Why is Biology so poorly respected in the scientific community? Its because is seen as too easy compared to Physics or Chemistry? Because it has less math?

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Anonymous Tue Oct 8 07:07:43 2019 No.11041790 [Reply] [Original]

Why is Biology so poorly respected in the scientific community? Its because is seen as too easy compared to Physics or Chemistry? Because it has less math?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 07:12:30 2019 No.11041798 not an exact science (that's a technical term; subset of hard sciences)

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 07:40:19 2019 No.11041842 >>11041790 Biology is a meme degree. The only way you can get anywhere with it is if you go to grad or medical school. At least with Physics you can get an engineering job or something.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 07:54:57 2019 No.11041864 >>11041790 Biology is entertaining and sometimes funny but it's nowhere near as abstract or cognitively challenging as maths or physics. The irony is that the greatest biologists in history (Fisher and Pasteur) were chemists and physicists.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:11:59 2019 No.11042717 >>11041864 >it's nowhere near as abstract or cognitively challenging as maths or physics. So what stops physicists from solving Biology biggest problems?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:13:42 2019 No.11042723 My grandpa's a pretty significant biophysicist. He helped figure out the structure of DNA. I get the feeling he looks down on larger-scale biologists

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:15:57 2019 No.11042727 >>11042717 they dont care.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:19:55 2019 No.11042734 >>11041790 because it is just route memory, biology is largely indistinguishable from a more rigorous art. very little critical and abstract thinking involved. most biofags also can't do math and barely passed calc and stats.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:21:08 2019 No.11042735 >>11042727 >they dont care. Lmao that's cope and you know it

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:22:09 2019 No.11042739 >>11042723 did this grandpa say naughty things and get the world butthurt at him?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:29:44 2019 No.11042763 >>11042735 biologists recently discovered what an integral is. that post was very much not cope

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:36:35 2019 No.11042776 >>11042763 and they're not good at it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:41:57 2019 No.11042784 >>11042727 The origin of life seems like a big deal that any scientist would like to solve.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:46:39 2019 No.11042790 >>11042776 At least they have sex

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:49:23 2019 No.11042798 >>11041790 Biology and, to a lesser extent, chem/physics are just basically materialist philosophy gone wild and the only reliability any of them gets is from mathematics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 15:57:09 2019 No.11042813 >>11041864 >Computational biology doesn't exist

Anonymous Tue Oct 8 16:00:35 2019 No.11042820

>>11042784
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_field_theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoscopic_physics
Between mean field theory, physical statistics, condense matter physics,quantum field theory and more begin origin of life, a lot new tech and inmortal life, genetics edition.

But physics, muh next einstein, muh string theory, muh theory of everything, muon particles elementary, muh nuclear fusion, muh prize nobel physics in ultra experimental, astrophysics or theorical physics or becomes software developer or quants/finance.

Biophysics need massive taskforce physics but physics prefer autism topics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 16:01:43 2019 No.11042823 >>11042739 No, but his colleague backstabbed him and got a nobel prize for my grandpa's work

Anonymous Tue Oct 8 16:47:34 2019 No.11042913

Let's imagine tomorrow we wake up and suddenly all biologists disappear from earth
>no agronomists, ichthyologist (the ones who work with fish), veterinarians etc so food production all across the board plummets, malthusian catastrophe ensues
>no microbiologists so no one to do quality control of production in industries such as dairy products, meat, fruits and vegetables so enjoy your fungal, bacterial, protozoan and parasitic worm infection outbreaks.
>no geneticians so no recombinant DNA technology applications (insuline production for diabetics - KILL, blood clotting factor production for haemophilia - KILL, some vaccines like hepatitis - DONE, plague-resistant crops - DONE). Not to mention gene-related diseases.
>no biochemists and cytologists so no more research in pharmacokinetics, protein structure and expression, membrane proteins, stem cells, signal transduction pathways (say goodbye to any hope of dealing with cancer with anything other than chemo)
>no micologists, botanics, zoologists, ecologists so chances are people will do something stupid, decimate their immediate environment and not even understand how or why (like bringing invasive species in or failing at plague control) (don't get me started with the stories of people building roads, hydroelectric power plants, farms without proper knowledge of animal (and by extention plant seeds and fungi) migration routes thus cutting off the base of the trophic chain and generating an ecological catastrophe).
>also good luck dealing with climate change
>no behavioural biologists and neurobiologists so you're stuck with psychologists and charlatans forever
This is is just from the top of my head

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 21:30:46 2019 No.11043527 >>11042913 None of those are biologists

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 21:50:21 2019 No.11043566 >>11042823 I feel like everyone has a relative that claims they were screwed out of a nobel prize

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 22:01:37 2019 No.11043603 >>11041790 >too easy If you have a mess of cells and proteins doing all sorts of things that's an effectively impossible problem in physics/chemistry.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 22:18:13 2019 No.11043662 >>11043566 If they are not in the tribe, it is likely, look at the history of entainss ideas

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 22:26:16 2019 No.11043686 >>11042913 all you just mentioned is the domain of everything except biology

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 22:26:53 2019 No.11043687 >>11041790 I unload trucks for a living(no degree) I work with 3 guys with biology degrees....they unload trucks too

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 8 23:25:42 2019 No.11043776 >>11043527 >microbiologists, geneticists, botanists, zoologists, behavioral biologists, ecologists, and neurologists aren't biologists So nuclear physicists aren't physicists and organic chemists aren't chemists?

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 00:23:03 2019 No.11043882

>>11041790
I really enjoy Biology, however, my troubles with it consist of the the fact that the majority of studying Biology is cognitive recognition, there are few skills to learn. The majority of problems you encounter cannot be solved with math or any skill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 00:24:20 2019 No.11043887 File: 28 KB, 800x800, bio.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11041790

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 01:24:30 2019 No.11043969 >>11043527 >>11043686 top kek based retards, they're subfields of biology, although some of the fields are either interdisciplinary or applied

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 01:35:05 2019 No.11043986 >>11042913 Would take like 10 years to recover the lost knowledge, maybe less

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 01:37:19 2019 No.11043991 >>11043986 and, after recovering that knowledge, who exactly would compile, advance, and apply that knowledge? physicists? chemists? mathematicians?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 01:49:10 2019 No.11044006 >>11041790 >Why is Biology so poorly respected in the scientific community? I don't think it is. It's poorly respected by people wanking each other off on the internet, but the scientific community seems fine with it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 02:21:16 2019 No.11044043 >>11043991 average office clerk would just do as fine

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 03:07:47 2019 No.11044096 >>11041790 Biology is highly regarded

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 03:08:38 2019 No.11044097

>>11044043
>implying some average cubicle slave has the same level of training as a researcher or medical professional
While it IS possible that some clerk can handle filing, data entry, and whatnot, there's a reason why biology research, or research in any field, typically requires an extra 4-6 yrs grad school. Same with vet school or med school. And that's not counting postdoc or fellowships.

Biology is an excessively broad field. >>11042913 pretty much shows how broad biology is. On top of that, each subfield of biology is still backed by a comprehensive depth of research.

I find it hard to believe some
>average office clerk
would be able productively and cohesively compile the research body of ONE biological subfield, let alone integrate it with every other subfield. And if they did have the required specialist knowledge, then they wouldn't be some average clerk.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 03:09:10 2019 No.11044099 >>11042727 More like they can't reduce real biological problems to simple models.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 03:47:25 2019 No.11044141 At least you aren't a psychologist and pretending that what you do is science.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 03:51:08 2019 No.11044146 >>11043566 I'm pretty sure his claim's legit. I keep seeing his name on big textbooks

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 03:51:42 2019 No.11044148 >>11044097 cope

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 03:55:24 2019 No.11044156 >>11042723 It took chemist to discover DNA structure with XRD. Bio"log"ists BTFO!

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 11:21:10 2019 No.11044687 >>11043662 >Look into the [/pol/ talking point #23748] How to spot a clueless mind-blanked drone in single post.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 15:08:51 2019 No.11045266 What about compbio/systems bio? Please approve of my life choices

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 15:10:11 2019 No.11045270 >>11042717 Biology is harder to break up in small, quantifiable parts that physics

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 15:11:03 2019 No.11045274 >>11041790 you use the internet too much >>11045266 have sex

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 15:12:45 2019 No.11045281 >>11042913 Cope harder brainlet. Physics and pure math are the only subjects that require high iq. Anything else a chimp can do

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 15:13:48 2019 No.11045283

>>11043887
Chemistry isn’t mathematically rigorous, its not even rooted in accurate physical models.
>>11045266
Systems bio is one of the least useful fields in the life sciences, comp bio is an interdisciplinary field that supports biological research and farms information for CS its not strictly biology and much of the modeling done is very inaccurate.
>>11042727
They do care quite a lot, that’s why biophysics exists.

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 15:49:38 2019 No.11045359
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>>11042820

>Be one of the few people genetically blessed enough to have an IQ capable of tackling problems at an intense level of abstraction

>Work your ass off to be one of the <0.01% of that group with the qualifications and tenure necessary to actually tackle them

>Don't take the opportunity, instead work on brainlet problems from ~115IQ fielde because the smoothbrains therein can't figure anything out on their own and called your superior abstractions autistic

???

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 16:19:11 2019 No.11045448 You can read a book and learn biology quite easily. You can't read a Physics textbook and do the same.

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 16:24:46 2019 No.11045460

>>11045448
>You can read a book and learn biology quite easily
That seems incompatible with the observed behaviors of most people with regard to their understanding of other simple phenomena like the mechanics of personal finance, navigating parking lots and remembering grocery lists but if you can explain how these are unrelated I would be convinced that you are not lying.

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 17:10:04 2019 No.11045549

Probably because of how many women choose it. Truth is biology has done a damn lot in the past century for humanity and will likely do more. It's also one of the more popular science fields so it's over saturated and you don't make big bucks unless you go into medical. Not to mention there's less consistency in results and classification because life is constantly evolving.

I still think of it as a solid field worth studying. Just a lot of stem students like to get into pissing contests over who's got the harder major and someone has to come in last. Might as well be the major with all the bitches and flash card memorizing assholes. But after your 4 years at uni you grow out of that bs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 18:17:35 2019 No.11045694 >>11042913 no, big brain physicists/chemists would just fill the void before anyone else even wakes up and no one would notice all biologist disappeared

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 20:15:30 2019 No.11045893

>>11043882
Most of Biology is more about empirical experimentation, so you can be a brainlet in math (not always tho, some areas require a lot of math) and abstract thinking and still be considered a competent biologist. Evolutionary biology, molecular biology and systems biology are the fields that require more brain

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 20:20:19 2019 No.11045904 >>11045893 systems biology (not systematics) is pseudoscience faggotry

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 22:59:09 2019 No.11046238 >>11045904 What makes you say this? Control theory is pretty well established and its applications in biology are quite interesting.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 22:59:22 2019 No.11046240 >>11042717 unironically money, you need far more infrastructure to make progress in, for example, medicine than it would take to get that one autist to prove fermat's last theorem or whathever else.

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 23:04:56 2019 No.11046251

>>11046238
they have produced nothing of value to biology proper that improves upon the models found in physiology, mol bio, genetics and evolutionary theory. it is a circle jerk that poisons the study of living systems with ill defined ideas and is really a covert means of using biological data and models to test/build models for other fields/industries. the same can be said of many interdisciplinary fields where one field is really using the others for data/structure for their models to be applied elsewhere leaving no increase in understanding or predictive power.
>>11046240
It was a stupid hypothetical to begin with; biological research is varied in character and scope depending on the accessibility of the system being studied and the technology available for experimentation. You could conceivably reconstruct quantitative genetics with absolutely minimal technological capabilities if you retained a strong understanding of mathematics but molecular biology would be probably be far more difficult,

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 23:24:46 2019 No.11046298 >>11043887 >chemistry >mathematically rigorous Gee I wonder who made this image

Anonymous Wed Oct 9 23:26:56 2019 No.11046303

>>11046251
>the same can be said of many interdisciplinary fields where one field is really using the others for data/structure for their models to be applied elsewhere leaving no increase in understanding or predictive power.

This sounds plausible desu

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 23:30:12 2019 No.11046308 I don't think year 1 college students constitute the scientific community

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 23:37:57 2019 No.11046328 >>11045283 >chemistry isn't mathematically rigorous, its not even rooted in accurate physical models we have a devision that's literally dedicated to accurately modeling the physics of chemistry, its call physical chemistry

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 9 23:41:34 2019 No.11046337 >>11045694 This is literally my PI, he just post docked in immunology and now the lab does bio research

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 10 00:24:52 2019 No.11046398 >>11046328 subcategories of biology exist as well, like biophysics. what's your point?

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 10 00:30:31 2019 No.11046402 >>11041790 ? Darwin is one of the most famous and influential scientists in history

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 10 00:39:47 2019 No.11046407 most biology papers can't be reproduced

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 10 00:46:36 2019 No.11046412 physics/chemcucks still seething over PCR being the biggest innovation in science in the last 50 years

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 10 00:49:13 2019 No.11046417 >>11046412 >last 50 years good thing you made the cutoff there so you could escape the ridicule of the semiconductor chads

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 10 00:50:13 2019 No.11046418 File: 483 KB, 564x594, malos.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11046417 >over 50 years of getting cucked by biochads >m-muh semiconductors

>>	Anonymous Thu Oct 10 16:18:34 2019 No.11047786 >>11041798 Meaning it doesn't cater to autism

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 11 04:40:12 2019 No.11049329 >>11041798 How is it not exact?

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 11 05:01:12 2019 No.11049351 >>11041790 Biochemistry is biology

Anonymous Fri Oct 11 20:41:20 2019 No.11051252

>>11043887
I feel it. I do biology and feel lucky for having wotk. Big brain chemists next door make me scared and each day I worry what would I do if anyone marginally smarter than me started researching the same thing as I do. Mb, go into studying some bugs or smt, I bet theres little competition in bug studies

Anonymous Fri Oct 11 20:47:53 2019 No.11051268

>>11046407
that isn't even remotely true
>>11049329
very little emphasis is placed on reductive mechanistic models which means that predictive power is often quite low even if reproducible results can be found in abundance. its not as powerful a model if you can only make vague statements about the general trends of a system. genetics and physiology suffer from this less than other subfields though.
>>11051252
cuck

Anonymous Fri Oct 11 21:53:02 2019 No.11051399

any computational biologists in? i don't understand how to prove or disprove that, in a suffix tree, if there exists an edge [math]\alpha[/math], having a proper prefix [math]\beta[/math], that there can't be an internal node in the tree with path label [math]\beta[/math].

>>	Anonymous Fri Oct 11 22:16:00 2019 No.11051453 >>11051399 You should ask /g/ that, not this shithole

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 00:15:59 2019 No.11051712 >>11051453 /g/ is also a shithole.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 00:28:19 2019 No.11051744 File: 168 KB, 727x682, 827.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm planning on going into medical microbiology research. Will /sci/ and the wider scientific community respect me?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 00:39:04 2019 No.11051770 >>11051744 >biomed >micro Have fun with your replication rates desu

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 08:39:18 2019 No.11052372 >>11046407 Most maths and physics papers are fucking worthless

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 08:49:38 2019 No.11052395 >>11042735 The biggest joke is medicine because once we are able to transfer our consciousness to a machine body it will be useless.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 23:13:27 2019 No.11054049

As a side note, is it me or as the subject matters shifts to the behavior of much much complex structures (physics to chemistry to biology, neurology to psychology to sociology) it becomes harder and harder to make an accurate model and produce something as predictive as the lower level stuff, and yet it tends to attract bigger and bigger brainlets?

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:03:51 2019 No.11054349

>>11041790
>implying /sci/ is an accurate representation of the scientific community
Biotech is all the rage these days though. Mathcucks are just coping that they're never going to contribute anything innovative to industry or research, while Biochads right now are literally playing God with gene editing.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:21:08 2019 No.11054374

>>11054049
I am a biologist ,and its sad to say, but you are not wrong. Biology attracts a lot of hippies, new age dudes, "le cute doggo pupper" morons, and people rejected from medicine careers. The best way to know if a biologist is a retard is if he tends to anthropomorphize animals or doesnt know shit about evolution.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:22:43 2019 No.11054382 >>11041842 >hiring a physicist for an engineering job lmao, might as well hire the biologist

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:31:13 2019 No.11054394 >>11054374 the best way to tell if they’re retarded is asking them how much math they know

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:35:09 2019 No.11054402 >>11044096 I agree however I believe it's spelt 'retarded'.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:58:35 2019 No.11054428 >>11042734 So can a Computer do it in the near furure?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 03:17:23 2019 No.11054457 >>11042717 They do actually. I have biophysicists in my university creating artificial cells that reproduce. Essentially every mathematical advance in biology has been by a physicist

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:03:01 2019 No.11055242 >>11041790 >biochemists My disgust.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 04:06:55 2019 No.11057687 >>11054457 Sounds cool, can give more information?

Anonymous Mon Oct 14 04:10:14 2019 No.11057694

>>11051268
??
A recent paper in biochemistry I read measured the length across a specific protein and how conformational warping allows this protein to work inside the cell.

Anyone can go find this protein and measure it and test its function. You can do that by using CRISPR to deactivate it, and see what stops.

How is this not reproducible?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 04:11:48 2019 No.11057697 >>11054457 Tbqh you’re not wrong. But is biophysics biology or physics? It’s physics.

Anonymous Mon Oct 14 04:13:44 2019 No.11057700

Molecular Biology is legit, biochemistry is legit, biophysics is legit.

Integrative biology is also legit it’s just different. A lot of toxicology and animal physiology was important and is important... it’s just not trying to explain the phenomena at the level of irreducible biological phenomena.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 20:26:39 2019 No.11059897 >>11054457 Most theoretical advances in computer vision too. Physicists that by some reason can't (or won't) work on physics anymore often end up doing good work on other fields. Probably because they know math and modeling put of the wazzo

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 20:43:05 2019 No.11059937 >>11041842 A biology degree is a physical cheat code you can use to get practically any government job ever.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 20:46:26 2019 No.11059944 >>11042790 >no replies Looks like we have a winner ladies and gentlemen.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 20:54:31 2019 No.11059958 >math is hard >I know math >therefore I'm smart K

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 22:21:18 2019 No.11060189 >>11046337 He was physics beforehand? Why did he switch to immunology?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 22:22:19 2019 No.11060192 >>11059937 Pretty sure that's engineering.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 14 22:24:44 2019 No.11060197 >>11041842 Lmao mate nobody is hiring spastic physicists to do chadineers jobs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 15 06:47:36 2019 No.11061064 >>11054374 >tends to anthropomorphize animals Please give examples. At least don't tell me you're retarded enough to think that, say, animals are incapable of love.

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