/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11140254]

Why don’t climate change activists ever talk about India, China and Vietnam?

[Anonymous No.11140258]

>>11140254
Because those countries are much harder to convince to actually give a damn about the world they live in, China especially. So there's no point in trying to convince them.

[Anonymous No.11140261]

>if Shithole Y does a thing why can't we do that thing too??

[Anonymous No.11140271]

Probably because of all the members of the Paris climate agreement India is one of the only members to fully meet goals
>Only 2 countries are meeting their climate pledges. Here’s how the 10 worst could improve
>https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/only-2-countries-are-meeting-their-climate-pledges-heres-how-the-10-worst-could-improve

China is still a major source of pollution but is leading green energy development
>China Is Set To Become The World's Renewable Energy Superpower, According To New Report
>https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2019/01/11/china-renewable-energy-superpower/#5d8f6546745a

and Vietnam is the most efficient country in terms of waste production and sustainability, and up until this year had one of the latest 'Earth Overshoot Days' in the world. In 2018 it didnt use more resources than the country had produced until December 20th. Unfortunately, this year they did worse and their Earth Overshoot Day was a few weeks ago. Up until this year though, they were a model for developing countries in terms of global pollution footprint.
>Vietnam consuming natural resources faster than in 2018
>https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-consuming-natural-resources-faster-than-in-2018-3983361.html

So in essence, we ought to be learning from them instead of trying to start activism there.

[Anonymous No.11140274]

>>11140261
i see it as more of a supporting argument
>we dont want to end up like this shithole, do we?

[Anonymous No.11140284]

>>11140274
I like to phase it mockingly
>"Why can't we be worse than third world shitholes?"

[Anonymous No.11140290]

>>11140274
>>11140284
The thing is, North America and Western Europe already went through their respective periods of industrialization. There is literally no reason for us to be a polluted, smoggy shithole.

[Anonymous No.11140297]

>>11140290
Exactly, so I'm historically illiterate people who think we would be better off without the EPA can tongue my anus if they want anything other than mockery and derision from me.

[Anonymous No.11140301]

>>11140297
>I'm
Should be "the". Not really sure what happened there

[Anonymous No.11140307]

itt: asshats not realizing they share their atmosphere with China and India

[Anonymous No.11140361]

>>11140254
Because the problem is the USA (as usual). India and China are still too (very) under developed to impact the system

[Anonymous No.11140387]

>>11140361

[Anonymous No.11140423]

>>11140254
Hey, smoking is bad for you, you should stop smoking.
>Hits 20th cigarette

[Anonymous No.11140425]

because they're white, rich and privileged, and they don't care about some curry people getting sick

[Anonymous No.11140427]

>>11140301
>>11140297
I 100% agree.

[Anonymous No.11140477]

>>11140261
>>11140258
>>11140254
What the fuck are you retards talking about?

[Anonymous No.11140535]

>>11140254
When they do it it isn't pollution, it's a cultural difference. Not to mention that the only reason they got that way is because of white supremacist patriarchal colonialism... ever heard of the Hope Diamond? The British stole it, that's why India is poor now. Otherwise the roles would probably be reversed now.

[Anonymous No.11140558]

>>11140254
For the same reason they avoid talking about nuclear energy - not enough money goes to the politicians.

[Anonymous No.11140562]

>>11140535
United States has more GHG emissions per capita than all these countries you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.11140567]

>>11140558
Nuclear energy is expensive

[Anonymous No.11140573]

>>11140477
The necessity of curbing pollution.

[Anonymous No.11140587]

>>11140573
Then start with your own country you mouth-breathing piece of shit

[Anonymous No.11140591]

>>11140290
>North America and Western Europe already went through their respective periods of industrialization
we just outsourced it. I’m pretty sure NA and EU have the highest consumption thus highest output of waste and energy needs.
but technology has advanced and classical industrialization is not necessary anymore. We can produce much more efficient and with a lower impact than say 100 years ago.

[Anonymous No.11140600]

>>11140587
Hence why I think it is important for North America and Western Europe to dump C into the atmosphere more sensibly. Why are you so fucking dense?

[Anonymous No.11140608]

>>11140591
Agreed. Capitalism and technological progress are our friends.

[Anonymous No.11140614]

>>11140600
Then why the fuck are you talking about Asian countries you absolute retard?

[Anonymous No.11140620]

Because who the fuck are you to dictate other countries' path to development, you first-world-problems pampered gay babby.

[Anonymous No.11140624]

>>11140608
Capitalism is a plague and Bernie will soon heal us

[Anonymous No.11140625]

>>11140361
china is fucking huge, and they have a shitton of industry, so no, they don’t really have a lower impact. But they do have most of that industry to supply demands for NA and EU.

[Anonymous No.11140629]

>>11140614
Probably because the fucking OP of this thread is about asian countries. God DAMN.

[Anonymous No.11140638]

>>11140624
"No"
It is in best interest of those who want to make and save a buck to curb their pollution.

[Anonymous No.11140649]

>>11140254
They do actually, they're perfect examples of what happens when you let big businesses shit up the environment for profit

[Anonymous No.11140658]

>>11140254
I see from this thread here that all the cute little CONSUUUUUUUUUUMERS still think they can consume their way out of this one lol

typical

[Anonymous No.11140659]

>>11140649
>look guys higher population means higher prevalence of X
How stupid are amerimutts? It's fascinating.

[Anonymous No.11140667]

>>11140638
Unfortunately for the CONSUUUUUUUMERS, it will always be "economical" to shit in the drinking water of the people who live downstream.

Enjoy!!

[Anonymous No.11140674]

>>11140659
>doesn't even read or recognize the significance of the post
>thinly veiled racism

CHING CHONG detected

[Anonymous No.11140678]

>>11140587
Kazachstan needs to be stopped!

[Anonymous No.11140686]

>>11140667
Not if we regulate properly and institute a tax incentive to not dump C

[Anonymous No.11140688]

>>11140686
Really kill yourself you retarded brainlet

[Anonymous No.11140692]

>>11140688
outstanding argument. waste of digits.

[Anonymous No.11140702]

>>11140692
ya you didn't make an argument either, retard.

all you do is spout the carbon tax is awesome line from the marketworshipper bible ad nauseum.

[Anonymous No.11140706]

>>11140702
>all you do is spout a very reasonable approach to helping the planet
?

[Anonymous No.11140712]

>>11140706
market worshippers are the cancer that is killing this planet, and a few advil (your carbon tax) isn't gonna help at all, but you already know that

[Anonymous No.11140720]

>>11140712
so what is the solution?
>inb4 culling 3/4 the population
>inb4 centrally planned economies

[Anonymous No.11140743]

>>11140720
1) no new development on pristine land, or that doesn't improve C efficiency
2) carbon rationing

But that's not gonna help your returns, so you'll just keep believing in and selling your asinine market-based non-solutions.

[Anonymous No.11140748]

>>11140659
>wearing a gas mask to work
>i-it's because of our population

[Anonymous No.11140754]

>>11140743
>dude just forbid people from being people

[Anonymous No.11140806]

>>11140702
This.

[Anonymous No.11140822]

>>11140806
>lol no that wont work we have to literally command people to stop breathing!
how draconian

[Anonymous No.11140826]

>>11140608
not necessarily capitalism, seeing as economical doesn’t always translate into ecological efficiency.
For example where I live onions are cheaper if imported from across the globe even if they grow just as well here. So if we want to solve this the easy way via capitalism, the consumer has to be ready to pay some extra in the short to medium term until e.g. semi-local production meets the demands.

[Anonymous No.11140844]

>>11140271
>India is one of the only members to fully meet goals
Were the requirements less stringent for them?

[Anonymous No.11140870]

>>11140361
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Implying

[Anonymous No.11140875]

>>11140271
>So in essence, we ought to be learning from them instead of trying to start activism there.
Yeah. But there are lots of people who just don't want to hear it. "Debating" them is just a waste of time.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/upshot/china-pollution-environment-longer-lives.html
We're even backsliding now.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/11/01/us-air-quality-worse-since-2016-after-years-improvements-report/2499356001/

[Anonymous No.11140878]

>>11140844
no

[Anonymous No.11140926]

>>11140254
India's per capita CO2 is 1/10th of US.
China's per capita CO2 is 1/2 of US.
Vietnam's per capita CO2 is 1/10th of US.

There's bit of noise from China and justifyable. But India and Vietnam? LOL. They're already at the bottom end of the totem pole.

[Anonymous No.11140959]

>>11140254
When do we go to war with china over CO2 emissions? If Climate Change doomsday predictions are correct wouldn't China's emissions be a global threat worthy of declaration of war?

[Anonymous No.11140968]

>>11140926
Per captia is straight retarded tier way of gauging co2. Industries put out way more co2 than average person. Ergo , using population as a division of co2 is stupid

[Anonymous No.11140971]

>>11140361

[Anonymous No.11140974]

>>11140968
>using population as a division of co2 is stupid
no it isn't. a single person producing 100 tons of CO2 per year is more worrisome than 100 people producing 101 tones of CO2 per year.

[Anonymous No.11140979]

>>11140361
>Second Largest Economy
>Developing Nation
Choose one

[Anonymous No.11140982]

>>11140974
The people aren't doing the most pollution; industries are. That one person might have been running an industry. It's much better to do a per-factory measurement or something like that.

[Anonymous No.11140984]

>frogs and wojaks
thanks for making it easy to know which posts aren't worth reading

[Anonymous No.11140985]

>>11140974
But its not a single person. These are INDUSTRIES not populations producing majority of CO2
So if America starts pumping out more babies the co2 is less worrisome? lol fucking idiot han

[Anonymous No.11140989]

>>11140984
>waste time posting complaining about memes.

[Anonymous No.11140991]

>>11140982
>The people aren't doing the most pollution; industries are
industries are composed of people. people are doing the polluting.

[Anonymous No.11140999]

>>11140991
Most people don't work in those specific industries. This population to co2 emission is nonsense. Are you doing this to purposely try to minimize the fact china has more than double US co2 emissions?

[Anonymous No.11141004]

>>11140562
>>11140620
>it's OK for the innocent 2.5 billion chinese and indians and the exploding african population to shit up our one (1) planet, because death to america

[Anonymous No.11141009]

>>11140999
They also have more than double the number of people.

[Anonymous No.11141011]

>>11140999
China does fucked up stuff, I already concede this. This isn't relevant to the fact that USA can cut back.

[Anonymous No.11141013]

>>11140926
>literal permanent smog reducing visibility and making walking around without a respirator (which many people do) a serious health concern
>lol better than america

[Anonymous No.11141014]

>>11141009
Then the solution is for america to have more babies! problem solved!
>manipulating numbers by per capita when the issue is not relevant to population size is stupid.

[Anonymous No.11141016]

>>11141004
>It's OK for 0.33 billion americans to shit up our one (1) planet because there are more chinese and indians and africans because we started first.

[Anonymous No.11141019]

Why do anti-environment fags always bring up China? How does a backwards shithole on the opposite side of the world justify your pollution?

[Anonymous No.11141021]

>>11141011
so when?
>>11140959

[Anonymous No.11141026]

>>11141014
How is the issue not relevant to population size? Without population the C02 output of humans would be zero.

[Anonymous No.11141029]

>>11141019
Because ROLL COAL

[Anonymous No.11141030]

>>11140926
>>11140974
Non-hispanic whites do 1/10 of the murders and violent crime that blacks do per capita. The numbers are clear: if we want to lower the overall crime rate we need to bring preventative policing measures to bear against the blacks and only the blacks.

[Anonymous No.11141033]

>>11141021
Hopefully never. I don't want to fight some fucked up war.
>>11141029
room temperature IQ response

[Anonymous No.11141035]

>>11141030
I don't think anyone should murder.

[Anonymous No.11141039]

>>11141030
So which is it: is looking at per capita rates useless or no?

[Anonymous No.11141041]

>>11141033
Isn't climate change by co2e emissions a danger to human civilization or not?
Whats the threshold where dropping a nuke is environmentally better than allowing China to kill us all?

[Anonymous No.11141042]

>>11141016
>naked anti-americanism with a thin veneer of environmentalism lazily and incompetently painted over top
Show tits. Shave em first though.

[Anonymous No.11141044]

>>11141030
90% of those black crimes are black on blacks, so they really need those in their areas.

[Anonymous No.11141047]

>>11141039
I think they are trying to point out some cognitive dissonance but the problem is that the method of enforcement for climate policies is drastically different from creating a police state.

[Anonymous No.11141048]

>>11141041
>Isn't climate change by co2e emissions a danger to human civilization or not?
yes
>Whats the threshold where dropping a nuke is environmentally better than allowing China to kill us all?
i don't know. presumably very high.

[Anonymous No.11141051]

>>11141035
Wow you solved one of the most difficult problems of governance in 5 seconds flat, 4 seconds of which were spent on a captcha, great job. Why don't we just announce that murder is over?
>>11141039
Yes, that was my question. Is it or is it not interesting that black males, under 7% of the US population, commit roughly 50% of the crime?
>>11141041
There are other ways of bringing a misbehaving civilization to heel.

[Anonymous No.11141058]

>>11140754
>stop people from being people
Hardly.

In fact as long as you're not a property developer like Donald Trump or some other brand of corporate fascist that benefits indirectly from unsustainable growth this type of solution affects your daily life a lot less than an onerous carbon tax would.

[Anonymous No.11141059]

Bernie literally just said we will take charge with a foreign policy programme that aggressively eliminates carbon emissions when we get elected, specifically mentioning China and india. Activists are still fighting their own governments, in America our executive branch thinks it's a hoax and gags researchers in the executive agencies. But activists talk about this all the time, it would be hard not to with the industry shills CONSTANTLY shitting out that ridiculously whattaboutism everywere. The people that actually get fooled by this amaze me.
Look at this video:
https://youtu.be/eoY-FscSjco
WTF HOW DO PEOPLE ACTUALLY GET FOOLED BY THIS
I've met quite a few people that unironically replicate asinine talking points that were literally cooked up by some retarded psychopaths in industry funded think tanks and lobbying groups, word-for-word. I've read the leaked documents, they are full of "we need to focus attention away from the industry and towards consumers" type shit, and a very aggressive program to manufacture doubt.
I've met quite a few active deniers IRL without exception they are morons that think they are very smart. They have no concept of ignorance and they are usually boomers or on the schizophrenia spectrum.
DENIALFAGS AREN'T TROLLING YOU, THEY'RE ACTUALLY RETARDED.
And trolling would make them double retarded.

[Anonymous No.11141061]

>>11141004
You are shitting the planet up far, far more than some random Chang. Twice as much, in case you're an American. So yeah, death to America & Friends is objectively a better solution than throttling the third world.

But these aren't the only options. We could hold the much-ballyhooed 1% who are driving, and profiting from, said pollution responsible. But instead, we are worshipping them as "visionaries" who are "advancing mankind" for using said profits to build themselves space lifeboats.

[Anonymous No.11141062]

>>11141051
>Yes, that was my question
I think it is useful. Hence why it is useful to look at per capita CO2.

[Anonymous No.11141063]

>>11140254
They are producers for different economies...

And climate change activists do just that.

[Anonymous No.11141069]

>>11141047
>the method of enforcement for climate policies is drastically different from creating a police state
Right. You harass the businesses with unreasonable and often insane regulations until they give up and move their operations to China, resulting in (1) no decrease in air pollution, (2) the death of yet another rust-belt city with (3) the now-well-studied accompanying spike in poverty, addiction and suicide, and (4) giving up a little more economic power and industrial capacity to the closest thing to a real geopolitical rival

But if fetal alcohol girl says to do it, we have to do it, after all. Her word is law

[Anonymous No.11141073]

>>11141069
Rust belt cities deserve to die if they cannot compete. lrn2market.

[Anonymous No.11141074]

>>11141061
>death to America
Well. That was easy.

[Anonymous No.11141078]

>>11141061
>random Chang
10 Changs work for Big Chang, who himself consumes 10x the average american

this is ok by your logic

[Anonymous No.11141079]

>>11140254
If we don't convince our own tribe, how can we tell other tribes what to do?

[Anonymous No.11141081]

>>11141069
Carbon based tariffs are non negotiable. Honestly the neoliberal corporate shills who let corporations move to third world nations so they wouldn't have to pay americans a living wage should all be shot. And any """""""American""""""" corporation who moved manufacturing overseas taxed into absolute oblivion until they get the hint.

[Anonymous No.11141082]

>>11140254
>Why don’t climate change activists ever talk about India, China and Vietnam?

Because even you are woefully unaware of the REAL crisis, the African Population bomb.

Four BILLION more Africans in the next 80 years.

These Africans are NOT going to remain low carbon users.

[Anonymous No.11141086]

>>11141082
Ok retard

[Anonymous No.11141087]

>>11141082
Better start investing in making non carbon emitting energy and transportation viable then.

[Anonymous No.11141088]

>>11141086
>Ok retard

What? You think these four BILLION more people are going to live organic lives living in huts?
Seriously if you care about the global environment you will be doing everything you can to stop the African Population bomb.

[Anonymous No.11141090]

>>11141087
>making non carbon emitting energy and transportation viable

probably the simple act of doing this (if it is even possible) for 4 billion people exhausts many times over the remaining carbon budget.

[Anonymous No.11141092]

>>11141087
>Better start investing in making non carbon emitting energy and transportation viable then.

Or HEAVILY push birth control into African Society.

[Anonymous No.11141093]

>>11141082
>These Africans are NOT going to remain low carbon users
But this isn't true. Africans have access to technology that is cheaper, more efficient, and cleaner than Americans did 100 years ago and that the Chinese did 50 years ago.

[Anonymous No.11141094]

>>11141092
Bill Gates is trying, doesn't seem to be enough.

[Anonymous No.11141095]

>>11141092
If All these charity groups and environmental groups all paid $500 to every African woman to spay themselves after 2 children, the problem would go away.

[Anonymous No.11141096]

>>11141090
just use renewable sources to power manufacturing facilities and transportation in the supply chain it's honestly not rocket science.

[Anonymous No.11141097]

>>11141069
>thinking it was climate activism that destroyed the rust belt
Are you trying to argue or is this some historical fiction thing.

[Anonymous No.11141098]

>>11141079
>our own tribe
that's considered "racist" now. so might as well forget about convincing anyone

[Anonymous No.11141100]

>>11141095
>>11141092
>>11141088
>>11141082
imagine being a person with a "nigger hate" folder on their HD.

[Anonymous No.11141103]

>>11141097
just idiots trying to cope with the fact there's no place in America for illiterate idiots unwilling to adapt.

[Anonymous No.11141105]

>>11141087
Why is it these types are so circumscribed in their thinking that the only possible solutions to any problem outside of white countries are giving free money and often nonexistent magical future tech... while inside white countries the solution is always deindustrialization and genocide?
>non carbon emitting energy and transportation
So you mean some kind of biodegradable latex tires they'll put around your neck, and a renewable alcohol-based biofuel for when they want to ignite it?

[Anonymous No.11141107]

>>11141095
Who was it that pushed abstinence only into africa?

[Anonymous No.11141108]

>>11141096
>just get oxen to pull trains down the tracks by feeding them high energy concentration oats, honestly its not rocket science

you live in a fantasy science fiction universe

[Anonymous No.11141110]

>>11141105
>muh white genocide
kek
yeah sorry no one's signing up for your retarded genocidal solutions, are you going to keep crying about it?

[Anonymous No.11141112]

>>11141100
I know eh, but honestly 092 is pretty funny

[Anonymous No.11141113]

>>11141108
Oats are solar powered.

[Anonymous No.11141114]

>>11141100
>imagine being a person with a "nigger hate" folder on their HD.

Sorry but The truth is Africans and their decedents are NOT the best for a civilization. They are a HUGE burden for the rest of the world. Fell free to tell me about the African philosophers you follow, or ANY black African lead nation you would choose to live in or even the fantastically well educated multiple Nobel prize winning universities ANYWHERE in Africa.

[Anonymous No.11141118]

>>11141114
You, on the other hand, are a magnificent specimen. You bring nothing but good to your community. Your peers all look up to you and your many achievements.

[Anonymous No.11141119]

>>11141108
hitting 100% electricity production from non CO2 emitting sources is 100% viable with today's technology. that takes care of almost all industrial emissions. Techniques exist which make cement production carbon negative. EV's are already better than ICE's in 90% combined with electric rails takes care of almost all transportation emissions. The only major sectors left are aviation and international shipping. which account for around 5% of global emissions.

[Anonymous No.11141122]

>>11141119
>hitting 100% electricity production from non CO2 emitting sources is 100% viable with today's technology
nope
you forgot to factor in whether its economical or not. its not. otherwise it would already have been done. sorry about your technoutopian fantasy.

[Anonymous No.11141125]

>>11141103
>classes and communities lower than mine on the social totem-pole are stupid, lazy and intransigent, and naturally deserve any horrid fate my own tribe visits upon them
OK, serious question: Do you know what a "tumbrel" is?

[Anonymous No.11141126]

>>11141122
it's not profitable for oil oligarchs you mean. Which is true, humanity collectively needs to decide if that's really that important.

[Anonymous No.11141129]

>>11141122
It's more economical than global warming.

[Anonymous No.11141130]

>>11141122
>Everything that's possible has already happened
Far out, dude

[Anonymous No.11141131]

>>11141125
LMAO just get a better job lazy socialist no one's gibbbing u 15 an hour to flip burgers

[Anonymous No.11141133]

>>11141088
lol you're IQ is like: nothing, obviously. please get off the internet.
>>11141092
Epic retard, did you know that right wing governments all around the world(esp. and most importantly USA) deny foreign aid to "developing" countries that practice birth control and abortion? And you racists HATE foreign aid.
https://apnews.com/5e11d44fa31c48e68cdebac26774259b
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL you retarded bigots are actively working against yourselves here, better campaign for Bernie if you want to solve this 'crisis'. You stormweenies are toooooo much ha ha ha literally just schizo birdbrains that understand NOTHING, you probably all have lead poisoning. Your ignorance is genuinely tragicomical
Get the fuck away from this website idiot

[Anonymous No.11141134]

>>11141119
>is 100% viable with today's technology

I agree IF every industrialized citizen on the planet agrees to pay 5 years income into this project it will work.

Average income is say 50K/years, so you your wife and 2 kids owe ONE MILLION dollars on top of all the other taxes you usually pay.

Thank you for decreasing human cause Co2.

Please note that thew are in an inter-glacial period of an ice age and we can expect the climate to change.

[Anonymous No.11141136]

>>11141133
don't give /pol/ retards (You)s

[Anonymous No.11141141]

>>11141126
>oil oligarchs
Like who? You mean that Biden boy?>>11141133
Gene Ray? I heard you were dead..!

[Anonymous No.11141143]

>>11141134
fuck off with your literal joke graphs.

Aw sick dude, you did the math? let me see your numbers dude

[Anonymous No.11141145]

>>11141126
>>11141129
>>11141130
lol do you know what the word economical means? its to do with energy return on energy invested.
If its not economical it very likely that it has a lower energy return on energy invested than what is, therefore the transition means lower population.

But whatever, I suggest you never let go of your delusional fantasies.... the brutal reality of the situation would be crushing to the eternal optimist.

[Anonymous No.11141146]

>>11141133
>And you racists

How is it racist to note that nowhere on the planet earth has in influx of African INCREASED the security, over all intellectual grown, safety, cleaner, and prosperity to the natives.

[Anonymous No.11141147]

>>11141136
Nah, FUCK THAT
that is exactly why they stick around. Their retardation needs to be called constantly or the virus will spread.
Fence sitters like you let them take over.
ITS TIME TO CULTURE WAR MOTHAFUCKA

[Anonymous No.11141149]

>>11141145
EROEI is a meaningless metric, all that matters is LCOE, the damage climate change will cause far exceeds the cost of investing in sustainable energy.

[Anonymous No.11141150]

>>11141145
Unfortunately there is no bankruptcy court for the entire human race. You can't just look at a huge loss and call it quits. Individual profits aren't worth jack shit when everyone else suffers.

[Anonymous No.11141151]

>>11141143

Relax Dude, you, your children, and your grand children will all experience the SAME weather patterns. There is no reason to go vegan and celibate in the rush to "save" the planet.

[Anonymous No.11141153]

>>11141147
They stick around because you give them (You)s, you underage retard. Stop taking the bait. You will never convince them.

[Anonymous No.11141155]

>>11141151
>SAME weather patterns.
citation needed

[Anonymous No.11141156]

>>11141146
very dumb and childish note to take. You think like a 10 year old.

[Anonymous No.11141158]

>>11141153
honestly /pol/tards are different from old school trolls, they unironically believe all the shit they preach. You can tell by how butthurt they get when confronted by facts and logic.

[Anonymous No.11141164]

>>11141149
>EROEI is a meaningless metric
this is a science based board. youre not into science. why are you here, to shill?
>>11141150
>when everyone else suffers
this is unfortunately inevitable as population grows, energy resources are depleted, and EROEI increases.

[Anonymous No.11141166]

>>11141156
>very dumb and childish note to take.
So contradict me, give an example of a GREAT African university, tell me what black African lead nation you WANT to move to, what great African philosopher do you admire, where is the place that an influx of African made everyone richer, safer, smarter, and cleaner?

[Anonymous No.11141168]

>climatechangeracebait thread
*hidden*

[Anonymous No.11141170]

>>11141061
While the mutt may pollute more individually, there are a hundred more Vhangs, Pajeets, and niggers for every one.
Nice try schlomo, you want to make us whites extinct.

[Anonymous No.11141173]

>>11141153
>Stop taking the bait.
FOOL how long is it going to take you to learn that /pol/ isn't trolling, "trolling" is a facade. The mass shooters aren't trolling, the protesters aren't trolling, they are actually retarded. This dullard isn't here for a laugh buddy, it's serious. I was here before /pol/ dipshit, you need to wake up and see just how virulent these people actually are. I don't want to convince them idiot, I want to shame them.

[Anonymous No.11141175]

>>11141164
my mistake I didn't realize you were worried about when the sun burns out and the planet's angular momentum is depleted.

[Anonymous No.11141183]

>>11141168
>>climatechangeracebait thread

Dude, we need to consider the African Population bomb when we work on GLOBAL climate change. We can nor hide this problem under the rug, FOUR BILLION Africans will be added to the planet earth in the next 80 years almost ALL the growth in the GLOBAL HUMAN POPULATION will be African for at least the next 80 years if not much longer.

Africa can NOT be treated like any other are of earth, because it has Africans on it and Africans have thought "racist" history been noted as the lowest intellectual humans.

[Anonymous No.11141188]

>>11141166
This observation is just low fidelity, functionally illiterate, it doesn't matter of it's true. Like a baby might point at a dog and say "doggy", yeah that's true but it's just some inane bullshit. And you haven't even given any evidence. I swear you can't even conceptualize how ignorant you are.

[Anonymous No.11141203]

>>11141156
>believes in the anthropological equivalent of Santa Claus
>calls others childish
>>11141188
>doubles down
>wasting double dubs

[Anonymous No.11141205]

>>11141188

OK, so ALL your climate change work comes to naught because FOUR BILLION new humans were born in the poorest most uneducated region on the planet and THEY choose not to live as their parents have and they pollute as bad as any industrializing area on earth has.

We can stop this problem if we act now to push birth control into Africa. NO AID goes into Africa unless the nation receiving it has a demonstrated record of limiting population growth.

[Anonymous No.11141214]

>>11141205
Provide evidence you idiot. Literally baseless assertions you ripped of an infograph some tard made in MS paint.

[Anonymous No.11141225]

>>11140567
So is the Paris agreement. If we stopped pumping trillions into that we could invest it into nuclear which would actually make a difference

[Anonymous No.11141226]

>>11141214
>Provide evidence you idiot.
Do you trust the UN. Here is their own forecast.

I would be saying the safe thing about China but China but china nipped its population bomb in the bud long ago and now it is reaping the financial rewards of small educated families.

India is growing but it is slowing VERY fast its growth rate and should stabilize soonish

[Anonymous No.11141228]

>>11141205
>offer aid in exchange for demonstrated population reduction
Fucking this.
>>11141214
Why the hostility? The 4 million figure is from the UN's own public estimates.

[Anonymous No.11141229]

>>11140587
Why don't we stop massive third world immigration to first world countries then? Wouldn't this make a big difference on the carbon foot print?

[Anonymous No.11141250]

>>11141226
>Do you trust the UN. Here is their own forecast.
As a matter of fact I do not trust the UN and that is not their "forecast" that is a chart, it means nothing. it doesn't show the data set the are extrapolating from, it doesn't show what methods they use, doesn't give any experimental evidence, doesn't even mention probability, it's not dated. YOU CANT EVEN CITE THE FUCKING THING KILL YOURSELF.
get the fuck off this board brainlet

[Anonymous No.11141252]

>>11141229
But don't you see, anon? Everyone has a right to happiness and a high standard of living. And leeching directly off a first-world country's social system, and adding directly to its carbon footprint, is just the fairest, most socially-just way of doing it. Don't forget colonialism, goy. You owe us.

[Anonymous No.11141256]

>>11140587
Note this graph is PER Capita 2017 so in 80 years North America will be around 600 million people and if we got smart our carbon footprint per capita will decrease to say 10T/year.
Africa will be roughly 4.5 BILLION people and their per capita will have increased to 5T/year (HALF of a North American's) BUT because they out number North American by about 7 times, then Africa will produce far 3.5 times much C02 than North America.

THIS is why the African population bomb is so terrifying fore the future, ALL the climate change work done in North America means almost nothing if Africa continues to grow.

Go ahead and unsee the truth if it makes you happy.

[Anonymous No.11141257]

>>11141250
>performing a reductio ad absurdum on yourself
Rene Descartes? Is that you? Let us know when you build yourself back up to "sum", then we'll supply you with the secret URL for the UN's public and widely accessible population numbers and commentary

[Anonymous No.11141262]

>>11141226
I reverse imaged searched and turns out this isn't from the UN at all but was made by Steve Sailer, a literalwho journalist that gave no citations

[Anonymous No.11141266]

>>11141257
Fucking cringe Descartes reference bro.
Go ahead and give me the citation
>>11141262
Oh wait that's right, the UN didn't actually publish that chart.

[Anonymous No.11141268]

>>11141262
>reverse image searched
That's a good sign, it means you're aware that your assumptions might be wrong and are willing to learn. Try reverse-searching this one >>11141228

[Anonymous No.11141277]

>>11141262
Here just got this 2019 from UN.

[Anonymous No.11141285]

>>11141277
Here is another snip of the UN World population

See: https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/Probabilistic/POP/TOT/900

[Anonymous No.11141288]

>>11141277
>>11141285

As You can see Africa accounts for almost ALL the world population growth in the next 80 years.

[Anonymous No.11141291]

>>11141277

Here is what Europe looks like. Note the DECREASE in population in the next 80 years

[Anonymous No.11141292]

>>11141277
>6 BILLION people in africa
Goodbye elephants
Goodbye rhinos
Goodbye gorillas
Goodbye chimps
Goodbye giraffes
Goodbye soil
Goodbye air
Goodbye fresh water
Goodbye any stop to climate change
It's nothing personal, we just needed room and energy to house and feed impossible numbers of africans

[Anonymous No.11141327]

>>11141133
>"you hate foreign aid therefore you support explosive populations"
>proceeds to write three lines of "I'm definitely not mad and crying guys"
fuck off kid

[Anonymous No.11141328]

>>11141147
no offence but people don't come to /pol/ to be radicalized, retards like you radicalize them to then go and visit right wing spaces. if it weren't for hillary herself she would have won the electon

[Anonymous No.11141331]

>>11141118
Nice ad hom bro, you sure convinced fence sitters to see your viewpoint

[Anonymous No.11141336]

>>11140254
>thinking climate change activists don't ever talk about India, China, and Vietnam
Lrn2read fgt pls

[Anonymous No.11141338]

>>11141328
>if it weren't for hillary herself she would have won the electon

No, Trump really, truly won the election and Hillary was one of the best financed, supported by the media, and had a long history of public recognition.

Trump is an incredible natural politician.

[Anonymous No.11141343]

>>11141175
>angular momentum is depleted
angular momentum is conserved you fucking moron.

nice job outting yourself as some economist/political hack/shill. go back to trolling pol, moron. /sci/ence isn't and never was your thing

[Anonymous No.11141475]

>>11141343
Angular momentum is conserved, angular momentum of the planet is not. The Earth is losing momentum to the Moon due to tidal friction. Dunning Kruger in action.

[Anonymous No.11141583]

>>11141098
Nation-state, economic bloc, whatever you want to call it.

[Anonymous No.11141600]

Aaaaaay

[Anonymous No.11141665]

>>11141327
>Reading comprehension
noooooooo lol I was genuinely bullying you stormweenies. My clunky remark about foreign aid wasn't related to the rest of that post. I started to more elaborately roast the hypocrisy, wasn't worth the time so a left it at a one-off.
Anyways THE BIG EPIC RETARD MOMENT WAS:(I'm using caps to indicate what you need to pay attention to) When you cry about the population bomb 'crisis'(as if it is even close to our climate problem) you say that in order to avoid disaster we must force birth control on Africa BUT WHAT YOU DON KNOW IS THAT THE POLITICAL AGENDA YOU SUPPORT AND THE POLITICIANS YOU ELECT ENACT LAWS THAT DENY FOREIGN AID TO COUNTRIES THAT USE BIRTH CONTROL, EFFECTIVELY FORCING STATES IN SUB SUBSAHARAN AFRICA TO BAN BIRTH CONTROL, ON TOP OF THAT THE FUNDAMENTALIST ALLIES OF WHITE SUPREMACY EXPORT RELIGIOUS PRACTICES THAT DISCOURAGE THE USE OF CONTRACEPTIVES.
so if you actually want politicians to go along with you political necessities, you would be better off voting for progressives lmao. And population growth in Africa is nothing compared to climate change, dumbass

[Anonymous No.11141811]

>>11141328
>No offense
shut the fuck up you obvious plebbiter. This is a right wing space dingus. It's a right wing space precisely because dumb ass fence sitters like you allow white supremacy's semiotic regime to dominate uncontested. The statistical effect of letting pol tards go uncontested is a biased sample where right wing propaganda is viewed as normal and dissidence is abnormal. That's why you got on to me for calling out stormfront's idiocy (are you SURE you aren't a Nazi?) If there is no critical opposition, and no given alternatives, the path to hatered is left unobstructed.
Dumbass centrist takes like yours allow neonazis to be omnipresent on 4chan. Learn the meta game new fag, the message does not matter here.

[Anonymous No.11141840]

>>11140254
Because they know a scam when they see one. Just to be clear I'm talking about CO2 and not industrial pollution.

[Anonymous No.11141873]

>>11141059
I would say it is you sir who is an intellectual idiot that is being fooled. The earth has been warmer in the past and much colder too. What is the normal temperature of the earth? What cause these changes? It's the sun!!

[Anonymous No.11142030]

>>11141257
>then we'll supply you with the secret URL for the UN's public and widely accessible population numbers and commentary
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
https://www.nature.com/news/2011/110511/full/473125a.html

[Anonymous No.11142056]

The answe is simple.

Go big on nuclear power (like we should have 75 years ago), completely decarbonize the energy grid in First World, then utilize that know-how and econony of scale to export cheap nuclear power to every developing country to head off their industrialization and help catapult them econonimcally.

Once nuckear fueles industrialization rapidly increases household incomes of these developing countries, feminism takes hold and birth rates drop like fucking rocks.

We need to go nuclear on this problem. The longer we wait and the more ineffective solutions we push for only exacerbates both the per capita carbon footprint AND the population overshoot.

[Anonymous No.11142351]

>>11142030
>the UN be rayciss an shit
Sure. I mean, anything's possible.

[Anonymous No.11142356]

>>11142030
>literally-who journalist takes a devil's-advocat position
I don't blame him, he's gotta ear. But history hasn't exactly confirmed this idea. The article's from 2011, and this chart is from the UN in 2019 >>11141277

[Anonymous No.11142359]

>>11142030
>literally-who journalist takes a devil's-advocate position on a scientific consensus
I don't blame him, he's gotta eat. But history hasn't exactly confirmed this idea. The article's from 2011, and this chart is from the UN in 2019 >>11141277

[Anonymous No.11142379]

>>11140979
>>Second Largest Economy

[Anonymous No.11142403]

>>11142359
>The article's from 2011, and this chart is from the UN in 2019
Wrong extrapolations 80 years from now don't become any more correct because you keep repeating them. UN populations forecasts have been persistently over-estimating growth rates since those projections started.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/882d/ce3ff4f7869f130ca02629ee0b475d49c88d.pdf

[Anonymous No.11142406]

>>11140254
because the bugs don't care what we think, only guilt tripped EU and NA cares

[Anonymous No.11142452]

>>11140254
because das racist

[Anonymous No.11142477]

>>11142403
>UN populations forecasts have been persistently over-estimating growth rates since those projections started.
Not for Africa. I know you didn't like Steve Sailer graphs before, but since you now accept the previous one and know where to find the source data, there shouldn't be any objection to pic related.

[Anonymous No.11142675]

>>11140254
Why do /pol/incels parrot the trumpist talking point about India and China not caring about Global Warming, despite all the evidence to the contrary (see >>11140271)? Can they even bother to Google a subject for 5 seconds instead of taking the word of their cult leader as gospel?

[Anonymous No.11143330]

>>11140254

The Paris accords will NOT stop Co2 emissions from increasing because they completely fail to consider the number one issue preventing C02 emissions from falling.

Africa's population WILL increase by FOUR BILLION people in the next 80 years (Four billion people is the entire world population in 1974).

Even if Africa uses all the best carbon emission technology and each African produces HALF the per capita Co2 the average industrialized nation citizens produce, Co2 emissions will INCREASE on the planet.

The only viable solution to actually decreasing Co2 emission on a global scale is to prevent the African population bomb.

We are not asking that Africans have no children, but only asking that the AVERAGE African woman have no more than two children.

That is all, we need to refuse any outside aid to any African nation until they demonstrate a proven record of population control.

Small families can put all their resources on creating healthy, well educated children.

[Anonymous No.11143335]

>>11140254

Because the whole thing is not really about the climate.

[Anonymous No.11143336]

>>11142675

china sells a lot of green energy products because EU cucks buy them

[Anonymous No.11143356]

>>11141059
>when we get elected
are you on his campaign team?

[Anonymous No.11143365]

>>11140254

To all the Zhengs talking about how great China is, why don't they stop building coal plants?

226GW is more than all the renewables in the US combined including Nuclear

[Anonymous No.11143379]

>>11143365
>To all the Zhengs talking about how great China is, why don't they stop building coal plants?

Now you see why Trump said that this agreement is bullshit. USA has to CUT its Co2 emissions and slow its economy at the same time China is increasing them and speeding up its economy.

The Paris agreements are pure Socialist/Communist thinking, the rich and successful must be slowed and taxed for the others.

Punish success reward failure.

[Anonymous No.11143430]

>>11143365
>>11143379
what do you think of their argument that China is supposedly leading the world in renewable energy production?

[Anonymous No.11143449]

>>11143430
>what do you think of their argument that China is supposedly leading the world in renewable energy production?

China is the world's factory, you would be hard pressed to find ANY emerging technology that China is not leading the world in producing.

China is also leading in producing high carbon emitting coal plants.

[Anonymous No.11143466]

[Anonymous No.11143549]

>>11143466
This thread is about GLOBAL WARMING not OCEAN PLASTIC. The only commonality between the two issues being RACISM.

[Anonymous No.11143613]

>>11143549
Dumb right winger doesn't understand that plastic pollution is a product of forced "free markets" and the deregulation, privatization, and gutting of social and environmental services in debtor states that is brought about by the structural adjustment programs imposed by the first world's globobanks and corrupt trade agreements. China is a special case but it's really the same thing with a different power dynamic.
Only an unlearned doofus who doesn't understand how global corporate hegemony works would think this has anything to do with race.

[Anonymous No.11143632]

>>11143613
are African countries more capitalist than the US then?

[Anonymous No.11143636]

>>11141173
That would require you to actually shame them instead of acting like a cringy retard

[Anonymous No.11143663]

>>11143613

plastic pollution is caused evil socialist scientists inventing plastic materials

[Anonymous No.11143671]

>>11143613

pollution in the third world is caused by tragedy of the commons, you ask some poor pajeet how he gets rid of all the plastic garbage, he will say he dumps it all in the river, since the river is a public good owned by no one

[Anonymous No.11143679]

>>11140258
Faggot China is planting more trees than any other country and also bought trash from the West for decades.

[Anonymous No.11143691]

>>11143466
Look at that image and realize that the USA is the worlds economic driver and it has VERY low plastic waste or plastic pollution.

This is NOT a rich vs poor thing, this is almost entirely a society issue. Americans care about the environment and clean things up, we don't just toss stuff on the ground and walk away.
Most plastic pollution comes from societies that just toss junk out of their window when done with it.

[Anonymous No.11143712]

>>11143632
No it's just easier for capitalists to get their way in 'developing' countries that don't have strong democratic institutions that hold the state accountable for regulating industry. American capitalists simply invest in overseas industries to produce our consumables, but they try very very hard to subvert American democracy and destroy our regulatory bodies. And they have had great success especially in recent years. The reason why America doesn't have so much plastic pollution is advanced consumer economies have the infrastructure to deal with waste. American private waste disposal services simply collect and ship surplus single-use plastic waste to poor countries at a profit. there's an ebb and flow of commodities coming into the USA and trash flowing out of it.
>>11143636
I'm an insurrectionary cringelord
>>11143671
Lol no that's a baseless liberal myth. Funny that you mention pajeet because India is my go-to example of the toxic effects of privatization. Millions of indians have been forced off the land they farmed for thousands of years into slums where they become dependent on processed foods wrapped in single use plastics. This forced privatization is from neoliberal structural adjustment programs that privatize common land and give it to international mega corps like Nestle. Literally the exact opposite of the mythical "tragedy of the commons" is what's happening. Wake up sheepson.
>>11143691
>>11143663
Epic retard moments

[Anonymous No.11143730]

>>11143691
>Epic retard moments
I never understood how people who do not want to face a problem call people who do retards,

YOU explain why some societies clean up their neighborhoods and others do not. America and Japan are clean. China and India are dirty.

[Anonymous No.11143736]

>>11140361
>China are still too (very) under developed

[Anonymous No.11143746]

>>11143330

Poor people cannot feed one child and therefore can equally not feed 20 children.

The only proven way to reduce birth rates is wealth increase causing poor countries to finally be able to afford feminism.

[Anonymous No.11143752]

>>11141252
>muh immigrants are on the dole and don't do anything
*citation needed

[Anonymous No.11143755]

>>11143730
Because they can afford waste disposal services that other countries do not have.
I'm American and I do not see what you are talking about. People that are too poor to afford private waste disposal services here simply burn or dump their plastic, especially in the rural areas like the one where I live.
In fact the entire antilittering campaign in America was AstroTurfd by plastics manufacturers to shit the ire of the early environmental movement from the plastics industry to consumers (much like energy shifts the blame to consumers now) the famous 'crying Indian' commercial and the 3 R's slogan were literally funded and invented by plastics manufacturers.
Your chauvinism has no basis in reality

[Anonymous No.11143758]

>>11143736
>>China are still too (very) under developed

You are either a troll or completely uninformed.
China is the number ONE producer of carbon dioxide gases of ALL nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

[Anonymous No.11143766]

>>11143746
>Poor people cannot feed one child and therefore can equally not feed 20 children.

Your thinking is beyond any sane humans; WTF!
You literally said poor people can not afford to feed one child so they instead create 20 children they can not feed.
EVEN MORE of a reason to stop all aid to any nation until they have a proven record of population control.

[Anonymous No.11143784]

>>11143712

sounds like urbanization to me. Subsistence farmers have low productivity, so government move them into towns and give the land to companies that can make more productive use of the land.

[Anonymous No.11143788]

>>11143755

Dude, cleaning up your surroundings have NOTHING to do with wealth.
My grandparents were dirt poor Appalachian farmers, but their entire home and farm were spotlessly clean.
Cleanliness is next to godliness.
There was no Waste disposal trash pickup, they burned the combustible, and hauled the rest to a communal dump.

The facts are, some societies are clean and others live in filth. Wealth and poverty have nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous No.11143797]

>>11140254
Because of Jews

[Anonymous No.11143803]

>>11143712

People are only making noise because they gave land to western corporations. If they gave the land to local real estate developers like in china, then nobody would care.

[Anonymous No.11143812]

>>11143784
t. Ed Glaeser
"Urbanization" is also a crock of shit cooked up to cover up what is obviously a blatant land grab. You are incredibly bluepilled, I'm trying to help you. "Productivity" is code for PROFIT. You are being manipulated to believe that greed and justice are the same thing.
>>11143788
Most trash in the third world comes from slums, and if you knew anything about other cultures you would know that their are people in every culture that care very deeply about their home and work very hard to keep it lovely. Being able to live off the land and having no money is one thing, living in slums and having no money is something entirely different, one is wholesome, the other is pure hell. This is coming from someone whose family never left the mountains.

[Anonymous No.11143823]

>>11143812

actually i agree that instead of forcing farmers off the land, government should help farmers become more productive by lending them money to purchase automation equipment

[Anonymous No.11143824]

>>11143812
No, you do not get to pull the poor slum living as an excuse. Japanese were dirt fucking poor after WW2 and lived in huge cities and they did NOT live in dirty hellholes.
Some societies are OK with living in dirty hell holes and other not. Indonesians and Indians will live in trash up their knees while Americans and Japanese will not.

[Anonymous No.11143870]

>>11143766

Except cutting aide will not reduce the number of children. It will only entrench large poor families until other factors pull them out of abject poverty, their women can finally get jobs that do not involve poor working conditions or physicality, and stop having children due to female equality.

Nuclearization of world energy can privide carbon free energy in abundance to help them jump through the hoop of industrialization to get to that point quickly.

[Anonymous No.11143894]

>>11143870
>Except cutting aide will not reduce the number of children
Wrong. Giving aid will produce larger families as is happening NOW. All the aid given to Africa is NOT stopping the population bomb.

Sadly the only way to solve the problem is to remove the first world nation nipple from the mouths of the African leaders.

Birth control is very inexpensive and works well.
The African leaders will have GREAT incentive to push birth control when their money is turned off by the rich nations.

A sensible average of two children per woman needs to be pushed and pushed hard in Africa.

What we are doing now is FAILING and repeating it in different forms will fail just as bad.

STOP giving AID to Africa until Africa starts to fix itself.

[Anonymous No.11144128]

>>11143712
can you stop saying "liberal" and "neoliberal" as if you aren't one

[Anonymous No.11144155]

>>11143823
That's almost as bad as enclosing the commons directly. Locking people into debt bondage that forces them to toil and rape their home with extractive monocultures to feed processed food supply chains would effectively consolidate subsistence farms into big ag monopolies and would only accelerate the rapid industrialization and urbanization that is quickly turning the entire planet into a futureless shithole. This is pretty much what killed the American family farm and transformed the USA into a dystopian burgerpunk debt-based retail economy. rape everything you can get out of the soil and force farmers to either go bankrupt or sell their home to tract housing developers!
Industrial agriculture is incredibly inefficient and wasteful, you can only artificially increase yields with chemical fertilizers for so long before it all takes a shit and you are left nothing but dead land and Dollar General. Despite a global food surplus, millions go hungry. The industrial ag scheme will be impossible with the warming climate, the lack of crop biodiversity means that our staple foods will be extremely vulnerable to famine, and in fact higher CO2 concentrations will make most of our staple crops even more nutrient deficient.
There is absolutely no defense for this retarded system that literally oy exists to financialize and extract capital from every living thing that can be capitalized. This is far from progress, in fact we are rapidly regressing to an debiotized homogeneous earth.
>>11143824
Literally nobody likes living in trash don't be stupid. Of course there are cultural differences in affect and cultural mores but our trash problem is caused by economic factors. It is a fallacy of arrogance to assume that trash is a rational failing. People in the developing world have bigger problems, like working 18 hour shifts for barely enough money to keep their family from starving. I don't say this often but you unironically need to check your privilege.

[Anonymous No.11144165]

>>11144128
ok retard

[Anonymous No.11144307]

>>11144155
>I don't say this often but you unironically need to check your privilege.

So you are saying
"Cleanliness is next to godliness"
is now a white mans privilege?

I think caring about your neighbors as equals is also a reason for the societal differences about public trash.

Benjamin Franklin --
"The best service to God is doing good to Men."

[Anonymous No.11144492]

>>11144307
wew lad

[Anonymous No.11144534]

>>11144307
This is a science and math board, god has no place here.

[Anonymous No.11144626]

>>11144534

that's pretty islamophobic I must say

[Anonymous No.11144642]

>>11143894

>giving aide produces large families

Not even remotely true, but mainly becaise aide has been wholly ineffective at doing anything to remedy or affect poverty.

Poor people have large families, full stop. And birth control is onoy as effective as the average intelligence of their users.

We need to get the third world through industrialization as quickly as possible to minimize their population overshoot. That requires cheap energy in abundance. And to limit their effect on the environment, which is the whole reason we are discussing this, it needs to be low/zero emissions.

Telling poor people to just have less kids, regardless of aide levels, is literally putting the horse before the cart. Family planning is something wealthy countries, where children are an expensive lifestyle choice, engage in and are intelligent enough to use reliably.

[Anonymous No.11144649]

>>11144642
>Telling poor people to just have less kids
The people giving aid are also against condoms and sex education.

[Anonymous No.11144671]

>>11144649

>2019/any year
>realistically thinking that ANYONE on the ground level believes in abstinence only education or that people's lack of sex education prevents adoption

We were literally all about faith-based sex education and every sperm is sacred back when the birth control pill was introduced in 1960 and made it one of the biggest inventions of the 20th century.

You are literally insane if you think a priest is watching every couple fuck. Poor people have zero opportunity cost for children and are not smart enough to use birth control even when formally instructed and unambiguous picture directions are put on the box.

Wealth leads to female empowerment which leads to sub-replacement birthrates, even in otherwise backwards hard patriarchies like Iran.

Cutting aide is a good thing, mainly because it is an ineffective waste of money. But it will not fix the population issue.

[Anonymous No.11144684]

>>11144671
>mainly because it is an ineffective waste of money
What's a better use of the money?

[Anonymous No.11144692]

>>11144684

Build nuclear plants en masse to provide low/zero emissions energy at low prices and high availability to minimize the carbon footprint of developing economies as they rise on wealth, their women become educated, and then promptly become not interested in staying home birthing young Pajeets, Hakims, and Mkombos on a dirt floor.

[Anonymous No.11144697]

>>11144692
Aren't most developing countries in the latitudes where solar is most effective and nuclear is least because of need for water?

[Anonymous No.11144706]

>>11144697

Except intermittency is still a thing and solar takes up more land. As well 90% of the worlds population living within a few miles of water anyways.

While at the same time nuclear can be used to make water via desalination for irrigation, sterilization, and drinking. This health benefit aides in a country becoming wealthier lowering the bar for women entering the work force.

[Anonymous No.11144714]

>>11144706
Pray tell how nuclear makes water in a landlocked nation.

[Anonymous No.11144719]

>>11144714

Rivers are a thing.

[Anonymous No.11144722]

>>11144719
And so is drought.

[Anonymous No.11144723]

>>11140254
bad goy you can't ask the right questions or else you want to be considered as a racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic bigot blah blah muh identity politics

[Anonymous No.11144736]

>>11144722

And?

We stop using a source of zero emissions baseload with a >90% capacity factor because of an localized extinction level event that would displace entire villages regardless what source of energy they used?

[Anonymous No.11144740]

>>11144692
wow what a great idea anon, lets give all of Africa free access to enrich-able uranium how could this possibly backfire.
Then again when terrorists are detonating dirty bombs in first world cities across the world, emissions will go into a nosedive so long term it's actually a great plan

[Anonymous No.11144742]

>>11144736
I didn't realize droughts were extinction level events. I guess somebody should let the entire western united states know.

[Anonymous No.11144751]

>>11144642
> birth control is onoy as effective as the average intelligence of their users.
>>11144671
> not smart enough to use birth control

I disagree entirely. Modern birth control is a single pill taken once per day. Every woman can follow this one simple daily task

Refuse all aid to any African nation until that nation has a proven record of population control.

The easiest way to do population control is to offer free birth control pills to all women.

After a woman has had her second child she is told that if she has a third that the FATHER will lose all free non-emergency medical care for life.
Most African societies are Patriarchal.
If she has a fourth child then SHE will lose all free non-emergency medical care for life.

The government should offer incentives for sterilization, say $500-$1000.

The goal is to STOP the population bomb, by having small families where all the resources can be put the health and education of the children.

The thing is Africa will be responsible for almost ALL the future growth of the population of mankind for at least the next 80 years, so concentration on Africa is the correct thing to do.

[Anonymous No.11144761]

>>11144751
not going to happen because a certain (((())))) want europe to be flooded with mass dindu nuffin we wuz kangz migrants.

[Anonymous No.11144769]

>>11144761

Migration out of Africa will barely affect the population bomb.
FOUR BILLION more people (the ENTIRE WORLD population was four billion people in 1974) in the next 80 years dwarfs a few million (AT MAX) immigrants to Europe.

[Anonymous No.11144821]

>>11144769
in the best course of things i would conclude that all financial aid must be cut off and let mother nature take over.
https://www.lejournalinternational.fr/Foreign-aid-is-hurting-not-helping-Sub-Saharan-Africa_a2085.html

[Anonymous No.11144835]

>>11142675
>set to become
>up until this year
duckduckgo . com > "sustainable"
>>11141073
America can`t compete with China and India anon, do you want to work for B.King?
>>11141133
Do you know what is the I.U.D. retard?

[Anonymous No.11144837]

>>11144751

>every woman can follow that one simple task

Needs to be taken at the same time every day and refilled every so often in a country where people going to their local market or well is a major endeavor.

Also. Pills were handed out in a rural african country and a year later every woman had a child and complained the pills didn't work despite wearing the case around their necks every day, especially when having sex.

You'd be better off with IUDs.

You'd be even better off raising the wealth of the continent so the women lose interest in making babies because they finally have an opportunity cost to contend with.

Even in China during their one child policy, the poor rural farmers still had larger families because of the lack of government control over such large and less sparsely populated regions.

[Anonymous No.11144843]

>>11144821

No, we can not walk away from the problem we need to actively press for population controls NOW in Africa. If the African population bomb goes off then the world WILL experience major climate change due to humanity. We MUST make stopping the African population bomb the NUMBER ONE issue at all climate change conferences and at all environmental groups worried about global changes to the environment made by humans.

We can not hide our heads in the sand on this issue.

[Anonymous No.11144855]

>>11144837

Then give incentives to have small families, huge subsidies for families with 2 or less children, then take the subsides away when they have more.
Even poor uneducated people understand having a place they can afford to live vs. not living there if the family is too large.

We do NOT need draconian laws like China one child laws, just massive disincentives to large families and incentives to smaller ones.

Poor uneducated people are NOT stupid, they are just uneducated do not treat them or think of them as idiots.

[Anonymous No.11144864]

>>11143679
China bought the trash to recycle it and make a profit. Many Chinese millionaires were made in the recycling game.

[Anonymous No.11144905]

>>11141100

>being such a cry baby you cant be objective about the facts surrounding niggers

[Anonymous No.11144918]

>>11144855

>Poor uneducated people are NOT stupid, they are just uneducated do not treat them or think of them as idiots

Reality disagrees.

[Anonymous No.11144924]

>>11144855

The best incentive for a small family is 1.) Material wealth and 2.) Female empowerment.

Neither occurs spontaneously in poor, low IQ countries.

[Anonymous No.11144939]

>>11144924
>Neither occurs spontaneously in poor, low IQ countries.

No shit Sherlock , That is why we PUSH for the change and not wait for it to occur naturally.

We can not allow FOUR BILLION people to slowly decide to have less children as they get richer. We can give HUGE incentives for smaller families that have smarter healthier kids at the same time as we raise the standard of living.

[Anonymous No.11144953]

>>11144939

Except cutting aide and pushing contraceptives have proven ineffective.

Meanwhile, raising wealth and feminism has SLAUGHTERED birthrates. Our goal needs to get those societies to that point as quickly and low environmental impact as possible.

[Anonymous No.11144956]

>>11144918
>Reality disagrees.

OK by stupid I meant no smart enough to realize what will help vs what will hurt. My dog is stupid, my cat is stupid, the average low intellect person is not stupid in this way.

Yes there are MANY low intellectual people in Africa, BUT the good news is that we can greatly increase the average intelligence by having smaller families that have healthier children and can afford a good basic education.

Stunting is a HUGE problem in Africa but we CAN fix this with smaller families and economic incentives.

Stunting is the impaired growth and development that children experience from poor nutrition, repeated infection, and inadequate psychosocial stimulation.

https://www.who.int/nutrition/healthygrowthproj_stunted_videos/en/

[Anonymous No.11144957]

>>11140254
Hmmm, I wonder. Truly a puzzling mystery, OP.

[Anonymous No.11144976]

>>11144953
>Meanwhile, raising wealth and feminism has SLAUGHTERED birthrates.

This is what is being done NOW and it is FAILING in Africa. African families are NOT plummeting in size and they need to be.

The UN is pushing for just what you suggested and even they in their own population projects see a HUGE POPULATION BOMB coming.

We need to directly push all African governments to institute major population control measures NOW! Not 20 years from now, not 10 years, not even next year but NOW!

The ONLY incentive that works with African nations is MONEY, so we need to refuse than ANY aid (except free contraceptives and aid for paying for voluntary sterilizations) until they have a proven record of population control.

[Anonymous No.11144982]

>>11144956

Except IQ doesn't increase when moved into higher socioeconomic status families AND african americans have an IQ in between subsaharans and whites, almost as if it is genetic and the majority of african americans have partial white ancestry.

And improving IQ needs to hurt, so we need to push them to develop economically in order to get them over the hump as quickly as possible.

[Anonymous No.11144984]

>>11144976

Pushing from the outside DOESN'T WORK.

Poor people have no surplus to support feminism, and low development countries do not facilitate women entering the workforce.

So we need them to develop wealth as a nation FIRST intrinsically to get them there.

[Anonymous No.11145013]

>>11144982
>Except IQ doesn't increase when moved into higher socioeconomic status families
False.

>And improving IQ needs to hurt
Why? Sounds like you just want to live out your sadistic fantasies.

[Anonymous No.11145021]

>>11144984
>Poor people have no surplus to support feminism, and low development countries do not facilitate women entering the workforce.

You do not need feminism to have smaller families. Stop pushing YOUR social engineering on others.

I do NOT want to destroy any African social structures I just want the African males and females to see that having smaller families will economically aid them FAR more than large families. With proper incentives and birth control they CAN have smaller families and spend all of their energies on just a few children instead of a buss full.

[Anonymous No.11145049]

>>11144984
>Pushing from the outside DOESN'T WORK.
This is true when you are pushing social engineering on others, you push over and over again for FEMINISM. You want to CHANGE their social structure to match YOUR ideology.
THIS is why your aid fails over and over again, you are telling people that THEY must change their very social structures.
I do not need them to change their social structures I just want to incentivize them to have smaller families. If a couple insist on having 14 children then OK. But they should then see that they are MUCH poorer than those around them that had smaller families and got all the aid from first world nations.

[Anonymous No.11145051]

The science behind global warming is speculative and incomplete, meaning no concrete conclusions can be drawn regarding human involvement in climate change.

Elites in various fields use either real or artificial crises to maintain the existing social order, misusing the “science” behind global warming.

As a result of potential conflicts of interest, the scientists conducting research on topics related to global warming may subtly change their findings to bring them in line with their funding sources. Since climatology can not incorporate double-blind studies, as are routine in other sciences, and climate scientists set experiment parameters, perform experiments within the parameters they have set, and analyze the resulting data, a phenomenon known as “bias” is offered as the most benign reason for climate science being so inaccurate.

A key concept, delivered from the eccentric Professor Hoffman, suggests, in Hoffman’s words, the existence of a “politico-legal-media” complex, comparable to the “military-industrial complex,” of the Cold War era. Hoffman insists climate science began using more extreme, fear-inducing terms such as “crisis,” “catastrophe,” and, “disaster,” shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall, in order to maintain a level of fear in citizens, for the purpose of social control, since the specter of Soviet Communism was gone. This “state of fear” gives the book its title.

[Anonymous No.11145055]

>>11145049

[Anonymous No.11145076]

>>11145021

It's not social engineering. It's the natural development we see from gynocentric society achieving enough wealth to support the endeavor.

We are already seeing this in developing countries like India, where the population increase is starting to plateau as they reach first world living conditions and can support women's rights.

I'm just advocating for low emissions methods to expedite and encourage it.

[Anonymous No.11145080]

>>11145049

I don't push anything on them except for low emissions energy to facilitate their development and minimize their impact on the environment.

The rest is letting nature take its course as we've seen in the east and west.

[Anonymous No.11145081]

>>11145055

[Anonymous No.11145084]

>>11145055

I agree. Point out the "Elephant in the room" (African population bomb) and every calls you a racist.
All THEIR solutions amount to replicating western societies/culture everywhere on the planet.
They refuse to see the real number one problem and when they do their only solution is to stick to their ridged political/social/cultural ideology they THEY and THEY alone are the one true way for all mankind to live.

[Anonymous No.11145102]

>>11145080
>I don't push anything on them except for low emissions energy to facilitate their development and minimize their impact on the environment.

How many times do I have to explain that this is NOT enough. Even if every African has HALF the emissions of the average first word person the population bomb of 4 billion people will more than replace all the emissions cut everywhere else on the planet.
The extra four billion people in 80 years will be so much that emissions will INCREASE instead of decrease even with the FULL PARIS ACCORD on every other nation on the planet.

The African population bomb IS the number one problem to solve if you want to decrease man made emissions in the next 80 years.

Giving Africans all the super high tech emissions technology will not be enough, the African population bomb will overwhelm even the best technology.

[Anonymous No.11145106]

>>11145084

Feminism will come. Even asian women and eastern europeans want to come to the west and achieve it rsther than stay in an impoverished shit hole.

And because society has always and will continue to cater to female needs, because gynocentrism, they WILL get it once their home country achieves a level of wealth and prosperity to support it.

So we know what the end state is. Fe ake empowerment in a wealthy country. All that's left is helping those poor countries get there as quickly as they can to limit their population overshoot with low emissions energy to limit their co2 output.

[Anonymous No.11145120]

>>11145102

Which is the second half. Getting them to a wealthy, low birth rate state as quickly as we can.

If we let them take the slow route, we'll have multiple generations of larger families that will slowly taper off as they become wealthier.

Getting them to rapidly advance through that limits the number of generstions it takes to get there.

ANYTHING that limits their economic development will only increase in the total number of poor africans there will be.

[Anonymous No.11145142]

>>11145106
>Feminism will come.

I am sure you would rather the entire planet fail then ever deviate form your ideology, it is inconceivable to you that any woman would CHOOSE to live in a culture that does not have abortions on demand with NO input by the father of the child in ANY WAY, with FULL societal acceptance of single motherhood as an acceptable family unit and massive governmental financial aid to support this "family", with all children taught that sexuality and gender are on a spectrum and you can be a girl with a penis.
You may be shocked but MOST women reject this version of feminism that feel is the ONE TRUE WAY!

[Anonymous No.11145145]

>>11145142
You may be shocked but MOST women reject this version of feminism that YOU feel is the ONE TRUE WAY!

[Anonymous No.11145157]

>>11145102
>The African population bomb IS the number one problem to solve if you want to decrease man made emissions in the next 80 years.
Okay. We get it. You want to kill niggers and not pay an extra dollar per gallon at the pumps.
>Giving Africans all the super high tech emissions technology will not be enough, the African population bomb will overwhelm even the best technology.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/06/22/the-un-revises-down-its-population-forecasts
https://te.tbr.fun/demography-%C2%B7-the-un-revises-down-its-population-forecasts/

[Anonymous No.11145163]

>>11145142

>wealthy societies in both the east and west display gynocentrism and allow women's rights which causes low birth rates
>even late delayed countries like India and Iran show this
>opium growth in afgahnistan raised crop prices, increased wealth, and caused some increases in female rights to exist in the FATA despite a repressive culture
>thinking hypergamy is not an evolved instinct in women
>advocating for magic sky bullshit to fix overpopulation not realizing the inderlying mechanic that is causing it

You are just a racist. Don't even have the intelllectual curiosity to be a race realist.

[Anonymous No.11145175]

>>11145145

They claim to reject it.

But none will give up their rights or special status once they get it.

[Anonymous No.11145188]

>>11145157
>You want to kill niggers and not pay an extra dollar per gallon at the pumps.

Not at ALL, I suggest giving first world aid to African nations on the condition that the nations demonstrate a proven record of population control. Not a single killing.

I live in the EVIL USA which has become the worlds number one producer of oil at the same time as it has DECREASED Co2 emissions.
Gas is NOT going to go up by a dollar per gallon, because here gas is cheap :-)

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-and-other-greenhouse-gas-emissions

[Anonymous No.11145199]

>>11145188

How do you propose getting poor people reduce family size considering that poor people have zero incentive to do so and that wellfare spending entrenches poverty?

[Anonymous No.11145214]

>>11145163

You missed a key point modern westerner feminism goes too far and leads to population DECREASE. Women in modern industrialized nations do not have ENOUGH children.
Japan is dying as are almost every other advanced nation. USA is an exception beacuse it is the number one importer of immigrants.

We need to moderate feminism.
1. abortions are a COUPLES right not just a woman's right, she does NOT get sole authority
2. a two parent family is to be preferred over a one parent family and governmental aid should go to allowing women the financial choice to stay home and be mothers
3. there are ONLY two sexes, males and females any others are aberrations and should be treated as such.

[Anonymous No.11145217]

>>11145199

one child policy like in china, forced abortion if people disobey

[Anonymous No.11145224]

>>11145217

Which again, was only enforced among relatively wealthy urbanites while impoverished farmers in rural areas were left to themselves.

And in turn made China the most populated country on Earth despite it.

[Anonymous No.11145230]

>>11145199
>oor people have zero incentive to do so and that wellfare spending entrenches poverty?

You are speaking about modern industrialized nations right?
Why?
We should be talking about African nations.
We need to incentives small families by offering more financial aid to the smaller families than the larger ones and we need to help eliminate poverty by educating the children and helping poor African nations build GOOD infrastructures.
Roads in Africa suck ass, and the power grid needs major work, and the sanitation,, and...

[Anonymous No.11145232]

>>11145214
>You missed a key point modern westerner feminism goes too far and leads to population DECREASE.
No, that's neoliberalism.

[Anonymous No.11145233]

>>11145214

>financial aid to stay home and be mothers

Which has never actually been seen. Wellfare to women only incentivizes single motherhood which entrenches poverty.

Every single method amd intention you list has been tried and failed at great cost. Get on yhe winning team with a successful track record everywhere it is tried.

[Anonymous No.11145239]

>>11145188
>I live in the EVIL USA which has become the worlds number one producer of oil at the same time as it has DECREASED Co2 emissions.
That's pretty easy to do when you export all of your heavy industry to China

[Anonymous No.11145241]

>>11145217
>one child policy like in china, forced abortion if people disobey

This was EVIL and a mistake.
They went WAY too far, they should have had a TWO child policy because now they are begging to have the "Great Aging" where there are NOT ENOUGH children to care for all the old people.
China is starting to grow older faster than it is getting rich.

[Anonymous No.11145248]

>>11145233
>Which has never actually been seen.

I know, nations need to PAY women to be stay at home mothers in stable two parent families.

Japan is seriously considering this now.

[Anonymous No.11145252]

>>11145239
>That's pretty easy to do when you export all of your heavy industry to China

There is no fucking making you freaks happy, EVERYTHING is the fault of White Christian Able-bodied Heterosexual Males.

[Anonymous No.11145273]

>>11145248

And it has failed where it has been tried. Germany did it. Russia did it. Japan will do it and fail like they did.

Because their women have rights.

[Anonymous No.11145281]

>>11145230

Except poor people don't have small families. Full stop.

Your strategy, for lack of a better term, relies on magic and wishes to get the ball rolling.

Economic development leading to female empowerment is the only tried and true method and the best part is that it is the inevitable, natural result of a gynocentric society becoming wealthier.

[Anonymous No.11145290]

>>11145273
>Because their women have rights.

WTF are you babbling about.

The state offers women a financial aid that allows them the choose to NOT have to return to work but to spend their time being a traditional mother. As it stands now most first world women HAVE to return to work to support the family. Because of the population deficit and because stay at home moms can spend MORE time with the kids (kids spending time at home with their mothers are less violent and do more school work) it is to a nations advantage to have stay at home moms in traditional two parent families.
NOTE the stay at home mom idea CAN also be applied to a father (stay at home Dad) who chooses to stay at home while the mother works

[Anonymous No.11145297]

>>11145290

And it doesn't work.

Europe has some of the most liberal maternity leave laws in the world and their birth rates are still on the shitter.

[Anonymous No.11145298]

>>11143679
after the deforestation of large swathes of asia
china: but hurrr we pwant sum twees

[Anonymous No.11145299]

>>11145281
>Except poor people don't have small families. Full stop.

BULL SHIT! With the right incentives (money) they will have small families. Heck just offer the father $1000 to get a vasectomy after the birth of the second child (that is a HUGE incentive to a poor family)

[Anonymous No.11145301]

>>11140254
Usually they make excuses about per-capita output ignoring growth and continued development or attempt to trivialize it with single points like >>11140271 (Y-yeah they're shit but they're meeting this one set of standards better than you...)

[Anonymous No.11145302]

>>11145297
>Europe has some of the most liberal maternity leave laws in the world and their birth rates are still on the shitter.

Have they eliminated the insame modern feminism.

1. abortions are a COUPLES right not just a woman's right, she does NOT get sole authority
2. a two parent family is to be preferred over a one parent family and governmental aid should go to allowing women the financial choice to stay home and be mothers
3. there are ONLY two sexes, males and females any others are aberrations and should be treated as such.

[Anonymous No.11145305]

>>11145299

Except none of those methods have achieved results.

Free birth control, etc, does not work.

Poor people are poor and have large poor families. Rich people have smaller ones because they finally have resources to invest in kids and more of them significantly reduces individual investment.

You can't pay a rich family to have more kids the same way you can't pay a poor family to have fewer.

[Anonymous No.11145308]

>>11145302

Try and take women's rights away. Go ahead.

[Anonymous No.11145320]

>>11145308
>Try and take women's rights away. Go ahead.

No one is taking any right away.

To create a child takes BOTH a male and female and BOTH are financially liable for raising that child. It is INSANE to say that ONLY the woman has ALL the say in abortion, it should be a COUPLES right.

The State needs to dis-insensitive single parent families in favor of two parent families. The State needs to stop being the "husband" to millions of single women families.

All this gender is a spectrum shit is seriously fucking kinds minds up, teach male has penis female has vagina, male and female create families. It is OK to mention that SOME males and females like member of their same sex and we should just accept them as they are.

[Anonymous No.11145698]

>>11140271
found the gullible liberal brainlet

trusting corrupted information and data by these countries that heavily skew what it represents itself positively when in reality its much more unsatisfactory.Don't you know that these countries are known as shitholes from a western perspective for a reason?

[Anonymous No.11145823]

>>11145698
>Don't you know that these countries are known as shitholes from a western perspective for a reason?
Wow, that's a lot of data. Good thing you compiled it and made a reasoned argument so we could all be better informed.

[Anonymous No.11145848]

>>11145823
good reading comprehension skills you got there you sure showed your limit of understanding.