthofag at best(not insulting all orthopods, just the few dumb ones like you) or a premed.
Never said brain death was common, but it's good to know when it occurs so that you stop wasting resources, many of which cost more in a month than it does to pay a neurologist in a year.
Again, systems base practice,m and cost effective care isn't something I expect inexperienced med student, let alone a premed, to understand.
It also explains why you so severely missed my last point in the previous post.

[Anonymous No.11340556]

>>11340475
The answer to your first question was within the same point, moron.

It is not that simple to do epilepsy management, esp in the complex cases you mentioned. It requires one to spend time learning these things, the same way it requires one to spend time learning how to safely put a screw in a joint). People who haven't spent years of their lives learning this thing will not be as proficient at what to do, and yes this obviously goes beyond status epilepticus.
The fact that your idea of medicine and healthcare is fixated only on what can be done next rather than also what shouldn't be done next, shows you're either a 1st year med student and retarded orthofag at best(not insulting all orthopods, just the few dumb ones like you) or a premed.
Never said brain death was common, but it's good to know when it occurs so that you stop wasting resources, many of which cost more in a month than it does to pay a neurologist in a year.
Again, systems base practice,m and cost effective care isn't something I expect inexperienced med student, let alone a premed, to understand.
It also explains why you so severely missed my last point in the previous post.

[Anonymous No.11340567]

>>11340556
To add further, not only systems based practice and management if resources, but unnecessary interventions on the poor pt...
Giving a dude tPA when he didn't have a stroke is pretty terrible.
Giving a kid seizure meds that have some pretty bad side effects when he/she actually just had so psych issues is pretty bad.
Oh, and that brings this thread around full circle doesn't it?
A good neurologist worth their salt wouldn't make these mistakes often.

[Anonymous No.11340590]

>>11340556
>The answer to your first question was within the same point, moron.
An answer, not a proper one either.

>It is not that simple to do epilepsy management, esp in the complex cases you mentioned. It requires one to[...]
Nowhere is it addressed that in nearly all cases this involves zeroing in on the correct drug, at the correct dose.

>The fact that your idea of medicine and healthcare is fixated only on what can be done next
I don't normally invoke this language, but given that between the slew of insults and the lack of real depth the SNR of your post is low enough that I'm just going to say "Strawman". If you want to validate the current system as all right and proper, the best we can do, the least waste for the best result, you're going to need to do better than that. The current way of doing things is a massive waste in human quality of life and downstream appointments over a lifetime. But wait, perhaps that's not such a bad thing, now is it.

>Never said brain death was common,
I mean, yes, but what's the point?

>Again, systems base practice,m and cost effective care isn't something I expect inexperienced med student, let alone a premed, to understand.
Laziness or posturing. If I dragged you into a type and depth of conversation you don't feel like investing in, just go. It's fine, I get it. Been there.

>>11340567
>but unnecessary interventions on the poor pt...
Yes, this is part of knowing and doing your job at a level above what a machine following a simple script can.

>Giving a dude tPA when he didn't have a stroke is pretty terrible.
Let's be real though, even if they do give a clotbuster, what are the odds you'll even get magnesium replacement in a drip? Antioxidant and nutritional support? A calcium channel blocker? Nothing known about the pathophysiology of stroke actually makes its way into practice. This is undeniable. It sits in the literature for decades.

>Giving a kid seizure meds
More complicated than you're acting.

[Anonymous No.11340613]

>>11340316
>Neurosurgery is actually pretty useless, about 50%

I had four brain surgeries and still have the tumor. It's useless 200% of the time.

[Anonymous No.11340659]

>>11338827
These are the people whose job it is to remove from society/pacify anyone who feels the current path of mainstream society is anything but absolutely wrong on virtually every level or downright evil.
At least that's while they're not keeping mass killers and truly psychotic individuals out prison.

[Anonymous No.11340673]

>>11338892
you are one creepy ass motherfucker.
shudder

[Anonymous No.11340721]

>>11340590
Some of the cases are more ambiguous than others, doesnt mean it's not worth studying with the goal of learning more.
Surgery used to be pretty useless in the past too until good techniques and knowledge was obtained on how to best accomplish it. Even so, there are stil some surgerical techniques that are pretty futile as they are now. If everyone had your attitude, we'd never be where we are now with surgery as a speciality, let alone medicine as a field.
>you're not going in depth so I'm going to call strawman
I refuse to go in depth because you seem to lack any knowledge on the subject and are likely a premed if not some straight up lay person like most of the shitposters in this site.
The current way of doing things is often wasteful, but neurology as a speciality is not one of the reasons. There are just enough neurology programs that take just as much residents as there needs to be. We could always use more researchers in neurology and neuroscience in general but this is another matter.

>Yes, this is part of knowing and doing your job at a level above what a machine following a simple script can.
Yes, which does not all exclude the use of any specialists.
Generalists(medicine, general surgery, pediatrics,) as well as other specialists simply to do have the time to manage every case, especially when they dont have the expertise in that particular subject. This mean, knowledge as well as skills. Again, their time can be better used on other things of they are knowledge and can actually do. I said this earlier.
You just dont understand the volume of information and people practitioners have to sort through in a day. Again, I'm not surprised.
Things would be even less efficient and even more costly in the long run if not for specialists. What holds everyone one back is stupid administrative protocols that hospitals set up, not the existence of any specialties themselves.
Of course, there are cases of people consulting inappropriately

[Anonymous No.11340726]

>>11340721
Continued...
...these inappropriate consults are dealt with accordingly. Either ignored or response severely delayed.

[Anonymous No.11340866]

>>11340316
>With good follow up and coping techniques, depression can be cured.
>depressed because you're starving to death
>here take these experimental meds and work harder

These state head doctors are literal predators

[Anonymous No.11340881]

>>11338880
>ADDERALL
they'd never give me stuff like that that makes you euphoric. my stupid parents forced me into it to treat "wrong behaviours" during childhood and they would always give me stuff like prozac or risperidone

it didn't change any of my "wrong" thoughts or behaviors. who changed were actually my parents, they backtracked on some of their stupid ideas, but would still defend the actions they took in the past. they basically used those clinics as a way to soft-kill me because they hated me, just this year my mom said she would buy a gun to kill me, and that's probably a thought she had since the moment i wasn't a cute toddler anymore.
you can say literally any bullshit on their clinic that they will have a random diagnosis for it. they aren't interested in juicy stuff like this, the actual real reason behind those imaginary diseases

[Anonymous No.11340894]

Psychiatry in the current paradigm has seem to hit a wall. But, there are serious efforts to create a system of mechanistic explanation for psychiatric phenomenons, and a lot of exciting things are happening in that arena.

pic related - researchers at UCL figured out why lithium works in bipolar patients last year

[Anonymous No.11341023]

>>11340866
Follow up, as in meetings to talk about problems/coping skills at some regular interval regardless of frequency (that will depend on the person's needs).

[Anonymous No.11341025]

>>11338827
Psychiatry today is mostly prescribing happy pills.

[Anonymous No.11341045]

>>11341025
It sucks hard but it's still much better than before when it was about making your patients clinically retarded, or even longer before that when it was about putting patients in torture devices.

Easily the lowest form of mainstream medicine.

[Anonymous No.11341315]

>>11340325
How do you deal with such psychiatrists, I have one that I only get to see once every two months while I suffer with schizophrenia.

[Anonymous No.11341340]

>>11340721
>If everyone had your attitude,
You don't understand my attitude, and the rest of your post as shown yet again, you're only capable of hearing echoes of yourself. Nothing in your response even connects with me or addresses anything stated, you're talking to yourself. I'm not part of you, and if you're at a place where everything is your reflection you have to fight with, maybe you ought to shut up and do some introspection.

>I refuse to go in depth because you
Because you can't.

>Generalists can't X Y Z
Yet again pointing at a faulty structure making neurologists (and all specialists) even more useless and ovetaxed with problems their compartmentalized training and fixations have no ability to address. The body is one connected whole.

>You just dont understand
Broken record, belittling, etc.

>What holds everyone one back is stupid administrative protocols that hospitals set up
Maybe you should outline this structure.

Yawn, never mind, don't bother. Lost my interest completely. You have too many personal problems to bother trying to converse with and "wading through" so to speak. Have a good one.

[Anonymous No.11341449]

>>11338829
>Psychosurgeon

what?...

[Anonymous No.11341590]

>>11341449
He's a psychopath who wants to lobotomize his victims.

[Anonymous No.11341636]

>>11340613
My condolences to you anon.

[Anonymous No.11341642]

Definitely cringe. Borderline caveman science.

[Anonymous No.11341848]

>>11341340
not that guy but you're way dumber than you think you are and have your head up your ass

[Anonymous No.11341894]

Is there any difference between how modern governments and their propagandists weaponize psychology against their own populations for social control versus how older theocracies and their clergy would weaponize theology other than modern governments seek to be secular, so had to replace god and the soul with consciousness and the mind and swapped out sin for disorder?

[Anonymous No.11341914]

>>11338827
psychiatry is to neurology what linguistics is to evolutionary biology
a placeholder until real science can take over

[Anonymous No.11342378]

>>11338827
Its bullshit , not real medicine.I don't believe in descriptive theories about the mind. Because these are all fairy tales invented by manipulators called psychologists and psychiatrists who were too stupid to deal with the True Medicine. If the psychology and psychiatry were based on chemistry and obtained repeatable results under certain conditions confirmed by some medical measuring instruments, then yes, I could believe in such psychology.

[Anonymous No.11342577]

>>11340316
If you cope any harder you might hurt yourself

[Anonymous No.11342582]

>>11338827
>Prescribe SSRIs for decades
> Suicide rate goes up 30%
> Wow, I guess we need to prescribe more SSRIs

[Anonymous No.11342604]

>>11342378
People alot smarter than you persisted with criminal psychology because of how effective it was, keep that in mind

[Anonymous No.11342629]

>>11338827
>)
It's incredibly difficult to be good/useful in the field

[Anonymous No.11342632]

>>11338827
Psychiatry is pills until your brain chemistry hits supposedly "normal". What you think you're talking about is psychology.

[Anonymous No.11342673]

>>11340613
>>11341636
I mean, then say oncology is useless too. Some cancers are obviously more malignant than others. You happened to have one, I'm sorry.
What you brainlet here don't understand is the nature of the field that makes it difficult. It's not the same as the anatomy and physiology of the GI system, or the heart; We figured that out years ago so of course general surgery, cardiac surgery, and GI surgery can be so effective... even then, there are some things that occur that just can't be cured until we figure exactly forms(perianal abscesses, crohn's disease). There are some things that we do understand but prevention is 10x better then cure(hemorrhoids since surgery can lead to cysts and fistulas sometimes.)
We dont understand the brain yet to that capacity, though yes, obviously we have made lots of progress. The brain is just more complex than the GI system obviously and this takes more effort until we can fully come to terms with why things are happening as they are. Goodness, how hard is this to understand?
Same thing with Rheumatology, let me guess. You probably think that's useles too. Moron. >>11341914
That make sense considering scientists and doctors who are actively working in that field are are both trying to understand it with research. Clinicians doing research is just ad important as regular PhDs doing research since they're perspective as clinicians actually dealing with patients that have specific disease processes are super helpful in creating translational research. Kite so when you consider, most basic science has to be done on animal model or a collection of human cells.

[Anonymous No.11342702]

zoompilled af (YOU)

[Anonymous No.11342714]

>>11342577
I'm not a psychiatrist but I can tell you I'm grateful to have them around to deal with all the schizophrenic and depressed patients so I can focus on other sick patients. More importantly so they aren't jumping off buildings, swallowing antifreeze, or chugging a bottle of tylenol or, rubbing alcohol, prompting admission to the hospital where they now need other interventions and now other physicians time on top of their already busy lists with patients who's conditions were NOT directly self inflicted. That's what I've been trying to explain to this pseud for hours now.>>11341340
If you still dont get it, it's your lack of experience in this setting, stupidity, or both.

[Anonymous No.11342733]

>>11341642
Ok, so tell us all intelligent, anon. What's your approach to studying consciousness and the decision making part if the brain? How would you figure out the nature of the neurotransmitter irregularities found in depression or schizophrenia? If you dont believe in neurotransmitter hypothesis, what is your approach to figuring out why these patients act the way they do? Why do they experience that they experience?
What specific region of the brain do you think we should look at first? Which type of neurons? Which type of receptors? Which genes? How would you design that study anon? Tell me. I'll be good enough to let my psychiatrist friends know so maybe they can get something going instead of being the useless idiots they apparently are. Tell us, oh wise, anon with you apparently infinite wisdom, how intelligent people should study consciousness.
I wonder if you think genetics is useless too? In that case, again, please give us your so intelligent suggestions on where to start. While you do this anon, give us a creative way to effectively eliminate all outliers and 3rd variables.
Or maybe you think statistics is useless too? So again, anon, how do you think we should study things objectively. What's your plan to get over these failings?
I'm waiting.

[Anonymous No.11342757]

>>11338827
Quite blatant pseudoscience. They exist only because they can point at anyone disagreeing with them and call them mentally ill.

[Anonymous No.11342779]

>>11341340
>the body is one connected and whole
You idiot. The amount of things practitioners have discovered about "the body" makes it impossible for one person to learn everything if that is what you are ignorantly suggesting.
We used to be able to fit everything we knew about immunology on an index card, genetics within a couple of pages of paper. Now we have entire textbooks dedicated to each of these things with multiple volumes and editions.
What is your profession? If you're somehow a doctor, post time stamped pic of your credentials crossing out your name, I'm serious. This is why I dont want to waste my time arguing with you.
It's so fruitless when you have no idea what you're speaking of.
At this point, specialization is basically mandatory for any progress to be made.
Hell, specialization has always the hallmark of od civilization for a good reason. There just aren't that many hours in a day for one person to learn everything there is under the sun about a subject, medicine included.

I can talk all day about how ridiculous and inefficient hospital administration as well as healthcare systems administration in general, but I'd only get angry and keep running out of characters.
For starters, there are procedures set out that even when other specialties dont want the ER to call them for certain things, yes, including neurology, there are alot of important stuff theyd rather be doing too, they have no choice but to because its "protocol" and we have to document that "this thing" got done so insurance wont throw a hissyfit and refuse to pay or the patient can't get overzealous and bitch about how they werent seen by a "specialist" and thus that's why they things turned out the say it did and then have a in ability to due. Basically the hospital(and to a degree physicians) more concerned with covering their asses.

[Anonymous No.11342782]

>>11342582
Everyone know its SSRIs and behavioral therapy that is most effective, the problem is too many(the number isn't specifically high but its unacceptably high) psychiatrists are lazy and dont care to talk to pt.

[Anonymous No.11342787]

>>11338827
Obviously it works because their understanding of the human mind is so profound they successfully convinced a bunch of retards to give them money.

[Anonymous No.11342833]

psychiatry is as undermining as any other specialty but can't be too predefined as much as the research based in the early 70 and prior due to many laws on subjects researched.
No bodies, apart of sick, can be researched upon. There are laws preventing physical and psychological trauma. My roommate is studying a data set on the guts bio of Inuits for traces of protein or microbe leading to depression. She said only, it can be done with Inuits due to their inbreeding small populations. Then, I brought up "the step after rats" to actual humans.

It will be impossible to further our understanding of psychology with only data coming from already deranged people. ie.: This research conducted on psychopath murderers makes seem like half of the population of Detroit are good of nothing due to their inert nature of antipathy towards others. quoted by Luka Rocco Magnotta. For the hell of it.

For seriousness, research on the mind is tattered by the idea of being holy and should not be messed on and with. Despite the fact, many disagree and would run anyone down as if they were a rock.

Great.

[Anonymous No.11342997]

>>11338827
it's an absolute meme
their drugs do stuff tho, but they dont really know what they do

[None !niqjediPCA No.11343959]

>>11338827
>Is psychiatry cringe or redpilled?

active warfare tactic on your population.