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/sci/ - Science & Math

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11202981 No.11202981 [Reply] [Original]

>The hard problem of consciousness

>> No.11202985

*igger

>> No.11202987

>>11202981
>dude everything I see is 100% true man
>but fuck historical people, those guys didn't know what they were talking about and kept on seeing dumb shit like ghosts everywhere
This is the shit I fucking hate man. Being all 'the newest greatest theory is 100% complete and accurate. Totally. Totally.'

>> No.11203004

>>11202981
>the really hard problem of consciousness

>> No.11203017

>>11202981
wait, you're calling people who post about the "hard problem of consciousness" basedjaks?

i thought that /pol/ called /sci/ basedjaks, and /pol/ loves god and jesus and spirits and muh soul and "consciousness" whereas we always said you are just a bunch of chemical reactions in your head....

>> No.11203036

imagine rejecting emergence and then proceeding to overthink the problem with nonsense philosophy

>> No.11203050

>>11203017
You're barking up the wrong tree. You're assuming that the OP had a goal or message to convey with his post, or that the text in his post had any significance.

The reason this thread was made was to post a picture of basedjak. That is all. Everything else is just to make it technically /sci/ related so it takes longer to get deleted.

By the way, this is true of every thread that starts with a picture of soijak

>> No.11203341

The hard problem is impossible to solve using spacetime as any kind of metric. The only answer is that CONSCIOUSNESS JUST IS, and we don't know why, how, what, who, etc. We might figure that out when our brains die but we will not cease being. Before you were born as a human, you ARE. There is only now. You existed before birth, you exist now and you will exist when the brain dies. Scientists thinking they can solve this problem is just about the cutest thing in the universe.

>> No.11203346

>>11203341
take your meds schizo

>> No.11203350

>>11203036
Well, 4chan is consciously emerging as the only worthwhile cultural export of the United States of America.

>> No.11203351
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11203351

>The totality of all that exists

>> No.11203362
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11203362

>>11203341
So then why does anyone consider it a problem? Would this not be a psychological condition schema that requires curing because certain modalities of thought don't healthily truncate repetitive dead-end or zero-sym behaviour?

Or is it just a thought exercise to keep brain strong by agonizing over:
1. Why me?
2. Why now?
3. Why not anything else?
4. Who will tell me when something, or things, will be different?
5. When will I believe a source of information that is not myself to be the explanation for massive change?

>> No.11203369
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11203369

>>11202981
>IT'S THE ONLY THING WE KNOW FOR SURE EXISTS!!!
>I THINK THEREFORE I AM!!!
I hate these Chalmers-faggots so much. Machines need to kill us all so this meme can finally be put to rest and our AI betters can colonize the galaxy without being held back by retards who can't comprehend how strong beliefs don't have to map to anything literally true (especially not strong beliefs that conveniently suppose our own abstractions of our brain processes as random biological organisms in the middle of fucking nowhere far away from any interesting parts of the observable universe are somehow the fundamental basis for reality in general).

>> No.11203370
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11203370

>BLACKHOLES ARE LIKE UNIVERSE VACUUM CLEANERS

>> No.11203387

>>11203362
the REAL hard problem is not "why is there subjective experience". the real hard problem is:

how the fuck can the be separation of consciousness from other consciousness? it has to be going on one way or another. either im the only consciousness that exists (im the ultimate thing) and ive decided to block myself off from the rest of myself to experience the universe as a dumbed down creature (separation problem there) OR I am one of many conscious points which are experiencing brain input (human beings, maybe animals), and somehow our consciousness are not one with each other. either way, its the separation of consciousness from other consciousness that is the real enigma. how can there be another consciousness other than my own? think about that for a while. it will perplex you wildly. the answer in the end is- consciousness just is what it is, and there simply is no explanation for it.

>> No.11203403

>>11203387
... What am I supposed to be perplexed by? The space of the question holder is always one of isolation. If you're the one to ask and fret, then you're the one opting to be empty so the rest of the universe can keep moving forward.

I provide answers because I am time. I only care if/when things are in front of my point of referencable isolation.

>> No.11203412

>>11203403
You're supposed to be perplexed by the separation problem. Either there are multiple consciousnesses, or you are god who has severed yourself from the rest of yourself for a little dumb fun.

>> No.11203418

>>11203403
Either way, the fact that there has to be more than one point of subjective experience is impossible to make sense out of in our current state.

>> No.11203438

>>11203412
Beyond you telling me I am supposed to be perplexed I cannot locate a reason to be thusly.

How could a divine perspective/experience point ever be divisible from the inspection/interaction of others?
>My eternal rape universe is for all, save me.

>>11203418
Why? Do you not have a name or friendly user ID we can use as input on a quantum differential equation? Seems more like you give up and presume others would also.

>> No.11203448

>>11203412
you didn't really explain what is weird about the obvious common sense view that there are multiple separate consciousnesses.
i'd put it this way: one can distinguish between the hypothetical world where one is a zombie and the same one except were one does have inner experience. In the zombie case there would simply be nothing to experience. However for others this distinction seems meaningless. It's hard to attach any meaning (it's not simply an epistemological issue where one can't know for sure) to the "further fact" that other people actually have inner experience, rather than simply behave as if they do. So one is tempted to conclude that the only way an actual consciousness exist is as one's own consciousness, i.e. to be a solipsist. Which feels impossible to accept as well.

>> No.11203469

>>11203448
There's only so much I can say. If you don't see the weight of the following question:

"How can there be consciousnesses that are not my own?"

Then all I can say is try internalize more until it clicks.

>> No.11203497

>>11203469
just to be clear, I do see the weight of that question, and tried further explaining why it's so puzzling.

>> No.11203513

>>11203497
Oh my bad. I'm tired. I'll read your post again.

>> No.11203541

>>11202987
you shouldnt think of theories as objectively true anyway, you should think of them as humanity's best current model to understand the underlying phenomenon being examined. Being too black and white only leads to stagnation of progress

>> No.11203544

>>11203497
Well I re-read it. And in my opinion there really is no problem with solipsism. I don't WANT it to be true, but it's easy to understand and doesn't clash with anything in my opinion. If I am the only thing that exists, then okay. That means I'm god. If I am god, I must be dumbing myself down on purpose, which would lead to a separation problem, but I find that separation to be easier to grapple with than the separation of multiple first person experiencers just like myself but are not myself. That is the option which I ACTUALLY THINK is true but is impossible to make sense out of.

>> No.11203587

>>11203544
If I was the only seemingly conscious being I knew, I would dismiss the question whether objective reality is really out there as meaningless. In any case there would be a separation between my conscious volition and things that are outside my conscious control, and law-like patterns and regularities to what I observe. I wouldn't worry whether inanimate objects "really exist" when I'm not directly observing them - I would still use the idea as a way of making predictions of what I experience, since that clearly works.

But with the qualia of other human beings I find it hard to accept. Everything indicates that I'm not special. Everything indicates that I'm result from the same natural selection and material processes other people are. Every one else talks and acts like they were conscious as well. I experience the world as if only my consciousness was real, and I can't even make sense of the opposite idea, since I can't use it to describe what I experience nor predict what I will experience - but everything indicates me that somehow that must be true. It's like being constantly bombarded with extremely strong empirical evidence that 2+2=5.

Although it vaguely sounds like the answer might be something like that, the problem with the idea that there's only one subject with a "multiple personality disorder" (as you seem to believe) is that I feel like one can still ask the same questions.

>> No.11203633

>>11203341
The self does not exist. We do not exist at all. Open individualism and ego death. Nothing exists. Not existence or nonexistence exist.

>> No.11203641

>>11203633
"I" do not exist.

>> No.11203680

>>11202981
Consciousness does not exist.

>> No.11203686

>>11203680
absolutely based and sane
you don't belong here this is /x/ with a science theme

>> No.11203698
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11203698

Pansychism

>> No.11203708

>>11203698
>i swear im not a dualist guys!

>> No.11203748

open individualism is the answer

>> No.11203752

>>11203748
plus a form of idealism (but study open individualism first to understand the intuition behind it)

>> No.11203757

>>11203708
Panpsychism is meant to serve as a solution to the dualist thinking that has dominated Western thought (explicitly or implicitly) since Descartes.
https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/do-we-have-minds-of-our-own

>> No.11203762

>>11203757
you fucking dummy, panspychism is weak dualism and wrong
>>11203708
based, calling out the cope
>>11203748
this man has the answer

>> No.11203771

>>11203387
>how the fuck can the be separation of consciousness from other consciousness?
Different nervous systems and no reason for why there can't and shouldn't be more than one consciousness.

>> No.11203789

>>11203762
>panspychism is weak dualism
How about you read the article? It says it's the exact opposite of dualism. Which is true.

>> No.11203793

>>11203771
There is only one consciousness, the one that permeates the universe, and separation of consciousness is an illusion created by varying degrees of -awareness-

>> No.11203798

>>11203369
There is literally nothing in the observable universe that is interesting other than Earth.

>> No.11203817

>>11203793
Yes that's why there's people seeing and experiencing different stuff than you right now.

>> No.11203867

>>11203798
fucking hell, what a moron

>> No.11203868

>>11203793
No. There is no consciousness or one shared consciousness. Pick one.

>> No.11203891

>>11203341
negative IQ post

>> No.11204250
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11204250

>>11202981
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