Rockets do not “push” the exhaust out. The exhaust moves because of pressure gradient

[Anonymous No.11304252]

Analogy of someone throwing an object is wrong. People that say “conservation of momentum bruh” don’t know what they are applying it to.

“ Conservation of momentum is a fundamental law of physics which states that the momentum of a system is constant if there are no external forces acting on the system. It is embodied in Newton's first law (the law of inertia).”

The external force is provided by pressure gradient force (yes it is a force that can be calculated), not the rocket.

Since rockets do not push the exhaust out, there can be no opposite force on the rocket. Rockets work in atmosphere because the exhaust pushes on the atmospheric pressure. There is no atmosphere in space for the rocket to push off of. Hence every rocket launch, the rocket ends of moving horizontally and not straight up. Orbit is simply an excuse for dishonesty

[Anonymous No.11304261]

>>11304252
OK schizo

[Anonymous No.11304267]

>>11304252
>The external force is provided by pressure gradient force (yes it is a force that can be calculated), not the rocket.
Then calculate how this external pressure gradient generates all (or most) of the force of a rocket engine.

[Anonymous No.11304272]

>>11304252
> Rockets do not “push” the exhaust out.

Yes they do. The energy is provided by combustion of the fuel in chemical rockets. The velocity of the expelled particles determines the specific impulse, the fuel efficiency of the craft.

> The external force is provided by pressure gradient force

No.

[Anonymous No.11304818]

I have seen the ISS with my own eyes through a telescope. I have also seen geostationary satellites as small points of light though a telescope; when I pointed a satellite dish right at them I got a TV signal for a relatives farm. Please explain OP how those got up there if rockets don't work in space.

[Anonymous No.11304823]

op confuses aerodynamics with propulsion. very sad.

[Anonymous No.11304824]

>>11304252
>Since rockets do not push the exhaust out
...but they do push the exhaust out. Fluid accelerates out the tail end of a rocket engine only because there is a pressure exerted on the fluid. Do you remember Newton's 3rd law? There can only be a force on a fluid if the fluid exerts that force back onto something, and in this case that something is the interior surfaces of the rocket engine. You are a dumbass.

[Anonymous No.11304836]

>>11304823
That was to be expected from nu-sci.
The only way not to get sad here is to drop all expectations.

[Anonymous No.11304871]

Combustion merely creates high pressure. That high pressure moves toward low pressure. If the atmosphere had the same pressure as the rocket, there would be no gas movement.

Google pressure gradient force equation to learn how to calculate the force. There are some plenty of examples of how gases move along a pressure gradient. Like wind.

[Anonymous No.11305007]

they actually work worse in atmosphere lol

[Anonymous No.11305035]

Newton’s third law only applies if the rocket applies force in order to push the exhaust. But it’s pressure gradient force that moves the exhaust.
It’s like saying there is an equal and opposite force on your hand when you drop and object from your hand.
When a 175lbs person picks up 200lbs and drops it from a height, the person doesn’t get lifted up off the ground.
That is how dishonest people explain how rockets work

[Owner No.11305053]

Thanks for copying without quoting.

I have already mentioned here that the first law of Newton is gone thanks to this.

But you haven't read all my posts so you don't understand what is pressure yet.

Keep research my little student.

[Anonymous No.11305054]

>>11304252
flerthshart detected

[Owner No.11305057]

I mean that the first law of Newton is gone thanks to the ignorance about pressure. I have the most advanced speech about it.

[Owner No.11305062]

>>11305054

Go back to your coffin you foolish follower of Newton and Einstein.

[Anonymous No.11305066]

>>11305035
But the pressure of the exhaust in the engine pushes against the rocket too.

[Owner No.11305075]

Pressure indeed has a role into this rocket stuff however it's irrelevant compared to the force of the explosion of the fuel.

[Anonymous No.11305080]

>>11305062

[Anonymous No.11305083]

So when wind starts to blow on the back of your head, you feel it. But why don’t you feel the wind push off your face when the air in front of you starts to move away?

Newton’s first law is inertia. The inertia is overcome by pressure gradient force.

[Owner No.11305094]

Even the pressure effect would make a spaceship move thanks to the "first law of Newton" so what I think is that you are taking the idea of pressure and applying it wrongly.

The fuel could just get out of a spaceship thanks to pressure and not make it move.

Actually pressure has very little to do with the movement of a spaceship, it could make something move with pressure using more complex ricochet effects inside a chamber, however as I said before it is irrelevant to actual rockets.

[Anonymous No.11305095]

>>11305094
>The fuel could just get out of a spaceship thanks to pressure and not make it move.
No.

[Owner No.11305097]

So actually the rocket moves thanks to one pushing another in any way.

[Owner No.11305103]

>>11305095

Yes it could just go to another direction and not make an opposite force, that's why the first law of Newton is gone.

I have pointed it out here yesterday or the day before.

[Anonymous No.11305111]

>>11305103
>it can start moving spontaneously with no force
plz build infinite energy machine now

[Anonymous No.11305116]

How can pressure be irrelevant. If there is no pressure gradient then there is no exhaust editing the rocket.

Let’s say an indestructible rocket goes to the sun where the atmospheric pressure is equal to the pressure created by combustion in the rocket chamber, how will the rocket move?

[Anonymous No.11305120]

Stop giving stupid namefags attention. Report the thread and move on.

[Owner No.11305126]

>>11305120

Go find a coffin.

[Anonymous No.11305127]

>>11305120
>Report the thread and move on.
For what? Neither being stupid nor being a namefag is against the rules.

[Owner No.11305129]

>>11305111

You would need to understand what is pressure and learn my two laws of physics (which are now the fundaments of Physics) to figure out that this is not possible.

I have already posted it here. Research. The truth is out there.

[Anonymous No.11305131]

>>11305129

[Owner No.11305143]

>>11305131

Instead of asking me about the two laws you have decided to not to do so. You have chosen your path. You may think using the search engine now or think about yourself (bad option). Have fun.

[Anonymous No.11305150]

Actually Joules-Thomson already showed that gases expand freely into a vacuum without doing work. No work means no force applied. However work is done when gas expands into an area where pressure is greater than 0

[Anonymous No.11305151]

>>11305103
that too is a rocket, known as a cold gas thruster
a good down-to-earth example is a blown up balloon that's let free so the gas escapes

[Owner No.11305154]

>>11305150

if so the first law of Newton has already a good reason to be revoked by Academy, in case he has already done a work about it.

[Anonymous No.11305157]

A major problem with the whole "rockets can't work in a vacuum" hypothesis is that the entire space race would be impossible, and there is plenty of evidence that it happened.

[Owner No.11305160]

I dedicate this popular Nobel to 4chan

[Owner No.11305165]

my hammer is always useful

[Anonymous No.11305170]

Yea evidence like an uncut video of a rocket going into space.
Oh wait there isn’t one. Well at least there are a lot of edited videos.

[Owner No.11305172]

and to Joules

[Owner No.11305179]

the discussion here is about the first law of Newton, it is gone because gases expand in vacuum even without an external force being applied to it. In case someone could show me a work of Joules about it I would be grateful.

[Owner No.11305182]

not even gases, anything would expand in vacuum, except elementary particles

[Owner No.11305185]

my work is deeper, however Joules is an excellent quote

[Owner No.11305194]

James Prescott Joule you mean right? find his work

[Anonymous No.11305213]

>>11304252
Yes, and you can push gradient harder by accelerated ions. Literally, it can burn already accelerated, but you need to keep it still burning close to engine.

[Owner No.11305238]

Man forget this rocket discussion it's the opposition of forces that make the movement and that's it. Pressure has little to do with it. The idea of using pressure as a way to move things is possible but it still would be a finite source of energy since the gas would run out. And it's a weak force in our space environment. In vacuum it would be another discussion. Space is too fullfilled. You would need a more empty environment to make this practical. And the object that would be moved would be very light and the system to use the expansion of the gas would be more complex.

Maybe very compressed gases could make a difference. But why use the expansion of the gas caused by pressure to move a rocket instead of exploding the gas?

In theory, yes, gases could be used to move objects even without burning it. However, very little use. It could save someone one time when you are lost in space without energy to burn the gas.

[Owner No.11305273]

I would say that the expansion of gas in space would make a small counterfoce to the object and it would start a practical constant movement, this could at least send a drone or smallspaceship into a direction. that's it.

[Owner No.11305278]

and this counterforce could be adquired using a more complex system then just releasing the gas without the propper care

[Owner No.11305279]

acquired

[Owner No.11305287]

if the guys from the ISS are reading this they could suggest this system, however the safity of keeping this gas there should be analysed and I don't know how much gas would be enough to make a strong force to push the ISS to Earth.

[Owner No.11305303]

well it could make a differente because the ISS is close to Earth and the speed would be accelerated by Earth's gravity. Who knows,

[Owner No.11305306]

However I don't know how the ISS works, if they are able to land or not. Bye

[Anonymous No.11305321]

“ DescriptionAn explosion is a rapid increase in volume and release of energy in an extreme manner, usually with the generation of high temperatures and the release of gases.“

High temp and creation of gases is what is required pressure.

Pressure*Volume=#molecules*constant (R)*temperature

Explosion increases temperature and the #of gas molecules.

So pressure has everything to do with rockets

[Anonymous No.11305332]

>>11304267
you need a partial differential equation for that. non-linear too.

[Owner No.11305333]

>Hurr durr I'm a huge faggot please rape my face

[Anonymous No.11305335]

>>11304823
aerodynamics is a concept, propulsion is a specific technique.

[Anonymous No.11305344]

>Owner

Pathetic
Shit
Eating
Undergrad
Dropout

[Owner No.11305430]

>>11305344

So tell me how the expansion of gases in vacuum works. Mr. PhD in Physics.

[Anonymous No.11305436]

>>11305430
why don’t you read a book, Mr. Innumerate?

[Owner No.11305455]

I have two laws that I developed myself:

- elementary particles (which are energy particles) do not expand in vacuum;
- non-elementary particles expand in vacuum;

Particles expand in vacuum because of it's spin, the spin makes a particle fly out, particles by principle are always trying to expand, it need more and more space.

Release a rock in total vacuum and it would be destroyed.

What sticks a particle to another is spin too, but on a manner that I don't wanna explain, I have lessons about this here.

However, the effect of being together do not resist vacuum, because part of the particle would not be sticked to the other and free to expansion.

This expansion does not cause an opposite force, the particles just separate.

[Owner No.11305460]

I should write a book and make you read it by force.

[Owner No.11305464]

would be free to expansion*

[Anonymous No.11305470]

>>11305460
just stop, every post you’ve made is cringe and the cringe level by now is off the charts

[Owner No.11305479]

>>11305470

You are just a normal person, please do not mess up with the Owner.

[Owner No.11305481]

>>11305470

No arguments so just cry.

[Owner No.11305485]

The particle spins fastly, is trying to fly out, but is sticked to another thanks to the meeting of two spinnings. However, the force of releasing it is stronger in vacuum I'm pretty sure.

[Owner No.11305497]

why do you think that the universe is expanding you idiot? just cry more

[Owner No.11305500]

Actually it's not the universe that is expanding, this is a mistake of mine. It's the group of galaxies that most of scientists consider "the universe" is expanding. The correct idea is that the universe includes vacuum.

[Owner No.11305502]

and other "universes" in case we adopt groups of galaxies and the concept of "universe" which is not appropriate

[Owner No.11305504]

you should watch more Japanese anime

[Anonymous No.11305505]

>keeps posting cringe
why are you doing this? do you not see how sad you are?

[Owner No.11305523]

>>11305505

A nobleman like me shouldn't be talking with a dirty trash like you who doesn't argue but only insults

[Owner No.11305531]

hopefully the universe would stop to expand when it finds another universe to stick to... but who knows the consequences

[Owner No.11305537]

I developed myself one thousand years of Math and Physics who do you think that you are? curve and obey. Bye

[Anonymous No.11305539]

>>11305537
>Bye
finally. don’t come back

[Anonymous No.11305543]

>>11305035
>Newton’s third law only applies if the rocket applies force in order to push the exhaust

The exhaust applies momentum to the rocket. There is nowhere else for the momentum to go.

> But it’s pressure gradient force that moves the exhaust.

Momentum is conserved, and given to the rocket.

> It’s like saying there is an equal and opposite force on your hand when you drop and object from your hand.

Rocket exhaust isn’t “dropped”.

> When a 175lbs person picks up 200lbs and drops it from a height, the person doesn’t get lifted up off the ground.

Horrible analogy. Here’s a better analogy.
Stick a rocket under your and light it.

[Anonymous No.11305545]

>>11305116
>How can pressure be irrelevant. If there is no pressure gradient then there is no exhaust editing the rocket.

Pressure differentials are unnecessary for accelerating rocket propellant.

[Anonymous No.11305546]

>>11305179
> it is gone because gases expand in vacuum even without an external force being applied to it

The external force is gas particles colliding you retard.

[Owner No.11305555]

>>11305546

You are such a boring boy. Gotta learn some Owner of Physics doctrine. Well I can't blame you for not having access to my education.

[Anonymous No.11305564]

>>11305555
i thought you said “Bys” already. you’re still shitting up this board? please leave

[Anonymous No.11305567]

>>11305564
*Bye

[Anonymous No.11305958]

Again for some people that don’t read:

“Conservation of momentum is a fundamental law of physics which states that the momentum of a system is constant if there are no external forces acting on the system. It is embodied in Newton's first law (the law of inertia).“

The external force is pressure gradient force. The rocket is not required to push the exhaust in order to conserve momentum.

Pressure differential is necessary. If the atmospheric pressure was the same as the pressure in the rocket chamber, how can the exhaust exit the rocket? It can’t because there is no pressure difference and the rocket won’t move.

[Anonymous No.11305966]

>>11305054
Why Japan?

[Owner No.11306010]

I am a colossal faggot who doesn't know what he's talking about. Please disregard the entirety of this thread, especially my previous posts. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.11306567]

>>11304252

if you push a cardboard box, your hands have an area and they apply a force to one side of the box. Hence, the box moves because of pressure gradient.