/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11333207]

why you don't like computer science in here?

[Anonymous No.11333215]

go to /g/

[Anonymous No.11333221]

>>11333215
/g/ is technology consumerfags board
computer science is mathematics.

[Anonymous No.11333238]

>>11333207
All mathematics is a computational process so math is applied computer science. Don't know if this answers your question.
The same applies to science.

[Anonymous No.11333392]

>>11333215
>go to /g/
/g/ is just consumer electronics

[Anonymous No.11333677]

>>11333215
>go to /g/
Programming != Computer Science.

[Anonymous No.11333763]

>>11333221
>computer science is mathematics.
Other way around.

[Anonymous No.11333776]

>>11333207

Every CompSci dude I've met was an entitled, whiny, weak and manipulative effeminate faggot obsessed with anime, homosexual, pedophile and a backstabbing hoe. I feel raw disgust in my stomach around them, and if I could kill them and get away with it.

You bet your four eyed, nerdy ass pasty looking face that I would, and sleep like a baby at night.

[Anonymous No.11333780]

>>11333207
I have no problem with CS as a field, just CS majors of all types are insufferable. Knowing that they think they’re mathematicians only makes cruelty towards them more appealing.

[Anonymous No.11333785]

>>11333677
>Programming != Computer Science.
Computer Science != Science or Math

[Anonymous No.11333787]

>>11333776
Still missing your ex, eh?

[Anonymous No.11333795]

>>11333787

Nice projection, you must be another homosexual

[Anonymous No.11333849]

>>11333780
god yeah they're insufferable. They get paid more for less work and they know it because there's a big programmer fetish in industry. And all they ever end up doing is the next fucking taxi app or something.

They have the nerve to shit on EEs when the EEs are the ones building the computers in the first place. Scum of the fucking earth people.

[Anonymous No.11333855]

>>11333849
I meant insufferable because they believe they can come up with computational/algorithmic solutions to problems neither they nor the people who’ve studied those systems understand. This, the AI retardation and tendency to be tasteless dweebs is why they elicit an immediate disgust response. I could care less what some Stanford grad rakes in every month, there will always be other undeserving parasites in finance or business who earn far more while contributing far less.

[Anonymous No.11333868]

>>11333785
>Computer Science != Science or Math
>Science != Science

[Anonymous No.11333875]

>>11333855
b-but you are typing that on c-computer, using software they developed, with communication protocols they designed and optimized and it all somehow works. Maybe they understand it a bit after all

[Anonymous No.11333879]

>>11333868
The word science has had different meanings depending on the context and time period. Hegelian philosophy and German Idealist philosophy did not use the word science in the same sense that their enlightenment empiricist contemporaries did. Computer science does not have anything to say about the structure or laws that describe the behavior of nature, it is concerned with abstract systems divorced from their physical basis just as mathematics and linguistics are. One can use techniques developed by these fields to do scientific research but they themselves cannot be said to fulfill the definition of science.

[Anonymous No.11333894]

>>11333849
computers don't have to be electric

[Anonymous No.11333904]

>>11333879
what about information theory?

[Anonymous No.11333972]

>>11333875
comms protocols are IEEE domain. That's EE people. do you want a medal for writing a web browser?

[Anonymous No.11334036]

>>11333972
http,ftp, ssh, tls .. is EE? Are you braindead or just clinically ignorant?

[Anonymous No.11334156]

>>11333207
What's the deal with computer science.
It's not science, and it's not computer.

[Anonymous No.11334390]

>>11333207
we like mathematics here

[Anonymous No.11334745]

>>11333763
This

[Anonymous No.11334750]

>>11333776
try me, bitch

[Anonymous No.11334758]

>>11333207

[Anonymous No.11334759]

>>11334750

You are a kinetically underdeveloped manlet that struggles to move and walk normally

[Anonymous No.11334765]

>>11334390
Computer Science is Math. I have to take Calculus 2 to get my CS Degree

[Anonymous No.11334817]

>>11334765
>Only up to calc 2
Yikes, Engineers have to take up to calc 3 then take Linear algebra and Differential Equations. I think TCS is a math but you're making a terrible case for it.

[Anonymous No.11334847]

>>11334817
I have to take Linear Algebra or Differential Equations (plus a computer math course) also.

[Anonymous No.11335453]

>>11334817
depending where you go comp sci has to take all those as well

[Anonymous No.11336377]

>>11334817
>Differential Equations
People here often point out DEs as an example of what CS people don't learn.
1) it's fucking trivial, anyone can learn solving DEs (at least the reasonable ones)
2) CS doesn't need those, mostly. Well in graphics and gamedev perhaps
3) DEs in fact are solved on many CS schools as part of numerical mathematics.

[Anonymous No.11336406]

>>11333776
in my experience it's the opposite... CS guys are bro culture

[Anonymous No.11336421]

Holy shit EEtards are pathetic. Good to know I'm living in their head rent free while they seethe on 4channel in their free time hahaha

[Anonymous No.11336422]

>>11333879
Science and philosophy are codependent. Without metaphysics, there would be no goals to reach for. Without physics, we wouldn’t have the technology to save on labor to the point where we have the leisure to wonder up new goals.
I guess theology is sort of like the coding language that turns word symbols into chunks of social rule like an Aesop, or its inverse if you’re working with the outcome and transliterating it. I guess it’s the holy trinity of brainlords

[Anonymous No.11336559]

I am about to begin my CS degree, I have been really excited about it but after reading how much hate it gets between /sci/ and /g/ its gotten into my head and I have begun to doubt it.
Can anyone give me some non-meme insight to reassure myself?

[Anonymous No.11336654]

>>11336421

[Anonymous No.11336661]

>>11336406
No they really aren’t

[Anonymous No.11336664]

>>11336559
Don't let it get to you, sci hates productive members of society with non shit jobs.

[Anonymous No.11336676]

>>11336559
If you are in it for the programming, you are in for a shit-fest most likely. If you are interested in CS, you shouldn't let low-level memers get to you.

[Anonymous No.11336677]

>>11336559
Yeah, it's definitely one of the most marketable degrees out there, if not the most. The tech bubble won't "pop" any time soon if you're considering life as a web or app dev - demand for front and backend developers are high. To make it in research (actual computer "science") or something interesting you'll have to put in extra effort and have talent.

[Anonymous No.11336694]

>>11336664
thank anon thats what i have been trying to remind myself
>>11336676
could you expand on that a little? i do self taught programming but im still a beginner for sure. i hear programming is what a lot of cs majors get jobs in after all, is that a fallacy?
>>11336677
is something that is specifically 'cs' beyond web dev/programming, is that something like, machine learning or ai? i would probably need to go to grad school for that though right?

[Anonymous No.11336703]

>>11336694
Yeah, grad degrees are essential for getting hired for AI research and stuff. Bachelors in CS is basically code monkey training with some mathematic and algorithm training in your 3rd and 4th year.

[Anonymous No.11336766]

>>11336377
>differential equations are trivial
except for the ones that arent, right? like the ones you would learn about if you werent a brainlet?

[Anonymous No.11336771]

>>11336422
computer scientists and chicken tenders are codependent as well

[Anonymous No.11336776]

>>11336694
Programming is weird because it is a prerequisite for getting a computer to do anything for you but every problem requires specific knowledge and skills to solve. When you add in humans there's a huge variety in what you're expected to do and know. I don't know a lot of people who are thrilled to be in the programming industry, even if you are at a high level.

I've read something about having a degree in CS not translating into better performance on programming jobs but that could be false. IMO you are probably better off going to a good school.

[Anonymous No.11336777]

>>11336694
if you want a job as a programmer, you don't need a degree, just learn it and then get a job

[Anonymous No.11336784]

>>11336776
this is just my dumb biased opinion, if you haven't caught on.

[Anonymous No.11336798]

>>11336766
Fuck off. Why would I want to learn solving some equations mechanically? That's not why I go to uni.
If you think you're so smart for being able to solve le tough equations, I'm sorry for you

[Anonymous No.11336825]

>>11333785
[math] \{ CS topics \} subseteq \{ mathematics \} [/math]

[Anonymous No.11336831]

>>11333785
[math] \{ TCS \} \subseteq \{ mathematics \} [/math]
You can easily argue the rest of CS lies somewhere as a subset of engineering research and pure mathematics, which to anyone actually familiar with the field, is basically that with different flavors of math or engineering based on subfield.

[Anonymous No.11336835]

>>11336766
You mean the ones engineering majors never touch because they’re slain by basic analysis? Lol DE’s are hard only when you don’t coddle the students.

[Anonymous No.11336842]

>>11333776
>>11336406
CS is literally both. It’s home to your anime addled nerds and normie bro types, both who usually chase tech clout. Otherwise, it’s also home to many math and physics students who double major and end up doing something their field

[Anonymous No.11336843]

>>11333849
EE’s are cool but they too give themselves a lot of unwarranted self importance for shit they never did. Most of the interesting developments were done in national labs and various research positions in companies...while your typical EE ends up doing fairly rudimentary work applying ages old knowledge at their local company

[Anonymous No.11336881]

>>11334817
>lin alg
Never saw a school where it wasn’t necessary to take this for CS
>calc 3
Not too uncommon a requirement
>diff eq
Less common but not hard, and not uncommon among the common CS major + math minor crowd (and of course the double major crowd.

None of these are examples of hard mathematics worth throwing CS out for. I’d be more angry at the lack of early rigor, lack of reasoning skills among undergrads, and lack of mathematical maturity than I would be their ability to churn out basic methods in integration and differentials.

[Anonymous No.11336914]

Ah, well this thread made me feel bad about myself.

[Anonymous No.11336923]

>>11336914
Why?

[Anonymous No.11336948]

>>11334758
Unironically this
We have the highest starting salaries and the best job market of any /sci/ degree

[Anonymous No.11336959]

>>11333776
correct, they all smell as well

[Anonymous No.11337064]

>>11333207
Is that a pic of a fucking microcontroller driving a literal paper tape Turing machine? That's mind blowingly retarded on several levels. Not only was the whole paper tape thing just a thought experiment, but doing it for real with a micro instead of discrete transistors is just insulting to the history of computing.

[Anonymous No.11337265]

>>11333207
We have this thread everyday

[Anonymous No.11337782]

>>11333207
Circlejerking

[Anonymous No.11337850]

>>11337064
looks like it only prints 1 or 0, which I don't think makes it a turing machine; you have to be able to output and recognize an arbitrary number of symbols right? (which I always envision as the "tokens" we have now)

[Anonymous No.11337860]

>>11333215
/g/'s mainly for programming, PC master race fuckery, and talking about smartphones.

[Anonymous No.11337866]

>>11336559
Cryptography and security are kinda badass if you are willing to autistically devote yourself to keeping up with all the busywork to stay current on modern attacks and defenses.

[Anonymous No.11337870]

>>11336703
I hated the early level shit that exists solely to train code monkeys. Learning a specific toolkit of corporate-approved languages and memorizing various algorithms to be a good little serf to corporate overlords is soul crushing. Most CS majors never see the cool part, because the cool parts and theory aren't marketable.

[Anonymous No.11337879]

>>11336777
The degree is a worthless peice of paper that exists solely to put you in massive debt, unfortunately brainlet hiring managers have drunk the koolaid on that one and won't look twice unless you have shown that you are gullible enough to waste money on simple shit you could learn better off of youtube.

[Anonymous No.11337901]

>>11337850
I'm sure it can read back the numbers. Fuck, I bet it could draw and read a qr code. There's a goddamn micro attached, which basically makes the paper tape a prop for visualizing computation. Though, if you're far enough along to understand a Turing machine's operation then you'd be able to get the insight of its function from reading, making the whole model a pointless curiosity for normies to oogle at.

[Anonymous No.11337959]

>>11333221
/g/ is anti consoomer. They spend all day talking about their 15 year old laptops.

[Anonymous No.11338116]

>>11334759

>kinetically
>not physically

Nice projections you bitter spergdweller

[Anonymous No.11338404]

>>11337959
no, they still subscribe to major consumerism

[Anonymous No.11338407]

>>11333221
ok go to /gif/ and back to your trap threads

[Anonymous No.11338423]

>>11338407
>hurr durr nonsequiter tranny, that'll get him
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.11338515]

>>11337959
that's hipsterism: everybody bandwagons on something that's shitty as a point of pride, like ugly glasses or crappy old bicycles

[Anonymous No.11338529]

>>11338116
I don't mean to defend nigger behavior but you are the retard in this interaction anon.

[Anonymous No.11338537]

>>11334036
thats just the protocols. The mechanisms of encoding information while dealing with noise is firmly in the realms of EE as it started with figuring out why telegraphs were shit

[Anonymous No.11338538]

>>11333207
because most fags here can't understand computer science therefore fear it making them look like they have a low IQ

[Anonymous No.11338547]

This board hates undergrad CS majors because 99% of them are fucking retarded and think taking calc 2 and "discrete math" means they know as much math as someone that took abstract algebra and analysis. Also, they arrogantly talk about how they're DEFINITELY going to work for facebook for 300k a year and bring up stupid programming language/editor wars.

[Anonymous No.11338753]

[Anonymous No.11339141]

>>11338537
Dude, while RF and the like are still classic EE, a lot of information, protocol, and communication research happens in the CS departments of the world. I mean, you really wouldn’t have seen any proof or protocol like PAXOS come from somewhere else, and the information theory EE departments teach is usually insanely watered down.
On the topic of mechanisms - it’s almost entirely what >>11336843 said. Mechanisms and hardware knowledge are important, but due to the rapid maturation of the field and ease in manufacturing process, that role is diminishing in many places that aren’t intel or any other competitive, limited markets. The magic is two sided - bury the physical components and the actual mathematically precise system / theorems that actually take use of the resources, and those come from two departments typically, not one. The whole push is in fact away from hardware specific application since scalability, generality, and large scale problems are what companies are interested in solving for their ventures, and that line of engineering / research lies in applying CS as well as specialized knowledge you would learn as an intern or hire.

So when it really comes down it, yes noise stability in our systems is a good thing and appreciated, but
1) there are way more problems to solve that are fundamentally hard in different ways
2) the accomplishments and careers of old EE’s are not usually comparable to the average - you’re bragging about what is now boiler plate knowledge
3) noise stability research has been part of CS departments in communication complexity as well as actually understanding complexity and theory of learning and information

[Anonymous No.11339175]

>>11338538
I mean, undergrad CS (at least it shouldn’t be if you’re just going the path of least resistance, double majoring and taking the hard / grad CS classes is as hard as any other mathematical stem field) isn’t hard, but I have see people unironically in engineering and math majors score C’s in data structures due to underestimating the material and workload. One engineering sort of ended up like the meme where a student ended up writing an essay saying what code he would write instead of writing it - he wrote out everything in psuedocode and asked the TA to sit down with him and write the project so that he could give him ~75% of the credit for getting the “core design” right. Needless to say, he never broke 15 points on any assignment, 40% on any exam, and failed out of the class.

[Anonymous No.11339306]

>>11339175
desu nobody's gonna ask about your grades

75% wash out of undergrad CS through some form or another, I doubt it has anything to do with difficulty.

I personally don't think a 4.0 is worth the investment. Aim for a C, or a D if you're a good grade surfer.

[Anonymous No.11339318]

>>11339306
Grades matter when they matter. They’re what you need to be considered for internships most of the time, after which grades are far less important (alongside your personal projects and experience). A 4.0 is nice but not necessarily the goal, but you should keep at least a 3.0 and really aim for 3.5 to keep all opportunities open.
>aim for a C or D
This is horrible device. Half assing puts you into more codemonkey tier jobs, and it reinforces really bad habits. Yes you can get a job with a 2.0 but it won’t be anything good. A D average, which is 1.0, won’t get you anything lmao. Grades aren’t all but saying they don’t matter or that they aren’t checked for basic competency is slacker cope

[Anonymous No.11339857]

>>11339306
>C, or a D
Holy shit massive cope
If you can’t score a B or higher in data structures you shouldn’t be in university

[Anonymous No.11339859]

>>11333207
It's just a popular /sci/ meme don't let it rustle your jimmies kid.

[Anonymous No.11339881]

>>11339857
I accidentally got an A in data structures and a lot of other courses. my GPA wasn't even that bad. In DS I chose the hardest algorithm, but it was still less overall work. Usually the hardest problems give you the most points for least effort. If I can only turn in one project and I have the choice between an A and an F, I'll obviously take the A.

For exams tho, aim for a C.

>>11339318
internships are scams, just apply to regular jobs and do part-time.

I don't know why people do this.

[Anonymous No.11340193]

>>11333207
>input
>process
>output
Fuck this stupid fucking meme.

[Anonymous No.11341006]

>>11339881
>I accidentally got an A in data structures and a lot of other courses. my GPA wasn't even that bad.
>accidentally
lol okay
>hardest problems
No, I get your point about effort, but I also think going to university with this mindset sort of defeats the purpose. This strat targets a C average, if not lower, and in the CS degree, that translates to entry level jobs that aren't nearly as strong as advertised. At that point, you literally just ought to do a bootcamp or self teach and save the money, since university doesn't boost your opportunities in this field with those grades.
>internships are scams
CS internships pay handsomely and look great on the resume. Exactly how are they a scam?
>just apply to regular jobs and do part-time.
again, you either don't know the market or are spouting bullshit. This will work with basic entry level shit in your local area but not with any of the jobs it's worth getting a CS degree for.