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/sci/ - Science & Math


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11123142 No.11123142 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Unironically: Is math universal or a social construct?

>> No.11123161
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11123161

>>11123142
>Unironically: Is math universal or a social construct?

>> No.11123178

applied math is universal, everything else is obsessive autistic puzzles

>> No.11123180

>>11123142
Math is universal. Things like race are a social construct.

>> No.11123184
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11123184

>>11123180
but what is the theoretical difference between race and math?

>> No.11123188

>>11123142
there is a sameness between | | and • •, a sameness betweeen ### and @@@, and a difference between the first superset and second, a difference thats defined by being quantifiable, a difference thats different from the difference between ## and ####.

So we symbolize these apparent and obvious differences, label them numbers, and get on. 1+1=2.

but what if 1 were a bucket of water, and 1 were another bucket. pour one into another and you still have one bucket of water, volume being an irrelevant quantity here.

so is math a social construct? no, it exists. but the axiomatic systems we chose to focus on certainly depend on whats most common, consistent, and useful in the animal world.

>> No.11123197

>>11123142
Math is a tool we developed to solve practical problems. Some people find math so interesting that they study it on its own right. The logical relations between theorems arise naturally, but the symbolic schema that is "math" is a construct.

>> No.11123283

>>11123142
Something can be both.

>> No.11123286

>>11123142
Math is such a large field, you cannot have a direct answer, black and white answer. >>11123197
Your reply is quality anon. Please continue to exist <3

>> No.11123293 [DELETED] 

>>11123286
that was very sweet of you :3
i fully expected some autist to get butt-enraged by it

>> No.11123296

>>11123142
maths is *the* universal

>> No.11123308

>>11123184
An alien race could derive at math independently of humans. While race as we use it would be very arbitrary for them without understanding our social situation. They could as easily say that blond people is a race as going by skin colour.

>> No.11123319 [DELETED] 

>>11123184
>comparing finding social contructs is like playing minesweeper
Is this suggesting that SJW are logical?

>> No.11123324
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11123324

>>11123142
Society: The aggregate of people living together in a more or less ordered community.

Mathematics: The analysis & order of operations applicable to a collection of objects/elements.

Society therefor is what you get because of mathematics.

>+1

>> No.11123329
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11123329

>>11123286
If math is too large a field to receive a direct answer, or to ever know your initial starting point and vector initialization unless someone else tells you it, then isn't it just a free-for-all language buffer for those that 'really' don't like how everyone else treats infinity?

>> No.11123356

>>11123142
this pic is cringe

>> No.11123359
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11123359

>>11123142
Fixed for accuracy.

>> No.11123468

>>11123308
You're retarded

>> No.11123492
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11123492

>>11123142
PhilosophyChad here. Math is not real.
ur welcome.

>> No.11123943

>>11123142
Math is both a social construct and a quantitative representation of the universe. Due to differences in language math may present itself with different words but functionally they are attempting to verbalize actual values that are observable.

>> No.11123954

IMO math is something that we developed to explain the observations of the outside world. It was not there from the beginning, Sure 1 space rock + another space rock = two space rocks but mathematics is just a system we use to explain these observations of how the physical world interacts.

>> No.11123961
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11123961

>>11123943
>>11123954
All reduces to {Lang, N}

>> No.11123998
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11123998

>>11123359
fixed for insight

>> No.11124024

>>11123998
/his/ and /lit are the some of the stupidest boards on the site, it's entirely pseuds
at least some on /sci/ actually went to college

>> No.11124031
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11124031

Math is not a social construct.

>> No.11124035

>>11123142
The nature blessed everything with math. Universe laws and etc, animals can make high level math calculus instinctively.

>> No.11124038

Universal construct. Math is a way to make sense of our perception.

>> No.11124065
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11124065

>>11123998
>>11123359
/medgen/ crossover

>> No.11124078
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11124078

That's a doozy.

>> No.11124082
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11124082

>>11123998
fixed to better model reality.

>> No.11124119

>>11124065
i dated a schizophrenic girl once and she was always jealous of my intellect. she always thought i was condescending towards her even though i wasn't.

t. on the spectrum

>> No.11124804

>>11124082
>/g/

>> No.11124818

>>11124024
This. /lit/ likes to think of themselves as the smartest board, but literally the opposite is true.

>> No.11124844

>>11123180
>Things like race are a social construct
Ah yes, the delusional mathrat who denies scientific evidence when it suits him.

>> No.11124845

>>11123161
Based but Portman is MY waifu

>> No.11124852

>>11123293
>>11123286
Fuck off with your faggotry somewhere else (*eddit)
But yes you are right

>> No.11124864

>>11123142
well OP if you're like one of those faggots who think that 1+1 equals 11 or 3 and other retarded answers, no it isn't
>>11123359
top kek

>> No.11125100

>>11123142
Both and neither. It's a universal of culture. The term "social construct" is just a meaningless political dog-whistle.

>> No.11125128

>>11123180
>genetics is a social construct

>> No.11125254

>>11123188
>so is math a social construct? no, it exists. but the axiomatic systems we chose
fucked yourself up right there

>> No.11125260

>>11124082
>implying /r9k/ and /fit/ are happy

>> No.11125270

>>11125128
not the anon you're responding to but the categorization of different specimens is a blatant human practice that is arbitrary at it's core, not to say that it's unfounded but it doesn't work on pure logic

>> No.11125405

>>11123468
Tell me why I'm wrong then.

>> No.11125656

>>11125270
ok boomer

>> No.11125774

>>11123142
Math itself is a social construct, those phenomena which math describes are not, thus it becomes technically universal by correct math being forced to conform to things which are not subjectively determined.

>> No.11125836

>>11123142
Yes

>> No.11127255 [DELETED] 

Mathematical axioms are predicated on law of middle exclusion, identity and non-contradiction which aren't fundamental. Holes, shadows, nothingness and other non-existent objects break the classical orthodoxy of what can be considered true. paraconsistant logic is a thing as well as fuzzy logic. We can't even ever know for sure if rationality is ultimately true because there's no alternative method of evaluation which is why epistemologists go oh shit i guess it's circular but the good kind of circular which doesn't need to be justified inferentially. All well and good until the critique of reason is justified by reason itself. Almost like you can justify anything if your foundation is circular. idk what to think anymore.

>> No.11127313

>>11125774
Economy is real. Statistics are not.

>> No.11127334

>>11123142
Aren't you confusing things that are taught using language and social constructs though?

>> No.11127475

>>11123142
Math is a tool that helps us understand the universe. It is neither universal nor a social construct, but a construct or lens through which can view things and make sense of it.

>> No.11127486

>>11127334
You are taught using predicate trust bind operators and successor functions. The language ultimately decompiles itself and dereferences the source in order to establish a dominant position.

>> No.11127590

>>11127334
No, math is a social language to describe our universal surroundings

>> No.11128028
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11128028

>>11127590
"Gods language" or "cosmic language"
Fuck off with your weak wording

>> No.11128033
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11128033

>>11127475
>It is neither universal
Spotted the brainlet

>> No.11128038
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11128038

>>11125656

>> No.11128044
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11128044

>>11124119
try dating an autistic schizophrenic LOL

>> No.11128207

Universal. And God keeps for himself the most elegant proofs in a Book.

>> No.11129147

>>11123998
/b/ is literally just porn these days.

>> No.11129681

>>11129147
Every so often there's a retard who will break one of his fingers if you get trips.

>> No.11129959

>>11124082
This is more accurate. I'm loath to even lurk /pol/ anymore. That board is incredibly saturated with brainlets now.

>> No.11130036

>>11128033
???

>> No.11130070

Our math only makes sense in our universe. Different universe operate by different rules.

>> No.11131149

>>11123142
Social construct designed to study universal truths.

>> No.11131761

>>11123142
>Math is universal
>Numbers is a social construct

>> No.11133162

>>11123359
Can confirm. I am only attracted to intellectual pursuits, but I am too dumb to do well or contribute whatsoever there, so i am sad.

>> No.11133415

>>11123142
It's a socially constructed way to investigate facts about nature.
It is socially constructed at several levels.
The language is socially constructed. The notion of proof has also evolved quite a bit over time. The problems which are deemed interesting are also subject to fads: for some reason, everyone was all about incidence geometry and general topology in the 40s and 50s and now these fields have literally died out. Probability theory was considered non-mathematics by French mathematicians of the time and now it is becoming increasingly fashionable.
In other words, once a framework is fixed, mathematical facts are universal, but the mathematical framework and community, just like any community of humans, is subject to social dynamics and evolves with time.

>> No.11133432

>>11123492
And there was light once a gain...

Maybe those dimmable lightbulbs was better.

>>11123142
Term universal is social construct.

>> No.11133480

>>11123188
>but what if 1 were a bucket of water, and 1 were another bucket. pour one into another and you still have one bucket of water, volume being an irrelevant quantity here.
But you just said you get one 'bucket of water' from one 'bucket of water' and one 'bucket'. No shit, you only started with one 'bucket of water'.
You just said it yourself, the volume of water is irrelevant.

>> No.11133491

>>11128044
>Knows absolutely that they're right about something, but can't identify what it is
The average poster

>> No.11133519
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11133519

>>11123142
Math Platonist here!

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