/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11220800]

Humanity needs to produce as much food in the next 40 years as in the last 8,000 combined. The destructiveness of industrial agriculture is contributing to an ongoing mass extinction and global ecological collapse.

How do you plan on surviving the great 21st century famine/ecopocalypse?

[Anonymous No.11220802]

Why did Russia stop using fertilizers ?

[Anonymous No.11220807]

>>11220802
Economic collapse

[Anonymous No.11220864]

>>11220800
No one cares.

[Anonymous No.11220870]

>>11220800
The CONSUUUUUMERS are as disconnected from the realities of food production, energy, and resources as they are from the suffering of every other living thing on this planet.

[Anonymous No.11220924]

>>11220800
>Humanity
You mean nations that shit out more people than they can feed, that's their problem to solve. Western nations will be fine.

>The destructiveness of industrial agriculture is contributing to an ongoing mass extinction
Industrial aggriculture and the synthesizing of fertilizer is the reason populations have exploded in the first place, they cause the opposite of mass extinction. Malpractice of these things is what causes ecological problems, but that's nothing that can't be fixed. If all else fails, just plant your own food in your garden or in a greenhouse and you'll be fine.

[Anonymous No.11221745]

>>11220924
>You mean nations that shit out more people than they can feed, that's their problem to solve. Western nations will be fine

Fucking moron, “developed” nations are the centers of agricultural land degradation and are wholly dependent for their existence upon the exploitation of the rest of the world.

[Anonymous No.11221782]

>>11221745
Not the United States. While they import certain goods they are a net food exporter.

[Anonymous No.11221787]

>>11221745
>Fucking moron, “developed” nations are the centers of agricultural land degradation and are wholly dependent for their existence upon the exploitation of the rest of the world.

No.

[Anonymous No.11221829]

>>11220800
What do you think we will run out first? Cheap phosphate?
Also, when the shortage will start?

[Anonymous No.11221849]

>>11220800
I'm an American, so hopefully we just keep all our food to ourselves instead of continueing to feed you foreigners. Godamn this is the greatest country on earth. What the fuck do the rest of you asshats even do but piggy back off our handouts, services and protection. I wouldn't have this "fuck you" attitude if it weren't for the "fuck you" attitude we seem to get from everyone.

[Anonymous No.11222389]

>>11220807
maybe we should economically collapse everywhere else as well?

[Anonymous No.11222411]

THE SKY IS FALLING

[Anonymous No.11222418]

>>11221849
American as well, we won't be able to feed ourselves in 50 years. Shits going to hit the fan, gun up brother.

[Anonymous No.11222508]

>>11220802
We started again. It even killed a bunch of bees around here.

[Anonymous No.11222519]

>>11220800
Human agriculture production outpasses demand for agricultural products and has done nothing but go up for more than forty years. There will be no famine and no apocalypse, but there will be retarded doomsayers on the Internet proclaiming the world will end like there have been since the days of Rome and beyond. First it was Jesus coming back and now it’s “Muh ecosystem”, like nature offers shit to humans that we don’t have to remove from it violently.

[Anonymous No.11222541]

>>11221829
>Phosphate

Literally infinite resource. It doesn’t fly into space. We can just extract it from wastewater and dig more of it up. Earth is ginormous.

[Anonymous No.11222608]

>>11222541
>We can just extract it from wastewater and dig more of it up

I was asking for cheap phosphate.
Not about non-economical or insufficient was of getting it.

[Anonymous No.11222621]

>>11220800
Daily reminder we can easily generate that much food in one of two ways:
>converting a body of water about half the size of lake superior into an algae farm could feed a population of 11 billion
>an asteroid with high phosphorus content being captured and mined would allow industrial agricultural to reach comical levels of production

[Anonymous No.11222634]

>>11222608
>I was asking for cheap phosphate.

What matters to the people who mine it is
P R O F I T A B L E. The less easy to exploit phosphates there are, the more harder to exploit deposits become profitable.

> Not about non-economical

It becomes economical.

>or insufficient was of getting it.

It is sufficient, since the phosphates we consume are in our feces. It’s practically a closed loop.

[Anonymous No.11222639]

>>11220800
Eat cows, burn coal, green the north

[Anonymous No.11222824]

>>11222634
The problem is that our limited resources will put our economical system under high pressure.

If it become expensive to access basic resources, then we can say good bye to our society.

[Anonymous No.11222889]

>>11222824
People would just pay more for food and eat cheaper food too.

[Anonymous No.11222978]

>>11220800
This shit again. Regurgitated since the 60's to make you afraid and consume and stockpile even more. FOH

[Anonymous No.11223285]

>>11221782
They’re only a net food exporter because of the military-economic hegemony over the petroleum industry. Without cheap fossil fuel and synthetic fertilizers, American agriculture can’t feed anyone.

Mass starvation is going to happen, and it’s gonna hit Amerifats especially hard.

[Anonymous No.11223293]

[Anonymous No.11223294]

>>11220800
Welcome to kali yuga niggle

[Anonymous No.11223322]

>>11222519
>Human agriculture production outpasses demand for agricultural products and has done nothing but go up for more than forty years.

Do you know literally nothing about the statement you just made?
That productivity gain is entirely due to the so-called “green revolution” of synthetic nitrogen and heavy mechanization, both of which have been utterly catastrophic for soil health and topsoil degradation.

It’s an artificially inflated boom, and it’s actively undermining the basis of its own existence, at several thousand times the sustainable rate.

[Anonymous No.11223401]

>>11222978
You shouldn’t be afraid, you should be eager.
You shouldn’t “consume” at all, and you certainly shouldn’t be stockpiling.

Rewild.

[Anonymous No.11223426]

Why do liberals never suggest China, India, and Africa, stop being shit, when they talk about the global problems?

Only white people need to eat bugs and pay carbon taxes. Everyone else is fine.

[Anonymous No.11223448]

>>11222889
They tried that experiment in the US and now everyone is malnourished and borderline retarded

[Anonymous No.11223510]

>>11222418
Naw, we got shitloads of food. Ever go to the northwest? We got so much fucking corn it became economically viable to use an involved chemical process to turn it into high fructose corn syrup and use it instead of sugar in everything.
Anyone who's ever taken a basic world geography/politics class should know this. We export enough food to feed the entire world multiple times. People starve because of distribution. Feeding tribes in Africa just makes them double in population and require double the food. We've done it before, that's why Africa's so fucking big now.

[Anonymous No.11223512]

>>11223285
Maybe that's why they are so fat. They'll be able to survive on salt and water for an entire year.

[Anonymous No.11223535]

>>11223426
Because those nations are still developing and don't have the same abundance of wealth and freedom of choice like Western developed nations?

[Anonymous No.11223545]

>>11223535

Yeah, that's why India dumps all its garbage in the ocean and China just freely vents CFCs into the air. No fault of their own

[Anonymous No.11223583]

>>11220924
> they cause the opposite of mass extinction
And when they can no longer be sustained, that inverse mass-extinction will be inverted. How is this not literally the most obvious thing in the world?

[Anonymous No.11223587]

>>11222541
>t. Dunning-Kruger Effect poster child, also mildly retarded

[Anonymous No.11223590]

>>11222411
>stawman designed to shut down discussion without presenting any arguments
The absolute state of this board..

[Anonymous No.11223596]

>>11222519
Holy crap anon, do you actually believe what you wrote here?
>things can't go down cause they've been going up for a long time now
>religious nuts said the future will be bad and were wrong, therefore the future can't be bad
>the ecosystem is irrelevant somehow
It's like you have no comprehension of how the physical system in which you live works. At all.

[Anonymous No.11223597]

>>11223583
you're essentially trying to convince a methed out lunatic that he's not immortal... don't waste your time.

[Anonymous No.11223600]

>>11223426
Why do people like you always use idiotic liberals and their hypocrisy as an excuse to dismiss legitimate issues?

[Anonymous No.11223615]

>>11223600
They're entire existence is built around excuses. They take 0 responsibility for anything. Ostensibly more repugnant than hypocrisy.

[Anonymous No.11223665]

>>11223510
Overproduction of onions and corn and the massive overapplication of fertilizers involved in industrial agriculture is absolutely fucking devastating the ecosystem and the majority if arable soil.

It is an enormously unsustainable extraction industry. It is rapidly destroying the ecological basis of the entire planet, it’s a fucking hellscape overshoot process fueled entirely by the finitie supply of cheap fossil fue energy inputs.

Industrial agriculture is near-term planetary suicide.

[Anonymous No.11223670]

>>11223665
>onions
wtf meant onions, fucking kill me

[Anonymous No.11223671]

>>11223615
Why don't you take responsibility for what is quite clearly faulty reasoning based on your hatred of a group that has no effect on the truth proposition at hand?

[Anonymous No.11223675]

>>11223671
wat?
eat a bag of dicks, you fucking faggot

LOL

[Anonymous No.11223677]

>>11222389
that's the plan only it will be blamed on climate change

[Anonymous No.11223688]

>>11223675
Looks like I really hit a nerve there anon. Are you going to take responsibility for your ridiculous emotional reaction?

[Anonymous No.11223694]

>>11223688
dude im calm as fuck.
reading the kind of shit your kind (retards) posts actually gives me a headache

[Anonymous No.11223704]

>>11223694
>I have no arguments so I use insults.
>NO! IT'S YOU WHO"S THE RETARD!!
pathetic.. absolutely pathetic

[Anonymous No.11223752]

>>11223675
So the fact that you're using
>nuh liberals are stupid!
as your reason to dismiss an issue actually makes sense in your mind?

[Anonymous No.11223760]

>>11220870
that's a CONSOOMER

[Anonymous No.11223778]

>>11223675

[Anonymous No.11223870]

>>11223694
>wat?
>eat a bag of dicks, you fucking faggot
>dude im calm as fuck
Then why do you type some angry retard?

[Anonymous No.11223875]

>>11223401
Ok vegan homo

[Anonymous No.11223876]

>>11223665
>t. Cityboy on his iPhone

[Anonymous No.11223926]

>>11223675

[Anonymous No.11223962]

Exercise my right as an American to stockpile rifles and ammunition. Use my profitable career as a union mechanical contractor to buy a home in a rural area, where I can at least grow enough food or hunt to feed myself. Try to have a son.

Keep redpilling my fellow Muricans on the destructive nature of industrial agriculture and the pitfalls of Western consumerist culture.

[Anonymous No.11223969]

>>11223426
They want you to eat bugs
https://youtu.be/KpZi3WN7Wjc

[Anonymous No.11223981]

>we can't produce enough food!
Bullshit.
>https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming/
These types of farms can be run any where, soil is not a problem as you can bring in proper soil, produce year round with yields triple to quadruple that of a conventional farm and can treat almost any kind of crop issue. If American farms converted we would easily out pace demand for centuries. This also includes livestock and uses 90% less pesticides.

[Anonymous No.11223994]

>>11223981

I think everyone here is aware that there are sustainable, environmentally friendly ways to produce food, but that isn't the issue.

The issue is that we are nearing critical mass in terms of overpopulation. The countries that have the most children are the ones that contribute the least to the advancement of civilization.

Industrial society coupled with the West's obsession with consumerist culture have set us on an irreversible course. Progressivism in the West forbids manufacturing to be executed domestically, for obvious reasons. So most of the shit that is harmful to the environment, and the shit where you can't justify paying decent wages to workers is done in places like China.

This has lead to a situation in which the demands of Western society are met through mass production of cheap materials in places like China, where there is no obligation or incentive to follow abstract parameters like EPA legislation. China and India are polluting the air and the oceans at a remarkable rate, because we are literally fucking paying them to do it.

Our problems are way more sophisticated than "Nah but hey look at this giant, underutilized field! Think of all the corn we can grow or houses we can build here!" That will just further our issues.

[Anonymous No.11223996]

>>11223675

[Anonymous No.11223999]

>>11223981
>paywall
Thanks..

[Anonymous No.11224007]

>>11220800
who gives a fuck food is just hydrogen and carbon just use molecular assemblers lmao

[Anonymous No.11224032]

>>11223994

People talk a big game, but they always back out when it's time to pay.

We could force manufacturing back to the US. Obviously nothing is going to beat paying a Chinese worker $1/week and dumping the waste in the river. The $2000 Apple computer will have to cost $4000, but the best thing is that the EPA gets to regulate those factories.

This and nuclear power are the only ways to fix this issue, and neoliberalism is against both. People only want solutions that don't inconvenience then, such as banning straws or raising emission standards 1%. Both the US and UK political parties only cater to big business. The champagne communists are going down the same road as the oil lobbyist conservatives

[Anonymous No.11224036]

I know /pol/tards absolute seeth at the idea but we really need to cut down on meat production. It makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.11224040]

>>11224036
>allowing humans the nutrients required for proper brain health makes no sense
kys

[Anonymous No.11224042]

>>11223999
>not just hitting stop during the loading before it reaches pay wall
Need to work on your internets.
Basically it's about how the Dutch are producing 30% of the world's food in a country the size of a small state with terrible growing conditions and shit soil by climate controlled farms where everything's monitored and controlled, using certain plants and bacteria to produce fertilizer, growing crops in nutrient rich solutions instead of soil. They are the world's 2nd largest exporter of food while only having enough farms to fill Manhattan in size.

[Anonymous No.11224053]

>>11224036

>Eat the bugs goy

[Anonymous No.11224058]

>>11224042

The US has three times more people on welfare than the entire Scandinavian population. It just doesn't work when you factor the illegals niggers and refugees in.

[Anonymous No.11224065]

>>11224040
>allowing humans the nutrients required for proper brain health makes no sense
either you know absolutely nothing about nutrition or you're a literal 80 iq dolt who can't read meta-analysis

[Anonymous No.11224069]

>>11223675

[Anonymous No.11224070]

>>11224032
Absolutely agree with you. Nuclear energy is literally the only viable option we have. The technological limits (materially speaking) of Wind Turbines and Solar Panels are what make them inefficient. They are literally meme options.

Need to keep trudging along with fission until we can achieve fusion.

>>11224036

Nah you goofball we need to REGULATE POPULATION EXPANSION.
Its not possible to feed the amount of people we are generating.

[Anonymous No.11224071]

>>11224065
I think your brain stopped working,
We need some meat for this manlet right away!

[Anonymous No.11224074]

>>11224071
post a study that unequivocally states you need meat for "proper brain health"

you can't do it, you'll just spout nonsense and strawman crap

[Anonymous No.11224075]

>>11224058
Thanks for the off topic post Pollack. Threads about how we can't produce enough food, post is about how food is easy. If it becomes necessary to produce more food the solution is already there. Meanwhile I'm working on attaining funding for a climate controlled hemp farm to rake in easy extract bucks.

[Anonymous No.11224078]

>>11223675

[Anonymous No.11224237]

>>11224070
>Absolutely agree with you. Nuclear energy is literally the only viable option we have. The technological limits (materially speaking) of Wind Turbines and Solar Panels are what make them inefficient. They are literally meme options.

What? Nuclear energy is not exactly easy to build and it's costly in many places since it's only cheap when funded by states and built at a large scale. Wind and turbine made huge amount of progress and are extremely viable in many nations as well as needing.

You can't just say "ERRY THING NUCLEAR" without understanding why some states can do it like France, China or Russia

[Anonymous No.11224238]

>>11224075
Netherlands is in the EU with immense protectionism to back it up. It doesn't compete on the same level that other nations do at all. Most develoeped nations don't even play fairly in agriculture.

[Anonymous No.11224260]

>>11220800
well you can clearly see that ayysians are the problem

[Anonymous No.11224307]

>>11220800
>believing and promoting neo-neo-malthusian scaremongering bullshit
You guys are almost as bad as the doomsday prophets

[Anonymous No.11224336]

>>11223675

[Anonymous No.11224348]

>>11224307
>talking about how unlimited growth on a finite planet leads to problems is scaremongering bullshit!
Imagine actually believing this. Imagine anon..

[Anonymous No.11224349]

>>11220800

[Anonymous No.11224481]

>>11224307
Imagine it

[Anonymous No.11224635]

>>11222634
God I hate you fags, trying to flex your absolutely elementary understanding of economics to people desperately trying to explain something as simple as "things getting expensive actually has consequences" to you.

[Solivagus/ECHS No.11224638]

Important question: What would be the FATAL level of calories for a human to ingest?

I ask because I've seen American whales reach half-a-ton and I'm curious as to why their own bodies are such perfect flesh-generation machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_jWHffIx5E

[Anonymous No.11224641]

>>11224307
Malthusianism is a correct an incomplete description of reality.
Faggot

[Solivagus/ECHS No.11224642]

HOW DO I SAVE YOU FROM YOURSELF, AMERICA?!

[Anonymous No.11224662]

>>11223675