>/sci/ anons claim to be smart >yet they can't even answer this simple question lmaoing at all of you t. /x/

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Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:39:04 2019 No.11141462 [DELETED]

>/sci/ anons claim to be smart
>yet they can't even answer this simple question
lmaoing at all of you
t. /x/

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:45:35 2019 No.11141472 >>11141462 >lift is caused by difference and air travel over the wings >No air travel over the wings, no liftoff >airplanes don't spontaneously lift off the ground while chilling at the terminal

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:49:20 2019 No.11141478

>>11141462
>the conveyor belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels
So the wheels are spinning twice as fast as they normally would on takeoff. Not really a problem since they take much more force upon landing and decelerating. Slightly more backwards force on the plane you would have to know the friction force on the wheel bearings to calculate the additional length of runway you would need in this scenario.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:49:41 2019 No.11141481 >>11141462 The landing gear aren't powered, anon. Think of a big hand pushing the plane in lieu of the turbines. In other words it's going to move forward and fall off the conveyor.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:50:19 2019 No.11141482 >>11141472 The thrust from the turbojets imparts a net force on the plane toward the left hand side of the pic. So the plane gets air over its wings and thus lift.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:52:48 2019 No.11141487 Of course it will take off. What kind of brainlets is this board filled with?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:53:02 2019 No.11141488 File: 42 KB, 640x462, comforting lies.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >see OP >about to post no one on /sci/ is stupid enough to not understand this >see >>11141472 Well that sure showed me.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:57:30 2019 No.11141500

>>11141478
>So the wheels are spinning twice as fast as they normally would on takeoff.

I mean. Not really. The velocity at the top of the wheel is 2v (v = ground speed), but at the axle its exactly v. Interpret the problem how you will, but the only thing that matters is if the plane is moving or not.

If its not moving, it cannot take off unless someone sticks a big fan in front of it and sends the appropriate amount of air over the wings.

It doesnt matter if it has wheels or not. You can remove the wheels and it would still take off if enough air goes over the wings, like those gifs of paper airplanes standing still while a fan creates lift.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:59:31 2019 No.11141504 >>11141500 >I mean. Not really. No, they literally are. Draw an FBD and find out for yourself.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 22:59:32 2019 No.11141503

>>11141482
>The thrust from the turbojets imparts a net force on the plane toward the left hand side of the pic.

Which is cancelled by the conveyor belt, which exactly matches the airplane speed, which cancel the movement of the plane relative to the air.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:00:33 2019 No.11141509 >>11141503 Good think the belt imparts no horizontal force on the airplane. Good thing the resultant force on the plane is a net force in the left direction, accelerating it to the left.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:01:06 2019 No.11141511 >>11141500 You do know that the axle of the wheel is the part that spins the slowest right?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:02:20 2019 No.11141515 A trick question. The plane is a Boeing 737 Max so it's not allowed to take off.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:03:27 2019 No.11141517 >>11141503 That guy is right dummy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:06:10 2019 No.11141524 We did this before. I said some shit about a motorcycle on the road with its sidecar on a conveyor belt. It doesn't make much difference. t. Aircraft mechanic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:07:46 2019 No.11141530 >>11141511 >So? There is no information that says we can't take the axle to represent the wheel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:09:53 2019 No.11141534 >11141524 what happens anon? serious inquisition.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:11:10 2019 No.11141538

>>11141472
>>11141488
>>11141503
>>11141504
It's the engines pushing the plane forward, the conveyor belt pushes the plane with force that is completely insignificant, so the plane lifts of completely normally assuming the wheels won't break because of spinning twice as fast.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:11:37 2019 No.11141541 >>11141530 Are you aware of how friction forces work?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:11:55 2019 No.11141543 >>11141534 Plane takes off. What confuses people is an additional piece of irrelevant information.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:12:19 2019 No.11141545

>>11141462
The plane will take off, but if I'm interpreting this right, the gear wheels are going to be on fucking fire by the time it gets in the air. The conveyor can't stop the plane moving via friction in the wheels, but it sure will try.
In the end, the thrust is all against the air, which the conveyor isn't directly controlling. It might actually help out by dragging air towards the plane, giving a little headwind.
Aircraft don't care about groundspeed unless they're landing or checking how long the flight will take to reach a destination. All the aerodynamic are, obviously, air related.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:13:31 2019 No.11141550 >>11141503 Jet engines push against the air, not the ground.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:16:57 2019 No.11141556 >>11141462 >does enough air move over the wings? >The airplane takes off The end, fuck everything else

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:19:43 2019 No.11141566 >>11141462 anyone who says it does should probably not be allowed to post on this board. even if trolling.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:19:52 2019 No.11141567 >>11141556 Why would air be moving over the wings if it isn’t moving?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:20:25 2019 No.11141572 Assuming the conveyor perfectly matches the airplanes velocity at all times it will not take off, this is an extremely simple problem. You will never move so there'll never be a pressure differential across the airfoil and no lift will be generated.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:21:42 2019 No.11141576 >>11141567 Of course the air is moving, tell us why it wouldn't, you dumb fuck.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:22:57 2019 No.11141584 >>11141572 did you read>>11141550 ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:26:46 2019 No.11141591 >>11141567 Good thing the wing is moving

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:27:51 2019 No.11141595

>>11141576
The plane is stationary at all times and the air is not moving relative to it. The conveyor belt is at all times moving at the equal and opposite velocity to the plane so the net movement is zero which accounts for the thrust of the turbo fans. Since there is no fluid flow over the airfoils there is no lift.

>>11141584
Have you ever even looked at a plane? Turbo fans do not blow air over the airfoils, they're only there to provide thrust.

>>11141591
The wing is not moving. It is stationary.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:28:05 2019 No.11141596

>>11141567
>>11141572
The plane still moves forward. No matter how much that conveyor pulls backwards, the wheel friction won't overpower the engines thrusting against the AIR. Unless brakes are applied, the wheels will just spin faster while the plane moves forward normally. Stop thinking of the wheels like they do anything except support the plane while it's on the ground, and slow it down when the brakes are on. They do nothing to propel it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:28:32 2019 No.11141597 >>11141595 >The wing is not moving. It is stationary How can it possibly stationary if there is a net force causing it to accelerate to the left.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:29:09 2019 No.11141599

>>11141576
Prop planes might drive enough air over the wings to provide the required lift but most jet planes have the engines situated underneath the wings and they are not pushing air over the wings. It is the speed of the craft that allows the air to flow over the wings and provide lift, not the backwash of the engines acting directly on the wings.

Retard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:29:35 2019 No.11141601 >>11141481 What does power to the landing gear have to do with anything? If the conveyor belt is moving as fast as the wheels then the plane is not moving with respect to the air. Whatever is causing this doesn't matter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:30:12 2019 No.11141602 >>11141597 >to the left lol learn 2 3D XDXD

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:31:05 2019 No.11141603 >>11141462 The plane mostly only cares about airspeed. It might bounce around but will not take off.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:32:02 2019 No.11141605

>>11141595
>Turbo fans do not blow air over the airfoils, they're only there to provide thrust.
You're so close. Now consider this:
There's a cable attached to the front of the plane, anchoring it to a strong post at the end of the conveyor. You turn the conveyor on, trying to pull the plane backwards. How much force is exerted on the cable?

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:32:24 2019 No.11141607

>>11141597
Did you actually read the problem? The conveyor belt is at all time moving at an equal and opposite velocity to the wheels, meaning for any acceleration of the plane theres an equal and opposite acceleration to the conveyor belt. The net velocity is always zero.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:32:28 2019 No.11141608 >>11141601 >If the conveyor belt is moving as fast as the wheels then the plane is not moving with respect to the air. But that's wrong because the wheels are not driving the plane.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:33:08 2019 No.11141610 >>11141607 >meaning for any acceleration of the plane theres an equal and opposite acceleration to the conveyor belt That isn't how conveyor belts or wheels work. Draw a free body diagram.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:34:08 2019 No.11141614 >>11141607 >The net velocity is always zero. No, the wheels just spin twice as fast as they normally would.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:35:53 2019 No.11141617

>>11141614
>twice as fast
Why are you guys stuck on this? The conveyor is set to match the speed of the wheels whatever they may be. The wheels could end up spinning three, four times as fast as they should or they might simply break under the pressure. Please tell me where this "twice as fast" comes from because I don't get it

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:37:41 2019 No.11141625

>>11141614
this would result in the conveyor belt spinning twice as fast as well. in order to keep moving left the wheels would have to spin more than twice as fast and then the conveyor belt would match that as well. it will always match what the wheels are doing, learn to read.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:38:21 2019 No.11141628

>>11141509
If that's true then the conveyor belt is not traveling to match the wheels and the conditions of the question are broken. So either the question is nonsense or the conveyor belt is designed to force the plane to stay still relative to the air.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:41:08 2019 No.11141635 >>11141462 >>11141472 >>11141482 >>11141503 >>11141509 >>11141628 >/sci/ >mechanical engineering shitposting

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:41:25 2019 No.11141636 [DELETED]

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Anybody who says it doesn't take off is most likely trolling.
>>11141617
>The conveyor is set to match the speed of the wheels whatever they may be
That doesn't make any sense. If you like, we can eliminate the wheels altogether and just picture the plane as a frictionless block of ice on the conveyor. No matter how fast the conveyor speeds--it can be wound up to 8 times the take-off speed if you like--there is STILL a net force propelling the plane to the left of the pic. Since the plane had motion, there must be air of the wings and therefore lift.
Draw a FUCKING free body diagram.

>why am I falling for b8

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:43:08 2019 No.11141643
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Anybody who says it doesn't take off is most likely trolling.
>>11141617
>The conveyor is set to match the speed of the wheels whatever they may be
That doesn't make any sense. If you like, we can eliminate the wheels altogether and just picture the plane as a frictionless block of ice on the conveyor. No matter how fast the conveyor speeds--it can be wound up to 8 times the take-off speed if you like--there is STILL a net force propelling the plane to the left of the pic. Since the plane has motion, there must be air over the wings and therefore lift.
Draw a FUCKING free body diagram.

>why am I falling for b8

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:43:16 2019 No.11141646

>>11141607
Answer this >>11141605

>>11141617
It depends on your interpretation. Mine was that the conveyor would spin as fast as possible to keep the plane from moving. Still, I wager the engines will overcome it, as the wheel friction is very low. You'll probably cook the rubber and bearings pretty hard though. Assuming an ideal system, where the conveyor can move at c and the wheels have zero bearing friction, the wheels will end up spinning at c and the plane will still take off, as the wheel spin imparts no force on the craft through zero friction bearings.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:43:42 2019 No.11141648

You can simplify this problem into: Imagine you're on a moving walkway at an airport that's moving in the opposite direction to you. If you walk in the exact velocity opposite to that of the moving walkway, do you move relative to the airport itself?

It's as simple as that and if you cant see it you shouldn't be on this board.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:44:01 2019 No.11141649 >>11141636 what upwards force causes the plane to liftoff if fit doesnt physically change position from the standpoint of the ground?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:44:03 2019 No.11141650 >>11141636 >>11141643 Based furfag truth doubleposter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:45:20 2019 No.11141655 >>11141648 >he thinks his kinematics scenario has anything to to with the dynamics problem in the OP

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:47:06 2019 No.11141661 >>11141648 Not analogous at all as your locomotion is related to your leg movement. An airplane without the brake on doesn't care about what the wheels are doing. To understand this, answer >>11141605 and I'll guide you through it from there.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:48:43 2019 No.11141663 >>11141649 but it does have velocity relative to the ground. there is a net force on it, therefore it is accelerating.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:49:04 2019 No.11141666

>>11141472
>>airplanes don't spontaneously lift off the ground while chilling at the terminal

Yeah they do, this is why you need to move planes in out of the wind when huge storms come, the wind flowing over the wing can create lift and the plane just takes off.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:49:43 2019 No.11141667 File: 134 KB, 600x600, Conveyor Belt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141462

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:49:54 2019 No.11141668

>>11141595
>>11141601
>>11141607
>>11141617
>>11141625
>>11141628

The plane isn't stationary, it's the jet engines pushing it forward, the wheels only support the plane while on the ground. The conveyor belt has no effect to how the jet engines push the plane forward.
>>11141599
See the above answer. What the fuck you are even talking about?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:50:31 2019 No.11141670 >>11141667 Is the speed of the conveyor fixed?

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:50:54 2019 No.11141672

>>11141663
what velocity relative to the ground if it is on a treadmill that constantly matches its speed? what is your velocity on a treadmill?
the net force is canceled out by the wheels spinning on the treadmill. airplane engines only provide force forwards, if that force is canceled out, no net air flux passes over the wings, and no lift is generated.
troll line?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:51:19 2019 No.11141674 >>11141667 based. Brainlet takeoffanons seething

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:51:41 2019 No.11141676 >>11141667 THIS. When you run on a treadmill there is NO wind over you because you are not moving relative to the air around you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:51:44 2019 No.11141677 >>11141668 If the conveyor belt wasnt matching the velocity of the wheels at all times this would be the case but you're wrong. >>11141670 The problem states the conveyor is always moving at the same velocity as the wheels.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:51:57 2019 No.11141679 >>11141667 So it's a regular ass conveyor. Its speed doesn't matter whatsoever. Read the entirety of >>11141643

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:52:15 2019 No.11141680

>>11141668
>The plane isn't stationary, it's the jet engines pushing it forward, the wheels only support the plane while on the ground.
If the plane is not stationary then the conveyor belt is not matching the speed of the wheels. But the conveyor belt is designed to match the speed of the wheels. Ipso facto, the conveyor belt is designed to keep the plane stationary.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:52:21 2019 No.11141682 >>11141670 IT MOVES AS FAST AS THE WHEELS ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED READ THE DAMN TEXT IN THE IMAGE BRAINLET

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:53:06 2019 No.11141683 Boy I love it when I run my scooter I attached naca 2412 airfoils to on the treadmill and just take fight off into the ceiling!

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:53:15 2019 No.11141684 >>11141672 Seems like you're the troll if you won't answer: >>11141605

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:53:26 2019 No.11141686 >>11141643 >If you like, we can eliminate the wheels altogether and just picture the plane as a frictionless block of ice on the conveyor. um no sweetie that's not what the question says you can't just change things try again honey

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:53:35 2019 No.11141687 >>11141670 It doesn't have to be, nor does it matter. The plane can't move by the design of the conveyor belt.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:54:40 2019 No.11141691

>>11141643
>>11141655
>>11141668
>>11141679
you guys are not respecting the phrasing of the riddle and the fact that gravity pushes the plane down and creates friction with the conveyor. yes, the movement of the conveyor belt absolutely matters. the thrust WOULD move the plane "left" and an equal force from the conveyor belt WOULD move it to the "right" at the same pace. result: it doesn't move. it's set up this way even if real engineers couldn't build such a magical conveyor belt.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:55:09 2019 No.11141694

>>11141679
>So it's a regular ass conveyor
A regular ass conveyor does not prevent things from accelerating on it.

>Read the entirety of >>11141643
This says the question doesn't make sense. I gave you an example of how it can make sense, by physically blocking the plane from moving.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:55:45 2019 No.11141695

>>11141684
the force exerted on the cable doesnt matter one bit. what matters if whether or not the plane is moving relative to the air around it. if it is not moving at a high enough velocity relative to that air, it wont take off. want me to draw another line?

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:56:19 2019 No.11141698

>>11141684
Your problem isnt being responded to because its fundamentally flawed and irrelevant. The original problem states the conveyor always moves at the equal and opposite velocity to the planes wheels, since the plane doesnt move relative to the post theres no tension in it. You're braindead

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:56:39 2019 No.11141700

>>11141677
>The problem states the conveyor is always moving at the same velocity as the wheels.
What the fuck does that even mean. If it means the conveyor matches the speed of the wheels relative to the ground, then the wheels will just spin twice as fast and the plane takes off. If it means relative to each other, then the system has positive feedback and something will fail very quickly, probably the conveyor. Aircraft wheels are fucking stout.

Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:57:42 2019 No.11141706

>>11141672
>what velocity relative to the ground if it is on a treadmill that constantly matches its speed? what is your velocity on a treadmill?
Let the positive x direction be the left hand side of the image in the OP.
[eqn]\sum_{\text{x dir}}F=F_{thrust}-F_{bearings}=m\dot{v}[/eqn]
Since the force on the bearings is very small and since the thrust is constant,
[eqn]v=\frac{1}{m}\int_{0}^{t}F_{thrust}\ \text{d}t=\frac{Ft}{m}[/eqn]

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:57:46 2019 No.11141707 File: 1.31 MB, 658x980, RollRoll12.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141643 >Draw a FUCKING free body diagram. I can not draw worth shit, but this body seems free.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 12 23:58:52 2019 No.11141710 >>11141694 >A regular ass conveyor does not prevent things from accelerating on it. by what magical mechanism does this conveyor prevent wheels from rolling on it

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:00:50 2019 No.11141714

>>11141700
The problem literally states they're always velocity matching in opposite directions. It's not saying that the plane is at some initial velocity and that's what the conveyor is set to, its saying that the conveyor is always the same and opposite velocity to the plane. If the planes wheels would be moving the plane at 1500 m/s then the velocity of the conveyor is -1500 m/s, if its 2000 m/s then the conveyor is -2000 m/s.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:01:36 2019 No.11141716
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>>11141695
>>11141698
It matters a lot, because if you though for one second you'd realize the conveyor can't pull backwards on the plane more than the engines can thrust forward. A 747-8 has 300 kN of thrust. If you're going to go full retard and call infinitely fast conveyor, I'm going to say the wheels are frictionless and pic related doesn't even matter anymore, so there's actually zero reverse thrust instead of just a little bit compared to engine power.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:02:53 2019 No.11141719 >this thread again

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:03:18 2019 No.11141721

>>11141716
>If you're going to go full retard and call infinitely fast conveyor
That's literally what the problem states. You're such a fucking mongoloid. It is not a physical system. We are working within the boundaries of the problem that were clearly defined.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:03:21 2019 No.11141722

>>11141710
>by what magical mechanism does this conveyor prevent wheels from rolling on it
It doesn't. Are you sure you understand what's being discussed?

Imagine a big wheel on a treadmill. Now attach rockets to the axle of the wheel. If it accelerates and moves forward on the treadmill then the wheel will be spinning faster than the treadmill. Now add cables to the rockets attaching them to the treadmill base. It will no longer move forward and the wheel will always be spinning at the same speed as the treadmill.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:04:14 2019 No.11141725

>>11141684
>>11141605
there's no cable, stop trying to change the problem into something else.

>>11141716
>If you're going to go full retard and call infinitely fast conveyor
the phrasing of the problem necessarily means this, yes.

>I'm going to say the wheels are frictionless
no, stop changing the problem to match your desired conclusion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:04:43 2019 No.11141728 >>11141716 See >>11141667

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:04:51 2019 No.11141729 >>11141722 So you are claiming there is an invisible, magical force that glues the wheel to the conveyor. Got it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:05:18 2019 No.11141730 >>11141722 >Now add cables to the rockets attaching them to the treadmill base. no. don't. you're doing the same thing they are doing, you're changing the problem and it isn't helping.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:05:50 2019 No.11141733 File: 21 KB, 300x225, car_on_dyno.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Yeah sometimes we attach airfoils to these babies and get the wheels spinning real fast and it takes right off!

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:06:05 2019 No.11141734

>>11141716
I get your point, but i am still convinced that is due to the ambiguity of the problem. In my head the treadmill immediately matches the speed that the wheels, which in this case are not frictionless but always make perfect contact with the treadmill until point of "liftoff" (vertical force).
I still think the problem is just worded wrong, like of course the force of an engine will outweigh what frictional forces of wheels on a runway treadmill

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:06:25 2019 No.11141735 >>11141462 This shit again? You must be Underage B& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YORCk1BN7QY /subject /thread LURK MOAR OP

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:06:38 2019 No.11141736

>>11141729
>So you are claiming there is an invisible, magical force that glues the wheel to the conveyor.
No, you're a moron. The wheels are free to spin. The conveyor belt must be designed to keep the object as whole from moving forward. This can easily be done by putting a wall in front of the plane or holding it back with cables, for example.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:07:04 2019 No.11141740 >>11141733 Airplanes do not apply torque to their wheels.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:07:40 2019 No.11141742 >>11141735 Violates the condition of the problem. The conveyor belt is not designed properly. See >>11141667

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:08:45 2019 No.11141746 >>11141736 And yet there are no cables or glass or wall in the question. >the conveyor moves at the same speed as the wheels This ultimately implies the conveyor goes infinitely fast. Absurd. Only autistic people interpret the problem this way.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:11:31 2019 No.11141751 >>11141746 >And yet there are no cables or glass or wall in the question. And? The question doesn't even say the plane's engines are turned on, so by your logic the answer is trivially no.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:12:02 2019 No.11141754 >>11141742 So the conveyor must accelerate infinitely?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:12:18 2019 No.11141755 >>11141740 irrelevant

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:12:37 2019 No.11141756

>>11141742
Your MOM is not designed properly, which is why she likes it in the ass so much.

>airplane landing wheels are FREEWHEELS, they are not geared to anything, but larger planes have BRAKES
>thrust to move the aircraft comes from moving AIR aft of the plane by propeller(s) or jet engine(s)
>treadmill only touches the WHEELS not any other part of the aircraft
>apply thrust, plane moves, regardless of anything the treadmill does
>Mythbusters experiment is 100% valid
>You're a fag, STFU
/subject
/thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:12:39 2019 No.11141757 >>11141735 The plane should have stayed in the same position if the wheels were moving at the same speed as the conveyor belt.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:12:47 2019 No.11141758 >>11141746 >This ultimately implies the conveyor goes infinitely fast. Nope. The conveyor belt goes the same speed as the wheels. Which is the velocity of the plane in the opposite direction.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:13:20 2019 No.11141759 >>11141754 yes, and the plane must be jet powered not prop powered

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:14:34 2019 No.11141763

>>11141755
Not irrelevant at all quit being a dumb faggot

>>11141758
Nope. 100% incorrect.

>>11141759
Is this babby time on /sci/? Does anyone actually fall for this nonsense?
You gonna tell us Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are real, too?

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:14:48 2019 No.11141765

>>11141714
That's fine. The plane still takes off, and the wheels will spin at twice their normal speed.

>>11141721
>>11141725
>>11141728
Ideal conveyor, ideal plane. The question is purposefully worded to make retards like you twist into pretzels by being ambiguous. The better interpretation is the other poster I replied to, where the speed of the center of the wheel relative to the ground is the speed the conveyor moves at. If you're saying the conveyor is doing whatever is necessary to make you right somehow after getting btfo for 92 posts, well you might be narcissists. If you absolutely insist that it's a real 747 on a real infinity conveyor, then the second you flip the switch there'll be a massive explosion, as the unstable feedback amplifies thermal movement in the wheels into an enormous release of energy. This is fucking pathological.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:14:52 2019 No.11141767

>>11141746
>This ultimately implies the conveyor goes infinitely fast.
No it doesn't. The wheels of a plane are not powered, they are free spinning. So the only thing determining the speed of the wheels when the plane is not accelerating is the speed of the treadmill. So the treadmill can be going at whatever speed you wish and the conditions of the problem hold. Nothing implies it has to get faster and faster.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:15:18 2019 No.11141769 >>11141763 Error 404 no arguments detected

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:15:22 2019 No.11141770 >>11141763 >Nope. 100% incorrect. The wheels are attached to the plane are they not?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:16:44 2019 No.11141772 >>11141767 This, the wheels will go as fast as the treadmill and ultimately this is decided by the thrust of the engines trying to push the plane forward.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:16:53 2019 No.11141773 >>11141765 Lol you're so fucking dumb its unreal

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:17:07 2019 No.11141774 >>11141769 Plane moves and takes to the air no matter what Troll Science you attempt to apply. YOU HAVE TO GO BACK: >>>/b/ Content yourself with your tranny porn and leave /sci/ to the three-digit IQ people, mmkay?

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:17:10 2019 No.11141775

>>11141754
No, see >>11141767

>>11141756
>apply thrust, plane moves, regardless of anything the treadmill does
Then the treadmill is not moving to match the wheels. The treadmill must be designed to stop the plane from moving. See >>11141667

The mythbusters experiment is invalid since it doesn't replicate the conditions of the problem being discussed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:17:10 2019 No.11141776 >>11141767 How can the treadmill determine the speed of the plane if it exerts no horizontal force? I'm legitimately unsure if you are a troll or dumb.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:17:41 2019 No.11141778 >>11141735 the wheels are clearly moving faster than the "belt". mythbusters did the same as most ITT, they changed the problem. >>11141746 >>11141754 the thrust the plane offers is finite so where are you getting infinity from?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:18:21 2019 No.11141782 >>11141770 >>11141775 See: >>11141756 /subject /thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:19:02 2019 No.11141785 >>11141776 imagine a plane on a conveyor belt and the plane does nothing. the conveyor belt starts moving. does the plane stay still? no, it moves with the conveyor, albeit not at full speed.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:20:13 2019 No.11141790

>>11141775
>The treadmill must be designed to stop the plane from moving.
That's not what the problem says. If the plane is moving at 100mph the wheels which are attached to the plane are moving at 100 mph so the treadmill is moving at 100 mph in the other direction.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:20:17 2019 No.11141791

>>11141778
>the wheels are clearly moving faster than the "belt"
..because the engine moving the air aft of the fusilage moves the plane forward until there is enough lift to leave the ground.
Do you really think you're going to confuse anyone with at least an IQ of 120 with this?
Really, Anon, you're embarassing yourself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:20:21 2019 No.11141792 >>11141785 >does the plane stay still? In the ideal scenario where bearing friction is negligible (which it absolutely is in comparison to the thrust from the turbojets), "YES"

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:21:28 2019 No.11141795

>>11141765
>Ideal conveyor, ideal plane. The question is purposefully worded to make retards like you twist into pretzels by being ambiguous.
There's nothing ambiguous about it. The wheels are free-spinning so they move at the same speed as the treadmill as long as the plane is stationary. Therefore the design of the treadmill keeps the plane stationary. It's simple logic.

>If you absolutely insist that it's a real 747 on a real infinity conveyor, then the second you flip the switch there'll be a massive explosion, as the unstable feedback amplifies thermal movement in the wheels into an enormous release of energy.
There is no feedback loop. The plane's thrust is countered by a force provided by the treadmill, by the design of the treadmill. This can easily be done realistically simply by putting a barrier in front of the plane.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:21:31 2019 No.11141797 >>11141790 >If the plane is moving at 100mph then there is lift and it takes off lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:22:33 2019 No.11141800 >>11141795 Your knowledge of elementary physics is as simple as your logic. >The plane's thrust is countered by a force provided by the treadmill what fucking force?

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:23:03 2019 No.11141801
File: 135 KB, 600x600, Conveyor Belt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11141776
>How can the treadmill determine the speed of the plane if it exerts no horizontal force?
Who says it exerts no horizontal force? It must by virtue of the condition that it always matched the speed of the wheels. I'm not trolling. Just look at the picture.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:23:07 2019 No.11141802 >>11141797 >All planes take off at 100mph OK retard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:23:21 2019 No.11141803 >>11141797 >what are frames of reference Uh oh time to go back to middleschool!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:23:52 2019 No.11141806 >>11141791 the conditions of the problem are violated the moment the belt fails to keep up. the belt by definition keeps up.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:24:05 2019 No.11141807 >>11141782 See my reply: >>11141775

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:24:10 2019 No.11141808 >>11141801 Doesn't that image imply the conveyor belt never moves at all?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:24:17 2019 No.11141809 >>11141802 You're right, many take off at slower speeds

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:24:59 2019 No.11141813 File: 80 KB, 916x1024, b6b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141774 Pathetic. You are the one who should click that link to /b/. And rest assured I shall jerk my meat to tranny porn as a celebration of my victory here tonight

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:25:19 2019 No.11141815 >>11141801 >It must by virtue of the condition that it always matched the speed of the wheels non sequitur >what are frames of reference Okay, so the plane's speed is 100 mph in what coordinate system? >implying you have taken freshman physics

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:25:31 2019 No.11141816

>>11141790
>That's not what the problem says.
It's necessitated by what the problem says.

>If the plane is moving at 100mph
Then the wheels are moving faster than the conveyor belt. The conveyor belt is designed to prevent this from happening, to prevent the plane from moving at all. If you can't think of how it could do this then you lack imagination.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:25:33 2019 No.11141817 >>11141806 >the conditions of the problem are violated the moment the belt fails to keep up Keep up with WHAT, precisely? Explain, I'm confused.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:25:41 2019 No.11141819 >>11141809 And a 747 takes off at around 170 mph.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:26:21 2019 No.11141823 >>11141817 The. Speed. Of. The. Wheels.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:26:34 2019 No.11141824 >>11141807 See my reply: >>11141756 >>11141813 Not an argument

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:27:02 2019 No.11141826 >>11141800 It doesn't matter, but it's easy to create such a force. See >>11141801

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:27:25 2019 No.11141827 >It's necessitated by what the problem says. I mean only if you don't know what the word speed means. >Then the wheels are moving faster than the conveyor belt. What if the conveyor belt is also moving at 100 mph?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:27:38 2019 No.11141829 >>11141823 Well, what is the """speed of the wheels""" having to keep up with, precisely? I don't understand, Anon.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:28:05 2019 No.11141832

>>11141792
>bearing friction is negligible
no, it is not.
>it absolutely is in comparison to the thrust from the turbojets
the turbojets aren't even running yet. we're just moving the conveyor a little to test if it has any effect on the plane, and it obviously does because friction does exist.

>>11141801
yes, you are trolling. if the plane were physically restricted in some manner that would be vital information to include when phrasing the problem. therefore the plane is not restricted.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:28:39 2019 No.11141834 File: 7 KB, 286x290, c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Which glass has more water in it? If you can answer this question correctly, then you can answer the plane/treadmill question correctly.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:29:32 2019 No.11141835

>>11141808
No, the conveyor belt can move at whatever speed it wants and the wheels will match it.

>non sequitur
How?

>Okay, so the plane's speed is 100 mph in what coordinate system?
Hmm? I didn't say the plane was moving at 100 mph, someone else did. It doesn't matter from which reference frame, either it violates the condition of the problem or it doesn't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:30:00 2019 No.11141838 >>11141462 >>11141462 yes

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:30:38 2019 No.11141842
File: 2.67 MB, 4032x3024, 20191026_095252.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11141815
The plane is moving 100mph in the frame of reference of a point in the conveyor belt. Just as the floor of the conveyor belt is moving at 100 mph from the frame of reference of the plane. However the plane is moving 0 mph relative to the air so it doesnt lift off. Also sweetie I'm literally an aerospace engineer so dont try to call me uneducated

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:30:48 2019 No.11141843 >>11141824 >See my reply: >>11141756 That's not a reply to my post.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:30:55 2019 No.11141844 >>11141835 I want you to draw a free body diagram of all the forces on the aircraft. This is a very, very simple exercise. It should take you like 15 seconds in paint.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:30:57 2019 No.11141845 >>11141835 >No, the conveyor belt can move at whatever speed it wants and the wheels will match it. But in that image the wheels aren't moving at all.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:31:59 2019 No.11141848 >>11141842 So draw a FBD. Should be extremely simple for you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:32:38 2019 No.11141850 >>11141808 Yep. The plane takes off because it doesn't care about impossible cartoon physics and you can't put the cart before the horse.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:32:46 2019 No.11141851 >>11141842 >Also sweetie I'm literally an aerospace engineer so dont try to call me uneducated Draw a free body diagram or I will find out the college you graduated from and make them revoke your degree.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:33:29 2019 No.11141857

=--=-=-=-=-=--=-=
CONSIDER THIS:
=--=-=-=-=-=--=-=

If a treadmill moving in the opposite direction can prevent an airplane from taking off..

..then that means if you run the treadmill in the FORWARD direction, you could ADD that to the velocity of the plane.

..which means you'd save SHITLOADS of fuel.

If this is true, then why aren't airports all built with treadmills on all the runways to make all the planes go faster? We'd have supersonic transports with propeller-driven planes and pay pennies to ride in them.

Does this make any sense? If it doesn't then that tells you all you need to know.

To summarize:
>If it can STOP the plane from taking off, then the opposite direction should make the plane go FASTER

Make anyone else's head hurt? It should, extreme bullshit will do that to you.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:33:56 2019 No.11141860

>>11141835
Meant to reply to >>11141815

>>11141827
>I mean only if you don't know what the word speed means.
How so?

>What if the conveyor belt is also moving at 100 mph?
So you mean the plane is moving at 100mph relative to a point on the conveyor belt and not the air? It doesn't matter. If the plane is moving with respect to the air then the conveyor belt is not matching the wheels. Thus the plane cannot move with respect to the air by the design of the treadmill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:34:58 2019 No.11141863 >>11141843 >That's not a reply to my post. Well, then, see my other reply: >>11141756 ******************** I'm still waiting for the plane/treadmill advocates to answer this question! >>11141834

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:35:42 2019 No.11141865 >>11141462 My question. Can I sand STILL on the side of treadmill and hold the wing while this experiment takes place? If so then no movement relative to the air around it and no lift.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:35:47 2019 No.11141866 >>11141860 If you have a car moving at 50 mph what speed are it's wheels moving at?

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:36:01 2019 No.11141869

>>11141832
>yes, you are trolling.
Nope.

>if the plane were physically restricted in some manner that would be vital information to include when phrasing the problem.
Clearly not, since the information already given in the problem leads to that conclusion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:36:14 2019 No.11141870 >>11141462 >the conveyor belt is designed to match the speed >designed to Funny, /sci/ getting rolled by the /lit/ nerds. Pottery

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:36:51 2019 No.11141871 >>11141851 >>11141848 You literally do not need to draw a free body diagram, by the conditions of the problem the plane does not move relative to air that would flow across the airfoil surfaces and so it doesnt generate lift.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:38:03 2019 No.11141874

>>11141462
The EARTH is a GIGANTIC SPHERICAL TREADMILL moving at 24000 miles per hour.
Planes sit on the GROUND, which is the EARTH, which is a GIGANTIC SPHERICAL TREADMILL moving at 24000 miles per hour.

..yet, MAGICALLY, planes take off ALL THE TIME, even in the opposite direction of this GIGANTIC SPHERICAL TREADMILL called "THE EARTH"!
Ain't that amazing?

Trolls: 0
/sci/ geniuses: 1
>how will they ever recover?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:38:16 2019 No.11141875 >>11141871 You literally need to draw a free body diagram to that the forces on the body are well defined. >implying you have any education Go ahead, I'll wait for you. In the time it took you to type that you could have already done it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:38:58 2019 No.11141876 >>11141857 I mean theres a reason they use essentially slingshots to launch planes off of aircraft carriers and also essentially the opposite to help them land

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:39:03 2019 No.11141877

>>11141844
>I want you to draw a free body diagram of all the forces on the aircraft.
There are only four forces: gravity pushing the plane down, the treadmill pushing the plane up equal to the force of gravity, the thrust of the engines pushing it forward, and a force from the design of the treadmill countering the force of the engines.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:39:20 2019 No.11141878 >>11141462 >posts are actually discussing this >instead of joking about it The state of /sci/, absolutely.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:39:47 2019 No.11141881 >>11141857 You make sense. It doesn't hurt my head because the treadmill is irrelevant. If you takeoff to the west, the world it a treadmill.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:40:23 2019 No.11141883
File: 8 KB, 666x620, speed.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11141829
now we're getting somewhere. this has been at the root of the confusion the whole time.

everyone trying to be pragmatic about the problem and trying to translate it into a real-world experiment like the mythbusters one is using interpretation B. however, interpretation B necessitates movement in the first place and if the plane can move it's obviously going to take off, just slightly later than usual because of friction holding the wheels back. interpretation A is the one I will stick to because the phrasing is "of the wheel". the wheels are specified. why? the speed of their position is the same as the speed of the plane as a whole. you wouldn't ask how fast someone's wheels were going in a race unless you wanted to know about their rotational movement. "speed of the wheel" is a colloquial term so there's no definitive answer, but interpretation A seems the obviously intended one to me.

side-note: my theory about the original author of the problem is that he simply thought planes applied torque to their wheels to move on the runway. he thought of a plane as a car with wings, essentially.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:40:29 2019 No.11141884

>>11141857
>If a treadmill moving in the opposite direction can prevent an airplane from taking off..
It doesn't say that, it says the design of the treadmill matches the speed of the belt to the wheels. This implies that the design of the treadmill keeps the plane from moving forward. This can easily be done. See >>11141801

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:40:41 2019 No.11141887 >>11141876 Not the same thing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:40:44 2019 No.11141888 >>11141877 For sake of example, let's say the engines put out a thrust of 100 kN. How much force do you think the treadmill imparts on the bearings?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:40:48 2019 No.11141889 >>11141874 >>11141881 Didn't see you there buddy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:41:47 2019 No.11141893 >>11141845 How can you tell? It's an image, not an animation. Regardless, both not moving would still mean the conveyor belt matches the speed of the wheels

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:42:56 2019 No.11141896 >>11141866 Why does it matter? If you have a plane not moving on a conveyor belt the wheels can be moving at any speed. They're free spinning.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:42:59 2019 No.11141897

>>11141881
But Anon, planes take off INTO THE WIND, otherwise they'd crash before getting into the air, all pilots know this, and the wind very often blows in the opposite direction of the Earths' rotation, but (!!!shocker!!!) they don't ground the planes because of that!
???Wonder why that is???
>Could it be.. you're *wrong*? xD

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:43:30 2019 No.11141899 >>11141462 SHUT UP

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:44:30 2019 No.11141904 >>11141884 But Anon if the rotation of the Earth, which is a gigantic spherical treadmill, is in the SAME DIRECTION as the treadmill is running, then why doesn't the plane move BACKWARDS?

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:44:51 2019 No.11141906
File: 75 KB, 600x600, PlaneFBD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11141871
>You literally do not need to draw a free body diagram
You literally couldn't draw a free body diagram to save your life and this is why you are getting this problem wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:45:22 2019 No.11141907 >>11141874 Air is moving along with the Earth. But not with the treadmill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:45:46 2019 No.11141909 >>11141888 You still don't get it. I'm not saying the conveyor belt is imparting a force on the plane through the wheels, I'm saying the treadmill is imparting a force on the entire plane. For example, by putting a wall in front of the plane.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:45:52 2019 No.11141910 Sprint with a window open on a conveyor belt. Do you feel the wind pushing against you? Don't reallt know if the jet engines already generate lift when they take air "in".

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:45:58 2019 No.11141911 >>11141897 Why are you telling me this? I'm not wrong. Wind is relative.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:46:02 2019 No.11141913 >>11141896 Answer the fucking question.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:46:13 2019 No.11141914 >>11141904 This is the dumbest post in the thread yet. Well done!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:46:15 2019 No.11141915 >Earth rotates at 24000mph >All the air on Earth also rotates at 24000mph >How can a plane travel from West to East??? MUST BE MAGIC

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:47:23 2019 No.11141920 >>11141904 Why would it? It's not the rotation of the conveyor belt imparting a force on the plane, it's the specific design of the treadmill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:47:24 2019 No.11141919 >>11141909 >by putting a wall in front of the plane. What treadmill do you know of that constructs walls wherever it goes?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:47:42 2019 No.11141921 >>11141906 But Anon, how does the """treadmill""" know how fast the wheels are moving? Is it a SENTIENT, SELF-AWARE TREADMILL from OUTER SPACE? Was it sent to us by ALIENS??? >OMFGWTFBBQ ALIENS!!!11!! ayy LMAO

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:48:05 2019 No.11141922 >>11141806 >the belt by definition keeps up. That's not what OP says.,

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:48:10 2019 No.11141923 >>11141842 An areospace engineer who has no idea how jet engines work, sure. You are definitely trolling at this point, anon. >>11141707 100% would cum inside

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:48:25 2019 No.11141925 >>11141906 You're missing the treadmill and the part of its design holding the plane in place. Try again.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:48:43 2019 No.11141928 >>11141907 But Anon the Earth is a GIGANTIC treadmill, the plane couldn't POSSIBLY take off! >MUST BE MAGIC

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:49:26 2019 No.11141932 >>11141904 >>11141915 >Earth rotates at 24000mph not relative to the plane. And the Earth won't speed up to match the planes wheels. Zero points for your analogy

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:49:46 2019 No.11141934 >>11141913 Why? >>11141919 The one that keeps a planes wheels spinning at the same speed as its conveyor belt.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:49:53 2019 No.11141935 >>11141909 So the treadmill imparts a body force. This is one fucking magical treadmill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:50:09 2019 No.11141937 >>11141911 >wind is relative relative to what? I don't understand. >>11141919 >What treadmill do you know of that constructs walls wherever it goes? SENTIENT SELF-AWARE ALIEN TREADMILLS FROM OUTER SPACE!!!11!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:50:28 2019 No.11141940 >>11141921 I love how this thread gives people mental breakdowns. Works every time

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:51:17 2019 No.11141943 >>11141928 The Earth is not designed to match the wheels of planes. >>11141935 >a simple wall is magic >cables are magic OK.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:51:27 2019 No.11141944 >>11141932 But Anon, the Earth is going 24000 miles per hour, the plane at best can go 600 miles per hour, the Earth doesn't have to speed up! The plane naturally just goes backwards and never leaves the ground. ..unless it's MAGIC. O_o

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:52:02 2019 No.11141948 >>11141921 Just attach a wire to the back of the plane and wrap it around an axle attached to the treadmill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:52:04 2019 No.11141949 >>11141940 Imagine being the troll who first poisted it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:52:07 2019 No.11141950 >>11141462 no, there is no lift. Imagine elevating the pane on some lifts and just spinning the wheels as fast as you can, of course its not going to go anywhere

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:52:08 2019 No.11141951

>>11141906
I'm sure you think you're so fucking smart, that your FBD that has no actual quantification of forces on it magically makes the plane take off, but you're not and it doesn't.

Did you even read the problem? The plane does not move relative to the air therefore there's no drag across the wetted area so no lift is generated.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:52:28 2019 No.11141952 >>11141944 Can't tell if baiting or low IQ...

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:52:34 2019 No.11141953 >>11141937 >I don't understand I know.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:53:02 2019 No.11141956 If you answered yes: You're from pol, and you have to go back. OUT! OUT! OUT!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:53:06 2019 No.11141957 >>11141934 >Why? Because you're trolling. If you won't answer simple questions.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:53:33 2019 No.11141959 File: 1.51 MB, 425x481, 16b.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141949 yes anon... imagine...

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:53:49 2019 No.11141962 >>11141952 That's just sarcasm. Anon, We talked about this.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:53:50 2019 No.11141963 >>11141925 >you are missing something that doesnt make physical sense

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:54:04 2019 No.11141965 File: 135 KB, 600x600, Conveyor Belt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I wonder how many times I have to post this before take-off-tards give up.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:54:07 2019 No.11141966 >>11141951 >The plane does not move relative to the air The problem states that absolutely nowhere.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:54:47 2019 No.11141968

>>11141940
Listen buddy I've been here since like 2008 or 2009 and I've seen every kind of trolling there is. THIS trolling is OLD and BUSTED and from *week before* Last Thursday. So long as you MOOKS keep trying to push logic and reason they'll have you here ALL NIGHT LONG and run out of tissues for fapping. The only defense is to OUT-BULLSHIT them, or to just exit the thread so they have no one to play with anymore.

At least they're not trying to convince anyone to do shit that will get them hurt or killed..

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:55:33 2019 No.11141973

>>11141957
Why should I answer irrelevant questions? It should be simple for you to explain why your demand is relevant. You can't even respond to the rest of my post explaining your confusion, so you're probably just going to keep making irrational demands instead of admitting you lost the argument. Bye.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:56:09 2019 No.11141975

>>11141948
But Anon, doesn't that """change the conditions of the experiment"""???

>>11141953
Tell me! TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME or I'll hold my breath until I turn blue and pass out!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:56:18 2019 No.11141976 >>11141922 see >>11141883

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:56:35 2019 No.11141978 >>11141963 >a barrier doesn't make physical sense Who hurt you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:56:39 2019 No.11141979 >>11141965 imagine if you opened a textbook instead of obsessing over an ill posed shitpost.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:56:45 2019 No.11141980 File: 25 KB, 256x256, WHVnUDVPMnGU4yAm2ZkG_Xf7-uRR8ca4WZAmktLei5Q.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141966 >The conveyor belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:56:46 2019 No.11141981 >>11141524

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:57:45 2019 No.11141983 Depends on how much air the treadmill moves and turbines move, as they'll have a venturii effect.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:58:12 2019 No.11141985 File: 24 KB, 550x550, fc,550x550,white.u3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141965 But Anon HOW DOES IT NO? Is it SENTIENT? What are you hiding from us, hmmm? Is it a GOVERNMENT SECRET? Are you inside Area 51? SHOW US ALIENS!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:58:15 2019 No.11141986 >>11141962 Honestly m8 this thread does my head in and I legitimately can't tell the trolls from the sincere posts from the sarcastic ones

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:59:00 2019 No.11141987 >>11141980 And the wheels are designed to exactly match the speed of the aircraft.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:59:17 2019 No.11141988 >>11141968 I like you, you'd better not be a takeoffposter

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:59:22 2019 No.11141989 File: 42 KB, 562x437, haha.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141979 triggered take-off-tard

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 00:59:33 2019 No.11141990 >>11141986 Come on help a bro out SHOW US THE SENTIENT ALIEN TREADMILL THAT MAGICALLY KNOWS HOW FAST THE WHEELS ARE MOVING! WE WANT TO SEE!!!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:00:24 2019 No.11141993 >>11141985 It doesn't have to know anything. If it holds the plane still then whatever speed the conveyor belt moves will be matched by the wheels. I'm sorry you can't understand a very simple diagram.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:00:28 2019 No.11141994 >>11141987 WRONG!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:00:55 2019 No.11141995 >>11141986 That wasn't me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:01:08 2019 No.11141996 >>11141994 So you're saying the wheels aren't attached to the plane?

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:01:16 2019 No.11141997

>>11141988
Well OF COURSE it takes off, why would anyone believe anything different?
When I was a kid all the airports had treadmills and the planes ALWAYS took right off like they were supposed to! It got too expensive though so they stopped installing the treadmills on the runways.
>bring back the treadmills! they were too cool for school!
Damned budged cuts, ruins everyones' fun!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:01:55 2019 No.11141999 >>11141462 Depends if the wheels lose traction before enough lift is generated.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:02:06 2019 No.11142000 >>11141987 Yes, and so therefore there's zero net movement of the plane relative to the air and no drag across the wetted surface so no lift.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:02:18 2019 No.11142002 >>11141993 But Anon, how does it KNOW the plane is standing still? IT MUST BE AWAKE SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US SHOW US THE TALKING TREADMILL! PLEEEEZE!?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:02:37 2019 No.11142003 A plane moves through the air. Even when it is on the ground.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:03:15 2019 No.11142007 >>11141707 benis?

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:03:49 2019 No.11142009

>>11141996
yes but as the plane tries to move forward the wheels will move and then the runway will move to counteract that. The entire body of the plane will not move, only the wheels, which will speed up until the plane reaches maximum thrust, where they will reach a peak velocity along with the treadmill

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:04:47 2019 No.11142012

>>11141462
LOL what a silly experiment!

Everyone knows that all planes have levitation spells cast on their wheels so they never ACTUALLY touch the ground, they're always just a LITTLE TINY TEENY BIT above the ground all the time! Saves them money on tires they don't wear out as quick that way, silly boy! So OF COURSE the plane always takes off!
Silly trolls, don't you know Hogwarts already busted this myth on YouTube years ago?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:04:48 2019 No.11142013 File: 531 KB, 408x605, RollRoll5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11142007 >benis? No... do you want there to be one?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:04:52 2019 No.11142014 >>11142003 OOOOooooooOOOOOOoooOOOOo such wise words anon-sama you earn that one from sucking off the dojo-master's cock?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:05:53 2019 No.11142020 File: 28 KB, 633x758, 1484727639676.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >233 replies >25 posters

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:06:07 2019 No.11142021 >>11142009 You're right that the plane will not move but in this case the thrust still accelerates the planes so the wheels will continue to accelerate the and the conveyor belt will also accelerate accordingly

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:06:09 2019 No.11142022 This isn't an answer, but: Consider that the treadmill would have to move much faster than the plane would (at any given thrust), as the friction in the wheels would be small.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:06:30 2019 No.11142023 >>11142009 So where does all that force from the thrust go?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:06:48 2019 No.11142024 >>11142009 ..so I press the big red "JETTISON LANDING GEAR" button and go into VTOL mode. Then press the "PURGE LOO" button to insult the treadmill with the loo tank contents. 8P 8P 8P xD xD xD

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:07:23 2019 No.11142025 >>11142013 Benis would give this thread a -point.-

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:07:48 2019 No.11142027 >>11142009 >then the runway will move to counteract that Then the wheels will move to counteract that. >maximum thrust. It wouldn't even need wings to take off. Those mutherfuckers could suck the concrete off the tarmac.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:08:26 2019 No.11142028 >>11142023 >So where does all that force from the thrust go? Into friction in the bearings, and between the track/wheels.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:08:32 2019 No.11142029

>>11142021
yes. We are actually agreed then so I'm not sure why we are arguing. You said that the conveyor matches the speed of the plane though and this is not entirely true, it only matches the wheels. As we agree, the plane as a whole does not move. I just think your wording was off

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:09:33 2019 No.11142033 >>11142029 I have from the beginning been arguing that the plane does not move and does not take off

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:10:12 2019 No.11142035 >>11142029 >>11142033 Then you're both wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:10:21 2019 No.11142037 >>11142027 >thrust It's not downwards- and planes don't fly as do jets.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:10:30 2019 No.11142038

>>11142027
>Then the wheels will move to counteract that.
>Then the runway will move to counteract that.
>repeat ad infinitum

>It wouldn't even need wings to take off. Those mutherfuckers could suck the concrete off the tarmac.
This is a sentient, indestructible alien runwayscalator please don't apply your human limitations

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:11:32 2019 No.11142042 >>11142033 but you then said that the plane matches the speed of the runway. This is not true because the runway is moving and the plane is not other than the wheels. Do you see the problem with your phrasing?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:12:36 2019 No.11142044 >>11142014 I never sucked a cock. I can lick my tip though. Well, when I was younger. Im right. It doesn't make a fuck about the wheels. They just keep the aircraft from getting all scratched up.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:14:17 2019 No.11142050
File: 448 KB, 479x598, RollRoll7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11142025
>Benis would give this thread a -point.-

Funny... put her there pall put her there

How many times do we have to have this same thread about the conveyor belt and the airplane??!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:14:40 2019 No.11142052 >>11142037 What? And what? A jet is an engine.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:14:47 2019 No.11142054 File: 135 KB, 1200x787, 1200px-Harrier.gr7a.zd431.arp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141462 This is a VTOL airplane. Your argument is invalid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:15:50 2019 No.11142061 >>11142050 >How many times do we have to have this same thread about the conveyor belt and the airplane??! Just like Summer reruns on TV, whenever the trolls run out of new material.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:16:31 2019 No.11142063 >>11142038 Oh. I see ;)

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:17:33 2019 No.11142068 >>11142054 BTFO!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:19:03 2019 No.11142073 File: 52 KB, 1280x720, IMG_0242.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11142054 Sup bro?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:19:16 2019 No.11142074 File: 285 KB, 1024x768, hot-air-balloon-1024.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141462 These are hot air baloons. Your argument is invalid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:19:35 2019 No.11142075 >>11142050 What is m'lady wearning around her waist?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:19:45 2019 No.11142077 File: 11 KB, 221x228, thinkinofyouhurtin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11142061 I'll come up with new material when the old stuff stops triggering you sweetie. But don't cry now >mfw when thinking of you crying

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:20:33 2019 No.11142081 File: 180 KB, 900x1200, Rocket Lab_Electron_Stage 1-72.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141462 This is a rocket, it doesn't even have wheels. Your argument is invalid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:20:34 2019 No.11142082 Well this was a good thread, see ya'll next week.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:21:47 2019 No.11142084 >>11142077 Sweetie, the only tears I'm shedding here are tears of boredom. Seriously, can't you get some new material instead of 10 year old retreads? Boooooooring!

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:23:12 2019 No.11142091 File: 985 KB, 399x295, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11141462 These are hummingbirds. Your argument is invalid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:24:21 2019 No.11142097 >>11142082 Fuck. I thought that was gonna work. Some people have no respect for a good finish.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:26:44 2019 No.11142105

>>11142097
I mean really there's not much else that can be said about it. These threads also boil down to the brainlets that think they'll fly if they stand in place with cardboard airfoils on their arms not understanding the albeit questionable wording on the problem and arguing semantics.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:27:07 2019 No.11142106 File: 1.38 MB, 653x979, RollRoll13.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11142075 >What is m'lady wearning around her waist? I do not know. Reverse image search?

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:28:03 2019 No.11142110 >>11142084 rest assured I will snare you again whether I post new material or old. You will not escape me anon. I am here always ready to anger and annoy. I do not forgive. I do not forget. Expect me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:28:43 2019 No.11142112 no aerodynamics, no lift, no flight

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:30:40 2019 No.11142119 File: 345 KB, 444x599, RollRoll4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11142112 >no aerodynamics, no lift, no flight Better Know aerodynamics; no lift, no flight

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:33:54 2019 No.11142127 >>11141906 Do you think these people would realize how stupid they are if we replaced the plane with a helicopter? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YORCk1BN7QY

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:34:59 2019 No.11142128 >>11142127 That video does not even remotely replicate the problem

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:37:54 2019 No.11142137 >>11142128 You just wish that it didn't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:38:23 2019 No.11142139 >>11142128 >That video does not even remotely replicate the problem Indeed, if it did Adam could have held the wing the entire time, since the plane would have remained stationary.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 01:40:39 2019 No.11142143

>>11142127
Replacing the plane with a helicopter would be a completely different situation. Helicopters use spinning thin airfoils to generate lift, a motor drives the airfoil into the air creating drag on the airfoil and that drag generates a lift.

Planes use props or jet engines to create a thrust and push the body against the air, if the plane is unable to move forward then the airfoils are unable to generate lift.

Anonymous Wed Nov 13 02:02:50 2019 No.11142205

>>11141462
Think what happens to the plane if it standing still on a conveyor belt, what is the force moving it to the right? It is the friction between the wheels and the conveyor.

Now the force that moves the plane to the left is the thrust coming from the engines.

It is correct that if the plane doesn't move it cannot take off, but in order to achieve this the friction between the wheels and the conveyor would have to be the same as the thrust gained from the engines. Now if we are generous and assume that friction is proportional to speed you can see that at the conveyor the frictional force would only be twice that as on the ground, which is nowhere near enough to prevent the take off

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/sci/ - Science & Math