Computer Science is a meme field

[Anonymous No.11189507]

Only useful things are cryptography, data structures and algorithms. Everything else is bound to be outdated within a few years.

And if you're in uni, you're much better studying math and minoring in CS while taking the very few useful CS classes (like data structures and algorithms)

[Anonymous No.11189515]

I'm doing a dual major (Math/CS). Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.11189517]

Y'all fight over majors like they are video game consoles.

[Anonymous No.11189526]

>CS is a meme field
it's usefull for getting normies to fund the continued development of AI and electrical engineering by buying phones and paying for software retard lmao

[Anonymous No.11189534]

>>11189507
CS is basically math++ and a CS major is considered élite, capable of mastering in 1 year what would take a math major 2. The world's élite universities (Oxford, Cambridge, Hull) will tell you that as a student you are the best group they have and math students go slower than you and increase your load to crazy levels.

As a CS student, you are expected to master (continuous) calculus, discrete calculus (discrete math proofs, hypercubes for parallel algorithms), optimization (machine/deep learning, compilers), category theory (functional programming), logic (up to automated proofs, i.e. including set theory), differential equations, topology (computational geometry, distributed algorithms), probability and statistics (reinforcement learning, queueing), number theory (cryptography), graph theory (almost everywhere)... There is no functional analysis needed yet, but it's heavily used for PhD degrees anyway. You need to know all this down to the level of proving theorems if you want to achieve anything in CS While pure math & physics progress slowed down, the advances in CS are fast and accelerating. CS is the major of future. Math jobs are shrinking; CS jobs will grow even more than today. The AI revolution is here, from Google search to Uber pool to auto correct to recommendation engines, mathematicians are being left in the dust by algorithms from the 90's and just sheer brute force

[Anonymous No.11189542]

>>11189534
>as a CS student, you are expected to master high school level math
ftfy

[Anonymous No.11189543]

>>11189507
Agreed. They suck at hard mathematics.

[Anonymous No.11189547]

>>11189507
>CS is going to be outdated
there are millions of new codemonkey jobs opening up due to the Asian and African markets catching up anon

[Anonymous No.11189557]

>>11189534
total nonsense

the average CS major doesn't even learn how to solve a simple differential equation

[Anonymous No.11189562]

>>11189515
you and everyone else

[Anonymous No.11189596]

>>11189547
you don't need a CS degree for codemonkey jobs

[Anonymous No.11189597]

>>11189517
Agreed, its childish.

[Anonymous No.11189646]

>>11189597
you're just saying that because you were too dumb to major in anything else other than CS

[Anonymous No.11189712]

Don't study CS. It's ridden with pajeets and trannies and new grad positions are hopelessly over-saturated.

[Anonymous No.11189734]

>>11189712
how do people even compete in today's markets?

[Anonymous No.11189890]

black pill for people that shit on cs

[Anonymous No.11189971]

>>11189507
is this your cope because you couldn't keep up anon? CDS gigachads win again

[Anonymous No.11189973]

>>11189734
because they are criminals aka teenagers

[Anonymous No.11189974]

>>11189542
>>11189557
cope

[Anonymous No.11190030]

>>11189507
I'd like to finish my BCs degree in CS and then make a Master degree in Math/cryptography, is it possibile?

[Anonymous No.11190051]

>>11189534
Bullshit. I had a friend I knew from primary school, he went to Imperial with me. He went to study Compsci and I studied chemistry. I went in with A level maths, he did not.

We would study together as we were good friends but the guy was constantly coming to me for help with his maths. Chemistry isnt even that hard (would rate 7.5/10), but compsci is far, far easier.

Of course he is earning mint now and Im a fucking grad student wagie so I guess, despite me being more academically gifted, he was the smart one all along.

[Anonymous No.11190210]

>>11189974
Lmao you're the one bragging about basic math, keep seething CS monkey

[Anonymous No.11190230]

Computer Science is literally the only hard science in existence.
>Homotopy Type Theory is revolutionizing mathematics as we speak
>Computation theory with the Church–Turing thesis gives valuable insight on the deepest intrinsic nature of both the Universe and consciousness
>Computational Complexity gave the first and so-far only rigorous definition of the word “difficulty”
>Machine Learning is giving the first and so far only rigorous definition for a shit-ton of informal terms such as “cat” in addition to giving morals an actual long-term use
>Game Theory revolutionized and still is very promising in both economics and social sciences
>Concurrency models literally everything in asynchronous environments including business, and already has a central role in decentralized protocols
>Numerical Analysis made all experimental sciences its bitch by literally solving the problem of approximate numerical calculations

In addition to being the pinnacle of pure sciences, Computer Science is an LEM (law, engineering, medicine) field, i.e. 15 billion times the IQ of STAM fields. Let me explain, because it’s a little too subtle for the brain of a STAMmer.
>intelligence is the ability to solve problems in a way that involves long-term planning
>with the exception of catching AIDS and Ebola, all real-life problems are easier to solve if you hold power
>because of that, thirst for power is above all a sign of intelligence
>LEM fields are the only ones giving secure access to money hence power compared to pathetic STAM fields
>therefore LEM field (which include Computer Science) lords of accomplishment are objectively smarter than STAM suicidelings

Imagine believing you’re superior to the guys who give you your minimum-wage job and get all the recognition when they stack 15 approximations on your worthless model to turn it into a functioning asset of a Fortune-500 company that makes ten times your net worth per minute.

[Anonymous No.11190403]

>>11190210
>Lmao you're the one bragging about basic math

That was my only post in this thread schizo. We can all see how well you can think logically making mistaken basic assumptions. Real impressive desu

[Anonymous No.11191248]

>>11189971
lmao nice try. I majored in electrical engineering. Every retard who couldn't handle EE switched to CS.

[Anonymous No.11191260]

>>11189507
the STEM virgin vs the CS chad

[Anonymous No.11191279]

>>11189534
You're full of shit, CS people do not learn all these. Most take the bare minimum math or only a few higher levels.
A math major takes long because they have to take far more intense classes.
Stop coping and accept that CS is for sperglords

[Anonymous No.11191308]

At my school all of the CS majors were pajeets and autistic white boys while all of the Comp Eng majors were white chads and chinks.

Is this common?

[Anonymous No.11191316]

>>11191308
Just came here to post something similar. If you're interested in only software, and not silicon/LCD/CRT/etc. it's likely you're a meme. Unless you're into compiler design

[Anonymous No.11191405]

Is there any use for PDEs and differential geometry in computer science?

[Anonymous No.11191407]

>>11191405
You could build some niche software. Probably lots of applications in computer engineering.

[Anonymous No.11191456]

>>11189507
ih you think your smart do you faggy man. well then why does a super hot laser produce a negative kelvin temperature but still melt steel?

you dont know do you. you just spit out answers others say but you dont know anything

[Anonymous No.11191491]

>>11189507
>Only useful things are cryptography, data structures and algorithms. Everything else is bound to be outdated within a few years.

can you provide evidence for this statement?

[Anonymous No.11192196]

>>11189507
Psychology and Sociology is a fucking meme

[Anonymous No.11192241]

>>11189507
>only useful things are cryptography, data structures and algorithms
you mean most of the practical side of theoretical CS? There's more than just "handy dandy structures." Even pushing complexity theory out of the picture, there's an abundance of interesting, mathematical CS theory out there. What's immediately useful is usually algorithms, but I'll be damned if you tell me TCS isn't "proper math." Despite it being a meme, ML and whatever you think CS is isn't actually what it is.
>>11189542
>>11189557
>>11190051
>>11191279
You're responding to a copypasta. These things are used in actual CS, not in software dev jobs that aren't restricted to crypto/HPC

[Anonymous No.11192254]

>>11189543
>>11191248
Literally everyone in undergrad sucks at mathematics. Everyone's a gangster until you ask them to prove some basic assertions foundational analysis and algebra, despite it being not too difficult. Now, there is a subset of people who are fine with this - they're usually the honors students in the CS and math tracks, and they usually double major in both
t. honors track math/CS double
>>11189557
differentials, at least how they're taught to engineering students and undergrads, are not "math." They are equation forms around a differential operator that you are taught to solve algorithmically, computationally, and to prod around with basic techniques. I've seen engineering students straight up fail basic shit in PDE's like pattern matching a Fourier series solution and massaging out the desired form with basic arithmetic. I've seen people literally fail to take the Laplace transform despite given tables. Do I think EE is *nominally* harder than CS? Yes, I think accreditation makes it harder to bullshit, especially at less than excellent schools. But I've seen way more math/CS students go ham in ways EE students generally cannot match. Obviously there are exceptions, but CS is just the name of a major - if you looked at the actual research activity that goes on in the field (ie anything in complexity) then it'd be obvious that CS researchers have more than enough mathematical capabilities

[Anonymous No.11192256]

>>11189890
PhD's are fine. Their snooty attitudes can be annoying at times, but I've never had a bad experience personally with PhD's working in research and R&D

[Anonymous No.11192260]

>>11190051
The requirements for a basic CS degree are laughably simple. The requirements for proper CS are as intense as any top STEM degree. CS academia is hard to get into for a reason. I don't know about your program, but at mine they let you go as hard as you wanted. So there's a big difference between people who take a software engineering class and internet/networking to get team experience, and those taking topics in complexity and algebraic geometry to be able to read Mulmuley's geometric complexity theory papers

[Anonymous No.11192267]

>>11191316
being interested in CS isn't being interested in software. I put those people into the code monkey camp. People interested in solving hard math problems that were inspired by computers in the late 70s are people in CS. Those problems tie back to the rest of technology and into math at large. So I agree with you in spirit, but I'd preface it with I think there are very few "true" CS majors. I have an interest when it comes to FPGA's, parallelization, and CPU design in my projects, but my true academic/professional interests are in complexity, topology, and analysis. So exactly how would this be a meme?

[Anonymous No.11192644]

>>11191248
computing engineering is better than electrical engineering.

[Anonymous No.11192660]

>>11190051
Hello fellow chem major. I know a lot of CS majors and let me tell you, it must be nice being able to copy/paste all of your work. I’d be jealous of them if I wanted had less self respect.

[Anonymous No.11192679]

>>11192644
computer engineering is for retards who can't handle tough EE classes like electromagnetism, control systems and communication signals

[Anonymous No.11192685]

>>11192679
CE is the same as EE but more complete and you get paid better, no one needs an electric engineer when you can hire a computer engineer since they can do more shit

[Anonymous No.11192702]

I'm doing an MS in CS studying cryptography and these threads always hurt my feelings. That is really all I have to say. I used to try to argue in these threads even though they are obvious trolls, but at this point I don't even feel the motivation to do that. These threads don't make me feel anything anymore but empty boredom.

[Anonymous No.11192707]

>>11192679
this is a cope. most of the EE students go into digital shit and would have benefited from taking more CE/CS classes instead of E&M

>>11192685
>>11192644
i don't think either is better, but saying CE is "more complete" is really only true for those that go into digital. if you went into power for example than EE would be better.

>>11192702
yeah i'm debating even clicking submit. crypto is cool but it would be frustrating to work on it knowing that even if you do great work most crypto issues are with implementation (human error), not faults with the actual algorithms

[Anonymous No.11192712]

You arent really doing CS until youve encountered:
- Polynomial time approximations
- Randomized algorithms
- Linear and semidefinite programming
- Constraint satisfaction
- Hypergraphs
- PCP Theorem
Everything else is just software development, data science/statistics, and computer engineering

[Anonymous No.11192716]

>>11189507
>Only useful things are cryptography, data structures and algorithms. Everything else is bound to be outdated within a few years.

That's like saying math from the 80s was shit, because slide rulers are an outdated technology.

Computer science is applied math. Programming languages are implements of the times.

[Anonymous No.11192802]

>>11192712
No CS major ever encounters that stuff at your typical American state university.

That is why CS majors are considered dumbfucks in the US.

[Anonymous No.11192803]

>>11189507
This meme is actually fucking annoying because I need to make a decision on what I'm doing with my life. No one seems to be proving anything.

[Anonymous No.11192808]

>He didn't do Info Sys to avoid all the math but get a STEM internship regardless
Quit looking at the degrees you're told about and look at what your preferred uni has to offer you fucking idiots.

[Anonymous No.11192991]

>>11192712
This is true
>>11192802
Not exactly true. While they’re in a minority, people still see this in undergrad fairly often when they seek it out. The problem is that most CS majors are not interested in learning true CS. The natural choice is to double major in math

[Anonymous No.11192997]

>>11192679
Regular EE’s suck at E&M. Most failed basic physics when I took it with them. Engineering students really are as bad at math and science as the memes make them out to be, so their “hard rigor” is in name alone - it’s all busy work to eventually just punch into matlab and your choice of modeling software. At least, that’s what the average engineering student banks on

[Anonymous No.11193008]

>>11189534
>Hull
Literally where

[Anonymous No.11193085]

>>11192660
>copy paste all your work
When will this meme die? In my project heavy classes, cheaters were failed pretty mercilessly since it’s fairly easy to use an automatic checker and then manually inspect code for signs of copying. Even then, classes like OS design change projects so much from year to year that I’m not sure how you’d cheat - it’s actually just easier to write the scheduler rather than Frankenstein someone else’s work into yours. Operating systems are such sensitive projects that I’m not sure if you can just copy and paste at all.

[Anonymous No.11193090]

>>11190051
People shouldn't be allowed into university without a level maths. I was so far ahead of my Canadian counterparts in mathematics it was laughable (Canadian expat)

[Anonymous No.11193094]

>>11190230
Based

[Anonymous No.11194393]

is CS/statistics a good double major?

[Anonymous No.11194400]

>>11189534
Modern CS majors have problems coding simple stuff, what crack are you on?

[Anonymous No.11194411]

>>11194393
Double majors are a meme

[Anonymous No.11194413]

>>11189507
>cryptography, data structures and algorithms
>literally useless things that exist only by convincing other idiots it actually produces any actual value
only an academic would think these were of any value

[Anonymous No.11194417]

I'm independently (no degree) studying operating systems, computer architecture and C++ language theory. Am I a brainlet?

[Anonymous No.11194489]

>>11194411
[math]\mathcal{Can\;you\;provide\;}\mathfrak{EVIDENCE\;}\mathcal{for\;this\;statement,\;}\mathbb{PLEASE\,?}[/math]

[Anonymous No.11194977]

>>11194417
I'm doing the same thing (except I have a shitty CS degree). What books are you studying from?

[Anonymous No.11194987]

>>11194411
Not really? People act like it's a lot more work than it is. Double majoring in math and CS, with a focus in TCS, has given me nothing but a "complete" degree. The most I had to do was one summer after freshman year doing classes, but I didn't get an internship until the next summer anyway.

[Anonymous No.11194993]

>>11194413
Academics and practitioners value these things for different reasons. This is most likely bait, but all three of these things have both a side of utility and a side of academic inspiration / motivation

[Anonymous No.11194997]

>>11194417
study general language theory, as it's more useful / important to understand language as a whole rather than features of any given language. Programming Language Fundamentals is a good intro book to language theory and compilers. The rabbit hole gets deeper the more math you know

[Anonymous No.11195019]

>>11189534

[Anonymous No.11195644]

Engineering is for people to stupid for maths and physics.

[Anonymous No.11195766]

>>11189507
>software engineer
>CS major

After all you said I'm still getting paid 3 times more than you OP.

[Anonymous No.11195797]

What does Computer Science mean in Burgerland? Where I live CS is called "Computer Engineering" or something like that. We have Mathematical Analysis 1-2, Algebra 1-2, Discrete Math 1-2, Probability Theory class, Physics 1-2, Algorithms class, Operating System and other classes I haven't done yet.
There is a different course here for people who want to become programmers, they don't study physics but they study more math and generally a lot more theories about programming.

Both of these are considered harder than most other fields in engineering, at least from what I've heard from many people, here mehatronics is the hardest and civil is the easiest.

[Anonymous No.11195803]

>>11189507
Yeah data structures

[Anonymous No.11195807]

>>11189557
No one is talking Abt average here.

[Anonymous No.11195931]

>>11195797
It’s a very loose term that people use commonly to refer to careers that pertain to software, despite the fact that its academic scene is very strong in the US in grad school. Here, analysis isn’t required nor is general abstract algebra (though I double major with math, so I took them anyway), but those requirements are partially fulfilled with calc 1-3 and linear algebra being required for admission into the major, with proof based linear being heavily recommended. Every other requirement at my school matches yours, and I’m sure we both have electives that aren’t listed.
In the US, my view is that a CS degree is as hard as you want to make it. It’s either a worthless degree duct-taped together by basic requirements and intro classes + “development team classes,” or it’s a degree you go ham on. This is why I think engineering is a *nominally* harder choice upfront, since you don’t have the choice to bullshit past good courses, but I don’t see engineering as significantly harder based on shared classes (I took control theory and fluids on special permission out of interest) and on swapping homework sets. For CS, there is the systems route with OS, embedded, learning on signals, distributed computing, etc, or theory with advanced algorithms, recursion theory and complexity, computational X (topology, geometry, pick your poison, etc), domain theory, etc etc, which is best paired with a double major in math, since it exposes you early to the maturity and mathematics needed to progress in the field.

[Anonymous No.11195954]

>>11195931
I should add - I think engineering homework sets are long and tedious, but I don’t see them as really too difficult. CS homework sets for theory and projects for OS gave me way more sleepless nights and headscratchers than the engineering ones since the homework sets in CS were focused on extending ideas from lectures in cool ways on proofs, while the engineering lectures were about looking at slides and the textbook in order to massage the correct forms out in an equation. This is to say nothing on my math problem sets vs engineering.
I’m sure engineering has its hard courses and good homework sets somewhere, but I always hear people complaining about engineering homework as a function of an irritating professor or how tedious yet involved in steps it is. If you guys define difficulty of slogging through basic differential forms, then I’d happily say there are way more difficult problems in other majors that are
1) enjoyable to solve
2) push creativity
I see creativity used in design aspects of engineering but not so much in their problem solving faculties, at least not in undergrad. So if a CS student sacrifices one class on differentials (easily self studied) for one on more proof and algorithms problems, I’d say that’s a positive trade off. After all, basic linear algebra isn’t required for ABET accreditation, which is why I see so many engineering majors fail at basic linear problems that aren’t plug’n’chug a determinant / matrix product, despite linear being perhaps their most applicable too.

[Anonymous No.11196333]

>>11189507
why do we have these threads all the time? Are they a tsundere version of "CS general thread" or they always made by some engineering student who needs to stroke their ego? Or is it made by CS majors who want to stir up shit?

[Anonymous No.11196479]

>>11189507
>And if you're in uni, you're much better studying math and minoring in CS while taking the very few useful CS classes (like data structures and algorithms)
This sounds good but it isn't actually true. Most math people I have met who say they can "program" are complete trash at it. CS isn't as hard as physics but it's a real field, and the people who say otherwise usually haven't done enough programming to know that. Yes, it is easy to read strings from a file in python. That doesn't mean it's easy to write an operating system.

[Anonymous No.11196563]

>>11196479
Programming and CS are two different things dude. What "CS" actually is (ie complexity, recursion theory, systems, etc) is in the same vein as math and physics, and is "just as hard" and buried under the similar qualifications. CS isn't reducible to "reading strings from a file" - that's shit you learn on your own to complete projects. Learning OS design starts from first principles and oftentimes when doing hard work, you need proofs of correctness that you actually solve the task at hand, such as in priority inversion or distributed computation

[Anonymous No.11197402]

>>11196479
>prongramming
>he calls this CS
Please don’t make me laugh

[Anonymous No.11197412]

>is in the same vein as math and physics, and is "just as hard"
It is not as hard as math or physics. Computer science and engineering is easy compared to math and physics, its just that engineers think their major is hard because of the workload, not because of the material you have to understand.
Anyway, computer science is total bullshit, it would completely stagnate if you couldnt get faster computers. Computer engineering and thus electrical engineering push the boundaries of CS.

[Anonymous No.11197416]

>>11189534
> AI revolution

NPC detected

[Anonymous No.11197429]

>>11189534
AI is a meme. People are going to be very disappointed when they learn that digital processing power is very limited and quantum computing wont be able to be used for what people imagine.

[Anonymous No.11197439]

>>11189517
that's all you can really do when you're a high school senior/college freshman

[Anonymous No.11197452]

>>11189534
The problem with OP and all the imbeciles here is that they compare CS undergraduates to math, psychics and engineering PhDs, since the former only require a BS to get a job

[Anonymous No.11197465]

>>11190230
Yeah Phds in CS do cool stuff. Undergrads not so much. You are better off doing a math or physics undergrad and then CS grad.

[Anonymous No.11197514]

>>11197412
Dude, you really don't know what computer science actually is. Again, look at complexity, look at algorithms, etc. None of these things are contingent on hardware to actually study, and the same goes for quantum complexity. The study of CS is its own thing, and while there are areas that are tied to CE and EE, you overstate their relevance in the subject. If you look up the thread, I say engineering can be nominally harder, but nontrivial CS (ie anything in grad) is ridiculously hard. It's why people like Avi Wigderson, much less some engineering students, can't even answer the deepest questions yet.
>Anyway, computer science is total bullshit, it would completely stagnate if you couldnt get faster computers
exactly what do you think computer science is?
>Computer engineering and thus electrical engineering push the boundaries of CS.
lmao what

Hardware is important in its own way, and solid state physics / EE has done a lot for tech, but that doesn't really hold relevance to what CS, as a study, actually is. Read something like Barak and Arora's textbook and tell me if "lol put a cache on it and do some circuit algebra tricks I learned from my first principles of EE class" will solve the problem ;^)

[Anonymous No.11197520]

>>11197452
>>11197465
CS undergrads en masse are pretty mediocre, though there are exceptions. I have no idea why people look at math, phys, eng PhD work and compare it to some lousy undergrad's work, when if you look at any complexity paper or even systems papers for distributed computation, it's abundantly clear CS PhD's are more than qualified
http://cs.brown.edu/courses/csci2951-s/Ch03.pdf

It is true that math undergrad > CS undergrad if you want a CS PhD. Personally, double majoring gives you the most exposure

[Anonymous No.11197866]

>>11197412
>math physics
Hm, maybe in undergr-
>engineering
Oh you’re trying to suck yourself off. I see

[Anonymous No.11197874]

Are you guys just sour grapes that software """engineers""" are getting 6 figures salaries out the door while you're toilering away at a lab, unemployed, or somewhere else?

[Anonymous No.11198046]

>>11197874
Money doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.11198063]

>>11198046
Not him, but money matters as much as it matters - that it, it’s important to have enough to live comfortably.
What I don’t understand is why this board shits on CS when what they seem to hate is incompetent software developers, they’re two different things

[Anonymous No.11198262]

>>11190230
>Machine Learning is giving the first and so far only rigorous definition for a shit-ton of informal terms such as “cat”
Based CS chads.

[Anonymous No.11198718]

>>11198262
Lol

[Anonymous No.11198720]

>>11197412
CE and EE are pretty brainlet. I’ve never seen a group of people so unable to do basic calculations that wasn’t spoon fed to them on a cheat sheet. Teaching in the EE department seems like a nightmare since students ask you to do all the intellectual heavy lifting for them...despite claiming their major is hard and they have to think hard. Taking RF with these mouthbreathers was embarrassing

[Anonymous No.11198726]

>>11198046
Well nothing matters so may as well live comfortably and make paylets like you serth

[Anonymous No.11199711]

>>11189534
This is bullshit you don't master any of the subjects you just mentioned. You might take the occasional intro class in no more than half of the subjects you mentioned. CS majors come out extremely desirable and then become obsolete. It is a known fact that people over 40 can't get programming or IT jobs, mainly because they are so over-dependent on technicalities rather than understanding the theory behind CS.

Case in point, you who thinks that AI and math are unrelated when in fact all machine learning is just applied math.

[Anonymous No.11199711,1]

You say Computer Science is for people too stupid for math, engineering, and real science. I say your mom is a whore.